ISIS Declares That They Will Invade Jerusalem, The Vatican, And Spain, And Destroy the Christian Cross.

SHOEBAT EXCLUSIVE
By Walid Shoebat And Theodore Shoebat

ISIS has declared in a very recent video that their forces plan on invading Jerusalem, the Vatican, and Spain. The video begins with a presentation of ancient Rome, and the black flag of ISIS replacing a Roman statue, accentuating their aspiration to invade the city, and then these words come in front of the screen:

Its bombardments will never cease until the Cross is broken

Shoebat.com obtained the video and provided English subtitles:

Later in the video the Muslim narrator declares:

We will not enjoy life until all Muslim prisoners are released everywhere, Until we bring back Jerusalem and occupy Andalus [Spain], and occupy Rome by Allah’s will, by action, not just talk. The promise of the truth sayer [Muhammad], peace be upon him.

Notice they never say America, but Jerusalem, Spain, and Rome, three areas of the world that hold much significance in the history of Islamic wars. This becomes especially true when one observes this modern situation in light of the fact that the Muslims succeeded in invading all of Jerusalem, most of Spain, and tried to invade Rome several times. Moreover, take notice how after mentioning the three areas they desire to conquer, they say, “The promise of the truth sayer [Muhammad], peace be upon him.”

Muhammad promised the Muslims that they will conquer both Constantinople and Rome, the two heads of Christendom.

Protestants who hate Rome should be praising ISIS for this endeavor.

The desire to invade Rome is still throbbing like a beating heart; it is alive and remains vibrant like a torrent within the very soul of the Muslim world. Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the most influential Sunni scholar today, made the prediction in 2002 that the Muslims will soon rise and invade Rome, making references to the declaration of Muhammad himself:

He [Muhammad] answered: “The city of Hirqil [Emperor Heraclius, that is, Constantinople] will be conquered first” … Romiyya is the city called today Rome, the capital of Italy. The city of Hirquil was conquered by the young 23-year old Ottoman [sultan] Muhammad bin Morad, known in history as Mohammad the Conquerer, in 1453 [CE]. The other city, Romiyya, remains, and we hope and believe [that it too will be conquered]. This means that Islam will return to Europe as a conquerer and victor, after being expelled from its twice-once from the South, from Adalusia, and a second time from the East, when it knocked several times on the door of Athens.

In the year 1453, the raging Ottoman Empire, under Mehmet II, flooded the city of Constantinople, creating a flood of human gore and countless pools of warm thick blood. It was one of the saddest events in Christian history, and the cries of those slain still echo from the vault’s of mighty Heaven. But such an invasion of the heathen has not stopped; the savages have merely delayed their warpath for the purpose of deciet, and within their conspiring minds is the envisioning of a certain city under their subjugation. It is Rome. Rome, after Jerusalem, is the city that the Muslims have been bent on conquering since the founding of their religion.

In fact, after Mehmet II conquered Constantinople, this same sultan boasted that he would invade Rome and have his horse “eat from the high altar of St. Peter.” (Thomas F. Madden, The Concise History of the Crusades, ch. 9, p. 186)

Within the entire span of their existence, from Muhammad until now, the Muslims have attempted to conquer Rome seven times, and in each time their attempts were found to be in vain. In the earlier Islamic invasions of the ninth century, Pope Gregory IV protected Ostia, a suburb of Rome, from the Muslim attacks by fortifying it “with higher walls, and with gates and crenellations and trap-doors, and on top he arranged catapults with noble artfulness to fight off the enemy if necessary.” (Liber Pontificalis, 103: Gregory IV, 39, trans. Raymond Davis)

Pope Gregory Iv

Pope Gregory Iv

At one point they tried to invade Rome when it was under the pontificate of Sergius II. The Muslims reached the Church of St. Paul, only to be crushed by resilient Italian Catholics. When the Muslims were about to enter Montecassino, southeast of Rome, monks begged God for mercy with prayer and ashes on their foreheads. Right before the Muslims gained entry, a storm struck and the floodwaters flowing through the Garigliano River blocked the barbarians. The Muslims made a truce, Pope Sergius II accepted, and the enemy departed. (See the commentary of Raymond Davis on the Liber Pontificalis, 104: Sergius II, n. 92)

Pope Gregory II

Pope Gregory II

But out of all the battles the saints fought to defend Rome, the most sublime and epic of them was the Battle of Ostia in 849 AD. The Muslims sacked Rome, pillaged and plundered the Churches of St. Peter and St. Paul. When they entered the tomb of Peter they stripped away a silver altar, and overran Saint Peter’s church in the name of Allah and for their hatred of the Gospel.

Pope Leo IV arose as the defender of the city. When he first became pontificate he consecrated entire days to prayer and religious processions to render hope unto the people and to kindle the fire of Christian zeal after it had been extinguished by the Islamic barbarians. He had the city’s walls repaired; fifteen towers were built or renewed, and he iron chain was drawn across the Tiber river to hinder any enemy naval ships from sailing into Italy.

Pope Leo IV

Pope Leo IV

Before the Muslims returned to Rome Leo made a prayer that transcended time and space, that the God who had protected St. Peter and St. Paul on the confounding waves of the sea would fortify the hands of his warriors who were about to fight the enemies of Christ. Before the battle, Leo IV gazed up to Heaven, and with with soul rooted into eternity, his flaming heart throbbing with the utmost of zeal, his mind interconnected to the most learned of expositions, he proclaimed:

O God, who didst confer on thy apostle Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven and didst grant him the pontificate of binding and loosing, grant that by the help of his intercession we may be delivered from the bonds of our sins; and cause that this city which we have newly founded with thy assistance may ever remain safe from thy wrath and have new and manifold triumphs over the enemy on whose account it has been constructed; through [our Lord Jesus Christ]. (Liber Pontificalis, 105: Leo IV, 73, trans. Raymond Davis)

This prayer offends many, I know. But this is what the ancient Christians believed in, and this is how they prayed (and for those who say that Leo IV is not a Christian or a saint, and that the Catholic Church is a false church, please provide one thing: evidence and documentation for the true Christians in the time of Leo IV).

Moments before the heat of valor and arms commenced, the Muslims declared their savage prayer to their false god, and advanced for a naval attack. The Christians made ready their galleys of war, and headed toward the Muslim ships. Then all of a sudden, as the unpredictable spark of destiny manifested its majestic flame, a powerful wind came upon the seas, and the roaring waves collided right into the Muslim ships. The enemy was dashed to pieces on the sharp and soulless rocks, and those who survived shipwreck received no quarter from the pursuing Italian Christians.

The Christians take the victory in the Battle of Ostia

The Christians take the victory in the Battle of Ostia

The Islamic world does not forget such defeats, and the hope of victory, to take what they almost conquered, has been forever in their infernal minds. Yunis Al Astal, a popular cleric for Hamas and a scholar on Islamic law, once stated in a speech:

Very soon, Allah willing, Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was, as was prophesied by our prophet Muhammad. Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine, in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam – this capital of theirs will be an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread through Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, and even Eastern Europe.

Here is the video if you wish to watch the actual speech:

Al Astal believes that the conquest of Rome will be not just a Islamic advancement, but a strategic point from which the Muslim warriors will expand into the rest of Europe and eventually into the Americas.

Another example is Egyptian cleric Salem Abu Al-Futouh, who said in 2011:

The Prophet Muhammad told us that Islam would spread. He told us about the Islamic conquest of Constantinople – Turkey of today – and indeed, it was conquered. He also told us about the conquest of Rome, which is Italy. People find this strange. “How can we conquer Italy?” they say. “We are too weak.” You should consider the number of Muslims in that great Christian center – another person converts to Islam every day. Check on the Internet how many people want to convert to Islam in the very heart of that papal center of Christianity, on their own turf.

Kamil Zarouq, a sheikh in Tunisia, also made the emphatic announcement that the Muslims will conquer Rome:

The prophet Muhammad said: “Rome shall be conquered.” Rome will be conquered in our days. This is the age of the Muslims.

This belief in the future conquest of Rome is not some dream or superficial idea Muslims say in passing, but a universal goal that all Muslims, both layman and scholar, aspire to fulfill. Rome is not just another place the Muslims want to take over (they want to rule the whole world), but a specific region that was desired by the founder of Islam himself, Muhammad. This cannot go ignored. There were three cities Muhammad wanted under Islamic rule: Jerusalem, Rome, and Constantinople. Why? Because these are the three heads of Christendom.

It was from Jerusalem where the Church received, in the words of Pope Sylvester II, “the oracles of the prophets, the manifestations of the patriarchs”. It is in Jerusalem where “the clear lights of the world, the apostles, made their appearance; here it [the world] discovered the faith of Christ” (The Letters of Gerbert, Letter 36, trans. Harriet Pratt Lattin).

jerusalem

It is Constantinople that was built by Constantine, to be a city “without any temple of image of the demons.” (City of God, 5.25). And so with such a founding, and such a spiritual foundation, the devil would have his eyes to take it for his dominion.

And why would the devil seek the destruction of Rome? Such a metropolis has been concluded by numerous theologians to be the Great Whore of Babylon, the city of Antichrist. Why would Satan bother with such a place, why would his followers be so filled with vitriol against Rome if it truly was the mother of all false religions, including their own?

Satan hates Rome because it is a city whose church is beloved by God and destined to be saints. I do not say this from my own authority, but from the blessed Apostle Paul, who wrote these words to the Church of Rome:

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:7)

When reading these words, we must keep in mind that St. Paul is writing to the Church of Rome, that is, the Roman Catholic Church. For those who affirm that I am wrong, I ask you kindly, if Romans is not being written to the Roman Catholic Church, then which church is it being written to? And where today can I find this church?

You cannot find it, and you never will, no matter how hard you try. But if you would like to take up the challenge, then I would gladly see your findings. In antiquity, the primacy of the Roman Church was established as the head of the churches. This was not an invention of Constantine. Tertullian, one of the oldest and most ancient authorities of Christianity, declared the primacy of the Roman Church. I will let his words speak for themselves:

Since, moreover, you are close upon Italy, you have Rome, from which there comes even into our own hands the authority (of apostles themselves). How happy is its church, on which apostles poured forth all their doctrine along with their blood! where Peter endures a passion like his Lord’s! where Paul wins his crown in a death like John’s! where the Apostle John was first plunged, unhurt, into boiling oil, and thence remitted to his island-exile! See what she has learned, what taught, what fellowship has had even (our) churches in Africa! One Lord God does she acknowledge, the Creator of the universe, and Christ Jesus (born) of the Virgin Mary, the Son of God the Creator; and the Resurrection of the flesh; the law and the prophets she unites in one volume with the writings of evangelists and apostles, from which she drinks her faith. This she seals with the water (of baptism), arrays with the Holy Ghost, feeds with the Eucharist, cheers with martyrdom, and against such a discipline thus (maintained) she admits no gainsayer. This is the discipline which I no longer say foretold that heresies should come, but from which they proceeded. However, they were not from her, because they were opposed to her.(Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, ch. xxxvi, trans. Rev. Peter Holmes)

There are a number of points that are beneficial for our current discourse. Notice how Tertullian writes that it was the Roman Church that united the “law and the prophets” “in one volume with the writings of evangelists and apostles”, meaning that it was the Roman Church that put together the New and the Old Testaments in one compilation. Such an advancing action would, no doubt, provoke the devil to hate it, and hence, use the Muslims to destroy it. Since St. Paul wrote a letter to the Church of Rome, that means it was founded by God. Why, then, would God desire the Church of Rome to be destroyed by Muslims? Only the devil would desire such a thing.

The significance of the Roman Church in regards to the Christian Faith was first mentioned, not by any Church Father, but by Saint Paul. In his letter to the Romans he wrote:

First , I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. (Romans 1:8)

Take notice to whom St. Paul is writing this: the Roman Christians of the Roman Church. Thus when he says “I thank God through Jesus Christ for you all,” by “you” he means the Roman Christians, so he therefore is writing to a specific group and not to a general one. Thus, when he writes “your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world”, he is speaking of the faith as taught through the Roman Church, into which the Apostles “poured forth all their doctrine”, as Tertullian says, and the faith of which was “spoken of throughout the whole world”.

It is for this reason why St. Paul expresses such immense gratitude to the Roman Church with these words: “I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all” (Romans 1:8).

BNMsItal81Fol18RomeWidowed

Also, one cannot ignore the fact that no where in the epistles of St. Paul do we find the faith of a particular church praised as being “spoken of throughout the whole world”. It is only to the Roman Church that St. Paul gives this very significant description.

When the last Islamic confederacy configures itself, led by Turkey’s revived Ottoman Empire and its leader, the Antichrist, the Muslims will invade Rome, but just like their predecessors, they will fail. They will not succeed because Paul said, “To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints”. There is a divine plan for Rome, and this great destiny will prevent the Muslims, as it always has, from conquering the city.

The Italians are prophesied by God to be one of the enemies of the Antichrist. The prophet Daniel foretold:

For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. (Daniel 11:30)

Chittim is located in Cyprus, and also encompasses the rest of Greece and the whole of Italy. For Josephus, in his own words, describes Chittim as

Cyprus: and from that it is that all islands, and the greatest part of the seacoasts, are named Cethim by the Hebrews (Antiquities, 1.6.1, trans. William Whiston)

From this we know that Josephus saw Chittim with a twofold significance, in that while it is Cyprus it comprises also mainland Greece and Italy, as we learn from Rawlinson (The Origin of Nations, part 2, ch. 2, pp. 185-186). Moreover, in far antiquity, as we learn from the ancient historian Justin, Italy was called Greater Greece, or Magna Graecia (Justin, 20.2). Therefore, Italy, through an ancient lens, can be viewed as a part of Greece, and therefore constitutes as Chittim.

Italian and Spanish ships fight the Turks in the Battle of Lepanto

Italian and Spanish ships fight the Turks in the Battle of Lepanto

There is significance in the Bible’s mentioning of Chittim as an enemy of the Antichrist. God says that He “will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations” (Ezekiel 28:7), and “seven shepherds, and eight principal men” (Micah 5:5) against the Antichrist. While God makes known that He will raise countries against the Antichrist, the only specific countries He mentions are those comprising Chittim, that is, Cyprus, Greece, and Italy. This is not to say that these will be the only countries (America will definitely be involved), but that these are the only ones mentioned specifically.

We also believe that Spain will be involved in warring against the Antichrist; my father, Walid Shoebat, has always interpreted Chittim to consisting of Spain.

Therefore, the Christians of Italy who will one day fight against the revived Islamic Ottoman Empire, will be those who are, in the words of St. Paul, “called to be saints”.

In the greatest naval battle of Christendom, the Battle of Lepanto, the Spaniards and the Italians allied together in what was called a holy alliance, and fought and crushed the Ottoman galleys. The Italian poet Giovanni Baptista Arucci wrote of this alliance between Italy and Spain to war against the Turks (who he refers to as the Thracians):

You have only to make the peoples of Italy and Spain strike a holy alliance. Let this be your labor, daughter: to join kings together, mind with mind, and spirit with spirit. In this way let Rome unite with Spain and the rich Republic of Venice against the Thracian [Turkish] Tyrant. (Giovanni Baptista Arucci, The Victory at Naupactus, 60-64, ed. & trans. Elizabeth R. Wright, Sarah Spence, and Andrew Lemons, The Battle of Lepanto, I Tatti Renaissance Library)

After Lepanto, the Church of Rome was esteemed as the glorious victor, destined by God to have victory over the Muslims. An anonymous poet, after the battle, wrote a poem in praise of Rome called One hundred verses: to the City, in which he exclaimed:

Glorious Rome, those wretched men [the Muslims] you now see passing by with their hands bound behind their backs, they are the enemies of your name. (One hundred verses: to the City, 16-18, ibid, brackets mine)

In the future the great crescent of the Ottoman empire will ascend from the rubble of its past defeats, ruling all of the nations of Islam, and it will charge against that city which Muhammad called to conquer: Rome. The fiery zeal of Christian passion will spark within the souls of the Romans, the spirit of Crusade will revive itself, and they, and the whole of Italy, will fight off the Muslim invaders. The Italians will also ally with Spain and Russia, as well as the United States and the other mighty nations called by God to destroy the Islamic empire out of existence.

What many do not understand is that the past battles between Catholics and Muslims are not isolated incidences in forgotten history, but parts of an entire war, that stops and resumes, in a continually eternal and cosmic struggle, between those who believe in the Trinity and those who uphold unitarianism. The war has never ended, and has only taken a temporary truce.

The Holy Cross will obliterate the idol of the Crescent, and destined by the hands of the Almighty, in that last and greatest battle of earth’s destiny, the enemies will be destroyed by those who are “beloved of God, called to be saints” (Romans 1:7).

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  • 1Bobby8

    And I say to thee: “That thou are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”~ Matthew16:18
    God will protect The Holy Roman Catholic Church, the only True Church.

  • can of green beans

    These Rugheads need to eat a BBQ’d pork sandwich and shut the heck up.

  • Lidia

    Religion=FAITH AND WORSHIP! Faith=Strong belief in God and the Bible!
    Worship=Glorify God.

  • Lidia

    Which one of God’s creatures are you talking about?

  • gary forsythe

    Would like to mention a website called Jewishvoice they have some good stuff on there

    Where i first saw His Royal Exc. Mr Walid Shoebat for the first time and hooked me.

  • AnthonyM

    Since the time of Christ, actually. From Catholic Answers there is an explanation: ‘The earliest document we have in which “Catholic” is used to label the Church is a letter from Ignatius of Antioch, who wrote around A.D. 107, while being taken to Rome for execution. For all we know, the term was used well before that time—which is to say, in the time of the apostles.’ In his letter he did not propose or define the word Catholic, as his audience understood it’s meaning. Catholics that left the Church should not be afraid to return. Discuss it with your local priest.

    Peter is considered the first Pope of the Catholic Church. Here is a list of Popes during the years you omitted:
    St. Peter (32-67) – died in Rome
    St. Linus (67-76)
    St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
    St. Clement I (88-97)
    St. Evaristus (97-105)
    St. Alexander I (105-115)
    St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
    St. Telesphorus (125-136)
    St. Hyginus (136-140)
    St. Pius I (140-155)
    St. Anicetus (155-166)
    St. Soter (166-175)
    St. Eleutherius (175-189)
    St. Victor I (189-199)
    St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
    St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus, antipope (217-236)
    St. Urban I (222-30)
    St. Pontain (230-35)
    St. Anterus (235-36)
    St. Fabian (236-50)
    St. Cornelius (251-53) Opposed by Novatian, antipope (251)
    St. Lucius I (253-54)
    St. Stephen I (254-257)
    St. Sixtus II (257-258)
    St. Dionysius (260-268)
    St. Felix I (269-274)
    St. Eutychian (275-283)
    St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
    St. Marcellinus (296-304)
    St. Marcellus I (308-309)
    St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
    St. Miltiades (311-14)
    St. Sylvester I (314-35)
    St. Marcus (336)
    St. Julius I (337-52)
    Liberius (352-66) Opposed by Felix II, antipope (355-365)
    St. Damasus I (366-84) Opposed by Ursicinus, antipope (366-367)
    St. Siricius (384-99)
    St. Anastasius I (399-401)
    St. Innocent I (401-17)

    God Bless.

    • Woody

      Gee, he certainly missed a lot of history, didn’t he? Why does that not surprised me with all this “make believe” guys.
      Thanks for the list, I will “re-copy” it (I may have it somewhere else) My understanding is that all of these died a Martyr’s death (hence–the Church of Jesus Christ was built on the blood of Martyrs)

  • Steve Smith

    Linda where did you get all the JIBBERISH about pebbles and boulders THIS IS NOT IN THE ORIGANAL GREEK.

    Καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἴπεν αὐτῷ, Μακάριος εἴ, Σίμων Βαριωνᾶ, ὅτι σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα οὐκ ἀπεκάλυψέν σοι, ἀλλ’ ὁ πατήρ μου ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς.

    Κἀγὼ δέ σοι λέγω, ὅτι σὺ εἴ Πέτρος, καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, καὶ πύλαι ᾍδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς.

    Christ is speaking IN terms of a builder or mason, not as pebbels. The Church is built on.Christ and ALL the Apostles.
    Christ is speaking about St Peters earlier statement that Jesus is the Christ and son of the living God, this is what the Church is built on. Christ is talking about building stones and foundations and the word RECONSTRUCT is NOT THERE.

    “A man built his house upon “a pebble” petra Matt. 7:24
    .
    Jesus’ tomb was hewn out of “a pebble” petra Mark 15:46.

    The house could not be shaken because it was built on “a pebble” petra Luke 6:48
    .
    The “pebble” petra that followed them was Christ I Cor. 10:4.

    (people) hid in the caves and “pebbles” petras of the mountains… Rev. 6:15.

    • Woody

      Thank you, Steve for correcting Linda. This is due to both “prejudice”(first) and being uneducated (second), i.e., like others she does not know enough that she needs to go back to the original language … but she won’t because she is comforted in her error (maintains her prejudice without her having to admit it)

      • Steve Smith

        CHRIST. made a promise that death and Satan will never overcome HIS Church . Islam is the child of Satan, IT NEVER brings life to Gods creation only DEATH and destruction. Satan hates life because he could not create it.

        • Woody

          Sooooooooooo TRUEEEEEEEEEE!

  • worldwide trumpet

    u r absolutely correct! Bible prophecy shows soon all false religions, which r at the root of all mankind evils, will be done away with in the same manner ancient Babylon fell to the Medes and Persians under Cyrus in 539 b.c.e. Thats why a call is bein trumpeted worldwide to get out of her(Babylon the Great, the harlot) before its going to be too late! Revelation chap.18

    • Woody

      I think you missed Walid’s point–Turkey is the “great harlot” not Babylon.. Thank you Walid….

  • shoebat

    For all you arguing about Peter and Mary. For all you ho always find an opportunity to do this and disregard the topic at hand. I will be deleting your comments. Please discuss the matter at hand.

  • Lidia

    So is Jesus God’s creature too? If you say no because he is the Creator in the flesh, then the Creator came from a creature’s womb. I would consider Mary a step above all creatures, not a creator though of course. She is like royalty because she gave birth to a King who is above all Kings and angels. I see her as the Queen of Heaven. Heaven and Earth is God’s Kingdom!!! A Kingdom!
    If she is not important, according to you, she is like the rest of us. Why did she come down from heaven to talk to children in Portugal, Mexico, France, Croatia and other places?

    • Woody

      Great point and also in Egypt since 1968 witnessed by hundreds of thousand of people.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Afraid to tell you, but you are wrong. One man in all of the New Covenant received a name change: Simon. You should know the ramifications of God changing a persons name. Peter is the Rock. Jesus prayed for ONLY Peter’s faith to fail not. No one else. Peter received the Keys to the Kingdom. That makes him the Royal Steward, the Father over the house. He has all the authority of the King. Read Isaiah 22:22 to discover how the Bible defines what the keys are so you don’t have to make up a false interpretation for yourself.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Catholicism has Jesus as the head in deciding doctrine, not Paul. Paul has been sadly misinterpreted by many protestants, as Peter himself declares in his epistle. Paul said to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. He stated that he hoped that he himself was not disqualified. Do yourself a favor and watch Ted’s debate with Chris Pinto where Ted shreds this false theory (that the Catholic church didn’t form till the 4th century) to pieces. Even IF they weren’t formed till the 4th century, your church didn’t start until after the 16th century! Your own standard makes your church look a rookie. Historical documents from the first 300 years of the Church refute your notion. All their beliefs are still upheld and believed by Catholic and Orthodox to this day.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Susan, do you pick and choose what part of the Bible you read? So many protestants misinterpret the commandment to mean that ALL graven images are forbidden, when the point being made is not to have ANYTHING in your life that is higher than God, and to have no other God but him. I would like to ask you if you believe God would give a direct command to His people that causes them to break a commandment.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Why did Paul feel he might be disqualified? Why did he say to work out your salvation with fear and trembling? You need to read the accounts of judgment day, what Jesus states. Jesus does not ask if you had a personal relationship with him. Those who produced fruit by adhering to His law of love and charity go to heaven. Those who believed and had faith with no works are cut off the vine and thrown into the fire.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Is saying the Our Father more than once repetitive prayer?
    What about Jesus’ prayer in the Garden? He said the same prayer, 3 different times, for an hour each time.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Is the Ark of the Covenant a graven image?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Tell me where in the Bible we are told to pray the sinners prayer. Chapter and verse please. Why does Luke reveal Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant? Why does Psalm 132:8 state that the Ark rises and goes to its resting place, the same place that the LORD goes to rest.Why does Rev 11:19 state that John saw the Ark of His covenant in the temple in heaven? Why after stating that he saw the ark, he states he saw a ‘woman’?

  • Woody

    More BS (just another of the 40,000 + heresies); The Catholic Church was originally called the “People of the Way…” but both Jesus and St Paul (hold fast to what I teach you) and to Timothy Paul said…”listen to THE CHURCH…” NOT listen to SCRIPTURE…taught that soon many errors (heresies) would creep in to try and confuse people. It is documented (extant) to this very day, that Ignatius of Antioch gave the name “Catholic” to Jesus Church (Greek meaning “universal”) in 107 AD on his way to his executioners (after being asked many times where the true Church of Jesus is today…[he said to look to Rome]
    And he should be sorry for spreading such nonsense…[history (see Eusebius, et al and a host of other historians who have documented Chrisitan history

  • Woody

    More nonsense being spread by someone who has never met the truth. If she wanted to know the truth (which she does not), she would only have to get a Catholic Catechism from the Library..but her interest is in joining with the Father of all Lies, Satan. A laugh when she points to the KJV etc.,s when Luther took our 7 books of the Bible…according to his “truths.” then says it is “inerrant.” To prove this, one needs only to go the Bible Jesus quoted from most often “The Septuagint” which has the same OT books the Catholic Bible has. Are we to believe that Jesus would quote from a Bible He knew to be “false.” When i last looked-Jesus is God and He does not make mistakes.The correct teaching of the Catholic Church is that “only God may be worshiped…” once again she has eyes but cannot see; ears but does not hear. Philosophically, the Church even has it right:

    Latvia – “Worship belonging ONLY to God

    Hyperdulia – the highest degree of “respect” (not worship) shown to the Blessed Virgin Mary {after all-had he said “No” (she had like us a free will) we would all be in trouble [thank you Mom]

    Dulia – respect shown for people who “ran the race” in accord with St Paul’s teaching

    ————-

    Let’s look at a secular site’s truth (not Susan who is uneducated)

    Latria vs. Dulia and Hyperdulia[edit]

    Latria is sacrificial in character, and may be offered ONLY to God. Catholic and Orthodox Christians offer OTHER degrees of reverence to the Blessed Virgin Mary and to the Saints; these NON-SACRI-FICIAL types of reverence are called hyperdulia and dulia, respectively. In English, dulia is also called VENERATION.[4] Hyperdulia is essentially a heightened degree of dulia provided only to the Blessed Virgin.[5]
    [Susan also need to WALK to her DICTIONARY which will help educate her and look up two words: ADORATION versus VENERATION [she will be unhappy to find that words do have meanings and her definitions do not agree with her post above.

    This distinction, written about as early as Augustine of Hippo and St Jerome, was detailed more explicitly by Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologiae, A.D. 1270: “Reverence is due to God on account of His Excellence, which is communicated to certain creatures not in equal measure, but according to a measure of proportion; and so the reverence which we pay to God, and which belongs to LATRIA, differs from the reverence which we pay to certain excellent creatures; this belongs to DULIA, and we shall speak of it further on (103)”;[6] in this next article St. Thomas Aquinas writes: “Wherefore DULIA which pays due service to a human lord, is a DISTINCT virtue from LATRIA, which pays due service to the Lordship of God. It is, moreover, a species of observance, because by observance we honor all those who excel in dignity, while dulia properly speaking is the reverence of servants for their master, dulia being the Greek for servitude”.

    Another stupid statement…”we worship Mary in the Rosary…” She just exposes her ignorance, i.e., the Rosary was given by Our Lady herself and IS THE GOSPEL OF HER SON (in prayer form) Meditations include: Jesus Agony in the Garden, His Scourging at the Pillar, His Crowning with Thorns, His Carrying of His Cross, His Crucifixion on the Cross (plus many more)
    which only goes to show she has never read the Bible (the Gospel)
    If I went to Susan’s house right now I can guarantee she has “idols” all over her house (pictures of her loved ones), and she would think I am the stupid one if I asked her “why do you worship all these idols of your family? Fortunately it is the other way around. {a statue is merely a 3 dimensional view of “a picture.” [Only she needs to read Walid’s excellent “research” he and his bro did on the Church at the time of Jesus, and His research confirms that…all of the early Churches had “statues, icons (like Caldeans, etc), incense, etc and this is no surprised to Catholics since we have not changed in the over 2000 years since He founded us.
    Lastly, she uses her own “faulty interpretations” of Scripture which is the very reason she belongs to the 40,000 heretical churches both Jesus and Paul warned about (hold fast to the traditions I teach you) Protestants don’t even agree with other protestants on Scripture or they would never had melted down. Strange also that the largest Christian Church is the Catholic Church – 1.2 billion and their teachings are the same today 9dogma-wise) as when Jesus taught
    them.
    Another error–Jesus Church is NOT a Denomination–He needed no help from us stupidos to Found His Church [thank you Jesus]
    God Bless

  • Woody

    Why do we argue with so many ignorant (in the kind way-one with no knowledge) persons on here.
    Talk about research –she ignores history itself–look at the intelligent person’s post above who listed all the Popes since Peter–pretending that they never lived even though all of their lives are firmly documented in the history records. Look now this one says 600 years? And another Prot says 400 years (above) typically making up stuff–again no wonder they have 40,000 versions of what my Master, Jesus taught; as Jesus is ONE His Truth is ONE.

  • Woody

    I don’t think Jesus would agree with you; like others on this site you may be entitle to your own “truth” but not your own facts. As for me I will stick with Jesus, “I will be with you until the End of Days.” Thank you for sticking with us, Jesus.

  • shoebat

    “If anyone adds to these things” … how many times have I heard people say “the Lord told me” … how many times have I heard people in the church “prophecey”… they too must be adding to Revelations?

  • Woody

    Another uneducated; Jesus Founded One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church; now go to your dictionary–to be a “branch” of something there has to be “more than One…” He founded One (like He said or you consider Him a Liar) He along with St Paul prophesized many heresies would come along shortly and they did beginning with Simon Magus and the many hundreds of “first protestant” who rejected Jesus’s Words in John VI …they walked away never to follow Him again…versus the stamina of the first Bishops (the Apostles) as always led by St Peter (“to who shall we go”)
    Good point on the creeds all of which “affirm” One Holy “Catholic” Church; I had to smirk a few years back when I was at a Protestant ceremony and was both surprised and “dumbfounded” to even hear the Creed spoken until I realized they had “sheepishly” changed the word “Catholic” to “Christian.”
    Good point on the “works of grace…” all Christians need to stand together especially at election times. God Bless

  • Woody

    Another one who has never read what is in the Rosary; the Rosary given us to Our Lady Herself is not holy, then the “Gospel” itself is not holy (since it is the Gospel which makes up the Rosary)
    You also missed Walid’s excellent point that it is the Rosary which saved Western Civilization (see the Battle of Lepanto)
    Yah, and I see Julie’s excellent point below me; Terre is now so far gone as “correcting Jesus” Who is God. Why would Jesus say the same prayer 3 times if He forbade it—hmmm, more misinterpretations; I am surprised he does not go off and found his own church over this?

  • Woody

    more lies and ignorance. A Protestant Minister was on TV last week and point blank asked the question, “How do you know for sure Jesus rose into Heaven”
    His answer, “Because no on ever look for this Body or tomb…”
    Notice that he did not mention (out of ignorance and prejudice)
    that no one ever looks for Mary’s tomb either or ever has…unlike Jesus Who arose under His own Power, Mary was “assumed” into Heaven since she is but a creature.

  • shoebat

    Thats fine, but now you need to do it out of here. No more comments from you on this site. And remember what you said “whatever you do to me I will still love you”. Keep on lovin.

  • Woody

    Loving Mary does not mean (as Prots) contend that one does not got through Jesus; just another goof on Prot’s part.
    I would much better be saying to Jesus “i loved your Mom all my life..” rather than a Prot saying, “Gee. Jesus i know I denigrated Mary all my life but could you let me into Heaven anyway.”
    Jesus died in Mary’s skin and in Mary’s blood…now that is science.

  • shoebat

    And what does God want you to do at this moment when you read this message? Quickly, type it up. Always would love to hear from someone who has His direct number.

    • Woody

      Thru Adam from Eve I 8 1 2

  • shoebat

    Would you like to debate the nonsense you just said with someone who knows a little history?

  • Woody

    You missed again; we talk to dead people since we follow our Master who also talked to dead people:

    The Transfiguration
    …2And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”…

    Who is denying the Blessed Trinity, certainly not Catholics -they once had a split with our Eastern brethern over how to interpret the dogma of Faith

  • Woody

    The only thing false is you, Susan since you have replaced God with your own god–mini-god, full of errors and self aggrandizing putting her putty-like mind up against the most brillaint people in Church history; unlike Aquinas, Augustine, Aristotle, Iranaeus, you will be forgotten 1 minutes after your dead.
    To start with you begin with a heresy and error, “…the Bible alone.” there is much truth outside the Bible which was written by Catholics of course and approved at the Councils of the Catholic Church until finally the NT was completed on April 8th 1592
    As a Prot you believe “all miracles ceased at the time of the Apostles despite hundreds of incidences throughout history. Why would the Rosary be in the Bible since it was not given to St Dominic back in the 1200s or whenever he lived?

    If you don’t think Mary is important you miss her blood and skin being a part of Jesus and it went on the Cross with Him.
    Jesus changed His entire mission for her with 4 words from her
    “They have no wine.” (my time is not yet come, but like a good Son
    he started His public life early and performed a miracle.

  • Woody

    What article is this? Don’t see it named?

  • Woody

    Right and the devil doesn’t want anyone moving toward Jesus Church…but he sure does know what Church Jesus founded; has anyone noticed that every time He wants to disgrace Jesus Body and Blood he steals a Host from the Catholic Church (not accident–he knows which is the True Church of Jesus)to perform one of his “black masses.” (See Harvard; Oklahoma, etc)

  • Susan

    Also, you bash the KJV and such but dont recommend what you deem as an accurate translation, so what do you suggest??

    • Woody

      Duoay Rheims

  • Davida Singer

    Susan do you know why the Pope wash feet? Do you anyone else on earth are still doing that or keeping that tradition? Do you know some are keeping the language Jesus spoke? Look at my profile, do you know where and when Mary appeared?
    What do you do if you were first Christians, chased and killed, didn’t have bible? They are holding on the tradition, not like you unfaithful. you fight for bible when you have no idea The First Christians paid their blood to keep Christianity for you to enjoy fighting on bible today. Shame.

  • Davida Singer

    Douhay-Rheims is recommended. Others have been changed, altered, mislead people. Be careful. “Impremature” is the word should be found to confirm the approval of Bishops.

  • Humberto Barron

    I have an answer to Theodore Shoebat: The letter to the Romans in the first century is NOT to the Catholic church–since the Catholic church is a “derivative” after schisms and reformations throughout the centuries. Thus, the Roman catholic church as we know it, did not exist in the first century. As for his question of “where today can he find this church?” ..it is now in Milano, Italy. Here is the website: http://www.ccmilano.net/it

  • Julie LaBrecque

    John 20:21-23 “Then Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be unto you: as my father sent me, even so send I you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost” Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” 2 Cor 2:9-10 ” For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things, To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also; for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST.” 2 Cor 5:18 “And all thing are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given TO US THE MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION.”

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Psalm 132:8, Psalm 45:9 17, Rev 11:19, Rev 12. If you would study the Davidic Kingdom. which is the Kingdom that God re-established through Jesus, you would know the role of the Mother of the King. After her son is enthroned, a seat is brought in for her and she intercedes for the Kings subjects. The Royal Steward of the Kingdom, had the Keys to the Kingdom and was second in authority only to the King, and had the power to bind and to loose. Peter was the first ‘royal steward’ over the house.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Sorry, someone lied to you,because Moses died. Deuteronomy 34:5-8

    • melfarmer

      So did Lazarus…but we all know what Jesus did for him, don’t we? Nothing is impossible with God.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You sound like a Jehovah Witness, for they to declare it a ‘stake’ that Jesus died on. Why is Jesus called the TREE of Life? Why was it prophesied that He would hang on a tree?Trees branch out horizontally.

    • Steve Smith

      Julie look how this nut wrote Stavros it is NOT STAUROS.
      Who did the crucifixion? Rome! we all know what it looked like, just look at the Russian cross.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        If it wasn’t a ‘cross’, then why is Satan hell-bent on destroying the cross? Just a bunch of nut jobs trying to deny that He died on a cross with vertical and horizontal beams. The blood on the doorposts that they applied in the first Passover formed a cross.

        • Steve Smith

          And get this Julie, they say I do not know Greek . that they looked it up in Strong’s . Problem is that you must know the structure of the sentence, and the accent marks to know the meaning to apply to the word.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            How true. Never mind you know and speak Greek! And never mind the idioms of the people 2,000 yrs ago which cause the ‘modern’ western Christian reading the Bible on his ‘own’ to make fallacious interpretations. The Jehovah Witnesses are famous for denying the cross, it was a mere ‘torture stake’ without the horizontal piece. They might as well deny the 4 ‘corners’ of the altar. They celebrate the day He died, but not the day He resurrected. I have never seen in any of their ‘junk’ they leave, a depiction of Jesus will blood or wounds. They might as well join Islam. This keeps in their ‘interpretation’ that Jesus was Michael the Archangel, and is NOT God. If Michael was on earth for 33 years, who was the defender in his absence?

          • Steve Smith

            There is a reason that Russia refuses to register jw churches.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I didn’t know that. Interesting. I like it!

          • melfarmer

            So, once again…not a JW..but do you honestly believe that our Lords wounds were not healed when He sat down to the right of the Father? I guess I just don’t get why everyone is arguing over crosses, wounds, birthdays of Jesus Christ, when His Resurrection after Death is what we should be focusing on. That through Him, we all have Salvation when we believe this.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            The demons believe – and tremble. Why are you arguing about whether or not his wounds were healed when he sat down? You’re obviously trying to make it a point with it – just make your point.

        • melfarmer

          I’m not a JW…but, I feel I must ask…why the fighting about the “Cross”? Is that really where the focus of Jesus should be? Seems kinda trivial to me. Who cares who’s right or wrong about what He was hung on…the point IS…He died, took on the sin of mankind and was resurrected. Isn’t that the REAL point?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    By what proof can you provide that the ‘religion’ you are spouting isn’t made from man? If you are interpreting scripture and making doctrine, you as a man have made your own religion.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Sorry, Jesus covenanted the Kingdom to his Apostles. They received the 4th kingdom, the Iron kingdom, which was Rome And all dominions shall serve and obey them, Daniel 7:26-27

    • melfarmer

      Funny, sounds like the Anti-christ you just commented about….”All dominions shall serve and obey them.” Hate to tell you this, but I will not serve and obey any one religion…I shall serve and obey God, and God only. Do you honestly think that unless one is a Catholic, that they will not be saved? That is really kinda shortsighted on your part, being as that I did not grow up in a church atmosphere, was not talked to about who/what God is, but even as a small child, I knew He existed and who Jesus truly was. I didn’t need some man to tell me all that either…so, how do you figure a young child knew that information..I’ll tell you, it’s called the Holy Ghost…who guides you into all truth and knowlwdge. Yes, sometimes He can use men to help guide you, but you best make sure that what that “Man” is guiding you towards lines up with Scripture. And you really need to quit acting like Roman Catholic Church following people are the only ones who are saved, because you are DEAD wrong. It’s all bodies of believers in Jesus Christ and who and what He did for all sinners. We believers in Jesus Christ are His Church. Jesus wasn’t talking about a building when He said that to Peter..He was saying that to him because Peter knew who Jesus was, God in the Flesh. Do you really think Jesus has such high esteem over a building? If He did, He would have saved the Jewish Temple. But we all know what happened to that building. The only building Jesus cares about is the building of the body of believers in Him.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You are full of hot air. I suppose you think you just happen to be one of the 144,000. How arrogant. All souls live on. What do you consider the Lake of Fire to be?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The portion of the cross that Jesus carried was the horizontal beam, which the Romans then had lifted up onto a tree that had had the limbs and branches stripped off. Jesus is the tree of life, whose fruit, if eaten, will bring eternal life. Read Genesis. Adam and Eve ate fruit from the wrong tree, God banished them from the Garden of Eden, ‘lest they eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.” Sounds eerily similar to what Jesus said. Eat of Him and live forever.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Why do your supposed ‘translations’ add the word “a” God to John 1? You believe that Michael the Archangel became Jesus. Hogwash. Michael is still an Archangel, and Jesus is still, and is eternally, the God-man. You are an antichrist.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Sounds like you are a Jehovah Witness.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    How much more are you going to twist scripture? When John asked, the angel told him, that woman that you saw IS A CITY. And where was John taken to see this ‘woman’? To the Desert. Funny coincidence, Mecca just happens to be a city with a great idol, and is in a desert. Your belief about Jesus is similar to what Muslims believe. You deny that He is God.

    • melfarmer

      Wow…we’re did you read his comment to state that he denies God?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Why don’t you read Hebrews 1:5 and put the death knell on your cult’s teaching that Jesus was Michael the Archangel, or has your translation butchered it too? “For to which of the ANGELS did God ever say: ‘You are my son, this day I have begotten you'”? “And all the angels of God worship Him.” Did you catch that? Michael is not worshipping Himself, he is worshipping Jesus.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    An archangel IS an angel. Your logic is twisted. To your own destruction.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Is that the best you can offer? Go read them yourselves, you’ve never read them.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Michael and Jesus are NOT the same. That’s Jehovah Witness crap. How many times have your ‘prophets’ foretelling of the return fail? What happened each time? Disappointment, that’s what happened. Why did they have to keep ‘reworking’ their calculations? Why do you continue to follow a false prophet?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    How can you make doctrine without interpreting scripture? The Bible itself is not doctrine. It is a collection of books.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Another bunch of crap, The soul is immortal. Adam and Eve were made to live forever.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    So you believe that the Jehovah Witnesses, who are proven to be false prophets, are not a man-made religion? Are you familiar with a man named Charles Taze Russell?.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Wrong. The name Peter, Kepha in Aramaic, means Rock.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You earlier stated that to confess Jesus was salvation.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Do you totally disregard the OT writings? Are not the events and people of the OT shadows of greater things to come?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    2 Samuel 6:9 “How can the Ark of my Lord come to me.” Luke 1:43 “How can this be that the Mother of my Lord can come to me.” 2 Samuel 6:11 “the ark remained in the house of Obededom for 3 months. Luke 1:56 “Mary remained with her 3 months” 2 Samuel 6:2 “And David arose and went to the hill country of Judah.” Luke 1:39 “Mary arose and went to the hill country to a town of Judah.” Psalm 132:8 “Arise, O Lord, and come to your resting place, you AND your mighty Ark.” Rev 11:19 states that the Ark of His covenant is in the temple in heaven.

  • Steve Smith

    First of all the Gospels were written in KOINE,I speak a dialect of Doric THAT IS CLOSER TO KOINE. IT IS NOT IFLUENCED BY TURKISH, LIKE MODERN GREEK. so you can na’ kathos

  • Steve Smith

    There are a few islands that speak it. my God parents were born before the population exchanges in the 20s. we still have our h sound not the ah sound in modern greek.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    No. They call them ‘Kingdom Halls”. Proves they aren’t a CHURCH, which is what Jesus founded.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    If you were Christian, you wouldn’t shun people that leave your cult and you would have love and charity for ALL people. Jehovah Witnesses will not give ONE DIME to any cause unless it serves only fellow witnesses. They refuse to serve in the military and refuse to salute the great American flag. If it weren’t for our military, your cult would not have the freedom to exist.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    My love for Jesus and what He did for me and everyone person in the world is what keeps me in His Church.

    • melfarmer

      Well there ya go.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    When was The Watchtower given possession of the Keys to the Kingdom and the power to bind and to loose?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Is that why the JW have the day Jesus died as one of their main thrusts? Why no celebration for the day He rose from the dead? It is only the resurrection of Jesus Christ, His defeating death, that any person on earth can resurrect from the dead.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    If the souls of the dead aren’t ‘conscious’ of anything, then why does Phillipians 2:10 quote that those in heaven and on earth and UNDER THE EARTH will bow to the name of Jesus Christ and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD? Who are these ‘under the earth’? Who are those in heaven declaring it? Why are the souls of the martyrs under Heaven’s altar crying out for vengeance on the earth if they aren’t aware or conscious of anything? Why aren’t you already bowing and confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord? It isn’t Michael that anybody is going to confess to be Lord except the enemies of Jesus Christ, Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Sorry.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You consider it disparing. In case you don’t know, Jesus will lead a great battle in the end. You have to believe that Jesus Christ is God to even claim to be a Christian. I would call you a Michean. Can you please provide the date that The Watchtower came into possession of the Keys to the Kingdom?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    So you think that the Ark that John saw in heaven is the gold covered box? What about the temple he saw? Was that the earthly temple?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Based on the fact that your interpretations are at odds with the historical church’s interpretation, that’s how.

    • M. Stamler

      God did say that interpretation belongs ONLY to Him. We are not to interpret the scriptures. They are to be translated only. That’s why completely accurate translating is required to create a Bible that means what was originally intended. I do not interpret the scriptures. A historical church that is interpreting scripture is doubly at odds with God. Man made churches and religions are an abomination to God and their adherents are likewise at odds with Him. So, a church, that is called “works of the flesh” in the Bible, that is interpreting scriptures, I would have absolutely no reason to pay any attention to it. It is not your job to disparage anyone. It is your job to take in accurate information, and it’s apparent that you have yet to do that. You are taking in faulty information, as are ALL adherents to all churches and religions. What they teach and practice is not in line with God’s will. It is in line only with their own will. Even so, you haven’t a right to behave the way you have.

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  • melfarmer

    Thanks…I will look at these also.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Then you are forced to throw out Rev 5:8-14 in which ‘dead’ people are offering up prayers before the throne of God, and are also singing and speaking; likewise, throw out Rev 6:9-11 that records the souls of those who had been killed are crying out for vengeance; also through out Matt 17:3 Moses and Elijah very much alive, conversing with Jesus.