Mystery Babylon is Mecca, NOT Vatican

By Walid Shoebat

When it comes to Mystery Babylon, the common tendency amongst many Protestant theologians is to liken it to Rome. According to them, Rome is the city of seven hills. Others even equate it with Iraq, since this was home to the original Babylon. Years ago, many books were written about Saddam Hussein, who was allegedly hard at work, rebuilding Babylon. Christians gobbled up the books without truly examining the evidence. Saddam was simply rebuilding a tourist attraction where Nineveh once stood, the project was later abandoned and Saddam died on the gallows along with the prophecy books that included his name.

But when presenting a multitude of biblical evidence, people still angrily deny this interpretation because they have etched in their minds a verse or two insisting it’s still Rome, while adhering to a centuries-old theory initiated by Martin Luther. That plus today’s Catholics do not bite. In fact, a clue to the real Babylon was just presented in an article by Aaron Klein when he stated this week that:

“Forces in the Persian Gulf and Arab intelligence services have noted the establishment of Iranian missile launch sites aimed in the direction of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, according to Egyptian and Jordanian intelligence officials speaking to WND.”

Yet, no one in the prophecy arena has even raised a single red flag about the significance of this report; Iran (biblical Elam) must destroy Arabia. In Isaiah 21:9, Isaiah levels a prophetic oracle against Babylon using the same announcement in Revelation 18:1-2 and Revelation 14:8: “Babylon is fallen, is fallen”:

“The burden against Dumah” (Isaiah 21:11)
“The burden against Arabia” (Isaiah 21:13)
“All the glory of Kedar will fail” (Isaiah 21:16)

These are all in Arabia, which is destroyed by Iran “Elam” (Isaiah 21:2)

There has been an immense oversight by many in the field of biblical eschatology; that when it comes to the destruction of end-days Babylon, Scripture makes no mention of any of the ancient Babylonian cities: Nineveh, Ur, Babel, Erech, Accad, Sumer, Assur, Calneh, Mari, Karana, Ellpi, Eridu, Kish, or Tikrit. All of the literal references in Scripture are in Arabia.

The use “MOTHER OF HARLOTS”, while it is commonly attributed to the Vatican’s Mariology with the worship of Ishtar, history records that the worship of Ishtar “Kilili”, or “Queen of Harlots” [1] originated from Arabia, not Rome. In fact, when Muslims roam roundabout the black stone, it is a throwback to the worship of Ishtar, whom they called Athtar and Allat.

When it comes to the Harlot woman, the Kaaba is a perfect match. The black tarp is considered by Muslims to be a woman’s dress (Kiswa) as Edward Gibbons elaborated:

“…the kuswa of the magnificent Kaaba, is what is used for clothing of a [virtuous] covering, on top of it, it is written, the Kaaba’s dressing, meaning ‘we have dressed her her dress.” [2]

Everything that the harlot is described it fits the Ka’ba; dress, pearls, jewels, gold, silver and even the blasphemies etched in silver threads with golden inlays across her attire. Just the doors of the Ka’ba alone has 280 kilograms of pure gold.

The reference to a prostitute in Revelation 17 regarding the “Whore of Babylon” is no coincidence:

“And the woman (whore) was arrayed in purple and scarlet color” (v. 17)…

…resembles the near copulating with the Ka’ba’s Black Stone, which historically was dedicated to Aphrodite, the prostitute goddess that was called “Aphrodite Porne” (Aphrodite the Prostitute), “the goddess adorned in purple”, similar to the depictions given in Revelation 17:4, which the Ka’ba has a scarlet-colored inner garment. John of Damascus notes:

“After the Hajj was preformed by Muhammad, the ‘rubbing and kissing the [of the Black Stone]…was extremely passionate.’”

Muslim tradition even perpetuates the blasphemy that:

“Abraham had sexual intercourse with Hagar on it” (Sahas. Heresy, Pages 88-89).

Francis Burton writes regarding the Ka’ba:

“the part of the cover (Kiswa), covering the door, is called [a Burka] just like the veil the Arabic women are wearing in front of their face…in fact, Arab mystics even compare the Ka’ba to a virgin, adorned with her finest wedding dress.” (Vol 3, page 295)

Even today during their Hajj pilgrimage, Muslims kiss, rub and caress the Black Rock.

Furthermore, it is impossible to even consider that Isaiah 21 was referring to an historic battle between Persia and ancient Babylon since the multiple references throughout are not connected to ancient Iraq but to Kedar, Tema, Dedan and Dumah, which are all in Saudi Arabia near Yathrib (Medina), and today is known as “Dumat el-Jandal.” Dumah, one of the sons of Ishmael, is also associated with Edom and Seir in Isaiah 21:11. It is believed by many that Kedar, Ishmael’s son, is the line from which Muhammad descended.

Even Muslims recognize when they read Isaiah 21, they see Isaiah 21:14-15 as the story of Muhammad when the Muslims emigrated from Mecca to Medina (Tema) in which they were fed and rescued from the sword. No westerner was able to interpret:

“The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled. For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war.” (Isaiah 21:14-15)

The Bible depicts that in this time, it will not be like the time when Muhammad fled; all Arabia – including the Glory of Kedar (Mecca) – will be destroyed. How else can anyone interpret:

“No Arab will pitch his tent there, no shepherd will rest his flocks there” (Isaiah 13:20)

Arabs pitch tents in Arabia, not Rome. The ultimate fulfillment of this verse is the destruction of the Last-Days Babylon. We know this because the passage speaks about: “the day of the Lord” (v. 9) with the “heavens not giving light” (v. 10). This is not historical, but End-Times related.

Then we have the Red Sea:

“The earth is moved at the noise of their fall, at the cry the noise thereof was heard in the Red sea.” (Jeremiah 49:21)

The Red Sea is a geographic indicator as to where the Last-Days Babylon will be located. Look at Mecca on any map and you will see that it sits near the Red Sea. Some may object, saying that Jeremiah 49 is speaking about Edom, which was primarily located in modern day Jordan. Yet, in Ezekiel 25, “Edom” stretches from Teman (Yemen) to Dedan (Saudi Arabia)” (v. 13). Greater Edom included all of the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula.

Notice the description of her destruction:

“‘As Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown, along with their neighboring towns,’ says the LORD, ‘so no one will live there; no man will dwell in it,’” (Jeremiah 49:18).

It is no surprise that Iran is focused on Saudi Arabia, since the Bible predicted that the harlot is destroyed by the beast she rides, that is, the nations she deceieved with her spiritual harlotry—Islam.

This is the first installment in a two-part (maybe more) series about prophecy.

To be continued…

[1] Patricia Turner and Charles Russell Coulter, Dictionary of Ancient Deities, Page 242, Ishtar, Oxford University Press US, 2001.

[2] Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire, Volume 6, Chap. 1, Page 211., Little, Brown, and Company, 1855.

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  • citizen622

    When the EU started to be formed the bible prophesy people got all excited. It certainly seemed that everything was falling into place according to their way of thinking. Now the EU is falling apart. It is broke and with no real powerful military. I don’t know what they are thinking now but obviously the EU and the Vatican are not looking much like a powerful beast that Rome once was.
    Sadly, many Christians have so much hate, and resentment for the Catholic Church that they are blinded to the truth about what is actually happening in the middle east. They know nothing of world history. They just obsess about the Vatican, their idea of a one world religion and the renewed Roman empire. These resentments blind them to the truth.
    I never really studied the end time prophesies until I saw a video by Mr Shoebat where he went in depth into the old testament prophesies and the new testament prophesies and how they relate to each other. I watched it several times and wrote down all his references. I looked all these things up for myself. I also started studying the biblical names for the nations of prophesy that we see today. It is an eye opening experience. I am so thankful to Mr Shoebat for making that video and for all of his studies into bible prophesy.
    Islam is certainly the beast that is already raging and destroying in the middle east. The saints of God are already suffering and dying in the area.
    Pray that God will open the eyes of true believers to recognize that we are not standing against the EU or the Vatican. It is Islam that is our true enemy and a tool of Satan for the end days.

    • Shirley Anne

      You have stated all this revelation so succinctly. I had also learned about all this nonsense about the vatican being the end time beast…. bec. of the the 7 hills and scarlet and red that the Bishops and Cardinals wear…. this was through Herbert W. Armstrong and the World Wide Church Of God. That church has long been dismantled. most of the congregants formed a Grace church….. with all of the sunday and pagan feasts being observed now.. there is a small branch that have formed the Living Church Of God. They continue to observe the Lord’s appointed times… however, they have disseminated all kinds of literature on this Vatican business. there is another teacher, Joel Richardson that teaches, Islam is the true enemy. It is not a religion but a political system , Sharia Law , operating in the guise of religion. Which of course we know is a tool for satan , in the last days ! Be Blessed. shalom.

    • AndrewIsrael

      Actually the EU/UN/NATO makes sense from an Allies/Axis Standpoint if WW3 were to break out. I would not say its biblical rather a smart move by the Vatican and its alliances for it keeps Adolf Putin in check from invading other countries with his Fascist Totalitarian dream of a revived USSR.

      Walid Shoebat is so right with regards to Mystery Babylon=Mecca. Rome is undergoing a progressive Unitarian transformation for the better with Pope Francis. He actually sounds like Yeshu/Jesus would with his humility and standing up against Global Capitalism and what Francis calls “the Tyranny of the 21st Century”.

      For the love of G-d look at Saudi Arabia’s Net Worth! Talk about “for the love of money is the root of all evil”…Saudis are soaking in it!

      Also never forget Hitler was a Muslim. His closest alliance was with the Mufti of Jerusalem who was a SUNNI MUSLIM and he killed 4/5 Catholics in Europe therefore debunking all this Evangelical Cultic Crap that Hitler was a Catholic!

      “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”–Thomas Jefferson

      “The perfect type of fascist throughout recent centuries has been the Prussian Junker (Koch Brothers), who developed such hatred for other races and such allegiance to a military clique as to make him willing at all times to engage in any degree of deceit and violence necessary to place his culture and race astride the world. In every big nation of the world are at least a few people who have the fascist temperament. Every Jew-baiter, every Catholic hater, is a fascist at heart. The hoodlums who have been desecrating churches, cathedrals and synagogues in some of our larger cities are ripe material for fascist leadership.”–Henry Wallace, The Dangers of American Fascism

  • Winston

    Finally someone gets it right! But, that does not excuse the Roman Catholic cult of working with Islam to create a coming one-world religion which the Anti-Christ will control.

    • Shirley Anne

      Yes, after all, it was the catholic church at the root of the creation of Islam !!!!!! I wonder how many know this piece of history ???? satan is working on chrislam…… A pernicious cult leading to eternal death and separation from the one and only True Yahweh / Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob…. the Elohim of the Bible……. B = BASIC ; I = INSTRUCTION ; B = BEFORE ; L = LEAVING ; E = EARTH. Shalom.

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  • Great article, Walid. For other thoughts along the same vein, I’d like to recommend a few articles I’ve written over on MidnightWatcher’s Blogspot that many of your readers may also find interesting:

    Unsealed: A Closer Look At Revelation 6 And ‘The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse’ (

    The ‘Perfect Human Being’: How Can An Islamic Antichrist Present Himself As God And Receive Worship, Yet Remain A Servant Of ‘Allah’? (

    The Mark of the Beast – What Your Church May Not Be Telling You (

    I look forward to reading Part 2. God bless and keep up the great work.

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  • Grace

    Thought for sure I had left a question on this two weeks ago but will try again…
    Regarding the Kaaba as stated:

    “When it comes to the Harlot woman, the Kaaba is a perfect match. The black tarp is considered by Muslims to be a woman’s dress (Kiswa) as Edward Gibbons elaborated:

    “…the kuswa of the magnificent Kaaba, is what is used for clothing of a [virtuous] covering, on top of it, it is written, the Kaaba’s dressing, meaning ‘we have dressed her her dress.” [2]

    Everything that the harlot is described it fits the Ka’ba; dress, pearls, jewels, gold, silver and even the blasphemies etched in silver threads with golden inlays across her attire.”

    If the Harlot is suppose to be dressed in scarlet, I’m just not seeing it here. Is there another reference?

    I understand the Kiswa was at one time red and maybe perhaps it will be in the future, but it is black and so does not fit with the Scripture of the Harlot in vs 4 (not vs 17 as noted in article).

    Thank you for all this amazing information on Islam. It has been real eye opener. The LORD God of Israel bless, guide and protect you.

    • citizen622

      I know some think the scarlet refers to the robes of some of the Catholic ministers but that does not even begin to make sense. Scarlet in the bible sometimes references sin. “Your sins may be as scarlet…” I don’t really know about the Kaaba being what Revelation is referring to in Revelation. To be being robed in scarlet refers to the sin of the harlot. I’m sure there are many others with different ideas ideas on the subject. I do believe that Islam is the beast that is rising in the middle east.

      • citizen622, “Scarlet in the bible sometimes references sin. ‘Your sins may be as scarlet…'”

        That is a good point to make with respect to scarlet. The “harlot” is, after all, filled with abominations.

        Additionally, the color was also one that was associated with the fine materials used in the construction of the Temple, the dwelling place of God (cf. Exodus 26:1). In light of the full canvas of Scripture we now understand that the New Testament writers no longer defined the temple of God in terms of one that was made of stone, but rather as one made of people — the Ekklesia (the Church):

        1 Corinthians 3:17, “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.”

        1 Peter 2:5, “And now God is BUILDING YOU, AS LIVING STONES, into HIS SPIRITUAL TEMPLE. What’s more, you are God’s holy priests, who offer the spiritual sacrifices that please him because of Jesus Christ.” (NLT)

        Ephesians 2:19-22, “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner[stone], in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into A HOLY TEMPLE in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

        However, the “Babylonian Harlot” — the counterfeit of the Church — is Satan’s platform upon which he is attempting to exalt himself and become like the God of Heaven. The Ummah is a means to an end.

        As the Prophet Isaiah tells us, Satan has explicitly declared his intention to rise above the stars of God and to become like Him:

        Isaiah 14:12-14, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation … I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

        The Prophet Isaiah exposes Satan’s own corrupted ambitions, to magnify himself above everything that is called god, above everything that is associated with the God of gods, to be like God Himself. And the Ummah of Islam is the “throne” upon which Satan sits and intends to accomplish this. Exalting his throne above the “stars of God” may even be referring to the people of God, the Ekklesia:

        Deuteronomy 1:8-11, “‘See, I have set the land before you; go in and possess the land which the LORD swore to your fathers–to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob–to give to them and their descendants after them.’ … ’The LORD your God has multiplied you, and here you [are] today, AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN in multitude. ’May the LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times more numerous than you are, and bless you as He has promised you”

        The name of Satan in Isaiah 14:12 (Lucifer) is “heylel,” which means “light-bearer”. The Arabic equivalent of Satan’s name is “hilal,” which means “crescent moon.” Also consider the “Takbir” of Islam, the victory cry of “Allahu Akbar.” What are they saying? It doesn’t mean “God is great” as it is often translated in the West. It actually means “Allah is greater.” Greater than who? If it is Satan’s intention to be like the Most High and to exalt his throne above the stars of God and sit upon the mount of his own congregation, it only stands to reason that Satan will seek to accomplish these things and perform these blasphemies through the religious system to which he has given power and authority — Islam. After all, those who marvel and follow the Beast “worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast” (Rev 13:4), and Satan knows that when they are worshipping “Allah” and the image of the Beast, they are worshipping him. Satan is therefore working to exalt and magnify himself as the Prophet Isaiah described through his own “temple” and the religious ideology of Islam that diametrically opposes everything that the Judeo-Christian faith represents and stands for. But although the enemy will try to destroy what God has created, he cannot and will not prevail against the Ekklesia of God. All he can do is create his own corrupted version of God’s elect, to wage war against God’s elect, in an effort to replace God’s elect with one that is “arrayed in purpe and scarlet” and created in his own image. Just as the Ekklesia of YHWH is the “Body of Christ” (and also referred to as His Bride), Satan’s counterfeit of the Church — the Ummah — is the “Body of Antichrist” (and is referred to as the Harlot):

        * Yahweh has the Ekklesia (The congregation of God).
        * Satan has the Ummah (The congregation of Allah).

        * Yahweh’s Ekklesia is “as a bride adorned for her husband” and filled with “the glory of God”.
        * Satan’s Ummah is a harlot “decked with gold and precious stones and pearls” filled with abominations.

        * Yahweh has given the Ekklesia His Word, the Bible.
        * Satan has given the Ummah its corruption, the Qur’an.

        * Yahweh’s Ekklesia is the multitude of the Lamb, whom they follow.
        * Satan’s Ummah is the multitude of a man, the “prophet” Muhammed, whom they follow.

        * Yahweh’s Ekklesia comes out of Great Tribulation.
        * Satan’s Ummah is responsible for it.

        * Yahweh’s Ekklesia receives the seal of God upon their foreheads and are redeemed.
        * Satan’s Ummah receives the Mark of the Beast upon their foreheads and are condemned.

        * Yahweh’s Ekklesia will be lead to springs of living waters.
        * Satan’s Ummah will drink of the wine of the wrath of God.

        In the “theatre” of Biblical eschatology, the stage is already set. It is ready for the final act. All “props” are in position. The “characters” are in full costume. And the world is watching in attendance. Very soon we will witness the final act begin, and through Islam Satan will make his final stand against the Prince of princes.

    • The “harlot” is described figuratively by John in Revelation 17, and the Kaaba is merely a physical representation or manifestation as it were of the figurative “harlot”. Since the harlot is not a literal woman, it only stands to reason that words used to describe her in Revelation 17 be understood symbolically or metaphorically as well.

      So what is she? She is a counterfeit and perversion of the Bride of Christ (the Church). Whereas the Bride of Christ is described as “a bride adorned for her husband” (Rev 21:2) who is filled with “the glory of God” and is “like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal” (Rev 21:11), the “harlot” counterfeit of the Church is described figuratively by John as “full of names of blasphemy” and as being “arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness” (Rev 17:3-4). We will never see a figurative “harlot” physically clothed in purple and scarlet any more than we would see a precious jasper stone adorned on the Bride of Christ. These terms are used not to describe what they are, but rather what they are like, and the “harlot” being “arrayed in purple and scarlet colour” should be understood in the sense that she is treated like “royalty” – which these colors are representative of.

      If she is the antithesis of the Bride of Christ, who could she be specifically? She is the greatest of all “harlots” that the world has ever seen or will ever see. John’s description of the “harlot” describes Islam as it exists today perfectly. More specifically, he is describing the Islamic Ummah (the Muslim “church” if you will), the direct counterfeit of the Bride of Christ. She is the “harlot” of a man (the false prophet Mohammed) who is himself regarded as a “king” and is characterized as “the crown of all creation” by the Muslim world (see The “harlot” demands that she herself be therefore treated and revered as royalty over all the kingdoms of the earth, and this is something that the West is doing today in increasing measure at its own peril.

      Revelation 18:3, “For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries …”

      • citizen622

        Excellent ideas and references. You are right that both purple and scarlet often refer to riches and/or royalty.

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  • David McDougall

    The Vatican also has a role in world monetary laundering …and the apostasy of the church was clearly to come from within the church, reading in 2Thes 2, Acts 20, and other places. Still, Walid makes some undeniably parallel observations …and this too is a pattern of prophecy throughout the scriptures. If systems, rulers, patterns of behavior, etc. mirror that which is evil …it’s still ‘not a good thing’ …

    • Julie LaBrecque

      You think the printing press is what “exposed and defeated the church”? You must grab a little bit here and there from good anti-Catholic sources, because Gutenberg, inventor of the printing press was Catholic and the first book he published was The Bible, the whole bible, all 73 books. Did your church canonize the Bible? Besides historical evidence against your theory, Jesus promised that His church would always exist, never would the gates of hell prevail against it. You would probably be shocked and ashamed to find out the Christopher Columbus was Catholic, and the ship, the Santa Maria’s full name is The Holy Mary of the Immaculate Conception. Do yourself a favor, read the early church fathers who were taught by the very apostles themselves, read their writings that declare their beliefs and practices. In case you don’t know who the “church fathers’, here’s a short list. Ignatius of Antioch, Iranaeus of Lyon, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Clement. If you don’t understand “the keys” that Jesus gave to Peter, read Isaiah 22 to learn what keys and binding and loosing are. Jesus left us a Kingdom, not a democracy. Through all salvation history, the Good Father in heaven has never left His children on earth without a shepherd on earth to guide them.

  • AndrewIsrael

    Mystery Babylon is Mecca NOT America. 9-11 was caused by Islamic extremists. Only Islam has ever succumb to terrorism considering it is a cult of hate.

    Adolf Hitler is considered the most evil man of the 20th century and his actions proved he was a secret Muslim because he made a pact with the SUNNI Mufti of Jerusalem so that he would make an Arab army in the Middle East. Hitler also seduced the idiot Protestants into his Nazi Cult because they were easy suckers since they rejected Pope Pius XII warnings condemning Hitler as a “Nordic Pagan”.

    Muslims are Pagans not Monotheists. Islam has spread more violence, bloodshed, intolerance, arrogance, and deceit wherever it goes. It does not tolerate religious freedom and hence is Fascistic by nature. Look at all the Islamic countries that surround Israel and all you see is Totalitarianism.

    SO much so that the Saudi Royalty bath in their luxury at the expense of the poor Muslims who have been suckered into worshipping their pagan cult. I feel so sorry for Muslims for not understanding how obvious all of this is to the rest of the world. They must repent and convert to Roman Catholicism in order to be saved. Only through Jesus shall one be saved and understand the love that he brought to the world. Jesus brought peace, love, tolerance, mercy, charity unlike Islam which is Satanic and Barbarian since Mohammed.

    “He who hears you (Peter) hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me (Lk 10:16).” It could not be clearer: the Protestant who rejects the head, rejects Christ himself, and should not be granted the name Christian.

    Christ establishes one Church with a single head: “And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt 16:19).

    St. Paul is severe in his condemnation of false teachers, e.g. Protestants: “If any man preaches any other Gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Gal 1: 9).

    In another passage he instructs Catholics to remove themselves from the bad society of non-Catholics: “And we charge you, brethren, in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the Tradition which they have received of us” (2 Thess 3:6).

    The Apostle St. John forbade any intercourse with heretics: “If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house or welcome him” (2 Jo 1:10)”Holy Scriptures are clear on the point that only those who belong to the one Church founded by Christ, the Catholic Church, can rightfully be considered Christians.

    Pius XII stated unequivocally: “To be Christian one must be Roman. One must recognize the oneness of Christ’s Church that is governed by one successor of the Prince of the Apostles who is the Bishop of Rome, Christ’s Vicar on earth” (Allocution to the Irish pilgrims of October 8, 1957). How is it possible to be clearer than this about those who can be called Christian?

    Leo XIII makes it plain that separated members cannot belong to the same body: “So long as the member was on the body, it lived; separated, it lost its life. Thus the man, so long as he lives on the body of the [Catholic] Church, he is a Christian; separated from her, he becomes a heretic” (Encyclical Satis cognitum of June 29, 1896).

    Emphasizing the fate of those who break away from the one Faith, he says: “Whoever leaves her [the Catholic Church] departs from the will and command of Our Lord Jesus Christ; leaving the path of salvation, he enters that of perdition. Whoever is separated from the Church is united to an adulteress” (ibid.). Certainly, they do not share with us the same title of Christian.

    Pope Pius IX stated: “He who abandons the Chair of Peter on which the Church is founded, is falsely persuaded that he is in the Church of Christ” (Quartus supra of January 6 1873, n. 8).

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  • NONAZITeabaggers!

    I am being objective and as a former Jew converted to Roman Catholicism I can clearly see that Hitler was NO Catholic he was a Mooslum. Why else would Hitler conquer all of Christian Europe under his Nazi Cult and throw over 5 million Catholics in the ovens? Why would he make a pact with the Mufti of Jerusalem? Why would Hitler make an Arab SS, visit Saudi Arabia, while also being funded by the Far-Right Wing Fascists in the US?
    Britain? As you know the British and the US fought against the Nazis for they have polar opposite views. Now to the Muslims they loved Hitler because he was conquering Europe for them which was controlled by the Christians but as were seeing today is being Islamicized and therefore brings out the Neo-Nazis and the rise of Anti-Semitism were seeing in Europe!!
    And don’t give me bs conspiracy theories like the Rothschilds and George Soros who are in fact keeping America in check against the Nazi Kochs and have always been an escape by Nazis.
    Islam is Nazi by design. Its clearly Fascist and is the “Anti-Christ” religion predicted in the Bible because Jesus himself warned against false prophets. Mohammed is clearly the worst of all false prophets who has brought more violence, terrorism, and bloodshed in the name of Islam. Its the mother of all cults and the abomination of the earth proven through its fruits.

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  • shoebat

    Must I write an entire book to prove it to you? But I have. “The burden against Arabia” has never been a historic event. If so, please show us from history how this was fulfilled? And it does not say “Iraq” either, so your use of “probably Iraq” is simply your assumption. Once you read “For it is the day of Jehovah’s vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. Its streams shall be turned into pitch and its dust into brimstone; its land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night or day; its smoke shall ascend forever” (Isaiah 34:8-10).

    Incredibly, almost three millennia before the discovery of fuel oil, Isaiah predicted the burning of the very thing that was used in Babel to build a name for the rebellious ones—the pitch. Pitch is bitumen and tar, which technically is simply crude oil. Have you ever wondered why God calls the Antichrist “Nimrod” in Micah 5? His roots go back to Babel.

    Notice that the land shall not be “like” burning pitch but shall actually become burning pitch—there is no simile here. This prophecy could only be fulfilled in an oil rich land.

    Ezekiel 25 tells us what this Edom is. Ezekiel 25 also reveals exactly how God feels about Edom: “Thus Says the Lord God;
    “Because that Edom hath dealt against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and hath greatly offended, and revenged himself upon them. Therefore thus says the Lord God; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword” (v. 13).

    Teman is in Yemen, while Dedan was an ancient city in central Saudi Arabia that is now known as Al-Ula. Because of the use of both Teman and Dedan, we are to understand that the entire landmass stretching southward along the Red Sea and well into central Saudi Arabia is being highlighted. The Jewish Tanakh translates this verse; “from Teman to Dedan.” This is a massive area.

    So perhaps you can tell us and enlighten us, when were these prophecies fulfilled? Its a simple question in which the only answer is the failure of your historic reference. Its prophetic.

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  • Dr.Green

    Babylon represents the ”Arab World”, and its head quarters in Mecca the religious city found in the desert sitting over seven hills that will be seen going up in flames from the Red sea.

    The Great harlot represents the Arab women sitting over the Beast with 7 heads the mixture of soldiers that represent The Arabian Army, and actual heritage. The Golden cup in her hand symbolyses the ”wine” produced by her in the desert. Oil in which ”The nations have gone insane over..” She’s regarded as a harlot because her prime goal is to promote actual sexual immorality among women, while the Beast, male Arab promotes war – Jihad.

    It’s also important to understand that Babylon buys, and sells souls which means corrupted non arabs can be considered part of this empire too.

  • Dr.Green

    Babylon represents the ”Arab World”, and its head quarters in Mecca the religious city found in the desert sitting over seven hills that will be seen going up in flames from the Red sea.

    The Great harlot represents the Arab women sitting over the Beast with 7 heads the mixture of soldiers that represent The Arabian Army, and actual heritage. The Golden cup in her hand symbolyses the ”wine” produced by her in the desert. Oil in which ”The nations have gone insane over..” She’s regarded as a harlot because her prime goal is to promote actual sexual immorality among women, while the Beast, male Arab promotes war – Jihad.

    It’s also important to understand that Babylon buys, and sells souls which means corrupted non arabs can be considered part of this empire too.

  • There are two types of stupid people:

    1) One who calls others stupid without proving their case.

    2) One who is stupid because he uses a few verses without examining the rest.

    You said:

    “Rome is well known as “the city of seven hills””

    To prove your case you ned to show WHO labeled Rome as HARLOT and is what Revelation spoke of.

    Can you answer this? Was it any church father? Any Christian from the first century? Second? Third? Fourth?

    You can’t produce such evidence that Rome was known as the city of seven hills.

    It was these Albigensians who affirmed the belief that the Roman Church was the Harlot of Babylon spoken of in the Book of Revelation.

    But you are so stupid you do not know this. Neither can you refute it because you are a dummy.

    Because of this belief, the Albigensians sought out ways to utterly uproot Christianity from Europe. But for the sake of brevity I cannot describe all of their crimes, so I will mention one of the most significant. The head of this heretical group, Raymond of Toulouse, wanted the Muslims to destroy all of Christendom, and so sent his emissaries to the king of Morocco to give this request. (2)

    We have heard many a time that it was the Catholic Church who collaborated with Muhammad, but the reality is that it was the Catholics who combated Islam while the heretics worked with the Muslims.

    Who else taught that the Harlot of Babylon is the Catholic Church? There was another sect that came about in Bohemia in the 15th century called the Hussites, or followers of John Huss.

    John Huss

    The Hussites rejected the Catholic Church’s authority, denounced the use of holy water, oils, the chalice, priestly vestments, all fasts, all feast days accept Sunday, open confession, prayers to the saints, reverence of holy images and all other Catholic rituals. (3)

    These beliefs sound all well and good to the common Evangelical pastor, but lets look into their actions in order to see their intentions, for by their fruits you shall know them.

    When Pope John XXIII issued a Bull declaring Huss a heretic, his followers seized it and placed it on the breast of a local prostitute and paraded her to represent her as the “whore of Babylon”, before casting it into the flames. (4)

    A major faction within the Hussite heresy were the Taborites, who were founded when numerous Hussites ascended Mount Tabor to receive Communion. These shunned the Church Fathers, denied purgatory, prayers for the dead, and missals.

    The Hussites established their own hegemony in Bohemia, where they would greatly persecute Catholics for not accepting the teachings of John Hus, their founder. Hussite professors in the University of Prague established a tyrannical council which would rule Bohemia; thus the university became the new Vatican. Hussite Lord Chenek of Wartenberg arrested the bishop Hermann of Prague and compelled him to appoint radical Hussites as priests. The archbishop Conrad condemned these actions and nullified the ordinations of these heretical priests. The committee of tyrants of the university more fervently connected themselves with Hussite doctrine and even imprisoned one of its own professors, Peter of Unichov, a sharp critique of Hussite thought. They tortured him and threatened him with death if he did not proclaim John Hus as a teacher of God.

    The Hussites published their own manifesto in which it reads “that the faithful should repress all public sins.” It was a jurisprudence akin to Sharia, with anybody not agreeing with John Huss being deserving of punishment. A Taborite army under the command of John “the One Eyed,” captured the castle of Sedlec, killed its owner Ulrich and all of his retainers, and then cruelly told a group of six that if one of them wanted to be spared he had to decapitate the other five (and one of them did in fact comply).

    The One Eyed was ruthless and pitiless; he captured priests and monks and burnt them alive, for he saw them as the ones who persecuted John Hus. Divisions broke out within the Hussites and the One Eyed saw to it that dissenters were also put to the flames. When Sigimund’s commanders executed four hundred Hussite prisoners, the Hussites responded by massacring one thousand four hundred Catholics. Twenty four priests were kidnapped and told that their lives would be spared if they accepted the Hussite manifesto, and no less than twenty one refused and were bunt alive. (5) A bloody war was fought between Catholic and Hussite, with the Catholics being the victors in the end.

    Even the heathen Mongols wished to destroy Rome and all of Christendom. The emperor of the Mongols, Cuyuc Khan, had even wanted to war “against the Church of God and the Roman Empire, and against all the states of Christendom and the people of the west”. (6)

    Moreover, a most damaging fact to the belief that the Catholic Church is the Harlot of Babylon, is that Joseph Smith–the founder of Mormonism–himself adopted this view.

    Joseph Smith

    The Book of Mormon directly attacks the Catholic Church, having the “prophet” Nephi declare that the Catholic Church was founded by Satan and was the mother of harlots:

    And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it. And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots. …that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots (I Nephi 13: 5-7, 34) (7)

    Latter Day Saints president, George A. Smith, promulgated this belief in 1870:

    If you talk with the various Protestant denominations about these points they will tell you that the Catholic Church had degenerated, that it had gone into darkness, was anti-Christ, and all this sort of thing, which doubtless was correct; and according to modern revelation this must be true; and being true, we are urged to the conclusions that all the sects and parties of the religious world are wandering into darkness. (8)

    The Albigensians and the Hussites agreed that the Catholic Church was the whore of Babylon, and before you begin to have a liking for these groups because of this belief, there is another heretic that you should know about who also saw the Catholic Church as the archenemy: Muhammad himself.


    Muhammad even prophesied that the Muslims would first conquer Constantinople and then Rome. At the time of Muhammad, Christianity was Catholicism, since Islam was founded centuries before the Reformation or even before the Eastern Orthodox schism from the Roman Catholic Church. The Quran, essentially, is a direct attack against the Catholic Church. Surah V in the Quran actually misconstrues the Catholic doctrine of Mary and accuses Catholics of worshipping Mary, a claim which Evangelicals accept and Catholics deny:

    And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?’” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

    This is why in 846 the Muslims made invaded Rome. It was in this glorious city where Saint Peter and Saint Paul preached, and it was now here where the Muslims sacked their sepulchers. They saw such profound monuments as idols, and when they entered the tomb of Peter they stripped away a silver altar, and overran Saint Peter’s church in the name of Allah and for their hatred of the Gospel. (9) They were not going to leave; they did not come for a vacation to Rome on cruise ships and decided to leave after a comfortable tour to the Vatican for Palermo–they were sticking around and a leader was needed to crush them. Pope Leo IV arose as the defender of the city.

    Pope Leo IV

    When he first became pontificate he consecrated entire days to prayer and religious processions to render hope unto the people and to kindle the fire of Christian zeal after it had been blown away by the Islamic barbarians. He had the city’s walls repaired; fifteen towers were built or renewed, and an iron chain was drawn across the Tiber river to hinder any enemy naval ships from sailing into Italy. Before the Muslims returned to Rome Leo made a powerful prayer, that the God who had protected Saint Peter and St. Paul on the confounding waves of the sea would fortify the hands of his warriors who were about to fight the enemies of Christ. The Muslims made their maddening prayer to Allah and advanced for a naval attack. Strong winds came upon the seas and merciless waves crashed right into their ships; Muslims were dashed to pieces on rocks and those who survived shipwreck received no quarter from the pursuing Italian Christians. The remaining survivors were forced to labor for the repairs of the churches they vandalized, and thirteen silver bows found amongst the Arabs were used to ornament the altar of Christ. (10)

    The Muslims till this day wish to destroy Rome, hence why in 2009 Yusuf Qaradaw–the most respected scholar in the Sunni Muslim world–stated:

    So Constantinople has been conquered and now the second part of the prophecy remains, which is the conquest of Rome.

    This hatred for Rome as an institution of the devil, was agreeable to the Protestant Reformers. The Muslims–under the Ottomans–still aspired to take Rome and destroy the Catholic Church in the days of Luther, and it was he and his followers who were willing to help.

    Luther and his followers saw the Catholic Church as an institution of Satan that needed to be destroyed.

    “Why,” said Luther, “if men hang the thief upon the gallows; or if they put the rogue to death,–why should not we, with all our strength, attack these Popes, and Cardinals, these dregs of the Romish Sodom? Why not wash our hands in their blood?” (11)

    For this reason, Luther favored the Muslims and saw them as the tool of God to punish Europe for its sins, and hence the same reformer condemned crusading against Islam. John Foxe, a famous Protestant leader, claimed that he could not be certain as to whether the sultan of the Turks or the pope “hath been the more bloody and pernicious adversary to Christ.” (11.5)

    The Protestant bishop of Salisbury John Jewel wrote this in 1571:

    The Turk, they say, is now hovering upon Italy. He will at least bridle the ferocity of antichrist [the pope]. (12)

    John Jewel

    Zwingli, another major Protestant reformer, held the Turks as “Protestant allies.” (12.5)

    England and other Protestant powers even provided the Turks with war material, specifically tin which was essential for the Turkish cannons.

    In 1529, once Luther realized that his own life was on the line, since the Turks were approaching Vienna, he wrote that war needed to be done, but not by the Pope, (13) as though he was now to be dictating who should and who should not lead battles.

    It is stated repeatedly that Babylon is the mother of all idolatry. But my research shows that the mother-land of idolatry is not today’s Iraq, but Arabia, and that therefore Islam, with its Arabian origin, is the antichrist system.


    In order to understand the antichrist system, one must comprehend the Tower of Babel, its religious system and its origins.

    The Tower of Babel is known to have been built by Nimrod, (14) a son of Cush, the founder of Ethiopia.

    Many have hastily identified Nimrod with a Sudanese or Ethiopian African, but my research shows that once Scripture and historical records are closely examined, Nimrod is found to be geographically a Southern Arabian. The most explicit biblical evidence for Arabia’s identity with Cush is Habakkuk 3:7:

    I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.

    Cushan, or Ethiopia, is clearly identified here as Midian, or a part of Arabia. (15)

    Genesis 10:10 recounts that Nimrod founded a city in Mesopotamia called Akkad, which means that when Nimrod reigned in Mesopotamia there were Akkadians in existence in that region. In my whole research page I have shown how Akkadians, archeologically, have been found to be originally South Arabs, being related to the Sabaeans, a powerful South Arabian people.

    Also in Sudan there were Sabaeans who affirmed that their place of origin was a region called Meroe (originally called Saba), and according to the ancient writer Juba, the entire Nile Valley from the city of Aswan in Egypt to Meroe was inhabited not by Ethiopians but by Arabians. This then helps shed light on the Arabian identity with Nimrod.

    In my research I show that because of the south Arabian identity of both the Akkadians and Nimrod, it is conclusive that the pagan religion of ancient Arabia was followed in Shinar, where Nimrod’s kingdom was founded. Therefore the religion on which the Tower of Babel was based, had to have been Arabian. Who were then the deities of this religion?

    We know that in both the Akkadian pantheon and language there is reference to a deity named “Alla”. I was the first point out that in the Atrahasis epic, which was written in Akkadian, there is mention of the god Alla, and that this god had to be equal to the Islamic Allah.

    When the Akkadians traveled from south Arabia to Mesopotamia, they brought along with them their gods Athtar (Venus) and Shamash (the sun), both deities native to south Arabia. ‘Athtar is really a south Arabian equivalent to Allah, and the image of Allah–the Blackstone in Mecca–originally was dedicated to Allat or Athtar (Venus). Allat, in pagan religion, was both male and female, and thus equal to Allah.

    With all of this said, we can now bring the connection between Allah and the Tower of Babel. In my research I show that several assyriologists–such as Budge, G. Rawlinson, and Stephan Langdon–have written on a certain tower discovered in Iraq called the House of the Seven Lights of the Earth, which has been identified with the Tower of Babel since after Nebuchadnezzar repaired it he wrote:

    …[T]his edifice, the House of the Seven Lights of the Earth, the most ancient monument of Borsippa:–a former king built it (they reckon 42 ages), but he did not complete its head. Since a remote time people had abandoned it without order expressing their words. Since that time the earthquake and the thunder had dispersed its sun-dried clay; the bricks of the casing had been split; and the earth of the interior had been scattered in heaps. (16)

    The “Seven Lights” refer to the tower’s seven stages, each of which was dedicated to a particular planet or deity. For this summary article, we will only focus on the fifth stage which pertains to the subject at hand, because it was dedicated to Venus or Ishtar or ‘Athtar. (17) According to Strabo Borsippa was dedicated to Artemis, (18) which would have been this very goddess, who was worshipped as Allat since a Greek engraving from 6 B.C. reads “Allat who is Artemis”. (19) This has a direct connection with Allah since he was the same as Allat, thus bridging the gap between the Islamic Allah and the Tower of Babel.

    Thus when Isaiah speaks about the destruction of Babylon, he describes it geographically as Arabia, citing areas such as Seir, Teman, Dedanim, and Kedar:

    And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, [with] a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground. O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you. The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night? The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will enquire, enquire ye: return, come.The burden upon Arabia. In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companies of Dedanim. The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled. For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war. For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail: And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished: for the LORD God of Israel hath spoken [it]. (Isaiah 21:9-17)

    Theodore Shoebat is the author of the book, For God or For Tyranny

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    (1) *Carroll, A History of Christendom, vol. iii, ch. v, pp. 164-165; Moczar, Seven Lies about Catholic History, ch. iv, p. 89-91*

    (2) *Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay, History of the Albigensian Crusade, 12, 394, trans. W.A. Sibly and M.D. Sibly*

    (3) *See Carroll, A History of Christendom, vol. iii, ch. xii*

    (4) *Garvie, The Christian Preacher, p. 120*

    (5) *See Carroll, A History of Christendom, vol. iii, ch. xii, pp. 508-511*

    (6) *Carpini, The Story of the Mongols Whom We Call The Tatars, ch. 8, p. 86, trans. Erik Hildinger*

    (7) *That this verse is directed against the Catholic Church, see Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, ch. iv, p. 60*

    (8) *Remarks by President George A. Smith, Reported by David W. Evans, Journal of Discourses, 13*

    (9) *See Gibbon, Decline and Fall, vol. v, ch. lii, p. 973*

    (10) Gibbon, Decline and Fall, vol. v, ch. lii, pp. 973-975*

    (11) *See the Rev. John Fletcher, notes to the fourth letter of Maistre on the Spanish Inquisition*

    (11.5) *See Jonathan Harris, The Ottoman Threat, in Thomas F. Madden, The Crusades, ch. viii, p. 193*

    (12) *Bishop Jewel to H. Bullinger, in Hastings Robinson, The Zurich Letters*

    (12.5) Scott H. Hendrix, Recultivating the Vineyard, p. 165, 2004

    (13) *See Jonathan Harris, The Ottoman Threat, in Thomas F. Madden, The Crusades, ch. viii, p. 193*

    (14) *That Nimrod was the king in Shinar during the building of the Tower of Babel, see Faber, Pag. Idol., vol. i, b. i, ch. i, p. 75. “The ringleader in this rebellion was Nimrod: for the city,” writes Faber, “which engaged in building, was called Babel or Babylon; and the beginning of Nimrod’s kingdom is said to have been Babel and three subordinate towns: their city also was built in the land of Shinar; and Nimrod’s Babel is likewise said to have been situated in the land of Shinar. There can be no doubt, therefore, that Nimrod’s Babel was the identical Babel”.*

    (15) *See R. Jamieson’s commentary on Habakkuk 3:7*

    (16) *Quoted in Philip Smith, Ancie. Hist., ch. x, pp. 200-201. Brackets and ellipses mine.*

    (17) *See G. Rawlinson, The Religions of the Ancient World, ch. ii, p. 71.*

    (18) *Strabo, Geography, 16.1.7*

    (19) *See Javier Teixidor, The Pantheon of Palmyra, ch. iii, pp. 61-63.*

    • Andy Holland

      While of course agree with you the Catholic Church is fine, and there is a difference between being and being at, Peter wrote: “The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.”

      We (Christians) overthrew Rome with the weapon of peace and trophy of invincible (the truth faith and the cross).

      We can do the same to them. We repay them by dashing their little ones (sins) against the Rock.

      • This Babylon (the actual one, now located in Iraq and a home to 1st Century Christianity) is not quite the Devil whore cult etc etc etc Protestants yammer on about.

        • Andy Holland

          Babylon is the world religion that tries to make a paradise on earth, and usually requires death of others on a massive scale to realize it. Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the lord (a type of demon).

          • Not to that quote by Peter. Babylon was among the first Christian bishoprics in Christianity. It stayed as the seat of the Church of the East until Muslims invaded Mesopotamia, making the city weakened until the final blow, thanks to the Mongol invasioNs (which also mangled Baghdad. No need to make a Protestant allegory when simple history can settle the issue.

          • Andy Holland

            I read Scriptures with the Fathers, I suggest you do the same. If you feel that is “Protestant” maybe you could use a little more knee time and a few more rosaries. I know I do but the log in your eye is showing.

          • That particular line has nothing to do with Babylon in that sense. That’s the point I’m getting at.

            As for reading the Fathers, this is the Orthodox tradition. We read them as intensely as the Bible itself. Sometimes, you have to admit when you’re wrong. I’m happy to when it is appropriate. It’s not in this case.

          • Andy Holland

            Read I Peter last line.

          • I’m going by 1 Peter 5:13 in the KJV.

            To quote:

            To him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 12By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.13The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with [you], saluteth you; and [so doth] Marcus my son. 14Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace [be] with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

            This is clearly referring to the city of Babylon of that day. We both agree that Babylon is used as an allegory for corruption.

            But the last line is here:

            25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

            We agree that the Lord’s Word endures forever. That doesn’t answer my quibble about Babylon being the actual city in reference to the above quote, that’s all.

          • Andy Holland

            Well that was my point, Babylon is an allegory for corruption of the World, flesh and devil. So what are we arguing about?

            Go confess to your spiritual Father that you encountered a Christmated Orthodox turned Uniate and owing to your overbearing attitude confirmed to him the correctness of going to Rome. Not for love of the music or liturgy but as a breath of fresh air.

            There is nothing worse spiritually than to be the elder prodigal: as beautiful as the liturgy and incense are, and Fathers, listening to self righteous egoist put downs of protestants and catholics, listening constantly to the prayer of the pharisee – I prefer the company of publicans, tax collectors and sinners.

          • You’re mad you were corrected, and have made quite a show out of it. We’re done with the topic.

            I’ll go to my spiritual father and let him know what went down, and will show him the dialog. You have behaved like a shrew over what should have not been a big deal, just a correction. There are Evangelicals, Anglicans and Roman Catholics on this list who, through some great miracle, didn’t get offended by this. You, however, have.

            Take your own medicine and beg forgiveness from your own spiritual father.

          • Andy Holland

            I am angry Orthodox act like the Pharisee and not the publican on line. And near as I can tell we violently agreed.
            May the Lord Jesus Rebuke you.
            I will be confessing, you go confess.

          • Indeed.

          • Andy Holland

            You made a crack about Protestantism – I don’t like that Spirit.

            The Roman Catholic Church has many problems, with the proper spirit the Orthodox could help. But the elder prodigal loves his inheritance more than his brother.

            But the fatted calf, the beauty of the Holy Virgin pregnant with the Savior was written without human hands and delivered to the poor in the West, so you might know to come into the house and make merry:


          • Now we’re finding some common ground.

          • Andy Holland

            In the West, when you study the Western Fathers, you will find they spoke of the Holy Spirit that proceeds from the Father with or through the Son etc….. which is DIFFERENT from the experience of the East as prophesied in Ezekial. Plants like trees receive their energy directly from the sun.

            The East receives directly from the Father as deified and Christ like, and the the West as prophesied in the Song of Solomon receives through the Son venerated in the Monstrance. Animals receive their energy from the sun through grass.

            So the East can pray Psalm 1 in first person, and the West prays Psalm 1 seeing Christ Himself as the Blessed man.

            Neither the Western Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox understand the beauty depth and prophecy of the Christian religion. The Orthodox put the Councils between tthemselves and God, the Catholics put the Papacy of Peter (the East has the Papacy of the Holy Spirit) and the Protestants put the Scriptures.

            And this distance is the fruit of the leaven if the pharisees that the East cultivates in super orthodoxy , the leaven of the Herodians that the West cultivates in licentiousness and luxury, sowing an evil covetousness, and the Protestants can be infested with both. The leaven of the pharisee I personally despise, but I can work through the other malady with Christ and discernment.

            We cannot be consumed by one another but the time to understand our various diseases has come, and rid ourselves of these horrible leavens. (And Saint Mark of Ephesus was fully right to “put off the work” at the Council of Florence – the East would have been consumed)

            Our divisions exist for a reason, proper – to kindle the Holy Spirit. But the leaven of the pharisee and the Herodians must end.

          • I’ve been one to think that over the last 20 years. Those Protestants of a serious bent, those under the Trinitarian tent, are making good headway into learning not just about what Rome actually teaches, but what the Church Fathers and Eastern Orthodoxy teaches. It was one of the most heartening things to see Wheaton College, a bastion of Evangelical thought, start up a Patristics Department for their students to understand the Christianity of the first thousand years most of their clergy gloss over.

            Now, as for East and West, there is a serious thought that the two (or three, if you include the Oriental Orthodox Church) are all puzzle pieces who need to come back together at the right time.

            All major components of Christianity are missing something. From the Orthodox point-of-view, I don’t mind that we cling to tradition. This is part of Eastern thinking, and it won’t go away. What I see as a huge problem, however, is the fact that, because tradition is so important, especially to the unchurched who come from Europe and the Middle East who bring culture and forget not only religion but evangelization. This is a cancer that has to be lanced. In the US, Orthodoxy has been here and didn’t bother to fix the problem for generations. Now, converts are bringing in energy and they want to see change. They’re also less inclined to hold on to old bigotries. Some will be smell-and-bells types, but many are saying NO to hiding from the world. I never saw this is Russia, nor Macedonia, Serbia or Bulgaria, all places I lived for long stretches of time. It seems to be here, in Australia and parts of Western Europe where there is a defensive mindset.

            Let’s see where this goes.

          • Andy Holland

            People are becoming radicalized everywhere – becoming who they are good and bad. Our sins and little good is becoming obvious – perhaps owing to mass communication or the end is near.

            There are evangelical protestants who are raising the dead and curing diseases in Jesus name. While they are not of the disciples some of them have received apostolic gifts, and do not have problems with Holy Tradition or Icons – they focus only on the Bible and Christ.

            The secularist atheists (MaGog) are racing to the void. Gog of the Levant is arising. The nations are rising up to destroys themselves.

          • I’m all for good people being, at minimum, left alone to do God’s work, and at most, being supportive of a fellow Christian.

            As for the rest, I think we see eye to eye on the current situation of this world.

    • Facts: an enema for the more hateful Protestant babble we read here.

  • katz

    one question to you why have you deleted my post on kazistan mafia? because it shows a different view?

    • Katz,

      The comments is controlled by Disquss and I lose my own comments many times. Never heard of “kazistan mafia” or have I deleted your amazing comments. Trust me. I am not into deleting comments as you can see I preserve the craziest of comments.

  • katz

    hate to tell you this but Christianity is not a religion, it is a following of Jesus Christ thus the word christ-ianity religions are man made and all have worship of false Gods

    • You know how many comments I get about Christianity being a “religion” or “not a religion”?

  • katz

    I agree with umar there is more to this than meets the eye thus the reason our comments are deleted when written by walid himself, I posted many comments here and many showing a point of view he does not agree with and he deletes them because they show truth, all this is divisional hatred which they enjoy inflicting on us all. the agenda to bring in the NWO I’m sure your all aware of this, so to lead you into the correct path go look up Rothschild’s mafia, your answer lies there, but I’m sure walid will censor this aswell as it goes against his own agenda, but remember walid you also shall be judged for leading people astray so beware of what you do

    • Katz,

      People believe all sorts of things I have no time to indulge, especially that “Shobat” (its Shoebat) is strictly Jewish as that idiot above named Umar say, which is a name you can look up in Arabic translate and find my clan in Bethlehem in the Arabic language. The other conspiracy theory I cant stand (which I get a lot) is that I deleted your comments as if they are crucial to humanities survival. There not. I don’t waste my time reading most of the comments.

  • Good grief. I didnt delete your comment.

  • If you mean Khazarian. Yes I have.

  • Now we’re straight: Khazarian. The Khazars. Yes. I will click on your link and check it out. And I would never delete your comments katz. If you search my comment section, you will see that I even allow all the profanity against me. It doesn’t effect me. The only comments I delete is when it is from homosexuals. I delete the homosexuals commenting here 100% of the time. I hate homosexuals.

    In addition, I also hate anyone who lectures me on why I should not hate.

    Stay away from these two and we will be friends and you can even get mad at me anytime and I will be okay with you. Here, we talk like men and we fight like men, we punch each other and its all fine. And we then have a beer. (yes, and don’t lecture on why drinking beer is sin, its not)

    Now that you know the rules, go forth and God bless.

  • Ah, it’s so nice to read a grown-up here now and again (barring my friends and the chief).

  • Perpetuating lies and bearing false, Jack Chick-inspired witness

  • Perpetuating lies and bearing false, Jack Chick-inspired witness.

  • Neither Moe, Larry, or Curly wrote a single comment. It is because they were gone.

    Bye bye.

  • There is a theory that the anti-christ will have three centers of operation:
    1. Rome (government),
    2. Babylon (commerce), and
    3. Jerusalem (spiritual).

    God has His own plans.

  • “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”

    From the verse you shared, can you tell us what “but he who does the will of my Father”?

    What is this “does the will of My Father” mean? Does that mean we do nothing?

  • When Jesus departed and the church was established, how do you suppose they interpreted Scriptures? The Fathers were the beginning of the church, they interpreted scriptures and established the set of code on what to follow and what to avoid and how to practice the faith. Jesus said “I will build my church”. This is not only a promise to send us the Bible, but also an institution (The Church) which is the body of believers with adequate leadership and direction. So to understand how the church functioned we read the fathers. And by the way, what they taught and how the church operated in regards to Baptism, Eucharist, Confession … Sacraments.

  • racarrera

    Hello Phleb. When I mean the Fathers, I’m referring to the Church Fathers, both Ante-Nicene (before the First Ecumenical Council) and others. I’m not sure if you have ever had a chance to read them, but they are foundational in the development of Christian history.

    Here’s a link to read on them:

  • I am Walid Shoebat

  • racarrera

    My pleasure. When people come here in the spirit of asking and fellowship, people are happy to help.

  • Daniel Roach

    Babylon is Rome

  • The reason you ask is because you do not know much about Muslims and Islam. Mecca was bombed by the Ottoman Muslim and the black stone cracked when Sharif Hussein fought the Muslims and plus it was catapulted during Al-Hajjaj Ben Yusuf Al-Thaqafi and recently Iran threatened Saudi Arabia:

  • Ryan,

    A double meaning is probable since Rome was referred to as “Babylon” yet Mystery Babylon is clearly in Arabia. Notice there is a double Babylon “Babylon is fallen is fallen”. Why double “fallen” is possible it refers to Rome’s falling away but is not the ultimate fulfillment as you know.

    Glad that you are reading Keating’s book though. When it comes to Prophecy Catholics do divide and different views are permissible.

  • Sorry for my late reply Ryan, let me know how the progress goes. Glad to have read this, but due to all the mass comments I might have missed it. God be with you.

  • la0508,

    Really its simple, just Google “Shoebat” and a word like “Sunday Special”. The Sunday Specials are the type of stuff you would enjoy.

  • Rose,

    Muslims agree with you on all you wrote. What do you think about that?

  • “im so sorry Mr Shoebat that you are offended by the truth about catholicism”

    Me offended? Hardly. What gave you that idea?

    “you are still blind about catholicism…”

    I am? I didn’t know that I was blind. Thanks for letting me know rose that you are the one who sees. Tell me, what do you see ahead?

    “it’s not the people in the catholic church but the system that is evil..”

    The same things you can say about this “system” is the same things Jesus said about the “system” in His time. You do not suppose we BURN the system do you? I mean the whole thing just light it up in smokes.

    Just drowse it with gasoline and burn it. What do you think?

    “i know your wife is catholic and was instrumental in your coming to Christ but the coming days will galvanize you in the truth of this organization.”

    Nothing these days galvanizes me. I am beyond galvanization, Islamization, Protestantization, indoctrinations ….

    “God bless..Your book ‘God’s War on Terror’ is epic.”

    God bless you too sister Rose. I haven’t changed much since I became this “damned Catholic” you know.

  • This one deleted their own post. They can do that.

    See. You were wrong about me.

  • Jan Davis

    How can you be absolutely sure that your “scriptures” i.e. Koran/Hadith/Sunnah are not corrupted? Because your imams and Islamic scholars tell you so? OK, if they say so, then it must be right! And if they have been unchanged then all the more scary. Because Islam teaches intolerance, death to the unbeliever/apostate/gay/fornicator/adulterer, even death to those who draw a cartoon or insult Mohammad. There is no room for debate or disagreement, everyone must fall in line and be submissive. Women have no choice whether to wear the hajib or not wear it, of course you will say she has a choice and she does, but woe to the woman who goes outside without it. If her husband divorces her, he keeps the kids! Thats Sharia for you.
    In fact, ISIS have implemented all of Sharia to the letter, to its upmost degree but no one wants to live under it, even faithful muslims. Every muslim is elated to be free from ISIS and its faithful adherence to your religious beliefs by forcing the population to live under these strict rules. And Muslims at that!!!! What is the result? Unhappiness and fear. Are you really convinced that this is the answer to the worlds problems? Islam is the answer? You need to go away and think more deeply about this.