The Evangelical Movement Is Filled With Evil And Demonic Lies, And Is Filled With Satanic Propaganda Against The Catholic Church

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Is it also a sin for the Pope to be a gentleman kissing the hand of a Jewish holocaust survivor?

By Walid Shoebat

Who can honestly deny that in our modern ‘civilized’ west, blaming everything on Jesuits is the most popular conspiracy theory while hating Catholics is the only accepted prejudice? While belief in the Jesuit Conspiracy has not permeated the whole culture (knock on wood), blaming everything on Jesuits is one of the most important and enduring conspiracy theories in modern western history. The problem is that such conspiracy theories do not predominately permeate secularists, but the bulk of it stems from Protestants and especially Evangelicals, Calvinists and Messianic movements including even Zionists.

Even America’s founding fathers like Abraham Lincoln and John Adams and others, believed in Jesuit conspiracies regardless that Pope Clement XIV forever abolished the Jesuit Order in 1773.

“The war [i.e., the American Civil War of 1861-1865] would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits.” (Abraham Lincoln)

Anyone dare deny what I said so far, step forward, and I will make minced meat out of your arguments.

The extent of this “Jesuit conspiracy” was only revealed to me the days I decided to debunk misconceptions  about Catholics to only solicit me more attacks from so-called fellow ‘brothers’. I became more sickened and alarmed as I perused the volume of websites that claim that Jesuits control everything from banks, the CIA, even “Hitler modeled his dreaded SS army” after “the Jesuits” to even accuse the Jesuits of “sinking  the Titanic” and even creating and training Muhammad to kickstart the very Islam that I left. So many hate messages I had to delete accusing me of being a Jesuit spy that I began to believe that the Almighty wanted me to address this issue.

Even the Antichrist, according to these anti-Jesuit loons is some sort of a combination burrito of Islam maligned with Catholicism, an impossible theory, which has no scriptural validation. While it is plausible that the Antichrist could invade Rome someday, abolish the sacraments, and take his seat in the Vatican by force, scripture clearly states this man of sin must “deny the Father and the Son” (1 John 2:22).  

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Combination Burritos, dangerous to your eternal destiny

This new Antichrist theory and others are promoted despite that a bulk of martyrs come from apostolic succession churches. These martyrs are hardly Protestant conspiracy theorists. Many Protestants also gladly proclaim them (as we have seen with 21 Copts beheaded by ISIS) as their own.

But of course, one still finds lunatics like Calvinist apologist James White who rejects the martyrdom of apostolic succession Christians to even saying the Catholics who died defending Jews in Nazi Germany can never be “saved”.

The danger is, that if conspiracy theories consumed an entire culture, the end result is an assured Fourth Reich. This is no conspiracy theory especially since that tyrannies start by the promotion of propaganda and conspiracy theories which fester to finally engulf the entire society.

Today it is not uncommon to read absurdities which say that “the Order (of Jesuits) controlled the infamous House of Rothschild since no later than the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars, after which Jesuit-led Crusade the Rothschild family was surnamed the “Guardians of the Vatikan Treasury (1830).” (Eric Jon Phelps, Vatican Assassins”, 3rd Ed., p.90.)

While not all Evangelicals adhere to conspiracy theories, Protestant scholars who don’t are usually the academic historian types or professors like Norman Geisler and Daniel B. Wallace. But these are friends of the Orthodox and the Catholic and Geisler too has his share of accusations being a ‘Jesuit spy’. All one has to do is to look up ‘Jesuit’ with ‘Norman Geisler’ and see conspiracy theories by loons about him.

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Conspiracy theorists are daily conditioned not to click on any resource that is Catholic because everything Catholic is considered by them demonic. Even when we confront them, everything bad written by Martin Luther, to them it was simply done because of Luther’s Catholic background. I could not believe the multitudes I met who were educated professionals who even taught scripture at sunday schools, yet were plagued with Jesuit conspiracy theories.

Although the Jesuit conspiracy is the most die-hard, there is an array of other conspiracies that plague these churches. I got so much flack for pointing out some outlandish blood moon predictions made by one named Jonathan Cahn and pastor John Hagee. Both predicted that because America (forget the rest of the world) has not been obedient, that on September 13, 2015 (since it is the 7th and last Shemitah Sabbath year) that it will be a year of judgment and reckoning with God Who “might” cause an economic collapse. The december 2015 blood moon, also came and gone with more blood moon catastrophes predicted only for America, yet here we are still gazing at the moon for whatever reason.

All this regardless that the book Jewish History in Conflict written by an Orthodox Jew named Mitchell First revealed that the Jewish Sages purposely stated an incorrect chronology of Daniel 9 in order to prevent people from using the passage to accurately predict the time when the Messiah would come. Regardless that the calendar denies Jesus as Messiah, Cahn and pastor John Hagee and others would still deceive millions to believe such outlandish claims. Even despite that I was correct, I was accused of being anti-Semitic by  World Net Daily since how dare I speak out against a Jew. This despite that it was a Jew (Mitchell First) who debunked the calendar Cahn and Hagee used. Me being a ‘gentile’ qualifies me not to address truth as if it is no longer “there is neither Jew nor Gentile …” or as if the gentile, Uriah the Hittite,  should have gladly given his wife Bathsheba to King David because he was a Jew and then commit suicide after that.

Conspiracy theories sell to folks with scant knowledge of history. One can easily find a disgruntled lowly admin lawyer at the World Bank like Karen Hudes who claims that the CIA’s purpose is to protect the Vatican’s 170,000 tons of gold. Many like Joel Rosenberg and Tim Lahaye even use the Bible to write fiction novels of an anti-Christ arising from the European Union or that Putin will soon invade Israel. All this, while not one of these fights the anti-Catholic stereotypes which are a long-standing feature of English literature, popular fiction, and even pornography.

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And dare you expose the errors, your Facebook gets hit with all sorts of ‘believers’ who will instantly denounce you as “unsaved” and even report you to Facebook (exactly what the homosexuals do to us) and your account is suspended for 30 days. The very new-world-order censorship, these complain about, is well exercised by this new ‘Christian’ order who complain so much of the coming censorship. They have never condemned in the past all the fiction authors who said that Mussolini, Gorbachev, Saddam Hussein, and a myriad of other persons as the “Antichrist”. This, regardless that everyone who predicted the name of the Antichrist was wrong. You will know them by their exposés of real whisle-blowers.

So how did I attract so many followers who are conspiracy theorists? For two decades I have been an Evangelical Christian with a movement that is plagued the most with conspiracy theories. In fact, I have rarely ever ran into a church that was not littered with conspiracy theories where they have read books written by modern Evangelicals with faulty history. Even the apologist ‘experts’ who dare not renounce history or Church Fathers refuse to deal with the epidemic. When Calvinist James White invited me for a debate (they love to only debate theological topics), I insisted on debating a subject that was never once debated in these protestant apologetics circles; how conspiracy theories plague top Protestant and Calvinists like John MacArthur and so many others who say that the Catholic Church murdered 50 million innocent Protestants. They quote conspiracy theorist named David A. Plaisted, a computer science professor who obtained this number from other conspiracy theorists to only trickle down to a Jehovah’s Witnesses housewife who inflated the number to 100 million and have more Protestants quote her instead of real historians. I dared James White to refute my Blood of Saints article in my response to him. James tucked tail and instantly retreated saying that my email was rude.

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Photo of James White during one of his attempted refutations of Theodore Shoebat.

Any time one stands up to vulgarities and reflects the same vulgarities back, they only accuse us of being “vulgar” and our defense of such apologists is instantly portrayed as “rudeness” and “dividing the body of Christ”. These forget that it was Calvin and Luther who did the major autopsy while sparking the greatest conspiracy theory the Protestant schism ever inherited from the Manichaean heresy saying that John the Apostle was speaking of the Catholic Church as “the Harlot of Babylon” while forgetting that apostle John’s students were the first Catholics.

None of these apologists I met even knew that Protestantism adopted such nonsense from Manichaeism and the Albigensian heretics. Most in fact, like Dave Hunt, Tim Lahaye, Chris Pinto and John MacAurthur do not even recognize that Manichaeism and the Albigensians were heretics, yet they defend them to the  death looking to find Protestant martyrs in all the wrong places. The ironic thing about all this is that the same crowds that welcomed me are now positive (and without evidence) that I was a Jesuit infiltrator while my terrorist background was completely fabricated (regardless of all the evidence).

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MacAurther (left) Lahaye (center) Hunt (right)

While they refuse to learn from history, that the schismatic Cathars were enemies of true doctrine, yet today, you find not one of these Protestant apologists address these conspiracy theories or do they especially expose the Protestant Reformation, and paricularily the English Reformation and how it brought new suspicions against the Jesuits, who were accused of infiltrating political realms in order to destroy non-Catholic Protestant churches.

And while they speak of Catholics “burning at the stake” the so-called saints, the English Reformation’s Jesuit conspiracy theorists instituted the death penalty in Protestant England forbidding anyone to belong to the Jesuits under the penalty of being hanged, drawn and quartered.

They rarely if ever even look at the long list of Catholic martyrs of the English Reformation executed under treason legislation in the years of the English Reformation between 1534 and 1680 CE. Yet, these very truth-seekers are quick to quote a 1689 work, Foxes and Firebrands by Robert Ware (later exposed as a forger), claimed Jesuits took a secret oath that stated:

I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infantsheads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race.

This quote can easily be searched to see how it is still being used, yet no one can find any historian to confirm Jesuits were ‘hanging’ ‘burning’ ‘wasting’ ‘boiling’ ‘flaying’ ‘strangling’ or ‘burying alive’ any of these Protestants who were accused of being ‘infamous heretics’.

One could imagine a Protestant claiming that Jews butcher Christian children and mix their blood with communion bread? Imagine the type of backlash this will get. But not so when it comes to Jesuits. From Muslim to Protestant, one can see where this is heading: the persecution of apostolic succession churches. One can easily see the world today and count where are the martyrs primarily coming from, and it is not from the Evangelical circles. Yet Evangelicals would not hesitate claiming the Copts as martyrs while ignoring they damn the Copt’s theology, while forgetting it was Saint Mark the Apostle who started that church in Egypt.

History is the greatest weapon in the hands of apostolic-sucsession churches. While history completely debunked all these conspiracy theories, fact is that truth is not the issue here, no matter how many times it destroys the lie; the real issue is the issue of effective propaganda that is sold daily to the masses by major Evangelical publications.

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If Jesuits are behind the rise of Hitler and the alleged Holocaust of 6 million Jews, why then would the  Nazis propagate Jesuit conspiracy theories themselves? Hubert Hermann’s The Jesuit: The Obscurantist without a Homeland Propaganda Pamphlet (1933) inspired the Nazis to declare the Catholic order of the Jesuits “public vermin” (Volksschädlingen) – the same term it used to describe the Freemasons. Its members were persecuted, interned, and sometimes murdered. This pamphlet warned against the Jesuits’ “dark power” and “mysterious intentions.” Hitler murdered Jesuits on account of Jesuit membership.

While persecutions of Jews did happen by mobs throughout the middle ages, the other fact that is rarely revealed was that throughout that same history, the Catholics Papal bull Sicut Judaeis issued during the Middle Ages was the cornerstone that proclaimed Jews are not to be harmed and that Catholics are forbidden on pain of excommunication to force convert Jews or confiscate their property. This was clearly established by Pope Callixtus II in the original bull:

“[The Jews] ought to suffer no prejudice. We, out of the meekness of Christian piety, and in keeping in the footprints or Our predecessors of happy memory, the Roman Pontiffs Calixtus, Eugene, Alexander, Clement, admit their petition, and We grant them the buckler of Our protection.”

It was the Popes who foresaw the potential for pogroms while 18 successive Popes re-affirmed Sicut Judaeis.

I challenge anyone to find anywhere any official document where the Catholic Church endorsed Nazism. Catholic opposition to Judaism has always been ideological, never racial.

Yet despite all this, perhaps the most attacked in history is against Pope Pius XII. The more we discover from the annals of history, the more we find archives like what was revealed by Historian Mark Riebling who wrote of Pope Pius XII’s secret to support attempted overthrows of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler.

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Wow, a photo of a Catholic cardinal with Hitler

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Secret photo of Jesus meeting with Lucifer in the Temptation should render Christ as a secret Jesuit who made a pact with the devil

The historian described these actions as “some of the most astonishing events in the history of the papacy.”

And just as Christ cast away the devil, Pius XII had connections with three plots against Hitler. The first, from October 1939 to May 1940, involved German military conspirators. From late 1941 to spring of 1943 a series of plots involving the German Jesuits ended when a bomb planted on Hitler’s plane failed to explode.

The third plot again involved German Jesuits and also German military colonel Claus von Stauffenberg. Although the colonel successfully planted a bomb near the Nazi dictator, it failed to kill Hitler. The priests had to flee after the failed attempt. Those unable to escape were executed.

The plot to kill Hitler clears much of the late 1990s, debate over whether Pius XII did enough to counter the Nazis reached a high point with the publication of the deeply controversial book, “Hitler’s Pope,” by British journalist John Cornwell.

The book was highly critical of Pius XII, charging that he was culpably silent – if not an accomplice – in the rise of Nazism. It is the sort of thing that if one condemns Jesus of His own crucifixion because He was silent in front of Herod.

“There were at least ten documents implicating Pius XII and his closest advisers in not just one, but actually three plots to remove Hitler – stretching from 1939 to 1944. These were typed up by someone using a very distinct nickname.”

The plot was carried out by Ray Rocca. Rocca served as Angleton’s deputy in Rome and for most of his later career.

“Pius becomes a key cog in conspiracies to remove a ruler who is a kind of Antichrist, because good people ask for his help, and he searches his conscience, and he agrees to become an intermediary for the plotters – their foreign agent, as it were – and thereby he becomes an accessory to their plots.”

At one point Hitler planned to invade the Vatican, kidnap the Pope and bring him to Germany. Leading Nazi Heinrich Himmler “wanted to have the Holy Father publicly executed to celebrate the opening of a new soccer stadium,” Riebling said.

“Pius became aware of these plans, through his secret papal agents; and, in my view, that influenced the Holy Father’s decision to become involved with the anti-Nazi resistance.”

“When he heard that a priest was arrested for praying for the Jews and sent off to a concentration camp, he said: ‘I wish everyone would do that.’”

We hear a lot about when when Pope Paul IV in 1555 issued a canon (papal law), Cum Nimis Absurdum, by which the Roman Ghetto was created. For accusing the Jews of being the killers of Christ, Jews were then forced to live in seclusion in a specified area of the rione Sant’Angelo, locked in at night, and he decreed that Jews should wear a distinctive sign, yellow hats for men, and veils or shawls for women.

While many give selective historical quotes to show how bad the Popes were, they completely ignore that this created an uproar. And who was the defender of the Jews? It was the ‘evil’ Jesuits and the ‘evil’ Dominicans, and other conservatives in the Vatican itself and the Jews of the ghetto no longer had to wear their yellow badges and could buy land and work in other businesses. (see The Vatican’s Secret Plan To Save Jews From The Nazis by Gordon Thomas Page 25)

Why was this resolved? It was that the same Jesuits and Dominicans who went to the Nicene Creed, the core of the church for centuries which taught it was Pontius Pilate who was ultimately responsible for the death of Christ.

While we know that our sins killed Christ, be it Jew or Gentile, but this was speaking on the legal terms where every time a Catholic would say the rosary or some other prayer, you say it by name: “…Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died, and was buried.”

It was Francisco de Toledo, also of Jewish descent who was the first Jesuit to be appointed a cardinal. New Christians were so common in the order that King Phillip II of Spain termed the Jesuits “a synagogue of Hebrews.” Jesuit haters who claim love for Zion should read the fascinating subject of Jesuits and Jewish blood has received a full and expert treatment in Robert Aleksander Maryks’ recent work The Jesuit Order as a Synagogue of Jews.

There is a faction within the Evangelical movement that blames everything bad on the Vatican and the Jesuits. Nearly all of the anti-Jesuit enthusiasts are Evangelicals who are ardent apologists for Jews, Zionism and Israel. Yet it has been these who are the most notorious for making incredible allegations with the flimsiest evidence imaginable about the Jesuits.

The attitudes of people seem to be driven more by prejudice than anything. Here is one example:

“Are we to believe Martin Luther—this fearless man of God, the great champion of the doctrine of Justification by Faith alone, the center of attention at the Diet of Worms where he courageously made his immortal confession before the Papal Legate, the Emperor and hundreds of nobles ruling the Pope’s Holy Roman Empire—would hatefully malign the Jewish Race of the Lord Jesus Christ revealed in both the Old and New Testaments as opposed to the false, crucifix-Christ of Rome? Would this man, knowingly enjoying the protection of the risen Son of God from the hands of a multitude of Papal assassins, advocate murder and theft clearly condemned by the very Bible he had so diligently worked to translate into the language of his beloved German people? We read the following supposed words of Luther from a purported 1543 essay; which, in fact, was published sometime after his death in 1546 titled On the Jews and Their Lies …”

It is this that permeates the culture of the neo-Calvinists and so many in the Evangelical circles. Instead of dealing with the truth, these would write absurdities like:

Did not Jesuit Generals Ledochowski (1915-1942) and Janssens (1946-1964), using their Society of Jesus in control of Roman Catholic Hitler’s Nazis and the Jewish Labor Zionists, do all these things to the pitiful Jews of Europe only sixtyfive years ago? Dear truth-seeker, Martin Luther never wrote these words, as they do not comprise his style nor convey his Biblical, doctrinal convictions. Written after his death in 1546 and then deceitfully attributed to the Great Reformer as having been penned by him in 1543, these are the cruel words of the Jesuits …

To the conspiracy theorists, it was the Jesuits who wrote the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and not Russian Czarist Secret Police. Another crowd would say that Alberto Rivera exposed the truth that Jews aligned with the Pope wrote the Protocols. There are “Jesuits” in the American government, Jesuits run the world …. all the while that none of these conspirators can name a single active member of the Jesuit order who occupies high-level office in the American government and despite having Zionist lobby there are not one single Pro-Vatican lobby group is the U.S. which would obviously be calling to implement laws to ban abortion. Had these Evangelicals who are anti-Jesuit and pro-life would be at the forefront to kick-start an Evangelical-Jesuit lobby. Gay marriage would also be completely outlawed if Jesuits ran the show.

It would be much easier to concoct Jewish-controlled conspiracy theories. Why would Jesuits pass a Global Anti-Semitism Review Act in 2004 to monitor global antisemitism?

There have been for many decades now a huge preponderance of Jews in high-level positions in the US government. (See: Jews in the Clinton Administration, Jews in the Bush Administration, Jews in the Obama Administration)

While my two decades effort having changed the minds of millions that Vatican is not the Harlot of Babylon; this they accept since my interpretation transferred it to Mecca. However, to swim the tiber as result of finding a plagued Evangelical movement with so many hideous conspiracy theories, is where the buck stops. So I vowed to either shake the rest of my followers off, or convert them to the truth.

So many Evangelicals from believing the Gog and Magog is Russia, they still believe the Money Power, the Insiders, the Secret Team, or the High Cabal, sold out the U.S. to the Soviet Union, which would then establish a one-world government. Even after the Soviet bloc collapsed, it did not end this fear. Many Evangelicals still worry that the Kremlin caused this collapse as a charade intended to get Americans to put down their guard. The major 700 Club TV conspiracy theorist, Pat Robertson, because of his faulty prophetic interpretation, foresees a European seizure of American wealth via a world currency and a single global bank. This despite that the European Union is weakening and could possibly fall apart. The mad Robertson believes that “a one-world government, a one-world army, a one-world economy under an Anglo-Saxon financial oligarchy, and a world dictator served by a council of twelve faithful men.”

Conspiracy theories is a cult on its own and its adherents do not usually kick the habit. If I listen to Russian testosterone, I am quickly accused of being a KGB agent.

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  • Question: Does the current Pope Francis want to establish a “New World Order” like what Pope John Paul II proposed in 2004?

    “People are becoming more and more aware of the need for a New International
    Order…” John Paul II, World Day of Peace Homily, Jan. 1, 2004

    VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope John Paul II rang in the New Year on Thursday with a
    renewed call for peace in the Middle East and Africa and the creation of a new
    world order based on respect for the dignity of man and equality among nations.
    Source – http://www.thecomingcrisisinamerica.com/nwo.html

    • Julie

      Having a world based on respect of the dignity of man and equality among nations is not a contradiction to the 10 commandments or not allowing people to follow their religion that likewise shares the same values.

      There are belief systems out there that do not see people as equal, who see their nations superior and treat others as inferiors or worse.

      Of course such a world cannot be without some sort of purification of evil.

      I have studied a number of encyclicals and books of John Paul II.
      You may want to read ‘Threshold of Hope’ to gain a better perspective on his use of language in conjunction with his tremendous faith in Christ and love for all people.

      • Hi again, Julie. Of course, a world based on respect and dignity of man, etc. is what makes up the second great commandment of “Love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:36-40).

        However, Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and false christs (Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22) and in the case of Islam, for example, that ideology teaches a false Christ that is not of the New Testament Scripture. Yet, the attempt to unify the world in some sort of “interfaith dialogue” and “let’s all just get along” approach is contradictory to the teachings of the New Testament Jesus Christ. That’s where I see the RCC has some issues in thinking the world can all be united by interfaith means and also claiming that Muslims worship the same God and even as stated by Pope Francis – for example:

        Pope’s Address to Representatives of the Churches, Ecclesial Communities and Other Religions (excerpt) March 20, 2013

        “I then greet and cordially thank you all, dear friends belonging to other religious traditions; first of all the Muslims, who worship
        the one God, living and merciful, and call upon Him in prayer, and all of you. I really appreciate your presence: in it I see a tangible sign of the will to grow in mutual esteem and cooperation for the common good of humanity.”
        https://zenit.org/articles/pope-s-address-to-representatives-of-the-churches-ecclesial-communities-and-other-religions/

        Yet, another article excerpt:

        “The pope addresses the issue in a new “Evangelii Gaudium,” an
        apostolic exhortation. It’s on nearly the last page of the many
        thousands of words he writes.
        “Our relationship with the followers of Islam has taken on great importance, since they are now significantly present in many
        traditionally Christian countries, where they can freely worship and become fully a part of society,” he says. “We must never forget that they ‘profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, who will judge humanity on the last day.’”

        Julie, if the RCC believes in the New Testament, she is obligated to tell Muslims the Truth; that they do not believe in the same God nor the same Jesus. Same for the Jews needing to be evangelized and told that Christ is the Jewish Messiah – just like when Jesus sent his Apostles to the Lost Sheep of Israel, as written in Scripture, Matthew, Chaoter 10:

        “Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

        These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
        (Matthew 10:2-7)

        • The really slim shady

          The Pope is repeating, almost word for word, CCC 841.

          “The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

          • Julie

            You are avoiding looking at the rest of the 2,854 doctrines to get perspective.

            You prove nothing and your behavior in trying to prove things is just like the Mormons who get hold of a catechism….

          • The really slim shady

            I didnt even get ahold of a Catechism – just found that little nugget with dumb luck.

            And why would i want to gain the perspective of a book that says that?
            A little leaven….

            All i said was the pope was basically repeating CCC 841.
            Which he is. Which means that what i said is truth.

            I didnt even say anything about how crazy of a doctrine that is – yet, you naturally went into defense mode because deep down you know what it says, but are in too deep to question it.

          • Julie

            I told you not to bother me with your sins.

          • The really slim shady

            And i told you of you dont want to hear from me, dont make comments on my comments.

          • Julie

            Ridiculous.

          • The really slim shady

            Is it that ridiculous?
            I didnt comment on one of your comments, you commented on mine.

            You can choose to ignore what i write, its not that big of a deal.

            I know youd like to see me not comment at all, but unfortunately it looks like ill be around, at least for a while.

          • Julie

            Yes, saying disassembling comments is ridiculous and a waste of time.

            As JPII said, we are living in the time of anti gospel and anti church. Plenty of it in this country for sure by those who claim the Lord.

          • The really slim shady

            One thing I’ve heard from JP2 that I actually agree with.
            Theres probably more, but this is the first ive heard.

          • Julie

            So think twice and consider….the reality that Christ established only one church and not 40,000 at war with each other.

            Christ gave us our neighbor to point out our blind spots.

            If you don’t have the Church, you might as well be blind.

            Understanding God with the human mind is like comparing the eye of an owl next to the sun…..St Thomas Aquinas.

            Basta.

          • The really slim shady

            Think we’ve been through this, but…
            I don’t go to church, where I go the Church goes with me – the same as any other Christian.
            You forget to put your church in with that tired 40,000 argument.

            “Christ gave us our neighbor to point out our blind spots.”
            That’s why I’m here.

          • Julie

            Catholic Catechism has 1.5 pages of small lines of what makes Church.

          • Julie

            And so you now have to take the next step and find out what JPII meant by true church and true gospel.

            See if you can come out better than him, pun intended.

          • The really slim shady

            I know what he meant by the “true church”, and I know what he meant by the “true gospel”.
            But I’m not looking for advice on what it means to be a Christian from a man that dedicated himself to Mary – that is a different gospel.

            “But
            I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
            subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
            in Christ. For
            if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached,
            or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another
            gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

          • Julie

            Dont be sending me dumb comments about what you think the catechism is saying. You are acting like the Mormons.

          • The really slim shady

            Dont be dumb,
            I didnt send you anything.
            Go back and check the feed, i responded to someone else.

          • Julie

            Stop addressing me then with your cherry picking mind.

          • Woody

            Boy are you lucky Julie now you do not have to comment on his non-comments; how do you luck out?

          • Julie

            Very misinterpreting person…little formal education…we studied the catechism in diocese through various topics….over and over again…not one doctrine but in context of all.

            Same tactic Mormons use on CCC460 and ignore the footnotes and references that give the correct understanding. I told my pastor how much it is misused.

          • Woody

            So there– you should never comment on his comments commenting on other comments which he comments on or he will take his marbles and go home but not before he has the last comments on your commenting on other people’ comment especially if it is Santa Claus.
            Whew! Spelled santa wrong.

          • Will-Kayla Maxwell

            You do realize ” The plan of salvation” includes everyone including Muslims right? Did Christ not die for the muslims aswell as everyone else?

            No where here does it say that the muslim religion saves anyone. This address on muslims is but a way to overly politically correct way of urging Catholics to evangelise to muslims. Reminding them that muslims are also included in the plan of salvation so get the truth to them. When they are saying that muslims adore the one merciful God with us, they are just stating what muslims claim. It is an out reach to the muslims. This is in no way a dogmatic statement saying that allah is God.

            Sadly it is very true that this and many other overly vague statements from Vatican II have been purposely twisted and used to teach things to even Catholics that are actually contrary to the teachings of the Church. Many Catholics especially in the U.S. believe that everyone is going to heaven regardless of their religion because of several decades of evil bishops and priest pushing ideas and doctrines that are against the Church and steeped in American pluralism and tolerance (aka tolerance of evil).

            For example the Judas Bishop Robert Barron of EWTN echoes the heretical teaching of Hans Urs von Balthasar that “we have a reasonable hope that all men are saved”
            It is a Dogma of the Catholic church that “There is no Salvation outside the Catholic Church” . Dogma means that this is a fundamental doctrine of the faith that must be believed by all in order for them to be Catholic.

          • The really slim shady

            Thats sad that Catholic Catechism teaches things that make people confused on what the truth really is.
            Maybe it would be better if CCC 841 didnt exist….

            But it does.
            And any reasonable person is going to see that it says that Catholics and Muslims serve the same god.

            Its hard to minister to “the least of these” if you need a phd and a decoder ring to figure out what your faith believes.

            Fortunately, i dont believe most Catholics serve Allah. Unfortunately, i think the god of the bishops and imams might be the same, just as they say it is.

            And as far as no salvation outside the Church, just more proof that the leaders of Catholicism dont read their Bible – that one is easy to dispute.

          • Will-Kayla Maxwell

            Your comment strikes me as being both partly true and at the same time naïve and comical. It is true that it is a very sad situation in which we now live were the truth is for the most part not declared to the people but hidden from them. However, we as individuals have the obligation to seek the truth, and we can find it. The endeavor is just complicated and takes a substantial amount of effort on our part, Walid is a great example of this.

            The Church is going through a very trying time, in my own opinion this is the great apostasy, but I may be wrong that is just my opinion. Regardless we have a situation were the truth of the faith is not being taught to Catholics much less declared to the world.

            As far as the Catechism teaching things that make people confused, this is not a good argument to make if you are trying to argue against Catholicism and for Protestantism. You can not deny that even the God breathed Holy scriptures are full of statements just vague enough that when coupled with the idea of personal interpretation (protestant rebellion) they have led to more confusion than any thing else in the history of the world. In truth these bishops and priest that confuse the faithful are doing the same thing as protestants. It is a new form of Protestantism were people protest the teachings of the Church but they are allowed to stay in the Church and call themselves faithful Catholics. This is why the tradition of the Church, the history and councils are of absolute necessity to know the truth. Just as protestants take the Bible and disconnect it from tradition, these men in the Church take documents from the second Vatican council and disconnect them from tradition. If the documents of the council are taken in light of the tradition of the Church (deposit of faith) there is no confusion. The same rule applies to the Holy Bible. History really is the key to knowing the truth.

            Would it be better if CCC 841 didn’t exist?
            Would it be better in John chapter 6 didn’t exist?
            Just poking fun at your logic here.

            Would it be better if CCC 841 didn’t exist?
            My opinion on this matter really is of no importance, however I will give my thoughts just for amusement.

            Personally I think it would be better if it didn’t exist, but I also personally think that certain parts of the Vatican II documents were written in very vague ways on purpose. That in no way means that the Church is not still the Church. You must understand that this council was not like any other council before it. It did not address any doctrines only pastoral practice. By definition it then contained no dogmatic or infallible teaching. While the council changed nothing doctrinal it seems as though the council was used by wicked people to convince the world and Catholics that the faith had completely changed. Councils typically are called to address heresies. Their declarations were doctrinal and very precise. They meticulously worded their documents in ways so that they could not be misunderstood because the very point of the documents were to clarify what the truth is. The documents of the second Vatican council can be read in light of tradition and understood to not be heretical. However, the vague wording of the writings has caused more harm than good, considering that I think it would have been better if the second Vatican council never occurred. Anyhow if Christ does not return soon there will have to be a new council called in order to address the confusion that has come into the Church following Vatican II.

          • The really slim shady

            Thank you for your well thought out comment.
            I want to make one thing clear, I am not arguing for Protestantism, I don’t have any allegiance to that either. I consider Catholics and Protestant two peas in the same pod.
            And I want to go a step further and say that I agree with you – that we are in the “Great Apostasy”. I think that’s the problem with ALL of the organized Christian religions.
            I don’t believe for one second that the Church is Catholic, Anglican, Orthodox, Baptist, or anything of the sort.
            I believe there is evidence to conclude that all of them have some things wrong, and I would say that the true Church has members from every denomination.

            So that being said, I’m against the organizations that made these ludicrous doctrines and dogmas, not the people who believe them.
            And these organizations are merely just a different form of politics, thus we have all the Christian infighting.

            That’s why there has to be a standard for the Christian faith, the good news is we do – the Bible.
            We all profess that the Bible is the Word of God, yet most of us believe things that are not found in the Word of God.
            I know, some of the deeper things of God are veiled. But anyone who is a real Christian has the Holy Spirit, and does not have a problem discerning the Word.
            Not knowing exactly how the end will play out is a far cry from not knowing the difference between Allah and Jehovah.

            Yes, it would be better for CCC 841 to not exist, because its preposterous. And it’s sad to think that an organization that considers it’s leader Christ on earth and it’s entity the pillar of truth, to say such a thing. It’s reminiscent of when the Pope said Atheists who do good go to heaven.
            It just goes to show you that these higher ups could care less, and have no clue what the Bible actually says.

            Tradition has made the pure waters of the Word of God cloudy. The Gospel is a simple message, but religious tradition has made it a burden.
            It’s no wonder that the world wants nothing to do with the Church, it has very little to do with the truth of the Word of God anymore. If it had, our world would see much more peace than it does. The Truth is the Word of God, not tradition.

            It’s interesting to me that you agree the Church is apostate, yet you defend it as though it is pure and holy. The churches we have nowadays are corrupt shells of their former selves, just as the Word of God said they would be.

          • Will-Kayla Maxwell

            Thank you, I do appreciate your response as well. To clarify on one issue I do not believe that the Church is apostate, although it is fact that apostasy has always existed in the Church from the beginning. Just think of Judas or Arius. We do know that at the end of time a falling away will occur that is so great it is called the great apostasy. Apostasy is the abandonment of a religious belief. The great apostasy can not occur anywhere except in the true Church because in order to abandon religious truth you would have to formerly uphold religious truth. If it is truly the end of the age what should we possibly expect to be happening in the true Church except the great apostasy. That does not mean that the Church is apostate, that is impossible, it means that a majority of the people in the Church have abandoned religious truth. This is exactly what we see going on in the Church today. Whether this is the great apostasy or just a really bad apostasy we don’t yet know.

            I do not agree with your analysis of what the Church is. The Catholic church is the true church of Christ. It is the body of Christ and will never be apostate even if individual members in the church are. I think you are reasonable and are seeking the truth, so I will challenge you to think about a hard question. How do you know that the Bible is the word of God? The truth is we only know what the word of God is because the Church told us what it is. The new testament completely relies on the Tradition of the Church and the ruling of the councils of Hippo and Carthage. You don’t yet understand that by relying on the Bible for truth you are indeed relying on the Church and the tradition of the Church to some extent. For an example take Matthew 7:13 “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.” Taking this passage the truth is we have no way of knowing if Jesus really said these words, or that Matthew a disciple of Jesus really wrote these words. The only way to know this is because the Church told us so. The Holy Scriptures come from the Church and can only be understood properly through the Church. You are wrong in believing that the Holy Spirit will just enable all of us who really love Jesus to interpret the Bible correctly. All we have to do is read this blog and we know that this is obviously not true. We see the evidence to the failure of this idea all around us. We must have the Church in order to have the truth, think about what Jesus was doing while he was on earth. He didn’t write a book, he was forming his Church for the very purpose of bringing himself (the Truth) to the world. This is what the Church has continued to do for 2,000 years since then. The truth is still in the Church and only in the Church regardless of the fact that there are wicked apostates trying to hide it. At the time of the end the Beast is allowed to come up and persecute the Church because the members of the Church by and large have abandoned their commission to bring the Lord to the world, and thus have abandoned the Lord. The great apostasy is what leads to the rise of the Beast, but once the persecution begins those who have abandoned the Lord will leave the Church or turn back to Christ. The Church will be purified through this trial and will become a Church without spot or wrinkle. Then when they cry out for the Lord to deliver them, the Lord will hear their cries, and Christ will return to deliver his bride from destruction. Are we living in this time? I don’t know, but I do think that we are. It is very important to be a part of Christ Church, his body, his kingdom. Think about the hard questions search for the truth, and you will eventually find yourself in the Church in which Jesus Christ founded, the Roman Catholic Church.

          • The really slim shady

            You assume I was born just yesterday, and have never used reason, or ever done a bit of research.
            You think I have never asked questions, and just rely on what “they” have told me.

            It’s interesting you believe that the RCC is the true Church in spite of the numerous occasions where it has proven that it’s members displayed behavior that was quite contrary to that declaration.
            You can see that Luther and Calvin behaved in ways that were contrary to the Word, and are quick to condemn all Protestants – yet you consider Catholicism righteous.

            I propose that this proves my point. There is fault in every Christian religious organization. There are saints mingled with sinners in every venue. That’s why it is proven that it doesn’t matter if you’re Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Coptic, or otherwise – True Church > denomination.

            This is where we disagree; because in my logic you could be considered a Christian (albeit a misguided one), whereas with your logic not only can I not be considered a Christian – I am a heretic.
            Who is Paul, and who is Apollos?
            What makes you a Christian is not your church membership but your heart.
            “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:” Romans 8:16
            The Church is made up of real Christians; not Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Etc etc.
            There has never been an apostate in the Church, not one – it’s impossible.

            You asked me how I know that the Bible is the Word of God.
            That’s simple; I know the Bible is the word of God, not because of pastors or priests, but because of the power the Bible has. The Bible bears witness to itself that it is the Word of God.
            And where you give credit to the Church for composing the Bible, I give all the glory to God.
            It is God who inspired Moses to write the Law. It’s God who inspired David and Solomon. It’s God who inspired the prophets and the apostles. And it was God who preserved their works – it had to have been. The Bible is a bigger work than man can accomplish. But God, being such a loving merciful God – used men and allowed them to share the glory.
            But let’s be real, it was the general consensus of the people that decided canon, not the RCC.
            The councils voted on what was already widely accredited, and shored up what was already in circulation in the churchES – not just what the church of Rome deemed necessary.

            And let’s also be honest, the RCC fought tooth and nail to keep the Bible from the masses – for fear of people like myself (the ones that go directly to Christ for salvation). It is a dangerous thought , after all, to believe one can have a personal relationship with Christ.
            So although God used the early councils to get a general consensus on what the Bible should consist of, and therefore make it more accessible to the masses – he also used the Reformers to translate the Bible from Latin, and therefore make it more accessible to the masses.

            So had it not been for the councils, I probably would have found the Bible on some illegally downloaded torrent somewhere – God is the keeper of His Word. And in that case, just as the reality – it is the power in the words that prove the Bible, not the carriers who brought me the message.

            You don’t need tradition to explain the Bible. For the most part, the Bible explains itself – and in reality, the Bible was only meant to be a written testimony to direct us to what we really need. And what we really need is to know God, the Bible helps – but what better source than God Himself?
            It’s no wonder He says to all those religious people who prophesied and cast out demons “Depart from me, I never knew you”.
            That’s the most important thing in the world, knowing God. Having a relationship with Christ is the reason He made man. That’s what He wants from us, that’s what His Son died to allow.
            The Bible is great to learn about God, Jewish history, Church history, and how to live your life – but it’s not a substitute for what we really need.

            And in closing, I make the argument that I believe God is more powerful than you give Him credit for. I believe it is He who calls us, He who transforms us into the likeness of His Son, and He who justifies us, He who is the foundation of the Church, He who composed the Bible, etc. I believe all things in the world are firmly in His grasp. And I believe, wholeheartedly, that anybody who claims the need to be a mediator between you and Christ is an anti-Christ.
            Christ is all you need. You don’t even need the Bible, after all – the heavens declare the glory of God.

            “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into
            all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall
            hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:13
            “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”James 1:5

          • Will Maxwell

            No, I do not assume you where born yesterday. However, I can discern from your comments that you have not researched or applied reason to these issues. Your ultimate answer to what is truth is what ever you think it is. Its relativism and it is demonic. Your answer to How do you know that the Bible is the Word of God is basically, I like it and I think it is, so it should be naturally evident to everyone that it is. Ok Pope Slim. You are wrong the Bible was canonized by the bishops in communion with the Bishop of Rome. Which is the God given way for us to know truth. The Catholic Church has never kept the word of God from the masses. lol The Word of God is read every day at the Masses. The printing press was invented by a Catholic and the first thing off the presses was the Bible. Christ is the only mediator between God and man. The Church is the body of Christ (one flesh with him). The Church then as well becomes a mediator because of Christ not in spite of Christ. The Church as the body of Christ joins Jesus in his ministry. Different members in different roles. Example Paul preached the Gospel the people believed and came into the Church. Paul a person just mediated between those people and God. Every member of the Body joins Christ in his mediation. Not because of the individual, but because of Christ in them. The same is true for the roles of the Bishops and Priest. This is somewhat hard to understand but not as hard to understand as God saying I am one yet God is a Trinity.

            John 20:22
            When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
            Why does Jesus give his authority to forgive or retain sins to his Disciples if he didn’t intend for them to exercise this form of mediation?
            If Jesus wanted us to just come to him in the way you believe. Why did he ever say this to his Disciples?
            It seems to me that with the way you believe, the Holy Spirit inspiring the Written Scriptures was a bad thing. Because if it wasn’t for the Bible we would all just trust in the Holy Spirit in us and just magically come to the truth. All the Bible has done is create confusion and division.

          • The really slim shady

            Your last argument is similar to the one where guns kill people. Greedy people have created confusion and division.

            My answer to why I believe the Bible is the Word of God is because the Bible speaks for itself.
            Bible Prophecy, probably more than any other thing, verifies God’s authorship of the Bible.
            The power to transform the hearts and minds of individuals proves it is the Word of God.
            The time span the Bible was written, coupled with the lack of contradictions and errors prove God is the author of the Bible.
            It is the Spirit who resides in the word of the Bible that proves the Bible. It’s hard to diligently search the Bible and not get in contact with that Spirit.

            Yes, Gutenberg printed a Bible – yet it was just another copy of the Vulgate. Again, thank God for the Reformers, whom He used to break the RCC monopoly, and get the Word of God into languages all gentiles could understand.

            If Jesus didn’t want us to come directly to Him, why does He say this?
            “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
            Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
            For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30
            “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and
            open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with
            me.” Revelation 3:20
            “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
            Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he
            called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also
            glorified.”
            Romans 8:29-30

            Your verse about forgiveness of sin has nothing to do with confession the way you see it, I see it more like this verse:
            “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house
            or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
            Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.” Matthew 10;14-15 (unforgiven)
            Or this verse:
            “Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his
            way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” James 5:20 (forgiven)

          • Will Maxwell

            Thank you, I do completely understand your point of view, and you have expressed it well. I do not think the Bible is the problem, but personal interpretations of the Bible. We may disagree here, but I believe in the necessity for absolute truth when regarding the revelation of Jesus Christ. The lack of absolute truth means confusion. Where there is not absolute truth there is a lie.
            John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

            The grace of God is continually active in the lives of every individual, shining light on the truth and attempting to pull the individual to Christ. However, it does depend on the individual to cooperate with that grace. The pull of that grace is constantly combated inside the individual by the individual’s sin nature, their flesh. I think a lot of the people who have caused great confusion were actually well intended. They were misguided do to the fact of a fallen human nature. When truth depends on the interpretation of an individual it is impossible for the individual to not mingle truth with their own misconceptions due to their fallen nature. The person would have to be completely holy and solely directed by the Holy Spirit. Why do you believe yourself to be that person? Why you and not Joel Olsten? The Catholic Church has never taken the position that truth is dependent on an individual’s capability to obtain this level of sanctity. We as individuals can and will make mistakes until we are glorified with Christ, and are no longer affected by concupiscence. Just the fact that we make mistakes in our lives should be a red flag to us that our personal interpretations of the Bible may be incorrect. The Church believes that there is residing within the Church the ability to know and teach the truth because of the mystical qualities of the Church not the individuals who make up the Church. Namely that the Holy Spirit guides and ensures that the Church is able to teach the faith infallibly under certain conditions. This ability residing in the Church is of great necessity to ensure that we as individuals would have a guaranteed way of knowing the truth. In other words even if the Pope was absolutely terrible that would not negate the fact that the truth is preserved and available inside the Church. The infallibility in the teaching does not rely on the individual but on the teaching office inside the Church, basically on the Holy Spirit. This concept comes to life when you study the history of the Church and realize the Church holds to the same teachings as it did 2,000 years ago. The Church is not just a human organization made up of men. It is that in one degree, but it is much more than that. The Church is capable of declaring the truth because it is the body Christ animated by the Holy Spirit. Being the body of Christ it declares the truth to the world because Christ did and continues to do so through his Body. The Church preserves the revelation of Christ in full as handed down from the apostles, and the Bible is part of that preservation of truth. I think you are very much right in discerning the remarkable qualities of the Bible that declare it to not just be a collection of normal writings, but something greater. This is the same conclusion the Bishops of the Catholic Church, while led by the Holy Spirit, had when they established the cannon of the Bible as the Word of God. You agree with them here, but why don’t you agree with them about the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist or in the necessity for communion with the Bishop of Rome? Once you start to study Church History you will realize that dogmas and rulings from the Church are not about establishing the truth. They are about preserving and protecting the truth established by Jesus Christ from the beginning.
            The conclusion that the Bible is the word of God is not the conclusion everyone will just naturally come to. This is obvious by the fact that the majority of the world does not believe the Bible is the world of God. The Bible is not the only thing in this world that has the power to transform hearts and minds. Speeches and writings from Hitler, Obama, and Muhammad transformed hearts and minds, for example. There are all kinds of things and circumstances in this world that can radically transform hearts and minds for the better or worse. Some would say that the Bible is chalked full of contradictions, once again it depends on the interpretation.

            Christ does want us to come to him. I don’t disagree with these scriptures just the way you understand them. Catholic faith does not keep you from Christ. On the contrary the purpose of the Catholic faith is to bring us to Christ. It’s not replacing the personal relationship with Christ with something else. It not personal relationship with Christ or the personal act of becoming one with Christ in the Eucharist, it’s both. It’s not the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the individual or the Holy Spirit speaking through the teaching office of the Church, it’s both. It’s not Christ or the Pope, it’s both. It’s not the Bible or Sacred Tradition, It’s both.

            Just so you know there were numerous translations in the native languages of the people long before the cursed reformers. This idea is a lie that you have heard and just believed. Here is just a brief excerpt concerning Bible translations in the German language from Wikipedia, if you are interested you can find a lot of information concerning Bible translations in numerous languages long before the rebellion.

            “There are still approximately 1,000 manuscripts or manuscript fragments of Medieval German Bible translations extant.[1] The earliest known and partly still available Germanic version of the Bible was the fourth century Gothic translation of Wulfila (ca. 311–80). This version, translated primarily from the Greek, established much of the Germanic Christian vocabulary that is still in use today. Later Charlemagne promoted Frankish biblical translations in the 9th century. There were Bible translations present in manuscript form at a considerable scale already in the thirteenth and the fourteenth century (e.g. the New Testament in the Augsburger Bible of 1350 and the Old Testament in the Wenceslas Bible of 1389). There is ample evidence for the general use of the entire vernacular German Bible in the fifteenth century.[1] In 1466, before Martin Luther was even born, Johannes Mentelin printed the Mentel Bible, a High German vernacular Bible, at Strasbourg. This edition was based on a no-longer-existing fourteenth-century manuscript translation of the Vulgate from the area of Nuremberg. Until 1518, it was reprinted at least 13 times. In 1478–79, two Low German Bible editions were published in Cologne, one in the Low Rhenish dialect and another in the Low Saxon dialect. In 1494, another Low German Bible was published in the dialect of Lübeck, and in 1522, the last pre-Lutheran Bible, the Low Saxon Halberstadt Bible was published. In total, there were at least eighteen complete German Bible editions, ninety editions in the vernacular of the Gospels and the readings of the Sundays and Holy Days, and some fourteen German Psalters by the time Luther first published his own New Testament translation”

            Luther’s translation was not about bringing the Word of God to the poor people. It was about making his personal interpretation the Word of God. Do you see the real danger here? When an individual’s interpretation is the truth, the individual decides what God says. The individual conforms God to his image, thus the individual becomes God. If God does exist (and he does) and the Bible is the word of God (and it is), then there has to be an infallible interpreter capable of speaking for God (not talking about the Holy Spirit that is a given). If not there is no way for us to know the truth, and if we can’t know the truth, how can God expect us to come to the truth? The only question is who is that interpreter? Luther, Calvin, You, … , … , … , or the Church?

            John 18:37
            Pilate therefore said to him: Art thou a king then? Jesus answered: Thou sayest that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice.

            Maybe you should thank God for the Catholic Church who, by the Holy Spirit, gave to us the Bible, converted the pagans, and brought the good news of the gospel to nearly the entire world, before there was ever any notion of a personal interpretation of scripture. Most don’t realize that if it wasn’t for the reformation the entire globe could very well be Christian today.
            God Bless you and May the Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

          • Woody

            SLIM SHADY (GOOD NAME) STATEMENT: You assume I was born just yesterday, and have never used reason, or ever done a bit of research. You think I have never asked questions, and just rely on what “they” have told me.

            ANSWER: Woody: This is true; once on this or another site a Protestant wrote me and said, “Woody. You do not understand us Protestants. Let me explain. We are discouraged to read the early Church Fathers. We are told by our ministers if we have any questions “just come and ask me?” But when we do—they just give us what they were taught, quite different than reading the Fathers of the church.

            Note: (I was seeing this in all posts and the fact that all of the Protestant ministers that came into the Catholic Church—had one thing in common—they read the early Church Fathers including the brilliant Scott Hahn who, when he could not find “Sola Scriptura” anywhere in scripture asked 9 fellow friend ministers where it is? None could tell him. So he went to read the early Church Fathers, and said, “Goodness. I am in the wrong church.” (his book Rome Sweet Home)

            STATEMENT: It’s interesting you believe that the RCC is the true Church in spite of the numerous occasions where it has proven that it’s members displayed behavior that was quite contrary to that declaration.

            ANSWER: This shows that you do lack education. All churches’ members display this (bad behavior) and has nothing to do with Catholicism. It is called “sin.” It’s got nothing to do with the Church’s teaching and why we have the Sacrament of Penance (Confession) The Late Bishop Sheen viewed it just the opposite when he said, “You can tell the holiest churches by the length of its confession lines.” So true. Two years ago at my Holy Church (Christmas time) I was 150th in the Confession line.

            STATEMENT: You can see that Luther and Calvin behaved in ways that were contrary to the Word, and are quick to condemn all Protestants – yet you consider Catholicism righteous.

            I never said, the following below (righteous) Show me. What I said was we follow our Founder Jesus who states in Scripture that He was founding His Church on Kephas (Peter, after having changed his name from Simon)

            Note: Each time God changed a person’s name in the bible it is because “He had a special Mission for that Person, e.g., Saul (who had stoned Stephen) to Paul – his mission “the Apostle of the Gentiles.” [e.g., Peter from Simon, since Jesus, knowing that He was to leave soon, — his mission, the First Bishop of Rome [by the way an expert on this subject was an astute, Protestant Theologian, Adolph Harnack, who said “to any Protestant who denies this (Peter in Rome as the First Head), “do not believe them for protestants are prejudiced. I’ll go even further, they are BLIND.” (he went on “No true historian or expert today (1940s) denies this; they all agree”)

            STATEMENT: This is where we disagree; because in my logic you could be considered a Christian (albeit a misguided one), whereas with your logic not only can I not be considered a Christian – I am a heretic.

            ANSWER: Can’t disagree here. Both Jesus and Peter predicted the Heretics would soon follow. Incidentally, your linking “Coptics” with Baptists, etc is also not true. Jesus’ True Church includes Coptics for they are “APOSTOLIC.” Baptists founded over 1517 years after Jesus cannot be the Church Jesus founded in Scripture.

            STATMENT: “What makes you a Christian is not your church membership but your heart.

            “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:” Romans 8:16

            The Church is made up of real Christians; not Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Etc etc.

            ANSWER: Not at all true. Jesus said, “…that ALL may be ONE.” AND “Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you FREE.” AND “They hold me on their lips but NOT in their HEART.” Believing in the Bible (NT) alone (Sola Scriptura) is NOT a Teaching of Jesus and is found nowhere in the Bible. This is why you follow Martin Luther—not Jesus. And why you have made yourself your own god—always telling the Father what He can and cannot do. God can do ALL things is what His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church teaches (the four marks of the True Church of Jesus)

            His Church is NOT a “Denomination.” To be a “Denomination” means there has to be more than ONE and He founded only ONE God (Jesus) Made Church – not 40,000 MAN-MADE churches (1517 years after He founded HIS CHURCH) with a new one born every seven days.

            Additionally, if you were educated you would know the principles of Logic founded by the Father of Logic – Aristotle (Socates) You fail on the simplest test of Logic: “Opposites [contradictions] cannot be true at the same time.” Example, “you imply all the churches are Christian??” The Anglican Church (most) say “Marriage Must Be Between ONE Man and ONE Woman…the Episcopalians say “Gay Marriage is Okay.” Jesus could not have possibly said that BOTH these statements are true for it defies all the rules of Logic, and is not Christian and this happens with all of your man-made doctrines.

            Another example:. The doctrine of Jesus Body and Blood Soul and Divinity being PRESENT in the Eucharist (the Host) is true and was believed by ALL Christians and was never even questioned until the heresy of the 5th Century. The Apostolic Churches ALL have Jesus’ truth, be they Catholics, Coptics, Byzantines, many Orthodox…

            The same is True of the Seven Sacraments Jesus founded. All the Apostolic Churches are, having been founded by Jesus believe this. Protestants have only two sacraments. Jesus could not have possibly said “I have 7 Sacraments AND “I have 2 Sacraments” for OPPOSITES CANNOT BE TRUE AT THE SAME TIME.

            STATEMENT: There has never been an apostate in the Church, not one – it’s impossible.

            ANSWER: You knowledge of the Bible is JV: Have you forgotten even JUDAS?

            STATEMENT: You asked me how I know that the Bible is the Word of God.

            That’s simple; I know the Bible is the word of God, not because of pastors or priests, but because of the power the Bible has. The Bible bears witness to itself that it is the Word of God. “Let’s be real…” How about let us be TRUTHFUL.

            ANSWER: There was NO NT until it was put together at the Catholic Church Councils of Nicea (325 AD), Hippo (393 AD) and Chalcedon (451 AD) Again, you knowledge of history is appalling. The NT was not completed until April 8th, 1592.

            And where you give credit to the Church for composing the Bible, “Yes, Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.” Show him Jesus.

            STATEMENT: But God, being such a loving merciful God – used men and allowed them to share the glory.

            ANSWER: Congratulations you FINALLY ADMIT that God can DELEGATE TASKS, CHORES TO SAINTS AND HIS MOM AND OTHERS – Another CONTRADICTION ON YOUR PART

            STATEMENT: The councils voted on what was already widely accredited, and shored up what was already in circulation in the churches – not just what the church of Rome deemed necessary.

            ANSWER: Another heresy; Very few churches and they were all Catholic had the documents; it took the Monks of the Catholic Church rewriting them years to get them around, and some were accredited some denied authenticity (Shepard of Hermas, etc,.) much like your FAKE Pope Joan. NOTE that Not ONE PROTESTANT showed up and yet like you they seem to know everything about the Bible today—most of wrong due to self-interpretation.

            STATEMENT: “Let’s be real…the people made up the NT?

            ANSWER: You get wackier as we proceed. Most of the people were uneducated (ILLITERATE). The Councils were all attended by the Bishops of Rome who made the decision. Do yourself a favor and go back for some history lesson so you don’t look silly. You envision early AD days with 20th century eyeglasses, like Christians were hiding out in caves from the Romans, etc, not sipping a beer and reviewing the writings fo St Paul as you seem to believe WHILE WATCHING TV AND TYPING THEM UP-RIGHT!.

            STATEMENT: he also used the Reformers to translate the Bible from Latin, and therefore make it more accessible to the masses.

            ANSWER II due to more need for education on your part; A little late again;

            St. Jerome and the Vulgate (completing the FIRST LATIN TRANSLATION Bible in the year 404) — NOT 1517 Years later.

            ANSWER: There was NO reform, only more heresy; take Henry the VIII who killed off his wives so he could break with Rome or Luther who held up the Bible and said, “Why the Bible is “inerrant,” and he then proceeded to tear out 7 books and throw them away. Wha? Where did “inerrant” go.

            A Lutheran friend told me the real reason Luther broke with Rome is he fell in love with a Nun and wanted to marry her which he did 6 years later.

            STATEMENT: That’s the most important thing in the world, knowing God. Having a relationship with Christ

            ANSWER: No closer relationship with Christ exists than RECEIVING HIS BODY BLOOD SOUL AND DIVINITY on a daily basis. Which all of the Apostolic Churches have. Protestant churches have REJECTED HIM“

            STATEMENT: The Catholic Church suppressed the bible

            ANSWER: Completely false: ) It was not until the 1600’s that the first Bible was printed. Prior to those days, very few Bibles were available, such being hand written and owned by the Church and/or the rich, these being kept under lock and key. So the average person had no access to the Bible. He could not use the Bible as a reference to support that it was the pillar and bulwark of the truth. In fact, the people turned to the Church to learn the tradition, the doctrines, the teachings of the Catholic Church.

            The truth is that it is only during the last four hundred years that the Protestants have made claim that the Bible is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. Prior to that, they could not make such a claim because they had no access to the Bible.

          • The really slim shady

            Hey Woody, thanks for your very long comment. I’m going to try to summarize to bring it back down to size.

            Answer 1: The Church Fathers are interesting, but unessential to one’s faith. It’s no different than reading the works of a living minister – other than perhaps the context of time.
            Also, these Protestants you speak of should have a mind of their own and not rely solely on their minister to tell them what God says.

            Answer 2: “This shows that you do lack education. All churches’ members display this (bad behavior) and has nothing to do with Catholicism.”
            Exactly, all churches have members that display sinful behavior – that was my point. All of the churches have members who are really saved and members who are not.

            Answer 3: I’m not sure what you’re asking in point 3, and the Peter thing is a separate Issue entirely. So I’m going to move on to the next one.

            Answer 4: Jesus’ Church includes some Copts, not because they’re “Apostolic” but because of the individual’s heart. It also includes some Baptists, who’s faith was not founded in 1517 – but at the cross.

            Answer 5: All Christians are one – we are one in the Spirit. Its the ones who are burdened by denomination that are divided. What proves it is when you get together with someone you don’t even know, and you have the same view of God as them. Amazingly, you can come to the same understanding – even when you don’t go to the same denominational church).
            Of course there’s 40,000+ different denominations – there’s very FEW real Christians out there.
            Of course there’s opposing viewpoints – there’s very few real Christians out there.
            This is why, unlike what you think of me, I don’t follow Martin Luther – or any other man. I go directly to the Bible.

            And I know, Jesus never said that the Bible was sufficient (He did say His grace was sufficient), As I said in my post, the Bible isn’t meant to be a replacement for what you really need – a personal relationship with Christ.
            But the Bible itself does say that scripture is inspired by God, able to make you wise unto salvation, alive, active, and sharper than any two-edged sword. What more need ye?

            Answer 6: My knowledge of the Bible is JV, and you are wise in your own eyes….Judas was a disciple, but was he ever really saved?
            Judging by how we see him portrayed in the Bible I tend to think he wasn’t. I’m thinking he was driven by similar ambitions as Simon Magus.
            You believe salvation is earned by organizational membership, I know that’s nothing close to what the Word of God says.
            Christ’s Church has no wannabes in it’s membership – it only consists of true-blue Christians.

            Answer 7: “There was NO NT until it was put together at the Catholic Church Councils of Nicea (325 AD)”
            So Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Revelation, etc was WRITTEN in 325 AD by Catholics???
            Because I was under the impression that the apostles wrote these letters directly to people/churches by 100 AD.
            Apostles write the letters, recipients copy the letters, recipients distribute the copes to the masses, a general consensus is formed – it’s pretty simple. Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

            Answer 8: God always uses a person, most often a flawed person. But when God does use the person, He performs His work through them – it’s not as if the Church put the Bible together on its own accord.
            Again, where you give man credit – I give all the glory to God.

            Answer 9: My fake Pope Joan?….lol…what?
            Churches come in all different shapes and sizes.
            “Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend
            Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.” Romans 16:5
            There has always been many different organizations of Christian people – which are referred to as Churches. As you know, wherever two or more gather together in His name, He is there.
            Naturally there were no Protestants, but clearly there was opposing viewpoints – thus the desire to come together to form a canon.

            Answer 9: I must ask you if you understand how early Churches worked.
            It was quite expensive to copy letters of the NT, so it’s not like everybody had a Bible. Yet, perhaps a church had one of the letters of John, or a few of the letters of the NT and the Psalms….
            You don’t need everybody to be able to read it – just one person able to read. They then can read it to the group, and then they can all discuss it. Being Illiterate has nothing to do with it, and is a very poor argument.

            Answer 10: You keep insulting my intelligence, yet you are clearly having a tough time with understanding what I write.
            “he also used the Reformers to translate the Bible FROM LATIN, and therefore make it more accessible to the masses.”
            “St. Jerome and the Vulgate (completing the FIRST LATIN TRANSLATION Bible in the year 404) — NOT 1517 Years later.”
            You see, I wrote that the Reformers translated the Bible FROM LATIN – into the languages of the common people.
            Say what you want, but as much credit as you give to the RCC for bringing us the Bible should be given to Wycliffe, Luther, and the others.

            And if a Lutheran friend told you why Luther left the church it must be true, after all – they’re Lutheran.
            I’d say if it was true it was a wise decision to leave the RCC, considering the clergy isn’t allowed to marry.

            Answer 11: There’s no closer relationship you can have with Christ than Him living inside of you – which is what happens when you are born again. Don’t you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit? To live is Christ.

            Answer 12: You didn’t so much disprove my point, but bolstered it.
            You’re right, before the Reformers translated the Bible, nobody could really make the claim the Bible was the pillar and bulwark of truth – because Rome kept it for themselves.
            It’s a dangerous thought, people getting close to God, without Rome getting their cut.
            But, thanks to God, He used the Reformers to get the Bible into the hands of every simpleton on earth, so that they too could hear the good news – which is for all people.

            Conclusion: There’s nothing wrong with reading the Church Fathers, or knowing the history of the church – but that doesn’t make one a Christian. I always say that what makes you a Christian can be summed up with one question;
            “He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?”
            “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (That’s a confession of faith) Matthew 16:15-16
            And watch what Jesus says here:
            “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 16:17

            “We love him, because he first loved us” 1 John 4:19
            “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he
            called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also
            glorified.” Romans 8:30

          • Woody

            Wrong — the Church Fathers tell us the Truth of what the First Christians believed and thus why Jesus said, “Know the Truth and the Truth shall set You Free.” Truth is “external” not “internal” e.g., there is NO your truth vs my truth.

            We have many wonderful former Protestant Ministers entering the Church today and in fact run most of the Catholic EWTN, st Gabriel Radio stations. I’ve been tracking them what brings them in and find they all have one thing in common–they have all read the early Church Fathers so they know what Jesus taught, and they follow the laws of Logic “opposites cannot be true at the same time,” e.g.
            Episcopal” (Jesus approved of Gay marriage) – Anglican – (Jesus does not approved of Gay marriage) “Presbyterian” – (Jesus ate crackers and grape juice at the Last Supper) vs “Coptic” (Jesus gave us His Body Blood Soul and Divinity at the Last Supper under the appearances of Bread and Wine)

          • Julie

            They have no witness of anybody living the new life of Christ’s death and resurrection…where are the protestants at that time of the Early Church fathers?….

            Again great answer.

          • The really slim shady

            Jesus gave us His divinity?
            Thats a new one for me.

            From the very beginning of Christianity theres been all sorts of ideologies.
            As the Bible itself shows, there was false prophets even at the time of the disciples.

            Its perfectly reasonable to come to the conclusion that not everybody heralded as a church father was honestly a Christian.
            Youre right, Jesus said know the truth and the truth will set you free.
            He also said that He IS the way, the Truth, and the life.
            He also said, if the Son has set you free, you are free indeed.

            To know Jesus is to know Truth. And knowing Jesus is what sets us free from the bondage of sin. Its got absolutely nothing to do with the church “fathers” and everything to do with the state of ones heart.

            Following the laws of logic? Thats comical to me.

          • Woody

            Dumb, the people ordained by St John and St Paul and St Peter were false prophets?– he does not read them because, he is afraid to Know the Truth as Scott Hahn and Michael Cumbie did, both saying “Wow we are in the wrong church.” He sports the right name, shady.

          • The really slim shady

            All the Church Fathers were ordained by Paul and Peter?
            Some of them didnt live till much later. Interesting.

            I love how Catholics are so proud of the Protestants that join the RCC, but fail to realize that people leave the RCC as well.

            Its just politics. “Were right, youre wrong”.

            Woody, another fitting name.

          • Woody

            Happy Chair of St Peter Day to all

          • Julie

            They don’t even realize we have heard the Word of God at every Mass since the beginning….just like Christ’s followers did.

            Christ never passed out bible books.

            Great great reply.

          • Julie

            There are 2,865 Catholic doctrines…and if you begin to read them, you begin to acquire context and understanding of what awe truly believe.

          • Woody

            Kind of agree; “interpretations” from VAT II were questionable. E.g. one Church I go to bring Mary out of the trunk in May then then back into the box in June???
            My Church is beautiful and is Heaven on Earth (a Dominican parish)–
            Mary on the left; Joseph on the right; Jesus in the middle (the Holy Family present at all times) the box for sinners there with the priest in Persona Christi there before and after every Mass; the Body and Blood Soul and Divinity present at all times with the “red lamp” indicating it. Good priests and nuns everywhere, along with brothers, monks. and just a dab of incense and holy water and chrism.

          • Woody

            Since there is ONE God only if two persons say they serve the same God it has to be One; however this does not mean both are serving the one God for one is known by their works…see for instance God’s Commandment “Thou Shalt not Kill.” It will tell you if that person is following the One True God or not.

          • The really slim shady

            I agree with you.
            Muslims don’t serve Jehovah, they serve Allah.

            That’s why i find it strange that the Catholic Catechism would say that they and the Muslims “together” “adore the one, merciful God”.

          • Woody

            Only if there is One (and there is); Who else would it be? But I’m not a Muslim and don’t care what they believe. If it is my God, I don’t think they follow His tenets, do you. I will not lose any sleep over it.

          • The really slim shady

            I have no beef with Muslims claiming they serve the same God as us, which they do, which would be very simple to do if you dont really know our God.

            I only have a problem with a supposedly Christian organization making that claim.

            I wont lose sleep over it either, as i am secure in my own salvation, yet i will use any opportunity i have to show the truth.

        • Julie

          It is not proper to go into a mosque and begin preaching Jesus Christ. St. Francis of Assisi went to the Muslims to preach to them, and was only able to explain the faith to a sultan.

          Again, his interfaith dialogue is working with those who seek wisdom, reason and intellect, not domination and carnal pleasure as the end all.

          • “St. Francis of Assisi went to the Muslims to preach to them, and was only able to explain the faith to a sultan.”

            Yes, Julie, I actually did see a video presentation titled St. Francis & the Sultan. This was an “Interfaith Dialogue” meeting conducted by St. Francis of Assisi Catholic Church on Sept. 13, 2013, in San Antonio, TX. There were Muslim representatives there who gave a short talk before the presentation and invited the attendees to visit the nearby mosque as part of this gathering. However, during the presentation, the narrator stated that Muslims worship the same God as Christians. When the video presentation was over, I raised my hand and was recognized to ask a question. I stood up in front of the groups and read the following verse from the Quran:

            “…the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!” (Qur’an, 9:30)
            Then I asked, “if Allah is going to curse Christians for believing that Jesus is The Son of God, how can it be possible that we are worshipping the same God?”
            There was silence in the room and the Catholic Sister that was helping to conduct the presentation immediately ended the meeting and said, “With that, let’s all move on and go visit the mosque.”
            She didn’t answer the question.

          • Julie

            Of course she wouldn’t because it stumped her and was taken out of context.

            I was considering becoming a secular Franciscan and still have a number of books by those who witnessed St. Francis.

            Please…don’t go there…don’t malign St. Francis and his character.

            Francis only dialogued with the sultan. It is said the Sultan called for him and Francis sent two friars to be with him and Christianized him privately at his death.

        • Julie

          Again…you are putting too much into this without perspective.

          Nature and mission of the Church would be good study for you as it was for me.

          • Yes, Julie, I understand what you mean, however, the nature and mission of the Church is to tell the Gospel Truth. Even Jesus said that the truth would be offensive and that we would be hated for our faith in Him. In other words, Jesus was never politically-correct when He proclaimed, ” I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life, and No Man Cometh Unto The Father But By Me.” (John 14:6)
            🙂

          • Julie

            You don’t think we come to Christ at Mass??? If people were not, they would have left a long time ago.

            And Catholics are hated … for being Catholic in this country.

            If you continue to look at what Walid is providing, especially what happened in former Catholic Mexico, once into pagan ritualistic paganism, among the worst in the world…you may begin to understand the reactions of your family leaving the Church there..if I understand correctly…they were profoundly betrayed and know where heresy goes…the destruction of believers, the family and the return into paganism which we are witnessing in both Mexico and Europe…only to be punished by Islam or the return of sadistic human sacrifice..granted, such process taking so many hundreds of years.

            The Catholic’s first vocation is the life of holiness found in communion with the Holy Trinity.

            The second is to relieve the sufferings of others.

            The nature of the Church is very different. Very vast. Already being prepared in the Old Testament…get a Catholic Catechism to discover and just see how many designations there are of what it means to be ‘Church’….1.5 pages of lines of references.

            When we are in Christ, and not in mortal sin, we are in the Church. When we are in grave sin, we are no longer in the Church and cannot participate in the fullness of the Lord and His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity and if we do so, we are committing sacrilege…a worse sin.

            The Church is drawing solely on the Word Made Flesh. It is not the Vatican or pope or whatever that gives the Church its power but Christ alone.

            Without Christ there is no Church.

            So we must have a sacramental confession to be restored to the Eucharist.

            We may be standing still in our pew at Mass, the first step into heaven here on earth…but with each other the Lord is drawing us closer to Him as individuals and as Church each day through His sacred assembly on earth.

            We all offer our entire lives at the Offertory at Mass….and this offering of ourselves with the bread and wine is through Christ made acceptable to the Father.

            I may feel alone when I go into the church for Mass. But when I leave, I am full of his love and life, no longer alone but connected with those around me, and those of His creation.

            And my final response is my eagerness to go out and serve Him wherever He is in my daily duty and life.

            Service Him in the spiritual and corporal works of mercy and leaving my comfort zone, embracing the Cross.

            So where is the lack of the Lord in this? How much closer can we get to Him but through the Nourishment of His very person??? And not the way that makes us self righteous…but makes us friends and fellow servants to those in need, nothing to brag or exalt of self. Nothing of self but all of the Lord, praise be to Him!!

          • Hi Julie. Question…
            The Lie of Replacement Theology: Is Your Church Part of This?

            http://grandmageri422.me/2016/02/06/the-lie-of-replacement-theology-is-your-church-part-of-this/

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Mike – don’t you have a Catechism? I assumed you did since you so often quote from it – or are you simply picking one thing out of the Catechism while omitting the rest of its teaching?

          • DanlBoone

            feint and dodge.. not a well thought out argument on your part.

            what’s Rome charging for ‘indulgences,’ so called, these days?

            what do you like best about Rome’s antisemitic theology?

            did you pray to Mary today? if so, why?

          • Julie

            You know…if you were in a public place going about…you could be sued for libel.

            The Church never taught people they had to pay their way into heaven and we still have them. This year is a jubilee year wtih indulgences.

            What the problem was the behavior of Dominican Fr Tetzel…German priest, who was out of line in his zeal.

            The Council of Trent reformed all and it took them atleast 11 years to complete as they were living in times of war.

            But…I doubt this answer means anything…you just come back more to nip.

            You are not looking for answers.

          • Woody

            Yes, he has all the heresies down pat even centuries old which have been refuted millions of times.

          • Julie, are you not aware?

            A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. ( 1 Corinthians 5:6; Galatians 5:9 )

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Is this your answer? Why don’t you know whether the Church teaches ‘replacement’ theology? In case you don’t know, the CHURCH was the eternal plan of God – and the CHURCH is the fulfillment of Israel – the full Davidic Kingdom – all of Israel. The Church existed in the OT – if you have eyes that see and ears to hear – the CHURCH is the assembling to offer sacrifice.

          • Yes, Julie, that is my answer. Catechism 841 by itself places the RCC in a questionable situation.
            Also, God is not finished with the nation of Israel yet. While the spiritual Church is comprised of Jews, Gentiles and all who, by faith, accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, prophecy is still unfolding for Israel and the Jewish people. The coming Millennial Reign of Christ on earth will be God’s fulfilled Promise to His Chosen People. That is when the full Davidic Kingdom is in place, with Christ ruling with a rod of iron from Jerusalem.

          • racarrera

            Replacement theology is Protestant. There was one covenant, and it is through Holy Israel, the Church, that it continues. The Jews lost all as a religion when they turned on Christ and His Church.

          • According to racarrera, “The Jews lost all as a religion when they turned on Christ and His Church.”

            Hmmm…Anti-Semitism, much?

          • Trevor

            He was quoting from the Early Church Father Barnabas.

          • Thanks for clearing that up, Trevor. However, just the comment
            that Rudy stated: “The Jews lost all as a religion when they turned on Christ and His Church.” Sure sounds like the foundation to Replacement Theology.
            Point is, “Christianity” is still Jewish in origin, being Messianic by the fulfillment of the appearing of Jesus as Messiah; just not the Messiah ben David that Orthodox wanted to see. As you know, the first several thousand people who accepted Jesus were ALL Jews. Those Jews did not lose their religion. On the other hand, while the Orthodox leaders were skeptical and, with Rome, had Christ crucified, this was still all in God’s Plan of Salvation.
            The Jews did not “lose everything as a religion” ; they actually gained the True Way to Salvation in Jesus, as prophesied, and this was then opened up to the Gentiles.

          • Trevor

            Not quite. First, we have to consider the Romans epistle that clearly shown there were and continue to be Jews who flat out reject Jesus. Second, we need to consider how Simon bar Koba was touted by a rabbi to be the fulfillment of the Messiah prior to the Siege of Jerusalem. Justin Martyr wrote about this and showed how Simon bar Koba tried to get Christians to blaspheme Christ and follow Koba. Third, the Jews actually caused the Spanish Inqusition by spreading rumors that Catholics were forcibly converting the Jews when the truth, upon investigation, revealed that only a handful were forced conversion and were graciously allowed to return to Judaism.

            In the Romans epistle, Paul demonstrated that the Jews were broken off from the olive tree and the Gentiles were grafted in. This was done to fulfill ancient prophecies where God said He would be found among those who did not know Him. This was done to demonstrate that God is not a respecter of persons. There is also another reason – to provoke the Jews to jealousy so they would return to God.

            The modern nation of Israel do not even have a king. That’s because Jesus is the Eternal King in fulfillment of God promise to David that there would always be someone to sit on his throne forever. The Jews today, generally, do not believe Jesus as the Messiah. However, even from the day of the Pentecost to today, there have been Jews who came into the Church.

            God’s plan of salvation include the Jews and they need the Gospel just as Muslims and Yizids do.

            I agree with your one point – the Church are heavily based on Judaism and this I can easily see in the Mass.

          • There has always been a Jewish “Remnant” continuing to this day which would be the Messianic Jews. They accept and know that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah who came as the Suffering Servant, fulfilled the way of Salvation for the Jews and Gentiles and will return to establish His Millennial Kingdom, ruling as Messiah ben David.

            Meanwhile, the Orthodox Jews who flat out rejected Jesus then and to this day are actually preparing for the construction of the Third Temple. Some believe it will be within the near future. The anticipation is that it will be Messiah ben David who will make that happen and to be King of Israel, as prophesied, and where Jerusalem is the center of world worship. I don’t really see that as their “losing all” as their religion, however, according to prophecy, the Orthodox will be deceived by antichrist prior to the Second Advent of Christ.

          • Trevor

            It won’t be just Orthodox Jews who will be deceived. It will include, if it were possible, even the elect.

          • Correct. However, also note the qualifier in the verse: “if it were possible, even the elect.”
            That means those who know the Truth and are saved through faith in Jesus Christ will NOT be deceived, but that the deception would be so great that it would have deceived them had they not discerned the deception at hand.

          • Woody

            The weakness here is that no one not even the great St Paul knew he was saved through faith in Jesus Christ, saying “we work out our Salvation in “Fear and Trembling.” Someone who KNOWS they are saved would have NO Fear.
            How many are saved “whoever perseveres to the end is the key”
            Just as one can commit sin on his or her deathbed thus losing their salvation, one can also be saved in their very last breath–let’d take the hard talking, hard drinking John Wayne who said “my whole life I have been up to neck in these Catholic; 3 days as he was dying with severe pain with cancer, he said, “the only people I have seen in my life are truly happy are Catholics–so he called a priest and asked for the sacrament of the Last Rites (used to be called Extreme Unction) which he received so his chances of being saved was maximized. Even then only God knows.

          • Woody, you believe in Jesus but you aren’t sure whether you are saved or not?

          • Julie

            Again you are forgetting…He will be the cause of the rising and falling away of the House of Israel.

            Are you paraphrasing him?

            He was not referring to the first Church of Jerusalem which was Jewish and all those Jews who accepted the Lord.

            Go to Hebrew Catholic. There was an essay out awhile back on Replacement Theology. No, we do not believe in Replacement theology.

            Go to fulfilled Jews to find your answer.

          • Hi Julie. I looked up info about “Hebrew Catholics” and also found out that they, as Catholic-Jews, believe that Jesus will be setting up His Kingdom in Rome, instead of Jerusalem.
            Is that what the RCC claims?
            In fact, here is the synopsis of a book written about that very claim which is authored by Taylor R. Marshall.
            ————————————————————————–
            “Read this book if you have ever wondered why the Catholic Church specifically claims to be Roman? It would seem that the Church of Jesus Christ would be centered in Jerusalem, the capital of the Jews, since Christ died and rose again in
            Jerusalem. Catholic theologian Taylor Marshall, Ph.D. provides a layman’s account of how Christ chose the Rome as an instrument of redemption for the nations. Beginning with the Old Testament prophets, Dr. Marshall explains how
            the Messiah would come and assume reign over the nations through the Roman Empire. This book provides an exciting and popular account establishing Rome as ‘the Eternal City’ of Christ the King.”

            The Eternal City: Rome & the Origins of Catholic Christianity Paperback – November 26, 2012, by Taylor R. Marshall (Author)
            ————————————————————————-
            So, Is this true? Do you as a Catholic believe that the “Eternal City” where Christ sets up His Kingdom on earth will be Rome and not Jerusalem? Yes, or No.

          • Trevor

            Which is better- the earthly Jerusalem that have changed hands since the Fall of Jerusalem in 70AD and eventually recaptured by the Israeli military in 1967 or the heavenly Jerusalem, the city that Abraham was searching for, whose builder and maker is God?

          • According to Bible Prophecy, the Second Advent of Jesus will literally establish His Millennial Reign on this very earth from Jerusalem and rule as Messiah ben David. After the 1000 years and final battle where Satan and all evil is defeated once and for all, a new Heaven and new earth will be the eternal reward for those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. That one is the best.

          • Trevor

            I asked which was better – the earthly Jerusalem or the heavenly Jerusalem, and instead, I get the condensed version of Protestant interpretation of the end time. Catholic and Orthodox both reject the literal millennium reign as they demonstrate daily in the reciting of the Creed, in which the lines say, “He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His kingdom will have no end.” His kingdom will have no end.

            So, I am more concerned with preparing myself for the Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ than whether there will be a literal millennial reign or not. What happens after the Glorious Appearing remains vague at best, therefore, the best thing as Christians to do is to daily prepare ourselves for the tribulation that is coming, confessing our sins, doing good (charity), enduring the tribulation and holding fast to the faith, and looking for the blessed hope assured of the Glorious Appearing.

          • Agreed, Trevor; when we are walking in faith and spiritual fellowship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, we will be prepared for being with Him at any moment and receiving the Blessed Hope that He has promised all who are His.
            However, the Bible is quite clear, both in Old Testament and New Testament Prophecy, about the Millennial Reign on earth which will be God’s Fulfilled Promise to the Jewish people and nation of Israel. 🙂

          • Woody

            I’ve always said the only End time I worry about is mine; hopefully, I will not be here for the Biblical one.

          • “whose builder and maker is God” is the better one.

            You see, had you asked this question, even when I was lost. I would choose this answer. Most do not seek truth Trevor.

          • Trevor

            I once saw a bumper sticker that said, “Wise men still seek Him.”

            What then is Truth? The most obvious answer is Jesus. Yet Jesus left us the Church to carry on Jesus’ command to baptize in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and to teach all that Christ have command.

          • Woody

            No one cares, a minor point. Unless it is in the Majesterium it is not dogma.

          • Hey there, Woody. Actually, I was asked to learn about the Hebrew Catholics and that’s what I did. It appears they believe Rome is the “Eternal City” and not Jerusalem. First, I would say that could certainly be considered on its way to being “Replacement Theology” – and, second: I would like to know if this is taught in the Catholic Church as well? Just askin’…okay?

          • Woody

            Yes, no replacement Theology; I was educated by the Jesuits and the subject was never broached; so never heard in in any Catholic school. [also had grade school and high school Catholic education – subject never broached either] my professor spoke 14 languages fluently in Philosophy … he was probably one of the least educated or like Fr Pacua on EWTN–piker only speaks 13 languages fluently.
            As I said, if it were in the Majesterium it would bother me but I doubt it. So I understand

          • Okay, great. Thanks, Woody, I appreciate your reply.
            God Bless.

          • Julie

            The eternal city is what ancient Rome was called.

            and we receive the Eucharist that provides us Eternal Life. That is the context.

            Christ’s kingdom is in our hearts.

            In Scripture, Christ gave Peter the power to bind and loosen, to administrate and minister through the Blood. So Rome has primacy.

            SS Peter and Paul went to Rome solely for the ecclesia, however the Orthodox Church developed differently because it was almost completely annihilated by the last Roman Emperor in 302, worst persecution. So the Orthodox also have their faith and religion as part of their national identity. Thus it has imperialistic intentions along with that of the Ecclesia. Subsequently, Rome represents the universal church, the Vatican is a state of its own that works solely for the Lord and not of this world, for the welfare of all people.

            There is an association within the Church that is for political/perception issues, is not based at the Vatican. But it can verify through its accounting that the Catholic Church is the greatest contributor to humanity, gives more aid to those in need than any country, including the USA.

            This in itself demonstrates how universality is partially lived out, — beyond our main quest to enter into communion of the Holy Trinity, this transcendent faith that exists outside of national boundaries, ethnicity, denominationalism — uniting us to the Lord and with each other throughout the world.

            About the comment regarding Hebrew Catholics, as a protestant you look at things in isolated fragments and make them convey something that is not meant.

            I cannot help you with that.

            You have to go back and start with the Catechism Begin with the Prologue that gives you perspective on everything else. Look up the part on Sacred Scripture and see that we don’t fragment the Word of God because then we are fragmenting the living Lord speaking to us through His Word.

            Sorry I cannot help you.

          • Hi, Julie, thank you for your reply and explanation. Yes, Rome has been called the “Eternal City” since ancient times when it was under paganism. It was declared that this city would go on for eternity.

            However, on the flip-side, Jerusalem is called the City of The Great King in the Bible. There are numerous references to that but here are just a few:

            Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. (Psalm 48:2)

            But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
            (Matthew 5:34-35)

            But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Galatians 4:26)

            Jerusalem during the Millennial Reign:

            There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early. (Psalm 46:4-5)

          • Julie

            Yes and we do see Jerusalem as the City of the Great King as well.

            We look forward to enduring in the Lord, being more purified by Him, and hope we are all together in the New Jerusalem, you included.

          • 🙂
            By the way, Julie: Happy Valentine’s Day to you!

          • Woody

            When the Christians were in hiding for 3.8 Centuries – in the beginning the Romans especially wanted to find Peter (the Head of the Church) and so Peter and his flock– (the other Apostles) used a code name for Rome which is in one of Peter’s Letters Greetings from BABYLON. (SO THE Romans would not find him)

          • Thanks, Woody. This brings up another scenario:
            If Islam becomes the religious/governmental system of the end times, as it is looking so right now, then perhaps Rome will play an integral part of the plan, since Muslims have vowed to overtake Rome. Reportedly there are already plans to have one of the largest mosques built there that will overshadow the Vatican. There is one theory that antichrist’s system will have three (3) seats of power and possibly Rome as being the world center of government (Sharia). Whatever happens, though, is all in God’s Plan and things will unfold according to His Divine Will. We just all need to be prayerfully and spiritually ready and in fellowship with Our Lord Jesus at all times, no matter what events take place in this world. 🙂

          • Woody

            Good post. And why one of my favorite prayers is from St. Teresa of Avila:
            “Let nothing disturb you,
            Let nothing frighten you,
            All things are passing away:
            God never changes.
            Patience obtains all things
            Whoever has God lacks nothing;
            God alone suffices.”

            She is a fiesty one; once she got all dressed up to go to a wedding; got into her bucking bronco and a storm started and pitched her out into a ditch where she was all muddy and wet-she looked up at Heaven, shook her fist and said “Tis no wonder you have so few friends.” Thus God does have a sense of humor.
            God Bless

          • Julie

            I think you misread the article…they don’t talk like that. They are affirming simply the primacy of Peter.

          • Woody

            The Catholic Church did not name itself the “Roman” Catholic Church–and does not prefer it today. This was done by Protestants to try and limit the claim the Church as being “Universal” [Catholic-Greek] where they thought if they could add the term “Roman” it would show Jesus’ Church as “Limited” vs “Unlimited”. This can be proved easily by visiting the letter (extant 107AD) by St Ignatius of Antioch (3rd Bishop after Peter (1st Bishop) when Iggy renamed the Church from “The People of the Way” to the “Catholic” Church pointing to Rome. I was never brought up under “Roman” Catholic or have I ever heard any of my friends ever say they were “Roman” Catholic since we are “American” Catholics. That is why I have always been confused by blacks calling themselves “African” American when they have never been to Africa/??

          • O shucks, I liked “Roman”.

            How about RCC, Royal Crown Cola, is that out too?

          • Woody

            Peter as 1st Bishop of Antioch simply moved his SEE from Antioch to Rome because Rome was the “center” of the then world, and he used a code name to hide his whereabouts from the Romans who were out to kill him (Babylon) is code name.

          • racarrera

            The words of a coward. Not surprising. Take up your alleged anti-Semitism with Jesus, St John, St Steven and the Church Fathers, and further, quit playing the role of a Jew when you’re merely a Protestant who loves yarmulkes and depriving yourself of pork and shellfish. Going back to dietary restrictions makes you look like a racist, as a real Jew wouldn’t dare eat with a Christian, right?

          • Julie

            Here we go again….one of those…he refuses to look at the catechism, refuses to study what the Hebrew Catholics are doing on their site.

          • racarrera

            I won’t take time with Halloween Jews who can’t be bothered to see that Christ made all things good.

          • Julie

            Yes…He made all things good. And it was said as He lay on the Cross, that He rose all things up to Himself.

          • racarrera: “Going back to dietary restrictions makes you look like a racist, as a real Jew wouldn’t dare eat with a Christian, right?”

            Hmm…you mean similar to Peter and Barnabus? 🙂

            “When Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.” (Galatians 2:11-13) NIV

          • Julie

            No.

            Again, GET A CATECHISM!! There is so much written on the Jews and Israel.

          • Julie

            Go to Hebrew Catholic and find the answer. Or the catechism.

            Don’t bother Catholics with such now that we know you. You are not truly seeking the truth what we believe.

          • Julie

            I read Hebrew Catholics on this error a few months ago.

            You should subscribe to them.

          • DanlBoone

            so, evidently, you believe that the Roman [versus the biblical] Mary is a ‘Co-Redemptrix’ with Christ the Lord..

            that’s egregious error of the first stripe with regard to the gospel of Christ.

          • Woody

            Lay a picture of Mary down on your left; then lay a picture of Jesus down on your right. Then think, see if you can have one without the other? Pretty simple, not complex.

          • DanlBoone

            neither is it sound theology.. if this invented Roman Mary plays a part in your salvation, you are profoundly confused.

          • Woody

            Return to school for some basic math:

            f / No Mary – No Jesus – No Salvation (for most this is a simple equation; for you maybe a struggle but stay with it–sleep with it tonight and pray)

          • DanlBoone

            you probably think that you’re making some sort of argument.. for what?

            for the Roman Mary to play some part in your salvation?

            or do you even know what you’re trying to say? I’m not calling you stupid; I’m saying unequivocally, that the Roman Marianism is anti Christian. I’m talking specifically about Roman doctrine, critically, and unequivocally..

            God has no Mother, neither is there a ‘Queen of Heaven,’ nor a ‘Co-Redemptrix’ in the Bible.

          • Woody

            Return to school – get an education – and then come back. I learned that math in the 3rd grade

          • DanlBoone

            what is the gospel that saves you, Woody?

          • Woody

            My daily reception of Jesus Body and Blood; no closer relationship than having Jesus melt in one’s blood stream. Thank You, Jesus for such a Blessing.

          • Julie

            I have been going down look at your posts and they sneer…

            You think you are God judging and condemning other people.

          • Julie

            The guy is beginning to creep me out with his profound ignorance and arrogance..wonder what kind of sect he is into…swampy…are you following me here?

          • Woody

            Yes, he may be with the Beyonce and Jim Carrey crowd; it is hard to tell at this stage as his beliefs are so miscarried.

          • The only references about the “Queen of Heaven” in the Bible are found in the following verses of Jeremiah and in the context of idol worship that provokes God to anger:

            “The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that
            they may provoke me to anger.” Jeremiah 7:18 (KJV)
            Also: Jeremiah 44:17-19; 44:25

          • Woody

            Not everything is in the Bible; – the Incarnation is not; the Trinity is not; the Didache is not, St Joseph’s death is not, which is why Scott Hahn Brilliant minister switched to Catholicism when he found out “Sola Scriptura” is not in the Bible itself (Scott had once hated Catholicism) and now is one of the most respected Theologians in Jesus Church. He recognized Sola as just another of Luther’s heresies. St Paul told Timothy to “listen to the Church…” (not interpret scripture himself), and to follow “tradition” too.

          • Julie

            The Church herself crowned Mary.

            It did not pull a bible out on the altar and crown it.

          • Woody

            Correct, the Church of Jesus has full authority to crown Mary, and Jesus gave it this authority ‘Whatsoever you BIND on earth I SHALL BIND in Heaven; whatsoever you LOOSE on earth I SHALL LOOSE in Heaven.” No greater AUTHORITY than this exists.

          • Julie

            The contradiction is that they want to follow their own personal opinion and then reduce our faith down to a textbook, making it state what they want…and it is a bad fruit of sacrilege, blasphemy, vanity, self righteousness, and they are not looking for answers but to slur with questions that don’t seek truth.

          • Julie

            Religio means to bind, to look up in Latin. Only one true religion: Fulfilled Judaism…you know what I am inferring…………

          • Julie

            Shallow shallow self serving thinking.

            The Church crowned Mary queen of heaven. She works with the Lord, but never takes His place because she is not God.

            You have alot to detox from your preacher men and alot to learn in Scripture and the Church.

          • Woody

            From your own Theology: Adam Harnack, Protestant’s finest; “Do not listen to protestants for they are prejudiced. In fact, I’ll go further–they are BLIND.”

          • DanlBoone

            What is the gospel? Can you tell me?

          • Woody

            Pretty basic as Found in Jesus One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church “to love one’s neighbor as ourselves” basic message of many

          • DanlBoone

            no.. that’s not the gospel… the “Royal Law,” perhaps, or the “Golden Rule”.. but it’s not the gospel..

            notwithstanding, I appreciate your boldness to at least try and express what you actually believe.

          • Julie

            How much education do you have? Stop wasting time.

            You have no intention of wanting to learn what we believe but go about with your bigotry.

            Get a Catholic bible and look at the gospels.

          • Woody

            You have NO credibility – your name is NOT listed in Scripture so you have NO authority any more than Simon Magus and his name is Listed in Scripture.

          • Julie

            Don’t waste your time.

          • Julie

            Invented?

            No it sounds like individuals thinking they alone are taking the place of the Church.

            My in laws are from Philippines and the protestants there are 2%. They consider them of a different religion.

            If I were to go down any street, what is the name of the true church you belong to ? Do you shop around to find what suits you and your way of looking and interpreting things??

          • Woody

            More heresy–Mary was not “Roman” – at least get the basics right.

          • DanlBoone

            perhaps you prefer a Romanized ‘Mary’

          • Julie

            You are a lone ranger.

            The Church was in the making already in the Old Testament.

            Christ did not walk out of a desert. God could have allowed the Messiah to simply come to us.

            How did the Archangel address Mary?….Full of grace.

            She is the transmitter in union with the Holy Spirit Who were the means to bring Christ into the world.

            Do you personally know of any good women in your life who could take her place instead?

            Do you know what true sanctity is???

            Co means to work with. Latin.

            Co does not mean equal or of the same substance.

            check out the Nicene Creed professed at all Masses and mainline denominational churches, Anglican and Lutheran.

          • Julie

            You obviously don’t know the meaning of Latin roots. Get some basic education and then come back. You are making a fool of yourself and have no intention what soever to listen to answers people give you.

            You are wasting your time that could be better spent serving Our Lord.

          • DanlBoone

            Walid came out of Islam; I came out of Rome.

            When I asked you what is the gospel that saves you, it wasn’t a slur, nor a silly game of one-upsmanship; neither was it insincere, nor for my own benefit.

            Neither is your vitriol an honest answer.

            I’m not questioning your salvation, I’m asking for your ready defense of it.. making personal slurs toward me isn’t even intellectually genuine; although, emotionally, I’m sure that it’s authentic.

            It’s an honest question.. for the most part, the only response I can discern from yourself and few others, is that the gospel that saves you is some convoluted iteration of: “Rome. Rome is the gospel that saves me and condemns you.”

            which is grievous error.

            in all fairness, many a professed ‘theologian’ on either side of Rome is hard-pressed to answer the most simple, the most dynamic, and the most unequivocally exclusive question, regarding the fidelity of Christ, eg, Christianity.

            no?

            some would obfuscate the issue by responding in some voluminous tome, borrowed or copied from the Scripture.. which, to my mind, isn’t too far removed from the Greeks at Mars Hill with their “unkown [G]od”.. making many words of it in order to cover all their bases, so to speak.

            It isn’t like I asked you if can offer the gospel in 10 words or less..which is quite doable.. I simply ask as one Christian to another, what is the gospel that saves you [and me]?

            If I tell you that, ‘I am a protestant;’ that is not [NOT] the same things as saying, ‘I am a Christian.’

            Similarly with yourself. If you say to me, “I am a Catholic,” you have not told me that you are a Christian.

            Moreover, if my protestantism, or your Catholicism, exert a retrograde, an impediment to our relationship with the living God, in the Person of His Son–[which I claim that these things do unequivocally defile that relationship by way of counterfeiting the very gospel itself, substituting religiosity for the fidelity of Christ]–then these things are abominable before the Lord.

            does anything I’m saying make any sense to you at all?

          • Julie

            Sorry you are a protestor….your question right that indicates that we don’t follow the gospel.

            Why do people go to Mass on Sunday? Can you answer? Do you know anything about the history of the Church because you obsess on Rome like alot of American protestants.

            Protest.

            So I don’t bother because you are also coming across that you have Christ and we don’t and you don’t even know anyone to make such a comment so it shows you are not as full of Christ as you think you are.

            There are alot like you.

            Pride cometh before the fall…virtue hides itself.

          • DanlBoone

            so I take it that you don’t know what the gospel is.

          • Julie

            Waiting to hear that from you because I am a Catholic.

          • DanlBoone

            true.

          • I take it that you should be looking for a fire-hidred to pee on little labrador. Leave people alone. Good bye.

          • DanlBoone

            oh, so I guess asking someone what informs their lively hope of eternal life is an illegal question in your mind..

            I wonder why that is.

            What is the gospel that saves you, Mr. Shoebat?

          • He is trying to taunt you. Ignore him and he will soon flee. Guaranteed.

          • Julie

            Yes. I have to wear the shield of faith better to guard my heart…in real life I have been very open with all kinds of people.

          • Woody

            Yes, it is so obvious when some men cannot stand being topped by a woman especially one who knows the bible better than them. It is sexist.

          • “‘I am a protestant;’ that is not [NOT] the same things as saying, ‘I am a Christian.'”

            You ARE a Protestant. Live with it. Harness it. Accept it. Just leave people alone.

          • Julie

            I have met many fine Christians who are not Catholic and we share our faith with each other.

            People read my posts here and some sound harsh…but if they could meet me in person…………

            I just can sense now when they are setting me up. Still aggravates…so I have alot to grow in grace to let go.

          • “I am a Catholic,” you have not told me that you are a Christian.”

            The other side can argue “”I am a Proetstant,” you have not told me that you are a Christian.”

            You are here to simply harass Catholic. You will not brig an honest discussion. So go away.

          • DanlBoone

            no.. I came here to read about Islam atrocities which aren’t widely reported. I encountered your indictment of “the Evangelical movement”.. all postured in a papist posture on your part.

            and you said:

            “The other side can argue “”I am a Protestant,” you have not told me that you are a Christian.”

            __
            which is what I already said. That’s why I’ve tried to put religiosity aside and focus on the gospel–which we should [should] have in common..

            but, I haven’t found any common ground. No one has told me what is the gospel that saves us. Most didn’t reply, or just spit in my eye, so to speak.

            One individual referred to the golden rule, another copy/pasted from a Roman source..

            if you think that asking a professed Catholic what is the gospel that saves us is harassment, then I don’t know what to tell you. you’re simply wrong.

            I’d read your site before, and admired your efforts–I had no idea that you were running a Roman Catholic site attacking evangelical Christians..

            leaves me blinkin’ like a toad in hailstorm over here. you can go ahead and ban me if that’s what you’re inclined to do; I wouldn’t care.. that’s your business.

            I had no idea of your animosity toward non-Roman Christians.. it’s a real surprise.. a real disappointment.

          • racarrera

            The Guest is a hemorrhoid. Nothing more.

          • Woody

            How, about hearing ALL that Jesus said, (to Peter when He founded His Church upon Him: I will be with you until the End of Days. (not here yet unless I slept through it) and “Whatsoever you BIND on earth I SHALL BIND IN HEAVEN; whatsoever you LOOSE upon earth I SHALL LOOSE IN HEAVEN.” – No greater AUTHORITY than this exists in the world.

          • Hi Woody. Jesus gave that authority to all His Disciples, not just to Peter. Please read Matthew 18:1-20. Here, believers are also told that wherever two or more gather in His Name, He will be there among them (spiritually) and the help we receive and answers to petitions we ask are all from The Lord, according to His Divine Will for us and the situation at hand. Jesus told the Disciples that they had to be “converted” in order to be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Converted, is what happened to the Apostle Paul when he had a one-on-one experience with the Risen Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. All must have that personal one-on-one conversion with Christ in order to be called a Child of God. This is what it means to be “Born Again” as Jesus said one must be. (John 3:1-8)

          • Julie

            Again…you also have to include Tradition in your understanding. We never hold Scripture out there alone. It is always united with the Church. The apostles and successors developed methods of evangelization.

            I answered you prior that we have to come to the first base..dialogue.

            And I think presenters, now in the climate we live in, need to be more clear in how they present the faith.

            Not all religions are equal. What they are referring to is when it is not the person’s fault, and is not catechized or evangelized to, but still can see God in reason and nature, then follows the good will of God we all follow.

            And Confucius also could see the commandments pertaining to one’s neighbor. But it was only to the Jews that God revealed Himself…and the Decalogue defined this in the first 3 commandments pertaining to Himself. So Confucius is not to be blamed because there were no missionaries to him.

            He is the one who brought about the veneration of the family vs those who were Chinese pagan and sensual and singular.

        • Julie

          We have been warned against false prophets every time the reading comes up at Mass and the priest gives a homily.

          Do you know we cover the bible through 3 cycles…it takes 3 years. That is if someone were to go to daily Mass for that amount of time.

          We learn Scripture by listening and then receiving the Eucharist Who then gives us the understanding of the Word…just like what happened at Emmaus.

          If you go to NewAgeIslam.com, there is an article from Muslims that are saying Francis is helping them to remove violence and take on reason and common humanity. This must be the fruit of the offering of the martyrs who died for Christ.

          The world is very small and now the world is witnessing first hand the brutality of Islam.

          The Church has always said that dialogue with Islam is impossible. All we can do is start and the first step and affirm common beliefs.

          Of course, once you get beyond God is Creator….even that is understood differently in the Muslim thinking but it is a start, and he has venerated…that one single concept and dimension of the one true God with his outer actions. We know that and can see that but fundamentalist Christians cannot and do not understand the sociological and anthropological issues in evangelizing people of different cultures.

          We have to begin with dialogue. And I know he was pained being in the Hagia Sophia but had to submit to their authority. I finished an art course on church structures and our instructor covered the time of Constantine, when the Church of Rome was poor and embattled by barbarians invading it. I had no idea his impact on art in Rome. And when we saw the Hagia Sophia…the Muslims are not allowed on the top floor to prevent them from being offended, you see the beautiful and sacred icons still on display.

          I spoke with a Greek Orthodox priest close by and he told me he is on same page for our reunification. But he said the Greek Orthodox in a way don’t want the Cathedral back because they cannot afford the upkeep.

          Then I heard that Putin wants to take it back and care for it.

          You have to understand what the Universal Church is, when it was founded and how it developed…..5 of us.

          Anyway, dialogue is how Our Lord spoke to many people and we must follow Him and not judge others by appearances.

    • Woody

      Define New World Order?
      Francis and Benedict know what they are doing–spreading the Gospel to ALL Nations;

      I met a Missionary at a funeral about a year ago and he told me his group alone handed out 18,000,000 Rosaries (YEARS 2012/13) — his domain– Africa. And it is bearing fruit:

      Most of these converts are MUSLIMS:
      As the number of regular churchgoers drops in Europe and the United States, the number of faithful in Africa has risen dramatically, greater here than anywhere else in 50 years. In Africa, between 1978 and 2007, the number of Catholics grew from 55 million to 146 million, according to the Vatican. A recent study by Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life show the continent’s Catholic population at more than 175 million.

      • (Woody) “Define New World Order?”

        Hey there Woody: The New World Order that many political and religious leaders appear to be working toward, as I interpret, would be the prophesied One World Government/One World Religion that will be headed up by the rule of the coming antichrist.

        Take a look and see how the United Nations Charter is structured, how Islamic countries have greater representation in the UN and how various Western governments (including the U.S.) are yielding to the demands of Muslims entering the host countries.

        I agree with Walid Shoebat that this is what we are seeing unfolding and that the Mahdi and Isa (the Islamic Jesus) are the antichrist and false prophet that the Bible warns of.

        Therefore, the New World Order is not one set up by the Biblical Jesus nor by “the Church” but is the next step in complete control of the world’s population by a system that has established a standardized rule of governance and even set up a religion for all to agree on. Those in opposition will be persecuted, imprisoned and/or killed for not going along with the program.

        For as much as Christians would like to see this world rebound and become more peaceful, the caveat is that things will get worse from here on before they get better.

        ——————————————————————————————
        “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

        Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
        (2 Thessalonians 2:2-4) ———————————————————-

        • Woody

          Yes, thanks. I asked because I see so many definitions of the New World Order, but now the way you see it I was picketing the UN in 1950 under Fr McMahon’s direction in Cleveland under the banner: “Get the UN OUT of the US AND the US OUT of the UN.” Few paid attention to us in those days. the UN I have always seen at the one who will promote the “Mark of the Beast.” which I believe is already being employed, some naive ladies having a “microchip” placed beneath the skin of their children having been persuaded “to help if their children get lost or stolen.” How stupid to allow this–I think it is in that 3rd World Country called California. But the way I also read this “it is a temporary time (not the End Times) and after this time is defeated there will be a period of a thousand years of beautiful religious peace, and after that–the DREADED End Times will resurface. I don’t pay much attention to the End Times since I only worry about MY End Times and my Last Judgement. And I have my Mom, Our Lady to help me with that. She is so sweet.

  • DeusLoVult

    One question….why the Jesuits? Why do they, above all other orders, receive this special contempt?

    • Tom_mcewen

      If the world hates you, remember it hated me first.

      • Woody

        So true and that is how you find the Church Christ founded.

    • Doc

      Reading the article I felt like I was reading one of the many conspiracy theories that blames the Jews for everything. Same thing, different set of idiots. People who are really after the truth know that our world is much more complicated than to be able to blame “the Illuminati” or “the Jesuits” or “the Jooz” for everything. It makes simpletons feel better that they have an easily identifiable enemy to blame for the world’s ills. Here’s a thought: blame Satan. ‘Nuff Said.

      • Mark T

        EXACTLY! Doc!

        My response to those who make such statements are this: “Well, then if they are controlling the world, then why is it falling apart? Why would Satan want to share power with others?”

      • racarrera

        You nailed it.

    • Woody

      The Jesuits are an Order of brilliant men and when formed, quickly went to where the heretics were and converted thousands back to the Church. They are still today noted for “educating” people. I am Jesuit educated and we all had to have an additional minor of philosophy much of it based on the early Greeks (Socrates and Aristotle) and St Thomas Aquinas. When Queen Elizabeth took office she especially took aim at them because they were converting so many back to Christ.

      • DeusLoVult

        Finally, someone answered my question. Thank you Woody. 🙂

      • Julie

        I grew up in Jesuit parishes, my daughter went to Jesuit high school and none of the crack pot stuff.

  • Ratliff

    Did the Illuminati force you to write this?

    • DeusLoVult

      Illuminati? Nonsense. It was aliens.

      • SuzyQ

        good one, Deus!

      • Tom_mcewen

        Right, can’t you see the Illuminati is the editor not the writer.

      • Marcos Filipe Guerra

        Dem eliens. They are behind everything I tell you.

        • Grandmere

          Those reptilian shape shifters with their headquarters at Dulce base.

          • Mark T

            And broadcasting live on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX news

          • Grandmere

            Oooooh! Good one.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Don’t forget CBN. in that list.

          • racarrera

            I’m convinced Tim LaHaye is a shapeshifter.

          • Mark T

            Male or female?

          • racarrera

            Good question. But I’m sure he’d try to use nunchakus for God on me.

          • Marcos Filipe Guerra

            Oh dear. Is that the secret base that everyone knows about?

      • racarrera
        • DeusLoVult

          lol 😀

          But….it WAS aliens!

          • racarrera

            So says Georgio. Whatever drugs he’s on, why isn’t he sharing?

          • Raph Sebastian

            Good ole Georgio, I am sure he thinks his hair was done by aliens too.

          • racarrera

            Or he stuck his finger in a socket.

    • Lidia

      If I were to explain the Illuminati from all that I have read-mostly conspiracy theories, it sure wouldn’t have anything to do with Walid. Illuminati are the left wing socialist/communist/globalists–that is one world order. That is how I would see it. They want to destroy religion, especially Christianity. This group wants to get rid of morals so they can control the people better. How? If a person has NO religion or morals, then he can be used to kill, rape and steal without feeling guilty. Illuminati wants more killers like this so they can control the people with fear. This is how the NAZIS and the Communists controlled their people in the past.
      We are now living at the peak of Apostasy era. Next will be the Chastisement era.

      • Grandmere

        He was being sarcastic.

        • Lidia

          Whether he was sarcastic or not. I still believe this group exists. They are polluting the world with their ideas. They are against God.
          I believe Ratliff thinks that the Catholics are the antichrist just from some of his comments in the past.

          • No Lidia. I know Ratliff, he was just kidding with me. But its good that it caused you to post some good read. I enjoyed reading it.

          • Lidia

            Thanks Walid. The article about Catholic prophecy was written in 2012. If the writer wrote it today, I’m sure he would mention the Islamic Caliphate too along with immorality and the EU. The same writer also wrote another article which I thought was interesting:

            http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/the-muslim-world-needs-conversion-not-understanding

            Again, if he wrote this article today, he would have to keep ISIS and other terrorists in mind. It would be very dangerous to send missionaries to the Middle East. The Catholic Church needs to send missionaries to Germany and Austria and other places in Europe. If there is no such missionary group, then one should be put together. Maybe the Secular Franciscans can take the lead. I’m learning to become one.
            Here is one Christian man in his own country who is trying and as you can see, it’s not easy. Except for that annoying guy who keeps yelling, all the other people seem to be listening to him even though they are acting like they are not taking him seriously. It’s only because they are afraid. I’m sure they were listening to his messages about Jesus. At least they were curious.

          • Lidia

            Maybe this is your calling Walid, maybe you could try to reach and convert these Muslim people in Europe. You speak Arabic. One day you might become St. Walid, the converter of Muslims. LOL
            I’m sure that a lot of Muslims read your articles, maybe you are helping them through the internet too.

          • Naaaaa… my mission is in Tyre not Nineveh 😉

          • Ratliff

            Good morning.

          • When some asks to tolerate their foolishness is proof they are gaining wisdom.

          • Ratliff

            Nope. My son and I are investigating Orthodox Churches for a home. Your sleuthing has fallen far, far short of the truth.

          • Ratliff

            And foiduhmore…

            “They are against God.”

            Aren’t there enough enemies of the Lord God and His people in plain sight for us to battle? Must we resort to chasing after the phantom variety that we “believe to exist?”

            I bear you no ill will, Lydia; may the Lord God richly bless you and yours.

            He who is not against you is for you.

        • racarrera

          Ratliff is good people. Don’t worry.

        • Ratliff

          Childish, at best. Thank you, Grandmere.

      • Lidia

        If there is a war against Christianity or the Catholic Church, then who are their enemies? We know that the Islamic Caliphate is one but who is the other group that supports them? I’m sure that the atheistic and secular views of globalists do not follow the Islamic way of life but why are they supporting them anyways? It makes no sense. Even Bill Maher can’t figure this out. It makes you wonder what they have up their sleeve and it has nothing to do with Islamic takeover of the world. When they get rid of all the Christians one day, then they will go after the Muslims in the end. Or they can get rid of both of them at the same time by creating a war between the 2 religions. A religious war! According to some, they created the Shiite and Sunni war in the Middle East. Next will be Christianity and Islam, starting in Europe!

        • Lidia

          ”hate filled, worst ravages unleashed”–>The Illuminati are the TYRANTS that St. Francis of Paola talked about in his letter to the French monarch. St. Francis told him that his bloodline one day will destroy these tyrants. What happened to the French monarchy? Or Russian monarchy? They were all destroyed. By whom? Surely not by Muslims. Lets all look into this deeper.
          St. Francis’ words have not been forgotten because it’s the truth and one day when the world sees the return of the King of France, then we will know what comes next. Guess who crowns him king?

          http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/catholic-prophecy-europe-and-the-return-of-the-king

  • “This is what happens when eschatological theories trump essential doctrines of soteriology.”

    Every time you speak, you set yourself up for another Jesus style question:

    Tell us of a single “Thus says the Lord” in the Bible that is not “essential”?

    Can you?

    You can’t and you won’t.

    Now stop reading systematic theology and come here and learn real theology for a change. And while your at it, get rid of this James White bald look will ya? You look hideous.

    • Ratliff

      “You look hideous.”

      The real Thomas Dolby just read this and burst into tears.

      • racarrera

        Yeah, but he’d probably write a great tune out of it!

    • DanlBoone

      “Now stop reading systematic theology and come here and learn real theology for a change”

      __
      When irony is perfected, a paradox is said to occur.. apologizing for Roman doctrine is a paradox which is only resolved in Christ.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Perhaps you should have stated: resolved in the proper understanding of Christ and in the proper understanding of how we are justified and sanctified.

        • DanlBoone

          as if you had a clue.

        • DanlBoone

          welcome to your paradox.

    • Woody

      So true but too simple for many to understand. So many are “verse pluckers.” (Gee I like this verse of Jesue-duh! He did say this too, but I’ll ignore that one since it dont agree wit my brilant mind.)

  • Julie

    Your detailed information regarding Pope Pius are accurate, plus you provided more in his attempts to remove Hitler.

    Pius XII signed the Concordat with Hitler that was a document ensuring Catholics would have freedom of religious expression. About photos…anti papal possible KGB agents showed him leaving Hitler after being at a meeting in Germany and it was falsely presented as having happened close to the beginning of WWII, when in fact, the picture was taken many years prior with Pius never returning.

    ‘Pave the Way Organization’ a Jewish organization, got permission to go into archives to study Pius and to further ‘expose’ him, they growing up to have a great dislike of him.

    When they finally completed their investigation, they came out realizing that there was no other human being who did more for the Jews than Pius. They went back in to study more ‘scandals’ and came out wondering why the Church did not defend itself more.

    • Woody

      Yes, even the movie “The Red and the Black” got it right starring Grgfory Pecker

      • Julie

        Great movie!

  • Julie

    You should get a copy of ‘The Supper of the Lamb’ by Dr Scot Hahn who discusses this issue of justification.

    • Mark T

      Or you could read from other former anti-Catholics (now converts to Catholicism) and their writings on-line and see what they discovered regarding justification after really reading the ENTIRE Bible.

      http://www.callingallconverts.com/
      http://www.calledtocommunion.com/

      • Julie

        I love Called to Communion..especially insightful, ‘Catholics are Ecclesial Deists’, August 2009. Thanks for the other link, Mark!

        • Woody

          What was that Baptist pastor address on utube – he is sooo funny?

    • Woody

      Yes, Hahn is brilliant and we were so lucky to get him; can’t believe he was once a juvenile delq?

      • Julie

        Didn’t know that…but very on fire as a Protestant minister.

  • John Mungai

    Tim Lahaye, Dave hunt, Chuck missler! I know what you think of Chuck Smith from your writings, what do you think about Chuck Missler.

  • Tom_mcewen

    The problem I see is that Jesuits were the intellectual foot soldiers if the church, their reasoning gained them back Catholics who had fallen away. The anger was maybe rooted in the opposing force who couldn’t intellectually provide an answer, they here started a college covering the sciences and applied sciences to improve people’s lives, part of that was a large library system. They became a force and there is alway an opposing force, Fredrick II closed down the order in 1773 here followed by other rulers. More and Joan of arc was killed not because they were gulity but because the Kings wanted them dead. Kings don’t need reasons, they have reasons of their own and so does the world.

  • Owen Schumacher

    Point well taken, Walid. However, I can’t get over how delicious that burrito looks. In the future, try not to distract us with pictures like that. 😉

    • Grandmere

      Especially during Lent.

  • FF

    I mr. Shoebat.
    I’m not a good “english speaker” but in the paragraph where it’s written:

    – “And while they speak of Catholics “burning at the stake” the so-called saints …”

    did you mean “Protestants “burning at the stake””?

    Great article.

    • Raph Sebastian

      This is what Walid wrote: [ And while they speak of Catholics “burning at the stake” the so-called saints, the English Reformation’s Jesuit conspiracy theorists instituted the death penalty in Protestant England forbidding anyone to belong to the Jesuits under the penalty of being hanged, drawn and quartered.]

      Walid was making reference to Protestants that accuse Catholics of killing saints. When clearly these so-called saints would also be burnt at the stake by the Protestants of that time but present time Protestants use this as a excuse to blacken Catholics. These people were no saints, they were heretics, teaching a wholly different gospel, adding words to the bible and other false teachings, some even denied the Trinity and some even denied that Jesus was God made into flesh. The only penalty back at that time against heresy was burning at the stake. Of course the Church regrets its past but we do not deny this at all. Those who were burnt at the stake were not judged arbitrarily, there was indeed a very long process, investigations are exhaustive. Many times these people were given the chance to recant, confess through the Sacrament of Confession and then comeback into the Church.

      However what Walid was pointing out is that Protestants make this accusation while clearly there were laws against people the Jesuits made up by Protestant England. That anyone who is a Jesuit would be hung, pulled behind horses and put to death by cutting into four parts in public.

      • FF

        Thanks Raph.
        Sometimes I struggle with reasonings (in english) which extend over several paragraphs.
        I thought Walid was referring a claim by Protestants (“they speak of”), to justify their violence on Catholics.
        Thanks again.

        • Raph Sebastian

          Well you are also right, when Walid used “they speak of” he is showing the hypocrisy of Protestants, while Protestants too have their hand bloodied with Catholic blood, there has never been an open acceptance of those deeds. There has been a lot of violence against each other, only thing is that most Protestants will not acknowledge their own mistakes, and use the acts of Catholics in the past to tarnish all of the Catholic Church.

          • Thank you Sebastian for clarifying this. You read my mind perfectly.

          • Mark T

            Raph

            If protestants were to examine the actions of their elected leaders and their great theologians, just in the first 500 years of protestantism, they would suddenly be faced with a rapidly deteriorating statistical advantage of claiming “Catholics have killed more people than….” The numbers don’t add up, nor does the history prove their points.

            I’m sick and tired of hearing how the Spanish Inquisition was a “Catholic Church” event. Or “Those Catholics butchered all those Aztecs in the name of the Catholic Church”, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum! Funny how protestants want to broad-brush and attach the acts of a sovereign Catholic state to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

            Didn’t Stanley above mention that he doesn’t defend the bad actions of any protestant that has committed a horrible crime? Yet, that is what protestants do when they attempt to attach the actions of Spain to the Catholic Church. It’s always a double standard.

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    To those who believe the Jesuits are collectively evil, look into the eight German Jesuit missionary priests who miraculously survived the bombing of Hiroshima, with an open mind and heart.

    The 70th year anniversary of Hiroshima was commemorated last year in August.

    I recall first hearing about this when my brother attended Jesuit boarding school in the early 2000s.

    Sadly, many people today, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, don’t know about this miraculous incident.

    After looking into this, we ought to ask ourselves: Would God have miraculously saved the lives of these eight faithful Jesuit priests if they were so “evil” simply because they belonged to the Jesuit order?

    It should also be noted these German Jesuits also had a great devotion to the Blessed Mother and prayed the Rosary daily, which should call into question those who attempt to discredit or undermine:

    (a) the power of the Rosary; and

    (b) any doubt that the Blessed Virgin Mary does not intercede, or cannot be called upon to intercede for us as followers of Her Son, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    • Doc

      Do you have a link to this story? I love to read stories of miracles.

      • racarrera

        Consider looking for “The Prologue of Ohrid” which has daily lives of the saints.

      • Стефан Евгений

        Here is one Doc, hang on to your hat.
        http://www.pigizois.net/agglika/the_miracle_in_siria.htm

      • Willing to die for Jesus
      • Woody

        Here is one for you: (I have not a lot of knowledge on this one so I do not know if it is “Church Approved or not yet?” I always wait for Church approval as St Paul warns: (google Our Lady in Zeitoun)

        The visions of Our Lady in Egypt that took place between the years 1968-2009 are the undoubtedly the most widely witnessed Marian apparitions in history. The numbers of those who have witnessed these events are estimated to be in the millions, and unlike the other great Marian apparitions, these visions belong to a category known in Catholic theology as visio sensibilis – i.e. they are an actual physical manifestation. This is distinguished from the common class of visions known as visio imaginativa – where the apparitions are visible only to the seers themselves (like Fatima, Lourdes, etc.). Cardinal Bertone, the former secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and current Vatican secretary of state, lists the apparitions at Zeitoun as one of the very few modern apparitions officially recognized as authentic by the Catholic Church (See Bertone, T. The Last Secret of Fatima pp10-11).

        Unlike Fatima and La Salette however, the apparitions in Egypt were not accompanied by a message, and their purpose has been somewhat of an enigma. In Unveiling the Apocalypse, I show how these apparitions appear to be connected with the prophecy of the Woman adorned with the Sun in Rev 12, and how the timing and location of the apparitions appear to be the message in itself. There are many paralells between the Marian apparitions in Egypt and the account of the Woman adorned with the Sun in Rev 12.

        And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. (Rev 12:1-6)

        Chapter 12 of the Apocalypse is undoubtedly an apocalyptic retelling of the story of the nativity. The account of the Woman adorned with the Sun tells how she is with child and pursued by the Dragon intent on destroying her offspring, but the Woman escapes into the desert where she finds refuge for 1,260 days or three and a half years. This scene is obvioiusly based on the events of the nativity, where the Holy Family is forced to flee into Egypt in order to escape from King Herod, who seeking to destroy his potential usurper orders the slaugther of the Holy Innocents. The “three and a half years” may then give a date for Jesus’ birth in 7BC (which would be in line with the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn hypothesis for the Star of Bethlehem, since this event occurred in that year), and this time period would have ended in 4BC at the death of King Herod.

        The modern apparitions of Our Lady in Egypt (which are those of Zeitoun from 1968-1971; Shobura from 1986-1991, Assiut from 2000-2001 and Warraq in 2009) have all occurred at places which are traditionally associated with the flight of the Holy Family into Egypt. The apparitions took place over Coptic Churches whose names also seem to be of some significance. Those of Zeitoun occurred over a Church dedicated to St Mary herself, whilst those of Assiut took place over St Mark’s – and it has been noted that the original apparitions which began in April 1968 coincided with the return of the relics of St Mark (who is the patron saint of Egypt) by Pope Paul VI to Alexandria (see here). Those at Shoubra appeared over a church dedicated to St. Demiana – who in another “slaugther of the innocents” was massacared along with 40 other martyr-virgins during the persecution under Diocletian (see here). Perhaps most tellingly, is the most recent appearances of Our Lady over the church dedicated to the Virgin Mary and Archangel Michael at Warraq in 2009. The only place in Scripture that links the Virgin with the Archangel Michael is in Rev 12.

        • Julie

          I wonder if it was so because people there are not allowed to study Christianity. So all she could do was to appear to them and show them some thing of heaven through Mary.

          • AnninLA

            Mary often appears in places where trouble is about to strike, war, etc. At the time she appeared in Egypt, all was well with Coptic Christians in Egypt, but Islam was just around the corner and was about to move in..Now Islam has taken over the middle east and Christians there have become martyrs..Mary’s appearance in Egypt was a warning, and an invitation to Christ..

          • Woody

            Good point I wonder why I heard nothing about Egypt until I just stumbled on it. It is something to behold on line, she is all bright and up high.
            Have you heard how many Muslims have been converted as a result of this–I did see over 100,000 witnessed it.

          • Julie

            So true.

            She could be the instrument to help their conversion. All over the world people have the internet and the Muslims themselves are very ashamed of what is happening now.

            It is causing them to step back and want to reform their belief system, even they are listening to P Francis in how to moderate.

    • Woody

      Absolutely and at Jesus first miracle at Cana, the bride and groom went to Mary and asked for her “intercession” and with 4 words “They have no wine”, she caused her son to come out early in his public life and save souls. boy I’ll bet those souls are grateful.

  • Tom_mcewen

    I like that Jesuit Yoda, ” There is do or not do, there is no try “.PS if those burritos will damn me, I accept, do they come with chips and sauce.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Those burritos are a Catholic secret weapon. Very bad, bad, bad.

    • Grandmere

      I didn’t give up Mexican food for Lent. I have great sympathy for those who did. It will be a long 40 days.

      • Tom_mcewen

        I drove from Germany to Spain hoping that after 400 years they had brought back Mexican food, no joy, great fish, great people, great beaches but no golden Mexican food. That burrito looked Evil, I heard voices, talking to my heart with lust, we don’t have the spices here to make such soul sucking things, but I have hope.

        • Come on over Tom, my wife make the best shredded beef Enchiladas, burritos, tacos … and after your all done, you can swing to the confessional and get absolution 😉

          • Tom_mcewen

            I think we tried that you kept tasting them for poison or if they were good enough, so I never got a taste. I am sure your wife makes the second best. Gema makes the best I will have to talk to her and get her to Czech. I bet your wife’s enchiladas are great, I bet Mary helped cook, you are a lucky lucky man, listen to your wife, if she was smart enough to catch you she is smart enough to advise you. Men are 7 years old all their lives, women don’t understand that. When I was seven I found an WWII freight parachute and found the highest building in grantspass oregon, and tied the chute to myself and jumped off, after three jumps my mother showed up. No thinking for me.

        • Grandmere

          Maybe when you retire you can move to Spain and set up a Mexican restaurant. You’ll make a fortune.

          • Tom_mcewen

            I am retired thou I work 12 hours a day painting six days a week, I retired when I was 48 I am now 70. I plan to die in Czech. I have already put in my application to fly God’s DC3/C47, it is a wonderful aircraft to fly, wonderful, and paint with Michaelangelo as my instructor that after I get out of purgatory. Hope to see you there.

        • Doc

          I can usually hear Mexican food calling me as well.

  • AnninLA

    Thank you for writing this Walid. It needs to be exposed. I hope you will address this even more in the future. Too many Christians involved in wrong thinking, conspiracy and delusion. It’s absolute insanity.

    • Thank you Annin for commenting on the Facebook. You read. You love knowledge. You are blessed.

    • Woody

      The devil is always working hard to confuse people.

  • Tom_mcewen

    I find protestants are drawn to the church even to attack it. When they give us “The Facts”, and we reject The Facts, they can only believe that we are brainwashed, that in someways we cannot over coming our training and use our minds. The Catholics who discover the bible, after listening to it for ten or twenty years in church leave because the church is not biblical. Lucky for us Catholics these are the same ones who would not hear the train’s Horn if they stood on the track. Baptists in the upper room, Mary as a Goddess, works not grace, worshipping statues, praying to the dead, calling a man Father, and on and on. Catholics have more patience then Job.

    • Woody

      Yes, how many times do we have to refute these non-Catholic beliefs? Protestants are he only people I know and I know many good ones as friends, but they are the only people to “tell others what they believe.” I married a Methodist and when I wanted to know what Methodists believe I would ask her. How logical and simple is that.

  • Rjk

    Are people like MacArthur, layhay etc. enemies of the real Catholic church. Or is all forgiven since they still preach Christ.
    I’ve always wondered this.

    • Ask Christ what is Christ’s and ask man what is man’s.

    • Grandmere

      They believe that all sins past present and future are covered by that altar call so they are not worried.

      • racarrera

        To their detriment.

  • Lidia

    I like that photo how the Protestants rewrite the Bible.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Oh boy.I hope the holy nunchucku have been wiped clean from the last battle and ready to go.

    • You didn’t leave a single one standing Bruce Lee. You left no one for us to beat.

      Now what do we do.

  • Marcos Filipe Guerra

    ROFL a jesuit and a kgb agent! Oh boy……ah, you repeated the word “when” while writing about Paul IV. Gut article mein kamaraten. KGB agent…..ROFL LMAO.

  • Trevor

    Walid, so it is true. You are a Jesuit, a Mossad, and a Russian spy all rolled one in one thick accent.

    Where can I sign up? I wanna be right next to you.

    • To become a qualified Putin KGB agent Trevor, you must first work on loving testosterone type Russian songs:

      And to become a Jesuit agent, you must first memorize Latin hymns. And you also must speak Greek and Arabic. You need to memorize all of Bithikotsis songs, especially O Kaimos:

      You must cook, Greek, Italian, Chinese, Middle Eastern, stuff entire lambs and bake loafs of bread … And to become a joyful man you must also love to dance to Paploma:

      Once you accomplish all this, call me and I will connect you and then we can infiltrate together.

      • Trevor

        Would you, good sir, make an exception because I can’t hear those?

      • I forgot to add the most important ingredient: to be willing to die, murdered, slandered, beheaded and accused of all sorts of things …

        Are you ready Trevor, to give your life and the lives of your family??

        • Trevor

          I will answer by relaying something my former Foursquare pastor told me during my wedding ceremony.

          “As Christ loved the church and gave His life for her,” the pastor then looked at me and solemnly said, “Trevor, there may come a day you will have to lay down your life for your wife.”

          Those words never left me. So, yes, Walid, I am willing to die for Christ and for my wife. I want to have St. Stephen as my patron saint because I greatly desire to have the same conviction and courage to speak the truth in the face of death.

      • racarrera

        In other words, be cultured and educated, not a hick, a creep or a guy who bought his Ph.D. from a mill.

      • Woody

        How about me; I mailed Putin a bra; can we all send him one.

    • Стефан Евгений

      Right along with me bro! how many times have I been called a commie on this blog.

      • Trevor

        I have been accused of being a Catholic which is amusing or being part of the falling away simply because I am continuing learning the truth.

        • Carry out all of what they accuse you of.

          • Trevor

            Did you receive my email? I sent you a picture. 🙂

          • Not yet. I will check later. I am not an email type of guy.

          • Trevor

            It may make you smile.

          • Grandmere

            You want to open that one Chef.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            He got marked on the forehead – looks almost as good as that burrito.

        • Mark T

          And you just keep on learning my good man! Keep on learning and “test all things”

          • Trevor

            I intend to, my friend. I intend to. Love, love reading the Ante-Nicene Fathers. Irenaeus is my favorite next to Clement of Rome.

      • DeusLoVult

        If the the morons would look half a millimeter to the left of your name tag, they’d know that wasn’t true, Rusky.

        • Mark T

          Well right there’s the whole problem, Deus! The “West” seems to be stuck in the “standard system” of measurements. They don’t like the metric system. Maybe that’s why they are having difficulty 😉

          • DeusLoVult

            What???? Use the metric system???? :0 *vomits until death.

            Keep your metric system to yourself…honestly…measuring altitude in meters…*scoffs. 😉

          • Deus,

            You are starting another schism 😉

          • DeusLoVult

            No schism sir….this is WAR…war between a noble people who measure things with a practical system….and a people who are obsessed with groups of ten. 😉

          • Mark T

            LOL!! TRUTH!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            AMEN TO THAT!!! I remember ‘back in the day’ (you weren’t even thought of yet), we were told that the entire US would be using the metric system in a few years, we had to learn all the conversion factors, I was glad it never ‘caught on’.

          • DeusLoVult

            Thank goodness, my lady, because if I had to use the metric system I’d empty my bottle of suicide pills.

        • Стефан Евгений

          That does not come to their mind Grandmere.

          • DeusLoVult

            I think that was a joke, but if it wasn’t….reread that name….slowly…..

            If it was….HAHAHAHAHA!!! 😀

          • Стефан Евгений

            Sorry…. my eyesight must be going in my old age, or I had granny on my mind.

          • DeusLoVult

            lol 🙂 Don’t worry about it Rusky.

  • Patrick,

    Can you answer: Tell us of a single “Thus says the Lord” in the Bible that is not “essential”?

    No. You can’t and you won’t. Instead, what did you do?

    Change the subject.

    This is all what you people do.

    When I read comments like yours that are all intended to show “piety” by repetition of what we all know like “Christ finished everything at the cross …” as if this group are not aware of this fact, I always look for the poison and I usually find them every time. Here, all you are doing is to attempt to switch topics to faith vs. works and then “It is not what you study under men but what the Spirit of God teaches ” which is total nonsense, everything you learn is from men who either were led by the spirit or were led by the devil.

    Then plus to point fingers at my “rudeness” as if this is the occasion, does not justify your intent to change the subject and to point fingers. If you do not like my “rudeness” you are always welcome to leave. Who here is tying you up and forcing your fingers to type? Can you name them? No.

    The lazy servant said regarding Christ “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man …”

    Thats what the lazy servant does, always accuses of the other side being “hard” “rude” … as if to write-off everything they say.

    Look, I was not born yesterday and I have already been through many packs of wolves and have no time for a kiotee.

    • Mark T

      Mr. Shoebat

      That’s “coyote” 🙂

      • Grandmere

        Oh, Mark. Let Chef have a little fun. Kiotee made me smile. I thought everybody knew kiotee was Arabic for coyote.

        • Mark T

          Ooookaay, Grandmere 🙂 But I have to admit, i thought “kiotee” was hilarious because my friend from Croatia spelled it the exact same way when he was asking about the type of wild dogs in America.

          • Grandmere

            That is hysterical.

    • Doc

      K-POW! BAM! ZAP! Batman’s fists are no match for Shoebat’s!

    • Woody

      Right and then he can admit to be a follower of Luther (ignoring James) not of Jesus.

  • Never knew you to be looking for you.

  • Стефан Евгений

    Here is some more Russian men doing what we do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JQ0xnJyb0A&list=RD5wodaofs5N0
    The band is called Otava Yo the Russian translation click (more)

    • Love you crazy Russians 😉 God bless you and God bless all the Russian people.

      • Стефан Евгений

        Brother Walid, glad you pointed out CBN and Pat Robertson, just listen to this hit report on by them, Like we are Orthodox and we can’t know Christ, what a bit of nasty.
        http://www1.cbn.com/content/russias-orthodox-church

        • racarrera

          I had to leave a comment. These people are cretins.

          • Стефан Евгений

            R, did you notice the nasty comments like….”Ryakhovski worries that the Orthodox Church’s influence is coming at the expense of religious freedom, especially for minority groups such as Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists”…….(Like Orthodox are not Christian.) And this, according to Evangelicals we Russians are not allowed by them to spread the gospel in our own land………(and get this)”Roman Lunkin, a “human rights” advocate based in Moscow, said the head of the Orthodox Church is on a mission to expand its powers and influence.

            “Patriarch Kirill, the new head of the Russian Orthodox Church, is attempting to turn the church into a more missionary-oriented religion and to depart from the old image of orthodoxy as a museum religion that is old and out of date,” said Lunkin, who runs the Slavic Center for Law & Justice.””
            The fundies have some balls, to say to the Orthodox “you have no right to spread the gospel of Christ” in a Christian land that has been Christian for over a Thousand years.

          • racarrera

            The Orthodox Church is right to throw these spiritual drunkards out of a fine establishment.

    • Grandmere

      Wow, Evgeny! I had no idea the Urals were so much like Appalachia. What is the Russian word for hoedown anyway? Is their “shine” as good as ours?

      • Стефан Евгений

        I guess…..dace night or party (танцевальный вечер) would be close to hoedown. We can really party, and put the sad face Evangelicals to shame.
        My papa made the best “shine’ around. we used ripe pears in the mash that must be a Carpatho-Rus thing, Idon’t think other Russians use pears.

    • racarrera

      You gave the world Pushkin, Gogol, Dostoevsky, weird jazz guys like Sergey Kuryokhin, Sergei Belichenko and Roman Stolyar (the last two Siberian jazz buddies from Novosibirsk), and scores of the world’s finest artists, never mind a properly modeled Holy Orthodoxy. Russia will receive her due.

  • Mark T

    Welcome Home! God Bless you and your husband!

  • Mark T

    Nelson

    You are correct! I saw this when I first moved down there in 2009. I still see it today all over Salvador, Bahia. I find it all over in Cocheira and even in Feira de Santana.

  • Grandmere

    Remember. He was a great admirer of Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel.

  • Grandmere

    Just remember. This is the OPINION of a Jew from Argentina. Argentina is a very socialist country with a liberation theology bent.

    • racarrera

      If this election proves anything, it’s that Argentines are tired of fascists, cheap populists and Communists are done for for a while there. The land that gave me tango and Jorge Luis Borges deserves much better than to be a Peronist crap pot.

  • Fred Flint

    the words of the Volga boatman song reminded me of the erie canal song

  • Doc

    I am hopeful that IF Pope Francis is the “defective” pope or the last pope, that it will usher in an age when Roman catholic and Eastern orthodox are reunited and the Protestants are inspired as well.

  • Doc

    I have looked into this extensively and there is a possibility that the mark of the beast will somehow alter a person’s DNA so that they have the “seed of the serpent” and therefore cannot be redeemed. There is not enough space here to go into detail, but the subject is fascinating and I file it under “things to watch”.

  • Diana

    Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

    5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

    6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

    7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

    8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

    9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

    We live in a time very similar to when God destroyed ancient Israel. God was well aware of those that feared him during that time. Those that cried and sighed over the wickedness of the people and how it offended God’s holiness were protected. When judgment came, those people were spared:

  • racarrera

    It is sheerly because of the lack of education, and the prideful gloating over their hatred of any kind of learning except reading the Bible (which these people obviously can’t read very well) that such garbage infests the minds of people.

    None of these half-wits have ever read a proper history of St Ignatius of Loyola (a fascinating character worth studying). None have read about the mercy they should to many indigenous people by staying with them during the most terrible of times when others left them to cruel fates of slavery, disease or other misery.

    And then, you have Jesuits telling the Papacy that it’s perhaps a good idea to settle its misdeeds against Orthodoxy (and vice versa): http://legacy.fordham.edu/campus_resources/enewsroom/topstories_1895.asp

    People like LaHaye, MacArthur, and the sick minds who come here to pester otherwise good conversations will live with their lies like a millstone around their necks.

    • Woody

      One of my favorite prayers – St Ignatius, a Saintly man

      Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
      Body of Christ, save me.
      Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
      Water from the Side of Christ, wash me.
      Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
      O good Jesus, hear me.
      Within Thy Wounds hide me.
      Suffer me not to be separated from Thee.
      From the malignant enemy, defend me.
      In the hour of death, call me.
      And bid me come to Thee.
      That with Thy saints I may praise Thee.
      Forever and ever, Amen

      • racarrera

        Amen.

  • Auke Feitsma

    Thank you. I learned a lot. I am a protestant, but before that I was an atheist . The advantage is that I have nothing against Catholics. For me, all who believe the historically correct view of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus,and believe that Jesus is God (a person in the Trinity) are Christians. I think all Christians are one body under Jesus Himself. We are all organs in the same body. Through this site I have to confess that I truely believe that the Roman Catholic Church was the first church. I have also read about Jesuits, but I found that nonsens. That is in my view the same as atheists who believe in the flying spaghettimonster.

    • Mark T

      Auke
      Then thank God for your conversion! I encourage you to keep studying and learning. And most important: don’t be afraid to ask questions. I hope the Holy Ghost keeps guiding you my friend. Take care

    • “flying spaghetti monster.” was not true? Dang! How about the tooth ferry, is that also false? Please don’t say yes.

      • Tom_mcewen

        I like my flying spaghetti monster with meat balls; and mushrooms if I got them.

        • I like mine with Sicilian style tomato sauce with basil and fennel. sauté finely chopped onions with a few cloves of garlic until onions are silk not browned, grind fennel, chop a handful of basil, throw those in, trow in the sieved fresh tomato and allow to simmer for a couple of hours. Make the meatballs from ground beef, chopped basil and garlic, lots of parmesan cheese, lots of bread crumbs, pepper, salt, ground fennel (two spoons) one egg. sautee the meatballs, throw them in with the sauce and allow to simmer then pour a ladle or two on the spaghetti.

  • AnthonyM

    Interesting info in a tangentially related article:
    Practicing Christians are now a minority in Britain much like the persecuted Roman Catholic minority after the reformation, two senior clerics said yesterday.

    The Anglican Bishop of London, Richard Chartres, and the Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, Vincent Cardinal Nichols, said their respective Churches must put aside their differences and recognise their “common agenda” as society becomes increasingly secularised.

    The clerics were speaking after a historic meeting at Hampton Court Palace, home of Henry VIII, where the Chapel Royal celebrated Catholic Vespers for the first time in more than 450 years.

    The service was designed to highlight the palace’s musical history as it approaches its 500th anniversary.

    According to The Telegraph, Cardinal Nichols, who is de facto leader of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, said that after being severely persecuted in previous centuries, Catholics now contribute to British life as a “significant minority”, to which Bishop Chartres replied: “We are all minorities now.”

    Cardinal Nichols continued, adding that traditional Christian values that people “used to take for granted” are now widely questioned.

    Last month, B.L. reported how attendance at Church of England services had dropped below one million per week for the first time ever, with only 1.4 per cent of the population now attending England’s established church.

    The figures mark a two-thirds decrease since the 1960s, with Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby warning that Britain is becoming increasingly anti-Christian:

    “In some parts of the [Anglican] Communion decline in numbers has been a pattern for many years. In England our numbers have been falling at about one per cent every year since world war two…

    “The culture [is] becoming anti-Christian, whether it is on matters of sexual morality, or the care for people at the beginning or the end of life. It is easy to paint a very gloomy picture.”

  • Kamau41

    “The danger is, that if conspiracy theories consumed an entire culture, the end result is an assured Fourth Reich. This is no conspiracy theory especially since that tyrannies start by the promotion of propaganda and conspiracy theories which fester to finally engulf the entire society.” Very timely and well written article. We pray that God will heal those who are blinded by their conspiracy theories and prejudices toward the Catholic Church that has been passed down from the traditions of men before it is eternally too late.

  • Julie

    Correct.

  • You are now using your flowchart that always goes back to the first box which says [RUDE]

    If you want to leave, I will push the eject button, or you can push it yourself. Which is it?

  • Will-Kayla Maxwell

    Protestants loved to refer to this St. Malachy prophecy and say “even Catholic prophecy foretells that the Pope is the anti-Christ”, and then they never actually tell the people they are feeding this crap to what the prophecy actually says.

    The supposed prophecy concerning the end of the world and the last Pope is as follows:
    “In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End.”

    No where does this prophecy say anything about the Pope being the anti-Christ. On the contrary, if this prophecy is to be believed than that means that the Catholic Church is the true church of Christ and that the last Pope “Peter the Roman” is a good shepherd who will feed his flock during the final persecution (the great tribulation).

    Remember St. John 21:17
    He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.
    Feeding the Lord’s sheep was the task given to St. Peter and it looks like if this prophecy is to be believed that St. Peter’s successor the final Pope will be doing just as Christ commissioned him to do.
    This prophecy is a perfect example of how protestants create heretical agenda supporting arguments based on fairytale facts that don’t exist when in truth the evidence points to the contrary. The protestant preachers that use things like this prophecy to convince people the Pope is the anti-Christ or false prophet, either one are crooked men trying to swindle a dollar out of the unlearned or they just heard it from some one, never actually looked into the facts, and since it supported their agenda and was anti-Catholic they just ran with it. Either way they are false prophets whether the St. Malachy prophesy is true or not.

    • Isaiah5512

      Pope John Paul II is well known to have stated to Father Malachi Martin, that he believed that the final Pope would be a traitor and an anti-pope. Did someone feed Pope John Paul II crap (?) … that he foolishly believed and expressed such to others within the church? Anyone who does not know who Father Malachi Martin is, can read the following. He was no small fish in the Catholic Church. And as a Catholic Church insider, he had formed definite views from his unique perspective. Father Martin was not prone to basing what he believed on “fairy tale facts”. http://www.roman-catholic.com/Roman/Articles/FrMartinInterview.htm

      • Woody

        “anti-Popes” only “claim” to be Popes, and, throughout history, they are not Pope’s– so the argument refutes itself.

      • Will-Kayla Maxwell

        What you have said here has nothing to do with the Saint Malachy prophesy. The Saint Malachy prophesy says nothing about the last Pope being an anti-Pope. Although it is used all the time to support the idea that the last Pope is the anti-Christ or false prophet. That is the issue I was addressing.
        As far as Father Malachi Martin goes, I agree with a lot of what he says concerning traditional Catholicism and there being problems in the Church. I do not however, believe everything he said. I have no reason to. A lot of things he spoke of can be no more than conspiracy theories because there is at this point no evidence to support them. I personally think he was probably mixing some truth with some wild lies. I don’t believe his statements concerning the third secret of Fatima for instance. Anyhow, I guess only time will tell.

        • Isaiah5512

          l’ll have to agree with most of what you said. I wouldn’t guess that Father Malachi would lie to sell a book or would tell wild lies to try to strengthen his own personal views. He did serve as confidant to so many within the church, so he had to have some credibility, although writing novels to express things he believed to be true, may not have been the best way to express what he thought the future held.

          • Will Maxwell

            Maybe wild imagination would fit better than lies. lol I just feel there must be more evidence in order to believe him, until then I will take his message with skepticism.

            Dominus vobiscum

    • Great historical context. Thanks for clearing up his rather muddied argument.

      • Will Maxwell

        Your welcome, may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

  • Стефан Евгений

    It is an aspen tree log and yes it is heavy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wodaofs5N0

    • racarrera

      I participated in something similar when I was growing up. Caber tossing. Fine sport.

  • Joseph

    In that picture of the Catholic Cardinal meeting with Hitler, you could honestly make the case that he is not supporting Hitler, but confronting Hitler. In Spanish, the word for “forehead” is “frente”. In the picture, I was struck by how the Cardinal and Hitler are standing directly in front of each other (“head to head” if you will). And the Latin origin for the English word “confront” comes from this “frente/forehead” root: i.e. to “confront” someone meant to “put your forehead directly in front of their forehead”. “Con” means “with” and “Frente” means forehead. “Con-Frente” = to stand with your forehead facing (against) the other person. And “Con-frente” became “Confront” in English.

    Without an accompanying video or audio track, if anything, to me that picture depicts a Catholic Cardinal “Confronting” (i.e. going against) Hitler, not supporting him. Just sayin’.

    Great article, as usual, Walid. And yes, the truth and factual history sure are ‘inconvenient’ things for the Protestants and conspiracy theorists. I agree.

    • Joseph, Confronter in Arabic is Saddam.

      If you notice Masadda the hill where the Jews in the end confronted the Romans. Massada means the place of confrontation.

      Collision, is Sadam as when two cars collide.

      Always good to hear from you Joseph.

      • Joseph

        Same here, Walid. Godspeed. You are in my prayers now every day.

    • racarrera

      To go head-to-head. Well stated, Joseph!

  • Raph Sebastian

    Jesus founded a Church, the first Church is not a denomination, the very word denomination means a derivative of something, like a fraction, a denomination is a lesser incomplete part of the numerator. The Catholic Church is pre-denominational, to say that the Catholic Church and Catholics are a denomination is, well, absolutely false. Denominations only came about 1500 years after the Catholic Church was founded by Christ, the result of the Protestant heresy. There are still fractures and splits that continue to make up more denominations even up to last week. I hope this helps.

    • Raph Sebastian

      if there was a fraction to describe Catholicism and Protestantism it would be this,

      1 (Catholic Church)
      __________

      40000 (Protestant denominations and derivatives and counting)

      • It is much easier to manage the IBM Main Frame vs. The 40,000 PC networking with each other where we have to twist the code so the Apple and Microsoft can interact with each other.

    • Mark T

      Raph

      Once again…You da man! I pointed this out to several people every time they ask me “what’s your denomination?” I look at them confused and respond:””Denomination? What is a denomination? That has no meaning to a Catholic.” You should see the responses I get 😉

  • Bert,

    Thank you for your kind response. I still like Chuck Missler.

    If you ask me, I will veer you towards thy wife, but I do prefer you research both sides of the fence an that will take you some time. Be patient. And your wife is wise to keep the unity of your family together. This is crucial. I would rather sit with you and discuss God and theology rather then sitting with a Catholic by birth who could care less about God.

    But the claim that these seven churches actually represent, and prophetically describe, different phases of Church history over the past two thousand years is simply not true. This whole claim that Thyatira represents the Catholic Church adding pagan elements to Christianity is nonsense. They also say that Constantine mixed this “paganism”. If so, please read:

    http://shoebat.com/2013/09/21/constantine-create-catholic-church/

    Then they say that Sardis signifies Protestantism’s fervor of the Reformation and Philadelphia to signify the various Protestant “revivals” of the 18th and 19th centuries.

    This is all nonsense. All seven churches of Asia Minor were Catholic churches.

    Even John’s time you had his student St. Polycarp. Irenaeus was the student of Polycarp who was the student of John. When it comes to the Eucharist for example, being the real presence from St. Ignatius of Antioch (110A.D.), St. Irenaeus (140-202 A.D.), Tertullian (155-250 A.D.), Origen, St. Clement, St, Cyprian … they all agree is the real presence. Try to google this to see how James White responds and there you find complete silence.

    The protestant main argument is that “Catholic theology is poles apart from the heart of the Gospel and the concept of salvation by faith alone that was taught in the Old and New Testament”.

    This falsity is propagated and repeated billions of times over. The Bible was constructed in a way that even when it comes to the issue of God Himself, man can create endless controversies and useless debate where the author of confusion is allowed to thrive. This is true even if God included a Magisterium, St. Polycarp, St. Clement and St. Athanasius to become part of the canon of Scripture where clear proof thwarts Protestant arguments, it matters not, man will still create controversy that leads to heresy.

    I take just the Eucharist as one example and can write entire books on it to show how controversy is created. This is long, but I hope you give me your response on it:

    http://shoebat.com/2016/01/25/91567/

  • Raph Sebastian

    My dear sister, history is bound to repeat itself, I fear. The way Christian persecution is being carried out, with the tacit and sometimes overt cooperation of secularists, atheists, muslims, politicians and liberals. There has never been a greater threat to the followers of our LORD than it has ever been than today. All we can do is pray, defend ourselves and our loved ones, keep the faith and be in constant joyful hope of the coming of our LORD.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Hold on there – I’ve always heard that St. Ignatius of Antioch is considered the first systematical theologian – St. John of Damascus is also considered to be a systematic theologian.

    • Julie

      Yes….and so many theologian saints and spiritual directors.

  • Glad you had a laugh Christina. You will be amazed how many people take my comments personally and they get bent out of shape 😉

  • Thank you Rev. Higgins for your kind comment. Hope to see you remain and help us in pulling in the net. The fish are plenty in the net and we need more fishermen of souls. Would you help us?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    I am convinced she is of the devil.

    • racarrera

      Amen to that. And the devil produces morons.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Thanks for the reprise of the genocide of the Irish – I have Irish roots, my Irish Grandfather Grogan was born in the US shortly after the family immigrated here.

  • Dacian

    Just thinking about the appearance of the Jesuits,they look very dignified and proper.A handsome bunch of guys.And also that name;”The society of Jesus” all that with their Ignatian spirituality,makes the formidable and kind of awesome.PS:i was told to write this by Walid,if i was to refuse,he would send some brutes in black cassocks,to teach me a lesson in obedience=)

  • John Mungai

    Yes I always notice he is into too much conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories and slander seem to go hand in hand and I see how much he has to say about the Catholic church. Also alot of fear mongering. I don’t think we can all fit in new Zealand apparently the only safe place left.

    • I was with the man in New Zealand and travelled on a speaking tour with him all over Australia. I asked him if he does not fear that the largest Muslim country on earth is not far from him. Apparently he didn’t consider it. I spoke for him a few times, and every time I would remind him of what he predicted that Israel will attack Iran and destroy their nuclear reactor. I had made a gentleman’s bet with him that this is not going to happen. Every time, the attack will be “next month” “next week” … it never happened. I was winning every time. They make outlandish predictions and all sorts of bizarre claims. But I must say I liked the guy.

      • racarrera

        Even if he’s wrong, he has entertained my brother for years with the odd gobbledygook that doesn’t impress me, but what he loves as he’s into Nephilim and some of these Coast-To-Coast type theories.

  • I appreciate Conny agreeing with my interpretation of the muslim world as the seat of Antichrist and her support for Russia in Syria. I believe it is a blessing of God. I do also appreciate Conny’s support for Donald Trump. Sorry that Conny have turned against Catholic teaching and gone radical in the Evangelical direction forgetting that the Catholic Church was the FIRST church.

    • DanlBoone

      Mr. Shoebat, I’m gonna have to dock you about 50 out of 100 credibility points for your ill conceived allegiance to Rome and her heresies.

      • Woody

        Look in the mirror for your heretic; it is easy to find the Church Jesus founded; even the devil knows where the true Church of Christ is–only the Sacred Hosts (Eucharist) are stolen each year from ONE Church in order to desecrate them, with spittle etc nude women. Two ceremonies were held this past year–one at Harvard and one at Oklahoma. Satan would be quite dumb not to know where his enemy is. Does the devil steal “crackers and grape juice” from any church–NO!
        Julie was at the Oklahoma fiasco.

        • DanlBoone

          You probably had something in mind when you started typing that absurdity.

          • Woody

            Truth is hard to understand; google it, both incidents were in the newspapers of ask Julie as she was at Oklahoma.

          • DanlBoone

            What is the gospel that you base your salvation on, Woody?

          • Julie

            Creepy…follow advice and get educated…

          • Julie

            Absurd people go about making all sorts of claims but never check out their sources and make charges with no intent of understanding.

            You are not in the Lord’s will…don’t tell me your behavior here is Christian.

      • Julie

        what is your church?

      • Julie

        What about the other patriarchs? Where do you live in this country? Deep South? why are you drawn to such and not to educated, academic, documented materials?

    • I always thought that Jesus was the true Church and Foundation and Peter was the stone to gather more stones to the building into the foundation, any thing else would be the false church. Can you explain this… http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/the-united-nations-prophecy-bomb-pope-francis-dropped-that-nobody-caught/

      • Trevor

        I must give you words of caution about that website you referred to. It is troubling that Francis used, “In my name…” speech and the website’s attempt to paint Francis as some sort of messiah by quoting Jesus’ words. Yet, I can easily find Jesus’ quote warning His audience that they would embrace a false messiah that comes in his own name, and that was literally fulfilled just prior to the Siege of Jerusalem during the Jewish War of 67-70AD. The man’s name is Simon bar Koba. A rabbi tried to interpret a prophecy uttered by Jacob concerning his son, Judah, that the star shall rise from him to mean Koba when in fact it was pointing straight at Jesus.

        What is more interesting is the author also failed to make this connection that Simon bar Koba was the anti-messiah Jesus warned about. He also failed to mention the writing of Justin Martyr who said Simon bar Koba tried to get Christian to blaspheme Christ and follow him instead, and Christians resisted him. Even more interesting is the author’s failure to even connect Jesus’ words to Moses who, almost for word for word, said the same thing (see Deuteronomy 18:15).

        In 1 John, the apostle gave the Church the gold standard to test all those who claim to follow Christ. Do you know of when Pope Francis ever denied Christ? Can you find any speech where Pope said Jesus was never God, never came in the flesh, and never died on the cross? Those must be tested in order to prove beyond all reasonable doubts that the Pope is the anti-messiah that we all are waiting for.

        Furthermore, in browsing the site, Now The End Begins, I decided to look at the topics covered by the dreaded Mark of the Beast. Wow, talk about a loaded conspiracy theory on the computer chip as if it is the mark of the beast. Can you find any sources where people were beheaded for accepting the chip? If 10,000 people have received the chip as the mark of beast, then there must have been people who resisted and were beheaded. Revelation demands it. God’s integrity of His Words demands that it be fulfills. Can you find any source?

        Then in another topic, it criticized the parading of Padre Pio’s body and said his body was exhumed with life like mask placed on his head. The author NEVER provided any credible evidence to back his claim which leads me to conclude one thing – the author is inherently anti-Catholic and filled with paranoia fueled from conspiracy theories. What is even worse is spite of all the beheading and crucifixions of Christians being committed in the Middle East at the hand of Islamic barbarians, the author failed to make any connection to the rise of the Islamic empire (the final beast) because of his prejudice against the Catholic Church.

        If he hates the Catholic Church, then he must hate the Russia Orthodox Church, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the Egypt Orthodox Church (Coptic), and so forth. They all are apostolic succession churches that faithfully followed the teachings of the apostles exactly as the Book of Acts described.

        In my judgement, websites such as Now The End Begins.

      • Julie

        Instead, spend your time at http://www.calledtocommunion.com
        Check out august 2009, Catholics are Ecclesial Deists.

        This site is excellently done. They are former Protestant scholars and ministers or students of Protestant Divinity schools who through solid education and prayer, came into the Church.

        There are those who are still working out issues and share.

        • I know what Catholicism is and l will continue my path that l am on.. And it is not Catholicism

          • Julie

            You are not open to the truth. Look at the fruits. Look at all the attacks on our faith.

            If it was what people accuse if of, it would not be of Christ and would be gone.

      • Julie

        I would add that Christ is the life of the Church and without Him we are nothing.

        Christ is the Cornerstone.

        There are 25 Protestant theologians who concur with the Church that the name Peter in both Greek and Aramaic refer to a person and not an inanimate object.

        You should go to Catholic Answers. There is a fellow named Randy Carson who has the names of all the theologians. The post goes back a bit however. But it is out there.

        You cannot derive your belief on Christ on what others say. You have to study what people actually believe and live out.
        I told my son the other day I no longer listen much to what people say but how they live.

        And when people live out their faith, as the apostles stated, ‘Write it down!’ there is incredible documentation. It is said the documentation at the Vatican goes out into space. Even people needing to ID someone refer back to church records. We are all named in such a big and universal church where every parish has so many people and likewise many opinions but the same faith, one Bread and One Body…not conflicting interpretations and condemning others.

  • Great. I will be the simple talking Magnum P.I and you will be the more sophisticated Higgins:

    Hopp in the boat Fr. Lets start fishing.

  • Mark T

    Thank you for your testimony Marie! This is history that I also discovered in 2010 while talking with someone from England who was attending our Mass with her daughter who was married to a Brazilian. I was amazed at this history.
    Stay Catholic and know that we are praying for you our sister in Christ

  • This is The Epistle of Shoshanna Chapter One.

    Can you share with us your Second Epistle please? I skimmed through it as you skimmed through my article and failed to quote what you found as “error”. You all do this because you are all the “true disciples” with the “true epistles”. Sort of like The Plain Truth Magazine.

  • Mark T

    While what White says may be true, he should have reflected a little more on the Words of Christ before making such a statement.

    John 15: 7* If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. 8* By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. 10* If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. 12* “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13* GREATER LOVE HAS NO MAN THAN THIS, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14* You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, * for the servant * does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16* You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 This I command you, to love one another. 18* “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20* Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also.

    • All Milk

      what does that have to do with anything White said? Then point is that it is Christ that saves us, not our works.

    • All Milk

      What does this have to do with what White said? The point is is that Christ saves us, not our works.

      • Mark T

        Oh so simply standing back and letting Jews get killed all the while claiming that “I just BOOOOLLLLEEEEEEEVVVE In JEEEEEZZZZZUS!” would have got me into heaven? What happen to the corporal works of mercy? Didn’t Jesus lay down His life for us? yes he did. Did Jesus also not tell us to be like Him? yes he did.

        Who said anything about “works” saving us? That is your protestant propaganda machine kicking into overdrive again.

        Show me the Catechesis of the Catholic Church please, that tells us Catholics we are only saved by chosing works of our own liking in order to get into heaven. Show me please. How about an Early Church Father that taught said thing?

  • motorsportsnz

    Wallid you having escaped the past life to enter via another set of revolving doors of the catholic mm
    Interesting

    • I though it was all about “Jesus” not denominations.

      Was I wrong? I abandoned all denominations and went to the only church that was not a denomination.

      Now you are trying to send me back to “revolving doors”?

  • Nonsense. The context was the CATHOLICS who saved Jews and not some Buddhists saving Jews. Please see “Them Damned Catholics” and his response.

    This was the whole crux of the argument.

    If it is not, answer please: what is the whole crux of White’s ministry to bring Catholics to Calvinism’s systematic theology.

    Is it because:

    A) White believes Catholics are saved but are in slight error?
    B) Catholics are not saved?

    If so, why not go and convert Baptist to Calvinism instead?

    The whole crux of his arguments is that the Catholic Church does not offer salvation, he does.

    But an “all milk” cannot see this.

    • Woody

      Easy even Satan only steals Hosts fromJesus Church: he can get crackers and grape juice at any food market

  • edwitness

    The Papal bulls and encyclicals that advanced and supported anti-Semitism included the following sorts of decrees:

    Special badges or dress for Jews
    Special taxes for Jews
    Forcing Jews to remit debt of Christians
    Banning, confiscating or burning Jewish law books and other writings.
    Encouraging or forcing conversion of Jews
    Expelling Jews from Papal territories or forcing Jews to live in ghettos.
    Inquisition for backsliding converted Jews,

    The Bull Cum Nimis Absurdum (“How completely absurd”) of Paul IV, 1555, which created the ghetto of Rome, began with these words:
    “As it is completely absurd and improper in the utmost that the Jews, who through their own fault were condemned by God to eternal servitude,”
    Cum nimis absurdum was a papal bull issued by Pope Paul IV dated 14 July 1555. It takes its name from its first words:[1] “Since it is absurd and utterly inconvenient that the Jews, who through their own fault were condemned by God to eternal slavery…”
    The bull revoked all the rights of the Jewish community and placed religious and economic restrictions on Jews in the Papal States, renewed anti-Jewish legislation and subjected Jews to various degradations and restrictions on their personal freedom.
    The bull established the Roman Ghetto and required the Jews of Rome, which had existed as a community since before Christian times and numbered about 2,000 at the time, to live in it. The Ghetto was a walled quarter with three gates that were locked at night. Jews were also restricted to one synagogue per city. Under the bull, Jewish males were required to wear a pointed yellow hat, and Jewish females a yellow kerchief (see yellow badge). Jews were required to attend compulsory Catholic sermons on the Jewish shabbat.
    The bull also subjected Jews to various other restrictions such as a prohibition on property ownership and practising medicine among Christians. Jews were allowed to practice only unskilled jobs, as rag men, secondhand dealers [2] or fish mongers. They could also be pawnbrokers.
    Paul IV’s successor, Pope Pius IV, enforced the creation of other ghettos in most Italian towns, and his successor, Pope Pius V, recommended them to other bordering states. The Papal States ceased to exist on 20 September 1870 when they were incorporated in the Kingdom of Italy, but the requirement that Jews live in the ghetto was only formally abolished by the Italian state in 1882. Though the Roman and other ghettos have now been abolished, the bull has never been revoked.

    The Bull Hebraeorum gens (“The Jewish Race”) 1569, of Saint Pius V, which expelled Jews from some of the Papal states, began with these words:
    “The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death. Their godlessness has assumed such forms that, for the salvation of our own people, it becomes necessary to prevent their disease. Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers; and the most damaging aspect of the matter is that they allure the unsuspecting through magical incantations, superstition, and witchcraft to the Synagogue of Satan and boast of being able to predict the future. We have carefully investigated how this revolting sect abuses the name of Christ and how harmful they are to those whose life is threatened by their deceit. On account of these and other serious matters, and because of the gravity of their crimes which increase day to day more and more, We order that, within 90 days, all Jews in our entire earthly realm of justice — in all towns, districts, and places — must depart these regions.”

    The above is quoted in modern anti-Semitic works, including Catholic publications and the Stormfront Website.

    Clearly not many papal Bulls could be termed as ‘friendly’ toward the Jew, Walid. These expose some of the Catholic sensibilities toward the Jew.
    But, as I have said before, this kind of vitriol is the least of the Catholic’s problems.

    • It was mentioned in the Article. We didn’t keep this a secret. All you are doing is to emphasis on it while you forget the rest of what was stated. Is that your goal?

    • DanlBoone

      good post. I might add that, Rome’s Augustine of Hippo, City of God, is attributed in history for getting that antisemitic theology [which also grips the protestant church in traditional Reformed and following]

      but what I’m trying to say is that Augustine played a significant role in the formal development of Replacement theology by way of allegorizing the whole of Scripture as a systematic theology. His posture was looking always for some deeper meaning for the text than what presents on the face of it..

      naturally, Israel is no longer Israel, but rather the Christian church–which is to say for Augustine, Rome is [spiritual] Israel..

      of course it followed then, that prophecy is misapplied as directly to the Church, rather than directly to Israel–where there was no church in the prophecies..

      so we get the kind of error that Rome and a large part of the protestant church succumb to with preterism, amillennialism, and so on.. because like Walid, they misapply Law and Grace..

      happens when ‘theology-so-called’ replaces Israel with the church.. we get the church going through the trib, no rapture, much legalism, and so on.. and, I don’t think that I’m telling you anything that don’t already know..

      except maybe for the history of Augustine’s allegory.. and it’s fruit in the world.

      also, none of this error can survive, if a Christian allows the Word to mean what it says on the face of of it when it is contextually, grammatically, and historically accurate and confluent..ie, dispensational theology is still the most robust systematic theology available.

      and regardless of anticipated arguments, if a Christian is sound enough in doctrine to recognize the Trinity of the Godhead, they availed a systematic theology to arrive at that knowledge.

      good chatting with ya.

      • Do protestants believe in showing quotes?

        Where are your quotes from Augustine’s City of God? They are no where to be found. Are you the historian and the theologian all in one puppy?

        Had you read the works of Augustine you would never post such a nonsense comment.

        So, unless you start to do some homework and quote Augustine, I suppose you will be put on the shelf.

        • DanlBoone

          that’s silly, Walid.. cryin’ out loud man, do you even have an idea of what you’re trying to defend?

          • You do not even know what Augustine’s book is about. It has NOTHING to do with what you wrote. I asked you to tell us and quote to us from the very Augustine you brought up. You didn’t. And now I am the one who is silly?

            “you even have an idea of what you’re trying to defend”

            Yes, the very little labrador I am looking at.

          • DanlBoone

            What is the gospel that you base your salvation on Mr. Shoebat? Can you tell me?

  • Raph Sebastian

    God bless you and all of your household too, Marie.

  • Stick with what is in the article. Any refutation? No. Just an added comment which has nothing but wind.

  • DanlBoone

    I gave you too much credit.. what is the gospel, Mr. Shoebat? Can you tell me?

    • Julie

      You need to get a catechism…you are dripping.

      • DanlBoone

        Can you say what is the gospel wherein you depend for salvation?

        • Julie

          Christ.

          You don’t believe anything we tell you.

          Go get yourself a Catholic bible and read the gospels.

          NO more silly questions.

        • Julie

          Yours came up in email.

          You have no intention of finding an answer. None whatsoever.

          • Woody

            Sic ’em, Julie! (with the truth)

        • Julie

          No interest whatsoever in seeking the truth.

          We will all be held accountable for every idle word that comes out of our mouth.

          Stop playing the games and dripping malice.

      • Julie

        Your questions drip with all sorts of the classic misconceptions.

        And secondly, these misconceptions put you on a high horse.

        When I ponder Sacred Scripture, it leads me to a greater drawing His life and graces and enlightens me in His walk for me every day.

        The reflection of Sacred Scripture does not lead me to go beyond the message of Christ’s redemption and salvation, His calling out for all people.

        Somehow yours seems to get you into another place where it leads you to go around judging other people and refusing to find out what your neighbor in Christ actually believes.

        Maybe instead of focusing on us with imagined grievances, why not put the focus back on yourself???

        • Woody

          “When I “ponder” scripture” is your heresy; you have NO Authority to “interpret scripture” and why St Paul told Timothy to “listen to the Church” which alone may interpret Scripture without error–Full Authority given to Jesus Church made up of Peter and the Apostles and their successors: “Whatsoever you BIND on earth, I SHALL BIND in Heaven; whatsoever you LOOSE on earth, I SHALL LOOSE in Heaven.” said ONLY to His ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.

          [There was NO New Testament for the first 3-5 Centuries of the Church–just a bunch of copies floating around and one was lucky enough to have one if the Monks had chosen to copy it which took many months] NO New Testament and NO Protestants as we have today. (we have over 40,000 protestant man-made churches today versus ONE CHURCH founded by God (Jesus while He was on earth and that is in Scripture) The new Testament was not completed until April 8th 1592.

          • Julie

            The Church accepted the Septuagint….are you referring to someone else?

            They reject Peter’s letter to stay away from personal interpretation.
            It is about themselves and control…Christ revolving around man made concepts.

          • Woody

            Bad bad news Julie – C=Scalia has died.

          • Julie

            Oh no!….so we get another atheist anti family. We are in for much suffering.

          • Woody

            EXactly, I need to keep repeating St Theresa of Avila’s prayer:

            “Let nothing disturb you,
            Let nothing frighten you,
            All things are passing away:
            God never changes.
            Patience obtains all things
            Whoever has God lacks
            nothing;
            God alone suffices.”
            Thank you, Terry

          • Julie

            What I am re applying today….!

          • Julie

            I think you meant someone else’s understanding.

            What I meant was that Mary pondered all things in her heart…I am referring back to our Blessed Mother and she didn’t go around knocking other people down with spins and falsehoods.

            I am referring to Bokenhoffer’s ‘History of the Church’, that all seminarians study for their first church history book that states all the books of Scripture (Septuagint) were discerned for public revelation. Yes, letters and copy of letters of apostles read at Mass…no printing press.

            But the sources drawn and preached upon were authorized by the apostles and the Church. Likewise, they tried a conciliar model of leadership…remember the American bishop pastoral councils?….that didn’t work out. So the Church fell back on the Hebrew model of having one leader instead of a panel.

            Bishops admit they vote differently when they are alone…before the Lord I assume….than when they vote on these councils and then things get watered down.

            The foundation of the Creed was likewise established by 100 AD, but not formalized as the Apostles Creed until around 200 AD. But the content and context were there.

          • Woody

            Absolutely and the Creed’s specifically mentioned the “Catholic” Church as the affirmation of belief of the early and present Christians of the time: they have guilt in it because I was in a Lutheran Church several years ago where they recited the Creed and had changed the word “Catholic” to the word “Christian” = how deceptive of them. It is what it is and was what it was”

          • Julie

            Yes…saw that happen at Lutheran church where I took a client every Sunday.

            And how the layman would get up instead of priest, after their consecration of bread and wine saying ‘it is’….he taking place of the minister.

            Yet, I ended up really liking all of them, was embraced when I came to funeral. I would read written homilies to client and for funeral. Prior the minister gave me his on the feast of All Saints…and this was the last visit my client could really listen and absorb. I also shared with him (client) Divine Mercy message. And to be humble. So at funeral the minister had to run back and bring back his other homily. I couldn’t attend on time as I was in my last class on the ‘Roots of the Papacy’…couldn’t miss that one.

  • This is the unfolding of the prophesied “falling away”
    (2 Thessalonians 2:3) whereby churches of numerous so-called “Christian” denominations shall fall away into deception and join allegiance with the antichrist. We see this happening now with World Council of Churches, Interfaith Dialogues, and the call for congregants to be “politically correct” as if all roads lead to God. They don’t. Jesus said so:
    “I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life; No Man Cometh Unto The Father But By Me.” (John 14:6)

    • Julie

      Have you looked at yourself and wondered if you are part of the great falling away? You refuse Christ’s Church and His sacraments.

  • Mark T

    All Milk

    1) You said our works don’t save us. Then when I give you an example of works done through love you say I’m stupid. Where in the Bible does Jesus say that doing works of love don’t earn merit for Heaven?

    2) A person does not need to be empowered by the belief in Jesus to recognize the horror that was inflicted upon the Jews. Might I remind you that there were atheists and agnostics who also helped saved the Jews.

    3) So an agnostic who donates money for a good cause and shows up to feed the homeless and hungry and goes oversees to help the less fortunate bears no fruit because they don’t believe in Jesus?

    • Woody

      He follows Luther not Jesus.

  • Woody

    What is the address of his new Catholic Post? I want to check it out since Walid is so right on the mark?

  • You are becoming annoying. You were given a response to all this nonsense before. While such authors love to use quotes from Will Durant on how the Catholics eliminated the dualist Cathars who believed in two gods (4) they intentionally ignore that historian Will Durant wrote that for some time the Cathari were tolerated:

    “received a broad toleration from the ecclesiastics and the secular powers of southern France. Apparently the people were allowed to choose freely between the old religion and the new.”

    Durant then reports about these pagans’ acts of terrorism;
    how in “1171 Roger II, Viscount of Béziers, sacked an abbey, threw the bishop of Albi into prison, and set a heretic to guard him.” The pagans “drove abbot and monks from the abbey of Pamiers; his horses ate oats from the altar; his soldiers used the arms and legs of the crucifixes as pestles to grind grain, and practiced their marksmanship upon the image of Christ. Count Raymond VI of Toulouse destroyed several churches, persecuted the monks of Moissac, and was excommunicated (1196)…”
(5)

    Was eliminating these qualify as “shedding the blood of saints”? This is not what Durant was saying here. He did not call these “saints”. Are you saying that Cathars are “Saints”? I insist on an answer here. YEs? No?

    Must the Church tolerate all this terrorism?

    Even Protestant England had it right as Lecky explained, in general so indulgent towards paganism in her colonies, could not tolerate the continuation among the Hindus of the ritual murder of children and the burning of widows (the Suttee), prohibiting the former under severe penalties in 1802 and the latter in 1829 (6)

    The Protestants rightfully stopped such pagan practices through violence and war.

    One could examine what England did to the Thuggees in India, who butchered millions of Indians as sacrifices to the demonic goddess Kali.

    Similarly, the only way we can argue for the rights of Cathars and Albigenses is by adapting what we espouse to fight—liberalism, religious tolerance and tolerance to terrorism.

    Isn’t that what we are at war with as Christians?

    You drank from the fountain of Dave Hunt which provided weak historic references like “E. H. Broadbent and Canon Llorente”:

    In his History of the Inquisition, Canon Llorente, who was the Secretary to the Inquisition in Madrid from 1790-92 and had access to the archives of all the tribunals, estimated that in Spain alone the number of condemned exceeded 3 million, with about 300,000 burned at the stake. (7)

    All this exaggeration “exceeds 3 million,” condemned and “300,000 burned at the stake,” while ignoring that serious historians had already debunked such outlandish claims:

    Llorente, the ex-Secretary of the Holy Office who wrote a bitterly antagonistic account of it at the beginning of the 19th century, based on manuscript material which is no longer extant, states that all told, from its foundation down to 1808, the total number of heretics burned in person in Spain alone totalled 31,912… These figures are so enormous as to seem highly suspicious. (8)

    Reputable British historian Henry Kamen stated:

    “[Llorente] came up with the incredible figures of 31,912 relaxations in person, 17,659 relaxations in effigy, and 291,450 penitents, a grand total of 341,021 victims. All the historical evidence has shown this greatly exaggerated figure to be without any foundation.” (9)

    Inquisition historian A.S. Turberville:

    Llorente put the total at nearly 32,000 [burned in person], but his method of calculation is fantastic and ridiculous. (10)

    From a book of essays by leading Inquisition historians:

    There can be little doubt, however, that in light of subsequent research, even by those more or less sharing Llorente’s animus towards the Holy Office, he can no longer be considered reliable…Clearly, Llorente also contributed substantially to the growing anti-clerical tradition in Spain in the 19th century. (11)

    Also one can read Professor Gerard Dufour, historian Mariana, professor Dumont and many others. Even Henry Charles Lea, the first major American Inquisition historian and no fan of the Catholic Church, says of the calculations of victims:

    There is no question that the number of these has been greatly exaggerated in popular belief, an exaggeration to which Llorente has largely contributed by his absurd method of computation…. (Lea, volume 4, page 517)

    Lea calls Llorente’s guesswork “reckless” and “entirely fallacious.”

    NOW HERE ARE YOUR PROTESTANT “HISTORIANS” FABRICATIONS:

    It even gets worse, our popular evangelical theologian and author, John MacArthur and in order to make this one verse in Revelation 17:6 fit, had the audacity to even inflate a number to an absolutely unsubstantiated “fifty million” martyred by the Popes, without providing any credible proof:

    According to Protestant Historian John Dowling, the Roman Catholic Church has put to death more than fifty million “heretics” between A.D. 606 (the birth of the papacy) and the mid-1800s (12)

    Comical illustration of Dowling writing

    Comical illustration of Dowling writing

    Depending on which author one reads, the numbers even extends to 68 million, 100 million, 120 million, and 150 million Bible believing Christians murdered by the Catholic Church, a history that no one in history verified; neither was the Papacy born in 606 A.D. as claimed by John MacArthur, the “reputable” theologian.

    But drilling down to find where this came from, I obtained MacArthur’s quote in which he quoted John Dowling’s The History of Romanism, Book 8, Ch. 1, pp. 542, 543:

    From the birth of Popery in 600, to the present time, it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than FIFTY MILLION of the human family have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of the existence of Popery.

    And here is the crux of all this slander: in MacArthur’s quote, “According to Protestant Historian John Dowling,” as it turns out, John Dowling was a “pastor Dowling”, not “historian,” who held his pastorates in New York, Philadelphia.

    It even gets worse, besides that Dowling has no credentials in history; Dowling, while he stated “fifty million,” he simply created such numbers out of thin air, his note explaining the number he admits:

    No computation can reach the numbers who have been put to death, in different ways, on account of their maintaining the profession of the Gospel, and opposing the corruptions of the Church of Rome, A million Waldenses and Albigenses perished during a crusade proclaimed by Pope Innocent III in 1208; beginning from the establishment of the Jesuits in 1540 to 1580, nine hundred thousand were destroyed; one hundred and fifty thousand perished by the Inquisition in 30 years; within the space of thirty-eight years after the edict of Charles V against Protestants, fifty thousand persons were hanged, beheaded, or burned alive for heresy; eighteen thousand more perished during the administration of the Duke of Alva in five and a half years … but the total amount will never be known, till the earth shall disclose her blood (13)

    Dowling even admits that “no computation” was done, that the only way to know is that “till the earth shall disclose her blood”. There was no tally, yet an enormous number was provided despite that when we examine the statement, there were no “million Waldenses and Albigenses perished”.

    After noticing the outlandish quotes, I attempted to investigate even further as to what historian with his sane mind would declare that the Papacy murdered 100 million people. I finally found the source from a book, Who Are These Three Angels, by Jeff Wehr, P.p. 31-32:

    For professing faith contrary to the teachings of the Church of Rome, history records the martyrdom of more than one hundred million people. A million Waldenses and Albigenses perished during a crusade proclaimed by Pope Innocent III in 1208; beginning from the establishment of the Jesuits in 1540 to 1580, nine hundred thousand were destroyed; one hundred and fifty thousand perished by the Inquisition in 30 years; within the space of thirty-eight years after the edict of Charles V against Protestants, fifty thousand persons were hanged, beheaded, or burned alive for heresy; eighteen thousand more perished during the administration of the Duke of Alva in five and a half years.—Brief Bible Readings for Busy People , No. 8.

    The source used by Wehr, as it turned out, was from an insignificant booklet titled A Brief Bible Studies for Busy People (page 16), which was by Frances L. Carroll.

    Carroll wasn’t even a historian but a housewife.

    You heard it right.

    It even gets worse, she was a Jehovah’s Witness serving with her husband as full-time volunteer traveling ministers of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (14)

    Carroll, the housewife, simply plagiarized Dowling’s quote and simply inserted her own “one hundred million”.

    But this is only taking a couple of quotes randomly that I was able to find a monumental fraud and outright slander. The Protestant World Christian Encyclopedia says that Roman Catholics killed 4.9 million Christians. Of course, such source lumps the Manichaeans, Arians, Cathars, Priscillianists, Paulicians, Bogomiles, Waldensians, Albigensians, Lollards and Hussites as ‘Bible believing Christian’. Eliminate these heretics and the numbers go down drastically. The “millions” figure is not supported by any serious historian. It is difficult to manipulate history without notice and is why such authors resort to theologians proclaiming them as historians. That is these are self-ordained historians.

    I had even tracked countless publications to only find out the main sources for such false information were not credible:

    Peter De Rosa (aka Neil Boyd) was not a historian (15) but an X-priest, novel writer and Professor of Metaphysics.

    John Wesley was not a historian but a theologian.

    Alexander Hislop was not a historian but a Pastor of East Free Church of Arbroath in Scotland.

    Schmucker was not a historian but a Professor of Theology.

    William Craig Brownlee was not a historian but a reverend and an American clergyman and professor of languages.

    Joseph Martin McCabe was not a historian but an x-Catholic priest.

    Charles Buck was not a historian but a reverend and author of Theological Dictionary.

    Vergerius was not a historian but a religious ‘reformer’.

    Thomas Armitage was not a historian but a Protestant theologian.

    George Bourne was not a historian but a pastor.

    Cushing B. Hassell was not a historian but a writer.

    Dr. M. Geddes was not a historian but a Chaplain.

    John B. Wilder was not a historian but a writer.

    Taylor Bunch was not a historian but a Prophecy author.

    Nathaniel Crouch (pseud. Robert Burton) was not a historian but a writer. (16)

    Henry Southwell was not a historian but a reverend.

    John Wylie was a not a historian but minister of the Free Church of Scotland.

    J. M. Carroll was not a historian but a Southern Baptist minister.

    Avro Manhattan was not a historian but a British writer.

    Charles Chiniquy was not a historian, but a Canadian x-Catholic priest who was twice suspended from his priestly ministry (for moral turpitude).

    R. W. Thompson, was not a historian but a politician.

    John William Bowden was not a historian but theologian.

    Walter j. Veith is not a historian or a “world acclaimed international lecturer” but a zoologist (17)

    Frances L. Carroll, was not a historian but simply a housewife.

    I could go on and on and on.

    Such is the type of references used by evangelical authors when they need to exaggerate historic accounts. With no accountability by a higher order, evangelical authors can do as they wish under the first amendment but as long as man is man, true science and ripe scholarship, and sound reasoning, can be only the heritage of the few. (18)

    Similarily, Tim LaHaye, in a description reminiscent to the blood libel against Jews, writes that under the Spanish Inquisition:

    “no fewer than 900,000 Protestants were put to death, in the Pope’s war for the extermination of the Waldenses. Think of monks and priests directing, with heartless cruelty and inhuman brutality, the work of torturing and burning alive innocent men and women; and doing it in the Name of Christ, by the direct order of the “Vicar of Christ.” (LaHaye, Revelation Unveiled)

    How could 900,000 Protestants be killed in the Pope’s war against the Waldenses when the Waldenses were hundreds of years before the Protestant Reformation?

    But we are not willing to remove our books anytime soon and neither will we repent, instead, we choose to slander.

    So who truly “drank the blood of the saints”?

    Perhaps we can go to what is missing in the equation #1—THE ABSENCE OF CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM WARS; all these Islamic wars against the Catholic Church and Eastern Byzantium with the millions that no historian can even estimate; it was the heretic Unitarian Muslim who denied Father and Son were the ones who killed the Christians.

    Isn’t it then time that we at least unite on this truth?

    Part of confronting the truth is coming to realization that Christians, both Protestant and Catholic, are being slaughtered every day. Please, give what you can to save the lives of your fellow Christians

    1 MacArthur, Preaching: How to Preach Biblically, ch. 3

    2 LaHaye, Revelation Unveiled

    3 Dave Hunt, James White, Debating Calvinism

    4 Anne Bradford Townsend, The Cathars of Languedoc as Heretics, P.p 49

    5 Will Durant, The Age of Faith

    6 (cf. Lecky, “Democracy and Liberty”, I, 1896, pp. 424 sqq.)

    7 Dave Hunt, A Woman Rides the Beast, page 79, also 242

    8 Cecil Roth [orig 1937], page 123

    9 Henry Kamen [orig 1965], page 280-1

    10 A.S. Turberville [orig 1932], page 112

    11 Paul J. Hauben [1969], page 31, from chapter “Juan Antonio Llorente: A Spanish Anti-Clerical View”

    12 The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, John 12-21, P.p. 181, Italics mine

    13 John Dowling’s The History of Romanism, Book 8, Ch. 1, pp. 542

    14 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=119716814

    15 http://www.andrewnurnberg.com/authors/peter-de-rosa/

    16 CROUCH’S “RELATION OF THE GREAT COUNCIL OF JEWS,” 1796, WITH AN “ACCOUNT OF THE WONDERFUL DELUSION OF THE JEWS BY A FALSE MESSIAH” Brett’s account of the “Great Council of the Jews in the Plains of Hungary in 1650 to Examine the Scriptures Concerning Christ” is today discredited as purely fictional— originally spawned by the Puritan Revolution in England in hopes of converting Jews to Christianity

    17 http://walterveith.com/walter-veith-bio.html Professor Walter J. Veith, calims a “PhD Zoology and an ardent student of history and prophecy”, historian Jeff Crocombe, finds serious faults with some references Veith puts forward as ‘facts’

    18 The American Catholic Quarterly Review, Volume II, P.p. 498

    • Woody

      Gee Walid I should have known you already knew he is a phony and you posted all his ignorant anti-Catholic. references … Im glad you kept it short so as to not embarrass him–he always gets caught on all sites. He should have stayed in school. GodBless. Dont forget Im buying you a beer inside the Angelic Tavern. No surprise but the only guy that agrees with him is SumsRant a guy who admits to being booted off of 14 Sites

      • I put up with them. They come in here spinning spiders web and simply think they do God a service while defending the Cathars because the Cathars are like them.

        I’ll take the beer 😉

  • “We miss you Grant, but we will be seeing you soon brother.”

    Praying to dead saints heh? So long their are of your denominational persuasion?

    Strange, I knew Grant personally and I do not address him in this way.

  • Have you answered: Is rape and molestation “destined”?
    Was the theology of these martyrs systematic theology?
    Does James say that Catholics who fought Islam are martyrs?
    Where was Calvinism during the persecution of Catholics and Orthodox during the Islamic rule?

    When it comes to the persecution of the church, the Protestants hang on a thread. The devil is after the Catholic and the Orthodox. I dare you to show us where did the Protestants go to convert people?

    Have you answered a single question?

    What a refutation. You sound like the Führer’s sycophants and when one tries to reason with the bigot, one simply throws their pearls to pigs.

    “You need to apologize to him for mischaracterizing his words.”

    Make an icon of your Calvinist Führer, and then stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. Get lost. You wasted my time.

  • Woody

    This guy is so prejudiced and why the reknowned Protestant Theologian says “dont listen to Protestants for they are ptejudiced Ill go they are BLIND”. Notice his LONG posts he is on other sites known as “the Cut and Pass’ter as he cannot think on his own.,,he robs stuff from other anti-Catholics and presents as his own ignorance.

    • he acts as if Carroll, Durant, and Sherman were all writing on how the Catholics massacred Protestants.

      They ignore that Durant was writing about the Cathars. They do not even know what a Cathari is. The only thing they know is to drink from a Catheter from whatever leaks from the orifice of some conspiracy theorist.

  • Woody

    Correct His One Holy Catholic Church is NOT a denomination -A denomination needs more than One – Jesus is God and founded His own Church, 266 Bishops of Rome back

  • Reg-Thoris Sappie

    Amen Lisa..”jesus said to the jews, (and He could well be speaking to the moslems) I know that you are the children of Abraham, but you seak to kill me, because my WORD has no place in you”.

    “Gods Spirit aka “The Word” has NO place in them

    Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have HEARD of God: this did not Abraham.

    Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, If God were your father, you would love Me, for I went forth and came from God; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me.

    Joh 8:43 Why do you not know My speech? Because you cannot hear My Word.

    Joh 8:47 He who is of God hears God’s Words. Therefore you do not hear them because you are not of God.

    Jesus speaks as a Prophet Greater than Moses cuz Gods Spirit is IN Him

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    The “Word” is the “Distributable” Spirit of God that came to Live in Jesus from Conception and Kept Him from Sin

    Act 2:3 And tongues as of fire appeared to them, being “Distributable” distributed; and it sat upon each of them. <

    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    John 1:14 And the Word was (G1096

    be divided into) flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Jesus speaks as a Prophet Greater than Moses cuz Gods Spirit is IN Him

    Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    :18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared

    Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

    :42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I PROCEEDED proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    :43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my Word. (Gods Spirit)

    • Julie

      And we also have to go beyond the Bible. Where is the Christian witness after Revelations was written? Where are the lives recorded that demonstrate and give testimony to the new life in Christ? In the Church and the lives of the saints who we venerate today.

  • DanlBoone

    good stuff bro, good stuff.

  • Woody

    Yes, and Catholics do have Charismatics now and from what I gather is that mainline Protestants put pressure on their form of charismatics, beginning in Pittsburgh and Notre Dame Catholics investigated, and Rome does now approve them. I went to one of their prayer meetings a few years ago and gradually begin to meet the people whom I love, and soon I saw and felt the many HS things involved in the union. God Bless

    • Julie

      Yes.

      When I was young, some of them thought only the Lord worked through them, even thinking they were more into the Lord than some good priests.

      I remember a fellow layman in ministry who was so incensed by them saying they have the Lord more than him…really ticked him off. He looks a little like Barnie Sanders, Ind. and does great ministry with young people, highly intelligent.

      • Woody

        I recall my first prayer meeting; at the end of Mass we were invited up to the altar to get a blessing from the leader of the Charismatics (a nice lady) Now I was on the end of the circle with 5 women on my left.
        I took the blessing and could not understand what she was saying (later learned it was Tongues) Next the lady on my right dropped right to the floor, then the next and the next–soon I was the one one standing so I bent over and put my face to the first lady–she looked so peaceful-anyway I got scared ran out of the church–just as I was going out the back door an old lady came in and said “What is the matter young man?” I told her the story and said I fell guilty because I did not drop.
        She smiled and said, “Ohh, that is because you were full of the Holy Spirit to begin with.” How kind I thought.

        • Julie

          Interesting.

          This is something….I had a friend who was an exemplary Christian who would pray out of an old booklet for years. He lost his job in the stock market, and went to work in some type of quarry to continue to support his family.

          He headed the evangelization team about 12 years ago, and was highly thought of by many in various parishes.

          Anyway, we had a big visit after Mass, spoke for almost 2 hours. We both had supernatural experiences in our local church. He told me he went to a charismatic meeting. There was a woman there he had some kind of sense about. She demonstrated something and the priest with them approached to bless her and she left.

          That night my friend was sleeping and had this horrific dream of an African mask coming to him. He spoke to the priest and told him he was being hit by the devil.

          There was some event that happened again with this woman prior to his dream but I cannot remember exactly what.

          I was with some people who were with this woman who was a Pentecostal and was running a home for young people. She prayed over me and told me I would serve overseas on my own with no church. I knew she was wrong.

          I don’t drop either when I have gone for healing. Haven’t been to one for some time. They have really waned in this diocese..the charismatics I mean.

          • Woody

            Well, there;s more. I went to Charismatic meetings for 3 years, and I told the head “I have never spoke in Tongues or anything.” So she said, “Oh you have to take the course “Life in the Spirit Seminar.’ So i took a one day version and didn’t feel anything. When I went the retreat that year, I walked in and spotted the leader. I said “Hey> I took the course and don’t speak Tongues.” She glanced up at me and :yelled “Want to bet.” Later that evening I came out of the Men’s Room and saw everyone with one hand on each others shoulder and praying. A young lady rushed up to me and asked “Will you pray with me?’ Sure so I put my hand on her shoulder as she prayed which I knew now was in Tongues.” So she said, “Now you pray.” I began and stopped saying “i am sorry but I don’t pray in tongues.” She said, “But you are praying in Tongues.” Our leader said, I will never lose that ability and i haven’t.
            That same night I kept crying over anything and I told the same girl I had prayed with. She said, “Oh, you seem to have gotten the “gift of TEARS.” too.
            A week later I was going to an open house at a Catholic radio started and on the way the radio a sad story was on. I began to cry.

            Entering the station the secretary looked at me and followed me to the back room, then noticed and asked. “Sir are you crying is here something wrong?” I told her the story and she said “You must have been hanging around with Jackie lately.” Jackie it the head of the Charismatics. My wife don’t hang with me no more since she has tto explain me and now she just says “Oh, he cries over anything.’
            I love the people who attend he meetings. Again, later at the last one I did drop to the floor and was out for 11 minutes – what a peaceful sleep. They call it “Slain in the Spirit”

  • Woody

    So you gave up Jesus’ Body and Blood for crackers and grape juice–some victory.

  • Woody

    Yah, like we wouldn’t have a relationship with our Founder and who has a closer relationship that those of us who Eat of His Flesh and Drink of His Blood,
    “Unless you Eat of My Flesh and Drink of My Blood you shall have NO LIFE within you.” Pretty clear of who is closer to Jesus.

    • They drop a testimony and leave. Its the grasshopper syndrome.

  • Woody

    Yes, he is one who follows Luther not Jesus…rejecting the Apostle James clear statement that “Faith without Works is DEAD.” as Jesus’ One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church teaches both Faith and Works are necessary..we are to cloth the naked, feed the hungry, visit the imprisoned, etc We cannot accept one part of the Bible and reject other parts we do not like

  • Woody

    — History – google LePanto
    — Statues and Icons – see Walid’s excellent research on what the early church looked like
    — The peace and reverence you felt is the Body and Blood Soul and Divinity being truly present in the Tabernacle

  • Woody

    Beyonce is a self-confessed Satanist as is Jim Carrey

  • Ed,

    Adding a long tail to a simple argument will be chopped off. First things first. If after we iron this out and you still desire to throw in more grenades that will be fine. But you failed to answer a simple question: are the Catars “saints”?

    It is a yes or No. If yes why? if no why?

    Had you looked these up you would find out they were equivalent to today’s ISIS.

    Yet you were defending them.

    This is the reason why your arguments would sound like the typical liberal who would object bombing ISIS.

    • Woody

      SOUND LIKE EDNONWITNESS SPRUNG A LEAK!!!!!!! OH-YEAHHHHHHHHHHH

      • He sprung another leak and I just gave him another pepper to plug it with. See above. Grasshoppers I tell you. Just grasshoppers.

        • Woody

          Did you notice the doubt in Ednon-witness’s voice as he has to YELL to get his ERRORS across?

  • Woody

    One can pray to anyone – all it is is asking for help from one who did God’s will while on earth — just as we ask our neighbor’s for help here on earth…no one makes Mary a God (this is in the minds of Protestants only) No one ever said we cannot go Directly to Jesus anymore than we can go directly to the Holy Spirit or anymore than we can go directly to God the Father….
    Jesus gave the power to forgive Sins to the first Bishops the Apostles which has been passed down throughout the Ages “Whose sins you shall FORGIVE, they ARE FORGIVEN them; whose sins you shall RETAIN they are RETAINED.”
    (Notice that sins are not ALWAYS forgiven one, and the only way for one to make this kind of choice is for SOMEONE TO HEAR THEM.
    Padre Pio often withheld absolution is he felt the sinner was not repentant (sorrow) during the confession.
    You have made yourself your own god thus are highly confused – We must obey ALL that Jesus teaches not just look around and choose the verses we like.

  • The problem is that you do not identify the dualities in the scriptures. For example, while most are consumed with the earthly Mount Zion, they forget; the Heavenly Mount Zion where the saints reside “in My Holy Mountain” and not “on My Holy Mountain”, with the saints, the angels and with Christ, and from their the angels will sound the Trumpet of God: “Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain!” (Joel 2:2).

    This is the place which in Hebrews speaks of heavenly Mount Zion which is the goal of the Christian to come to God through his continual access and a lifetime supplication to connect to the Heavenly Mount Zion:

    “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.” (Hebrews 12:22-24)

    This is the whole goal and process of salvation, that is, to transform us striving to become “the righteous” who are “made perfect”. This is the communion between the Church Militant on earth and the Church Triumphant in heavenly Mount Zion, where the saints, angels and The Trinity reside.

    Have you really come to Mount Zion? When was the last time you have come to “angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant”

    You strictly argue to ONLY come to Jesus.

    The lazy servant argued that the master “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed…”

    The lazy tells Jesus that it was other (saints) who sowed the seed, they did the work, that Jesus should have DIRECTLY did it.

    And what does Jesus tell this lazy (only Jesus should do it)?

    “You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?”

    Jesus does not have to be the exclusive one to do everything, He commissions others.

    I deal with many of these issues here:

    http://shoebat.com/2016/01/25/91567/

    • Woody

      “Jesus does not have to be the exclusive one to do everything, He commissions others.”

      You hit it; this is the issue most protestants do not understand, i.e., they think Jesus does everything on His own.”

      Compare it to the CEO’s here on earth’ Jesus is the CEO and like any good CEO, He delegates duties to His flock;
      Look, at Mary, being delegated to bring more Faithful to Him at Lourdes, and Fatima, and elsewhere (Guadalupe), – how many souls have been brought to Him by Her diligent obedience to Her Son.

      In her only surviving letter, she shows that her only duty is to bring more souls to her Son: (to the people of Messina)

      “I Mary, Virgin, servant of God, very humble servant of Jesus Christ, Son of God, the Almighty and Eternal, to all who are in Messina, health and benediction in Our Lord! You have learned by the Ambassadors who have been sent to you. You received the Gospel and you acknowledged that the Son of God has become man, and has suffered the Passion and death for the salvation of the world, and that He is Christ and also the true Messiah. I beseech you to persevere, promising to you and all your posterity, to assist you in the presence of my Son.”

      Thank you, Mary, always able to assist in bringing sinners to your Son. (just as the NT describes your intercession for the bride and groom at Cana)

      Look at Jesus appearances to St. Faustina during the late 30’s almost begging her to establish the “Divine Mercy Devotion” which is growing by leaps and bounds in the Church today. I love her. She is something else.
      Paraphrasing: As she came out of the confessional she said to Him, “I don’t have to associate with you anymore.”
      “Really. Jesus said, “how so.”
      “My confessor told me that.”
      Jesus. “hmm, I will have to have a talk with him.”
      [as a side note: the confessor did not believe she was seeing Jesus at the time]
      Another time:
      “Jesus I would like you to save the souls of all who are to die tomorrow.”
      Paraphrased: “Wow you don’t ask for much do you?” “Okay I will do that.”
      Today, the Divine Mercy Devotion is the Sunday after Easter.

      • (Woody) “…most protestants do not understand, i.e., they think Jesus does everything on His own.”

        Hmmm… most believers understand that an individual cannot do anything of true faith and substance without Jesus guiding their way, else, they would claim their achievements were of their own.

        “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” (John 15:5)

        • Woody

          WhaT I object to is saying “we cannot pray to anyone other than Jesus; this is nonsense; just a on on earth sometimes I want a favor so I don’t go directly to that person – I go to his or her best friend–what that says, “let’s take St. Padre Pio who suffered for 50 years with Jesus five sacred woulds (there are really six but one is not in Scripture); think about him losing cups of blood each day for fifty years and him spending hours upon hours in the confessional; thus I know Jesus is “best” friend with him; so I ask “Padre” put in a good word for me.”
          Protestants are less than straightforward on this also, for all of my protestants friends I hear saying “My wife is sick, pray for her,” will you. So why is it wrong to pray (which is basically what this is)–going to his friend for succor in his suffering. The only reason they do this then is “anti-Catholic” which is what the Protestant Theologian Harnack says is a “sickness of prejudice.” It sure is.
          As the # CEO–Jesus, Abba, the HS often delegates what He wants from others, and why He used Moses, David, etc to accomplish all the things He wanted done on earth. The Lord also uses earthly things to do His Will, such as the “waters” at Lourdes to heal people of diseases which are “un-healable.” (my word) no one ever denies Jesus being present everywhere as God.
          “Intercessionary prayer” is even well illustrated in scripture as the bride and groom at Cana (Jesus first sign), went NOT to Jesus for Help, but to Mary who went to Jesus and with just 4 simple words Jesus, humbly obeying his Mom in accord with “honor thy Father and thy Mother, “They have no wine.” Something like 70 Jars of water-filled jugs became “the best wine” at the wedding.

          • Sure, people ask others to pray for them all the time. No problem with that. However, when you pray, why pray to a third party individual when you can pray directly to Jesus yourself and present your petitions before Him? That’s the authority and privilege that we, as believers, have; to have direct fellowship with Christ and spiritual guidance and empowerment through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

          • Woody

            We pray to Jesus also; Jesus is present in every Mass, in every Eucharist; it is not us who say “only Jesus” is to be prayed to.” Nonsense. “Wherever two or three are together I am there.”
            Why does He send His Mom at Lourdes where millions have prayed during the years or at Fatima? (also now in Egypt) Not because He wants the world to ignore Her–Her only role is to bring more to men and women to Him (and I know many Her through Her efforts. who have been brought to . Why does it matter “why” is any question when you say “Sure.” I light candles and leave prayers behind. Mary loved it and sent me a miracle picture in 2011 “thanking me.” Thank you, Mom.

          • Okay, thanks, Woody. Question: When you pray to Jesus, is it only at Mass and in the Eucharist, or do you personally pray directly to Him throughout the day, any day, anytime, when seeking His guidance? Have you invited Jesus to be Lord of your life?

          • Woody

            Sorry, I just saw this…Of course we pray for Him to be Lord of our lives; He is God and Whom we want to live with Him for all eternity. I had to laugh I heard the head speaker who said one day she particularly needed a special favor from Jesus so she went to Perpetual Adoration (this is when Jesus is exposed in the Holy Eucharist for every hour of every day, and we go sit with Him assuring that He is NEVER ALONE) Well, anyway she kept praying and praying and praying to Him,,,no answer, finally after nearly two hours a voice (Jesus) spoke to her and said, “You know I haven’t said anything because every once and a while I just yearn for a little company, just to sit with me, the quiet and peace of no talking.” I laughed and so did she, saying “I guess He told me to keep my mouth shut sometimes. But I am a lady.”
            Some Christians do not believe in the doctrine of the Real Presence (name); however ALL Christians universally believed this and it was never questioned until the 5th Century. This is His Greatest miracle, so generous of Him. As far as I know all Apostolic Churches, Eastern or Western Rite believe to this day.
            [We also have what is called a “Spiritual Communion” should be for some reason unable to get to Mass or are in sin (need to get to confession before we go or we do what St Paul says, …not to receive Him “unworthily”] A Spiritual Communion is a special prayer to Him.
            I love Communion seeing nothing more personal than seeing His Body Blood and Divinity merge with my body and blood. God Bless

          • “I love Communion seeing nothing more personal than seeing His Body Blood and Divinity merge with my body and blood. ”

            Why didn’t you tell me about this 20 years ago? You had me roaming round about this whole time without telling me this?

          • Woody

            Some other times I like to use the special prayers He asks for which are overly generous on His part; Times when He appears to His Saints and gives them special favors:
            This is one of my favorite:
            A way back He appeared to 3 Saints: st. Elizabeth, Queen of Hungary, with St. Matilda, and St. Bridget, AND at one point gave them this:
            “To all those faithful who shall recite for 3 years, each day 2 Our Fathers, Hail Mary’s and Glory Be to the Fathers, in honor of the drops of Blood I lost, I will concede the following 5 graces:
            1st. The plenary indulgence and remittance of your sins.
            2nd. You will be free from the pains of Purgatory
            3rd. If you should die before completing the said 3 years, for you it will be the same as if you had completed them. (WOW)
            4th It will be upon your death the same as if you had shed all your blood for the holy faith.
            5th I will descend from heaven to take your soul and that of your relatives, until the fourth generation. (WOW)

            He does tell us the number of “the drops of blood He lost were 28,430.”

            WHAT A DEAL, HUH!
            God Bless,

          • Yes, Woody, we serve a pretty neat God; the True God of Creation. Jesus’ words are always to guide and comfort those who trust completely in Him and with the reassurance that He will never leave us nor forsake us regardless of the situations we face in this life:
            “Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.” (Hebrews 13:5-6) Blessings to you and yours. 🙂

    • Julie

      Beautiful answer. Authentic Christian answers always reflect the truth and beauty of the Lord.

      The Mass is the first step into heaven.

      I went to Mass late one time. Can’t remember the reason. But I looked at everyone standing at the Gospel. It was as if all together as Church the Lord was drawing them closer to Him.

      If we avoid mortal sin, each day is a step closer to the Lord.

      The private Carmelite interpretation of the mountain is our struggle climbing up to Christ over our sins.

      Mother Mary of Carmel, the greatest of contemplatives, walks with us climbing the Mountain of the Lord to achieve perfect union with Him in the next life.

      • Woody

        Yes, right on Julie (your reverence for the Mass):

        The Value of the Mass:

        – The first Mass was said at the Last Supper by Jesus Who ordered “Do this in Commemoration of Me.

        – Mass is the most perfect form of prayer (Paul VI)

        – For each Mass we hear with devotion, Our Lord sends a saint to comfort us at death (Jesus told St Gertrude the Great)

        – Every Mass has a marvelous effect on our soul. It is easier for the earth to exist without the Sun than without the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (Jesus to Padre Pio)

        – If we knew the value of the Mass we would die of joy. (St John Vianney)

        – Your prayers are strongest at the Consecration in Holy Mass (at the point the bread and wine is changed into His Body and Blood)

        – Each time we look at the most Blessed Sacrament (the Eucharist) our place in Heaven is raised forever (Jesus to St Gertrude the Great)

        – Once St Theresa of Avila was overwhelmed with God’s Goodness, she asked Our Lord, “How can I thank you?”

        He answered, “ATTEND ONE MASS.”

        – Mary told Blessed Alain: “My Son so loves those who assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that if it were necessary, He would die for them as many times as they’ve heard Masses.”

        (MORE) if you still inquire

        GRACES Derived from Assisting At Mass:

        The Mass is Calvary continued.

        Every Mass is worth as much as the Sacrifice of Our Lord’s life, sufferings and death.

        Holy Mass is the most powerful atonement for your sins.

        At the hour of your death, the Masses you have heard will be your greatest consolation .

        Every Mass you have heard will go to you go Judgment and plead for pardon.

        At Mass you can diminish more or less temporary punishment due to your sins, according to your fervor.

        Assisting devoutly at Holy Mass, you render to the sacred humanity of Our Lord the greatest homage.

        He supplies for many of your negligence’s and omissions.

        He forgives the venial sins which you have not confessed. The power over Satan over you is diminished.

        You afford the Souls in purgatory the greatest possible relief.

        One Mass heard during life will be of more benefit to you than many heard after your death.

        You are preserved from dangers and misfortunes which otherwise might have befallen you. You shorten your purgatory.

        Every Mass wins for you a higher degree of glory in heaven.

        You receive the priest’s blessing which Our Lord ratifies in Heaven.

        You kneel amidst a multitude of holy angels who are present at the adorable Sacrifice with reverential awe.

        You are blessed in your temporal goods and affairs. In Eternity we shall fully realize that it was certainly worthwhile to have assisted at Mass Daily, receiving Our Lord’s Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity.

        Pray for priests that they may offer Mass with Holy love and reverence.

        God Bless all here.–Mass is no small thing.

        • Julie

          Thank you….just came home this am. Thanks for all the work for putting this out and I hope those indoctrinated by falsehood will take a second look.

          Try Fr Driscoll,’ What Happens at Mass’. or Tom Nash, ‘Biblical Roots of the Mass’. It was a series last Lent on EWTN.

  • Name me one Christian who does not belong to a denomination?

    I have seen many who belong to non-denominational denomination.

    Are these whom you are speaking of?

    • edwitness

      Edwitness. There’s one. I also have many brothers and sisters in Christ who do not ‘belong’ to a denomination as well. We fellowship as they did in the book of Acts. No clubs. Just Christians. Jesus told His disciples regarding the creation of a club with ‘leaders’ “But you shall not be so.” Luke22:26.

      No I am not speaking of non-denominational churches.

      • You didn’t get it. You are a non-denominational denomination.

        See the last word above?

        • Trevor

          Wow. He horribly butchered Jesus’ point in Luke 22.

          If he had bothered to read through from Luke 22:24-28, Jesus was talking about establishing His kingdom and endowing His authority among the disciples as equal with Jesus as the Head. It is what led to the Schism between Rome and the Eastern Church. Namely over the Papacy authority. According to the Eastern Orthodox Church, Rome overstepped its authoritative boundary, and insists on Rome being called “First Among Equals.”

          The more I dig into the Apostolic Succession Church, the more convinced I am that the evangelicals are not the answer, even though there are a few good men such as Franklin Graham.

          The Coptic Church have their own Pope based on the Holy See of Mark. Their theology are more in line with Rome, minus a few key doctrines, and more close with the Russia Orthodox Church and Eastern Orthodox Churches. Yet, I do not see anyone arguing that the Orthodoxy branches are evil. It’s always Rome that is evil. I would also add that it was the late pope, His Holiness Pope Shenouda’s work on “Comparatively Theology” that changed my heart against Catholicism, and begun the journey to embrace Christian orthodoxy.

          Yet, Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill met in Cuba to sign a joint declaration which appears to be a step in positive direction to help bring to close the Great Schism. Here is the text of the joint declaration Francis and Kirill signed. I know the road ahead will be fraught with difficulty as the healing of the breach appears to be closing, but I am confidence and hopeful in the future that as Christ prayed in the garden, that as the Father and the Son is One, the Church will remain One.

          God bless, Walid. God bless, Maria. God bless, Theodore.

  • You were given the detail for your refutation:

    http://shoebat.com/2016/01/25/91567/

    He is reading it to either accept or refute. You on the other hand seem to simply want to chase everyone on my site to post comments like this. You give Matthew 15:17 as evidence for your claim, yet you do not explain it.

    Matthew 15:17 is not about communion. It is about YOU:

    “Don’t you know that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and then is expelled as waste? 18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and it is those things that make a person unclean. 19 It is out of the heart that evil thoughts come, as well as murder, adultery, sexual immorality, stealing, false testimony, and slander.[a] 20 These are the things that make a person unclean. But eating with unwashed hands doesn’t make a person unclean.”

    It is about folks who insist on keeping the Jewish sabbath and the kosher laws. Jesus rebuked them and said that it is what comes out of a man, especially slander as you well have been doing the whole time on my blog.

  • DanlBoone

    Given Rome’s disdain for the Bible in lieu of her own mechanistic traditions, you’ve probably never received any sound teaching about the Lord’s first public miracle at the wedding feats at Cana.

    You would do well to examine the Word in it. Something you might consider noteworthy in light of Rome’s infernal sacramentalism is the fact that that “best” [or New Wine] is a type of the Lord’s blood shed for our salvation.

    The urns that contained the water which He turned to wine, were containing water for laverings, that is, it was baptismal water.

    Like most of the protestant church, Rome continues in the error of attributing some salvific quality to the water.. this is a mock to the blood of the Lamb.

    Were you to seek the Lord for, and find the grace to hold tightly to the Saviour, letting all else [Rome primarily in this post’s context] you would undoubtedly find the truth of the gospel much more fulfilling, much more powerful, and real and authentic, than the Romish traditions which hold you bound in a religiosity, instead of growing in the knowledge and grace of Christ [sic].

    • Trevor

      You know…your bark is worse than your bite.

      Tell me, what do you think of the Coptic Church?

      • DanlBoone

        Can you say what is the gospel?

        • Trevor

          The Gospel of Jesus Christ, preached by the Apostles, entrusted to their disciples, who in turn entrusted to generation of apostles, with an unbroken chain.

          The Gospel is as followed: In the fullness of time, Jesus was born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, being fully Man and fully God, for His Father being God, was sinless because as the Law stated, God will visit the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generation, and since God does not know sin, Jesus therefore being pure and without spot knew no sin. Jesus is the Savior of the World, seen by men, and received to glory until the fullness of time come for His return.

          The Church have steadfastly taught that salvation is found in Christ and the Church, being charged with the Great Commission to teach and make disciples of all nations to observe all things that Christ have taught and commanded, and the Church is the bulwark and pillar of the truth. Bulwark meaning defensive wall and pillar of truth meaning bearer of the truth. Therefore, the Church is presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ by being faithful to the Great Commission. It is with great regret the Protestant Reformation broke away from the root of the Faith and in doing so, created splinter after splinter with no end in sight, where a man can claim to be a preacher and start up his own Church to the dismay of the apostolic succession church.

          It is also with regret that Rome continues to be slandered daily, yet in spite of the slandering received, people continue to come into Christian orthodoxy, whether it is being Catholic or Orthodox, because of the timeless truth that was safeguarded by the first apostles and generation of apostles thereafter who continued to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

          The Church continues to preach the Good News and at the same time wait with great hope of the Glorious Appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. The Church will endure the Great Tribulation and those who endure to the end will be saved. Then Jesus will return and there will be followed a resurrection of the dead and Christ will judge the living and the dead.

          Now, your turn. What do you think of the Coptic Church?

          • DanlBoone

            well, it was effort on your part anyhow.. even if all you are able is to copy/paste from a Catholic referent.

          • Trevor

            Therefore, it is with regret that I see your heart has been hardened.

            And nope, I wrote all that off the top of my head.

            One more time, what do you think of the Coptic Church?

          • Julie

            What is the great church you belong to that is so great? Why are not spreading it instead of going around making false accusations…Chick booklets….SDA…Jehovah Witnesses…the 1800’s true cult.

          • Woody

            I can’t argue with that but I knew it wouldn’t satisfy him; I am glad you got Paul in there showing “the Church is the bulwark and pillar of the truth..” not scripture by “self-interpretation.”

          • Trevor

            The Church is the defender and bearer of the truth, that is what Paul was saying. That’s why he instructed Timothy to study.

        • Julie

          Go get a Catholic bible and look at the gospels, and stop trolling around here with your talk.

          You don’t even know what you are talking about.

    • Julie

      What the ‘h’ are you talking about???????????????

      What kind of junk are you reading anyway?

      Have you even gone to a Catholic church and gone to Sunday Mass?

    • Woody

      I will say one thing for you–you are like Edwinnon-witness, a uniquie heretic that stands alone.

      “Rome’s disdain for the bible” what a joke!

      Rome gave us the NT–there were no protestants untll 1517 yet today they think they know all about it, having morphed into over 40,000 heretical churches, after mangling scripture with “self-interpretations” instead of following Paul who told Timothy “…listen to the CHURCH. (not to self-interpret scripture) Only the Church under Peter was promised “Whatsoever you BIND on earth I will BIND in Heaven; whatsoever you LOOSED upon earth I SHALL LOOSE IN HEAVEN.”
      No fuller authority was ever given by God (Jesus)

      As far as the NT goes here is the truth from the early Church Fathers AND Historians:

      Begin with the Muratorian Fragment (so-called because it represents only a portion of the actual second-century document discovered in 1740 by Lodovico Antonio Muratori), is the oldest extant listing of New Testament-era books revered by early Christians. It was written sometime between 155 and 200. Patristic scholars believe the unknown author originally wrote the list in Greek (since the Latin is very poor), but the oldest copy available is an eighth-century Latin manuscript.

      Although the Muratorian Fragment is important in studying how the early Church developed the New Testament canon, it doesn’t give exactly the same list of books that was later adopted as canonical at the councils of Hippo and Carthage. The Muratorian Fragment is just that: a FRAGMENT of a larger list of books which were considered canonical or quasi-canonical during the second century.

      The Fragment itself provides us with a good, though incomplete idea of this early canon. Virtually the entire New Testament canon as we know it is represented: the Gospels of Luke and John (preceded by what seems to be an allusion to the Gospel of Mark), Acts, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, Philemon, Titus, 1 & 2 Timothy, Jude, two letters of John (since the fragment simply says “the two ascribed to John,” we don’t know which two of his three letters are meant), and Revelation.

      The unknown author adds other non-canonical books to this line- up: the so-called Pauline Epistles to the Laodiceans and to the Alexandrians (about which the Fragment’s author expresses his conviction that they were not authored by Paul), the Wisdom Written by the Friends of Solomon in His Honor, the Apocalypse of Peter, The Shepherd (written by Hermas). The Fragment’s list is cut short abruptly with a final, enigmatic phrase which may indicate that the author had gone on to include still other non-inspired writings: “Those also who wrote the new book of psalms for Marcion, together with Basilides, the founder of the Asian Cataphrygians.”

      As you can see, although the Muratorian Fragment lists most of the New Testament books, it’s missing a few (e.g. Matthew, James, 3 John), and it adds several works which are not inspired.

      These facts demonstrate that, although the Fragment came close, it did not represent the actual canon of inspired Scripture. Further, there is no internal evidence in the document that it sought to represent any kind of official canon that was regarded by the Church as binding.

      In the first four centuries of the Church many books, such as the seven letters of Ignatius, the Letter of Clement [the fourth pope] to the Corinthians, the Didache, and The Shepherd were revered by many Christians as inspired but were later shown to be non-inspired.

      It was not until the Councils of Hippo and Carthage that the Catholic Church defined which books made it into the New Testament and which didn’t. Probably the Council fathers studied the (complete) Muratorian Fragment and other documents, including, of course, the books in question themselves, but it was not until these Councils that the Church officially settled the issue.

      The plain fact of the matter is that the canon of the Bible was not settled in the first years of the Church. It was settled only after repeated (and perhaps heated) discussions, and the final listing was determined by Catholic Bishops. This is an inescapable fact, no matter how many people wish to escape from it.

      ———————————————————————–

      More like this

      Did the Church add the Deuterocanonical books to the Bible at the Council of Trent?

      Canon of the Holy Scriptures

      Didn’t the Catholic Church add to the Bible?

      Muratorian Canon

      Did the Council of Carthage select only the books of the New Testament for the canon?

      Recommended References

      Did the early Christians have any fiction?

      How did the Old Testament canon develop?

      Tracts

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      The Inquisition

      Jesus: Lunatic, Liar, or Lord?

      Q&A Open Forum

      Did the Council of Carthage select only the books of the New Testament for the canon?

      Magazine Articles

      Did St. Paul Invent Christianity?

      Are the Gospels Myth?

      Error Begets Error

      Quotes and Rumors of Quotes

      Belmont Abbey

      Catholic Answers

      Verbum

      Ignatius Press

      History of the Catholic Church: From the Apostolic Age to the Third Millennium

      The history of the Catholic Church is long, complicated, and fascinating, and in History of the Catholic Church: From the Apostolic Age to the Third Millennium it is expertly and ably told by historian James Hitchcock.

      “Time is not our own, and we must give a strict account of it.”

      ~ Toribio Mogrovejo, of noble birth, educated at the finest schools, law professor at the University of Salamanca, Spain; who became a tireless missionary, baptizing nearly 500,000 as Archbishop of Lima, including St. Rose of Lima, St. Francis Solano, and St. Martin of Porres. Canonized in 1726.

    • Julie

      Do you know about the other patriarchs?

    • Woody

      You made your bed; lie in it; you stick with your “crackers and grape juice.”
      I’ll stick with receiving Jesus Body and Blood every day, and in the end we’ll see who was closest to HIM – Thank You, Jesus for Your Greatest Miracle–the Holy Eucharist

      • Julie

        Not in the Lord….you are dealing with something outside of himself.

  • Julie

    All the statues out of the church…sounds like you were in a demolished church, led by rebels.

    Does this church still exist? If so, why not go back and see its renewal.

    • Woody

      Yes, read Walid’s excellent researched report on the Early Christian places where they met–they all had statues, or icons and relics. and looks mostly like the Catholic Churches of today not like Evangelical churches.

      • Julie

        The contradiction…personal interpretation and the disconnect with their own humanity and ours…

  • Julie

    Only a partial glimpse.

    In one context, “Israel” means Those Who seek the truth.

    And at Christ’s presentation, the prophetic words said He would be the rise and fall of many of Israel.

    The fulfilled Jerusalem is waiting….when we will receive a new heaven and new earth.

  • Julie

    You are the one who is radicalized. Sorry to see that.

  • Will-Kayla Maxwell

    We do not have a reasonable hope that all men are saved. For fact we know that the majority of mankind will be damned. No this statement is used to marginalize what Christ did and the necessity of his Church. The statement is a way by which to instill heretical ideas (the idea that all men are saved which is heresy) in the minds of the faithful while at the same time not actually technically teaching heresy.

  • Julie

    You don’t realize that the Church had verified all books of Scripture as truly inspired for public revelation except Hebrews until 200 AD. Likewise, the worship of the liturgy founded by Christ, the episcopal form of governing and administration…found in Acts, and the foundation of the Creed were all established by 100 AD.

    It is also questioned whether or not it was St. James the Lesser or another James.

    There are 5 patriarchs: Jerusalem where the Lord was, Alexandria founded by St. Mark, Antioch by S. Peter, Rome by SS Peter and Paul, and the Patriarch of Constantinople that was assisted by Constantine in helping the Church in Asia Minor be rebuilt after the worst persecution of Christians in 302 AD.

    Protestants out there like easy reading that usually puts Christ’s Church in a false light, but pull away from learning objective Church history, as well as get a Catholic catechism that gives all the references for doctrines, and to visit Sunday Mass.

  • Julie

    Cana, Galilee.

  • Julie

    You should study the nature and mission of the Church as well as early Church history.

    EWTN on tv has many excellent documentaries….start watching it to gain perspective and context.

  • Julie

    What about Bonaventure, Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Avila, Duns Scotus, Therese of Liseux, John of the Cross? S John Climacus….we are members of the Church and live in Christ’s body. We draw on all the lives of the saints.

    You are looking at Church as a singular protestant and not in communion with the Holy Trinity who brings us to communion with each other.

    We never focus on just one man. And if there was the science we have in the time of S. Thomas, he would have affirmed the Immaculate Conception.

  • Julie

    Difference is we are called on this earth, NOW, to enter into the life of the Holy Trinity Who is the source of unity, not opposition and division…which eventually breaks down the faith of society.

    Get yourself a Catholic catechism, start and go through section by section to acquire proper context. Check out the references.

  • Woody

    Yes, we do pray to Mary for her intercession just as she proved her prayers are powerful when she “interceded” for the bride and groom at Cana–causing her Son Jesus to begin his Public Life EARLY to save many souls with just 4 words “They have no wine.” Presto something like 79 jugs of the BEST wine appeared at the wedding “why have you saved the best wine for last?’
    Thank you for your intercession, my Mom, and thank you for the miracle picture you sent me in 2011 at St Patrick Church. I love you; without you we would not have Jesus and our Salvation since Jesus came from your Body and Blood.

  • Julie

    God bless you. In some ways you are following in Shoebat’s path. I experienced the charismata as a young woman before serving in the foreign missions and some of it is still with me and keeps me quite healthy!

    I referred Walid’s to my Southern Baptist son in law who I love very much. But it is alot over his head still.

  • Woody

    Yes, not into grape juice as you use.

  • See what you did Ed, you caused Trevor to dig. And now he is more of a Catholic. I told you to keep your mouth shut lest the whole darn place turns Catholic. The more you open your mouth the more they will turn Catholic.

    You are either apostolic succession or Protestant.

    Which are you Ed? Protestant.

    So knock it off with your silly debates. I am tired of dealing with you.

    • Woody

      Yes, Ed follows Luther not Jesus…his people were not at any of the early Church Councils either. Jerusalem, Nicea, Hippo, yatta yatta

  • I’m sorry, but what article were you reading? He never talked about anything of the sort.

  • Ed,

    None of us had any religious training of any sort when we began to search for God and for our destiny.

    Some of us grew up under a religious conviction that got passed to us. I was brought up Muslim.

    I conquered that. I left it behind.

    I read the Bible and looked for a church. I walked into a classroom where Sunday in and Sunday out they told me that Rome was the harlot.

    It was the same garbage you were taught.

    I researched and conquered that too. I was where you were.

    Knock and the door will be opened to you is not just a one time event. It is a lifetime event.

    You believe Vatican is the harlot? You believe the Bible and trumpet “The Word Of God …”?

    Okay,

    Show me in Scripture where is Vatican “the harlot”?

    And I will walk with you till Kingdom come and examine Scriptures.

    On one condition: do not trumpet your views. Trumpet pure Scripture without any of your interpretations. Share with us the verses. Pure and simple.

    On your mark.

    Ready.

    Set.

    Go.

  • You find no significance in the fact Pope Francis also met with Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kiril, the first such meeting between a the Pope and an Orthodox Patriarch since the great schism in 1054? Why are you not talking about the promise this meeting has for all Christians as we work in unity to save our perishing brothers and sisters?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/02/12/pope-francis-patriarch-kirill-roman-catholic-church-russian-orthodox-church-meet/80278172/

    • racarrera

      Shocking to see such callous disregard for history.

  • So Reg, is all I need are these three verses and I should be up and ready to go? Right?

  • Get in the boat Van Halen and let us go and cast the net. We are going fishing together. We will be fishers of men.

  • About “MYSTERY BABYLON”
    (Sent by a friend)
    There is a theory that the anti-christ will have three centers of operation:
    1. Rome (government),
    2. Babylon (commerce), and
    3. Jerusalem (spiritual).

    God has His own plans.

  • Again,

    You provided references which you do not display the exact text. You expect me to go and look them up and post and debate?

    Revelation 17:18 say: “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”

    I do not see Rome here.

    Yet you are arguing that because the verse is in the presence it is the city at John’s time. Grammar dictates?

    “His judgments are true and just. He has condemned the notorious prostitute. who corrupted the world with her immorality. He has taken revenge on her for the blood of his servants.”

    Then the city was already judged at the time of John and you are out of an argument.

    LAST TIME. PLEASE. STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING. YOU ARE ANNOYING. YOU EITHER SHARE SEVERAL VERSES FROM SCRIPTURE THAT THE HARLOT IS ROME OR I HAVE HAD IT WITH YOU AND I WILL STOP YOUR COMMENTS. YOU ARE ANNOYING.

    • racarrera

      Ed’s a sad sack. He does this on many fora.

  • I think I am loosing my patience with you Ed. You’re really driving me crazy. I asked you for scriptural proof that Rome is the harlot. I tried to give you a chance to express it all and all I got was some nonsense single verse reference which says nothing about Rome, just your argument that if grammar has in in present participle that this is Rome. This was rather annoying to say the lease. I expected a serious answer. It is what annoys me every time I ask a question I get a silly answer, un-hought, un-detailed, just off the tip of a hat type of thing and I am really annoyed at this. It is like sitting with kindergarten.

    “and what a voluminous amount it was,”

    Really? Do you ever seriously research? Or are you always so basic?

  • Dang it works every time. Finally I got you to push the eject button yourself.The whole earth is finally at rest. The entire earth is at rest and peace; its inhabitants break into song. Even the cypresses rejoice over you, as do the cedars of Lebanon, saying, ‘Now that you’ve been laid low, no woodcutter comes up against us

  • True collars finally show Edward Ohara trying to play God from your frustrations and anger. I am not a bit amused at your declarations on who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. You were given ample time to prove your case about the whore and you were found wanting.

  • “It’s what the Bible says that matters to me. ”

    You were given ample time to share the Bible and prove your point. You didn’t . Instead you began to froth and slander. Keep it coming. Don’t stop here. I am more stubborn than you think. I still let you froth and bless me with your slander.

    • Woody

      Adolph Harnack, Protestant Theologian spoke of EdNonwitness many times (of the sickness of prejudice)

  • Woody

    Trevor, unlike you, is a knowledgeable Protestant.

    • edwitness

      Trevor, because of his lack of discernment, is a lukewarm Laodecean who invites Satan into his house.

      • Ed,

        Quit trying to harp on what you lost. Listen, I have been managing my blog for a few years. It is #42 globally in conservative blogs. I monitor it well and usually point out the individuals with the least amount of substance and so far you are it. Quit trying to hone in other Protestants who do not have a pepper you know where. Go read Haddon Spurgeon and when your done, read how Sir Robert Anderson creamed him. Both are righteous Protestants. You have a feeling that we hate Protestants. For your information Sir Allenby is one of my favorites. Too bad you’re not. The crazy thing about all this is that you claim to be teaching Bible study. What grade? Kindergarten?

        • racarrera

          Before my brother became an Orthodox catechumen, he had told me about his experiences in the Evangelical world (which is how I ended up here many years ago, as I think I related the story to you and Ted some time ago). What finally turned him off of Evangelicalism (though he still has some rust to shake off of himself) is how feeble the Bible studies were. Most of it was spent on a horribly long prayer, singing corny hymns, reading a few lines in the Bible, singing a few more hymns, praying and going home. No meat, no substance, just tofurkey. They teach, at best, regurgitation from errant pastors with no background in history, linguistics, theology or much of anything else outside of their own opinion.

          Go to an EO or RCC Bible study, for the most part, and you’re in a university session with people qualified to actually teach (and in the case of my priest, he teaches Protestants Koine Greek as well as critical analysis of the Bible). It’s as if there are two religions claiming Christianity, and one is masquerading.

          • “He teaches Protestants Koine Greek as well as critical analysis of the Bible)” Amen!

            The other new trick in evangelical bible studies are people with their smart phone/tablet apps that provide the Greek upon clicking on a word. It is the in vogue thing in evangelicalism to say, “in the Greek it says.” As if parsing out one Greek word makes their entire argument. This also is exactly what evangelical bible studies are, parsing out a word here or there to make a point. As if the Apostles and bible writers were writing the bible to build one point off of one word. The new “Greek” scholars are maddening. There are some Evangelical pastors who studied Greek, who know better. I had a retired pastor years ago who I thought was very responsible with the Greek. But even in their cases, unfortunately, they while knowing the Greek, understand it inside of Reformation History.

            When I met and got to know a Greek Eastern Orthodox Priest who is now a very good friend of mine who was actually born in Greece and actually speaks the Greek language, I learned I should shut my mouth about anything Greek.

            I would love to meet and speak with your brother one day!

          • racarrera

            Yes! They’ve been trying that nonsense for a while here locally, and it’s par for the course with Jehova’s Witnesses. In fact, there are some Greek JWs who have coffee with my priest, and they are continually frustrated by his explaining to them what the words actually mean. These people know dimotiki, or modern Greek. My priest has been trained in every type of greek since Homeric, and specializes in Koine and Byzantine, so evangelical nonsense goes out the window once things are explained in context. A lot of why I have this annoyance with these people is that they think that they hold on to some secret truth that Orthodox or Catholics or Copts magically missed out on.

            My brother is a good guy. Two years younger, with two brilliant kids, and he reads the Bible deeply and intensely. My priest likes him a lot as he brought a lot from the Evangelical world into the Bible study, which broadens our perspective overall.

          • Woody

            wHICH IS WHY I REFERRED OUR OLD NEMESIS TO YOU ABOUT A MONTH AGO (SEE KOINE)
            This is what happens when an uneducated man–SUMSRANT does not know Greek or Aramaic. See RUDY for a Greek Lesson, and you are why heretics will always be heretics since the first heretic–Simon Magus whom Peter put “the boots” to in Rome.

            In reality, what the missionary was telling me at this point was “false”, like SumsRant lies

            As Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant “small stone” and “large rock” in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries before the time of Christ,but that distinction had disappeared from the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in KOINE Greek—an entirely different dialect. In KOINE Greek, both petros and petra simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek LITHOS would have been used. The missionary’s argument didn’t work and showed a faulty knowledge of Greek. (For an Evangelical Protestant Greek scholar’s admission of this, see D. A. Carson, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984], Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., 8:368).

          • racarrera

            Woody, as always, you nailed it. I am of the opinion that, while the Bible should be translated (CORRECTLY) into every language on the face of the Earth, theology MUST be discussed in Koine Greek, and then carefully related to each language. What you have is the difference between deep scholars in the Apostolic Church (and, I certainly admit that there are quite a few in the Protestant and Evangelical worlds who ‘get it’), and the amateur anti-intellectuals who spout off nonsense because they’re simply not intellectually equipped to discuss these matters. If that sounds like snobbery, I don’t care. Jesus wanted us to study, learn and understand our faith, not live in ignorance.

          • Woody

            Yes, and only the first translation is guaranteed “inerrant” and actually Luther himself showed this when he said “Look this bible is inerrant.” And then he tore out the 7 books and threw them away.
            As bibles are copied over the centuries, mistakes are made, in dialect, in meaning (one switch to another language), punctuation, deliberate changes to fit ones “errors” etc. These people look upon Christ’s and the Roman times with 20th century eyeglasses even thinking the Church was hiding bibles from the public:
            1. Most of the people were unread – illiterate
            2. There was no bible until the early Church Councils
            3. It took many years using the techniques available – handwriting to make a few texts
            4. Not until the 1600s or thereabouts when the printing press was available were copies readily availble
            5. And it doesn’t matter any way and why St Paul said to keep any “traditions” we give you too.

      • Trevor

        I am quite capable of thinking and researching for myself.

      • Woody

        Speak for yourself; Trevor keeps an open mind is is always aware of Satan who gets a quick kick in the butt from Trevor; you have been found boring on the other sites, and when the only person who agrees with you is SUMSRANT you are in trouble since he readily admits he has been thrown off 14 sites included is Walid’s fine site.

        • edwitness

          Is it getting dusty there yet?

    • Trevor

      Thanks, my friend. It is really amusing to see him attacking my character and casting judgement as if he was God. More the pity.

  • Ehem, sure you did. Please, follow the exist sign.

  • Trevor

    I have to laugh. In one comment, you said I have invited Satan into my home.

    Since the Bible describes Satan as the accuser of the brethren, doesn’t it sound like that is what you are doing? Accusing. Then calling me a Laodicean as if you are God Himself able to search and know the thoughts and intent of my heart.

  • Ya sure, and you are filled with the fruits of the spirit. Now you are spamming. For the last time, leave. You overstayed your welcome.

  • The really slim shady

    Thank you for backing me up, and thank you for furthering the insight.
    You are right – If the Son has set you free, you are free indeed. His grace is sufficient!

    And you’re right about the Church – the Church is you, me, people like us, and Christ.
    And by people like us I mean people who believe in Jesus Christ and take Him at His Word.

    “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
    one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us
    from all sin.” 1 John 1:7

  • But l really do not see Catholics preaching what Jesus say.. And Jesus never did the things Catholics do today.. Not saying all Catholic are doing what l see the Pope doing but if they listen to the Pope now. this is no way what Jesus taught . There is only but one Sabbath and it is not on a Sunday . There is Only one who can forgive sins , it is no man on earth.

    • But l really do not see what Luther preached what Jesus say.. And Jesus never did the things Luther taught .. Not saying all Protestants are doing what l see the Luther did but if they listen to Luther …. this is no way what Jesus taught . There is only but one Eucharist and it is not on a crackers and grape juice . Jesus told the disciples that they can forgive sins:

      http://shoebat.com/2016/01/25/91567/

      • I was to believe forgiven sin by what that one man done to you, but it is for us to forgive that person and God will forgive us.. but not for man to forgive another in the ways only God can forgive.. I can go to God myself to pray from myself to help me forgive that person who done me harm and not to go to a Pope to do that for me.. And the Catholics celebrate Christmas and Easter… l was not taught that because Jesus did not these things.

      • This is a long read and l need time to study on this… l save the link and wish to continue and search harder into this..

  • Julie

    We have to keep recalling that there would be Jews who would accept Him and others who would not.

    • Woody

      Yes, I think a man named err, ahhh, Peter accepted him and than 1.2 billion followed.

      • Julie

        First church was Jewish, the Church of Jerusalem and those who comprised the Roman home gatherings for Mass led by presbyters were Jewish Christian who came there during the Diaspora and witnessed Peter and Paul come to establish the Church of Rome. Even though they met in separate homes, they all considered themselves member of one church.

        • Woody

          Yes, and the Clergy of the Church Jesus founded has already evolved, James as the First Bishop of Jerusalem who presided over the first Council of the Church at Jerusalem. Peter’s First SEE was as first Bishop of Antioch and from there he took the SEE to Rome as the first Bishop of Rome (later known as the Papacy); Ignatius ordained by St John was 3rd Bishop of Antioch; Timothy ordained by St Paul was a Bishop.

          • Julie

            I read a recent comment that they are not sure if it is St. James the Lesser of Jerusalem or another James….

  • I’ve always been radical. I was radical slim, then radical Evangelical and now radical Catholic. I am not against all the radical Evangelical teaching. I just believe they have half the truth. They harp is salvation by faith alone or by works. I say its by Faith and by God’s works in us. Any objection to that?

  • Have you finished reading the article yet?

  • Please explain how we are lumping anyone?

  • Woody

    Yes, see the excellent researched study by Shoebat on “what the First Christian Churches looked like; they all had icons, or statues, incense, etc. shoebat.com

    • Marsha and other evangelicals do not seem to understand that if the saints and early church fathers were to come back today, they would walk into a Catholic Church or an Orthodox Church and recognize the church from which they came. I wonder what they would think of the “church” inside of the middle school or the converted store front. I have found a church near by that celebrates the Latin Liturgy. I’ve never seen it before. I am looking forward to it. My dad remembers the church that was prior to Vatican II, I remember him telling me about it. Have you ever been to the Latin Liturgy (Tridentine Mass?)

      • Woody

        Love it; I served as an altar boy for years the Tridentine Mass; my church today is almost Tridentine. Dominican, still has Jesus Tabernacle in the center; still has the Communion rail for receiving Jesus Body Blood Soul and Divinity kneeling like we are supposed to; confessions before every Mass, Our Lady, my Ma on the left, St Joseph on the right whom I thanked him last night for saving her life in the Flight into Egypt, we have several Masses throughout the year in Latin and Greek, with incense smelling all over called “the smells and bells: of the Latin Mass; the early Christians as we do today collected all the relics they could get of the Martyrs, the True Cross which Constantine’s Ma St Helena found. Not until the 5th century was Jesus Cross shown as the “cross bar” type–until then it was always pictured as the Greek Letter TAO the letter T. It is probably that Jesus only carried the cross bar which was the custom.

        • Interestingly I talked to my mother on Sunday and was telling her I was able to observe a church that had the Latin Mass. I asked her if she remembered the old Latin Mass (my mother is almost 80.) She said, “Oh yes, they should have never changed it.” I asked her to expand upon that a little, but she just stated she remembered the priest facing the alter and that the way it was is the way it should be. I can imagine what it must have been like for those Catholics who showed up to churches in the years after Vatican II that had to endure the change in the rubrics of the mass. Once things got going, I found it very easy to follow along with the entire liturgy. They did not use incense at the Tridentine Mass I went to, I wished they would have had that. But to see it in the Latin was really nice.

          • racarrera

            This was one of the motivating factors for me becoming Orthodox. The Liturgy of John Chrysostom has remained pretty much as is since 381. Rome could use it and do the whole thing in Latin (a copy exists).

          • I was born after Vatican II, so I knew no difference of the church being any different than it is today. I wonder how life would have been if Vatican II never happened and the liturgy would have just remained in the Latin as my parents always knew it? I think it is the reason I was so drawn to Orthodoxy. The relatively unchanged historical liturgy alone is enough for me. This is not to mention the witness of the church. I am working through Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History currently. I had always come across it in bits and pieces, but didn’t have my own copy. We are truly blessed to have had a man such as Eusebius. It is amazing the history Evangelicals ignore, dismiss or distort. His work alone leaves no place for a “reformation.”

          • racarrera

            Both Eusebius and Origen (before he went off the deep end into Arianism) are priceless artifacts for the Church!

          • Woody

            Yes, Eusebius, I still re-read, so much about the early Church, and I did not realize Constantine had him at his secretary at Nicea. Origen has written hundreds of tomes I guess; how he could write so much in those days is beyond me.

          • racarrera

            Look at John Chrysostom. Thousands of works, and yet the odd Evangelicals have never heard of him. They’d rather read rubbish like Jonathan Edwards.

          • Woody

            Yes, I served Mass in Latin for years; the beauty of the Latin Mass it was universal and we used to say–we could attend any Mass in any city or country in the world and you would “feel at Home;”
            Vatican II I believe was not the real problem but a “misinterpretation” of what it said. They rushed to implement things which I dislike, but it is still the Mass:
            (NOW — NOT ALL CHURCHES “MISINTERPRETED” — MY CHURCH TODAY HAS MARY, JESUS, COMMUNION RAIL, AND LATIN MASSES AND GREEK, AND INCENSE (COUGH!)
            — Jesus is the center of the Service and now He (the Tabernacle) is to the side? Never could figure this out?
            — In so many churches the “Communion Rail” was taken out and I always believe Our Lord’s Body and Blood should be received on one’s knees
            — There were only altar boys which the purpose was to “attract” them to the priesthood. don’t know if there was a relation but vocations especially nuns were dropping; but looks like vocations are climbing again–over 600 in formation for the priesthood this year and 595 nuns (I love the nuns and would be in jail today if it were not for them)
            [rough neighborhood] The Church today is growing mostly in Africa by the Millions. I met a Missionary at a Funeral about a year ago and he told me he and his people handed out 18,000,000 Rosaries just in 2012/13. And we all know the Rosary is the Gospel in Prayer (the Bible–NT)
            — Our Lady was always on the Left and St Joseph on the Right The day she adopted me she was on the left
            — We all spoke only Latin and one could not be an altar boy unless he learned his Latin (love it to this day)
            — the Red Lamp lit always indicated Jesus was is at Home in His Tabernacle
            — And always above the Tabernacle was Jesus on the Cross
            [I do see it gradually moving back, but very slow for me]

            Incidentally, I was a “klutsy” altar boy…I don’t think I ever moved the BOOK from the right to the left side of the altar without tripping on my cassock.
            God Bless (Your mom is right)

          • The church I grew up in still had the communion rails. I honestly at the time had no idea what they were for. I remember for certain ceremonies, it would be where you would kneel to receive a blessing. However, I had no idea back then they were there because they were communion rails. I too was an alter boy. I taught myself essentially. In the summertime, when 12 o’clock mass only would have a few attendees, I started going when I was 8 years old and serving at the alter. In the summer, the mass would be short because of the few attendees and the priest was okay to let me learn how to serve. I actually used to play mass in my basement. My mother was a dress maker, so I used to take the left over material from the bride’s maid’s dresses and make vestments out of them. I had a chalice, an alter and I would lift old missilettes from the church to say mass. I think back now, particularly because I allowed the influence of evangelicals and protestants into my life, I wish my church had been more overt about really teaching us the faith and why we believed what we believe. Who knows, maybe they did, but it did not catch on I guess. I can say, in every place I’ve lived, the Catholic Church was more evangelistic than what I grew up with. But looking back, I think of Monsignor who is now deceased and I’m thankful for him. Amazingly I read an article not recently and it mentioned a priest who I thought was really young when I was just a kid and it mentioned a church he was now pastoring. He heard my first confession and so I looked up the church and called him about a few months ago. He is in his mid 70’s now. It was great to reconnect with him. He still has the same spunk. He was our basketball coach and he used to play floor hockey with us. He would check anyone and clean out anyone in his way. Those were the good ole’ days I guess.

      • michelletherese

        We as a family just returned from the Scottish island of “Stronsay” ~ look up “Papa Stronsay at Home”, these monks do the Latin Mass so beautifully.

    • Tom_mcewen

      Do these people know that we have the walls of the 1st century synagogues with paintings of people on it.

      • michelletherese

        Dura Europa… pardon my bad spelling.

        I have to quit commenting, I look like a stalker today… this is what happens when I’m stuck with a lot of pain, I read every article on Shoebat to pass the time lol

        • Tom_mcewen

          No worries, I have no problem reading your comments, nor does anyone else. Keep posting.

        • And now I know who drew these paintings at Dura Europa. A kid with crayon in his hand. Is that what the photo you have shows here? Are you the angel sent from heaven who drew Dura Europa. Are we entertaining angels here? Are you an angel? Now I know angels can’t lie. So tell us. Are you that angel?

          While you read our articles, we snoop in your comments too 🙂

          • michelletherese

            I looked in the mirror this morning before I had my coffee and what I saw was anything but angelic… perhaps after a gallon of coffee? But even then, I am not so sure! 😉

            If I drew holy Icons you would say, “The person that made these, they draw worse then a child with a crayon!” My cooking is only one step better. Thankfully I am married to a very hungry farmer.

            Thank you for the great pain-management of your articles! They make me think so hard that I soon forget the orchestra of pain raging in the background!

    • michelletherese

      One of my FAVE articles! Love the one all about Constantine too.

  • We just did two articles and critiqued the Pope. We do not compliment or critique the Pope when you land us carrots. Lastly, knowing how you are, if you were with David and Solomon you would have denounced the King including Yahweh, no doubt. Your arguments are hardly convincing.

    • michelletherese

      HAW HAW HAW stopppp you’re killing me lol

      • And here you come again and save me from attempting another suicide. Now I know you are my guardian angel with the hand reaching chalk telling me to draw icons instead of taking my own life.

  • Can you make me some tea and add antifreeze to it?

    • michelletherese

      Sorry, Uncle ~ you must be forced to STICK AROUND for a while yet because we kinda need your articles and videos still haha! So sorry! You must continue to endure the fingernails on chalk boards but you have our sympathy!

      • I was just about to drink the tea with the antifreeze. And now God send His angel with Chalks in hand instead of the fingernails on the chalkboard. THANK YOU LORD. THANK YOU.

        • michelletherese

          I will make you SWEET tea with honey and cream in order to entice you to stay a while yet!

  • Woody

    The Pope doesn’t see them as illegals as we do–he sees them as “the poor” just as Jesus did; his job is watch over the poor and let authorities whose job it is to obey the laws of our land. Let us not forget Jesus also said, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesars…the wall is Caesar’s province not religious figures again who see the poor among them

  • Julie

    The term, Trinity….is simply an abbreviation in daily speech to mean the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…may be like a holy nickname.

  • Julie

    It is in the Church…nickname and easy way of saying the Our Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…nothing less or more. People get scruples about what is in the Bible…but they completely disconnect from the other necessary dimension of faith — the traditions given us by the apostles in how our faith is understood and lived out. How do we do this? We come to understand our traditions by going to Mass on Sunday, studying our faith, and I recommend everyone have a catechism next to the Bible because the vast majority of Catholic doctrines come from Sacred Scripture.

  • Julie

    That is denying Peter and Paul who said we are to follow their teachings and the traditions…meaning how we understand the faith and how we are to live it out…in the Church.

  • Julie

    We have about 44,000 in this country…how many churches in your town?

    People can earn a living by getting a ‘degree’ on line. Then the usual to keep the coffers full is to start attacking Christ’s Church which is 2000 years old …the chaff will always be with the wheat…as Christ Himself said.

  • Julie

    The Church has never stopped indulgences. The problem was the image of Dominican Fr Tetzel going about as if he was selling indulgences during the time of Luther.

    And….Luther venerated the Blessed Virgin and prayed the rosary up to his death.

  • Woody

    Yes, Trinity (not found in the bible as the term bible is not found in the bible–which exposes the heresy of “Sola Scriptura”) is a Theological term meaning there are three persons in the One God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit is the LOVE that exists between the Father and the Son. In the early Church there was much controversy over defining the Trinity.

  • Do you have a name of that Antichrist Rose? That is question #1. Question #2, can you tell me if anyone in history has ever named the Antichrist and was right?

  • Never invited you here to say “goodbye” and your conspiracy theories makes you sound like the very thing you accuse us of.

  • I’d rather talk to the priest that ride a Cyprus donkey.

  • Even King Henry VIII in 1531 condemned the Tyndale Bible as a corruption of Scripture. In the words of King Henry’s advisors: “the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people, and not be suffered to go abroad among his subjects.” (2) Protestant Bishop Tunstall of London declared that there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale’s Bible.

  • Woody

    Much like that Minister a few years back who would predict the End Times about every three years (about 4 times) and now he is dead. I guess he missed it.

    • Tom_mcewen

      Woody are we to kill those whose prophecies don’t come true. If so there is a lot of people on YouTube in trouble.

  • Woody

    Everyone is not English; especially back then; the Septuagint – the Greek version of the Bible was quoted from many times by Jesus who spoke both Greek and Aramaic’ and Jerome did the Latin version – the Vulgate a long time ago. 1582 and 1612 English Translations of the Douay Rheims English translations of NT and OT were available.

  • Woody

    Yes what good are defective bibles; I don’t blame Henry VIII I am, I am, and even Luther who held his bible up and said, “Why my bible is “inerrant” and then he proceeded to tear 7 whole books out and throw them away. Are you kidding me? What happened to “inerrant?”

  • racarrera

    This place is a wonderful resource for learning, but nothing beats having family to help out, and going to a local church or monastery. Much can be gained from that.

    • Woody

      Yes, Perpetual Adoration with family is super.

      • racarrera

        Amen.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Thank you.

  • Rev. Fr. Higgins

    The Catholic Church has never declared any non-Catholics to be in heaven, on the subject of the salvation of non-Catholics there is a deafening silence.

    It is hypothetically possible for a misguided protestant to make a perfect act of contrition before his death, this would be an extraordinary grace for him.

    There are no protestants in heaven though, if they make it, they have been purified of their heresy in purgatory and are now faithful catholics.

  • Tom_mcewen

    God is the creator of space and time,death is attribute of a material universe. God is not a prisoner of time or space. There are No dead. God is the God of the living. When was the lamb sacrificed, when was Mary completed in grace,? Try the greek.

  • michelletherese

    “Anyone dare deny what I said so far, step forward, and I will make minced meat out of your arguments.”

    And. He. Will.

  • michelletherese

    Pass the pop corn! I love reading these fantasy stories lol

  • michelletherese

    When you make a mountain out of an ant hill, you end up with a heretical new religion. Just saying…

  • michelletherese

    There’s 14 videos?!?! I only saw about 8. Do you have the link to the whole batch by any chance??

  • michelletherese

    Sheesh where is your sense of humor??

  • michelletherese

    EXACTLY! The Protestants lament the very demons they conjured through the veil and then loosed on our poor world. Hello… the so-called “Reformation” is what is Devilish, not the Catechism of the Catholic Church or the writings and Catechisms of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Not even close!

  • “Time for some Checkmate Jesus style :)”

    I said fishing Van Halen not chess.

  • “So THERE CAN BE NO VICAR OF CHRIST which the Pope styles himself. We who follow Christ have people who lead, as in any group a leader emerges so there is order. They may call themselves bishops or pastors or reverends or shepherds but WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME LEVEL IN THE SPIRIT.”

    So there cannot be one Pope who leads all of the Western church, but there can be “people who lead” and “a leader emerges and there is order?” I have never seen a more archaic grouping of thought in one sentence as that one Marsha. First off, if you noticed, there is order among those led by the one pope. They follow one liturgy, one catechism, one rule of faith, one rule of law. However, where you say, “a leader emerges and there is order;” how is it that you have nearly 40,000+ denominations, who cannot even agree on one canon, one confession of faith, one form of worship? Where I live, there are approximately 4 different churches meeting at the various middle schools in the area in addition to the numerous other denominational churches on the various street corners. This is unity? This is leadership? This is a united body of Christ?

    Post-modernism is crushing the reformation churches at an accelerated rate. Liberalism is destroying any vestige of history protestants once had. You have no direction, you have no unity, you have no leadership that can unite all of evangelicalism. But Marsha my sister, as we wind down this never ending road you continue to advance on, you are my sister in Christ, though we are separated you are always welcome home. May God richly bless you and keep you.

    • I don’t know whats all the fuss about having a Pope. Imagine if the United States did not have a President and instead we had 100,000 Presidents who all have equal authority, what will the state of the union be? What will the state of the Union speech be like? Mind you, we might have bad president and good presidents, but image if we always had 100,000 bad and good presidents the whole time. Same goes with all these arguments about Receiving the Holy Spirit and Baptism. Salvation is a deal, accept and sign on the dotted line. The signature is Baptism. If one cannot sign then a thumb print, if that thumb is hanging on a cross, like the thief, then nod your head to Jesus and the deal is set. People LOVE to complicate Vinny and is why we are in such a mess.

      • Woody

        Good point; what company can be run without a CEO? Throw another in and it is a disaster. Pope, from Latin, Papa (head) leader and term was not used until the ninth century Bishop of Rome before then.
        First 20+ died Martyrs under Romans and yes you would think by some of the stuff on here each had his own private pocket Holy Spirit
        maybe they will even get a license for their own

      • I truly believe it is a simply issue of rebellion. “I don’t want the pope, I want to be my own pope.” “I don’t want the bishop, I want to be the bishop.” I watched about 3 seconds of a video when I saw the person’s title was “apostle.” How did this guy become one of the apostles? It is amazingly absurd to me that they will reject the very church from whence the apostles came, yet claim the title of those whom they reject.

        I wrote down a quote from St Seraphim of Sarov sometime ago and was reading it today. I think it so perfectly encapsulates what we’re talking about:

        “Even a pious person is not immune to spiritual sickness if he does not have a wise guide — either a living person or a spiritual writer. This sickness is called “prelest”, or spiritual delusion, imagining oneself to be near to God and to the realm of the divine and supernatural. Even zealous ascetics in monasteries are sometimes subject to this delusion, but of course, laymen who are zealous in external struggles (podvigi) undergo it much more frequently. Surpassing their acquaintances in struggles of prayer and fasting, they imagine that they are seers of divine visions, or at least of dreams inspired by grace. In every event of their lives, they see special intentional directions from God or their guardian angel. And then they start imagining that they are God’s elect, and often try to foretell the future. The Holy Fathers armed themselves against nothing so fiercely as against this sickness — prelest.”

        Amazingly, those sick with this very disease today, attack those who humbly tried to avoid the very disease they have. They accuse the fathers of delusion, while claiming they are the keepers of the faith. So once again, Marsha has reminded me of these very wise words of Abba Anthony said, “A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, “You are mad, you are not like us.” Blessings to you my friend.

        • Woody

          Yes, so true and I see this all the time with all these people interpreting Holy Scripture, plucking a verse here in there while rejecting the obvious meaning that the Church gives. How the meaning of this verse can be misunderstood is beyond me:

          “Unless you Eat of My Flesh and Drink of My Blood you shall have NO LIFE within you.”

          The Bible is fine reading, but St Paul warned in Timothy to “listen to the Church.”

          Each thinks he has his own private little Holy Spirit (HS) in his pocket, and can’t explain why they guy next to him–his HS says the opposite “verse interpretation” and soon we end up with 40,000 denominations all preaching different things and attributing them to Jesus, “gay marriage we’ll do; vs gay marriage we won’t do.” Yet, Aristotle the father of Logic taught us centuries ago “opposite posits cannot be true at the same time. “

  • Woody

    POSIT (MARSHA) “Oh i get what you are asking now. I am not trying to sidestep. I had answered something similar to Walid. Catholicism whether orthodox or western is based on a SYSTEM which Jesus came an did away with when that heavy tall veil was torn away from top to bottom in the temple. Right then and there, Oh, so now Jesus Who is GOD is now a “liar” according to Marsha who has NO authority. Like a good protestant she “verse picks” which commands what Commands she likes that Jesus Who is GOD and rejects His other Commands…a human censoring God—how naïve!

    She rejects these remarks of Jesus:

    ANSWER: “Blessed , are you Simon Bar Jona! For Flesh alone has not revealed this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven. And I tell you, You are PETER (CEPHAS [“ROCK” ONLY] ARAMAIC), KEPHAS (GREEK [ROCK, STONE), AND UPON this “ROCK” I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH. AND THE POWERS OF DEATH SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT. I WILL GIVE YOU THE “KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN” (NO GREATER AUTHORITY CAN BE GIVEN THAN THIS) AND “WHATEVER YOU BIND ON EARTH I SHALL BIND IN HEAVEN, AND WHATEVER YOU LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN (AGAIN—FULL AUTHORITY). [TO RUN HIS CHURCH] AND “I will be with you to the End of Days.”

    Hmmm, so since the “End of Days” is not here yet, she has Jesus telling another lie.

    POSIT (MARSHA) Jesus showed the SYSTEM OF PRIESTHOOD OR ANY TYPE OF HIERARCHY WAS DONE AWAY WITH,

    ANSWER: So I guess the Apostle James, the Bishop of Jerusalem (His SEE was the site of the First Counsel of the Church where re: “circumcision” it was decided it shall no longer be required for Christians [Bishop Paul (who ordained Timothy a Bishop) and Peter in the lead] (Marsha owes the Church she no longer needs to be circumcised) , was DEMOTED by Marsha who has NO authority; that the TEN years Peter spent after Jesus’ death as First Bishop of Antioch and, when He moved to Rome as Bishop of Rome did not happen either where he spent 25 Years as “Bishop of Rome.” (See the renowned Protestant Theologian, Adolph Harnack remarks whose “Specialty” was Peter in Rome) No wonder he said “Do not believe Protestants for they are “Prejudiced” and “I’ll go further they are Blind.”)

    That Peter was made the Head of Jesus’ One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church [name “The Way” until 107 AD by the 3rd Bishop of Antioch when he had its name changed to “Catholic” [Greek – for Universal—“found everywhere” – Peter is always mentioned FIRST when the Apostles are spoken of in the New Testament just as Judas is mentioned LAST. Peter is mentioned 195 times in the NT with the next most mentioned Apostle is John – 29 times.

    THE GOSPEL OF MARSHA WHO HAS “NO” AUTHORITY AND WHY PETER SAID SOON THE HERETICS WILL FOLLOW:

    POSIT (MARSHA) Christians who deny all and follow Christ are all brethren with ONE MASTER, JESUS, who is THE ONLY MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN. No longer do we need to take sacrifices to a priest or confess to a priest but we go directly to God THROUGH Jesus, the ONLY MEDIATOR. So THERE CAN BE NO VICAR OF CHRIST which the Pope styles himself.

    ANSWER: Marsha has missed the direct line from Peter to the Bishop of Rome today–FRANCIS and he is the 266th since Peter; See also the first History of the Church written in the 300s by Eusebius “The History of the Church.” And in the Index she will find the first 20+ Bishops of Rome who all died for Christ in Martyrdom being killed by the Romans, and they all have a history and many of their letters survive aw they handle the many problems which came up in the early Church along with many Heresies which go on to today. (like this one)

    POSIT: We who follow Christ have people who lead, as in any group a leader emerges so there is order. They may call themselves bishops or pastors or reverends or shepherds but WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME LEVEL IN THE SPIRIT.

    ANSWER: Pure poppycock. They now have over 40,000+ churches (SOME LEADERSHIP) all founded 1517 years too late to have anything to do with Christ Who died in 28AD, after founding His ONE Church about which He said “That all may be ONE.” Not 40,000 + (not even two) all preaching different gospels, Presbyterians and Episcopalians “Gay Marriage is fine” (not taught by Jesus); versus Anglican :Gay Marriage is not okay,” and the same with other things not taught by Christ. They violate the rules of logic consistently as founded by the father of all logic Aristotle, e.g., “contradictions (as above) cannot be true AT THE SAME TIME.” In reality they do not follow Christ they follow Luther e.g. “Sola Scirptura” (it has to be in scripture to be true) Nonsense. There was NO NT until the Catholic Church Counsels of Hippo and Carthage (following discussion at Nicea) and the NT was not finally completed until April 8th 1592. Many things are true and not in Scripture, the Didache the first bible’ – term Trinity not in bible, Joseph’s death not in bible so by this nonsense-Joseph is still alive today.

    POSIT (MARSHA) IN FACT JESUS PLACED A CHILD ON HIS LAP AND SAID THE LEAST IS THE GREATEST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. So this is the point : you are in SYSTEM that has been destroyed by the death and resurrection of Jesus and so if you are not for Christ then you are against him..a system under which you will be lumped in the plagues on the Vatican. A Protestant is not under that system and so they will answer individually to not following holy living without which they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

    POSIT: You are in an earthly kingdom set up by the Popish hierarchy which is Satanic. Open your eyes and watch how your leader is gobbling up all the kings of the earth for total domination without sovereign borders.

    ANSWER: Satanic? See Tertullian (2nd century) who praised Jesus’ Church after seeing the deaths of all the Martyrs, Agnes. (Polycarp, another Bishop); including the Popes up to the 4th century as he said. The seed of the Church are its martyrs (fastest growth of Jesus’ church – 40% a year during the first 4 centuries with not protestants to be found other than in John VI –Verse 666 wow

    ANSWER: 40,000 man-made churches all preaching opposites are against Him, following men, Luther, Zwingli, Wesley, Calvin, etc and even this is not true today since these four all believe Mary was always sinless.

    Bottom line: You have no education. Return to school. That is why you verse pick and have no “sources” See an educated Protestant above: Harnack, Phd

    I’ll stick with Francis who had 6,000,000 at his Sunday Mass Church Service in the Philippines – what did you have 43?

    • “You have said a whole bag of dung, that all the Holy Spirit leads me to reply is…”

      Woody. How many times I told you to stay away from these who say “the Holy Spirit leads me to say …”

      How many times I come in here to find you still fiddling with these little gods. Just let them be. They froth here and they froth there. They bark in the spirit here and they roll in the spirit there. There is no way to redeem them unless you cast the demon out and that only comes through prayer and much fasting.

      • Woody

        Oh, you know I agree with you; I reply only so OTHERS on the site be not taken in with uneducated people; sometimes the audience needs to see the folly of their ill Logic and I always show them your principle of “let’s see you sources.” There are others who wonder sometimes because of who taught them at a very young age and are told “Whatever you do–do not read the early Church Fathers–just ask me?” Right. And I know one of the most educated on here is Rudy and he has little patience for them. And sometimes my research helps me when I pick up something I hadn’t thought of. I was briefing The History of the Church last night by Eusebius and did not know he was so detailed naming the First Bishops and others for centuries.
        God Bless – agree with prayer all day and all night, but fasting my wife does not want me to do because of age. I do the Perpetual Adoration which is soooo peaceful sitting with Jesus and receiving Him as often as I can.

  • michelletherese

    Of course! You are so superior, I look up at you high on your tall horse.

  • Will Maxwell

    The Protestant scholar Mr. Karl Pearson, says: “The Catholic Church has quite enough to answer for, but in the 15th century it certainly did not hold back the Bible from the folk: and it gave them in the vernacular (i.e. their own tongue) a long series of devotional works which for language and religious sentiment have never been surpassed. Indeed, we are inclined to think it made a mistake in allowing the masses such ready access to the Bible. It ought to have recognized the Bible once for all as a work absolutely unintelligible without a long course of historical study, and, so far as it was supposed to be inspired, very dangerous in the hands of the ignorant.” (Academy, August, 1885)

    “In England there were current from early times(A.D. 800) vernacular versions of the Bible, especially of the Gospels, since the Gospel was often read at Mass in the vernacular after its recitation in Latin” (The Columbia Encyclopedia, copyright 1958, p. 197)

    “The Latin Vulgate (q.v.), from which a considerable number of versions were made into that form of English commonly called Anglo-Saxon, the most noted translators being Aldhelm, Bishop of Sherborn, Bede (8th c.); Alfred (6th c.); and Aelfric (10th c.).” (The Imperial Encyclopedia and Dictionary, volume 4, copyright 1902)

    Even Foxe, the martyologist, makes the same acknowledgment: “If history be well examined we shall find both before the conquest and after, as well before John Wickliffe was born as since, the whole body of the scriptures was by Sundry men translated into our country tongue.” (This was in 1571, in the declaration to Queen Elizabeth, written by Foxe).

    “To refute once more the common fallacy that John Wycliff was the first to place an English translation of the Scriptures in the hands of the English people in 1382. To anyone that has investigated the real facts of the case, this fondly-cherished notion must seem truly ridiculous…To begin far back, we have a copy of the work of Caedmon, a monk of Whitby, in the end of the seventh century, consisting of great portions of the Bible in the common tongue. In the next century we have the well-known translations of Venerable Bede, a monk of Jarrow, who died whilst busy with the Gospel of St. John. In the same (eighth) century we have the copies of Eadhelm, Bishop of Sherborne; of Guthlac, a hermit near Peterborough; and of Egbert, Bishop of Holy Island; these were all in Saxon, the language understood and spoken by the Christians of that time. Coming down a little later, we have the free translations of King Alfred the Great who was working at the Psalms when he died, and of Aelfric, Archbishop of Canterbury; as well as popular renderings of Holy Scripture like the Book of Durham, and the Rushworth Gloss and others that have survived the wreck of ages. After the Norman conquest in 1066, Anglo-Norman or Middle-English became the language of England, and consequently the next translations of the Bible we meet with are in that tongue. There are several specimens still known, such as the paraphrase of Orm (About 1150) and the Salus Animae (1250), the translations of William Shoreham and Richard Rolle, hermit of Hampole (died 1349). I say advisedly ‘specimens’ for those that have come down to us are merely indications of a much greater number that once existed, but afterwards perished.”(Where we got the Bible 1911, )

    St. Thomas More, Lord Chancellor of England, said in his “Dialogue” (p.138), that:”the whole Bible was long before Wycliff’s day (who lived during the century before Tyndale) by virtuous and well learned men translated into the English tongue and by good and godly people with devotion and soberness, well and reverendly read . . .”

    Saint Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea, and charged Tyndale’s translation of The Obedience of a Christian Man with having about a thousand falsely translated errors.
    It seems you have no idea what you are talking about. Tyndale was a heretic who was executed for the worst of crimes spreading heretical ideas not because he wanted the common man to be able to read the Bible but because he wanted the common man to follow him in his false belief. Someone who causes the souls of others to perish is the worst kind of criminal.

  • Will Maxwell

    This Eucharist that you hate so much (along with the Satanist) is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. You can not be more brought to Jesus than by becoming one with Christ in the Blessed Eucharist. Also, anyone who claims they love Christ but hates the Eucharist is deceived or a liar. It is the Eucharist that gives us life.

    I perceive that your Bibles do not contain the following.

    Gospel of St. John 6:54-58 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.

    I am Catholic I do not worship Mary. However, I do ask for her intercession every day. I don’t understand how anyone, confessing they believe in Jesus Christ, would not want the intercession of the Mother of Jesus. A woman who is so righteous that her prayers truly availeth much.

    The Acts of the Apostles 9:4 And falling on the ground, he heard a voice saying to him: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
    When you persecute Jesus Christ’s body, you persecute him. Why do you persecute him?
    Come to the truth.
    God Bless you

    • Woody

      Good to see someone so knowledgeable and following Jesus’ “Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.”

  • Woody

    You missed something–get a real bible, “Unless you eat of My Flesh and Drink of My Blood, you shall have NO life within you.” Thank you, Jesus for you are God and God knows EVERYTHING.

  • “Cypriot catholic priests may ride donkeys for all I know or care.”

    You don’t care about donkeys? I understand. Christ employed and rode and directed that humble little creature perhaps an allegory of His preference over certain folks who deny that the Apostles can forgive sins. If it is unworthy to throw my pearls to pigs, perhaps I can try a donkey. Here you go. Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

    There is that “breath” this “wind” again and then the institution of the absolution of sin is granted. It shuns the argument of non-apostolics who can never answer unless they twist: how can mere men forgive sin?

    It is not mere men who forgive, but Christ being one with His church whom He authorized to give the daily grain sacrifice and the absolution of sin. It is not the Church itself that forgives (yet it does), but Christ forgiving through the Church.

    How else can the apostles “forgive sins”.

    Tell us Mrs. Cyprus

    • Woody

      Yes, and how can one “FORGIVE” OR “RETAIN” [a decision] unless SOMEONE “HEARS” the sins?
      Every priest is in Persona Christi…
      I am amazed that protestants are always “limiting” God e.g., “oh God can not do this,” oh, God would never do that,” etc. etc. God can do ALL things, “for My ways are not your ways,” Isaiah etc.

  • What now. You want to harass my customers too?

  • michelletherese

    WOW thank you so much!!!

  • The really slim shady

    Youre right, and they make pilgrimages to it.
    Still not sure where youre going with this.

  • The really slim shady

    Most people are doomed. And many of them consider themselves Christians.
    Im personally not too concerned with anybody elses walk, God will deal with them.

  • Woody

    cheer up, 176,000,000 Catholics in Africa mostly Muslim conversions; a missionary I met at a funeral last years said he and his fellow missionaries handed out 18,000,000 Rosaries in North Africa in 2012/2013 alone. Keep in mind the Church grew the fasted with the Roman persecutions — the Church grew by 40%, and from the Protestant point of view:

    The striking thing about what we discovered was that there are movements of Muslims to Christ, and by that I mean not just individuals, but movements of at least 1,000 within a community who have been baptized or 100 churches planted over the last two decades. We’re seeing, currently, 69 of these movements that have just been formed in the last two decades that are moving … from one end of the Muslim world to the other, so from West Africa to Indonesia and everywhere in between.

    I suppose one of the most striking examples is what’s happening in Iran today. We’re seeing that the Ayatollah Khomeini’s proving to be the greatest evangelist in the history of Iran because so many people are voting with their feet and they’re turning away from Islam and they’re walking toward really, all sorts of things. It’s not exclusively to Christianity, but certainly tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iranians in the last few decades have come to faith in Jesus Christ and followed him in baptism.
    God is still in charge!

  • Woody

    My quotes are directly from the real Bible, not from the one supposedly was “inerrant” as Luther tore 7 books out of it-what happened to “inerrant?” So now we have a Bible from luther rather than from God.

  • mspip

    He (Holy Spirit) is not wrong. you though seem to have some erroneous ideas. at one time i did too. this site is a revelation for our times. yes, narrow is the way. the key is are we on that way or on the other road.

  • M.R.R. Lopez

    We should not be adopting either catholic or Protestant. Jesus and his disciples are Jewish. We should be going back to the root 🙂 not taking advice of the leaves and branches that all are growing separate ways… but still apart of the family 🙂

  • Prove it.

  • Woody

    Sola Scriptura is a heresy itself; st Paul even said ” to hold fast to the tradtions” St. Joseph’s death is not in the bible thus that means he is still alive today; Veronica’s veil is not there either yet it exists, yatta yatta..