MARTIN LUTHER-THE BARE TRUTH UNFOLDED

In a time of great chaos and anarchy within the Church, it is necessary to identify the source of chaos and disorder, and thus seek to bring back order as Christ intended. More than ever before the modern Church has become less like the Bride of Christ and more as the Whore of Babylon. People have often asked the question of ‘Why?’ but have never identified the root cause of this anarchy. Instead, there has been an ever-growing increase in godlessness and infidelity along with sin being promoted in the name of ‘grace’. Whether it is the sins of heresy and unbelief, as manifested in modernism; New Age teaching or some denial of Christian doctrine or Higher/Lower Criticism along with any other mockery of the Holy Scriptures or the Christian Faith. Or whether it is the open flouting of sin in the churches: promotion of sodomites/homosexuals and paedophiles in leadership; adultery amongst church leaders; open support of blasphemous material and teaching in the pulpit and so on. Whatever the situation, few have bothered to go to the historical root source and ask the right questions.

 

In an age of political correctness and false ecumenism, the Church has sunken deeper into apostasy as manifested in the above mentioned sins. It is expected to kowtow to the errors and false doctrines of Satan, the god of this world and prince of the powers of the air. (II Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 2:2), rather than be the Bride of Christ, unspotted and unblemished (Ephesians 5:25-32). What is grossly tragic is that few have taken the time to examine the Holy Scriptures and the history of the Church to see where the modern evils are coming from.

 

Amongst Christians, few have bothered to examine their roots and seek to correct the evil inherited. Many have grown around a myth or fable regarding personalities in the history of the Church, without fulfilling the Scriptural command to prove all things (I Thessalonians 5:25). Amongst the greatest and most destructive of these myths or fables that Scripture has warned about, is the legend built around Martin Luther. A number of Christians have been deluded into thinking that Martin Luther, the father of the Protestant Reformation, was a great hero who defended the Holy Scriptures and brought Scriptural knowledge to the world. When one begins to even make one criticism of this idol that has been made after deluded hands, then automatically he/she is accused of being a “Papist” or “Catholic sympathizer”.

 

Luther is dead but his evil legacy has still continued throughout the world and in all Christian denominations. It is time for genuine Christians to undo this evil legacy before it destroys their souls and the Church altogether.

 

I do not fear the accusations and I wish to urge all Christians, regardless of denomination, to prove all things and to renounce the root of rebellion and anarchy in the churches. Let God be true and every man a liar. (Romans 2:4). By facing the reality of Luther, a genuine Christian can place the Holy Trinity, the True God (I John 5:7, 20) in the rightful place of the soul and banish the antichrist spirit that has spoken through Luther and other deceivers (I John 4:1-3). I provide the quotes in full lest anyone accuse me of distortion or taking statements out of context.

 

 

And now, I dedicate my life and soul to the most Holy Trinity and bring the whole Church before the throne of God. May the Church experience genuine revival out of the spiritual slumber of death and gain back the first love due. Glory be to God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus. (Apocalypse/Revelation 22:20).

Yours in Christ,

Thomas King

Martin Luther, the founding heresiarch of the Protestant Reformation.

Martin Luther, the founding heresiarch of the Protestant Reformation.

1) MARTIN LUTHER AND HOLY SCRIPTURE. HIS ACTUAL VIEWS AND THOUGHTS ON BOOKS IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURE; VIEWS ON CHRIST OUR GOD; THE HOLY PROPHETS AND APOSTLES.

Amongst the first of these myths that a number of Christians have been deceived regarding Martin Luther is that he was the one who supposedly brought the West back to a return to the Holy Scriptures. This will shock many Christians who have held such a high opinion of Martin Luther as the supposed man who brought the West to a return to Scripture. However, all preconceptions aside, let us actually see what he actually said and taught which flies against both the Holy Scriptures and against the Holy Fathers. Ultimately, we find that only the traits of Lucifer are in this man, not our Lord Jesus Christ.

a)Denial of the authenticity of the Apocalypse/Revelation

This will surprise many of the dear Protestant Christians who hold to a firm belief in the Holy Scriptures. In fact, as a fellow Christian, I wish to extend my sympathies to such. However, facts are that the very founder of the Protestant Reformation did not have any reverence for the Holy Scripture, especially when it clashed with his subjective thinking. Before we consider this, let us consider the warning by the Blessed Apostle St. John in Revelation 22:18, 19: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecies of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” However, we find that Martin Luther had the gall to attack even any belief in the very Apocalypse itself as inspired of God. Let us consider this quote by Martin Luther:

to my mind, it [the book of the Apocalypse/Revelation] bears upon it no marks of an apostolic or prophetic character…Everyone may form his own judgment of this book; as for myself, I feel an aversion to it, and to me this is sufficient reason for rejecting it.

(Sammtliche Werke, 63, pp169-170, ‘The Facts About Luther’, O’Hare, TAN Books, 1987, p203)

Is it no wonder then that a certain Lutheran priest many centuries later in the 20th century stated on a radio program that both James and Revelation should be removed from our Bible and instead it should have the Shepherd of Hermas instead? (See Gail Riplinger’s New Age Bible Versions (1997), 2nd Edition, A.V Publications Corporation) In fact, it is known that the classical Reformed position on Revelation is one that allegorizes at best or negates at worse. [For that matter, Papism is no better either]. Is it no wonder also that because of this, a number of the modern translations [or perversions] of the Holy Scripture have not only excised many verses and phrases in the New Testament but also have mostly Protestants as their source for translation in their committees? No serious minded Christian who has the new birth from above, will ever question the authenticity of any book of the Holy Scripture, most especially the New Testament. By the words of Holy Scripture, Luther has brought damnation upon himself and this should serve as a warning to others.

  1. b) Denial and contempt for the Epistle of James and contempt for the Book of Esther and the Book of Jonah

If there was any book in the New Testament that was more subject to attack by Martin Luther it was none other than the Epistle of James. This was simply because Luther had become an antinomian and thus wanted an easy salvation that was devoid of repentance in accordance with faith. Sounds like most of Protestantism today, doesn’t it? Let us see what his actual words are regarding the Epistle of James:

We should throw the Epistle of James out of this school [Wittenberg], for it doesn’t amount to much. It contains not a syllable about Christ. Not once does it mention Christ, except at the beginning. I maintain that some Jew wrote it who probably heard about Christian people but never encountered any.

(Lecture at Wittenberg, 54, 424-425)

For Luther to blasphemously accredit the Blessed Apostle James as an unbelieving Jew who had no contact with Christianity is laughable to say the least and blasphemous at worst! No wonder we have in a number of Protestant churches and theological colleges, people who have no reverence for anything sacred and also who attack our Lord Jesus Christ and His Blessed Apostles!

In other writings, he referred to the Epistle of James as “a straw epistle” and even entertained the notion of doing damage to the Epistle of James saying that he wanted to throw it into the oven. [See Luther’s Preface to the New Testament where he refers to James as “the epistle of straw” and also Althaus, P. (1966) The Theology of Martin Luther , translated by Robert Schultz, Fortress Press, Philadelphia]

His contempt for Holy Scripture does not end at just the book of James, but also extends to attacking even the book of Esther and Jonah in the Hebrew Bible, which he supposedly based his version of the Bible on for the Old Testament. Here are his words on the matter:

The book of Esther I toss into the Elbe. I am such an enemy to the book of Esther that I wish it did not exist, for it Judaizes too much and has in it a great deal of heathenish foolishness.” (‘The Facts About Luther’, O’Hare, TAN Books, 1987, p202)

And also:

The history of Jonah is so monstrous that it is absolutely incredible.” (Ibid.)

Are we not surprised therefore that Lutheranism was the first to succumb to the blasphemous and ridiculous theories of Higher and Lower Criticism, and also to find her priests wanting to eliminate both James and Revelation? Let us not forget the earlier example of the Lutheran pastor/priest who stated on a radio program that both the Epistle of James and the Apocalypse/Revelation should be eliminated from our Bible. They are only following their wicked founder! Luther has in fact incurred God’s anathema on himself already. Many of these modern day Lutherans have become twice the sons of hell than Luther. Let us be warned.

  1. Deliberate adding of the word ‘free’ to Romans 3:28 along with deliberate, Satanic arrogance in elevating himself above even the Holy Fathers and Holy Apostles!

The very thought of excising from the Word of God should already cause one to cringe in disgust and make one wary of the eternal consequences. It should cause one to cringe even more to add to the Word of God as well. Unfortunately, this cannot be said for Martin Luther. Martin Luther in a deliberate attempt to support lawlessness in the Christian life, deliberately added the word “free” to his German bible, despite the fact that there is no serious evidence for this in the Greek text of the New Testament. To this he stated as his reasons for his deliberate distortion:

“If your Papist annoys you with the word [‘alone’-Romans 3:28], tell him straightaway, Dr. Martin Luther will have it so: Papist and ass are one and the same thing. Whoever will not have my translation, let him give it the go-by; the devil’s thanks to him who censures it without my will and knowledge. Luther will have it so, and he is doctor above all doctors in Popedom.”

(Amicable Discussion, I, 127, ‘The Facts About Luther’, O’Hare, TAN Books (1987), p201)

To add insult onto injury, he goes so far as to elevate himself greater than the Fathers, St. Ambrose and St. Augustine by stating:

“St. Augustine or St. Ambrosius cannot be compared with me.”

(Enlangen, Vol. 61, p422)

To show his utter egotistical attitude, which has carried on down through the rest of Protestantism, he states:

“Not for a thousand years has God bestowed such great gifts on any bishop as He has on me”

(Luther’s Works, Erlangen ed., 61:422)

If this really is the attitude of Luther towards God and His Truth, then God help today’s Protestants who have behaved in the same manner, if not worse. This is the very thing the Blessed Apostles Peter and Jude warned against. The Blessed Apostle Peter warned against private interpretation (II Peter 1:20, 21) and also warned that there are: “they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (II Peter 3:16). The Blessed Apostle Jude also stated: “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ…Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities…But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Co-re.” (Jude 3, 4, 8, 10, 11)

Alexei Khomyakhov (1804-1860), Russian Orthodox theologian, poet and physician

Alexei Khomyakhov (1804-1860), Russian Orthodox theologian, poet and physician

Alexei Khomyakhov, a 19th century Russian Orthodox theologian, when speaking on Protestantism described it as an error with a continual minus sign. In fact, he described it in no uncertain terms:
Protestantism means the expression of doubt in essential dogma. In other words, the denial of dogma as a living tradition; in short, a denial of the Church… Protestantism is one world simply negating another. Take away this other world which it is negating and Protestantism will die, since its whole life consists in negation. The body of doctrines it still holds, the work undertaken by the enterprise of a few scholars and later received by the apathetic credulity of several million uneducated people, is surviving only because the need is felt to oppose the Roman confession. As soon as this feeling disappears, Protestantism at once breaks down into private opinion with no common bonds whatever. (On The Western Confessions of Faith, 1900) Tragically, this is true today with disastrous results of infidelity, heresy and cults constantly created.

  1. c) Blasphemous references to both our Lord Jesus Christ, to God the Father, and also to the Holy Prophets and the Blessed Apostles.

This comes as a great shock to many Christians who have had high hopes in Martin Luther. However, if we were to actually look at what he said regarding our Lord Jesus Christ, God the Father and also the Holy Prophets and Blessed Apostles, it should cause even the most elementary of Christian believers to cringe with disgust.

In regards to our Lord Jesus Christ, Luther had the gall to accuse Him of committing fornication with the Samaritan woman at the well (Photini in Holy Tradition) as well as with Mary Magdalene. [Maybe one should wonder where the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, got some of his heresies from, seeing that he too taught the same thing in Doctrines and Covenants!]. He stated:

“Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tells us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.”

(Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107)

Obviously, Luther was distorting the meaning of the Scripture passages and in fact goes against our Lord Jesus Christ, Who stated: “Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” (John 8:46, 47)

Worse yet, is that Luther expressed that he had: “greater confidence in my wife and my pupils than I have in Christ.” (Table Talk, 2397b) and equally blasphemous, he dared to say regarding God:

“I look upon God no better than a scoundrel”

(Weimar, Vol. 1, Pg. 487. Cf. Table Talk, No. 963)

In addition to this, the blasphemous notion that the behaviour and conduct of Christ is not important compared to His teachings, is found in the mouth of none other than Luther himself and is today reiterated by so-called: “Christians” of a modernist/liberal persuasion. Here are his words on this:

“It does not matter how Christ behaved – what He taught is all that matters.” (Erlangen Vol. 29, Pg. 126).

This is exactly what one would expect to hear from the mouth of Lucifer himself. Therefore, Luther is clearly of Satan not of God.

To add insult onto injury, Luther also goes so far as to attack both the Holy Prophets and the Holy Apostles. This was slightly touched on earlier when we mentioned his attitude towards James. As an extension to his rebellion, he also attacks the Holy Blessed Prophet Moses as well. In fact, due to his antinomianism, it was logical for him to attack the Blessed Prophet Moses, which clearly puts Luther under the rebuke of our Lord Jesus Christ, who stated: “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of Me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” (John 5:46, 47) Let us see what evil Luther stated of Moses and the Law of Moses:

“If Moses should attempt to intimidate you with his stupid Ten Commandments, tell him right out – chase yourself to the Jews” (Letter to Melanchthon, August 1, 1521, American Edition, Luther’s Works, vol. 48, pp. 281-82)

“I will not have Moses with his Law, for he is the enemy of the Lord Christ”

(Tischreden (Table Talk), L.C.12.s.17)

“Moses must ever be looked upon with suspicion, even as upon a heretic, excommunicated, damned, worse than the Pope and the devil” (Commentary on Galatians)

“If we allow them – the Commandments – any influence in our conscience, they become the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemies” (Comm. ad Galat, p.310)

“When the devil comes to tempt and harass you . . . indulge some sin in hatred of the evil spirit and to torment him . . . otherwise we are beaten if we are too nervously sensitive about guarding against sin . . . I tell you, we must put all the Ten Commandments, with which the devil tempts and plagues us so greatly, out of sight and out of mind.” (Table Talk in De Wette, 5.188; De Wette was a Protestant scholar who collected the most significant sayings of Luther in several volumes)

“We must remove the Decalogue out of sight and heart” (De Wette, 4.188)

This reveals not only Luther’s filthy heart and spirit, but also shows that he hated what is holy and reveals himself to be a false accuser. To accuse the Ten Commandments and Moses as being the cause of blasphemy is something Satan would love to hear many times over and repeat in the ears of unbelievers to lead them away from the Holy Trinity.

We thus can prove that since Luther rejected Moses, he could not possibly accept Christ who urged the unbelieving Jews in His day to look to Moses for the answers. Luther being a filthy minded individual, could not cease blaspheming at that point and also called God the author of evil as well as good, which clearly goes against the Scripture. This is what he used to support his blasphemous antinomianism and thus stated that men were damned not on lack of faith and repentance towards our Lord Jesus Christ, but that God made it a necessity that some would be damned and some would be saved. This is a distortion of Scriptural predestination based on foreknowledge and response, rather than a blind ballot. Here are his words on this matter:

“Therefore, necessity, not free will, is the controlling principle of our conduct. God is the author of what is evil as well as what is good, and, as He bestows happiness on those who merit it not, so also does He damn others who deserve not their fate.” (‘De Servo Arbitrio’,7, 113, quoted by O’Hare, op.cit. pp266-267)

Therefore, since the likes of Luther and his followers who followed his blasphemous conclusions to their logical end to the point of attacking the Holy Trinity and the Word of God, we can only conclude that Luther damned himself to hell. (See Revelation 21:8).

2) MARTIN LUTHER AND SIN. TURNING THE GRACE OF GOD INTO PERVERSITY AND LIVING IN A DIABOLICAL MANNER.

Since Luther despised Moses and also despised the Law of God, it was only logical for him, due to his antinomianism, to encourage others to be lawless and wicked as he was. In a word, Luther was nothing short of a spiritual Jezebel and a Balaam to the Christian Church, or even a modern day forerunner of Nicolaitinism. (See Revelation 2:14, 15, 20-23). Here are his words at this point to show his blatant antinomianism and Nicolaitine behaviour:

“If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly . . . as long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. . . . No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day.” (Letter to Melanchthon, August 1, 1521, American Edition, Luther’s Works, vol. 48, pp. 281-82)

In addition to this, he speaks against any idea of repentance from sin in his own translation of the Holy Scripture by removing the word for “repent” in Matthew 3:2 and changing it altogether to: “mend” or “do better” which is totally different in meaning to repent. Is this really worthy of entry into the kingdom of heaven? Our Lord Jesus Christ says otherwise. (Matthew 7:21-23). Luther even dared to call the God-given conscience as even something of Satan himself! Here are his words:

“Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes.” (J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 248)

This sounds exactly like something the Nazis and the Communists would say! They had their predecessor in none other than Luther even before Hitler or Karl Marx. No wonder the former was so successful in Germany amongst Lutherans and the latter came out of a traitorous German Lutheran background that rebelled against God altogether.

In equally a wicked fashion, Luther advocated lying, something that not only goes against the Decalogue (which Luther expressed contempt for), but also against our Lord Jesus Christ, who is not only Truth, but also taught against lies because He called the Devil, “the father of liars” (John 8:44). Luther, on the other hand, taught otherwise:

“What harm could it do if a man told a good lusty lie in a worthy cause and for the sake of the Christian Churches?” (Lenz: Briefwechsel, Vol. 1. Pg. 373.)

To lie in a case of necessity or for convenience or in excuse – such lying would not be against God; He was ready to take such lies on Himself” (Ibid. p375)

This can only be expected of a follower of Satan, not a follower of Christ. Such is Luther.

As is typical of Satan, Luther also spoke against doing good works, contrary to what our Lord Jesus Christ taught us (Matthew 5:16). He stated:

It is more important to guard against good works than against sin.” (Trischreden, Wittenberg Edition, Vol VI, p160)

Luther was shameful enough to even call marriage as sinful, even though Scripture clearly teaches otherwise:

The matrimonial duty is never performed without sin” (Weimar, Vol.8, p654)

Since Luther has inverted good for evil and evil for good, then God clearly pronounces His woes upon him. (Isaiah 5:20-25). Luther clearly shows himself once again not only to be a heretic, but even worse, an antichrist and a devil.

3) MARTIN LUTHER AND THE FATE OF THE SOUL. DENIAL OF THE JUSTICE OF GOD AND OPEN HERESY.

Shocking but true, and in fact, Luther has his admirers in none other than the Seventh Day Adventists, for this heresy of annihilationism also known as soul sleep. Luther clearly taught this:

“ Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when are awaked, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute.

An Exposition of Salomon’s Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher, 1553, folio 151v. (A direct English translation of Luther’s German done in 1553)

But we Christians, who have been redeemed from all this through the precious blood of God’s Son, should train and accustom ourselves in faith to despise death and regard it as a deep, strong, sweet sleep; to consider the coffin as nothing other than our Lord Jesus’ bosom or Paradise, the grave as nothing other than a soft couch of ease or rest. As verily, before God, it truly is just this; for he testifies, John 11:11; Lazarus, our friend sleeps; Matthew 9:24: The maiden is not dead, she sleeps. Thus, too, St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, removes from sight all hateful aspects of death as related to our mortal body and brings forward nothing but charming and joyful aspects of the promised life. He says there [vv. 42ff]: It is sown in corruption and will rise in incorruption; it is sown in dishonor (that is, a hateful, shameful form) and will rise in glory; it is sown in weakness and will rise in strength; it is sown in natural body and will rise a spiritual body.”

—”Christian Song Latin and German, for Use at Funerals,” 1542, in Works of Luther (1932),Vol.6, pp.287,288.

Thus after death the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping it does not realize its sleep, and God preserves indeed the awakening soul. God is able to awake Elijah, Moses, and others, and so control them, so that they will live. But how can that be? That we do not know; we satisfy ourselves with the example of bodily sleep, and with what God says: it is a sleep, a rest, and a peace. He who sleeps naturally knows nothing of that which happens in his neighbor’s house;”- Am Zweiten Sonntage nach Trinitatis,” “Haus-Postille.” in Schriften, vol. 13, col. 2153; “Predigt uber 1 Cor. 15: (54-57),” (1533), “Auslegung des neuen Testament,” in Schriften, vol. 8, col. 1340

It is no marvel then to see both Seventh Day Adventists and other annihilationist heretical sects endorsing Luther. Luther, as usual, quotes Scripture out of context in the above, by quoting from Ecclesiastes as doctrine, even though Ecclesiastes was written to show the contrast between Solomon’s godless apostate thoughts and the godly thoughts. Not only has Luther and the annihilationists gone against Scripture many times over, but also have both the condemnation of the Holy Scripture against them and also the condemnation of the Council of Constantinople in 1082 which decrees:

“If anyone denies the existence of the soul, and thus denies eternal reward or eternal damnation, thus giving license for sin, let him be anathema.” (Decree V)

This decree was also reiterated in 1583 and in 1672 by Patriarchs Jeremiah II and Dositheus of Jerusalem respectively. The teaching of the Holy Scripture is also equally clear that there is eternal reward and eternal punishment. Our Lord Jesus Christ in fact defined it so clearly in Luke 16:19 onwards and also in Matthew 25:31-46 and so did the Apostles in their epistles many times over. We do not need to discuss this continually here since the subject is Luther rather than a whole doctrine unto itself. Suffice to say, that Luther was a manifest heretic and servant of Satan.

Hitler looks to Luther for inspiration

Hitler looks to Luther for inspiration

4) MARTIN LUTHER ON BOTH PEASANTS AND THE JEWS: ADOLF HITLER’S SPIRITUAL INSPIRATION

Our Lord Jesus Christ clearly had a heart not only for all people, but particularly the poor and always maintained His love for the Jewish people, despite being rejected by them as their Messiah. We discover this in not only His commandment to love both God and man (Matthew 22:37-39) but also in His actual words regarding the poor and His own people, the Jews. In the account in Luke 16:19-31, regarding the eternal bliss for Lazarus and eternal damnation for the rich man, we discover that the rich man had the beggar Lazarus outside of his gates every single day and he would not even show him the slightest of compassions. This obviously would work against him on the eternal scale of events. Our Lord even told a rich young ruler to distribute his goods to the poor before coming to follow him. (Matthew 19:16-26; Mark 10:17-27; Luke 18:18-27). In addition, the Lord Himself stated: “For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.” (Mark 14:7). I am not advocating that merely by helping the poor, one will attain salvation, but rather I do say as the Lord does state that doing good to the poor is a reflection of the work of grace of God being evident in a life of a person. This however, was not the case for Luther. He taught either ill-treatment of peasants or outright murder of peasants, merely because of his hard hearted attitude towards them:

“Peasants are no better than straw. They will not hear the word and they are without sense; therefore they must be compelled to hear the crack of the whip and the whiz of bullets and it is only what they deserve.” (Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294)

“To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs”. (Ibid.)

“I, Martin Luther, have during the rebellion slain all the peasants, for it was I who ordered them to be struck dead. All their blood is upon my head. But I put it all on our Lord God: for he commanded me to speak thus.” (Tischreden; Erlanger Ed., Vol. 59. p. 284) If that was not enough, he advocated abuse of power by the lords over the peasants, abusing the name of God as justification.

“God has given the law, and nobody observes it. He has in addition instituted rod masters, drivers and urgers; so then are rulers to drive, beat, choke, hang, burn, behead, and break upon the well of the vulgar masses.” (Sermon delivered by Luther in 1526. Ref. Erlanger, Vol. XV, 2p. 276)

The Holy Scripture clearly teaches that a ruler should only be a terror unto the wicked, not unto the masses in general, and that if a ruler does abuse his power to hurt others for his own selfish ends, he too would be cut down by God sooner or later, as clearly evidenced in Romans 13 and also in the case of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel, as well as Pharaoh’s abuse of the Israelites in Exodus. Shame on Luther for advocating tyranny!

His evil heart does not stop there. He goes so far as to advocate total eradication of the Jewish people, and damns each and every one of the Jews beyond hope of salvation. This is not what our Lord Jesus Christ did. Our Lord Jesus Christ clearly wept for Jerusalem (Matthew 23:37-39; Luke 13: 34, 35) and even prayed for the forgiveness of His Jewish people (Luke 23:34). Even the Holy Martyr, St. Stephen in Acts 6-8, prayed that our Lord Jesus Christ would not impute the sin of the Jewish people against them. Although the Blessed St. Paul received persecution by the Jews, yet he always held out hope for the final repentance and restoration of the Jewish people as evidenced in Romans 10-11. Not so with Martin Luther. Now before my Reformed Protestant friends point the fingers back at St. John Chrysostomos regarding his sermon, we should point out that there is a vast world of a difference between St. John Chrysostomos and Martin Luther. For starters, St. John Chrysostomos was not actually dealing with Jews proper, but with Judaizers. Unfortunately, the Latin translation along with other translations have compounded the misunderstanding by translating his sermon as “Against the Jews” when the actual Greek states: “Against Judaizers”. Secondly, St. John Chrysostomos actually had more to praise of the Jewish people than criticize them. For instance, he expresses his admiration at their keeping of the Old Testament and their reverence for their rabbis. Whilst he may have criticized Judaism, he never attacked Jews and always held out his arms for their reception into the Church. In fact, St. John Chrysostomos would be equally critical of Nazism had he lived in that period, as he was critical of all manner of pagans and heretics. However, back to Luther. Luther did not even hold out one conciliatory trait to the Jews. He even dedicated a whole attack against them and never ceased in this attack, even to his dying day. He wrote a whole tract against the Jews, but we need not quote the whole tract to understand his diabolical mindset. Here are his words:

“My advice, as I said earlier, is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire… Second, that all their books– their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible– be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted…Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country…Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it…” (“On the Jews and their Lies” translated by Martin H Bertram, Fortress Press, 1955)

and also:

“Burn their synagogues. Forbid them all that I have mentioned above. Force them to work and treat them with every kind of severity, as Moses did in the desert and slew three thousand… If that is no use, we must drive them away like mad dogs, in order that we may not be partakers of their abominable blasphemy and of all their vices, and in order that we may not deserve the anger of God and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Let everyone see how he does his. I am excused.” (Ibid.)

“If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone round his neck and push him over with the words I baptize thee in the name of Abraham” (Grisar, “Luther”, Vol. V. pg. 413.)

“The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows seven times higher than ordinary thieves.” (Weimar, Vol. 53, Pg. 502.)

No wonder the Nazis were able to use Luther to convince the German people to hate and murder the Jewish people! In fact, it is not surprising to see the Lutheran “Church” being the first to collaborate with the Nazis. The Muslims even love Luther for this and have even published his hatred of the Jews on their website: http://www.abbc2.com/luther/index.htm

How ironic that a man who believed in using (but not necessarily believing) the Hebrew Old Testament for one half of his ‘bible’ would be the fervent enemy of the ones who are responsible for the ‘oracles of God’ (Romans 3:4)! In fact, whilst there are Lutherans and other Protestants who have opposed the Nazis, my kudos to them, but it does not change the fact that Luther was a bitter hater of the Jews. For that matter, may I take the opportunity to state clearly that any Orthodox who participates in the same anti-Christian hatred towards the Jewish people and blames them for all manner of ill, is not a true Christian but will end up accepting the Antichrist when he comes along. Our Fathers [see also St. John Damascene, who clearly stated in his “Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith”, that the Jews in the last days of the 2 witnesses of the Apocalypse will repent] as well as Scripture held out hope for them, so why can’t we as Orthodox do the same?

5) MARTIN LUTHER AND ISLAM: ULTIMATE TREACHERY MANIFOLD

This will again come as a shock to those whom hold Luther in high esteem, but Luther held Islam and her armies in admiration. It is true that he wrote a tract entitled: “On War Against the Turk”, whereby it appears that he is opposed to Islam on theological grounds and urges the German people to resist invasion. Nonetheless, he is more tolerant towards Islam than he is towards the Jews. In fact, he even states as much:

“Let the Turk believe and live as he will, just as one lets the papacy and other false Christians live.” (On War Against the Turk)

But that is not all. He even goes so far as to claim that a Muslim ruler (a Turkish ruler) is better than a Christian ruler:

“A smart Turk makes a better ruler than a dumb Christian” (Ibid.)

Suleiman the Magnificent, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire in the time of Luther.

Suleiman the Magnificent, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire in the time of Luther.

It is no accident since Luther hated Jews and the Pope more than he did the Islamic religion and therefore, despite knowing what was wrong with the Islamic religion theologically and also in terms of what it would do given full swing over Europe, he urged his followers to side with the Muslim Turks in defeating Europe. After calling the Jews and the Pope some foul names such as “Antichrist” and “Devil incarnate”, he then urged his followers to look at the Turks in the best manner and even went so far as to say that some of his German contemporaries (read traitors), “actually want the Turk to come and rule, because they think that our German people are wild and uncivilized – indeed that they are half-devil and half-man” (Found in The Ottoman Empire and early modern Europe, by Daniel Goffman, Cambridge University Press, 2002, p110). What is most interesting about the whole matter is that Suleiman the Magnificent, the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire during Luther’s time, that he sent a letter to Luther’s followers in Flanders, Holland which stated that he felt akin to them since: “they did not worship idols, believed in one God and fought against the Pope and Emperor” (Found in The Ottoman state and its place in world history by Kemal H. Karpat p.53). Suleiman the Magnificent extended his kinship further and wrote letters to German princes who were sympathetic to Luther to form an alliance with him to fight both the Emperor and the Pope as well giving protection to Luther and Calvin’s followers in Hungary and Transylvania. (See Muslims and the Gospel: Bridging the Gaps by Roland Miller, Lutheran University Press, Minneapolis, 2005 p208). In fact, one of the biggest collaborators with Suleiman the Magnificent was a Unitarian, John Sigismund, who not only was dependent on the Sultan for rule of Hungary, but the establishment of this wicked heretical Unitarian “Church” of Transylvania. [On a side note, the first Unitarian, Michael Servetus, was initially supportive of the Reformation of Luther, only to fall out of grace with John Calvin, due to his heretical denial of the Trinity. Evil company can always fall in and out of each other! This is evident by the fact that Luther hated both John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli, who were also responsible for the Reformation!]

John Sigismund of Hungary, pledging allegiance to Suleiman the Magnificent.

John Sigismund of Hungary, pledging allegiance to Suleiman the Magnificent.

It was no accident that a century later, a Muslim diplomat from Morocco sent to cement an alliance between Protestant Holland and the Ottoman Empire along with the Islamic kingdoms of Morocco and the Moriscos, by the name of Al-Hajari, would state in his book, the following:

“Their teachers [Luther and Calvin] warned them [Protestants] against the Pope and the worshippers of Idols; they also told them not to hate the Muslims because they are the sword of God in the world against the idol-worshippers. That is why they side with the Muslims.”

—Al-Hajari, The Book of the Protector of Religion against the Unbelievers

That is why it was so easy for Luther’s followers and the followers of John Calvin to collaborate with the Islamic forces attacking Europe. Luther laid the groundwork for this in his half-hearted statements regarding Islam along with his actions. But it gets worse from here on in. After the demise of Suleiman the Magnificent, Murad III, his successor wrote a letter to forge alliance with the Lutherans in both Flanders and Spain that stated:

“As you, for your part, do not worship idols, you have banished the idols and portraits and “bells” from churches, and declared your faith by stating that God Almighty is one and Holy Jesus is His Prophet and Servant, and now, with heart and soul, are seeking and desirous of the true faith; but the faithless one they call Papa does not recognize his Creator as One, ascribing divinity to Holy Jesus (upon him be peace!), and worshiping idols and pictures which he has made with his own hands, thus casting doubt upon the oneness of God and instigating how many servants to that path of error”

—1574 letter of Murad III to the “Members of the Lutheran sect in Flanders and Spain”

Murad III, successor of Suleiman the Magnificent and collaborator with Luther’s followers.

Murad III, successor of Suleiman the Magnificent and collaborator with Luther’s followers.

It was also no accident that in the Battle of Lepanto in 1571 that amongst the Ottoman forces were to be found Lutheran and Calvinist allies from Holland and England. Treachery continues and in the Battle of Vienna in 1681, the leader of the Protestants in Hungary, Imre Thokoly in conjunction with the Ottoman forces was attacking Vienna. It is the grace of God that prevented this Islamic scourge from succeeding with Vienna as they had with Constantinople, due to the intervention of John Sobieski, king of Poland. Nonetheless, it is clear by now that the followers of Luther and Calvin were willing allies and traitors to the forces of Islam due to the groundwork laid by the Reformers. In fact, it became a common saying among the Dutch Protestants in the 16th century that they would “rather a Turk than a Papist”. Sadly, the same was said by a number of Orthodox Christians before the fall of Constantinople in 1453: “Better the turban than the tiara”, for which the Orthodox Church has paid a bitter, bloody price as evidenced in the number of Saints and New Martyrs during the Ottoman and Caliphate eras. History repeats itself indeed when others fail to learn from it! Orthodox Christians should wake up and learn from St. John Damascene and not be blinded by sugarcoat that Islam promoted using fair words and fair speeches stating that they worship the same God as us or that we have more in common! St John Damascene was in the second most powerful place in the court of the Caliph of Syria, and yet he was never corrupted by Islam. In fact, he saw its full reality and in his book, The Fount of Knowledge, even named Islam as the “heresy of the Hagarenes (Descendants from Hagar, the mother of Ishmael)”, and even named Allah as “Baal” as well as calling Muslims: “Mutilators of God” to counter their accusations towards the Christians as being “Associators of God”. Such a Saint and Father saw right through it all and pulled no punches whatsoever. Orthodox Christians have no excuse for treasonous collaboration with Islam. Those who have done so have betrayed the Church and have become as Judas Iscariot. If the persecutions do not teach us anything, then should not the actual blasphemies against Christ our God be enough along with the vitriol that is leveled against both Jews and Christians in the Qu’ran be enough?! Unlike Luther and Calvin, we have no excuse since we have the example of Saints and New Martyrs and some of the Fathers (e.g. St. John Damascene) to teach us the evils of Islam, both theologically and in practice. History should have taught us that collaboration only worked against the Church in the end. Anathema be upon all the Quislings in the Church, be they hierarch or layman!

I digress slightly, but evidence is enough to show, even in this present day, that Luther and his evil fruit have been responsible for the Islamic threat that is now threatening the West more than ever before. It is no accident that the Muslims and left-wing liberals have named “Martin Luther”: Tariq Ramadan. The connection is not so far-fetched when you consider that both have a hatred for the Jewish people, both are deniers of Christ and both have advocated evil rulership. Mr. Tariq Ramadan is in fact a direct descendant of the Muslim Brotherhood’s founder, Hassan al-Banna. As is typical of Muslim theology, he practices “al-taqqiyah”, or lying for the sake of Islam and this is also not different from Luther who advocated, as quoted earlier, the teaching of lying for the cause of God in the name of grace.

Another evil fruit of Luther’s duplicity with Islam is that many of the Lutheran churches today are anti-Israel and pro-Islamic terrorist. This is evidenced in many of the statements made by official leaders in the Lutheran World Council and other Lutheran officials, whereby Israel was always accused of “atrocities” for defending herself and her citizens, both Jew and Arab, from Islamic terrorist attacks by Palestinian terrorist groups. You only need to check the official records to see what is stated is the truth.

Suffice to say, Luther has not only been worthy of Lucifer, but also Judas Iscariot and the Antichrist and has shown so by his sympathetic gestures to Islam, despite knowing their theological errors. Any Christian in Lutheran circles today who does not wish to participate in either Luther’s hatred of Jews or his pandering to the antichrist religion of Islam should have the courage to name him as a “firstborn of Satan”, as the Blessed St. John the Apostle named Cerinthus, and hopefully, leave Lutheranism for a genuine Christianity.

 

6) CONCLUSION

It is clearly evident that the behaviour of Martin Luther as well as his thoughts reflect that of Lucifer rather than a follower of our Lord Jesus Christ. It would be accurate to refer to him as “Martin Lucifer” since he reflected exactly the character traits of Lucifer such as denial of the Word of God; encouragement to sin; hating the people of God’s First Covenant (the Jews); along with morally supporting the antichrist religion of Islam. I would genuinely urge all genuine Christians who have received God’s new birth from above regardless of denomination, to throw off any vestiges you may hold of Martin Luther, since the end result of the Reformation has led many to anarchy and spiritual death.

Based on the above, what are some of the most harmful fruit that Luther’s legacy has left for many? Here is a list that will cause one to shudder:

  • Criticism and negation of the Scriptures in theological colleges and in the churches. This began with the schools of thought called: “Higher and Lower Criticism”. The first to begin this destructive trend since the 17th century is none other than the Lutheran Church. That is not too surprising considering that Martin Luther was a Scripture critic himself. We only need to consider what he said earlier regarding the books of James, Apocalypse/Revelation, Esther and Jonah. In short, Luther is the spiritual father of the Western churches’ modernism and liberalism.
  • Allegarization of the Holy Scriptures to the point of negating both the beginning of Creation and the events of the Last Days before Judgment. Since Luther was already a denier of Scripture, it was not so surprising to see Protestants being the first to deny Creation and advocate Darwinism/evolution theory as well as to allegorize all the events relating to the Second Coming of Christ. This was obvious with the likes of Benjamin Warfield, who is considered the No. 1 Reformed apologist in modern times! Shame on any Orthodox, both clergy and layman, who has picked up this damnable trend from the Reformation’s evil fruit! Anathema be upon all such deniers of the Word of God, whatever their denomination, even if they are within Orthodoxy.
  • General toleration of sin and promotion of sinful behaviour in the churches, especially in the leadership, all under the name of “grace” (really turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, to quote the Blessed Apostle Peter, I Peter 2:16). This was alluded to earlier in my foreword, whereby it was indicated there has been an immense toleration for sodomites and heretics in the leadership. But equally worse, is the way in which sin has been treated lightly in the churches to the point of using “grace” as a cover to bring in blasphemous heresies and tolerating evil behaviour that goes against Holy Scripture. This also includes tolerating devil-possessed rock music into the churches along with other evil practices. All this is thanks to Luther’s idea of “be a sinner and sin boldly” coupled with false grace. In fact, out of this evil mentality stems a damnable heresy of “easy believism” advocated in a number of Protestant churches. This heresy states that one can make an outward profession of ‘belief’ in the gospel and live an unrepentant, evil life, and still be on their way to heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth and Luther is the ancestor of this damnable heresy!

 

  • Hatred of Jews. This manifests itself in many forms. Two of the most popular forms are: negating any validity of the Old Testament and blaming the nation of Israel for every manner of ill. The first is manifest in many Reformed circles and others by stating: “It is all Old Testament. We are under the New Testament.” By using such a phrase, such irresponsible people do not realize that the Law is the schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24) that makes the New Testament/Covenant possible. The Law makes the due preparation that grace may truly work. In addition, to negate Moses, as Luther did earlier to the point of personal attacks on Moses, means to negate our Lord Jesus Christ since that is exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ pointed out. (John 5:46, 47). To negate the Old Testament also means negating the New Testament too. In fact, it is not surprising to see tolerated in mainstream Protestantism due to Luther’s evil seed, the negation of both! The second attack on the Jews via attacking Israel and blaming her for all manner of ills is a potent one since it often means siding with the Islamic enemy at the expense of Christians suffering at the hands of Muslims in the Middle East. Israel is not perfect, yet Israel is the only nation in the Middle East that has given total freedom to all Christians and others outside of Judaism, something that is taken for granted in the West. Yet how many times do we hear mainstream Protestant churches and their spokesmen in leadership attack Israel and side with Islamic terrorists in Palestine! We can indeed thank Luther for this, based on his unrelenting attack on the Jews. It is equally sad to see this going on in Orthodox circles, and we have no excuse for this behaviour! I digress slightly, but the point being that Luther’s hatred of the Jews has continued even into the churches of today.

 

  • Collaboration with Islam and Muslim fundamentalists and extremists. How many times in mainstream Protestantism, whether conservative or liberal, do we hear the blaming of Israel for every ill on the Palestinians, most of which is really self-inflicted. How many times do we hear in mainstream Protestantism, Lutheran churches and today’s Anglican churches being the worst culprit, do we hear of “building bridges of understanding” between Islam and Christianity, not for the purpose of leading Muslims to saving faith in Christ, but for this disease of ecumenism. This applies to Orthodox hierarchs committing the same sins, but they should know better and are without excuse! How many Islamic terrorist imams in the Western world have shaken hands with these treacherous Protestant clergy, all pretending to be “moderate” Muslims. How many wicked leaders do we have such as Gordon Moyes, Tim Costello, Robert Schuller, Bill Crews, Billy Graham, Rick Warren, Tony Campolo and others who promote the unity with Islamic terrorism trend. Thank you very much, Mr. Martin Lucifer! You have done your good work!

 

  • Formation of myriads of pseudo-Christian, pseudo-biblical cults and sects that often deny all the core Christian doctrines and use exactly the same premise as Luther: “Scripture only”. One only needs to see the likes of such heretics such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, Seventh Day Adventists and so on to see exactly what is meant. “Scripture only” has become an excuse for not accepting correct teaching in the Scripture and substituting private, personal interpretations as authority. It is no wonder that Khomyakhov (a Russian Orthodox theologian) stated that Protestantism and Papism are 2 sides of the same coin. Protestantism with a continual minus and Papism with a continual plus. Both of which are damaging to the Truth.

 

  • Most importantly and most damaging of all is the One World Church trend using all of the above evil results. This is also known as the “Emergent Church”. Indeed it is emerging from the pits of hell and the world as centre stage as detailed in Apocalypse/Revelation Chapter 17. Luther is also to be thanked for this trend since all that was against the Law of God and sinful was being promoted by him. It is also no surprise to note that many of the Emergent leaders love Luther no end. [e.g Mark Driscoll]. Evil companions have their company. Equally disgusting and without any excuse is to see Orthodox members, both clergy and laity, even engaging with these wicked minded people. What treachery! What antichrists!

 

It is now for genuine Christians who have genuinely received a saving faith from above and thus a new birth, to make a serious decision, regardless of your denominational trappings. Will you serve the Lord Jesus Christ or will you follow Martin Luther/Lucifer? Choose you this day whom ye will serve. But as for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord. (Joshua 24:15).

God bless.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. Both now and always, and unto the ages upon ages. Amen.

Δόξα Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ καὶ Ἁγίῳ Πνεύματι,

καὶ νῦν καὶ ἀεὶ καὶ εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων. Ἀμήν (Greek)

תהילה אל האב, ועל הבן של רוח הקודש, גם עכשיו ותמיד, ואל הגילאים הגילאים. אמן

(Hebrew)

ال مجد ل لآب والاب ن ال روح ال قدس و،

داهري ن.والآن وإل ى الأب د وإن ا دهر ال . آم ين (Arabic)

光栄は父と子と聖神に帰す、今も何時も世々に、アミン。(Japanese)

願光榮歸於父、及子、及聖神,以迨永遠,及世之世,阿們。 (Chinese)

25

아버지와 아들과 성령에 영광을, 연령의 그리고 영원 토록하고 귀속될 연령대. 아멘 (Korean)

Слава Отцѹ и Сынѹ и Свѧтомѹ Дѹхѹ,

И нынѣ и приснω и во вѣки вѣкωмъ. Аминь. (Slavonic)

Gloire au Père, et au Fils et au Saint-Esprit. et maintenant et toujours, et dans les siècles des siècles. Ainsi soit-il. (French)

पिता और िुत्र और िपित्र आत्मा की जय, और उम्र के अब और हमेशा के लिए और उम्र के इधार. आमीन. (Hindi)

 

 

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  • Tom_mcewen

    While a protestant I had a epiphany listening to a sermon. It was we are made in an image of God, and that image holds values of God even darkly. We as the image can slice very thinly between right and wrong, we know how the innocent, the murderer, the thief, the oath breaker and those who bear false witness. We in protection of the innocent isolate the evil in prison away from society, we expect some justice for the harmed. But in protestantism it is upside down. In the church of ME and the hope of heaven me as gulity must let murderers, thieves into heaven without punishment, there is punishment but it is of the king’s whipping boy. Christ is the whipping boy of protestants, all the sins are answered by Christ further suffering. God says Nothing unclean shall enter heaven, Protestantism says all unclean shall enter disguised as Christ, there are no words and deeds to keep you out because protestantism takes away the judgement of God. If I am the image of God, then I am not the image of the protestant God, who protects not the innocent nor punishs the gulity.

    • DeusLoVult

      Tom, would you mind sharing with me, the story of how you came to convert from Protestantism to Catholicism?

      • Tom_mcewen

        Reading, reading being attacked so being informed to answer attacks, plus sitting in an empty Catholic church feeling that I was not alone. I once was an infantry man and you know when you are being watched from the tree line, there is a presence of Christ in the church not in a protestant church. The courage of the Russian Orthodox taught me much.

        • colin

          The presence of Christ within a catholic church.. feels like “the enemy watching from a tree line”

          I would laugh if it weren’t so serious; however I agree with you that you won’t be alone in a catholic church.

          As the first time I went into a catholic church after my salvation I had to flee as my skin began to crawl and I began to feel sick, as I felt demonic religious spirit try and cling on to me.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            The devil feels the same way as you in the Presence of Christ.

          • Julie

            LOL

          • Tom_mcewen

            Interesting, I wonder if you bought the demonic spirit with you and it panicked and tried to crawl out of your skin to escape

          • colin

            Nah by that time I had a few different demons cast out; the one that I remember the most I had the most horrible taste in my mouth to this day.. like a thousand bad breathes all rolled into one.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Maybe you should see a Catholic priest.

          • Julie

            Yes….the presence of Christ is drawing more out, recalling his former vile anti Catholic posts as well.

          • Grandmere

            If I recall, they were cast out by some guys from India.

          • The demon of gingivitis?

          • Bad breath as a sign of sin. I’m keeping that one in case I run into another weird fire-breather on my walks.

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            That’s why it’s called halitosis….hell he toss is.

          • Стефан Евгений

            My be it was trying to get out of you lol

          • Stephen Dalton

            Yeah, some demons have self-respect!

          • DeusLoVult

            Yeah, it decided edwitness was a less degrading host.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Orthodox, say that if you have a heaviness when you enter a Church, you have a demon. You mostly see this in un- baptized.

        • DeusLoVult

          Thank you for telling me. 🙂 I have attended many Protestant Churches…..perhaps I shall see if the Catholic Church ‘feels’ any different. I know none of the Churches I have visited ever left me feeling spiritually satisfied.

          • Julie

            You needed prayers in the past…go visit Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament when it is open and people are just there praying.

          • DeusLoVult

            I might just do that, my lady…or I might attend mass. 🙂

          • Julie

            I just heard from my sister and her evangelical son in law who is very loving and really lives the Word of God and is not anti Catholic, just went to Christmas Mass and came out raving how beautiful our worship is in the Mass.

            Or stay after and in the quiet with candle light before the Lord. He is waiting for you with much love and peace and healing.

          • DeusLoVult

            That is encouraging, my lady. 🙂 I have often desired to stay in Church for a few hours after service…or maybe during the week…..just praying….and focusing on godly pursuance…

          • Julie

            That is truly inspired from the Lord…it s likewise a grace to act on the inspirations God gave us….

          • Joe M

            I would advise, lay down in private of course on your bedroom floor completely naked and beg God to possess you. Offer yourself to God and he will take you. You will know it, give yourself over to Jesus.

          • DeusLoVult

            Naked? What the h*ll…..

            I have already given myself to Jesus. That is not enough. I need spiritual guidance, and to learn sound theology. I have never found either in a Protestant Church.

          • susan

            i thought the same thing Deus….how bizarre…to strip oneself naked… What apostle ever did that?!?

          • DeusLoVult

            None, my lady. Sounds like some kind of medical treatment prescribed by a quack doctor from the 19th century.

          • susan

            Indeed it does! I’m sure he meant well but it’s not biblical.

          • Grandmere

            Jesus cast demons out of a man who was running around naked. Remember the story?

          • DeusLoVult

            That isn’t the same as conversion, my lady. I don’t recall people having to strip their clothes off to give themselves to Jesus. And nor do I take kindly to the accusation that I am possessed by demons

          • Grandmere

            Quickly go below and see my reply to Dave before disqus shuffles the deck. I couldn’t help myself! LOL

          • DeusLoVult

            I’m too late, my lady. Trying to comment on my phone….not working well.

          • Grandmere

            Just in case – I asked him if Joe had gotten him and Colin to get naked yet and the next comment in line was him saying “yes”. Priceless!

          • DeusLoVult

            Lol. Well, their relationship sure escalated quickly!

          • Grandmere

            You mistook my meaning. Demons often provoke people to take all of their clothes off. The demon possessed man in the story was naked and no one could get clothes on him.

          • DeusLoVult

            Interesting, my lady….I have heard that before…..think I understand you now. 😉

          • mikifenn

            Yes, he did. But running around naked does not drive out demons.

          • Catbr

            Running around naked might not drive out demons but it just might drive people out of town from fear of what they see.

          • Grandmere

            It is a sign of demon possession. After Jesus cast out the demon the man was clothed and in his right mind.

          • Tom_mcewen

            well there was the naked young man who ran. it is reported he may have been mark

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Losing their clothes is what happened to the Temple guards if they were found asleep during night watch – see also Rev 16:15

          • Joe M

            Well, why are you saying that you don’t feel spiritually satisfied. If you have given yourself to Jesus and he has accepted you, you should definitely feel spiritually satisfied for when you take a drink of the water he gives then you will never thirst again. Now, you say Jesus is not enough but you need a church building or people to spiritually satisfy you.

            It would be understandable if you had just said that you wanted to find a church that you could join in worship with its congregation in a style that appealed to you.

            I know that the Presbytarian churches can offer you the support you need because this Church has had a miracle from God since its founding. It would seem that it has links to a Protestant known as Lucifer by Roman Catholics, who wanted to remove scriptures from the Gospels, Book of James and even Book of Revelation, plus he blasphemed against God and made other vile statements, yet the Churches who were subjected to his ideas and concepts, and so called weird demonic theology, did not remove the Book of James, and the Book of Revelation, nor did they call God a rascal unlike their leader, and they even kept the theology of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the belief in the crucifixion, and the atoning blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

            How can that be the case after being tutored by Martin Luther and his so called heretical and demonic companions in vile sins against the Holy Papal throne and God in person? Only one conclusion; the Protestant Churches have been saved by the hand of God himself, proving that wicked Luther did not succeed in his evil plan. I am living proof of it! Thank you Lord!

          • DeusLoVult

            Do you think a profession of allegiance to our Lord, Jesus, is the entirety of the Christian Faith? Hardly. That is only the first step of a long journey. I am not satisfied. My quest will never be complete without joining myself to the fullness of our Faith.

            I do not like the Presbyterian Church. They believe in predestination, which I find to be quite wrong.

          • Joe M

            We don’t believe in predestination. You are confused, it is Muslims who believe in predestination. We believe everyone has free choice, to be bad or good. God doesn’t want puppets, he wants us to have free choice. God can see into our future, and it would not be right to think that he is surprised by our choices. We don’t believe in predestination so understand that, but we do believe that our Lord delivers us from evil and unless we foul up, we are heaven bound.

            We believe that Jesus has clearly said that should one sneak in to the wedding feast in heaven inappropriately dressed, which is dirty and unkept, we believe, He Jesus will have him bound up and thrown out into darkness. This scriptural warning statement indicates that people are not getting into Heaven after having led filthy lives, and worse, even using Jesus as a licence to sin!

            Now, l don’t like to say this but it is the truth, while l am reading of the condemnation from Roman Catholics, that non- Roman Christains, will not be allowed to access heaven and stay there, because they don’t attend religious services, devotions, at the Roman Catholic Church, and don’t do things in exactly the same way as R C Christians, their Pope has said that even homosexuals, Muslims, and atheists, and people from all faiths will be allowed into heaven on the basis that God loves everyone. Hmmm!

          • DeusLoVult

            Do not lie to me, they do hold that belief.

            http://classroom.synonym.com/predestination-basic-belief-modern-presbyterian-church-16873.html

            I don’t recall him saying anything of the sort. Even so…I strongly dislike Francis.

          • Joe M

            That is a ridiculous statement. Presbyterians do not, l am one, l should know! It’s a question of what you choose to believe, you will probably find websites dedicated to denouncing Presbytarians as believing in flying saucers and aliens. Our enemies are a force to be reckoned with. I cannot speak for Calvinists or strange church groups. I can only tell you, we don’t! I am not a liar, and my religion doesn’t follow kitman and tacqua (sic). I have no reason to lie or be ashamed to tell the truth.

          • Joe M

            The article clearly says ;n”Presbyterians Today.” The extent to which modern-day Presbyterians follow the “Confession” and Calvinism, however, depends on which sect they belong to; the largest group, for instance, embraces a range of beliefs about predestination,. The article also states that no Christian group or individual is forced to believe in predestination.

            I don’t know what goes on in American Presbytarian Churches, but you shouldn’t make a sweeping statement about all Presbytarians. I don’t belong to a little Church, the Presbytarian Church l belong to is the Church of my Nation, my country.

            I do believe that l didn’t find God, but he found me. There’s nothing wrong with believing that, particularly as it is the truth in my case! It doesn’t mean that l believe in predestination. As for ” the elect” we who stay loyal to Jesus, we are the elect and also we are his saints. All Presbytarian Christians are defined as God’s saints. We don’t need papal authority to be made a saint, we just need to walk the walk and talk the talk and endure until the end.

            Note, that we don’t dispute those made saints by the Roman Catholic hierarchy, because we believe they were saints as all Christians are saints. We don’t dispute that one was a greater saint than another. The elect were and are Christians who are made Apostles, and Prophets, and Preachers and Teachers, etc, not all are made Apostles or Prophets, but God gives talents. That no one should boast, all are equal in the eyes of God, all who are following a Christian life and Christain beliefs. Yes, male and female, young and old!

            ” Oh, when the saints go marching in, Oh when the saints go marching in, l will be in that number, when the saints go marching in.”

            “Stand up, stand up for Jesus, ye, soldiers of the Lord. ”

          • DeusLoVult

            Irrelevant whether or no you can choose to practice it or not. It is part of your Church’s foundation, and beliefs. Rooted in the teachings of Calvin, a d*mnable heretic. Worse than Luther. They also ordain women. Another error of consequence.

          • Dave Knapp

            You certainly won’t find it in Catholicism.,.but then the bible does say there is a way that seems right to a man yet ends in death…..this is the catholic religion. Their whole house of cards gets knocked down by Galatians alone…

          • DeusLoVult

            Where would you look for it? In the pages of Alexander Hislop’s fantasy novels? Why should I believe your nonsense?

          • Catbr

            And you are….? The authoritarian of nothing, I would venture to say.

          • Grandmere

            Whatever you do, DO NOT follow Joe’s advice!

          • DeusLoVult

            I have no plans too, my lady, no plans at all…

          • Joe M

            I would like you to explain to me why you think that my advice of praying in private prostrate on the bedroom floor is wrong? Does it offend God, or is it that if one does it in the nude that it offends God? You see l don’t understand why you think this, but l want to understand?

          • Catbr

            Are you a holy nudist?

          • Grandmere

            Okay, Joe. This is it. If I slipped and fell in the shower, I most certainly would call out to the Lord to help me. However, I would never recommend that disrobing would bring anyone closer to the Lord. Might I suggest you buy a pure, white linen robe instead? It would be but a poor imitation of what we will wear, but it would probably get your head in the right place. That is all I will have to say on the subject.

          • Joe M

            Well l only advocate it on a special occasion, not routinely.

            Actually, Jesus took our shame on him, and nakedness conveys that humility and shame.

            You do sound as if you were born fully dressed!

            It is pointless trying to explain anything to a person who over reacts and gets hysterical. I don’t think there is anything wrong with my head, no l am just the victim of demonisation by arrogant people! However, let us end this communication on this sour note, on the brink of New Year’s Day, because l find you cold prior to the day they put you in your box.

          • Stephen Dalton

            Pervert!

          • Joe M

            Why do you think that there is something wrong and perverted if one in private prostrates oneself naked before our Lord? There is no sexual connotation to doing. Your Lord made your body and he knows what you look like. Before Eve and Adam ate the fruit from the forbidden tree, they dwelled naked before God. It was Satan who made them believe that they should hide their nakedness from God. We know what God thought about their behaviour!

            What is wrong with you? Get a grip, man?

            Even King David danced in a joyful frenzy before his Lord, to the point where his loin cloth fell off, and his wife despised him for it. We know what King David thought of her rebuke, he never shared her bed again.

            Don’t rebuke me, sir, it is you who deserves rebuke! What a mind you have!

            14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. 15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. 16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul’s daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart. 20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! 21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD. 22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honor.
            – 2 Samuel 6:14-16, 20-22

          • Stephen Dalton

            If I were you, I wouldn’t talk about this in public Someone might call for the guys with the butterfly nets to take you away to the funny farm.

          • Joe M

            Another bit of education for you Stephen; there are laws that protect people from persecution because of their religion and religious beliefs! Obviously, if one commits acts of terrorism because of a religious belief then a prosecution should follow, but being naked in your own bedroom should not be considered an act of terrorism or insanity.

            I hope people will back me up in my response to you in view of the unrighteousness attitude you have!

          • Stephen Dalton

            My attitude is one of love and concern for your mental health Joe. BTW, be very careful about who you tell this stuff too. If you tell this to some woman, her father or brother might beat the crap out of you!

          • Joe M

            I don’t perceive that your attitude is loving. I even wonder if you consider it bad or mad to say that you take a shower or bath. It seems that it’s you who has the mental problems. I am almost rendered speechless. I don’t know how you can read the articles that Walid and Theodore present on this forum, as you are so easily shocked and offended!

          • DeusLoVult

            You’re shocked that most people don’t tell you to take off your clothes and lie on the floor, before you bow your head in prayer? Now I’M confused.

          • Grandmere

            Might I suggest he wear sack cloth and ashes?

          • DeusLoVult

            No, my lady. He would think that is overdressed. He seems to prefer loincloths.

          • Grandmere

            Oh. I see. He is from the Tarzan school.

          • DeusLoVult

            Yes, my lady. Only, he isn’t quite King of the Apes yet.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You two are cracking me up! I will have to admit, I have NEVER heard anyone talk about getting naked to get to God.

          • DeusLoVult

            It must be a new televangelist slogan, my lady.

            “Get naked! Get God!”

          • Julie LaBrecque

            What next – unbelievable.

          • DeusLoVult

            I jest, my lady…..but it could easily be true.

          • susan

            Lol. Me either. There’s lots about covering up our nakedness and demon possessed people running around naked…. He needs our prayers.

          • Joe M

            You need to track it back to the point where l advised a chap who was feeling spiritually unfilled to go into his bedroom in total privacy and pray to Father God, begging him to accept him, and to do that in all humility stark naked and prostrate on the floor. This advice to the chap has been noted by Stephen Dalton, who may be the person who l gave the advice to, but whether him or not, he thinks that it is scandalous and shocking, and obscene, and that l should be put in a mental hospital for daring to suggest it. I hope you don’t agree with him. I have told him that one is allowed to express their faith as long as it does not terrorise or harm someone else, but now l can see where one could be accused of scaring the horses and causing alarm to the public because of such advice.

            Of course, speaking about abortions and swearing and committing crimes for Allah and all the rest of the vile stuff is not perceived as criminal and madness that should incur locking up in prison or a mental hospital because fair maidens could faint in shock when reading it, but l, should be incarcerated for daring to speak about nakedness.

          • Stephen Dalton

            Walid and Ted are writing serious articles, you’re spouting foolishness that demands medical attention. Hey, Walid and Ted, Joe M also needs editorial attention too! I think it would be a dang good idea to delete this flake if Kelloge’s doesn’t recall him!

          • Joe M

            I write serious posts too! I hope that they will backtrack to the point where this thread line started with us, what l said and why l said it. It is you who is the fruit and nut case, chum! You are a big balloon and a green banana and you are in good need of a glass of wine this festive season in order to calm you down and make you jolly, just a little.

            Man, you have ate too many Brussel sprouts this Christmas, and no lady kissed you under the mistletoe, and clearly Santa didn’t leave you a present but stuck a sprig of holly up your jacksie instead!

          • Stephen Dalton

            Every nutcase, like you, thinks he’s sane, then the guys with the butterfly nets come, and take him where the nuts chase the squirrels!

          • Joe M

            Well, l have survived so far, so good!

            Let me inform you that l have on several occasions prostrated myself on the floor in private and prayed to God stark naked. I am sorry that you are shocked by this admission!

          • Stephen Dalton

            Your obsession with telling the other people here about praying in the nude simply shows me you’re a flaky nut that needs to be put back in the cereal box, and taken to a place where you can weave all the baskets you want to your heart’s content.

          • Joe M

            Gosh you are mad with rage, you flagged this up to Walid. Man you are sad!

          • Lidia

            Happy New Year Stephen!

          • Grandmere

            An ephod is NOT a loin cloth. Not even close. and his ephod did no fall off. She may have thought he was acting in a manner beneath his dignity as king, but he was not naked. Google “ephod” for a description and illustrations.

          • Joe M

            Ok, moving in the same direction. l noticed in a Roman Catholic Church when l was on holiday but l can’t remember where, a large depiction of a naked Jesus on the cross. I stood staring and l could hardly believe that this was depicted. I thought; ” they should have put a loin cloth over him”, they had even showed a penis on the depiction. As l pondered this, it occurred to me that it was likely to be a true depiction. I think it was in Roman Catholic Poland where l saw this depiction. Let’s put it this way it was not a depiction of the crucifixion displayed in a Protestant Church because we don’t have any!

            I am not a liar so please don’t call me one?

            By the way, l have a view of Australia, l think when l chat with you. I don’t know why?

        • Andrew Taylor

          Feelings, feelings, and more feelings. Sounds like you came across some crappy Protestant churches who failed to preach Christ crucified and risen for you. Shame on them. But shame on you for following your feelings.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Shame on you for believing false doctrines.

          • Why are you “shaming” him? Every other comment I see “shame on you” for this and “shame on you” for that and shame shame shame. You must have felt like shaming him, so should I say shame on you for following your feelings too? Naaaa. I will try to be kinder and gentler.

          • Julie

            He obviously didn’t follow his feelings when he became Catholic.

            Catholicism is about faith and reason.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Crucified Christ, let me get back to that at the end. Feelings? I as a protestant read 38 volumes of the church fathers over ten years. Let’s talk about the history of Christianity as taught by protestants. After acts there were small spirit filled churches, where the people studied the scriptures guided by the holy spirit and preached the gospel. With the death of the apostles, the Catholic wing became interested in power and turned the Christians into the Roman authorities to be arrested, tortured and fed to the lions, the Christians went underground to the catacombs where they worshiped. The Catholic wing became pagan, with the Roman state inviting them to be a arm of state control, this power was used to further erase Christianity. The remnant was
            saved when the Roman state collapsed and the Catholic church had to use their power on the local rulers to continue the eradication of millions and millions of Christians. This continued until Luther ripped off the mask of the Antichrist and freed Christianity. Christianity was restored to small spirit filled churches studying the scriptures guided by the holy spirit and preaching the gospel. Nice, but it is a lie from top to bottom and as the karate kid would say, from side to side.
            It is all a lie. Do you know Saint Augustine wrote 128 books. There is no proof in history that any of this protestant fairytale ever happened. The Christians killed by the Romans was Catholic, they smuggled the Eucharist in, Peter was in Rome for twenty five years, he was the bishop, we have his bones, we are careful of our history. The chapels in the catacombs has altars for the Eucharist, the oldest church in Antioch is Catholic with an altar. The history of the Catholic church is seemless. The sacrificial death of Catholic military chaplains is the seal of the faith for me, they are saints. Protestantism is like waking up to the woman who you love and you find out everything you know of her past is a lie, even her name is stolen from another woman. Christ talks about a house built on a rock and one built on sand. A protestant church preaching Christ crucified? There is the same chance of there being a Corpus Christi on the plain cross, that you would preach the crucified christ, you do the Risen Christ, not the punishment, but the reward.
            Do an experiment for me for the next four weeks, take a piece of paper write Christ to the left and Paul to the right. Every time your pastor preachs a sermon using Paul put a check mark and every time he preaches a sermon using only Christ put a mark next to his name, then compare if you preach Christ or Paul. Only God is worshiped on our knees. In protestantism where does the body of all of Christ’s words support Luther’s theories of salvation,for where does all of Christ’s words support Calvin’s theories of replacement theology. It’s all wrenched from a gnostic Paul, who you have made up. You know Paul is Catholic, we have his bones.
            The protestant believer stands for he is worshiped and celebrated, for he is saved. I hear the bible read completely every three years and taught. I don’t have the holy spirit, it is only necessary for the church to have it. Liturgy and the Eucharist as far as we can go back. In protestantism for 32 years I heard only a gnostic Paul, Christ is not the theologian, but Paul is.
            The bible is a Greek book not a translated get out of jail english verse. The king james is like the Soviet writing of a two man race where the American wins and Soviet is second. The report reads the Soviet comes in second and the American second to last. By the way theology means the study of the mind of God by using reason, not how to preach a good sermon. The Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ and wonderbread is wonderbread and the devil knows the difference. The Church fathers warned against people who do not take the Eucharist. They also warned of liars and those who bear false witness. 2+2=4.

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            Amen Tom! Perfectly stated.

        • mikifenn

          Why can’t Catholics understand that mainline Protestant Churches and non-Catholics are not the same thing? Many mainline Protestant church are spiritually dead? I just read that 60% of Methodist pastors do not believe in the Virgin Birth, miracles or the Resurrection. Lutheran pastors are also high on the list. Many other mainline Protestants do not believe either.. The list I read also said some Catholic priest do not believe in the Virgin Birth, miracles of the Resurrection either.
          If you went to some of these Protestant churches then, I agree, you would not feel the presence of the Lord.
          Not all non-Catholics churches are like that. It is time for Catholics to stop their verbal attacks on non-Catholic Christians. These attacks are not good for the work Walid is doing because when non-Catholic Christians read the false criticism they get from many of those who make comments, they stop contributing to “Rescue Christians,” they stop buying Walid’s books and other materials and they tell others about the insulting things they read. Then they stop visiting Walid’s website.
          Calling all non-Catholics “Protestants” is wrong. Evangelicals do not consider themselves Protestants. If there is genuine heresy in a non-Catholic Church and it is reported accurately, there’s nothing wrong with doing so. However, insulting non-Catholics who visit this website is doing great harm to those who admire Walid’s work. I don’t think a radical Moslem with a rusty knife who is ready to cut your head off cares whether you are a Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, Buddhist, Hindu or anything else.
          My suggestion is that those of you who are antagonist toward those you call Protestant is to for you to set aside your differences and join together to help suffering Christians worldwide.

          • Julie

            We are witnessing a Great Apostasy. So the Lord is giving us now Islam to bring us back to Him.

          • Grandmere

            Many “protestants” who come here are looking for deeper meaning of the faith that they now hold in part. There is a fine line to walk when dealing with them.

          • mikifenn

            Grandmere Are you aware that Evangelical churches have a large number of former Catholics? Some of the Central American immigrants say they left the Catholics and affiliated with the Evangelicals because they said they felt closer to God in an Evangelical Church.
            While this page is filled with negative comments about “protestants,” I hear many negative comments about the Catholic Church from people who leave the Catholics and join the Evangelicals. I’ve never heard negative comments about Catholics from any of my pastors. Many people on this site are obsessed with trashing non-Catholics. My assessment is that there are many insecure Catholics and to convince themselves that they are content, they attack others.
            One of the regular people who comments here seems to be filled with anger that borders on rage. Her rage and anger comes out in vitriol to others. I pray that the peace and joy of the Lord fills her heart so there is no room left for the anger and rage that her words exude. Highly critical people are not happy people
            There is a statement that sums up many negative comments I read here about “protestants.” We see in others the faults we have ourselves.”

          • Grandmere

            Miki, I am Anglican so I catch it from both sides. My Catholic and Orthodox friends here know me as Anglo-Catholic and we treat each other with respect. There are a lot of non denominational Christians here that have put in the study time to know better than to falsely accuse a Catholic, Orthodox or even Anglican on the basis of our beliefs on apostolic succession, the Eucharist, the communion of saints or the blessed virgin Mary. On the other hand we have some who come here barking and salivating like so many Pavlovian dogs when the subject is about Catholics, the Pope, or heresy. Many times they don’t even read the article. Just come in with guns blazing. Yes, we get extremely angry when someone disrespects the mother of our Lord. Yes we push back when they disrespect the Eucharist, not discerning the body and blood of our savior, Jesus Christ. I waited for months before commenting here so I would get to know people. So I may be a mutt, but I’m their mutt and they love me.

          • mikifenn

            Personally, I think this Holy War I see here is senseless. Why insult one another’s Christian beliefs? We disagree on some issues, but why magnify them? When I’m on I see more negative remarks directed toward non-Catholics than I do Catholics. Christ said because of him we would face persecution, but why should Catholics and non-Catholics persecute each other with critical words? The reason there are so many denominations world wide is because there are many interpretations of often the same verse. One person sees it one way; another person sees it differently. Christ will sort these differences out when he returns. We may all be surprised at his return when he gives us his interpretation.

          • A.T. Srofe

            Well said.

          • colin

            deluded

          • colin

            The man who arranges this site is also antagonist toward those he would call Protestant..

            Ever since I’ve been on here all I have seen is sarcasm; name calling and ridicule…

          • Never knew that antagonism against Luther who wrote The Jews and Their Lies is antagonism against you.

          • colin

            Blinkered – you only think about this thread; while I mean from the moment I signed onto discus and started commenting on this site.

        • susan

          True! Except for when Paul says to confess your sins to one another. ;). Then it’s NOT Paul, Paul, Paul.

    • Owen Schumacher

      You know, Tom, if we’re in the image and likeness of God, that sounds a lot like we humans are actually walking idols. Maybe Calvinists and Muslims, the iconoclasts that they are, have every right to destroy all humanity—like we were statues of the saints and the Virgin Mary. 😉

      Of course I’m being facetious, but my point is that even man himself is an icon of God. Icons are beautiful and should be destroyed as much as they should be worshiped, which is to say not at all.

      • Tom_mcewen

        Yes the church holds that Christ is the living icon.

      • theophorus

        Beware iconoclasts in all their forms, for if they destroy icons soon enough they will attack the very image of God. You.

        • Julie

          Sorry…you are the one who doesn’t know your own self in God.

          It is through our free will and intellect that we are made in His image.

          • Julie, theophorus is on our side, just mocking the silliness of iconoclasm. Orthodox teaching is that all mankind are icons of the Living God, just slightly lower because of sin, but able to reach Theosis through faith and works.

          • Julie

            Yes….got him mixed up with another…will apologize. Hope to return to the Greek church this pm for vespers.

          • Julie

            Apologized.

          • Awesome.

        • Julie

          Sorry more….didn’t get the drift. See now what you are trying to say and also read your other posts.

      • Julie

        You need to get a catechism….to clarify….that we are made in His image by free will and intellect, not icons.

        • Ah. The issue is the word. Ikon is literally ‘image’.

          • Julie

            Thanks, and I was addressing their concept of Catholic ‘idols’…

    • colin

      Sola fide

      Clement of Rome 30-100

      And we [Christians], too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

      Justin Martyr 165

      in his Dialogue with Trypho: “No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer . . . are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account.

      Didymus the Blind 313-398

      a person is saved by grace, not by works but by faith. There should be no doubt but that faith saves and then lives by doing its own works, so that the works which are added to salvation by faith are not those of the law but a different kind of thing altogether

      Hilary of Poitiers 315-67

      Wages cannot be considered as a gift, because they are due to work, but God has given free grace to all men by the justification of faith

      Basil of Caesarea 329-379

      Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is (or has been) justified solely by faith in Christ.

      Ambrose 339-97

      Therefore let no one boast of his works, because no one can be justified by his works; but he who is just receives it as a gift, because he is justified by the washing of regeneration. It is faith, therefore, which delivers us by the blood of Christ, because blessed is he whose sins are forgiven, and to whom pardon is granted.

      Jerome 347-420

      “God justifies by faith alone.” (Deus ex sola fide justificat)

      Chrysostom 349-407

      For Scripture says that faith has saved us. Put better: Since God willed it, faith has saved us. Now in what case, tell me, does faith save without itself doing anything at all? Faith’s workings themselves are a gift of God, lest anyone should boast. What then is Paul saying? Not that God has forbidden works but that he has forbidden us to be justified by works. No one, Paul says, is justified by works, precisely in order that the grace and benevolence of God may become apparent.

      Augustine 354-430

      If Abraham was not justified by works, how was he justified? … Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Rom. 4:3; Gen. 15:6). Abraham, then, was justified by faith. Paul and James do not contradict each other: good works follow justification.

      Although it can be said that God’s commandments pertain to faith alone, if it is not dead [faith], but rather understood as that live faith, which works through love.

      When someone believes in him who justifies the impious, that faith is reckoned as justice to the believer, as David too declares that person blessed whom God has accepted and endowed with righteousness, independently of any righteous actions (Rom 4:5-6). What righteousness is this? The righteousness of faith, preceded by no good works, but with good works as its consequence

      Ambrosiaster 4th century

      They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.”

      Cyril of Alexandria 412-444

      For we are justified by faith, not by works of the law, as Scripture says (Gal. 2:16). By faith in whom, then, are we justified? Is it not in him who suffered death according to the flesh for our sake? Is it not in one Lord Jesus Christ?

      Thomas Aquinas

      Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone, Rom 3:28: We consider a human being to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.

      • Oh not that faith alone arguments, boring. Can you come up with a more exciting argument? No Christian believes we are “justified by works”.

      • Julie

        You are totally bypassing the lives of the saints who lived in those times and canonized by the popes of times long past.

        None of us claim anything of ourselves..it is Christ alone Who works through us….through Word and Sacrament we become Christ’s heart, hands feet…in service to relieve suffering and bring the Good News.

        You are reading passages we read today. Nothing new. But you are reading them with a half deck.

      • You really think people here don’t read Scripture, do you?

    • mikifenn

      All non Catholics do not believe as did Martin Luther. Only a few.

  • I am sure even more heads are going to explode after reading this.

    It actually makes me angry when I hear Christians preaching hatred from the pulpits regarding the nation of Israel, even within the comment section! Then to add insults to injury, these same preachers openly preaches that Islam and Christianity are sister faith, and as such, we worship the same God!

    NO WE DO NOT! Those who argue using the linguistic approach tries to tell me that “allah” is simply another name of God do not realize they commit the error of making God both good and evil, a heresy that have been condemned by the early church councils. I will trust their wisdom in their judgment before I will trust 21st century linguist who made the same error as the early heretics did.

    I have said it before and I shall say it again, what is old heresies are being recycled, reused, and repackaged again under a shining new wrapping paper, but once examined closely, it falls apart to the same old heresies that the early church fathers fought against.

    As a wise king once wrote, “There’s absolutely nothing new under the sun.”

    • Стефан Евгений

      Trevor, a educated Orthodox on the Church Fathers, knows who allah is.

      John of Damascus writing in the 730s A.D. (and therefore nearly a century after the initial conquest) notes:
      “They [Muslims] call us associators (hetairiastas) because, they say, we introduce to God an associate by saying Christ is the Son of God and God. To them we say that the prophets and the scripture have transmitted this, and you, as you affirm, accept the prophets …
      Again we say to them: “How, when you say that Christ is the Word and Spirit of God, do you revile us as associators? For the Word and the Spirit are inseparable … So we call you mutilators (koptas) of God … They misrepresent us as idolaters because we prostrate ourselves before the cross, which they loathe.
      And we say to them: “Why then do you rub yourselves on a stone at your Ka’ba (Chabatha) and hail the stone with fond kisses?” … This, then, which they call “stone,” is the head of Aphrodite, whom they used to worship and whom they call Chabar.”

      It is none other than the old gods rehashed in to a male, Diana

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_(mythology)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte

      • OrthodoxKGC2015

        Yep, Allah was once Allat, the same as Aphrodite, Venus, or Diana of the Ephesians, Artemis, Ishtar, Inanna, Isis….

      • My dear brother, I know that, and I have referred to St. John of Damascus writing many time in my argument against those who claim that Allah and our God are the same.

        • Стефан Евгений

          I know that you know it, but it does not hurt repeating it. may be it will sink in to the others.

          • The problem, as I have already stated, are those who try to use the linguistic argument and completely ignore the theological argument.

            For example, one tried to tell me how “Allah” is simply another name for God. So I took him up on it by quoting a verse from the Koran where it boasts of Allah of being the best deceiver and then quoted from Revelation that Satan was the one who deceives the whole world. Well, the linguist exploded at me and said no serious linguists would make the argument I have made. Again, he is trying to use language instead of theology approach.

            That is exactly what St. John of Damascus have done in his critique of Islam.

    • Michael Powell

      How can God be outside time and his creation and not be both the Author and Finisher of it ALL? Both Good, and allowing for Evil. Not that he picks sides; he simply IS.

      All of it, both Good and Evil, is intended to either call us closer to himself, or drive us closer to himself.

      • Oh really?

        Let me consult James and see what he has to say:

        Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. James 1:12-15

        Hmm.

        • Michael Powell

          My victory chapter is Romans 8; it ALL works for my good. ALL meaning ALL.

          • That passage is talking about Christians who endure hardships, wrestling against the flesh, exactly as James is talking about in the verses I mentioned, and how those wrestle we must endure as believers, for even Christ was tempted, was abused, we being in Christ will endure the same.

            It is a daily, even a minute choice we all must make in order to become more and more like Christ.

            In the end, Satan who is the accuser of the brethren, the one who wreak havoc in the life of the believers, will ultimately be defeated. In the meantime, we must strive daily to battle the flesh, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life for those are of the world, and those who are of the world do not know God.

          • Michael Powell

            Are you suggesting Satan, too, is not a created being?

          • Um, Satan is created. And it was Satan who rebelled against God.

          • Michael Powell

            So by definition, God may not have written evil, per se, but he allowed for it in his creation. I enjoy reading C.S. Lewis on this and related topics all the time.

          • You are definitely trying to trip me up.

            James said that God cannot tempt anyone, for He does not even tempt Himself. Since Satan was the first to rebel against God because of his pride and his beauty corrupted him, and because he wanted to make himself equal and even higher than God, which is what the Antichrist will do when he comes, God cast him out of his presence. This can be found in passages in places like Isaiah and Ezekiel.

            God also said He does not share His glory with anyone, and Satan tried to steal that glory, repeatedly. In Christ’s temptation, Satan promised the kingdom of this world if Christ would fall down and worship Satan, but thank God, Jesus being God in the flesh resisted the devil. Again, Satan will give his kingdom to the coming Antichrist, per Revelation 13 and Daniel 7, because the Antichrist will, unknowingly (or perhaps knowingly), worship Satan and advance his kingdom through deception, treachery, and warfare, exactly what we are seeing happening daily in the news.

            In the end, those who know God, those who know Christ, will remain strong and steadfast through the faith, being tried, being tempted, being tortured, killed, will be purified and made white and given crowns at Christ’s 2nd Coming in which He will destroy the Antichrist and those who worship the beast by wearing his mark, and those who reject Christ. Christ will win in the end and so will those who remain stubbornly steadfast in faith.

          • Michael Powell

            Reasoning. It’s a God-given attribute.

          • Grandmere

            You can wipe that Shiite eating smile off your face now.

          • Michael Powell

            I don’t know what you are implying.

          • Grandmere

            As I am wearing my Mona Lisa smile, I say, “Yes, you do.”

          • Michael Powell

            It brings me no pleasure to correct you. You would be wrong.

          • Grandmere

            Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

          • Michael Powell

            Ha ha, I’m sure there’s wisdom in that. Some things I’d like to be wrong about, trust me on that one.

          • Grandmere

            There ya go, Michael. I’m not all bad.

    • Joe M

      True, l agree!

  • rodolfo

    This article answer my question why germany welcomes them and also the lutherized countries.

    • mikifenn

      Lutherans are now receiving federal money–lots of it–to resettle Muslim refugees.
      I’ve read that Luther preached a highly inflammatory sermon against Jews one Sunday morning and before the week was over he died. Does anyone know if this is true?
      Luther has also been quoted as saying to husbands whose wives died in childbirth not to get too upset over the death of their wives because, “that is what women are for>”

    • Julie

      Also those within the Church who attended Vatican II to undermine the tradition of faith came from Germany…and it is in Germany in a certain diocese….where almost half the clergy do not have the Catholic faith, and cardinals from Germany the ones who thought themselves superior to the African church leaders…who upheld the sanctity of marriage as we know it.

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    Modern day Protestants can at least return to being followers of Luther.

    Many, if not most, of today’s Protestants have removed themselves so far from their Catholic roots that they deny everything sacred about the Blessed Virgin Mary, something which Luther never did.

    May God forgive all those who blaspheme the Holy Mother of God by attacking Her purity and perpetual virginity.

    It seems the further away from Luther modern day Protestants are, the further they are from the teachings of the early Church.

    • AnthonyM

      It’s the slippery slope syndrome. One step down leads to another, until everything is lost.
      But as long as someone is alive, there is hope.

  • Stephen Dalton

    I’m a former Lutheran, and everything you say about Luther is true. The sad thing is the average Lutheran doesn’t know the real Luther. The various Lutheran synods present a extremely sanitized Luther who bears no resemblance to the historical one. I only discovered the real Luther when I started reading histories that were not written or published by Lutherans. BTW, I’m convinced Luther was mentally ill. He had hallucinations about seeing the devil, or animals like black dogs that would talk to him about Scripture. He also had an obsession with filth that was clearly pathological. Not a sign of a healthy mind, IMHO!

    • Стефан Евгений

      Strange, mohamid had the same problem with black dogs.

      • Stephen Dalton

        Steve, Luther probably got his black dog from Mohammed’s litter!

        • Стефан Евгений

          LOL Luther and Mohammed saw demons in black dogs.may have had the same demon.

    • theophorus

      he was obsessed with his bowel movements wasn’t he?

      • Catbr

        Maybe he had a bowel disease like irrirtable bowel syndrome or something similar. Or maybe seeing devils and black dogs talking scared the crap out of him. Just kidding. lol.

        • Stephen Dalton

          Luther suffered from many health problems throughout his life, including problems excreting waste. His mental health problems probably made these conditions worse.

          • Julie

            My instructor on ecumenism was himself part of the congregation at Vatican II….and said beginning in class, ‘Luther was a very scrupulous person’….scruples being the first step into insanity.

          • Julie

            Stephen, I used to attend a Lutheran church, Missouri Synod and liked the people there very much…came with some one I was working for.

            I was remembering this morning how the youth minister brought a wind up toy of Luther for the children to see…how many know of these things of Luther? I read his followers had to expunge some of his writings.

        • Julie

          He got his inspiration on the toilet…and it is on display in Worms, Germany.

          • Catbr

            Weird.

          • Julie

            This is the first time I posted this, read it some time ago and this article is coming forward with some of his writings. His followers had to expunge alot.

            They keep deflecting as Walid points out. I find Protestantism not only negating but reactionary and deflecting.

      • Stephen Dalton

        He was obsessed with feces period! As Sir Thomas More said of Luther, “Luther vomits s–t”.

    • Catbr

      Maybe these hallucinations about the devil and black dogs were real and indications of demonic possession. I have heard that priests have to make the distinction between mental illness and demonic possession when they are called to do an exorcism.

      • Stephen Dalton

        With Luther, it was probably a mixture of both. People who have studied Luther’s life in depth have come to the conclusion the man, if mental illness was the sole reason for his behaviors, was probably bipolar or had narcissistic personality disorder. Whatever the explanation, this poor man should have been put in a padded cell, rather than a monk’s cell.

        • Julie

          It also suggests why the theologian who had jurisdiction over him refused to speak to him.

        • Catbr

          Yes. So how could people knowing that he was mentally disturbed take anything he said seriously? Or how can people even today take anything he said seriously? The protestant religion is based on the ramblings of a mental case.

      • Julie

        A retired Sepulcian, those priests who train seminarians to become priests, told me that scruples is the first step into mental illness. His parents were over the top in discipline….but now I wonder if it was because of his own temperment, independent of them.

  • Ricardo Hotatio

    Surely people who take either Luther or pope Francis seriously do not have any spiritual discernment and are obviously not led by His Spirit. Luckily we are not living in the dark-ages anymore, all it takes is His anointing which enlightens His Scriptures.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/pope-francis-holds-interfaith-service-911-memorial-34041601

    • Grandmere

      This is how we got to thousands of Christian denominations. Each interpreting the scriptures in their own way. Each believing they have it right and everybody else has it wrong. And, by the way, the Holy Spirit was not sleeping during the “dark ages”.

      • Ricardo Hotatio

        Believers should be led by the Spirit of God, I can’t put my trust in any leadership which is not led by the Spirit and that certainly applies to the Vatican as a religious institute that violates the scriptures in many areas, which does not btw validate the shortcomings of the protestant Church. The reformation was a starting point for true biblical restoration of Christian values which can not be completed without the Spirit of God.

        • Stephen Dalton

          The only problem with to Reformation as a “starting point” is that it never left the starting line, and will never make the finish line. The Protestant churches disagreed on doctrines from the very start, and haven’t gotten their acts together since. There’s far more hope for a Orthodox-Catholic Reunion for as I understand it, we have apostolic succession and teaching. If the Spirit of God is going to restore Christian values and unity, it will be working with the Catholics and the Orthodox, not the heretical sects that deny Apostolic succession and teaching.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            The problem with the Vatican is they don’t comprehend the basics of John 3.

          • Grandmere

            But now, seven other denominations will say you have it wrong and they alone have it right. Should we trust your interpretation or one of the other seven? See how absurd it gets.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            You can be a Christian within any ‘denomination’ as long as you have the inner witness of His Spirit. And how do you know His Spirit is in you, if you experience His power which is able to sanctify your life.

            Rom. 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

            1Cor. 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

            1Th. 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

            2Th. 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

            1Pet. 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood

            Or:

            2 Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Your theory is already blown to pieces – Romans 15:16. See if the Holy Spirit might help you ‘understand’ this verse.
            clue #1 – get a proper translation.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            What are you trying to say !? Which theory !?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            ” You can be a Christian without any denomination.” If you truly had the Holy Spirit in you, why do you have erroneous interpretations of the scriptures inspired by the Holy Spirit? You want NO Church to alleviate your guilt – which modern protestants call ‘freedom in Christ’ – you are not free to start your own church or to be your own church. Christ built ONE Church, and you are to obey it.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            First, you can’t proof me wrong based on scripture. Second, I won’t submit to a subverted form of religion.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Prelest…. you are in, http://orthodoxwiki.org/Prelest

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            Yoda, you sound like. And right you are. Prelest heretics abuse the Holy Spirit and scripture to advance their sick evil and twisted agendas. These supposed Pentecostals often do that. Too bad the warning is clear yet they will not see.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Like Father said, better be buried in asbestos underwear.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Any arguments?

          • Стефан Евгений

            What;s the problem. cant comprehend Prelest?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Using an empty term without any arguments, pointless.

          • Стефан Евгений

            You are a puffed up dumb Ivan, with a head full of kasha.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

          • Grandmere

            And you are a shining example of that, right?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            In a limited degree. And surely I am being provoked through stunning nonsense.

          • Grandmere

            Oh no you don’t! You are the one who came in here with a chip on your shoulder with the intent to provoke others. You can’t weasel out of it now.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            At the same time this article was another ruthless attack on a large part of Christianity while fully ignoring the disturbing spiritual condition of the RC church itself.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Richie is like the burglar that blames the guard dog for the hole in his britches.

          • Стефан Евгений

            “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” (Matthew 7:6)

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Yes I can – and scripture is not the final word – the Church is (1 Tim 3:15). Peter was given the KEYS to the Kingdom – Jesus made Peter the Royal STEWARD of the Kingdom – Matt 16:18-19, see Isaiah 22:20-25 for context.
            The CHURCH is to settle disputes (Matt 18:17-18); Oral confession of sins to the Priests (John 20:21-23). Penance is administered by the CHURCH for sins (1 Cor 5:2-5), and sinner readmitted only AFTER this penance has been served (2 Cor 2:6-10); The CHURCH has STEWARDS OF THE MYSTERIES OF GOD, 1 Cor 4:1- the ‘mysteries’ are the sacraments; the CHURCH has Liturgical Ministers, Priests,that offer the sacrifice of the Mass, Romans 15:16, Malachi 1:11, 1 Cor 10, 1 Cor 11, Rev 3:20
            You have submitted yourself to a subverted form of religion – Luther was the first to subvert it; you follow Luther and make your own.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            A Church only has authority if she is led by the Spirit and has not altered the Word of God and this is what went wrong throughout the ages within institutionalized religion.

            2 Tim 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

            Jesus in Mark 7:9 And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

          • Grandmere

            Who was Jesus talking to in Mark?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            The institutionalized church of His day, nothing has changed.

          • Grandmere

            Wrong. He was talking to the Jews. This was before his passion, death and resurrection. The Church had not been established yet. The Holy Spirit had not come yet.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            The words of Christ are not only significant for His own generation but also for all those generations until now.

          • Ka-boom.

          • Julie

            That is your personal opinion but does not hold up to reality.

            It is Christ Who is the cornerstone and He doesn’t place His cornerstone on individuals because they cannot.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            3 – Another clueless remark.

          • Julie

            The cornerstone of Christ is meant for the building of the Church, not some self isolating individual with two legs that can collapse any day.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            ONE and ONLY ONE Church has the authority – the ONE that Christ founded – the one you LEFT – The Catholic Church – you don’t have a clue Richie – you have NO KEYS – and neither does your self-appointed pastor.
            “I will be with YOU until the End of the Age” – THERE – Enough Said – may all heretical sects see their grievous error.

          • Julie

            I would wonder where you are when you are alone with no one on your death bed…I wish no harm….but to die outside the Church and community is sad.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            4 – Another clueless remark.

          • Julie

            Indicates I am speaking in the truth.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Lead by the spirit? The apostles had crowns of fire a mighty wind and all that Christ did was called to remembrance (in the greek sense). Richard is what you see in your leaders lead by the spirit? If you believe that Protestantism is lead by the Holy Spirit then there should be proof, there is none, zero nula, zip.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I can not think of any greater contradiction in clear guidance between Peter and most popes.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Your answer has no collation to the question; it is like I asked what is 2+2 and you answered Green.

          • Grandmere

            SNAP

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Elsewhere I said: I am not a protestant, I am a pentecostal, but I suppose you don’t get the difference. A lack of unity is not a real issue within the pentecostal sphere.I agree that many protestants are divided because their faith is not based on spiritual enlightenment but on human understanding. (John 6:63)
            But as a former catholic myself, I also see hardly any evidence of those scriptures being evident within the catholic world which would confirm that people are actually led by the Spirit, which is the hallmark of true Christianity. (Romans 8:14)

            As for leadership: I am a leader, at the same time I am under leadership as a confident of the pastor. It is one of the foremost precaution measures you should take as a Christian: Make sure your leaders are led by the Spirit and of course as a leader myself responsible for the wellbeing of others I must fully depend on Him through His Spirit living in my body, which is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

            1Cor. 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

          • Tom_mcewen

            A dog is a dog if it white or brown is stillba dog. A Pentecostal is just a different type of protestant dog.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I don’t mind to be another ‘dog’ as long as I enjoy my salvation and freedom in Christ and am able to avoid the pitfalls of men controlled religion.

          • Grandmere
          • Ricardo Hotatio

            You actually think you are funny?

          • Grandmere

            No. I absolutely know that I am.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            You can’t help yourself.

          • Grandmere

            You are correct for $1000. Pick another category.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            ROFL

          • Стефан Евгений

            LOL:)

          • Grandmere
          • Стефан Евгений

            Thanks Grandmere, you got my Westies going.:)

          • Grandmere

            Now that, right there, is funny! I can hear the little high pitched yip, yip, yowwwww right now!

          • Стефан Евгений

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/014d0a4ed2410b2381c56608f8923253bd803da59cbde0a7fe14a8261f734d12.jpg
            When people ring my bell, they think i have a really big dog. Beauchamp and Bonnie think so.

          • DeusLoVult

            I’ll have to take some pictures of my Ovcharkas and send them to you. )

          • Стефан Евгений

            I would take them to the Anglican Church were I worked, so they could kill the rats as i worked on the altar.

          • Grandmere

            One more reason I like you so much. I had a Cairn once. I was mad about her.

          • Стефан Евгений

            A really huge rat went right between my feet. After that they went with me , even the altar. but the Priest did not know. he had a stick up his bum.

          • Grandmere

            The Dean of the cathedral brings his lab to work every day.

          • DeusLoVult

            Here ya are, Rusky. The short haired one is the female, and the other is the male. One has my hand next to his massive paw. 🙂
            The male is named Theofilakt, and the female is Galina. It was hard to get a good picture of the male…he’s camera shy. 🙂

          • Grandmere

            Where is the pic?

          • DeusLoVult

            You’ll probably have to reload the page, my lady. There’s four of ’em. 🙂

          • Grandmere

            Nice. Love the hand selfie. Now send me one of your young, unwrinkled face. Make an old woman happy. You have my mail.

          • Стефан Евгений

            My Papa would love them. Do they have a job? like do you use them for what they are for. Really lovely dogs, bet they are not pennycostals lol:)

          • DeusLoVult

            That is a problem…..but we are working on that. I’m going to move the male into my room at night. Make him my guard dog. And let him make patrols. 🙂 The female is a sweetheart….she doesn’t seem to want to do anything but play…and sleep. 🙂 But I can give her a similar job.

          • Grandmere

            Makes me want to lie on the floor and howl with them. Don’t video it though. Someone might take me for a pentecostal

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You and your sect have made ‘another’ church – please show me with SCRIPTURE where this is allowed.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I enjoy the freedom not to be part of an apostate church.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            But you are part of an apostate church.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            This is our experience:

            Eph. 2:22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

            This is my wish as a blessing for you and your fellow believers for 2016:

            Rom. 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

          • Grandmere

            Oooh. Two snaps up in a circle!

          • Grandmere

            He’s enjoying his freedom. The key words – HIS freedom.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Gal. 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

          • Julie

            You are outside the Church, you are protestant.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            2 – Another clueless remark.

          • Julie

            You don’t know any popes….so you are groundless in your observation.

            Peter is the primary apostle but he was not pope, but founder. Those who succeeded him were bishops that evolved into the papacy — as the universal church grew.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I know the popes of the last 5 decades.

          • Julie

            You are not following Scripture. St Peter forbade us to follow our own personal interpretation and both he and Paul said we are to follow their teachings and the traditions they gave us…

            Because Christ established one Church through Peter and the apostles.

            We are not lone rangers.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            5 – Another clueless remark.

          • Julie

            You already have professed in believing in no church.

            I would say this remark of yours is clueless…rather spiritual blindness.

          • Julie

            Then explain why so many protestants cannot even listen to a witness under one roof, including yourself? I am not talking about being in a Catholic parish, I am talking about all the churches down the streets of America and in spite of the true Holy Spirit witness, which they all affirm to believe in, none of them show up under the same roof.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I am getting so tired of this: I am NOT a protestant.

          • Julie

            You are a protestant because you protest and negate Christ’s Church and don’t get it– we always have chaff with the wheat.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Indeed I do reject the apostate condition of the RC church, at the same time I do recognize the reformation was only a partly restoration of the authority of the Word of God which should be joined with our submission to the authority of Gods Spirit within the Church and that is the foundation of the pentecostal Church which started at the day of pentecost. A Church can only be the Church of God through the Authority of the Holy Spirit who is still knocking at the doors of many churches.

          • Stephen Dalton

            We Catholics understand those scriptures quite well. You Protestants are divided on what they mean.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I fear you confuse understanding with being in agreement. I am not a protestant, I am a pentecostal, but I suppose you don’t get the difference. A lack of unity is not a real issue within the pentecostal sphere.
            I agree that many protestants are divided because their faith is not based on spiritual enlightenment but on human understanding. (John 6:63)
            But as a former catholic myself, I also see hardly any evidence of those scriptures being evident within the catholic world which would confirm that people are actually led by the Spirit, which is the hallmark of true Christianity. (Romans 8:14)
            If your claim was correct I would not being disputed that vehemently without any sound arguments in this discussion, which comes from a carnal mind and proves my point.

            Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

          • Stephen Dalton

            You’re a former Catholic turned Pentecostal? Sheesh, talk about being confused! When I left the cult I was in 30yrs. ago, I spent some time with them. I was not impressed with the lack of logic they displayed. Performing rituals that numb the mind’s ability to reason and think can do that to you. And the haphazard way you throw Scriptures together shows you lack critical thinking skills. And your claim you’re not a Protestant is bullfeathers! If you believe in the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith alone, you’re a Protestant. Luther himself said this is the doctrine the church (Protestant) stands or falls on.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Man, you do not even have the proper knowledge to use scriptures to prove your point, let alone any understanding or enlightenment about the importance of His Spirit in the life of the believer. And yes I do believe I am saved by grace being made evident through works which are inspired by Him.

            Eph. 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

          • Stephen Dalton

            Yes, to hyper-enlightened folks like you, we never have “the proper knowledge”. Sorry, but the Catholic faith has nearly 2000 yrs. of real “proper knowledge” to back up all it’s claims. All you have is the pottage of Protestant confusion of the last 500 yrs. Return to the Catholic faith for true “proper knowledge” before you get even more confused.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            The RC church today is not even a faint shadow of the New Testament Church.

          • Stephen Dalton

            The RCC is the Christian Church of history, you just don’t know or have forgotten that history.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Christianity is defined in the scriptures and nothing else. Church history is a history of spiritual decay, but God will restore a remnant.

          • Stephen Dalton

            You are totally disconnected from reality. Yes the church is defined in the Scriptures, but what church is it? It’s the Catholic Church. Nothing remotely resembling your Protestantism or Pentecostalism appears in church history until 1517 and the early 20th century. Like I’ve already said, you have forgotten this. Your religion is man-made, ours is God-made.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            The ‘Church’ of before 1517 was in complete disarray already. Go back to the real roots based on the scriptures and the much needed anointing of His Spirit.

          • Julie

            You are speaking of primarily Germany, to a lesser degree England…

            It was German Catholics of the Rheinland and Danube who opposed the pope and bishops and slaughtered 2000 Jews….it is a bad place…now it is being filled with Muslims.

          • Julie

            It is there. You just don’t know early church history.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            It is dead and almost buried here in Europa.

          • Julie

            You are standing on shakey ground…because you are basing Christianity just on yourself. Me and my shadow…

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            If you did have His Spirit you would continue sprouting your nonsense.

          • Julie

            We do.

        • theophorus

          Everyone has a pope. Whether it’s the actual pope, their pastor or themselves.

          Question. If the Spirit of God is the same for all, why don’t all interpret every scripture in the same way?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            There should be agreement about major issues, there can be disagreement about minor issues. My experience is, anywhere where I meet ‘new Christians’, that if they are truly born again I immediately discern/recognize it in my spirit and there is a bond in the spirit independent from the Christian background.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Who decides what the ”major’ issues are – YOU?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Any Christian has the personal responsibility to be able to determine if he is saved.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            So now you are God? No one knows if they are saved until you die – all will appear at the judgment seat of Christ, and will receive GOOD OR EVIL based on WHAT you have done.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            This is a work of the Spirit, and he does confirm it as well.

            Rom. 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

            Too difficult to understand !? Unless you don’t know Him. : John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

          • theophorus

            Since you interpret scripture with the aid of the Spirit, tell me. How do you read John 6. Especially “Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.”

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Bread and wine are the tokens of the New Covenant.

          • Julie

            Melchizdek who in contrast to other ancient priests, instead brought forth gifts of bread and wine and foretold of the perpetual and perfect sacrifice.

            You need to sacrifice your self will and your way of looking at things…’my way or the highway’…is not Christian.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Then all you have is a token covenant.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Christ is our Covenant

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Hear this:
            Colossians 1:24 “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your
            sake, and in my flesh I am filing up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the Church.”
            2 Timothy 4:6-7 “For I am already being poured out like a libation, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have competed well; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith.”
            Philippians 1:29-30 “For to you it has been granted, for the sake of Christ, not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him. Yours is the same struggle as you saw in me and now
            hear about me.” 2 Timothy 2:12 ‘If we suffer, we shall also reign with him…”

            1 Corinthians 9:27 “but I pommel my body and enslave it, so
            that after proclaiming to others, I myself might not be disqualified.”

            2 Corinthians 12:7 “..Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I
            begged the Lord about this, that it might leave me, but he said to me ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.’…Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.”
            1 Peter 4:13

            “ But rejoice to the extent that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that when his glory is revealed you may also
            rejoice exultantly.”

            Romans 8:17
            “ and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.”

            1 Corinthians 11:30-32
            “For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment;
            but since we are judged by the Lord, are being disciplined we so that we may not be condemned along with the world.”

            1 Peter 4:18-19 “And if the righteous one is barely saved, where will the godless and the sinner appear? As a result, those who suffer in accord with God’s will , commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.”

            Acts 14:22 “We must through much tribulation enter the
            Kingdom of God.”

            Hebrews 11:35 “Women received back their dead through resurrection. Some were tortured and would not accept deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection.” (from
            2 Maccabees 7:7)

            Hebrews 12:5-6 “…My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord or lose heart when reproved by him; for whom
            the Lord loves, he chastens, and scourges every son he acknowledges. If you endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are partakes, then you are bastards and not sons.”
            These verses blow protestant theology out of the water.

          • Grandmere

            Dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            1Cor. 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. And – Hebrews 10:19 Therefore, brothers,[a] since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Really? I thought it was up to God, the solvereign judge. You can determine if you are saved? You are mad, Sir.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            As usual no arguments:

            Matt. 22:29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. Because: – 1Cor. 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. And – Hebrews 10:19 Therefore, brothers,[a] since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Quoting someone’s else words is not an argument either, it is mindless, since you believe I am a prisoner of your thought processes and think what you think. Well I don’t think like you, but I do think you are mad for putting your self in place of God’s judgement. Quoting scripture is not an original thought, it is not thought at all.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            It is all about actually knowing the truth which is contained in the scriptures and knowing Christ as our personal savior and redeemer and Lord.

            John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
            John 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

            The actual application of this essential truth which comes through Christ: John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

          • Julie

            You withdraw from the sacraments, which are concrete and Christ’s ministries to us that bring us eternal life and down to your level…that cannot save.

          • Julie

            So the priests and theologians don’t know Scripture like you?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I am not aware of RC leaders here in Europa who do have the knowledge and anointing they are supposed to have.

          • Julie

            That is part of your problem you are too self isolating and that is not living in the Holy Spirit who leads us into relatioonship with others, including Catholics.

            The people contesting seem to be from europe. Aren’t you the one who was also a Mormon?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            You are totally confused.

          • theophorus

            You say ‘through his flesh’ and deny the Eucharist.

          • Grandmere

            SNAP

          • Julie

            Reference to the sacraments.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Which was transformed into a religious mess within the RC church.

          • Julie

            Sacraments and catechism … no mess. Cannot be any more defined. All written down and strictly adhered to. You cannot make church or sacrament. You are solo, alone…the lost sheep.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Off to bedlam with Mr Scrooge.

          • theophorus

            Then my friend you can never be sure. Since you are a sinful creature how can you ever know if you’re saved? Who tells you? You’ll say “The Spirit!”. Fine. But it is YOU who interprets. You are a fallen man. How can you interpret what is correct?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
            Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
            John 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

          • Grandmere

            That’s what Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert said, too. That didn’t prove out to be true, did it?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Both fell from grace, but Jim Bakker has been humbled and restored by the Lord after sincere repentance in jail and is again, even as a 75 year old man, mightily used in an endtime ministry. Very worthwhile to follow:

            http://jimbakkershow.com/

          • Grandmere

            I saw Jimmy Swaggert on a commercial for his new network. They always find a way to get back on that money train instead of going into seclusion.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I don’t care about Swaggert, but I truly like what God did in Jim Bakkers life.

          • Tom_mcewen

            You left out Jim Jones and his temple of lemonade.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Richardo, you must be young, a person deciding if they are saved is the last person who can judge. The NKVD shooting people in the basement of the all Russian insurance company thought they were doing good not evil, the SS thought the same. It is hard to make people do evil, but easy if they think it is good
            We have no mirror into our souls, that is left to God.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Maybe ‘deciding’ is not the appropriate term, but anyone may and should know if she or he is saved. If you don’t have the assurance, ‘go straight to God’, we need and are dependent on His presence every day in our life. I am not young, I could have been a somewhat young grandpa.

            Rom. 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
            2Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

          • Grandmere

            The Mormons “know”, in their minds that they are saved. The Branch Davidians just “knew” they were. The family of the Jonesboro Baptist just “knows” down deep that they are. Some kind of spirit is assuring them they are saved.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            If you are in a sect, and those groups you mentioned surely are, there can be no doubt some deceiving demonic powers are at work. You do have a personal responsibility, to have a thorough understanding about scriptures yourself in order to accept, or reject anything that is or is not according to scripture. As for my life, I know the scriptures, I am a independent thinker, but do recognize the spiritual authority of my pastor and I do experience the salvation and sanctification power of His Spirit in my life, that is enough.

          • Julie

            Not in Scripture, Christ never taught this.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            2Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

          • Julie

            All you can answer to mine basically is that you are clueless to people who provide truth to contradict your claims.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            James 1:5

          • Julie

            Contradiction to SS Peter and Paul….we are to follow their teachings and the traditions they gave us.

            Your personal opinion of Christ is not saving.

          • DeusLoVult

            Can you please direct me to the relevant verses, my lady? 🙂

          • Julie

            St Peter: 2 Letter Ch 2,3
            St Paul: 2 Thessalonians 2:15. They had encountered the Lord.
            The Catholic Catechism is the tradition of faith into practice and includes the teaching and doctrine of Sacred Scripture, what Liturgy is, the Sacraments, the Decalogue – 10 commandments, morality and prayer. All referenced.

            It is the teaching Magesterium of the Holy Spirit, not us, that provides us consistency and continuity of faith.

            Let me know if you visit the Blessed Sacrament…where the sanctuary lamp is lit, indicating His presence.

            You may want to visit Exodus 29….and see the directives of the Temple, the priests robes, the daily sacrifice, the Ark of the Covenant, the Mercy Seat…and how is fulfilled in your ordinary Catholic/Orthodox church and the liturgy.

            I am working to get into habit to go to vespers, evening prayers based on the Psalms at our local Greek Orthodox, about 3 miles from my house and so beautiful.

          • Grandmere

            You have the sweetest, most loving spirit. I can’t bear it when people are mean to you.

          • Julie

            I listened all the way down to the Le Creuset store to check out a blemish on my new blue pot and it was OK. But on the way down I heard all the time about the need that we must ask God Himself for the gift and power of forgiveness….as we cannot do it ourselves.

            Thank you for such kind words; yours are so spot on and full of life!

          • Grandmere

            Jehovah’s Witness think they are Christians and have determined that they are saved. They have also determined that we are not.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            The only confirmation you can get is that of God Himself, through His Spirit. If you experience His provision of grace, which takes care of your sanctification, you know you are saved, still you need to ‘maintain’ your salvation through not resisting His work within you.

            Rom. 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
            2Th. 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

            Whatever our differences or backgrounds are, ‘believers’ are called to live a life in relationship with His Spirit in order to be a vessel unto God under the guidance of His Spirit.

            Phil. 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
            1John 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world
            Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

            My wish for you and your loved ones for 2016:

            Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

          • Grandmere

            The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they have the confirmation of God through the Holy Spirit. But they are deceived.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Some times what protestants call the holy spirit is just a bad piece of pork. I think the LDS calls it a warm feeling, I just call it delusional.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Whatever, at the same time most catholics do not even have the slightest awareness of the absolute dependence on His presence in the life of a believer. John 15:5

          • Tom_mcewen

            Life is the holy spirit, but you believing it is whispering in your ear is delusional. Gravity is a fact, Christ is true God and true man is a fact, the Eucharist is the body and blood of our Lord is a fact, that the Catholic church was founded by Christ is a fact, the holy spirit whispering in your ear is not a fact. But a delusion.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Religious nonsense which typical comes from an un-regenerated (1 Corinthians 2:14) human mind/spirit. Just read the NT, in particular John and the book of Acts.

          • Tom_mcewen

            What no phone number ?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Not required.

          • Tom_mcewen

            It is by me. Otherwise you are talking through your hat. 2+2=4

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            John 16:13, Revelation 2:7, 2:11, 2:17, 2:29. 3:6, 3:13, 3:22

            Matt. 11:15 He who has ears, let him hear.
            Matt. 13:9 He who has ears, let him hear.”
            Matt. 13:15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
            they hardly hear with their ears,
            and they have closed their eyes.
            Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
            hear with their ears,
            understand with their hearts
            and turn, and I would heal them.’
            16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

          • Tom_mcewen

            And Christ said, blasphemy of the holy spirit will not be forgived in this world or the next, that is what you are doing.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Sorry Tom: utter ignorance. I believe it is utter blasphemy to consider the Holy Spirit ‘dead and buried’ like ‘institutionalised religion’.

          • Tom_mcewen

            You are utter ignorant, to assume the mantel and powee of the third person of the Godhead as you do is blasphemy.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Matt. 22:29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

            Rom. 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

            2Cor. 3:5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.

            1Cor. 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
            1John 4:4b the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
            Phil. 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

            When was the last time you actually read Romans chapter 8?

          • Tom_mcewen

            Is that the scriptures Jesus read in the synagogue in Greek of the scriptures after you took out seven books? Jesus said to those who said , we preached in you name and he said into the fire. Blasphemy is mortal sin you are guilty of it.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Still more, pathetic religious nonsense, that is why you do need the Holy Spirit.

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            LDS call it a warm feeling, we call it botulism.

          • Ya, a blue little bird with a shell for the helmet of salvation.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Bricks bust shells to smithereens.

          • You might squish the little bird

          • Стефан Евгений

            What about a bb-gun i got for Christmas, that will do.

          • Стефан Евгений

            IT, does no good to have a conversation with a block of wood.

          • DeusLoVult

            You got that right. Just throw it on the fire with the rest of them. Problem solved.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Our Russian, and Southern, good sense came out. Our down home reality serves us well.

          • DeusLoVult

            Indeed. It keeps our feet on the ground, and prevents us from sailing up into the clouds with the loonies.

          • Pretty much any Christian can do that nowadays. It’s like I was telling Rudy the other day about the “Emergent Church movement” where a man can claim to be a pastor and unknowingly set himself up to be a cult. This is a pattern that continues to repeat from the time of the apostles to today.

            Nothing new under the sun.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            What Luther started has run rampant over the earth. Could you imagine anyone trying to set up their “own’ Israel?

          • I wouldn’t pin it on Luther only. What of Arius and his band of merry men? Or how about those who taught modalism?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            True- but in all the heresies, the Church remains the pillar and bulwark of Truth.

          • No argument on it. That’s what all those councils, starting with the Jerusalem Council in Acts, were for.

            Too bad that so many are ahistorical.

          • Catbr

            Sounds like voodoo to me.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Just basics.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            In your scenario, how can people like you be given penance to be served ? How can people like you receive the Eucharist?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            OK, I am Dutch: Clear language please.

          • Grandmere

            Like this???? This, Ricardo, is pandemonium, plain and simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVNLfHInqsU

          • Stephen Dalton

            And the cultists who lead them will laugh all the way to the bank!

          • Стефан Евгений

            This is demonic,

          • Grandmere

            That is what I said, Evgenii. Pandemonium. An there is worse on You Tube.

          • Стефан Евгений

            I saw binny hin and others on Russian TV….People were being posessed barking laughing ect.

          • Grandmere

            The hissing and writhing are getting worse. Emergent church vids are chilling.

          • Julie

            I never watch those shows in America….too disturbing.

          • Стефан Евгений

            This was a Russian news program as a warning.

          • Stephen Dalton

            If they were barking, they were probably treeing the devil!

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            My exact thought when I saw this. These charlatans thinking they can use and abuse the power and glory of the Third person in the Godhead of the Holy Trinity for some agenda is in fact not the Holy Spirit nor of God. Totally demonic!

          • Michellemaria

            Mercy me! What the ….? :))

          • Grandmere

            There are more shocking ones out there – believe me. Hissing, writhing, screaming.

          • Michellemaria

            I can believe it, Grandmere, I can.

          • DeusLoVult

            And I very much doubt any of that is “Holy” my lady…..

          • Grandmere

            Correctomundo.

          • Stephen Dalton

            Yes, the Toronto Blessing(?!) comes to mind. And in the early 1800’s, the Cane Ridge Revivals in Kentucky had similar phenomena. Treeing the devil was one of the more spectacular manifestations. In “treeing” a person would be under the delusion he was chasing the devil, and would run Ol’ Nick up a tree. So, there’s nothing new under the sun folks.

          • Stephen Dalton

            “Holy laughter” is nothing new. I’ve heard a recording of the laughter from Primitive Baptist that was made in the early 1900’s.

          • Стефан Евгений

            It goes all the way back to the Gnostics.

          • Stephen Dalton

            Not surprising. Old heresies always get recycled.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Sufis parading as Christians.

          • Julie

            People here already have a personal relationship with Christ…and we have it with each other through His Church.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            I sincerely hope so.

          • Catbr

            The church is a basic principle in Christianity. In the bible Jesus referred to his church and building his church. One can’t deny this. Just because you are part of a church does not mean you can’t think for yourself or be an individual.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Actually it is a combination of both.

            This is our experience:

            Eph. 2:22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

            This is my wish as a blessing for you and your fellow believers for 2016:

            Rom. 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

          • Disagreement on minor issues? Show me where a “thus says the Lord” is a minor issue? Just one?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Ephesians 4:11

          • Grandmere

            Hear, hear!

        • “I can’t put my trust in any leadership which is not led by the Spirit
          and that certainly applies to the Vatican as a religious institute that
          violates the scriptures in many areas,”

          Well, I can’t trust you either.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            You don’t have to. Trust Him through His Spirit. 1 Cor. 2:10, 1 John 2:27, John 15

          • It still does not take away from the fact I do not trust anything you post. All I have seen is division, division, and more division.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Start studying the scriptures with an independent mind void of any preconceived concepts for yourself. About unity: There is perfect unity amongst those believers who are truly born again, who may be scattered among different denominations. Belonging to any denomination does not give you any guarantee to actual be a Christian, the only guarantee there is, is being born again and that is not dependent on religious convictions of others.

          • “Start studying the scriptures with an independent mind void of any preconceived concepts for yourself.”

            Who are you to lecture me, bub? You think I don’t have an independent mind? How do you know? Dost thou have the ability to read my mind like God? Who died and anointed you the King of the Universe?

            “About unity: There is perfect unity amongst those believers who are
            truly born again, who may be scattered among different denominations.”

            Then, I suggest you reread Acts 1. You should take note that the Holy Spirit never came down until the apostles and all who were in the Upper Room were unified and the Holy Spirit came. Again, this circles back to my earlier comment to you, all I have seen from you is nothing but division and a “know-it-all” attitude. And what you failed to realize is that Jesus asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit for two reasons – 1) to bear witness to the disciples and their apostles the words of Christ to them, and 2) to empower their ministry to fulfill the Great Commission. Jesus Himself is our pattern. Jesus received the Holy Spirit at His baptism, then before going into the wilderness, He was filled with the Holy Spirit, and finally after resisting the devil for 40 days and nights, He was walking with power of the Holy Spirit. Why? To be a model for all of us, like a cookie cutter pattern, to use a crude analogy. What you truly lack is discernment and that is frankly very disturbing.

            “Belonging to any denomination does not give you any guarantee to actual
            be a Christian, the only guarantee there is, is being born again and
            that is not dependent on religious convictions of others.”

            You are flat out wrong. The Jehovah’s Witness doctrine are twisted and blasphemous along with Seventh Day Adventist who have repeated the same thing apostle Paul condemned, namely those who contend that Catholics (which Adventists hate with a passion) saying they changed the Sabbath laws. Excuse me? Christ is our Sabbath rest. When I look for the church that are “breaking breads daily” exactly as found in the books of Acts, I only find that to be true within the apostolic churches such as Roman Catholics, Egyptian Coptic, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox Church and so forth. Second, knowing what denominations one belongs to will reveal their root doctrines. A Jehovah Witness clearly belong to a heretic sect. Ditto for Seventh Day Adventist.

            Since you are Pentecostal, and I have experienced being a Pentecostal, you clearly do not realize that those pastors feed a high-dependent congregations in order to keep their bank accounts full by making the congregations hysterical every Sunday, or what is mockingly called “holy rollers” service. In other words, those are making their congregations addicted to being high all time. They are the first to wilt at the first sign of trouble that hit their life and they wail, beat their chest thinking that God abandoned them. I have seen it. Experienced it myself. My life taught me a very important lesson – God is all about balance and order whereas Satan is chaos and confusion.

            Your list of “preferred” pastors above reveals a total lack of understanding on what these men teaches. Let’s use Derek Prince for example. I have listened to two of his sermons and found them to lacking in substance and abundant in hype, which is typical of those who preaches posterity gospels at the expense of truth.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            “Start studying the scriptures with an independent mind void of any preconceived concepts for yourself.”

            – Just a general advice.

            Then, I suggest you reread Acts 1. You should take note that the Holy Spirit never came down until the apostles and all who were in the Upper Room were unified and the Holy Spirit came.

            – I am not in favor of division, but I am not willing to support an apostate church either.

            And what you failed to realize is that Jesus asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit for two reasons – 1) to bear witness to the disciples and their apostles the words of Christ to them, and 2) to empower their ministry to fulfill the Great Commission. Jesus Himself is our pattern. Jesus received the Holy Spirit at His baptism, then before going into the wilderness, He was filled with the Holy Spirit, and finally after resisting the devil for 40 days and nights, He was walking with power of the Holy Spirit. Why? To be a model for all of us, like a cookie cutter pattern, to use a crude analogy. What you truly lack is discernment and that is frankly very disturbing.

            – Fully agree, now talking about my discernment: Where can you prove me wrong !?

            “Belonging to any denomination does not give you any guarantee to actual be a Christian, the only guarantee there is, is being born again and that is not dependent on religious convictions of others.”

            – You can be born again believer in most mainstream forms of Christianity, which indeed does not include the Jehovah Witnesses and no born-again believer will choose to attend those JW services.

            Since you are Pentecostal, and I have experienced being a Pentecostal, you clearly do not realize that those pastors feed a high-dependent congregations in order to keep their bank accounts full by making the congregations hysterical every Sunday, or what is mockingly called “holy rollers” service. In other words, those are making their congregations addicted to being high all time.

            – There are certainly a disturbing number of pentecostal Churches where the leadership is abbusing their ‘spiritual authority’. At the same time those churches who are most open to the work of His Spirit are most vunerable for demonic deception. In reverse shutting the Spirit of God up is the best assurance te keep the status quo of a dead church in full order.

            Let’s use Derek Prince for example. I have listened to two of his sermons and found them to lacking in substance and abundant in hype, which is typical of those who preaches posterity gospels at the expense of truth.

            – I bet Derek Prince is the only one you know a bit about, and gosh how I hate those baseless accusations, without any substantional arguments, in which I do recognise the hand of the enemy.

          • “- I am not in favor of division, but I am not willing to support an apostate church either.”

            I am not in favor of supporting you.

            “- Fully agree, now talking about my discernment: Where can you prove me wrong !?”

            You claim to be able to discern who of God and who is not. I don’t buy that one bit when all you want to do is argue that you are right and everybody else is wrong, the mark of one in a cult.

            “- You can be born again believer in most mainstream forms of
            Christianity, which indeed does not include the Jehovah Witnesses and no
            born-again believer will choose to attend those JW services.”

            Then there are born again believers in the Catholic Church, or are you so biased against Catholics you are blinded?

            “- There are certainly a disturbing number of pentecostal Churches where
            the leadership is abbusing their ‘spiritual authority’. At the same time
            those churches who are most open to the work of His Spirit are most
            vunerable for demonic deception. In reverse; Shutting the Spirit of God
            up is the best assurance te keep the status quo of a dead church in full
            order.”

            So who decides a church is dead? You, Ricardo? I would not trust your judgement since you do not look at the speck in your own eyes.

            “- I bet Derek Prince is the only one you know a bit about, and gosh how I
            hate those baseless accusations, without any substantional arguments,
            in which I do recognise the hand of the enemy.”

            And I recognize the handiwork of the enemy in you. All you want to do is argue because you, Ricardo, claiming to be spirit-filled and born again have all the right answer and everybody else are wrong.

            PFFFT.

            I beg you good day.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            1 – I am being accused of being a heretic and not being a part of ‘the church’, thus I have to defend myself. I am making the argument: if you want to accuse others of heresy, I have no other choice then holding up the mirror which is the Word of God. (James 1:23)
            2 – I am challenging anyone to make founded arguments why any of my positions is wrong, and if someone can convince me wrong I will have no difficulty to admit it.

          • You opened your big mouth.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            For good reasons.

          • Nope.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Ah you can talk, congratulations, now start thinking.

          • I can do more than just talk. I can think for myself unlike you recycling ridiculous arguments how there are apostate church.

            So maybe I need to wait for a Ricardo Hotatio Bible so I can toss it into my woodstove and warm myself. How about that?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            You got a mess up there.

          • You are clearly a church all unto yourself. I’m fleeing from the devil….you.

            See ya.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            My church: Ephesians 2:21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

            Good luck with your church.

          • Tom_mcewen

            If is interesting that in 500 years there are 44,000 protestant churches at war. If as their history claims the Catholic church became apostate early there should be 44,000 x 4 eq 176,000 Catholic churches at war.

          • LOL.

          • Correction: little beak.

          • Ah, smarty pant strikes again. :-))

          • Grandmere

            You are killing me!!!!! My sides are starting to hurt.

          • Grandmere

            And I hereby accuse you of being a big crybaby. For the love of humanity, GO BACK TO SLEEP!

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            As a so called ‘Christian’ you are truly showing off your spiritual and moral bankruptcy.

          • mspip

            it appears that hotatio thinks he knows everything… now he will probably have to try to put me down.

        • The little bird again giving us all his typical sermons?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Proof me wrong.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Scripture is NOT for private interpretation.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Yep, you do need the Spirit of God.

          • Julie

            2 Peter 2, 3.

            You are not following Peter, the primary apostle.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            Another clueless remark.

          • Grandmere

            Poor Ricardo! That takes him out of the driver’s seat.

          • Grandmere

            Angry Birds? They like that little game.

      • Ricardo Hotatio

        Indeed the Holy Spirit has not, but ‘the Church’ at large has and is.

      • Ricardo Hotatio

        Indeed the Holy Spirit has not, but ‘the Church’ at large has and is.

    • Julie

      You should check out American companies that follow the laws regarding environment, but then in places like Ecuador, are not doing the same and destroying people’s lands.

      It is pertaining to how we end up treating the poor and this reflects the gospel.

  • susan

    “For that matter papism is no better”. What is “papism”?

    • Grandmere

      I think they use that term for the authority of the Pope.

      • OrthodoxKGC2015

        And ‘Papists’ is a theological technical term within Orthodox Christianity to describe those who follow the Pope of Old Rome, and the body of theology around that following as ‘Papism’.

        • Julie

          What is Old Rome?

          • Стефан Евгений

            The proper name for Constantinople is New Rome so Rome became Old Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome

          • Julie

            Thanks.

            What was the name there prior to Muslim Ottomans?…not Turkey…but what was that region called before the Turkey Lurkeys?

          • Стефан Евгений

            Anatolia

          • Julie

            Yes…thanks, and how long was it in use before the Lurkeys came in? I hope they are re converted and their form of Islam, coinciding with the barbarous Saudi Wahhabis will lose what they destroyed or looted or raped.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            The original city in Italy. St. Constantine officially designated his new city on the Bosphorus in the East as ‘New Rome’, popularly called ‘Constantinople’, or ‘Constantine’s City’ in Greek.

          • Julie

            Thanks and learned his two sons ruled over East and West respectively.

            Lots to learn.

    • Julie

      The Catholic Church is universal because of the papacy.

  • Seraphim2478

    Mr King you managed to implicate all Christian groups in collaboration with Luther! Protestant, Catholic, protestant and Christian cultists/ sectarians of various stripes and of course Islam. First of all I enjoyed the article and for that I kindly thank you! Here is where we are going to get the apologetic from protestants, that” Luther has nothing to do with my personal opinions on Scripture, the Holy Ghost has taught me the true understanding of Scripture”…and on we go then, attacks on Catholic teaching. The protestant will distance themselves from Luther and remain stoutley uniformed that their views on: Salvation by faith alone, unconditional grace, eternal security, sola gloria, perseverance of the saints and anti apocryphal views on Scripture all can be traced to Martin Luther!! So did the Holy Spirit guide their personal interpretation of Scripture??? Or Did paps, Martin Luther have more to do with them then they would care to admit??? This is why the protestant churches are in such chaos largely, certainly not all. Why they hold to such bizarre teachings, is because of Pride and prelest (spiritual delusion). I am certain that if they humble themselves and objectively seek the Truth they will find the greatest treasure any man could ever have- God in Spirit and Truth!!

  • DanlBoone

    Good piece, brutally true. Luther had a namesake in Martin Luther King. A lot of people, myself included, were taught that MLK was a Christian. He actually denied all central tenets of the fidelity of Christ [Christianity]: the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the Trinity.

    Personally, I’ve never bothered to try and find out what other poseurs, like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton actually believe. They are racist agents provocateur, after the similitude of the false and racist ‘doctrines’ of Black Liberation theology..theology loosely so called, that is.

    Similar also with Obama. I.e., whatever Obama actually believes, or doesn’t believe regarding the peculiarly Arabian god, Allah, is beside the point. Obama is not a Christian. He’s nominally ‘Christian,’ insofar as he names the [N]ame of Christ.

    And the term, ‘nominally’ means just that, it is named… and not to be confused with being ‘a little bit Christian;’ it just means “named.”

    Obama is ethnically Muslim–that’s not debatable; it’s a simple fact. He’s nominally Christian, per the above statement.

    In praxis, he’s probably atheistic–a moot point. Here’s a quote where Obama wrenches central doctrines of the Christian faith, denying the propitiation of Christ’s sacrifice, as some convoluted and empty argument in support of homosexual marriage:

    “I’ve just concluded that for me personally, it is important for me
    to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to
    get married,” Obama told ABC News reporter Robin Roberts in an interview to air this evening.

    He added that his wife, Michelle, agreed with him. “We’ve talked
    about it over the years and she, you know, she feels the same way,” he
    said.

    “We are both practicing Christians and obviously this position may be
    considered to put us at odds with the views of others,” Obama stated,
    “but, you know, when we think about our faith, the thing at root that we think about is,

    not only Christ sacrificing Himself on our behalf, … but
    it’s also the Golden Rule.”

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/obama-says-his-support-for-same-sex-marriage-based-on-the-golden-rule

    • AnthonyM

      In the past few weeks, I noticed there is been a campaign by the MSM to refer to Obama’s alleged Christianity, and his almost ‘holy’ life. This is absurd dishonesty on their part, and is simply politically motivated. But many will be deceived by this false window dressing. The expression come to mind: You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

      • DANTEontheLake

        “You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear” You just quoted my mother! LOL!

        • AnthonyM

          That reminds me, I should introduce the expression to my kids, to continue the tradition!

          • mspip

            but you might have to explain what sows ear and silk purse means, times have really changed, so have purses. sows ears not changed but children now days probably dont know what a sow is…

          • AnthonyM

            But they do understand bacon!

        • mspip

          lots of us heard that very true saying.

      • Stephen Dalton

        Actually, it’s a Muslim’s ear they’re trying to make silk purse out of!

  • AnthonyM

    Excellent article Thomas! So many have been deceived by a false knowledge of Luther. May the scales fall from their eyes, and they seek conversion. Life is short, and it ends at an unpredictable moment. A person may not have another 20 years to make up their mind.

  • Kamau41

    Excellent and very detailed insights on the founding hiersiarch of Martin Luther and the very damaging affects of the Protestant Reformation. We pray that many more will awaken from their delusion and open up their eyes to the truth sooner rather than later.

    • mspip

      the article was a real eye opener for me. did not know that luther was such a varmint…

  • Interesting Swiss-Knife,

    Enlil is Allat, the feminine root of Allah. Instead of typing everything here, just search on Google “Shoebat” and “Enlil”. Here is an example:

    http://shoebat.com/2012/09/13/the-oldest-reference-to-allah/

  • DANTEontheLake

    I cannot speak for other protestant churches or other Baptist churches, but I can speak for my Baptist church. When I review the doctrine of salvation, faith vs works etc. I see very little difference between what I have been taught (i.e. how my pastor explains it using the Bible and how The Orthodox Study Bible explains it. The same would go for the book of Ephesians and predestination. My pastor,my own independent study and my Orthodox study bible are in agreement in these areas.

    • DANTEontheLake

      For me in this particular area the differences are which syllable you want to put the accent on.

    • Stephen Dalton

      You must not have read the notes in the OSB very carefully. The Orthodox Church, along with the Catholic, doesn’t teach justification by faith alone. So there’s no way your pastor, and your independent study can truly be in agreement with the OSB, and the Orthodox and Catholic faiths.

      • Стефан Евгений

        I hate that osb bible It was put together buy jumped up Konvertsy and Orthodox, modernists,

        http://orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/review_osb2.aspx

        • Stephen Dalton

          I thought the commentary on James 2:14-26 was correct. But, I find it funny that an OSB was published by a Protestant publisher. That doesn’t make sense to me. Shouldn’t an Orthodox (or Catholic book) be published by members of the faith, rather than an outsider?

          • Стефан Евгений

            I find it strange too. The Orthodox bibles are still in Greek and Slavonic. We can’t read aloud the osb in Church, so what does that tell you, Stephen.

          • Stephen Dalton

            So your services aren’t in the native language like Russian or English?

          • Стефан Евгений

            Stephen, in Russia the Liturgy is in Slavonic the sermon in Russian. Here in my church it is in English and Slavonic,

            We even don’t have an approved bible in Russian. Slavonic is like old English, most can comprehend it.

          • DeusLoVult

            I’ve never even heard of Slavonic. Is that old Russian?

          • Стефан Евгений
          • DeusLoVult

            Stunningly beautiful…..

          • Стефан Евгений

            Along with the Welsh, we can make the stones weep.

          • DeusLoVult

            The Welsh do sing beautifully. 🙂

          • Kkdgrace

            I was under the impression that the OSB was published by Thomas Nelson Publishers at the time Michael Hyack(sp?), a deacon in the Antiochian Orthodox Church, was CEO of the company. Do you think that would have had any effect on the “product”? I know he used/promoted that Bible multiple times during some of his Sunday School lessons/series, heard on Ancient Faith Radio. Just wondering. I’ve enjoyed listening to his classes.

        • DANTEontheLake

          Is the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) as you say “Konvertsy and Orthodox, modernists,” ?

          • Стефан Евгений

            Konvertsy is a play on words, it can be a convert or envelope . Is it empty the flap stuck.
            IT is the converts that never change spots they were bad sorts to their former faith and bad for us Orthodox. it is not just the OCA thank God the church wars are over.

          • DANTEontheLake

            I am still confused. Is the OCA representative of the Orthodox faith? Or is it like the Orthodox Study bible I choose?

          • Стефан Евгений

            the OCA came about in the 1970s befor it was the Metropolia under the Moscow Patriarchate, Rocor Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, and is in communion with Moscow They are all in communion with Moscow so yes they are Orthodox The OCA tends to be more modern in it’s approach,

      • DANTEontheLake

        Is this story saved by Christmas an example of “faith alone”?

        http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/12/saved_by_christmas.html

        • Stephen Dalton

          I don’t she how these two stories prove “faith alone”. If anything, they prove living faith must have works, or it’s dead.

          • DANTEontheLake

            I agree 100 percent with what you just wrote brother! I have always been taught faith must be demonstrated by works otherwise it becomes questionable if a person has faith.

      • DANTEontheLake

        “What is difficult to refute is that this image was used to reconcile the oppressed natives of Mexico with their Spanish rulers and put an end to the bloody human sacrifice of the Aztecs. In the end, the Guadalupe image caused the conversion of ten million natives in the next 10 years!”

        Is the conversion of the Aztecs an example of “faith alone”?

        http://shoebat.com/2015/08/30/the-virgin-of-guadalupe-is-not-satanic-it-actually-proves-christianity-and-shows-that-mary-will-crush-islam-in-the-end/

  • Joe M

    I checked out what was said about Martin Luther, and true according to the Catholic internet sites, these statements are alleged to have been made about Luther, but the non RC sites don’t mention that he said any of these things! Actually, these statements if made by Luther, are rather preposterous and unbelievable. They are so unbelievable that l cannot believe them!

    Reading the 95 thesus, these show the character of the man, a man who raged against the excesses and corruption of the Roman Catholic Church.

    Was Luther perfect, no, he was not, and he was hard line in punishing sins. He called Jesus Christ his Lord and he clearly loved Jesus. As for the so called condemnation of the book of James, the Book of Revelation, and the other books that Luther allegedly wanted removed from the New Testament, if they had been removed then there would not be very much left to read! I think Luther would be aware of that!

    As to these statements that are alleged to have come from the words of Martin Luther, they are much like the hadiths that are alleged to have been the words and deeds of Muhammad, they were written not by the person but by his so called friends and obvious enemies!

    I am not Lutheran. I say this, at that time 16th century, most Christians, Roman Catholics too, were “burning witches ” in their ignorance, and hating Jews for crucifying Jesus, their precious Lord. With more education and biblical understanding, it was realised that Jesus Christ laid down his own life as an atonement blood offering, and the Jews facilitated him to achieve God’s desire. What would have happened if the Jews had not handed Jesus over to the Romans for crucifixion? The Lutheran Protestants obviously did not ponder that question, nor take into account that the first Christians were Jewish.

    • Stephen Dalton

      You’re naïve. There’s plenty of documentation that Luther said those things from both his enemies and friends. Do some more reading.

      • Joe M

        As l said, its hearsay!

        Understand this example; Muslims try to convince Christians that they have misunderstood their scriptures and they need educating by muslims. This attitude assumes that Christians are stupid and cannot understand the Bible. So we explain to the muslim that we have theologians who have degrees. Doctorates. Etc, and we are not in need and ignorance waiting on muslims to come along and enlighten us as if we and our leaders, our hierarchy, are sitting in darkness. If we were to accept what the enemies of Christianity has to say, we would become Muslims!

        Equally, Protestants, are not stupid, they are well educated people on the whole and they know what Christianity is, and how to assess whether someone who claims to be Christian is in fact Christian! These Protestants have theologians too, with doctorates etc. Protestants don’t just accept someone simply on the basis of having a theological degree or degree in Divinity, the person has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk! There is no way that Protestant Christians would have accepted a man who said what that article claims Luther said. It is an impossibility that they would have respected a man who blasphemed against God and wanted major scriptures of the Gospels removed. It is the enemies of Luther who are claiming he said these statements, and the proof is that only foolish Roman Catholic people are making these claims on their internet sites.

        Grow up, it is not me who is niave! In the last days all Christians will unite to stand against the anti Christ. It doesn’t mean that all Christians will join the worship practices of the Roman Catholic Church, and become Roman Catholic! I have already moved into the place where l need to be mentally to unite with Roman Catholics in order to fight for Chrisendom, but you are way back on the path, friend!

        • Stephen Dalton

          I’m a former Lutheran, so I know what I’m talking about. I’ve read many of Luther’s writings that most Lutherans have never read, and they are filled with hate toward Jews and Catholics. If you have never read The Jews And Their Lives or Luther’s Anti-Papal screeds, you have never read the real Luther. They are filled with vulgar, obscene, passages that would embarrass a pornographer. So don’t call me naïve, I was a Lutheran, but not an ignorant one who didn’t know the real Luther, like most Lutherans (and Protestants) are.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Scripture itself does not teach scripture only – that is an invention of Luther and all the protestants who bought into his false doctrines. The Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth, per 1 Tim 3:1 – don’t forget that Paul taught to hold to the traditions that were handed down.

  • Стефан Евгений

    This is who she is, The most holy Theotokos, and ever Virgin Mary.

    http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/hopko_lectures/who_is_the_theotokos_part_1-1

    • Стефан Евгений
    • Willing to die for Jesus

      Steve, as you may know I am absolutely devoted to the Blessed Virgin, or the Theotokos, and I am also looking into the Russian devotion to the Blessed Mother of the Universal Church. Nothing brings me more joy than venerating the Blessed Virgin and drawing on Her example and faith in the Lord.

      What brought me so much joy is coming across this remark by the Orthodox theologian, Sergei Bulgakov, who wrote:

      “Love and veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary is the soul of Orthodox piety. A faith in Christ which does not include his mother is another faith, another Christianity from that of the Orthodox church.”

      Deep and insightful comment, which was echoed by a commenter here before. Which is why nothing more can be hurtful to a Catholic or Orthodox than abusing the Blessed Virgin or Theotokos.

      And Catholics do follow the same Mary as the Orthodox even if there are some dogmatic issues outstanding, these are nothing like those separating us from the Protestant sects, who say the most hurtful things about Our Lady.

      I’ve been responding to so many of them and trying to correct them, about the Virgin’s perpetual virginity and Her status as the Mother of all Christians, and not to call us idolators because of our deep veneration of Her in her holy images. I was called an idolator by one for merely mentioning the Holy Icon of Kazan.

      I would also love to visit Mount Athos which is dedicated to the Blessed Virgin, so much so that only men are allowed onto the Holy Mount out of respect for the Blessed Virgin to whom the Mount is dedicated. Even female animals are forbidden I recall reading, so much respect given to the Theotokos Bearer of our Lord. Have you been there?

      And this is what I am starting to feel as well … that the non-Catholic and non-Orthodox (other than those conservative Anglicans and Lutherans who may be holding onto some semblance of Apostolic Succession and Tradition, though I don’t know enough about them to comment).. appear as if they are following a different gospel when they are not following Mary, as Bulgakov correctly pointed out.

      God bless Russia! And may the Blessed Mother look over and protect all of the followers of Her Son, Christ Our Redeemer.

      And May we all be one again in the name of Jesus and His Holy Mother Mary.

      And God bless you and all the Orthodox! As well as those looking forward to the Orthodox Christmas on Jan 7.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Mel – are you blurring intentionally? You have attempted to fuse ONE Catholic persons ACTIONS versus another’s and make it ‘interpretation’. I can give you PLENTY of Scripture that shows people of the SAME FAITH living the faith in total contradiction to what the Faith teaches.The CHURCH is the pillar and bulwark of truth, not you, and not any of the Johnny-come-lately denomination.

    • Rapheal Sebastian

      Merry Christmas, Julie! May the Blessed Lord, His Blessed Mother and His saintly earthly father continue to guide you and your family.

      Mel thinks that the Catholic Church is just like those fly by the seat of your pants scripture gymnasts that will inject whatever their agendas are in just a few lines of scripture. He probably doesn’t know that there are strict guidelines set out in the Roman Missal for the Latin Rite Church that sets out Liturgy. This is why we don’t have rock concerts and call it “worship”.

      • Julie

        It is called ‘projection’. They do not exercise their intellect as we are instructed to do. All surface and never getting to the roots to find out the truth.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Merry Christmas to you also. Protestants don’t even know what Liturgy IS – this is why they fumble in the dark.

  • Dave Knapp

    Another long winded bullshit article about how works based apostate Catholicism is the legit way to go. I’m not gonna bother reading it. Excuse me while I just go throw up…..

    • DeusLoVult

      And if you don’t mind, could you also drown yourself in the puke bucket? Or, is this bilge you already spew from your mouth sufficient to accomplish that without?

      • Dave Knapp

        Typical catholic response….glad I ain’t you! Standing before the great white throne pretending to the unhappy end that your catholic man made traditions will justify you or make you right with God….all that will happen is that he will tell you to depart from him and go to the fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

        • DeusLoVult

          lol Think I’m a Catholic do you? I have no denomination. And if any response is typical, it’s the banal accusations of apostasy, followed by condemnation to H*ll, that you anti-Catholic types toss around so often, and which have no basis in fact or reason.

        • Стефан Евгений

          He is not Catholic, so the shyte you throw wont stick.

    • Grandmere

      If you are not going to bother to read it, why do you bother coming in here and throwing up all over the floor? Stay home and puke in your toilet!

      • Julie LaBrecque

        He’s like the Muzzie women that defecated in the hotel instead of doing it at home.

        • Grandmere

          Ha, ha! We will never forget that one!

          • Стефан Евгений

            hey just moved a bunch here. did not take long to find a pile.LOL

        • mspip

          they perhaps were ignorant of bathrooms?? or just being crude and mean?

        • DeusLoVult

          They do worse than that in their native countries, my lady. They actually do that in the water they drink from….so nasty.

          • mspip

            they could get sick drinking that.

          • DeusLoVult

            They often do, my lady. But they don’t care. They act like barbarians.

      • mspip

        i read this days posting, family was protestant and for years i was too but now do not attend any church. am learning a lot on shoebat.com. as for going to church, not doing that at this time. maybe later on, will have to see.

        • Grandmere

          I will pray he directs you to a good place. I am Anglican so I have a deep love for the Catholic and the Orthodox. We need to stick up for each other.

      • Stephen Dalton

        Grandmere, people like DK need something to hate to feel good about themselves.

        • Grandmere

          I guess so. His type are always so angry and negative. They seem to have no joy or love in their heart. I hope to see more of you in the coming year.

    • Stephen Dalton

      Sir Thomas More said Luther vomited s–t. I see you’re following that old Protestant tradition!

    • Tom_mcewen

      I guess you found Jesus long winded in Matthew on corporate world of mercy long too.

    • mspip

      if you would read the article, you might learn something…..

    • Owen Schumacher

      Maybe in the reflection of your vomit you’ll see the face of Luther.

      • Grandmere

        ROFL

      • Stephen Dalton

        Will that be declared a miracle like Jesus’s face in a tortilla, or Mary’s image in a window pane? And what Lutheran synod will hail it as a miracle?

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    LOL! Dude, you somehow think that the Liturgy in Catholic Churches is just like the fly by your pants, make it up as you go, just started last week “churches” in the Protestant spectrum? I suggest you go get a hold of the Roman Missal, where even what is taught by Scripture and by sermon has strict guidelines. ALL priests MUST follow, not following this is an abuse of liturgy and has consequences both on Earth and in Heaven.

  • Стефан Евгений

    http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/theotokos.aspx

    What a stupid little mind, to think such a thing. That the most holy Theotokos is pagan,

  • Jeff Benton

    You should be careful when refering to the earthly mother of our Lord Jesus Christ…
    She is not dead…
    And she is not unprotected…

    The very one that formed you out of nothing is her Son…
    I see you like to quote Scripture, and then turn around and blapheme against God…
    Do you think it is not blasphemey to call the mother of Jesus Christ allah and diana??
    Whether you know it or not, you just called Jesus Christ the son of the devil…
    That my friend is blasphemy…

    But my guess is you do know that, and did it anyway…
    You quote scripture in other comments yet don’t actually believe what it says about Mary being the mother of Jesus Christ… So you dont believe the very words you like to quote…

    Yeppers, that right there tells me you purposefully blasphemed against God, or perhaps you are just so du mb that you make a box of rocks look smart…

    May God have mercy on your soul…

  • Tom_mcewen

    Do you have any thing to say or do you guote scripture out of context, history and culture because it fits your personal theology? God gave you a mind the bible is a book a story of 100,000 sentences, paragraphs, chapters books, do you read Sherlock Holmes or any novel by selecting sentences out of context?

  • Tom_mcewen

    I hate people quoting scripture to fit their personal theology. Luther to get his leg over on a nun he liked changed the bible, kicked out 1500 years of theology so he could get the girl and keep his salvation, but the contract he made up was signed by him but not by God, his signature was forged and written in nr.2 pencil. God as the judge will reject this contract and the man who wrote it. Protestantism is truly a new gospel. King henry also wanted to get his leg over too, that didn’t work out well either. I hear it is the word of God, no it is the word of Luther, out of context, history and you cannot bind God. You are not Harry Potter and his invisibility cloak.

  • Ricardo Hotatio

    Favorite and solid preachers/teachers:

    Colin Urquhart
    Neil T Anderson
    Andrew Murray
    Michael Brown
    Derek Prince
    John Bevere
    John Kilpatrick
    Steve Gallagher
    Myles Munroe

    • Grandmere

      Why am I not surprised by this list?

      • Ricardo Hotatio

        Because you lack any spiritual discernment.

        • Grandmere

          So Kenneth Hagen has “spiritual discernment”?

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            More than you. let me tell you an experience, many years ago. I once had a disturbing rift with two people I was very close to. I felt completely betrayed and was convinced that this relationship could never be mend. There was a separation for a few months which I thought would last forever. At a certain point I knew I was going to meet them, because a meeting was being held at their church which I wanted to attend.

            Let me first give you a scripture:

            Acts 2:12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?” 13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.’” 14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning!

            What happened is that Gods Spirit came and we were genuine ‘drunk in spirit’ for at least half an hour. But here comes the essence; While being completely overwhelmed with joy and laughter laying on the ground I looked at the guy who had betrayed me. The moment we saw each other we both knew our relationship had been restored fully without words or our own human effort, it was only through the sovereign grace and presence of His Spirit. What was impossible with men was made possible through God.

          • Stephen Dalton

            This is absolute madness! I see no confession of sin here, just an overwhelming emotional experience that shut down natural human feelings and emotions in both of you. And when it wears off, the two of you will be back to square one with the same hurt emotions and hatreds.

          • Ricardo Hotatio

            You are simply ignorant and lack any understanding and experience what it means to be led by the Spirit. Besides physical healing many people need emotional healing and restoration as well and I can assure you that is what happened, all people involved were released through His grace alone, the hurt is gone and His peace rules in our lives.

  • Grandmere

    You just condemned yourself.

  • Tom_mcewen

    The seven churches was the churches under the authority of john, he was their bishop.

  • Stephen Dalton

    We have had bad priests, bishops, and popes, because sin works in all mankind. But that doesn’t disprove the Catholic faith. What proves the faith is who has correct doctrine. You Protestants have had heresies since Luther opened his blasphemous mouth to teach them. In spite of all the bad priests, bishops, and popes we’ve had, faithful lay and ordained Catholics have held on to the true faith. Sadly, in spite of all the “good” msince 1517inisters and lay Protestants you have, you and your fellow Protestants have lost more and more of whatever Catholic truths you had .

  • Joe M

    “Once saved always saved” is not a Protestant ideology! For we proddies are well aware that a dog can return to its vomit and a pig to roll in the mud!

    • Stephen Dalton

      Joe, that idea has always been a part of Calvinism, and most of Evangelical Christianity, so it’s a Protestant ideology.

      • Joe M

        No, there are churches that are Catholic but not Roman Catholic. Of course, there are Lutheran and Calvinism churches, and Babtists, and evangelical churches, all these churches have the same Core Christian doctrines as the Roman Catholic Church. The liturgy practices are a little different. The Morman churches and the Jehovah Witnesses have different scriptures and these are considered in error and interwoven with false doctrines.

        • Stephen Dalton

          Your reply is sheer nonsense. The Catholic Church is Catholic for these reasons. The congregation are in union with the Pope, it has the deposit of faith, as taught in the three major creeds, and has apostolic succession. If your Catholic Churches are not in union with the Pope, reject the creeds and apostolic succession, they’re not Catholic. The other churches you mentioned do not have the same core Christian doctrines as the Catholic Church. Most of them don’t believe they receive Christ’s body and blood in bread and wine that’s transformed into his body and blood even though the bread and wine outwardly appears the same. Most also don’t believe in baptismal regeneration, either. And all of them believe in justification by faith alone, which the Catholic Church has never taught. The Catholic Church rightly teaches faith without works is dead. The faith alone heresy is the foundational doctrine of Protestantism, Luther himself said the Church (Protestant) stands or falls on this doctrine. Well since this is a false teaching, Protestantism is a fallen creed. So, your Protestant Churches may have a superficial resemblance in some of your doctrines, in the most important doctrine of all, there’s a 180 degree difference that says no!

        • Julie

          Hmmm. yes and no.

          The Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and Seventh Day Adventists all came out of the Stone Campbell movement in the 1800’s in America, most of them with little or no knowledge of Catholicism except the same old papist spin cartoons and prejudice. All of them considered the Great Roman Church the great apostate church. A few of them considered the protestants the Great Roman Church’s daughters….and I speak minus bad language.

          You don’t know that Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice in America.

          I know a lawyer who retired at 42. He told me he was the most maligned person in America because he was white, a businessman and Catholic.

          Mormonism is very different. And all 3 of them have been known to shun their own when they leave their beliefs. Mormonism has had to deal with coming out with all the testimony given by ex Mormons and they are finally coming clean that Joseph Smith did marry 30 plus women besides some of them still married, and was something of a charlatan. He did not write the Book of Mormon but a Stanley Rigly…my spelling off.

          There are the Independent Baptists who are intensely anti Catholic but many of them live in rural areas of the USA…hell and brimstone.

          And yet when they state they believe the true church disappeared, they can never decide when and where it happened. Not even the Mormons.

          Now i am hearing that this great falling away is starting to pass away as a foundational belief of Mormonism that has changed its beliefs and positions 3,000 times.

      • mikifenn

        Once saved, always saved is NOT in Evangelical Christianity. It’s Baptist.

        • Julie

          That is a common perception by Catholics, that evangelicals believe that. I know an in law thinks that in some evangelical gathering.

          • Grandmere

            They are the worst, nowadays.

        • It’s also part of some Calvinist teaching.

    • theophorus

      Well once again this depends on which protestant we’re talking about. I know most mainline protestant churchers are not OSAS but many(most?) evangelicals are.

      • Owen Schumacher

        “Once saved, always saved” is from Calvin? Given his insistence on predestination, that would make sense.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      YES it is – own it. Another false doctrine – all 40,000 sects teach different doctrines – so are any of them right – if so, which ones? NONE of them have Apostolic Authority or Heritage.

      • Joe M

        No, l don’t own it, it’s not true, it’s obviously not true, people cannot commit sins using Jesus Christ as a licence to sin. I have not known a church to do that and teach that but if there is one, then it belongs to Satan!

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Did you not read the article in its entirety? Luther advocating sinning just to prove Jesus’ grace – he said “Sin a thousand times a day” He also said, when asked about divorce, that he preferred bigamy to it. What sect do you belong to?

          • Joe M

            I am Presbyterian. If Luther really said such things then he is likely to be in hellfire. I don’t believe he made such statements. Those Christians in Lutheran churches do not behave in these ways. I don’t believe that but some churches have fallen to Satan, that’s true, and even in the best of churches, the devil has found his way in. Our whole life will be to fight him and drive him out. He wants God’ s place, we know that but we must not facilitate him.

          • He never wrote “The Jews and Their Lies”? Hitler never used “The Jews and Their Lies”?

          • Joe M

            He probably did dislike the Jews, all Christians disliked them for crucifying Jesus we said, but Roman Catholics hated the Jews too! However, l don’t hate them and in this age we don’t hate them but they are hated by the Muslims.

          • Julie

            Luther was the most anti semitic. And it was German Catholics who opposed the pope and bishops and slaughtered 2000 Jews in the Rheinland and Danube…headed by an AWOL Cistercian monk and rogue bishop…both reigned in. This happened at the beginning of the Crusades.

            We don’t know the dynamics between Catholics and Jews in those days either.

            But the Jews today don’t forget and don’t know the difference between when the Church orders something or when rogues take over…just like the ancient Christians who knocked down statues and were executed thinking they were martyrs when the Church considered their deaths as suicide.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Presbyterians ARE Calvinists.

          • Joe M

            No, John Knox was not a Calvinist, they are not but l have listened to Doctor James White, and his scripture is sound. I know if Jesus doesn’t like the teaching and preaching or he points certain errors out, so l just go by his opinion.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            James White – the Sophist?

          • James White, he extended a debate with us and when I chose the topic “the blood of saints” a link I sent you, he cut and run. You see Joe, all these guys want to debate is the issues you guys bring up: saints, works, …. but all the historic manipulation by Protestants to twist history is all off limit. So you think there were no Christians until Luther showed up? Before these so-called reformers the whole Christian world was Catholic. Did Jesus fail to build His church until Luther showed up to fix it?

            Think.

          • Joe M

            No, Walid, l know that the Christians were Roman Catholics until they broke with Rome and became just Catholics. Since that point they were called Protestants.

            Somehow, l find that Protestants don’t have memories like elephants and they don’t hold revenge attitudes, they just keep a background of historical knowledge rather than a heavy depressing know every detail of their persecution. This allow them to move on with a light heart, unlike Muslims who engage on the whole with living in the past, not allowing bygones to be bygones! This leads them to be vengeful!

            Probably, removing the Maccabees from the Bible was based on personal knowledge of suffering atrocities and trying to prevent that type of mentality. I am not saying that l agree that it was right to take that view.

            James White probably didn’t want to debate all about the aspects of martyrdom, and suffering, and that is kind of taboo with Protestants, kind of like why our grandparents did not like to discuss what they suffered in the war, because it opened up the wound. Although we their offspring didn’t suffer it, we absorbed the message that it was a taboo subject. Please forgive James White? I know you had problems between you, and l was irked about it, because you are both great men in the service of God.

          • Julie

            No…he is about the most formidable sophist. He is spends alot of time researching but at a shallow level and thus gives those who oppose the Catholic Church a sense they are getting objective instruction on past events when they don’t.

            He will quote or reference by name an Early Church Father but not carry through in what the ECF actually said..which would contradict Dr White’s position.

            He is so biased he lacks objectivity. For me, I don’t bother with biased writing as such…especially when dealing with the Sacred.

          • I have a friend of mine, a philosopher and student of Koine Greek, who was aghast at watching James White speak. The man knows nothing deep about Greek, doesn’t understand the Hebrewisms used in the Bible, and has little context of history. And he’s apparently the best they have. He would be (and frankly is, by everyone from Walid to Orthodox who have written to him to contest his silliness) trounced.

          • Julie

            Yes, definitely. Thanks and also read a remark that this guy quotes the ECF’s all the time…just reads their names….

          • THOMAS KING

            Even when I was within Independent Baptist circles, I could never stand James White. Even someone like Peter S Ruckman made more sense than he did. Not that I agree with everything Ruckman stands for.

          • The difference, good Thomas, is that you’re able to think and discern, to take the time to study as we are commanded to do, and not have pretend dialogs with our bad consciences like some on this list are wont to do. You earned your way to truth. Even shabby stones can support us onto a good road if we’re honest in our search.

          • Julie

            I read Luther’s dying words. And he had devotion to the Blessed Mother.

            Only God knows who goes to heaven and the nuns told us heaven would be full of surprises of who ended up there.

          • Grandmere

            Oh, he said it, alright. And so much more.

          • Owen Schumacher

            Yep, as King points out, that hyper-grace nonsense is called antinomianism. The Nicolaitans mentioned in chapter two of Revelation believed this, and Rasputin, “the mad monk,” was also an antinomian. And Luther, too! Great company, right?

        • Owen Schumacher

          “[P]eople cannot commit sins using Jesus Christ as a licence to sin.” Congratulations, Joe, you’re now no longer thinking like a Protestant. So what’s next? Catholic or Orthodox. Those are your choices. 😉

          • Joe M

            No, even my church preaches that Jesus is not a licence to sin, and they are right because if they got that wrong, l would confront them. I actually learned that point from Jesus long before l went to that church, in a discussion l was having with him when l was 15 years old. I was very advanced in my Christian knowledge, and l was allowed to test the Spirits which l did spiritually as an exercise in order to find a suitable church.

            So, l can tell you in all truth that before me came one who said ” God would not be cruel and allow his son to be crucified, and that God deceived Christians to belief that Jesus died on the Cross but he put someone else in his place” l was very shocked by that spirit and told it to get away from me as God was not a deceiver, and Jesus was our Saviour and it was a liar. I didn’t know anything about Islam at that time and not for years. I told Jesus about it and he said it was a liar.

            Yes, Muhammed did not make it up, he bought a lie from Satan, it was not from Muhamad’s own mind. There is such a spirit!

            I was not in danger, Jesus trusts me! I am a Protestant but l didn’t really know that until l came to this forum and you guys told me l was, certainly l don’t see everything in the way that you do! I would say that l am a spiritual Christian but in my church that’s an unusual vessel, and in any church that would be an unusual vessel, so shhhh, keep it a secret?

        • Julie

          Welllllllll…Luther did, and I know a Lutheran who told me he could go on sinning and go to heaven.

          And Christ…and our worship..the Mass…is the atonement for sin. …a big no no.

        • So at least this is progress.

          • Joe M

            I looked at your photo there. Dark eyes, intense stare. When l was 9 years old, Rudy, I knew more about God and the spiritual domain than you will ever know! That’s not boasting, it’s just a fact.

            Even if you learn all there is to know about the priesthood and what top theologians teach, you have been largely educated by men. Jesus and l, we approve of formal teaching and order in the ranks, we know it is good but don’t get arrogant about your postage stamp of knowledge. Your own progress, judging by the comments you make is scraping the ground.

          • Sure, Joe. This sort of talk would equate you with Jim Jones and every other cult leader who wished to sway people from God’s Church. Keep believing what you wish, however.

            As for my dark eyes and intense stare, you seem to be the only one of that opinion. Neither my friends, my family, the Shoebats, my woman, my nieces, my priest nor all those I either currently work with or have worked in the past with for almost three decades would share your opinion. And I didn’t know that grey eyes counted as dark. One learns a lot here.

      • mikifenn

        Well, there are Catholics who have different beliefs. Abortion, for instance. You have some high profile Catholics who promote abortion and rarely does the Catholic church condemn them. Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and many other politicians support abortion on demand.

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Miki – what is the CHURCH”S TEACHING on it? I can show you high profile Israelites that spurned their own teachings.

          • mikifenn

            I assume, Julie, you refer to the Old Testament? Or, do you refer to the present time? You said, what is the CHURCH”s TEACHING on it.” What do you mean by “it?” It’s difficult to reply when I have no clue what you mean.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            The subject was abortion. The Church teaches this is a mortal sin. You tried to impugn The Church by using the example of apostates – well, what say you about your high-profile Protestants that support abortion on demand – Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton?
            My point about the OT is to have you open your eyes that many OT leaders were heretics and apostates – If you will read what Jesus had to say, He was absolutely clear on this – The Church, at least the One that He founded, will have wheat and tares in It.

          • mikifenn

            Julie, I am an Evangelical Christian who believes that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. According to the Bible, Obama is not a born again Christian. If anything, his spiritual home appears to be Islam. Hillary is a Methodist. The majority of Methodist are liberal and many do not believe in the Virgin Birth, the miracles of Christ or the Resurrection. Most Methodist churches support abortion as well as gay marriage. Bill Clinton grew up as a Baptist, but has no apparent Christian faith at this time. So your analogy to them and the Catholics who support abortion has no validity. I have never known a born again Christian who supports abortion. It is obvious from reading the comments on Walid’s website that Catholics know absolutely zero about the wide range of beliefs within the NON-Catholic world. Most of you on this site seem to believe that Protestants are all alike. This is ridiculous and bordering on stupidity.

            The OT often portrays men and women in an honest way showing the way the are rather than the way they should be. The leaders of the Old Testament are to be admired–Moses, Joseph, Isaac, Jacob, Ruth, Deborah, even King David who sinned, grieved over his sin and repented and was called by God–“a man after my own heart” because King David loved God with all his heart. The prophets were men of God and persecuted because they told the people things they did not want to hear.

            I do not know who the apostates were that you refer to in the Old Testament. The word “apostate” was never used that I recall in the Old Testament. Even Rahab, a prostitute, had a great place in the heart of God after she saved the Army of Israel. She is listed in the New Testament as one of the ancestors of Christ in Mary’s genealogy.
            Perhaps you could explain to me who these apostates in the Old Testament are. Did you know that “apostate” is a favorite word of the Mormons?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Honestly? You don’t KNOW the OT leaders that were apostates? How do you decide what part of the Bible you read and ignore the rest? And why are pleading for this ‘in-fighting’ to cease while you are dumpling your share of coals?

          • mikifenn

            I have no idea who the OT leaders are that were apostates. I don’t use the word “apostates.” The only people I know abou t who use the word “apostates” are Mormons and some of the people here.. There were people in the OT who walked in the ways of the Lord and there were those who did not. Is the word “apostates” in the Bible? I’ve never seen it. I was not aware that I ignore parts of the Bible. I love the Bible which to me is the Word of God.
            Please give examples of the people in the OT you say are “apostates.”

        • Rapheal Sebastian

          A Catholic approving, providing funds, procuring and going through abortion is immediately excommunicated until she, (as in the case of the mother who killed her child) or he as in the case of promoters and procurers confess, seek absolution and penance. Those that continue to receive the Eucharist despite being in the state of his mortal sin has compounded the sin by receiving the Holy Eucharist unworthily. The Church has not wavered on this and never will, ABORTION IS MURDER, similarly those that support contraception, divorce, fornication etc etc have committed a grave sin against God as the Church teaches. Until and unless they regain communion with the Church through the Sacrament of Reconciliation, receives absolution and does penance they are excommunicated. There is no need for the Pope to expressly state so and so is excommunicated, this is what is called Latae sententiae. Self excommunication by deed and acts that are contrary to Church teachings.

          • mikifenn

            Our former Governor who went to Mass every Sunday and took Communion was an ardent supporter of abortion. She was not ex-communicated.

          • Grandmere

            Same with Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi John Kerry and a host of other politicians.

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            I think you misunderstand what excommunication is. This link clearly explains it. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

            As far as the Church’s teachings, the gov of MA is excommunicated, while receiving the Holy Eucharist unworthily she compounds her grave sin. A priest cannot deny a communicant the Eucharist even though he may know that a person is in grave sin. However some priests do and openly reject presenting the Holy Eucharist to some. I am for priest who actually refuse the Holy Eucharist to those who are in grave sin. The sin of receiving unworthily the Eucharist is on the communicant. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is clear on this.

            Everyone will have to answer in the end, and God will have His judgment meted out. One can think one can get away with being pro-murder or abortion, contraception, adultery, divorce etc while on Earth yet professing to be Catholic, but every penny and ever word and deed shall be accounted for.

          • Tom_mcewen

            There is automatic ex-communication, she has it.

        • Julie

          Oh they do!! But they excommunicate themselves.

          However, there is a type of relaying and we of the flock know what the point is….Ted Kennedy made a very good confession at his death…

          and in spite of all his bad, he could be one of the surprises, mikifenn who you will encounter when you go to heaven.

    • Julie

      Good to know.

      Realize you are also talking with Americans and we are exposed to about 40,000 denominations and many different churches in our own local neighborhoods.

    • Actually, yes it is. Joe, you really need to take the time to study this from professionals, not from self-study, which always leads to self delusion.

      • Joe M

        Oh man, l was taught by the Lord himself. You can see that and Satan makes you jealous and tells you to insult me. You are small minded Rudy, and egotistical, and that always leads to self delusion.

        Who am l? I took no money, l did not prostitute my gift. What l have seen is not for your eyes. I know who l am and where l came from and where l will return to! Believe whatever you wish, go off in your own direction. The only one l take study from is the one who trained me, and he has full confidence in me and l in him!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The Catholic Church has the BODILY PRESENCE of Christ – not just a spiritual presence – this fact of the Bread IS his flesh and the wine IS His blood – a fact of which Jesus clearly spoke, yet most protestants DENY – fact which is proven through the many Eucharistic Miracles. The Catholic Church has 250 Saints whose bodies have NOT corrupted – can you point to any protestant that has an incorrupted body?

    • colin

      Protestant don’t make idols out of dead people so we have never checked.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        This proves you have no roots in the Jewish religion as revealed by God.

        • colin

          Oh ye the Jews made idols out of dead people..

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Go read the OT – PLEASE.

          • susan

            I don’t think it’s in the version of bible Colin.

          • susan

            Is Jesus on the cross an idol that Jews use today?

      • Grandmere

        You are right. You make idols out of live people.

        • colin

          Proof?

        • Tom_mcewen

          Snap

      • So whats ticking you off today? When someone says “Luther” you say “The Pope” and when someone says “Luther” you say Tyndale and when someone says “Luther” you say “Prayer to Saints” and when someone says “Luther” you say “Mary” and when someone says “Luther” you say ….

        You worship a guy named Luther, don’t you? Common now, admit it..

        • Dave Knapp

          You worship s works based man made religion..,,enjoy your works based salvation-except that it WONT save you. Sorry you got hooked up with the crazy charismatic types when you converted. Unfortunately, you have traded the truth of the scripture, the gospel you claim to believe, for the lie of Catholicism, whose works and martyrdom is all in vain…

          • Stephen Dalton

            Why do haters like you come to sites like this? We stay away from your sites, but you and others like you feel compelled to come here and vomit all over us. If you’re so sure of what you believe, you shouldn’t need to come here. You must be unsure of what you believe in, for if you really believed in your faith, you would be evangelizing for it, instead of coming here and hating on us.

          • Grandmere

            They are like Pavlov’s dogs. When the “bell” rings, they start to salivate.

      • susan

        Did Jesus die on the cross?

        • colin

          Yes Jesus died on the cross; however the question that needs to answer is was his death on the cross sufficient to save you?

          • susan

            Sufficient to save me if i continue in a sinful state of non-repentance? No.

          • colin

            What a strange statement…

            What do you mean by:- continue in a sinful state of non-repentance.

            My experience was that I simply turned to God in repentance; meaning I changed my mind and sought God for help by saying a prayer. “God I am fed up being this way change me”

            I lay down on my bed at which a physical wind left me; then another wind blew into my stomach after which I sat up and spoke in tongues.

            That was the start of the Christian walk; within 3 months I had what you could call a visitation from God where he spoke to me for 1-1/2 hours about my calling, what he was going to do to prepare me, attacks that the devil would deploy against me the church and it’s condition and what he planned to do in the next move of the Spirit of God. I was delivered from drugs and set free from a curse on my life and a devil cast out that made me extremely violent.

            I was and still am a completely different person and I am and always will be eternally grateful for Christ saving a wretched like me.

            Sorry for the long spiel (story) but in my mind if you truly meet the living God then your life will be so radically changed that the inner tendency towards sin will be dealt a death blow.

            Thats why I find your statement strange.

          • susan

            If all it takes to be good is an encounter with God then what happened to Judas? Why did so many of Jesus’ followers complain that this teaching is too hard and who can listen to it and left Jesus?John 6:48-71

          • colin

            What benefit of there time with Christ did Peter or any of the disciples get from there time with him as all of them deserted Christ and fled.

            Christ said: “Deny thyself,” and in spite of that he denied his Lord.

            But I thank God for the story of Peter; when we look at his character, so full of failures, and at what Christ made him by the power of the Holy Spirit, there is hope for every one of us.

            Then, on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came, and Peter was a changed man. I do not want you to think only of the change in Peter, in that boldness, that power, that insight into the Scriptures, and that blessing with which he preached that day. Thank God for that. But there was something deeper and better which happened to Peter. His whole nature was changed. The work that Christ began in Peter when He looked upon him was perfected when he was filled with the Holy Spirit.

            If you want to see that, read the first epistle of Peter. You know wherein Peter’s failings lay. When he said to Christ, in effect: “Thou never canst suffer; it cannot be”- it showed he did not have a conception of what it was to pass through death into life. Christ said: “Deny thyself,” and in spite of that he denied his Lord.

            When Christ warned him: “Thou shalt deny me” Matthew 26:34, and he insisted that he never would, Peter showed how little he understood what there was in himself. But when I read his epistle and hear him say: “If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye, for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you” I Peter 4:14, then I say that it is not the old Peter, but that it is the very Spirit of Christ breathing and speaking within him.

            Christ within; prior to pentecost Christ was without.

          • Julie

            And the point here is…that Christ chose a weak, impetuous man to lead His Church….a treasure in clay.

            Every one comes to his own y of the road…he yields to the grace of office or he turns to respect men and lose his soul and bring damage to the Church.

          • susan

            We are perfected when the Holy Spirit enters us? The work is completed?

          • colin

            Let the words of Peter convince you…

            Acts 15:8-9 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

            When they reached out by faith they received the Holy Spirit who cleansed their hearts.

          • susan

            So now we’re perfected when we’re filled with the Holy Spirit as you claim Peter was perfected?Then why did Paul have to rebuke Peter?

            You swim in circles.

          • colin

            You jumped the gun, I never said Peter was perfected you assumed that’s what I meant.

            Although you are filled with the Spirit; you don’t become an automaton; you can chose to disobey.

          • susan

            “The work that Christ began in Peter when He looked upon him was perfected when he was filled with the Holy Spirit.”

            Did you mean what you wrote?

          • Julie

            God bless you for your deliverance..now keep going forward in the truth..there is so much for you to learn still.

          • Joe M

            Great Colin. The sin offering; Jesus, waited on you to acknowledge him and seek his forgiveness. Such joy, Angels sung in heaven that day, the day you were saved. Keep right on to the end of the road and win your crown Colin, you will!

          • Grandmere

            But, Joe! He did not follow your instructions. He was lying on his bed, not the floor. And he was not naked.

          • Joe M

            A person doesn’t always need to be naked and on the floor to be possessed by God. However, the chap who was getting no response from God, should have been more humble and begged him, in all humility, to accept his person.

            If l think that l may have displeased God, l would have no hesitation to show my humility in this way. It’s only proper that respect for God is given, and God knows we cannot hide ourselves in clothes and haughtiness. Be naked before the Lord, your God.

          • Grandmere

            Joe M. just said you did it all wrong! According to Joe, you should have been naked and lying on the floor. Consult Joe and try it again.

          • colin

            Isn’t it funny how a minion starts acting like their master…

          • Dave Knapp

            That simply means you’ve never believed period…

          • susan

            My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

          • susan

            Whatever.

          • Dave Knapp

            Yes it was and yes it has….

    • Joe M

      I have had this conversation with you previously Julie. There’s no point in going through it again. As you should be aware by now that we proddies claim to have the presence of Jesus Christ with us in accordance with his promise that when 2 or 3 are gathered in his name, he will be present. So, he is present when we take the bread and wine and acknowledge that it represents his flesh and blood and we remember his sacrifice for us. Jesus is with us now as we write because His Holy Spirit dwells within us!

      If Jesus asked me if l would like to have the stigmata, l would say No, Lord, l don’t want to as it sounds morbid. Actually, Jesus doesn’t like morbidity! Its about Jesus, not us, we should keep away from what is morbid. I don’t want to see flesh and blood and that’s my choice, you have your choice. Don’t seek to persuade me?

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Paul had the stigmata (Gal 6:17) – your problem, with most of all Protestantism, is that you reject Suffering – something of which is a clear command of scripture. Padre Pio had the stigmata, bled a pint of blood everyday for 50 years – and his body is incorrupt to this day. Jesus said to pick up your cross or you are not worthy.

        • colin

          Now your confusing a stigmata in the catholic sense; with the wounds that Paul suffered from his beatings for preaching the gospel..

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You don’t have a clue.

          • I thought edwitness was a fool. I think we found a new champ.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Another organ-grinding primate.

          • At least organ-grinding primates have their charm, and I’m happy to give them a coin. These people? No.

          • Grandmere

            Can we have a drum rollllllllllllllllllll. SNAP

          • And a half!

          • Dave Knapp

            No…YOU don’t….

        • Julie

          It is the demon guy …don’t waste your time feeding sacrilege and blasphemy.

        • Joe M

          Paul referred to an issue with his health, but did reference what that issue was which has led to speculation. It was more likely to be a problem with his company conscience for participating and encouraging the stoning of Stephen. However, many think that it was a problem with his eyes after being rendered blind, but it was not because Jesus sent a prophet to restore Paul’s sight and l am convinced that the prophet of Jesus did that job perfectly!

          If all Christians were to desire the stigmata, who would they manage to work and assist people including their own families?

          The possibility that fraud could be employed to create the stigmata can not be ruled out, the stigmata is not something to be desired and it takes the focus away from Jesus and puts in on the one with the stigmata who is then possibly worshipped in place of Jesus.

          Suffering, just like Jesus seems to nullify why Jesus suffered for us. It is said that he suffered for our sins but you think that we need to add to that divine act by suffering ourselves. Of course, we may be forced to suffer rather than deny Jesus, but that’s a different point!

          As for incorrupt bodies, Prophet Moses body was allowed to decay, although Arch Angel Michael did dispute with Satan over the matter but Satan demanded his right. Only the body of our Lord Jesus Christ was not to touched by decay because only he had never sinned. As according to the Gospels everyone who has lived and who will live has fallen prey to the wiles of Satan and all have sinned except for Jesus, and only God has never sinned.

          Mankind has had the knowledge of embalming for thousands of years, the Egyptians were excellent at that procedure and there are different methods and herbs that can be used. As far as scripture says, all will decay except for Jesus Christ. But of course, embalming can stop the process of decaying , or freezing the body to can stall decay.

          By the way Julie, l endured suffering which l don’t like to talk about and l never lost my trust in Jesus during the many years l suffered as a child. Even when l thought God must dislike me, he assured me that he loved me and my food was Jesus Christ for l had little to eat and went days without eating. At the age of 12 years old, l stood in a queue in a chip shop for heat in the winter, as l moved near to the front of the queue, l would offer my place to the person behind me and move to the end of the queue again. All the time l did this, l was hungry and the smell of the food made my torture worse. I had no money and no one person offered me food yet l am sure that they saw my plight, and certainly the staff would definitely be aware of my distress. However, l was grateful that they allowed me to stay in their warm shop for hours on end until they shut up the shop. I used to leave 15 minutes prior to closure rather than be ordered to go. I endured taunts, remarks such as ” we supply everything here, even free heat and light”. Many a time, l thought l would not survive my ordeal. And you have only been told about a fraction of my suffering.

          Today, l am a well off person, who is overly generous to the poor. I gave a magnificent present of a large food hamper to my minister this Christmas ( and he’s not poor though he thinks he is!) yet he didn’t even give me a Christmas card in return and l think that he should have done, l didn’t want anything else. Yes, mug is my middle name, but that’s what l am!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Dear Joe – it seems you have fallen prey for Martin Luther’s rejection of suffering. I ask you to read the following verses and decide for yourself whether or not scripture teaches and advises suffering for salvation:

            Colossians 1:24

            “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your
            sake, and in my flesh I am filing up WHAT IS LACKING in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the Church.”
            2 Timothy 4:6-7

            “For I am already being poured out like a libation, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have competed well; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith.”
            Philippians 1:29-30

            “For to you it has been granted, for the sake of Christ, not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him. Yours is the same struggle as you saw in me and now hear about me.”
            2 Timothy 2:12

            ‘IF we suffer, we shall also reign with him…”

            1 Corinthians 9:27

            “but I pommel my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others, I myself might not be disqualified.”

            2 Corinthians 12:7

            “..Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I begged the Lord about this, that it might leave me, but he said to me ‘My grace
            is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.’…Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.”

            1 Peter 4:13

            “ But rejoice to the extent that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that when his glory is revealed you may also
            rejoice exultantly.”

            Romans 8:17

            “ and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, IF ONLY WE SUFFER with him so that we may also be glorified with him.”

            1 Corinthians 11:30-32

            “For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ILL AND INFIRM, and a considerable number are DYING. If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by the Lord, are being DISCIPLINED we so that we may not be condemned along with the world.”

            1 Peter 4:18-19

            “And if the righteous one is barely saved, where will the godless and the sinner appear? As a result, THOSE WHO SUFFER in accord with God’s will , commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.”

            Acts 14:22

            “We must through much tribulation enter the Kingdom of God.”

            Hebrews 11:35

            “Women received back their dead through resurrection. Some were tortured and would not accept deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection.” (see 2 Maccabees 7:7)

            Hebrews 12:5-6

            “…My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord
            or lose heart when reproved by him; for whom
            the Lord loves, he chastens, and SCOURGES EVERY SON he acknowledges. If you endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then you are BASTARDS AND NOT SONS.”

          • Joe M

            We read that in different ways, our understanding is different, you think that you have to take a whip to your back by your own hand for Jesus. Why, when you go to a priest and he chastises you?

            I, in my understanding believe that these scriptures point out to us that we will suffer for our Christianity. I know that is a fact particularly in this age! We will suffer because the enemies of our Lord in their spiritual war with him caused him to suffer and the same anti- Christ spirit will not treat us any better. So, we suffer, but not at our own hands.

            True, the Lord approves of our humiliation when we have become arrogant and smug and he takes us down to teach us a lesson that he doesn’t like haughty eyes! We should also remember that Satan hates us and he will set his slaves apon us, but how many times does God rescue us from these brutes, he does, he has, he will!

            I have suffered much like Job. I want no more of it, I need no more of it. God knows my mettle! Satan exists unfortunately and he intends to silence us, zip our mouths, oppress us and build a wall around us, but we will sound our trumpets and blow his wall down! That’s what a God expects of his sons, that they will triumph and be worthy of his name.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You didn’t even bother to read and let it soak in. Paul said he POMMELED HIS BODY DAILY. All that Luther wished has come true- NO SUFFERING in the Body of Christ.

          • Joe M

            Paul should not have beat himself up, that’s disgusting.

            Actually Julie, that part must have been removed from the Protestant Gospels because l have never seen it. I have suffered for Jesus and know that l will suffer and it is horrible, but l would never wrap myself up in a religion that calls for and glorifies masochism and sadism. I would reject such a religion, as a religion of satanism.

            Paul should not have advocated depressing practices. Jesus is of light not of dark practices. From the scriptures as given to Paul, l see a pious, good man, one who was strongly spiritual and everything l can respect, but for his initial errors which were beastly.

            I don’t believe that some demon lodged in him made him beat himself, and certainly God didn’t do the beating! Don’t spread that around about Paul, as the muslims will use it against him, l am surprised that they have not found that to use, they glean everything that they can for their vile purpose, yet strangely they have not used that one, one that is quaranteed to discredit Paul in the eyes of many Christians.

            Of ancient Christian sects, l know that perverse practices developed such as whipping themselves and wearing clothes that hurt. Do you not know that you are made in the image of God, and if you hurt yourself, you are hurting his image, and we know that this is the works of Satan.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            #1 – “that part must have been removed from the Protestant Gospels because l have never seen it… I would reject such a religion, as a religion of Satanism.”
            #2 “Paul should not have advocated depressing practices… but for his initial errors which were beastly.
            All I can say to you is: Wow.

            Guess you too reject Purgatory because you don’t believe that God will make us suffer – here you go, have fun with these verses that clearly point to purgatory – SUFFERING AT THE HANDS OF GOD:

            Matthew 18:23-35

            “Then in anger his master handed him over to the TORTURERES until he should PAY BACK the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father DO TO YOU, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart.

            Matthew 5:22-26

            “But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother ‘Raqa’, shall be in danger of the council; but whoever shall say ‘Thou fool’, shall be in danger of hell-fire. Therefore, if thou
            bring thy gift to the altar, and there recall that your brother has anything against you, leave your gift there at the altar, go first and be reconciled with your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Settle with your opponent quickly while on
            the way to court with him. Otherwise your opponent will hand you over to the judge, and the judge will hand you over to the guard, and you will be THROWN INTO PRISON. Amen, I say to you, you will not be released UNTIL YOU HAVE PAID BACK the last penny.”

            Luke 12:46-48

            “then that servant’s master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the unfaithful. That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will SHALL BE BEATEN SERVERELY;
            and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way DESERVING OF A SEVERE BEATING shall be
            BEATEN ONLY LIGHTLY. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.”

            How preposterous to claim this is a religion of Satan – when GOD UTTTERED THESE WORDS.

          • colin

            Joe M

            A link to the Foxe’s Book of Martyrs.. there you can read about proddies who were Martyr for there faith..

            http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/foxs-book-of-martyrs/

            You use a Irish/West Coast of Scotland term for protestant were are you from? – I am from Aberdeen Scotland..

          • You cited Foxe’s Book of Martyrs? You are a joke. No scholar of any repute takes that trash seriously.

          • colin

            look at the reply below

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Trash book – Walid is no fool.

          • Absolute junk (see below)

          • Dave Knapp

            Absolute junk: 95% of the articles on Walids site…

          • Stephen Dalton

            100% junk, all of your comments.

          • colin

            Something I have noticed; is were you find Julie there you find Walid….

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Great minds think alike.

          • colin

            The innocent but gullible Julie.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Gullible? Hardly- if I were I would believe your false narrative.

          • colin

            Gullible – you belive the catholic narrative tricked in life and death..

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Which is the same narrative that Christ taught.

          • Dave Knapp

            Nope…sorry, but thanks for playing…

          • Dave Knapp

            Fools flock together

          • Grandmere

            Dave, Colin and Joe. Quite a flock. Did Joe get you and Colin to get naked yet?

          • Dave Knapp

            He did….and you do NOTHING but misinterpret them….

          • Grandmere

            Whoa!!!!!!!! That your answer fell into line with my question is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • colin

            A link to the Foxe’s Book of Martyrs.. there you can read about proddies who were Martyr for there faith..

            http://www.biblestudytools.com

            You use a Irish/West Coast of Scotland term for protestant were are you from? – I am from Aberdeen Scotland..

          • Joe M

            Hi Colin, thanks. You may have noted that Walid asked me if l could give some indication of the numbers of Protestant martyrs, you know it was so many that count is lost. Many were imprisoned in cemeteries and tortured daily, made to stand in vats of boiling water. They also robbed them of every penny which was part of the reason for the torture.

            I mentioned to Walid about Foxe Book of Protestant martyrs. I hope he spots your link. I don’t know why he asked me about how many Protestant martyrs laid down their lives because l don’t cast that up to Roman Catholics, we cannot blame them, ever!

          • Julie

            And there were many Catholics who did not want to leave their faith for Henry either.

          • Tom_mcewen

            Henry the V
            We lose the better half of our possession:

            For all the temporal lands which men devout

            By testament have given to the church

            Would they strip from us; being valued thus:

            As much as would maintain, to the king’s honour,

            Full fifteen earls and fifteen hundred knights,

            Six thousand and two hundred good esquires;

            And, to relief of lazars and weak age,

            Of indigent faint souls past corporal toil.

            A hundred almshouses right well supplied;

            And to the coffers of the king beside,

            A thousand pounds by the year: thus runs the bill. this was the social safety net, Henry VIII closed the monstasteries and the old, the sick, the hungry died

          • Grandmere

            And as much as he was willing to turn the world upside down for a male heir, it was left up to Mary and Elizabeth to try to clean up the mess. Alas, neither could.

          • Julie

            Yes it was the monasteries that supported surrounding populations and they became poor under Henry and his successors. Similar happened in Mexico.

          • Grandmere

            Poor old Hank didn’t want to leave either! LOL “let’s see, Defender of the Faith, or Roller the hay”? He made a big mistake

          • Julie

            He did…well what I read about him, full of syphillis, his body exploded…nationalist…and the English queens better.

          • Joe M

            I only used that term proddies because that’s what the Roman Catholics called us in my area, Fife. Yes, a lot of the Roman Catholics immigrated to Scotland from Ireland. You know what they were like but we sorted them out and didn’t have to put up with the terrorism of Ireland. We outnumbered them and they grew quieter and stopped their nonsense, yet we did not persecute them, and the most they could complain about was they were passed over for promotions, whether imagined or true, l don’t know but it was probably true. I remember my dad teaching me the Masonic handshake to give to the interviewer, and l got the job!

          • colin

            Fife – I nearly moved there when I was a teenager the Old man got offered a job at Mossmorran but he didn’t take the job. I grew up in Morayshire there was no strife between proddies/catholics I guess because the Irish didn’t immigrate up there as there was no heavy industry.

            What Kirk do you attend?

          • Joe M

            Presbytarian. There was not much strife between proddies and Catholics . A few would call us heathens! I remember one who called me that name and l responded by saying that l was a believer in God. He said, you are not Roman Catholic so you are a heathen so l said to him l can see that you would like me to be a heathen and l would like to make you happy, so l wrestled him to the ground and banged his head on the concrete while encouraging him to apologise which in due course he did. I certainly knocked some sense into him because we became good friends afterwards. Not nice, true!

          • Julie

            I am of Irish descent and live in America and we also know what happened to the Irish in Ireland when the Scot Picts came over and to this day treat them so badly…recalling the annual bonfires.

            Masonry is condemned…and its highest levels use a different language and meaning than the store front Masons, the ordinary ones who go about town doing good deeds.

          • colin

            The Scots and Picts are different peoples; the Scots came from Ireland while the Picts were the Celtish tribe in what was known as Caledonia by the Romans in Latin or Albion in greek.

            In the early 1600’s, the Scots joined a small Irish population. Since poor Ulster had been decimated by more than 50 years of war at the time of the Plantations, there were not many Irish. AND, contrary to popular belief, they were not “run off”! If you doubt me, read Elliott The Catholics of Ulster –or any number of history books.

            In 1641, many Ulster Scots were killed by the Irish in the Rising, but we are not sure how many. We do not know how many people were in Ulster as many had fled to Scotland in the 1630’s to avoid the Black Oath. In 1642, more Scots arrived to defend the survivors as part of Monroe’s army. It founded the first Presbyterian Presbytery in Ireland. Before that, there was none.

            In the 1680’s more Scots came to Ireland, fleeing the Killing Times (Catholic King killing covenanters (protestants)) Scotland.

            True we still have an annual bonfire where symbolically burn the a catholic called Guy Fawks; for his part in the gun powder plot (Jesuit Treason) which he planned to blow up the Houses of Parliament.

            However Scotland today is littered with monuments remembering the Martyrs that suffered at the hands of the papacy and there minions.. Others like the covenanters (protestants) if not killed were transported to the Caribbean to work on the plantations as slaves.

          • Julie

            Yes….we saw on tv here in USA about the Bonfires against the Catholics and the marching through the streets of the Catholics…and isn’t St. Patrick buried in Northern Ireland?

            Mine came from Ulster…the Catholic south.

          • Joe M

            The Scots and Irish have historic friendships and kinship Julie. Maybe you are thinking of the English, they oppressed the Irish and the Scots. An Englishman could not trust an Irishman to fight against the Scots (as mercenaries) because if these nations were pitted against each other, they would meet in the middle of the battlefields, hug each other, and unite to fight against the English.

          • Julie

            Yes I am primarily thinking of the English…it was in my family up to my dad,….and my great grandfather came here in the 1870’s.

            The Scots and Irish speak Gaelic which derived from Indo China and have the same lilt I hear from those in India working the call centers for AOL. I studied 5th year language study at the U of WA.

          • Joe M

            Researching the history of Gaelic, we go back to the Picts. However, it was thought that Ireland spread Gaelic to Scotland but actually it was found that Scots spoke Gaelic before the Irish. China is not the root language. China did not conquer the Picts nor the Scots or Irish, and we have never been invaded or had even modest immigration from China up until the present age where we now have recent immigration.

            There is no comparison between Indian and Gaelic. In essence there is much written about how there has always been massive immigration but that is invented to serve the present agenda of attempting to brain wash the indigenous people that they are very much a mongrel race, and should submit to a deluge of foreigners into their nations to subvert their culture. It’s simply not true!

            Blood samples have been taken from the indigenous people and various types of research that showed that the people of Scotland on the whole have the same gene pool and blood groups common to the land, and most in their lives have not moved far from their anscestral home ground, and the place they were born.

            I have a European daughter-in-law, Polish, she has a rare blood group that Scots don’t have.

            We know from our own lifespan with our families that most live out their lives within 50 miles of their birth place. Scots have immigrated to America and Australia within the last 300 years. They don’t tend to immigrate to Ireland but the Irish have always immigrated to Scotland. It is thought that the Scots were originally from Ireland and we find name linkage.

            Scotland was invaded by the Picts, and Vikings and Romans and Celts. We held the Romans at bay on the whole in Scotland. It becomes pointless to imagine that there were empty lands until the Africans travelled out. We never saw a black faced person in our lands 70 years ago, and we had no mixed colour people because we did not import slavery. The simple truth is back in the past Scotland was a harsh environment and rough and rugged and it was not a country where people desired to invade and immigrate to. The invaders, the Picts, Romans, Celts, Vikings, preferred to return to their own lands, few stuck around, but indeed some were forced to do so, and make the best of their folly. Even the English didn’t want to live in historic Scotland, it was too rough for them. In the present times, we do have a good percentage of English people here.

            We were a cultured people historically, poetry was a great recreation. However, after the poetry was read, the nobility threw the bones of their dinner onto the floor. Our kings usually obtained their princess brides when their ships wrecked off our coasts as the lady made her way to civilised England or France to be married. These ladies,

          • Julie

            Yes, Scotland is a rough place. And we have a sheltie who refuses to play in the little dogs’ area and prefers to be with the big dogs and can hold is his own. He jumped a somersault over our new collie.

            Ha ha…about Indo Chinese…that is an academic term, doesn’t mean gaelic derived from the Chinese. But yes, Gaelic is traced back to India. I did not study the actual phonetic, linguistic lineage, but yes it is there….You would have to take it up with the University of Washington for 5th year study as the text does show Gaelic coming from Indo Chinese. And living among Asians as well in Seattle, and married to a Filipino whose great grandfather was Chinese with a long pony tail….No, I cannot say I even detect the slightest of any chinese race or in the language among the Scots.

            Thanks for your fine sharing! Happy New Year!

          • Joe M

            Well, l will not take it up with the University of Washington but maybe their graduates at the language department need to ask for their money back because India has nothing to do with historic Scotland. Queen Victoria did bring in a couple of Indian footmen and was very good to them. One in particular lost sight that he was meant to be a servant. They were regarded as curiousities! That wasn’t too far back in time and the Gaelic was well established. In the lowlands of Scotland, the language wasn’t spoken, just in the basically inaccessible Highlands which kind of rules out massive immigration or invasion, leading to indigenous people adopting some form of Indian language as their native tongue!

            It never seems to occur to language experts as to how various countries really acquire their spoken tongue, and these academic courses are modern, looking for root languages, believing in the sources to be invasion and immigration when in fact the native tongue of the people invariable stem from centuries, many centuries of grunts and groans and moans and tonal expressions passed from parent to child down through the centuries, that eventually developed into an understandable language by the kith and kin and spreading clan roots. There you are, l told you that for free!

            Scotland in this modern age has everything a modern country has, fine universities, and liberal politicians, culture, fine arts, fine dining and wealth. The weather makes us a bit dour though!

            A guid New Year tae ain an aw an monie mai ye see. An durin aw the years tae come, O happy mai ye be!

          • Julie

            No dear….we are going back farther…and as it’s New Years I want to be a little funny right now…when first using computer, I called the call center and a young man answered. As I have lived in foreign countries, I am always keen to people’s accents.

            Honestly, I couldn’t tell at first if he was Indian or Irish. I finally asked him, and he was not forthcoming at first, may be anticipating I would get mad as an American lost his job to India…but he did say he was in India.

            So there is nothing in this post referring to Scotland for now.

            Look, Scotland is a fine country and I prefer their little laddie dogs. I love dogs. But especially those originating from Scotland. So when it comes to them, my preference is Scotland.

            Have to go make New Year’s dinner, one person remarking the day has gone by a wee too fast!

          • Julie

            And my great grandmother came from Swansea, Wales, and it is so different, but have never studied their roots. But my son and grandson LOVE Thomas the Train !!! Our house is full of Thomas this and that.

          • Joe M

            Interesting. You probably have Scottish genealogy too, who knows, we have a saying “we’re aw Jock Tamsan’s bairns,” because the Scots did spread their seed throughout America, we punched above our weight because we are a wee nation of 6 million.

          • Julie

            I do…my mother’s side…she is the aristocrat….her lineage traces back to colonial times….my sister and cousin could get into DARS…very exclusive women’s club….and we don’t want it….My mother’s side is English, Scotch, her grandfather part Pennsylvania Dutch…which is Low German. They entered Virginia, went through the South to Missouri when it was a territory….

            And liked reading English literature….the best I think in the world…and the references to Scotland….loved reading it in rainy times of the year.

          • Joe M

            Americans love Scotland, don’t know why, but l quess it’s quite different. Andrew Carnegie was our famous son of Scotland. There are many famous Scots, inventors, scientists, doctors.

            St Andrew’ s University, Aberdeen University, and Edinburgh University are ancient and are rated as tops.

            Regards.

          • Julie

            And please know YOU ARE OFF THE HOOK! Do you know what that means? It is the Irish that have kept their Hindi roots…yes..I reviewed some things…but remember, they are Catholic now.

            The Irish sound like Indians when doing customer service or– the Indians sound like Irish doing customer service…BUT there are NO Scots!!!

          • Joe M

            Well, thank you, Julie. I have heard loads of Irish accents, and honestly they definitely don’t sound Indian, and l know because in my workplace in a multi-media company, l speak to lots of Indian people too! It was difficult understanding the broad Irish speakers, particularly learning whether they mean “two or three” when they use those words. Yes, in the south of Ireland most are Roman Catholic, but in Northern Ireland they are mostly known as Protestants.

            Scots to English and foreign ears sound exactly like each other even though there are three different accents. The West coast accent is different from the East coast accent, and up north is different from down south.

          • Julie

            Yes, I can understand that. And the Indians also speak more with nasal projection than the Irish.

            The whole Irish thing is very popular in America. But I was very insulted at Kathleen’s of Ireland, when some guy popped his head in the shop among the ladies on St. Patrick’s Day telling everyone he was getting drunk that day.

            I wanted to chase him out and kick him in the seat of the pants…sorry but I thought he looked like he came from the Scot Picts who came into Ireland.

          • Julie

            Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

          • Julie

            I wouldn’t take it up with the U of WA…one of the top twenty universities in the USA. The Huskies bite…may be even harder than a tough Sheltie like mine. His name is Hennie Penn…Pin Head for short when he can’t stop barking. Know about them types???

          • Joe M

            I don’t have a dog at the moment. I had a little Scottie terrier, called Trixie. She lived to a good old age. My sister’s dog is a Collie, a black and white farm dog, but popular now as domestic pets. l can’t have even a hypoalergenic dog such as a Cockapoo, part spaniel and poodle, because my son has asthma. He receives treatment but can’t go into a room where a dog has been, so l see all the cute dogs but just admire them from afar.

            We had steak pie for dinner as that’s traditional in Scotland on New Year’s Day. Hope you had a nice dinner.

            God bless.

          • Julie

            That is OK if you don’t have a dog. You pass.

          • Julie

            I love Celtic dogs. They are wonderful. We are not seeing the collies like before. Mine is a Van M from New Jersey, best bred. But her grandfather has long hair and she does as well, and came out larger than my white sable male from Texas.

            Problem is that they need so much grooming all the time.

            My daughter’s in laws have these tiny Westminster terriers and one is so tiny and spunky, and likes to sit down on the toe of people’s shoes. Good little dog.

          • Joe M

            How many dogs do you have? Sounds as if you are busy with them. I like poodles but l don’t like the way the French groom them, they look ugly with their faces shaved but they are nice with just a little trim and shaping around the face, and fur all over their bodies, the smallest ones are cute.

          • Julie

            Two with my sister’s rat terrier. French poodles are supposed to be rated the most intelligent and the shelties in the top 10.

          • Colin,

            The Book of Martyrs says:

            “This was followed by a severe persecution against the Albigenses; and express orders that the laity should not be permitted to read the sacred Scriptures. In the year 1620 also, the persecution against the Albigenses was very severe. In 1648 a heavy persecution raged throughout Lithuania and Poland. The cruelty of the Cossacks was so excessive that the Tartars themselves were ashamed of their barbarities. Among others who suffered was the Rev. Adrian Chalinski, who was roasted alive by a slow fire, and whose sufferings and mode of death may depict the horrors which the professors of Christianity have endured from the enemies of the Redeemer.”

            This is simply one error out of thousands. The book is worthless and has been exposed by many historians.

            Albigenses followed a cultist named Mani (a homosexual who ate human seaman, a real sicko). The Albigenses believed that the Incarnation of Christ never occurred; the sufferings of Christ and the Eucharist were an illusion, and even life itself was considered by Mani to be an abomination from which all of humanity should seek to be free.

            This antihuman doctrine spread to Armenia where its subscribers called themselves Paulicians, and then this sect made its way to the Balkans where it influenced a man in Bulgaria named Bogomil, who would start his own cult in his country. Though Bogomilism went underground, it continued to grow like bacteria growing stronger in static murky water in the summer heat. It spread to Italy and by the twelfth century it made its way to France where its followers would call themselves Cathars, from the Greek word “pure.”

            In a council conducted in Toulouse in 1119, presided by pope Calixtus II, the Cathars were anathematized as heretics. By 1165 the Cathars had become so numerous that they began to preach in the open, with the Catholic bishops too fearful to protest. They soon commenced to form their own church separate from Roman Catholicism, establishing as their own bishop one Barthelemy in their city of Albi, where they built the Cathar community–the strongest in southern France. It was because of this community in Abli that these heretics were called Albigensians.

            It was these Albigensians who affirmed the belief that the Roman Church was the Harlot of Babylon spoken of in the Book of Revelation which you stupidly believed after it trickled to Luther.

            Are these your “martyrs”?

            The only solution for you is to make the Albigenses as true Christians. This would be an impossibility since you would find ZERO historians who would support you.

            Good luck next time.

          • colin

            Baptist history says something different..

            “The representations which Roman Catholic writers, their bitter enemies, have given them, are highly exaggerated.” There is no proof conclusive that the Albigenses were so much as tainted with Manichaeism.

            History of Waldenses and Albigenses

            http://asweetsavor.info/history/b2ch9.php

          • Stephen Dalton

            This site is nonsense. This type of so-called Baptist history is sheer fiction. The Waldenses were not Baptist at any time in their history. Until the Reformation, they practiced a modified form of Catholicism. And when they did turn Protestant, they became Calvinists, and in the 19th century, they affiliated with the Methodist Church. And the Albigenses were Gnostic heretics who practiced occult rites and sexual perversions, as many true historians have documented. James Edward McGoldrick examines and thoroughly demolishes the Baptist secessionism thesis in his “Baptist Successionism”. He’s a Baptist who once brought into the idea, but was forced by clear historical evidence to repudiate it. I’d suggest that you get the book and read some real history, instead of that “Trail of Blood” balderdash.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            IF their fairy tale were true, Baptists would have a ministerial priesthood – OOPS.

          • colin

            Paul didn’t beat himself up or ‘pomel’ himself. That thinking leads to all sort of ungodly practice.. Paul was speaking about how an athlete disciplines his body.

            How the catholic church gets it wrong; while it acknowledges that Jesus, God’s Son in human form and was flogged for the sins of the world, it gets something very wrong about that truth, which, in effect, destroyed the truth completely.

            The catholic church was teaching that his flogging for the sins of the world was insufficient to completely forgive people their sins.

            In other words, the catholic church believed and taught that the
            forgiveness of sins was incomplete, and therefore salvation was incomplete.

            The church taught there was something left for mankind to do to be completely forgiven and completely saved.

            The catholic church still taught and still teaches that one of the things left for mankind to do was penance.

            Penance voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong…

            You see the catholic jesus doesn’t completely save them and that why the catholic church says your justified by faith and works – the works is that there is some left over flogging to be done…

          • Grandmere

            Soldiers and gladiators training. Do some research. Boxers train this way today.

          • “The present life is a wrestling school, a gymnasium, a battle, a smelting furnace, and a dyer’s house of virtue” – St John Chrysostom

            People like Colin and the others are, then, cowards and weaklings who would rather run away than suffer for Christ.

          • I can relate.

            I used to play soccer and we would run for 2 miles before we would actually practice. It was this way daily until the end of the season. The last year I played soccer, we won our 10th straight regional championship, and was awarded the national championship by a now defunct publication. Mind you, this was back in 1994.

            At the same time, I have also played varsity basketball. Our coach would punish us with suicide drills if one of us missed a layup during warm-up practice. If the next person missed the layup, we would have to do suicide drill again. We never won any championship, but during game, we wouldn’t be winded when playing.

            The point being – we are told that the mark of Christians is discipline, discipline, and more discipline lest we become disqualified from the crown. That have become lost today in western Churches because they do not want to work, but want to be like a beached whale bellowing, “FEED ME!”

            Our salvation is completely dependent on what Christ have done for us in the way that God removed the handwritten requirements of the Laws, which meant that animal sacrifices, drinking offerings, grain offerings, etc, etc meant to atone for sins, have been removed and nailed to the cross. At the same time, God expects for us to be holy because He is holy, and (this is a point many Christians misses) nothing unclean will ever enter heaven. That means that we are to exercise disciple in our daily walk with Christ. Some Christians went so far to deny their body foods, which Gnostics did, and other went so far to deny worldly pursuit, again as Gnostic did, by declaring the whole world as an illusion. They did not strike the balance.

            When the Jerusalem Council first convened, there were debates about what to do with the Gentile converts coming into the Faith. One camp said they needed to be circumcised. Another said they needed to do this. Finally, Peter and James both said, in nutshell, “Why should we burden them with the same burden our forefathers failed to uphold?” That led to the formation of the first instruction, namely, to abstain from eating meat that are offered to idols, strangled of blood, and abstain from immorality.

          • Grandmere

            If he tried to put on the whole armor, he would collapse like a ten year old girl

          • The Scots Protestants are more foul than the English could ever hope to be. Their pathetic condition as a country serves them right, as they blasphemed their way around for centuries, and are now little more than a beggar territory who, despite the big talk about independence, wouldn’t last very long as a country these days without the large socialist teat of Labour.

          • Julie

            I also know of some monastery where everyone wanted to have nothing and be as nothing, and they wanted their room so small before the Lord, they chose to live in caskets!

            I lived in the tropics…just the other night at Christmas dinner I was sharing how I learned to fall asleep…I just sat still in bed with my arms along my side and not moving at all…if I did, it would make me feels so hot I couldn’t sleep.

            So, they probably just lay there contemplating the Lord, the source of their joy.

            It is in the eye of the beholder…

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

          • Joe,

            How many martyrs did the proddies offer? Can you tell me?

          • Owen Schumacher

            Bonhoeffer?

          • Indeed. I guess I was asking martyred by Catholics.

          • colin

            The “China Martyrs of 1900” is a term used by some Protestant Christians to refer to American and European missionaries and converts who were killed during the Boxer Rebellion, when attacks targeting Christians and foreigners took place in northern China

            http://library.umac.mo/ebooks/b28360230.pdf

          • This was by pagans Taosists and Muslims, not Catholics.

          • colin

            Quote by Walid: How many martyrs did the proddies offer?

          • Julie

            What he means is…that to be a saint requires a certain level of sanctity and grace, heroic grace.

            How many Protestant saints are there in Ireland who died with the crown of martyrdom, whose followers asked their prayers and then there came about several immediate miracles that defied science?

          • colin

            There are 801 million Protestant saints in the world today.

          • Julie

            That is your canonization. I don’t know if I will be there and you can play devils advocate.

          • Did you count Joyce Myers in this number and all the crazy tele-evangelists on TV, Clifto Dollar man too and all the Trinity-deniars (80% of Messianic) and the Oness Pentacostals etc

          • colin

            I am not saying that everything is perfect within protestantism.

            The point I am making is that bible says that all believers are Saints.

          • mikifenn

            Yes it does.

          • I don’t see many “saints” these days in either Protestant or Catholic. It is a narrow gate.

          • colin

            Are there people that were protestant that I would aspire to be like of course there is; would I pray to them and ask there help.. nope

            I remember a time when I was praying for someone in my area and I mean someone as all I said was God I pray for someone in my area. Around day 7 a drunk women comes to the door asking if my wife could do something with her hair. We let her in and I sat with her in the living room, my wife was in the kitchen cutting someone hair.

            Then this woman starts asking me to pray for her; telling me she had seen the face of Jesus outside the bedroom window. So I call through my wife and the other lady and explain she wants prayer and agree to pray for her.

            As I put my hands on here I saw the power of God hit this woman. She started shouting at me – It’s you, it’s you I was shouting back – it’s not me, it’s not me – Its Jesus.

            Anyway we were both over the moon..

            My point is anyone used by God is aware that any sort of gift they have is not there’s it come from heaven and the Glory should always been given to God..

            This whole idea of special saints only distracts the Glory away from Christ and will lead to idolatry.

          • Julie

            You are mixing things up. We are asking they pray for us and with us.

            You are devoid of the great benefit of being in Christ’s Church that is intended for all sinners.

          • colin

            Currently there are 801 million Protestant saints in the world today.

          • Someone used it today. Are you always looking for an insult in every corner?

          • colin

            You asked a question – I was reminding you what you asked.

          • Grandmere

            Yes, he does. It is part of his hair shirt.

          • colin

            I have this attitude because you have an attitude.. You stop I stop

          • Strange how you reply partially and you do not admit your error.

          • colin

            Take the log out of your own eye…

          • The verse starts that one should look at the log in his own eye before he points the spec his brother’s. Yet you stated “take the log out of your own eye”.

            You seem to have fulfilled what Christ warned not to do.

            STOP falling into your own traps and mature up.

          • colin

            You asked – How many martyrs did the proddies offer?

            I pointed you to Protestants Martyrs during the boxer rebellion. There was over 500 pages you pick one page to find fault and I am the one with attitude problem.

          • O stop it. I asked for “martyrs” killed by “Catholics”. you’r beginning to annoy me.

          • The Boxers also killed off the Chinese Orthodox Church in that time, almost to a man. The Protestants suffered little by comparison. This is a pathetic stretch by Colin, but it comes as no surprise.

          • Grandmere

            Ten Boom family

          • May God ever comfort them.

          • Joe M

            Hi Walid, there were many, so many that it is not quantifiable. Kings, Queens, who were Roman Catholic killed up to a million. Bloody Mary, daughter of Henry the 8th, she killed thousands . I cannot give you all their names, but here is an example;

            IN LOVING MEMORY
            OF THE UNDERNAMED SEVENTEEN PROTESTANT MARTYRS,
            WHO, FOR THEIR FAITHFUL TESTIMONY TO
            GOD’S TRUTH,
            WERE, DURING THE REIGN OF QUEEN MARY,
            BURNED TO DEATH
            IN FRONT OF THE THEN STAR INN – NOW THE TOWN HALL – LEWES,
            THIS OBELISK,
            PROVIDED BY PUBLIC SUBSCRIPTIONS,
            WAS ERECTED A.D. 1901

            Foxe’s Book of Martyrs
            Foxe’s Book of Martyrs
            Actes and Monuments.jpg
            A page of the first English-language edition, printed by John Day in 1563
            Author John Foxe
            Original title Actes and Monuments of these Latter and Perillous Days, Touching Matters of the Church
            Country England
            Language English
            Subject Martyrology; history of Protestantism
            Publisher John Day
            Publication date
            20 March 1563
            Media type Print (folio)
            Pages 1800
            OCLC 751705715
            The Actes and Monuments, popularly known as Foxe’s Book of Martyrs, is a work of Protestant history and martyrology by John Foxe, first published in English in 1563 by John Day. It includes a polemical account of the sufferings of Protestants under the Catholic Church.

            My Church;

            Patrick Hamilton
            (1504?-1528)

            First Protestant martyr

            Scotland’s first Protestant martyr was a member of the mighty Hamilton family. While some Hamilton men grew rich from their powerful positions in the church, Patrick did something different: he began to take his faith seriously.

            While studying at Scotland’s St. Andrews University, he became attracted to the views of Martin Luther. He wrote a book that was condemned as heretical and for a time he took refuge in Germany. He quickly returned to Scotland and began preaching the Protestant faith.

            In 1528 the powerful Archbishop of St. Andrews summoned Hamilton, saying he wished to have a debate. However, it was a ruse, and before Hamilton’s influential friends could muster any support, a church court hurriedly found him guilty of heresy. (While heresy trials ordinarily took weeks, Hamilton’s was rushed through in a mere twelve hours.)

            In contrast to the trial, the punishment was long. It took six hours for Hamilton to die by burning at the stake. A witness of the execution noted that the martyr “never gave one sign of impatience or anger, nor ever called to heaven for vengeance upon his persecutors.”

            Knox, who did not know Hamilton, claimed that the execution led many throughout Scotland to begin questioning the beliefs and practices of Catholicism. Or as one witness put it, “The smoke of Mr. Patrick Hamilton has infected as many as it did blow upon.”

            George Wishart(c.1513–1546)

            His death ignited reform

            When Knox met Wishart in 1545, he was deeply impressed by the tall, handsome, well-mannered young preacher who had the curious habit of washing himself in a bathtub every night.

            Wishart, who had been born into a refined family with aristocratic connections, was the spokesman for Scotland’s growing and rugged Protestant faction. Gentle and peace-loving, he worked hard to restrain the sometimes violent lairds (nobles) who supported him.

            The formidable Cardinal David Beaton, Archbishop of St. Andrews, executed five Protestants in 1544 and tried twice to have Wishart murdered. The Protestant lairds feared for Wishart’s safety and encouraged him to move from place to place to avoid capture. Knox, armed with a two-edged sword, was part of the bodyguard that traveled with Wishart.

            Only in Scotland could a band of fifty armed Protestants (“heretics”) have wandered about, entering churches and preaching without government interference. Instead of the usual Latin Mass, worshipers heard fiery, hour-long sermons in their own tongue. Wishart denounced ceremonies and prayers to the saints, and advocated a married clergy.

            Another shocking feature of Wishart’s services was congregational singing. His followers helped popularize The Good and Godly Ballads, a collection of songs that promoted the Protestant cause.

            Wishart frequently predicted that he would be captured and burned. In 1546, believing his arrest imminent, he bade his followers farewell, saying, “One is sufficient for a sacrifice.” Knox reluctantly left him, and Wishart peacefully surrendered to authorities. He was condemned as a heretic, strangled, and burned by order of Cardinal Beaton.

            I don’t go on about it, l believe in living in the present, and looking to the future. Vengeance is the Lord’s!

          • “Roman Catholics killed up to a million”?

            Who?

            The Albigensis, Bogomils, Paulicians were gnostics who followed the teachings of Mani, in which it was taught that Christ did not come in the flesh, but was a spirit or phantom.

            I can respond to the list you sent at another time, but when you state “million” Christians, you need to back this up. Foxe adds the

            I also include my response to Colin here about Foxe Colin,

            The Book of Martyrs says:

            “This was followed by a severe persecution against the Albigenses; and express orders that the laity should not be permitted to read the sacred Scriptures. In the year 1620 also, the persecution against the Albigenses was very severe. In 1648 a heavy persecution raged throughout Lithuania and Poland. The cruelty of the Cossacks was so excessive that the Tartars themselves were ashamed of their barbarities. Among others who suffered was the Rev. Adrian Chalinski, who was roasted alive by a slow fire, and whose sufferings and mode of death may depict the horrors which the professors of Christianity have endured from the enemies of the Redeemer.”

            This is simply one error out of thousands. The book is worthless and has been exposed by many historians.

            Albigenses followed a cultist named Mani (a homosexual who ate human seaman, a real sicko). The Albigenses believed that the Incarnation of Christ never occurred; the sufferings of Christ and the Eucharist were an illusion, and even life itself was considered by Mani to be an abomination from which all of humanity should seek to be free.

            This antihuman doctrine spread to Armenia where its subscribers called themselves Paulicians, and then this sect made its way to the Balkans where it influenced a man in Bulgaria named Bogomil, who would start his own cult in his country. Though Bogomilism went underground, it continued to grow like bacteria growing stronger in static murky water in the summer heat. It spread to Italy and by the twelfth century it made its way to France where its followers would call themselves Cathars, from the Greek word “pure.”

            In a council conducted in Toulouse in 1119, presided by pope Calixtus II, the Cathars were anathematized as heretics. By 1165 the Cathars had become so numerous that they began to preach in the open, with the Catholic bishops too fearful to protest. They soon commenced to form their own church separate from Roman Catholicism, establishing as their own bishop one Barthelemy in their city of Albi, where they built the Cathar community–the strongest in southern France. It was because of this community in Abli that these heretics were called Albigensians.

            It was these Albigensians who affirmed the belief that the Roman Church was the Harlot of Babylon spoken of in the Book of Revelation which you stupidly believed after it trickled to Luther.

            Are these your “martyrs”?

            The only solution for you is to make the Albigenses as true Christians. This would be an impossibility since you would find ZERO historians who would support you.

            Good luck next time.

          • mikifenn

            Walid, read some English History books written about the period of Bloody Mary, the daughter of Henry the 8th.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Read some English History books written about the period of Elizabeth who slaughtered Catholics, cut their gut out, held them up the their faces, then had their body pieces put at each corner of the City.

          • I have heard about Bloody Mary so many times. No one denies it was rather an atrocity. But that was dozens. Not millions.

          • Julie

            She was actually the rightful heir to the throne.

            And look what division has done to Christianity.

          • Julie

            Do you know it is the English nationalists after the split who are the most notorious for fabricating all sorts of things the Catholics did, killing millions, the countless many of the Spanish Inquisition, etc?…My awakening came these past few years that the English then were frontrunners to the KGB.

            And I know as well there were bad popes and bad Catholic temporal rulers as well.

          • People are still spreading lies about the Inquisition when the English themselves (those with a brain, anyway) don’t believe it anymore?:

          • Julie

            It is in USA…but the posters here on this article appear to come from Great Britain, the source of most propaganda. Wish there were more leadership within Protestantism…will watch this soon.

            Thanks so much!

          • Julie, I think you’ll enjoy this a lot.

          • Julie

            It shows they are not properly being led to the Lord and waste alot of time.

          • Julie

            I could only watch two minutes and it was very funny…and will come back after dinner and a cocktail. We are getting close to New Year’s…and unfortunately I got back too late from the Le Creuset store to attend Vespers…so dark it is like 10 pm outside ….

            Will get back to it.

          • All at your leisure.

          • Julie

            Fi Fo Fo Fum…sounds like the talk of the Englishman!

          • I have lots of English friends (most irreligious and not interested in squabbles). The ‘religious’ ones tend to fall into the usual two camps – good (NT Wright types, or those who wish to learn) or like the freaks who infest this place now and again.

          • Julie

            I studied with some Italian priests. They were very funny. And they called me ‘Miss America’….and they would not just say ‘yes’….but ‘yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss’/

            In response to your observation, ‘yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss’

          • Amen to that. Italian priests are frankly good, charming people.

          • Julie

            Mine were from the South East…’We don’t have those problems they have up north’..I won’t elaborate here but you can possibly understand. Very wholesome and i am so thankful the one I worked with the closest, of whom I have not seen since 1975, have been friends all these years.

          • It’s true. I lived in Naples for some time, and the tenor of the church is way different from those in Milan or even Rome.

          • Julie

            I stayed at Marrechiaro for two weeks…Province of the Sacred Heart…Don Claver…we went into Naples every day….nurse I worked with, came from Pozzuoli.

          • Oh, I have a soft spot for both places, though Naples is particularly bittersweet for me. Found and lost what I thought was a wonderful woman, only to be blessed with another one, far better.

          • Julie

            I am reading alot of Italians now are getting away from their diet and wanting to eat meat and butter. The English were referred to as the ‘beef eaters’..thinking of some liquor bottle…

          • Italians have become quite round over the last few years, despite starting the ‘slow food’ movement a decade ago. They have succumbed to fast food, and it’s showing badly.

          • Julie

            somebody somewhere from inside Italy said the Italians have changed and that is very very bad. I grew up n an Italian ghetto, we went to St. Rita’s with them…the Italian priest would begin the homily with ‘tutti’ and I would think in my brain, ‘tutti fruitti’…almost every S unday. Loved that priest…some moved across town to a more affluent area…’Why did they leave us….not good enough?!….it was like that. And he would talk about the Donatos two doors down about anytjhing going on in their house…they were always embarrassed but that is how it went down…we were all OK and he asked my dad, an Irish Catholic, to enter the diaconate program to help him but my dad was more a contemplative type.

          • Julie

            Good enough, can understand you have had enough suffering in your life.

            We are talking here of unitive union with Christ to the point, His suffering is manifested in chosen souls for a reason, a need.

      • Julie

        You are right…2 or 3 He is there….but we are talking here abou the physical presence of God here in the churches….orthodox and catholic.

        • Joe M

          Ok Julie, the physical presence not the spiritual. To a person with my condition, the spiritual is as real as the physical. But just a point, this matter of the wine turning into blood and the bread turning into flesh, is that meant to be the physical presence of Jesus? Because if it is, then l have an answer to that!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Why are Jesus’ words dismissed? He said ‘ this IS my body, this IS my blood” – he didn’t say ‘this represents my body, this represents my blood.” No person outside the Catholic or the Orthodox Churches have the Ministers that can confect the change from bread to flesh and wine to blood.

          • Joe M

            Jesus didn’t turn himself into a butterfly or a bird or bread and wine. As for you saying that the bread turns into flesh and the wine to blood, l see the little wavers, thin little round things that Roman Catholics devour, we use real bread. You say that you have witnessed these wavers turn into flesh and you call that the physical presence of Jesus, not the spiritual presence. Hmmmm, Jesus does not turn into a pound of steak. If Jesus decides to be a physical presence you will see him in the human form of a man, that being fully formed not a pound of flesh and blood like something that came from the butchers shop. Stop, this is boring and I don’t want to argue with you. I don’t have any plans to change your perception on this matter, and I can tell you that you can’t change mine!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Don’t change your perception then – good luck. Quote: “…and the Bread that I WILL give is MY FLESH…Amen, Amen, unless you EAT THE FLESH of the Son of Man and Drink His blood you have NO LIFE IN YOU. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has ETERNAL LIFE AND I WILL RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY. For MY FLESH is REAL FOOD and MY BLOOD is REAL DRINK” John 6:52-55. You need to ask yourself HOW people can get sick and die from eating bread and drinking wine as Paul tells us happened ( 1 Cor 11:27-32), and HOW they can be guilty of the Lord’s body and blood if all they have done is to eat bread and drink wine.

            FYI – the Eucharistic Miracles that have been scientifically investigated reveal that the FLESH is HEART TISSUE – and the blood miracles are the SAME blood type as the blood on the Shroud of Turin.
            How sad that protestants reject the gift of Almighty God.

            The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

            The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

            The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

            In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

            The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.

            The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

            In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

            In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

            The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

          • Joe M

            I consider that l have spiritually ate Jesus who is the tree of life and the water that quenches thirst. Certainly, l know that He is in me, He came into me because l believed in his name and promises with all my heart, yet l have not attributed my possession with the eating of bread and the drinking of wine, because my possession happened in my childhood and not in a church.

            I do believe that the act of taking communion is spiritual and physical which it obviously is, but if a priest had given me a bloody mess to eat, l would call the police and have them look into the possibility that a murder had been committed and the victim was served up to be cannabalised as a mockery of Christians and Christianity!

            You may think me distrusting of priests and you would be right, l only trust God as that’s what this life has taught me, trust no man but God!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You better read Luke 10:16 – then Hebrews 13:17 – you aren’t obeying at all.

          • Tell me, from 70 AD to 1500 AD can you find me any Christian who agrees with what you said?

          • Julie

            It is obvious that what you describe simply is not the reality of the daily and perpetual Sacrifice of the Mass.

          • Julie

            The Tree of Life is the Church instituted by Christ, the Tree that bears the Good Fruit of the Word Made Flesh, the Eucharist.

          • Grandmere

            Jesus is the bread who came down from heaven. The bread of life. Born in a town named “House of bread” and laid in a feeding trough.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You would think these people are Jews with the veil still in place.

          • Was the Shekina Glory God?

            If so, was He present in the Temple?

            In the Ark?

            Was God in the Ark?

            Yes/No?

            Can God reside in the Ark?

            If so, can He reside in the communion bread?

            Can God reside in you?

            If so, can He reside in the bread?

            Remember, I asked “CAN” I did not ask if He did.

            CAN HE?

            Lets set this straight first.

          • Joe M

            Yes, of course, God can do anything he wants, but if he goes in the bread or wine, he will not turn it into a scene of blood and gore, because that’s morbid l believe, but you can believe it if you wish.

          • Julie

            But that is not the reality of the Mass.

            You need to get a book on the Mass and get off the same old stuff that threads its way here in America…

            Dr Scot Hahn, ‘The Lamb’s Supper’, former anti Catholic Protestant minister who did not attend a tin can sign up to be bible minister, but someone highly educated from a divinity school.

          • Julie

            You without intent are desecrating the Lord into something evil.

          • Grandmere

            He uses the species of bread and wine. Just like the last supper. It is a sacred mystery. Once you accept that the bread and wine are his BODY and BLOOD your world will change. You will be there, in his presence, receiving him as they did.

          • Joe M

            Grandmere, thanks for your post and l know that you mean no offence but you are talking as if you don’t know that l am with Jesus and he is with me. I received Jesus, and l live in him, and as l have not gone out and rolled in the mud like a pig, then my Lord is still with me, he has not left me.

            When l take communion, l ask Jesus to forgive me if he thinks that l have sinned, in case l have sinned in error or he has disapproved of my actions , but l know Jesus is already with me and l am in his presence, and l say to my Lord that he is the bread of life and the fountain of holy water. I have no sense of a gulf between Jesus and myself.

            I would say that l don’t know what it is like to not be with Jesus but for one incident. One night about two years ago, l stupidly said to Jesus that l don’t know what it would feel like to not have him, and that l don’t understand people who say that they don’t know if he is with them and they ponder over their faith. I said that l wonder what that feels like. I thought lightly of saying these words and moved through the day giving no more thought on it.

            I went to bed and prayed before sleep, even falling asleep as l prayed because l was tired. At some point a few hours later, l became aware suddenly that l seemed to be suspended in darkness, and l stretched out my arms but there was no wall to touch, nothing beneath my feet, nothing to see. I was so shocked and afraid. I didn’t know where l was, but l realised that something awful had happened and l was cut off from everything, my family, my house, God. I thought and no one knows l am here and l became terrified. I screamed as loud as possible and l could hear my screams yet, l was completely alone. I didn’t know what to do, but thought ” Something bad has happened, and no one knows l am here so there is no way l can get out of here, and perhaps l will never get out of here.” I tried to figure out what had happened but l was so terrified that all l could do was scream. My screams were horrific! I realised with such clarity of thought that l existed outside of everything that l knew and l was cut off from and l screamed for ages, in terror at my dilemma.

            Suddenly, l awoke in my bed, and my screams woke my family because l couldn’t stop screaming. My spouse told me that l had a bad dream. I did not seem like a bad dream, l was very aware of myself and my circumstances. I was scared and lay in bed afraid, l cried out to Jesus in order to tell him about my bad experience but l never got the opportunity to tell him because as soon as l said ” Jesus help me, l have had a terrible experience” Jesus replied with few words, he simply said ” You wanted to know how it feels not to have me”. I was shocked and replied ” You did that to me”. He replied ” Now you know. It was but a few minutes imagine what it would be like for eternity.”

            I was chastised. We must fear the Lord, and be careful what we say, brother.

          • Grandmere

            To ask Jesus to forgive you if he thinks you have sinned is not a proper confession. You must acknowledge your sins ( and we all sin every day in ways large and small), not say “I don’t think I have sinned but just in case you do, please forgive me”. At least pray the general confession.

          • Joe M

            Of course, Grandmere, if we know we have sinned then we make confession and apology to God for it, but we sometimes think that we are free from sins, but our standards are base, we think ourselves noble and righteous, but we probable are not in the eyes of God, therefore best to beg God for his forgiveness just in case you have in fact sinned perhaps through arrogance, or eating too much or anything.

            Two young American Mormon girls came to my door the other evening. I said to them, l acknowledge that you are Christians and are made in the image of God, and have the Holy Spirit in you. They smiled at that, but l went on to say that their prophet Joseph Smith should only have preached Jesus, and he didn’t need to write another book and he shot himself in the foot when he said that Muhammad should be acknowledged and respected. The girls said ” we respect all religions”. I responded ” you should not respect Satan” and you should be humble, yet you think that you shall be like God and even have your own heaven. What humility is this? They said ” we see that there is no point trying to win you over, we will go to other doors.” I replied ” yes, you may have some success with the ignorant but the atheists will shut their doors in your face”.

            Then l came into my lounge, and thought, l didn’t invite them in out of the cold or offer them a drink, and l rebuked them. God, l am probably horrible, forgive me Lord if you think that l have sinned in my dealings with them. I don’t know if l have sinned, l may have done so, yet Jesus didn’t say l had, so perhaps l didn’t, but l rest my case.

          • Grandmere

            Jesus plays dimensional chess. Checkmate!

          • susan

            Did the Holy Spirit descend as a dove?

          • Julie

            I would say you are now blaspheming the sacred….because you could have used different language. You are like those that abandoned Christ.

            Christ ministers to us from the heavenly altar, wounded but triumphant, ministering us His Eternal Life of His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity…this the great truth of the Church…He died on the Cross and rose from the dead.

          • Just to give you an example on this lie you believed about million/millions Catholics killed:

            According to Protestant Historian John Dowling (he is not a historian by the way), the Roman Catholic Church has put to death more than fifty million “heretics” between A.D. 606 (the birth of the papacy) and the mid-1800s (12)

            This is the comical illustration of Dowling writing which was sold down the pipeline which was sold to you in many forms and flavors.

            Depending on which author one reads, the numbers even extends to 68 million, 100 million, 120 million, and 150 million Bible believing Christians murdered by the Catholic Church, a history that no one in history verified; neither was the Papacy born in 606 A.D. as claimed by John MacArthur, the “reputable” theologian.

            But drilling down to find where this came from, I obtained John MacArthur’s quote in which he quoted John Dowling’s The History of Romanism, Book 8, Ch. 1, pp. 542, 543:

            “From the birth of Popery in 600, to the present time, it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than FIFTY MILLION of the human family have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of the existence of Popery.”

            And here is the crux of all this slander: in MacArthur’s quote, “According to Protestant Historian John Dowling,” as it turns out, John Dowling was a “pastor Dowling”, not “historian,” who held his pastorates in New York, Philadelphia.

            It even gets worse, besides that Dowling has no credentials in history; Dowling, while he stated “fifty million,” he simply created such numbers out of thin air, his note explaining the number he admits:

            “No computation can reach the numbers who have been put to death, in different ways, on account of their maintaining the profession of the Gospel, and opposing the corruptions of the Church of Rome, A million Waldenses and Albigenses perished during a crusade proclaimed by Pope Innocent III in 1208; beginning from the establishment of the Jesuits in 1540 to 1580, nine hundred thousand were destroyed; one hundred and fifty thousand perished by the Inquisition in 30 years; within the space of thirty-eight years after the edict of Charles V against Protestants, fifty thousand persons were hanged, beheaded, or burned alive for heresy; eighteen thousand more perished during the administration of the Duke of Alva in five and a half years … but the total amount will never be known, till the earth shall disclose her blood”

            Dowling even admits that “no computation” was done, that the only way to know is that “till the earth shall disclose her blood”. There was no tally, yet an enormous number was provided despite that when we examine the statement, there were no “million Waldenses and Albigenses perished”.

            After noticing the outlandish quotes, I attempted to investigate even further as to what historian with his sane mind would declare that the Papacy murdered 100 million people. I finally found the source from a book, Who Are These Three Angels, by Jeff Wehr, P.p. 31-32:

            For professing faith contrary to the teachings of the Church of Rome, history records the martyrdom of more than one hundred million people. A million Waldenses and Albigenses perished during a crusade proclaimed by Pope Innocent III in 1208;

            “beginning from the establishment of the Jesuits in 1540 to 1580, nine hundred thousand were destroyed; one hundred and fifty thousand perished by the Inquisition in 30 years; within the space of thirty-eight years after the edict of Charles V against Protestants, fifty thousand persons were hanged, beheaded, or burned alive for heresy; eighteen thousand more perished during the administration of the Duke of Alva in five and a half years.”—

            Brief Bible Readings for Busy People , No. 8.

            The source used by Wehr, as it turned out, was from an insignificant booklet titled A Brief Bible Studies for Busy People (page 16), which was by Frances L. Carroll.

            Carroll wasn’t even a historian but a housewife.

            You heard it right.

            It even gets worse, she was a Jehovah’s Witness serving with her husband as full-time volunteer traveling ministers of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

            Carroll, the housewife, simply plagiarized Dowling’s quote and simply inserted her own “one hundred million”.

            But this is only taking a couple of quotes randomly that I was able to find a monumental fraud and outright slander. The Protestant World Christian Encyclopedia says that Roman Catholics killed 4.9 million Christians. Of course, such source lumps the Manichaeans, Arians, Cathars, Priscillianists, Paulicians, Bogomiles, Waldensians, Albigensians, Lollards and Hussites as ‘Bible believing Christian’. Eliminate these heretics and the numbers go down drastically. The “millions” figure is not supported by any serious historian. It is difficult to manipulate history without notice and is why such authors resort to theologians proclaiming them as historians. That is these are self-ordained historians.

            I had even tracked countless publications to only find out the main sources for such false information were not credible:

            Peter De Rosa (aka Neil Boyd) was not a historian (15) but an X-priest, novel writer and Professor of Metaphysics.

            John Wesley was not a historian but a theologian.

            Alexander Hislop was not a historian but a Pastor of East Free Church of Arbroath in Scotland.

            Schmucker was not a historian but a Professor of Theology.

            William Craig Brownlee was not a historian but a reverend and an American clergyman and professor of languages.

            Joseph Martin McCabe was not a historian but an x-Catholic priest.

            Charles Buck was not a historian but a reverend and author of Theological Dictionary.

            Vergerius was not a historian but a religious ‘reformer’.

            Thomas Armitage was not a historian but a Protestant theologian.

            George Bourne was not a historian but a pastor.

            Cushing B. Hassell was not a historian but a writer.

            Dr. M. Geddes was not a historian but a Chaplain.

            John B. Wilder was not a historian but a writer.

            Taylor Bunch was not a historian but a Prophecy author.

            Nathaniel Crouch (pseud. Robert Burton) was not a historian but a writer. (16)

            Henry Southwell was not a historian but a reverend.

            John Wylie was a not a historian but minister of the Free Church of Scotland.

            J. M. Carroll was not a historian but a Southern Baptist minister.

            Avro Manhattan was not a historian but a British writer.

            Charles Chiniquy was not a historian, but a Canadian x-Catholic priest who was twice suspended from his priestly ministry (for moral turpitude).

            R. W. Thompson, was not a historian but a politician.

            John William Bowden was not a historian but theologian.

            Walter j. Veith is not a historian or a “world acclaimed international lecturer” but a zoologist (17)

            Frances L. Carroll, was not a historian but simply a housewife.

            I could go on and on and on.

            Such is the type of references used by evangelical authors when they need to exaggerate historic accounts. With no accountability by a higher order, evangelical authors can do as they wish under the first amendment but as long as man is man, true science and ripe scholarship, and sound reasoning, can be only the heritage of the few. (18)

            Similarily, Tim LaHaye, in a description reminiscent to the blood libel against Jews, writes that under the Spanish Inquisition:

            “no fewer than 900,000 Protestants were put to death, in the Pope’s war for the extermination of the Waldenses. Think of monks and priests directing, with heartless cruelty and inhuman brutality, the work of torturing and burning alive innocent men and women; and doing it in the Name of Christ, by the direct order of the “Vicar of Christ.” (LaHaye, Revelation Unveiled)

            How could 900,000 Protestants be killed in the Pope’s war against the Waldenses when the Waldenses were hundreds of years before the Protestant Reformation?

            But we are not willing to remove our books anytime soon and neither will we repent, instead, we choose to slander.

            So who truly “drank the blood of the saints”?

            Perhaps we can go to what is missing in the equation #1—THE ABSENCE OF CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM WARS; all these Islamic wars against the Catholic Church and Eastern Byzantium with the millions that no historian can even estimate; it was the heretic Unitarian Muslim who denied Father and Son were the ones who killed the Christians.

            Isn’t it then time that we at least unite on this truth?

            http://shoebat.com/2014/03/12/drinking-blood-saints/

          • mikifenn

            Walid, I have a proven ancestor who was a Hugenot and he fled France along with many other because of the dangers from Catholic persecution. That was then. This is now. Live today and not in the past. It’s divisive; It is pointless to fight these Catholic/Protestant wars all over again. It proves nothing to argue over which church is the best. Protestant and Catholics both have had corrupt leaders in the past and will do so in the future. Catholics have had good Popes and bad Popes.
            Protestants have had bad and good leaders. We are not responsible for the bad things that happened hundreds of years ago. There are no perfect churches because they are run by humans. When Christ returns and sets up his 1000 year reign
            the church will be just as Christ wants it to be.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Newsflash = Jesus already set up HIs Church and left them in charge – Jesus returns to judge.

          • mikifenn

            The people Christ left in charge of his church are not always doing a good job of running things. This is true both for Catholics and non-Catholics.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Too bad – sad that you despise the hierarchy that Christ left.

          • mikifenn

            Too bad that you have the spirit of self righteousness.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Telling the truth is the spirit of self-righteousness?

          • Julie

            That is true. But you also have to look at heresy and how it destroys faith, family and culture over time.

            Yes…some day we will return to one shepherd and one flock.

          • Julie

            The Hugeunots…that was indeed a massacre and it was led by a crazy Capuchin when this branch was first getting started…that sought to serve the poor….just like the crazy Cistercian monk and the rogue bishop who incited German Catholics at the beginning of the Crusades to slaughter 2000 jews.

            Fanatics. And the pope did not sanction it and was also misinformed. Read about it.

            You have to go further.

            there is a big difference when a pope orders something and when some one goes out on his own with no authority.

          • mikifenn

            The Pope or some other higher up ordered the Inquisition in Spain.

          • Julie

            Torquemada…who was later removed. Numbers are around 3,000 and the Church worked to exonerate. People not placed in prisons but in apartments.
            And likewise you are seeing a culture that endured 700 years of Muslim plunder and dhimmitude. The Muslims were allowed to continue to live there but a resistance happened in a city and so they were then told to leave.
            Muslims pretended, along with some Jews, to be converts. The Church must protect the Lord against sacrilege. This led to inquisition.

            The BBC exonerated the English by providing what really happened so many years ago.

            I wait for Protestants to repent of the wrong done to our church. Just because it is big in numbers, its believers have feelings and convictions and humanity just like you do.

          • mikifenn

            Julie, I have personally done nothing to the Catholic Church to repent for. I am not responsible for any wrongs done to the Catholic Church just as you are not responsible for the deaths during the Spanish Inquisition.
            The Inquisition began in 1390 under the rule of Henry III of Castile. The Jews had grown in number and prospered and Henry III gave them the choice of Catholic Baptism or face a horrible, violent death.
            Torguemada came later–1492. He gave Jews the choice of Catholic Baptism or explusion. He later began persecuting Muslims. After the Protestant Reformation there were some Protestants in Spain who met a violent end.
            Julie, surely you aren’t saying that torture and violence is acceptable to prevent heresy?
            This historical information is available online. Please research this for yourself.

          • Julie

            No I am not. But temporal rulers are not clerics. And the pope also called on temporal rulers in the West to save Constantinople.

            You are likewise ignoring the effect of living within Spain and dhimmitude…and 700 years of plunder. Our country isn’t even anywhere near that old.

            So you have to take into context the situation and to think Islam is not guilty of any wrong doing is wrong. If you search the web, the Muslims still think Spain as belonging to them and they still mourn for it.

            Live in those days and then see why people do what they do. Learned this in our history class by atheist instructor when speaking of Spain and the atrocities they went through. Likewise the Jews were in government were working to break up Spain.

            You have to look at the times when such a decree was made.

            Are you aware of an Orthodox’s prophecy concerning Turkey?….and i have read similiar…that those violent Muslims will some day be forced to convert. It is better than being tortured or killed.

            Islam cannot be settled by diplomacy and prayer but unfortunately by military means.

          • mikifenn

            I am well versed on radical Islam. Their goal is world-wide Islam. Muslims will convert during the 1000 year reign of Christ when he returns as warrior King, They will be forced as will all deniers of Christ the King to bow and proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord. Bible prophecy indicates there will be several wars in the mid-east before the return of Christ.
            Bible prophecy also states that there will be great persecution of Christians in the Last Days before the return of Christ.

          • Julie

            Tend to agree. An American priest in Rome has studied both Catholic and Protestant apocrypha and is coming to rest on the Early Church Fathers….that we will have this great persecution, and those that never lied or lay with women will be resurrected and rule over the Church during the coming 1000 year reign of – Christ in our hearts.

            Then at the end of the 1000 year reign..some also call it the reign of the Glory of the Holy Trinity, Satan will be unleashed one more time…and then the coming of the great Anti Christ who will usher in the greatest persecution….where Christians, according to ECF visions, will run to be martyred.

            St. Paul has such admiration of these, who have not lived in the time of Christ or shortly after he did, but have such remarkable faith.

            Yes, those Muslims who refuse will either fight to the end or be forced to convert. Again, if you go to NewAgeIslam, you will witness so many Muslims now looking at their beliefs and seeking now their own Reformation….and ironically it is P Francis on one article who is giving Islam guidelines to become atleast more humane and reasonable.

            These could also endure great martyrdom, those Muslims who stand up to the Ishmaelites.

          • mikifenn

            Julie, I have never heard of the Protestant apocrypha. What on earth is it?
            Jesus told us Christians would be persecuted and so did John when he wrote the Book of Revelation, inspired by the Holy Spirit or a visitation from Christ. John was a disciple of Christ and the only Disciple who was not killed for his belief in Christ.
            I have a different understanding of Bible prophecy. The 144,00 Jewish male virgins will be missionaries to the Jews during the Great Tribulation, before the 1000 year reign of Christ. This is what the Bible says.
            The Bible says that Christ will rule during his 1000 year reign. He will rule the nations with a rod of iron according to the Bible. Some say some believers will return with Christ and hold positions, but Christ will be the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. One person said he “thought” that King David would be the mayor of Jerusalem. This is not Biblical but I enjoy thinking about the possibility of that happening.
            The Bible says the time of terrible persecution of Christians will be during the Great Tribulation. Those who were killed during the Great Tribulation willl receive great honor in Heaven.
            The terrible persecution the Bible says will take place before the 1000 year reign of Christ. I think you said after. Satan will be loosed for a little while after the 1000 year reign and the last battle with be fought between Christ and his angels and the Devil and his followers who rebelled after the 1000 year reign.. Wonder who will win?
            Then, according to the Bible the earth will be purified and Heaven will actually descend to earth in Jerusalem.
            I would have to look it up, but I’m relatively sure that Christ will kill his enemies with his breath at the end of the tribulation. There are several places in the Old Testament that describes what Christ will do to his enemies. We are not the ones who will kill the Muslims.
            Aren’t Muslims Ishmaelites? Ishmael was the son of Abraham through Sarah’s servant girl. Israel was the son of Abraham and Sarah. The Bible tells us that Ismael and his mother were sent away by Abraham because Israel was the son of promise. God told Ishmael’s mother that her son also would be a great nation, but Ishmael’s descendents would be like a wild donkey. Moslems and Ismaelites are the same.
            The story of Abraham, Sara, Ishmael and Issaac are all detailed in the Book of Genesis. It is fascinating to read,
            Bible prophecy has been Europeanized, but it is about Israel and the way God will deal with Israel in the very Last Days–although the entire world will be affected.

          • Julie

            You have shared some ideas of Protestant apocrypha.
            I read recently of a monsignor who thinks that parts have already been completed, speaking to a specific time, when Christ spoke of Jerusalem, the suffering….and it is estimated there were 144,000 Christians protected at the Cenacle at Mt Zion before they dispersed in the Great Diaspora…but he says that is his personal opinion.

            We do not believe in rapture. That came out of a minister in Great Britain about 150 years ago, and how it started was he being taken by spiritual ideas coming from a mentally ill girl. He later recanted and no longer believed this, but there is an evangelical segment that in spite of some of their pastors now coming forth they no longer believe this, some in the congregations still do. I don’t know if they went as far as I shared here with you regarding Minister Darby.

            There is the Protestant concept of Christ ruling on earth for a thousand years, but then this detracts from faith and hope, as then He would be seen, so to put simply, if there is a 1,000 year reign, it will be Christ returning to the hearts of man kind, a period of peace, and then Satan unleashed the last time, this the position of the Early Church Fathers.

            Catholic priests have told us only a remnant of the Jews will turn to Christ, but there are and have been many Jews who have accepted Christ, going back to those with Him at the Cenacle when Pentacost occurred. The first Christians in Rome were Jewish who had fled the Diaspora and met in home churches.

            I am an associate of the Hebrew Catholic Assoc. They are online and you might like to read about them and their insights. They believe in the end all Jews will turn to Christ.

            Israel is essentially governed in power by the Zionists who are atheists. My pastor told us when the devout Jews begin work on the Temple Mount, God help us…considering what the Muslim world will do.

            Yes, I agree with you about Ishmael…and am seeing Islam more a creation of Ismaelites than a religion of itself…and how they still kiss this stone, etc….pagan influences still there…these people as well are part of the plan of the final days.

          • They never will, unless they convert.

          • Julie

            It also shows something very lacking in their own orientation.

            Now that I have you here….why do you think the Latins were more vulnerable to the Reformers than the Orthodox? Because we have not suffered as much?

            I have stated on Catholic Answers…it will take top theologians to draw both C hurches back together. I personally live in the Universal C hurch and am now more interested in learning about how Orthodox go to confession…an the issue of purgatory, alot drawn on it from Dante’s Inferno and how it affected Catholic culture in times past…and ended up with some points as hypotheses…not doctrines but were treated as doctrines. Almost comical to see Orthodox’ view of Catholic purgatory as a form of divinely inspired torture.

          • Julie

            It was not a simple slam dunk.

            You have to read church history and the events leading up to it.

          • Joe M

            I agree there is much exageration on the numbers, but if you remember l said we can’t know the numbers, but l thought at least a couple of millions considering the fact that Roman Catholic royalty aimed to please the Pope and certainly controlled their countries, outing any family that did not attend the Roman Catholic Churches. Even the current Pope acknowledged the foulness of the deeds and apologised. Protestants did not ask for an apology!

            I didn’t bring this matter up, and l don’t consider that people of this age has responsibility for it. God has dealt with it, and many have much regret over their vile deeds.

            I unite with you and thank you for saying that we proddies do not deny the Father, a Son and Holy Ghost, and the truth of Jesus Christ. I unite with you on the many truths you give, brother Walid. We are Christian brethren indeed! ❤️

          • Julie

            When will the protestants ask forgiveness?…or how about the pope who called on the temporal rulers…England included?…to come to the aid of the Eastern Orthodox under siege at Constantinople?…they were all off to the New World…

            How much is human?…and not either Catholic or Protestant…or that where religion evolves or should I say universal Christianity devolves..my word… into nationalistic interests and countries, who go to the same church, fight each other?

            Christ said many are called but few are chosen…and so we should tremble in our feet and not assume we are so readily saved.

            It is most pleasing to the Lord that we go before Him on trembling knee…Psalm 66….

          • Julie

            I read a Catholic man likewise referring to actual population numbers of times given and it was statistically impossible.

            This is all English based disinformation. They are about the most anti Catholics around.

            I credit the BBC for coming forward on the truth of the Spanish Inquisition, though. Bless them for that.

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            The City of Rome, at its height of power and wealth only had about 2 million people. Peking, (Beijing) had only about 400,000 people. The greatest and biggest cities of the world at that time had no more than 700,000 people. Had a genocide of that magnitude as those who allege that Catholics murdered millions, the economic repercussions of society at that time would have been recorded.

            In ancient times, when societies went to war, an army of more than 50000 soldiers is already considered a world conquering force. Xerxes and Alexander the Great only had at most 100,000 soldiers anymore and the rate of attrition would be exponentially detrimental. The logistics needed to move, feed, repair weapons, treat the sick and injured is a monumental task with 50000 soldiers, at 100,000 soldiers they are pushing their own capabilities to at almost breaking point 24/7 365. And in order to kill millions that army would have needed to be at least 200,000 strong, which is a logistical impossibility.

            Now contrast that to more modern times, during the Spanish Flu, millions were actually killed, the devastation of the economy throughout Europe was recorded and showed.The impact on trade, economic growth, expansion and building of cities were severely impacted, banks have records of negative equity, trade records show low demand for luxuries, but high demand for medicines, soap, disinfectants etc.

            So how is it that the murder of millions by Catholics has no documentary or historical evidence pointing to that event? (Of course some will say the Catholic Church burnt all records but that in itself is implausible.)

            So we see how deceitful people are, and those that repeat such vile lies and deceptions are no better than the liars that cooked it up.

          • Julie

            Thanks for some logistics. Yes you reflect another who broke down time and peoples’ living in those days.

            That is the point I dislike within Protestantism…those that hold them are usually anti this or that or anti Catholic and do not focus their faith on Christ like they claim.

          • Julie

            Don’t you recall Melchizedek…who instead of giving sacrificial animals as offering, instead offered ordinary gifts of bread and wine as sacrifice and spoke of the future perfect and perpetual sacrifice…

            The Tree of Life that went out of the Garden of Eden, the only tree that bore good fruit that was named?…or Manna from heaven…or Christ laid in an animal feeder?…

            Or when He spoke before His passion to many of His followers that they would eat and drink of His Body and Blood….but then they were horrified and left Him…?…I see the protestants here.

            And at the Last Supper He gave the context…Bread and Wine…fulfilling Melchizedek…the Daily Sacrifice….the Covenant of the Blood…the Eucharist…giving thanks and fulfilling the blessing of the bread at the table of the devout?

          • Julie

            Understood. But in Catholicism, faith is binding and our faith the Word Made Flesh, the Incarnation and restoration of God’s creation back to Him through Our Lord.

          • Joe M

            Gosh, Julie! In Presbytarinism, faith is binding and Jesus is the Word made flesh, the incarnate deity, and the restoration of us, his saints, back to our heavenly home through the atonement sacrificial offering of our sinless Lord Jesus Christ to the Glory of God.

          • Julie

            Good. So your beliefs do draw on that passage of the G ospel. Yes, we are all bonded to the Lord and I do see a common faith in yours and I live so far from you.

            But have respect for the Eucharist…please be patient and endure in the faith…as the apostles did and came to see the fulfillment of the Lord and HIs sacrifice…

      • Julie

        You don’t know the purpose of those who are gifted…St Francis of Assisi was given the stigmata.

        And it is not something anyone asks for either.

    • Dave Knapp

      Here comes Julie whatshername with her warmed over mindless crap…

    • mikifenn

      Julie, what are you talking about? Jesus had an incorrupted body, but I’ve never heard of a Catholic Saint whose body did not return to dust unless they were embalmed. Could you explain?

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Of course you haven’t heard about them – your sect isn’t going to offer this information to their congregation lest they loose membership. St. Cecilia is the oldest – she died in 107 AD – many others – you can google it lest you think I provide you with faulty faulty sources – here are a few names – St. Bernadette
        Soubirous, St. Padre Pio (had the stigmata, bled a pint of blood a day for 50 yrs), St. John Vianney, St. Therese of Lisieux. St. Rita of Cascia. St. Vincent de Paul, St. Sylvan (martyr, neck wound is still visible), St. John Bosco, and many more.

  • theophorus

    It’s almost like people are personally responsible for what they do! You’re making our point for us. If the Spirit is the same for all(and it is) then why do some succeed and others so clearly fall? It is because each person must COOPERATE with the Spirit, as the Catholic and Orthodox faith teaches.

    • Julie

      That is just it….they follow men, not Christ and those who are faithful to Him.

  • Joe M

    Man you should not say such a thing. You are a silly leaking vessel!

    • colin

      The mary of catholicism is the same as Aphrodite, Venus, or Diana of the Ephesians, Artemis, Ishtar, Inanna, Isis.

      But thats what you get when you mix – christianity with pagan religions..

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Satan is proud of you!

      • Joe M

        With some yes, they are sick, but most are not. Mary did live on Earth and she did give birth to infant Jesus, there is no paganism in that fact. Don’t you mix Christianity with paganism!

        Just because they go a bit over the top about Mary doesnt turn them into pagans. It cannot do, tell me why you think it does?

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Joe – there is so much in the Bible about Mary, but you don’t see it – too many protestants do NO study of the OT. In the Davidic Kingdom, which the Church is the promised restoration of, (Amos 9:11, Acts 15:16), the Queen Mother sat on a throne to the right of her son and she interceded for the King’s subjects ( 1 KIngs 2:19). Mary performed the greatest intercession of any living creature when she said ‘Be it done to me according to your word” She interceded at the Wedding at Cana well – and Jesus obeyed her request. Mary still intercedes, as she is in Heaven (Rev 12), as do all Saints. Please study the Battle of Lepanto to see how the Catholics defeated the Muslims in this great Naval Battle – it was the praying of the Rosary, and the Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe on the Mast Head of the Lead Ship.

      • not that nonsense again.

      • Jeff Benton

        ??? The Mary of the Catholics is the exact same one that the Gospels tell you about!!!
        Why do you peeps insist on calling Jesus Christ the son of the devil???
        Well, The gospels show peeps like you were doing this from the beginning…
        You peeps have been doing this for 2000 years now…
        I guess it shouldn’t be a shocker…

        Here is a hint for ya… A picture of Mary, or a statue of Saint Francis, is NOT a golden calf that folks dance and forn icate around…
        A picture or statue of Mary is NOT a diana statue where prost itutes and gays dance and forn icate around while worshiping a foreign false god…

        It is not even close…

      • Grandmere

        Jesus will make you pay for that!

  • Tom_mcewen

    I will be honest with you, individual protestants, yes. The protestant churches no. Because it is based on a lie or sand of you wish. If was going to go onto business with a man and starts out with a lie then what is truth. The Baptists tell me they are not protestant but original Christians, that is a lie, what else is a lie? Protestants don’t believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist and they have no miracles, brcause Christ is not there. God answers individual protestants true but churches no. I have been associated with about 600 pastors and I find the theology preached is based on a lie first then on personal opinion. There is not the presence of Christ in protestantism. Protestantism glowrring is based on 16th century thinking, its fruit is anti science, anti miracles and anti Christ. It is the theology of making Christ into their mold. protestants tell me lies about the Catholic church which I know are lies. the spirit of Christ is not lies. I have met a Orthodox nun with the holy spirit 200 km North West of Moscow
    It is rare, protestants who tell me They have the holy spirit are confused at best and liars at worse. protestants are not stupid, at their funeral they talk of the dead’s works not his faith. Protestants do much good butbut that is them notnot protestantism. Again the spirit of Christ is in Orthodox and Catholic, Protestantism NO

    • Joe M

      Well, the Spirit of God is within many Protestant churches, l know, and I don’t lie. The Roman Catholics are no better than the Protestant churches. There are clown churches doing silly antics but equally some of the antics of the Roman Catholics are equally ridiculous. God laughs, he does have a good sense of humour. In his dealings with me l am sure that he has shown me his sense of humour even when l don’t think it funny!

      • mikifenn

        Does God think this is funny, or sad?

      • Julie

        Clown masses are an abomination…and no more.

    • mikifenn

      Miracles do occur in non-Catholic churches. I’ve seen them. people have been healed of disease, drug addiction, and many other conditions of the human spirit. People have been delivered from demonic infestations. This in-fighting is ungodly.

      • Julie

        Yes, I went to them. We have healing Masses or people can go individually for healing. The confessional is also a place of healing and there have been a few times I simply say to the Lord that I have this ailment I pray will leave me.

  • Julie

    You are missing the point. Does yours have altar, sanctuary light, sacred space?

    I experience Christ in Protestant churches that is with the people themselves.

    • Joe M

      I have been in Roman Catholic Churches. In the various so called Protestant churches l have been to, there is an alter, light, and the churches are sanctuaries. There are private rooms where the minister priest can prepare for his devotions and sermons. There are no confession boxes! I don’t see any difference between the Protestant churches, and the Roman Catholic churches. In the large abbey churches there are different spaces for weddings, babtism etc which can be used by a Christian for private worship away from the congregation. The only items that differ is that Babtist churches have a bath tub in their church. In my church there is an alter table which is large and ornate wood which is used for Communion. We don’t have statues, and we don’t have benches/pews that are flexible for genuflecting as we don’t geneflect. We have cross symbols.

      If you experience Christ with the people then that is because he is with the people, we consider our people as the church. It is the people who are the church, the temple of the Lord. We don’t consider the churches as anything but buildings, although they are sanctified as holy spaces. If we sell our building, a service is performed to desanctify the building because we cannot control what people will use it for after it is sold. Some people turn church buildings into night clubs.

      • Michellemaria

        Excuse me, what no confessionals in a Catholic Church, I don’t believe you!

      • I am not sure Joe M. I have been in many disco-tech cafe latte churches and they all say they “experience Christ” and some of them are pretty nutty too. I am not sure at times of this “experience Christ” thing. At times I don’t experience nothing. At times I am glad and at times I am sad. And dare I tell anyone these feelings they tell me that I “do not have Christ”. I see judges and popes and interpreters everywhere I see. The strange things is that half of these folks who “experience Jesus” all the time are 50% divorced and their kids are hardly virgins. What are these people truly experiencing? Sin?

        • Joe M

          The way l now look at it, do they believe in the name of Jesus that he is their Saviour , and are they being moral in these churches and in their lives. We are ashamed if our children live with partners, but God is in the heart and we are not to blame about the atheism of our children. There is a limit to our control and influence.

          As a young child of 5 years old, l watched with my brother failing snow on Christmas Eve, and we heard carols being sung. I was convinced that God had sent angels to sing. My brother one year younger than me said no, it was impossible. I tried to convince him for some time that we were hearing heavenly voices, but he denied that God existed.

          I was embarrassed when l spotted carol singers hiding behind a wall and lamp post. I would not admit that they were human. He didn’t spot them so l didn’t let him know they were carol singers not Angels. However, that night, l realised that my brother was an atheist, and he has remained so for all his years. God was in my heart and l have always been aware of that fact but strangely he has not made himself known to my brother regardless of my prayers. I have shown him miracles yet he puts it down to coincidence, impossible coincidences.

          Most Christians have only their faith but that faith is nourished by Jesus even if they don’t realise it. In your position, your work, other Christians have a certain expectation that you are closer to God than them and they look towards you as a source of strength. That is hard for you to live up to but you can! God is in your heart and our Christianity is the absolute truth of God. You are working hard for God. God is with you, and you would mess up with the Bible if that was not the case. You are blessed and our Lord’s Jewish light is shining around you and in you. Keep on running the good race!

          Blessings ⏳.

          • Julie

            You are a spiritual person, thankful for that.

            I went to a Lutheran church for about a year on a case. It was part of my assignment. I experienced the Lord in them, experienced His love by them and I for them.

            But I thought to myself there was so much more, so much more…if only they could go further in their seeking for Christ that we have in the Mass, in the sacraments, the communion and lives of the saints.

      • Julie

        Yes…I experience Christ in other churches and gatherings.

        The confessionals fulfill the Lord’s initiation of the sacrament of penance at the evening of the Resurrection, and gave the apostles the power to forgive sin.

        When I go to confession, it is always hard to open up, But I ask to be more humble and then continue, but this time I speak to the Lord. The priest is simply His minister of the Blood.

        In Revelations, the Book Luther had no perception of, speaks of the Lamb with 7 eyes….the eyes represent His all knowing watch over us…and the 7 represents how He serves and ministers to us in His 7 sacraments.

        • mikifenn

          If you are an ardent Catholic, I seriously doubt that you ever attend non-Catholic services.

          • Julie

            Your disbelief is showing. I have a number of times. Many times in past year.

          • Julie

            This came up again…you have to now look at yourself. Where do you live? In Great Britain?…I have come to see that it is there that is the source of the worst anti Catholicism in the world. Sorry…but I am a grandmother and have been reading sources…and prior, put down and criticized because of my faith.

            The American Catholic Church does not denigrate other Christians.

          • mikifenn

            I live in the Pacific Northwest. I, too, am a grandmother and I have a degree in history and know how to do research. People on this website constantly denigrate Evangelical Christians and say terrible things about Protestants in general.. Everyone is criticized for their faith at one time or another. Jesus warned us that the world hated him and they would hate believers as well. My Catholic friends and relatives do not denigrate my beliefs nor do I denigrate theirs.. However, I have watched the Catholic channel and have heard a number of unkind words about non-Catholics.

          • Julie

            I live in the Pacific NW as well!

            I am interiorly afflicted with an in law who is very anti Catholic and has put a wedge between me and my own children, and I had to watch every word out of my mouth over Christmas. But leaving town I received great grace from the Lord to let it go, put it in His hands and not try to build any understanding for my faith, she believing religion destroys faith in God….and refuses to learn anything about my faith, her position almost superstitious, focusing mainly on using words and speaking positive or else…I forget what they call it….comes out of Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyers. I am so thankful my daughter no longer believes in the Rapture.
            I am old world and it is so profoundly devastating to me those who remain Christian all go to different churches from the same house. I just don’t believe in that. It is wrong.

            For me, it has been a matter of being quiet for so many years and then after I went into a Mormon bookstore and read what they really thought about my Church, and Christians as well…it came to the point now to defend my faith…and also came across after that, things I have heard my entire life.

            But forgiveness…and we will each reap what we sow.

            God bless!

          • mikifenn

            Many Catholics on this web site do denigrate other Christians.

          • Julie

            You have to read what the articles are about. The Septuagint…the most accurate translation that was applied by the Church, and how it assembled the Bible that took many people many years vs Luther, one man, who wanted a religion to fit his excesses and his theses pretty much wiped out Christ’s Church, the priesthood…many things. He was also very nationalistic…and the European Christian countries all evolved into nationalistic states…the warfare…a priest instructed us last year that WWII essentially destroyed what was left of faith in Christianity in Europe.

            I have heard and read things anti Catholic for many years here. I also saw a you tube of this fellow at an Emerging Church in Seattle bringing up the Catholics and if we used contraception, then Hitler would not have been born and so go figure…when in fact it was Protestant and secular people who voted for Hitler, etc etc etc. My children’s first principal in Seattle had the number one academic school but put God first …and she told me of growing up and Protestant children taunting her ….our history…the cartoons and caricatures…it goes on today. Our vietnamese community now has lost an entire generation of young people living in this culture, their parents fleeing the communists.

            Many of us have had our children lose their faith, and it is very sad when some Christian sect puts things in their heads and they can no longer believe in you or want to pray with you or share the same depth of Christ as before. I hear Catholics are considered as trophies in some Protestant churches.

            You have to take some of this as a contrast to what we experience at church….we only focus on Christ and our community and it is even sinful to denigrate.

            You have to also see the slurs that come up…those who become Catholic admit they held many misconceptions about our faith, and it is acknowledged those who did were taught so.

            We consider it a sin to misrepresent anyone and make people feel bad towards them…I had an older man, a protestant minister who shared work with me with a client, later accuse me of all sorts of things including being drunk on the job, and being banned, which never happened, luckily I am licensed by the state and nothing of the sort ever happened.

            This Christmas I had to watch my word…I could not say ‘Eucharist’…when sharing that I offered my mother in law to have the Eucharist come to her home, she a non church person and some one our whole family worries over the state of her soul. I was telling this to my other in law family and it was like being on pins and needles the whole time….one of them, righ tin front of me, passed a note to one of my kids, in a Catholic reception room for a luncheon, that ‘religion destroys faith in God’. It backfired but it made that child not want to be involved with any faith. I don’t like people try to take my children away from the faith I gave them.

      • Julie

        Ours are not building places but literal dwelling place of the Lord Himself. So this explains our form of adoration and the embellishments of our interiors to provide our Lord a worthy dwelling place in the tradition of the Jewish Temple. Same God.

        But yes, appreciate your comments and sharing on this.

        Confession was established by Our Lord on the evening of the Resurrection to the apostles giving them the power to forgive sin through Christ as His ministers, and to bind and loosen on earth and it will be done in heaven…

        The Church is as a living sacrament, breathing…we do not place our trust in man but in God alone.

  • Julie

    You are solo.

    • Jeff Benton

      Han solo didnt believe in the force either ay??

      Oh wait…
      My bad…
      😛 🙂 😛

      • Julie

        Believed in his own solitary way of looking at things in this case.

  • Julie

    Your concept of Christ is so shallow and of the earth, not of God Himself.

    Mary adored Christ continually and never let go of her sole mission to be His mother.

    We don’t know any detail of Christ’s hidden life.

    To think Mary had passion for any other than Christ Himself is blasphemy.

    And likewise you are clueless of the lives, reflected in the Gospel, of those who gave all for the kingdom, who did not marry.

    Mary is greater than all of these.

    You are into the all American cults.

  • Julie

    The Book of Revelations was written in code in Asia Minor, the place where Christians have suffered the most.

    But there is truth within the Book of Revelation…vain men with long hair who had power to poison souls….it is in code but it works for today as well.

  • Julie

    Correct…looking at the posts…it surely points to this.

  • Julie

    Our faith is defined in the catechism and lived out through the Council.

    It was sources from Germany that infiltrated modernism into Vatican II and caused much loss of faith.

    When in doubt, always pull out the catechism. We do not place our faith on men but in Christ alone. The Church is as mother and guide, but never takes the place of Christ Himself.

    Christ said we would always have the chaff with the wheat.

  • Julie

    No.

  • Julie

    Five patriarchs, all founded by the apostles. Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch, Rome, and Constantinople, the latter restored so to speak by the emperor when the Christian population in Asia Minor was almost entirely annihilated.

    A diocese encompasses a portion of land and within it are city churches or towns with their own parishes.

  • Julie

    Thus speaks wisdom. Thank you.

  • Julie

    Bless you….and we have strict rules because nobody can go out and make Eucharist. The Eucharist is the physical presence of God and He resides in our parishes so we have most intense rules to protect Him and the integrity of the worship place as well as many more to address the universality of our church…many people all over the world of different cultures…but we must have universal organization so that the universal and saving message of Christ in true form is communicated and sustained by people of many cultures, races, and tongue.

  • Julie

    It is called being a good guest and showing respect in hopes they will learn something from Christian behavior.

  • Julie

    Written text is open and vulnerable to misinterpretation.

    How many different churches in your town?

  • Стефан Евгений

    I take it that you did not read the links i provide.

    I can read the bible in the Original Greek, can You?

    The key word is heos ἕως untill and it is infinite so the neg is carried over So the bible said she is ever virgin, heos does not mean a change in condition, Here are examples.ἕως

    1 Cor. 15:25, “For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.”
    Phil. 1:10, “so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ.”
    1 Tim. 6:14, “that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
    You are the one who needs to read the bible insted of listening to dumb Ivan Preachers.
    Here is a link to a real Elder I do hope you read it may learn somthing.
    http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/88363.htm

  • Ricardo Hotatio

    Try using arguments instead of making stupid remarks.

    Where does what I say contradict the teachings of Christ.

    • Julie

      You invalidate Christ’s Church, His Word and Sacraments, and those believers who stood for Him to their death.

      You don’t know where you will be tomorrow so forget about being saved today.

  • PelayoHSV

    The quote by the Orthodox priest, about equating Protestantism and Papism. Is he decrying the Catholic Church and Catholic Faith as a whole? Or does he mean something else by “Papism”?

    • Julie

      Good question. i am seeing those who are in schism and those who are working for restoration.

      It is truly the work of professional and objective theologians to draw the two churches back together.

    • Willing to die for Jesus

      Yes, I cringed and noticed that. The author Thomas King, a convert from some Protestant sect to some undisclosed Orthodox Church, is critical of the post-Vatican II Church.

      So are many practising Catholics but some commenters have remarked that the Novus Ordo Mass has helped evangelized so much of sub-saharan Africa that it is now Catholic majority.

      The down side is that the removal of the Latin Mass is in the West where the Church has always been centered, in Europe and the New World, is that it has been Protestantized, and so many liturgical abuses have occurred.

      And you may be aware of the scandalous inter-faith Assissi gatherings that John Paul II was often involved in, plus during the 80s there were ‘clown Masses’ (not kidding). There is a move to restore the sacredness of the Liturgy in the West.

      Cardinal Ratzinger himself was part of the Second Vatican Council and a liberal at the time but then backtracked on reforms seeing how radical they were. A Cdl Daneels of Belgium almost single-handedly has ruined the Belgian Church which has/had the largest and most prestigious Catholic university in Leuven.

      And we saw the German bishops striking at the sacrament of Marriage as they did at the Synod of Rome last October, but which they African and Eastern European/Polish bishops prevented from taking hold. The idea of divorcees and outrageous those in homosexual civil unions being allowed to partake in the Blessed Sacrament and they were holding shadow councils.

      I’ve been following the sedecantist site novusordowatch.org since the early 2000s.. if you notice any liturgical or clerical issues, this is the place to visit. Note they are hyper-critical in the spirit of renewal but they are sedevacantist.

      On a related point, I am also looking to attend a SSPX parish but most likely cannot on a regular basis due to distance. But I want to donate to their parishes since they are upholding the Traditional Latin Mass that the Second Vatican Council abandoned… most shockingly to the objection of the Orthodox Churches. The TLM is the Western equivalent, the Latin Rite of the various Orthodox Church Divine Liturgies.

      And the Novus Ordo Mass has been criticized validly by many as essentially being the triumph of a Protestantization of the Catholic Mass. And recall during the Second Vatican Mass that Protestants had a large part to play as did Jews and even those who were Freemasons and others who should have played no part. Protestants were more influential in the 1962-1965 Second Vatican Council whereas now they are dead in Europe (see Scandinavia and Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc, UK and the Megachurch jokes of the USA).

      And I can’t help but wonder sometimes if Russia, the center of Orthodoxy in the Orthodox world was not behind the Iron Curtain and beholden to the Soviets, as were basically the entire Orthodox world, that they would have helped and played a more influential role to uphold the Latin mass.

      Em P Benedict XVI seemed to hold out hope for renewal or greater availability of the Latin mass and he did before P Francis, who I am now starting to see as somebody who is trying to hold back or was elected to curb the spread of the horrid Protestant sects from the USA into Latin America, they are truly toxic sectarians that Pope John Paul II decried. These are the same cowards, “evangelicals” from the USA, who will “evangelize” the Catholics of Latin America while ignoring the Muslim world.

      I am starting to see a lot of Protestant Bible-only theology as very similar, not theologically but methodologically, from the Muslims who likewise have a book-only creed and have no clerical structure and are obsessed with “idols” and “graven images”.

      Many practising Catholics these days attend SSPX parishes, and interestingly some say if France remains Catholic it is because of the SSPX and Latin mass societies, who are ordaining more priests than the Novus ordo church. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/if-france-stays-catholic-it-will-be-traditionalist/

      A contact from the Netherlands who attends the Latin mass basically agreed. Here is the US SSPX site listing those locations that have are SSPX parishes http://www.sspx.org/en/community/priories

      Though not some bishops are friendly to the Old Rite as its sometimes called, and some of Novus ordo parishes will have a token Latin mass service, while those bishops outright hostile are the ones where Catholics turn to the SSPX or switch to the Eastern-rite parishes placing themselves under an Eparchy and different bishop (eg, the Melkites, Maronites, Chaldeans, etc).

      As you may know Church Militant is against the Latin mass and SSPX, but the Remnant Newspaper is not and most sympathetic and most of its members I would guess attend the Old rite or sympathetic to it.

      Re Russia and “Papists”, I ignore the hardliners on both the Catholic and Orthodox ends who are holding back our Recommunion. If – the first time in 1,000 years an Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople attends the Inauguration of the Bishop of Rome/Pope Francis in 2013 – cannot be seen as prophetic of our Recommunion – those hardliners are not acting in the spirit of unity.

      Some of these Catholics and Orthodox in particular act as though the mutual excommunications and anathemas during the Second Vatican Council – the BEST thing to have occurred during the Second Vatican Council – never occurred. We are not technically excommunicated from one another, hence the Orthodox are the Sister Churches of the Catholic Church, which itself has over 20 Rites.

      Note there are also many Protestants converting to various Orthodox Churches who are continuing to hold anti-Catholic Protestant positions under the cloak of the Orthodox. These should be better screened by the Orthodox and these tend to go into the Orthodox Church of America (OCA), which is most unique as the only “New World” non-ethnic Orthodox church as opposed to the others that are centered around a particular ethnos, eg, Russian, Greek, etc.

      Nevertheless, I would never disparage or speak ill of the Orthodox unless in defence and this usually comes from converts out of the Protestants or disaffected Catholics into various Orthodox churches.

      There is also some issues with the Russian Orthodox about Our Lady of Fatima, the Marian apparition at Fatima, Portugal which is not required belief by Catholics (none of them are) but which many are devoted like myself since She did appear as Our Lady of the Rosary, the same who appeared at Vienna, Malta and Lepanto and whose intercession with the Catholics of Europe praying the Rosary led to the miraculous defeat of the Ottomans. The Martyrs of Otranto, Italy were canonized this past year who were beheaded and didn’t submit to Islam.

      And with Fatima… the end of Communism in the USSR and Soviet bloc nations, as you may know. But this itself is a huge area it would take so much time and space to relate if you are not devoted or aware of Our Lady of Fatima and the history here. But the papacy going back to JPII have all being consecrated to Our Lady of Fatima and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, this itself is a contention with the Orthodox, the dogma about the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

      But I think it can be worked out, I read with the West retaining the Marian dogmas while the East has its own. At the end of the day, both West and East believe in the Assumption or Dormition of Mary, that she was without sin and because the wages of sin is death, we can only assume she was gloriously taken into Heaven, like the Prophet Elijah.

      God bless you and may you persevere in the Faith.

    • Стефан Евгений

      What Orthodox Priest, there was none it was Alexei Khomyakhov.

      http://orthodoxwiki.org/Alexei_Stepanovich_Khomiakov.

      he was speaking on the western mindset Orthodox and westerners think diffrent

      • PelayoHSV

        my bad

        • Стефан Евгений

          No problem, fuggedaboutit

  • Julie

    You should get a catholic catechism to find out Who Catholics adore and not some trolling anti catholic preacher.

  • Julie

    The bible is meant to be pondered and reflected and acted upon. But because it is text it is so vulnerable to misinterpretation that leads to the breakdown of Christianity, so evident in America.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Idiots say idiotic things.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Read Rev 11:19 – Rev 12 – Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, and she is enthroned in Heaven at the right of her Son, which is the position of ALL Queen Mothers – 1 Kings 2:19 – AND the Queen Mother is an intercessor. Read your Bible – the WHOLE Bible, not just the parts that you like. Guess you missed that ALL generations will CALL her blessed – so you AREN’T in the generation of Christ. God Himself claims it is HE who is the author of HER NAME being PRAISED IN ALL GENERATIONS – get to scouring the OT for the answer.

    • Grandmere

      Hail! Heavenly Queen!

      • Julie LaBrecque

        These morons – they ought to ask themselves WHY Gabriel saluted her as a superior – HAIL – that is what is said to Royalty – Hail, King of the Jews.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Another excuse? Unfortunately, you are blindly ignorant. The church lived on nothing but oral tradition – so did the Hebrews – unless you think that Adam wrote about the events in Genesis.
    2 Thess 2:15, 2 Tim 2:2, 1 Thess 2:13

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Inside joke of which you know nothing.

  • So whats ticking you off today? When someone says “Luther” you say “The Pope” and when someone says “Luther” you say Tyndale and when someone says “Luther” you say “Prayer to Saints” and when someone says “Luther” you say “Mary” and when someone says “Luther” you say ….

    You worship a guy named Luther, don’t you? Common now, admit it.

  • So whats ticking you off today? When someone says “Luther” you say “The Pope” and when someone says “Luther” you say Tyndale and when someone says “Luther” you say “Prayer to Saints” and when someone says “Luther” you say “Mary had kids” and when someone says “Luther” you say ….

    You worship a guy named Luther, don’t you? Common now, admit it. Why else is he more important than Mary, the Saints, Joseph ….?

    • Jeff Benton

      In my opinion, most of the folks that dont want to think about – or flat out hate all of the icons, saints, mother Mary, etc… are really doing so because it is really really hard to sin when you have a picture of the sacred heart of Jesus Christ beaming rays of light down, along with pictures of the saints and the holy mother of God all around you…

      Kind of hard to be proud, envy, lie, cheat, steal, and forn icate, with all of the Icons of Jesus, Saints, and Mary hanging on every wall of your house LOL…

      (dont ask me how I know HAHAHA)

      Just a regular Joe with a loud mouth here 🙂

  • “I believe” “I believe” … whats this? Your statement of faith? What? You think we never heard these things before? Did Mary do these things Julie is saying?

    • Grandmere

      Funny, Chef. They never say “I believe in one God………..” The Nicene Creed. Why not?

  • Grandmere

    I am not familiar with Ravi. Chuck Missler is a brilliant guy who is still laboring under the pre-trib teaching. I like his lectures on particle physics and quantum mechanics. Also the 10 dimension theory. Very interesting stuff. Franklin Graham is a very sincere Baptist ( I think) who works with Catholics and Orthodox with his Samaritan’s Purse organization. I wont bash either of them. As an Anglican, I am like road kill. I get it coming and going. That’s okay. It helps keep me from getting too big for my britches.

  • Trevor is Protestant as far as I know. So whats ticking you off today? When someone says “Luther” you say “The Pope” and when someone says “Luther” you say Tyndale and when someone says “Luther” you say “Prayer to Saints” and when someone says “Luther” you say “Mary” and when someone says “Luther” you say ….

    You worship a guy named Luther, don’t you? It this or that Luther is your Pope? Common now, admit it.

  • Wanna try that again?

    You made one fatal error. You assumed I am Catholic.

  • A very nice comment. Makes my day. A rare thing around here.

  • “maybe if I fall on my face before the pope and kiss his feet he will absolve me of the curse that my grandfather bestowed upon himself! ”

    Try it. It might work.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Awesome, Jeff, simply awesome. These people need a kick in the pants to see that they are corroborating with the devil whenever they impugn Mary.

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    Typical, you will only be drawn into reading the anti-Catholic Protestant press. Avoid evangelical Christian news sites, they are among the most anti-Catholic. I’ve long stopped going to ChristianityToday and all those, they are so sectarian.

    Regarding your misunderstanding, if that is what it is, perhaps you missed this:

    “While there is a principled rejection of an institutional Jewish mission, Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner, acknowledging that Jews are bearers of God’s Word, and particularly in view of the great tragedy of the Shoah.”

    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html

    The Catholic Church is most sophisticated when it comes to inter-religious dialog that it can confound many, including Catholics.

    I would avoid the easy sound-bites of the media that are hardly drawn to the Truth but sensationalism.

    No offence but most Protestants are more anti-Catholic in their faith than centered on Christ. They will be willing to believe and spin anything negative about the Catholic Church and the only thing that unites most Protestants is obviously their Protest and dislike of the Catholic Church to the point of aligning with Muslims historically as they did so often at the Battles of Malta, Lepanto and Vienna.

    What a sad predicament that the faith of most Protestants is based on attacking Catholics and the Blessed Virgin than on focusing on Christ and returning to the Church established by Christ after His Ascension in the Catholic Church, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, along with Her Sister Orthodox Churches.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Bring some kind of credible evidence – I have all the writings of the Church Fathers – all you have to offer is conjecture and slander.
    Look up St. Ignatius of Antioch – read his 7 letters- I dare you to.
    Read Polycarp – St. Cyprian – St. Cyril – St. Clement – St. Anthony of Egypt – St. Justin Martyr. Then tell me – were these guys CATHOLIC – or were they PROTESTANTS?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Here – this is free for ding-dongs who never read the Bible as whole, just verse-pluckers:
    FYI – Joseph knew the OT – and he knew that no MAN could touch the Ark, on pain of death.

    Matt 27:56 “Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the
    mother of JAMES and JOSEPH, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.”

    Mark 15:40 “There were also women looking on from a distance. Among them were
    Mary Magdalene, Mary the MOTHER of the younger JAMES and of JOSES, and SALOME.”

    John 19:25 “Standing by the cross were His mother and his
    mother’s sister, Mary the WIFE of Clopas, and Mary of Magdela.”

    Matt 10:3, Mark 3:18 “…JAMES the son of Alphaeus…”

    Luke 6:16 “…James the SON OF ALPHAEUS…..

    Matth 13:55 “Is he not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James,
    Joseph, Simon, and Judas?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You don’t like the power that Christ left His Church? The Church has the power to ex-communicate – Matt 16:18-19, Matt 18:17-18 – Jesus advises them to treat them as gentiles or tax collectors! Oh – there IS PURGATORY – and you better thank God for it because very few of us are CLEAN: See what our Lord Jesus has to say about it:

    Matthew
    18:23-35

    “Then in
    anger his master handed him over to the
    torturers until he should pay back
    the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you,
    unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart.

    Matthew 5:22-26

    “But I say
    to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and
    whoever says to his brother ‘Raqa’, shall be in danger of the council; but whoever
    shall say ‘Thou fool’, shall be in danger of hell-fire. Therefore, if thou
    bring thy gift to the altar, and there recall that your brother has anything
    against you, leave your gift there at the altar, go first and be reconciled
    with your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Settle with your opponent quickly while on
    the way to court with him. Otherwise your opponent will hand you over to the judge,
    and the judge will hand you over to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison. Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid
    the last penny.”

    Luke 12:46-48

    “then that
    servant’s master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will
    punish him severely and assign him a
    place with the unfaithful. That servant who knew his master’s will but did not
    make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely;
    and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way
    deserving of a severe beating shall be
    beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with
    much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.”

    Paul offers his view on purgatory:

    “For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each man’s work will become manifest; for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

  • “The mother of Jesus had children after him!”

    Prove it.

  • I am not Catholic, but well said.

  • Grandmere

    He seems like a thoughtful protestant. Not all protestants believe their branch are the only ones going to heaven.

  • susan

    All of them? wow.

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    You can’t point to issues relating to morals. I, too, am anguished by the Western breakdown of morals among all Western peoples of various Christian background.

    However, the purpose of the article is how Luther ushered in what has turned out to be an anti-Christian movement, the Reformation, which has ultimately led to 40,000 sects and growing.

    And totally disregarding Christ’s words who wanted all of His followers to be in ONE Church so that the world may believe.

    Do you realize the fragmentation in Christianity not only emboldens Muslims but the atheists who point to our fragmentation and disunity as a reason not to believe?

    “Christians” are their own worst enemy! And the sectarians are the worst and will side with ANYBODY who is anti-Catholic spreading lies, such as the “Inquisition” being so bad, or the “Crusaders” being so evil”… doing so, many Protestants ally themselves ideologically with atheists and Muslims.

    Pointing at individual sinners is not the point. There are good and bad people in all walks of life Christian and non-Christian.

    Catholics and Orthodox likewise do not condemn non-Christians to an eternity of damnation. That is within the domain of the Protestants whose sola fide and sola scriptura is entirely unbiblical despite, ironically and tragically believing they are following the Bible and Scriptures. Which by the way were never meant for personal interpretation.

    Do you seriously think it is the working of the Holy Spirit or Satan that has led to all this division… 40,000 sects all in competition with one another and some in open defiance of the early Church left behind by Christ after His ascension.

    You need to study who the early Christians followed, what Church they belonged to from the time of Christ to Luther.

    And don’t be led by the spin created by the anti-Catholic sects who believe that somehow the Catholic Church became apostate… and see themselves as the “Church” like the Mormons and other anti-Trinitarian sects. And the claims of the Baptists are likewise laughable. These “Christians” are more anti-Catholic in orientation that Christian and spend more time in their “theology” (if you can call it that) attacking Christ’s Church than following Christ and His Mother.

    Good luck trying to defy Christ.

    How about following Christ in His Church, the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, being the Catholic church, which has never become apostate contrary to its anti-Catholic detractors among the anti-Catholic Protestant sects.

    Christ proclaimed for the world to believe we are to be one in His Church:

    “That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” (John 17:21)

    • SwampLife2002

      Willing you just made my day!!! I am always so encouraged by the knowledge the Holy Spirit has imparted upon you and the boldness by which you speak. This wS such a great explanation and it was rooted in love. And I hope all who read this will be enlightened and encouraged.
      By the way, my uncle who is also my God Father sent a Bible (St Joseph edition of the NABRE) and Catechism to me… I’m learning!!

    • Lidia

      Happy New Year Willing!!!!

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    I will also add that the Catholic Church has been at the forefront of attacking the Western death culture.

    You cannot judge the Church by the individual practices or defiance/ dissidence of individual Catholic laity or clergy on matters of morals relating to abortion or homosexuality.

    Do you realize it is ONLY the Catholic Church that has maintained the Christian teaching that the practice of Artificial Birth Control/ Contraception is sinful, something ALL Christians believed until the 1920s with the Anglicans backing down on marital birth control?

    Likewise, the Catholic Church that has fought and was currently in much internal strife at the Synod in Rome on the Family, with the issue of allowing the DIVORCED to partake in the Blessed Sacrament, the Eucharist, without a valid annulment.

    Faithful African and Eastern European/Polish bishops came to the rescue of the Family.

    If you judge the Church by the practices of individual Catholics that would be like judging ALL Americans or Westerners collectively, for example – as much of the world does, including Muslims – of being lazy, immoral and decadent.

    Is that fair? Nope.. so don’t do the same with the Church either.

    • SwampLife2002

      Can we get an AMEN for this truth!!!

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        Amen, thank you!

        Know I have been praying for you and your husband, even if I have not been able to respond. And so have others as well.

        You are likewise an inspiration to me and others and a great example of persevering in Christ amidst your trials and circumstances.

        The martyrs and Saints are such wonderful example, those who sacrificed so much for the Kingdom. And even those who simply led holy lives pleasing to the Lord, by being in this world but not being of the world as we are called to be.

        Praise be to God for the wonders that He is working within you. I pray daily for the perseverance of all of us in these trying times in which it seems the world has gone mad, on top of our own personal trials.

        And for the restoration of the fractured Christianity in the US and the English-speaking nations that are so fractured and disunited.

        I feel sorry for everybody, especially the unborn, the sick and vulnerable and all those being persecuted for their faith by the increasingly militant atheists and the Muslims. But sadly also at the hands of fellow Christians, both within and outside the Church, whom we pray are led into the fullness of Christ. And we also pray for our Church leaders too who are so vulnerable to attack by the Enemy by standing for Christ.

        We are all a work in progress and our walk with Christ is a daily one in which we hope to be a better disciple of Christ than we were the day before.

        And the Church gives us the structure we need with the clergy and sacraments, and we pray that our leaders are not led astray since the Enemy is pretty fond of particularly attacking Christ’s Church, Her Sacraments and Ministers.

        We saw this with the Satanists desecrating a statue of the Blessed Mother in Oklahoma just on Christmas Eve. One part of the body of the Church suffering is going to hurt another all around the world: http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/what-we-do/news-and-updates/catholics-defend-virgin-mary-in-oklahoma-as-satanists-attack-her.html

        Satanism is on the Rise in these dark days! And the horribly common practice of Black Masses they partake in by stealing our Consecrated Hosts used in the Eucharist. Satanists never seem interested in taking from Protestants since they know our Hosts are the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. Sadly the Protestants don’t seem to understand this.

        Anyhow, we never know when the end will be for any of us, so it is always best to be prepared and live in the service of the Lord. But also remember to fear not, for the Lord is with us!

        “Fear not, for I am with thee: turn not aside, for I am thy God: I have strengthened thee, and have helped thee, and the right hand of my just one hath upheld thee.” (Isaiah 41:10)

        And, of course:
        “If God be for us, who is against us?” (Romans 8:31)

        May God bless you and your loved ones mightily in Christ Our Redeemer and May the Blessed Virgin and all the Saints pray for you and also do the same for us all.

        • SwampLife2002

          Thank you Willing… My soul is uplifted…you have a wonderful gift… And you are using it to the glory of God. I convet your prayers and know that I pray for you as well and for all you mentioned, especially Pope Francis and all the shepherds! May the peace of Christ be with your spirit!

      • Rapheal Sebastian

        AMEN!

        • SwampLife2002

          Happy New Year!!!
          God bless you!

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            Happy New Year to you too dear sister in Christ! May your journey be even more fruitful this year. God bless you and yours.

        • Lidia

          Happy New Year Rapheal!

          • Rapheal Sebastian

            Happy New Year to you too, Lidia. May our Blessed Lord, God and Savior show favor to you and yours throughout the year. May He bless and shower you and your family with great health, deeper devotion and faith.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    I never said I didn’t like him – I am asking YOU if the James White you are talking about is the Flaming Calvinist James White.

  • Julie

    Why don’t you reread this article….

  • Julie

    Alot of this is not out in the open. A number of writings of Luther had to be expunged. once saved always saved? I know a Lutheran who told me he could go on sinning because he was saved. Likewise, Luther’s manner of speaking was akin to low level tavern talk.

    But alot of this is not brought up because there is alot of work going on now between the Catholics and Lutherans for reconciliation.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    To have allegiance to the Church that Christ built IS to have allegiance to Christ = the whole Christ, not a gnostic Christ.

  • Julie

    No.

    And there are alot of Catholics who uphold abortion.

    The article is not addressing that. But Luther is the father or founder of protestantism….and he did not get along with other Reformers either.

    But through his 95 thesis, he essentially wiped out the concept that Christ did establish one Church, that the Bible is indeed open to interpretation and it is Christ’s Church that is the interpretator of Sacred Scripture so that we can properly apply and live out God’s Word, and be testimony that the Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, her holiness not of herself, but of Christ, the life of the Church.

  • Julie

    Anybody with any sense, would never want such. But martyrdom is a highest calling in the Lord. And Paul was beheaded in the end.

  • Julie

    The Jewish Christians were the first Christians and many fled to Rome to meet in home churches headed by presbyters. But conversions abounded among the Gentiles and the Jewish Christians fell into oblivion…taking money from the poor to pray for the salvation of their deceased Christians….that sounds like a typical Protestant hysteric falsehood.

    From the beginning, it was the wealthy who supported the widows and orphans, and they gave freely, no one dictating to them how much to give.

    And as Luther threw out the Book of Maccabbees where it states it is good to pray for the poor…this is also an alms…and as sacrifice one gives a stipend…in the spirit of the Lord Who remembers the poor widow who gave all she had with her few pennies.

    When I give to the Church, I am not giving to men.

    That is what I see in protestants is that they are always looking at others to criticize or to follow this way or that.

    And look at the world we live in…so sexualized. You cannot blame it all just because they are celibates….what about the 95% celibate clergy who are faithful…what about the public schools who are over 100’s times greater than in abuse than the small percentage of Catholic priests…

    These are cycles…and our entire world is facing a great deluge…bad priests included.

  • Julie

    The Lutherans call themselves Catholic..atleast some do.

    Baptism, if it is Trinitarian, if it is done as such, irregardless to what church you go to, you are indeed baptized…in the broadest sense, into the universal Catholic Church. But you are separated brethren because you are not initiated into the Church by profession of faith and preparation for the sacraments.

  • Julie

    And also because of the derelictions towards Christ in the Talmud..that was banned in Rome.

  • Julie

    ??? good deeds filthy rags? I live in a big atheist city. And one cannot help but see all the good Catholics do here in the spirit of Christ. Too bad.

  • Julie

    I don’t know if I will be in heaven.

  • Julie

    Obviously no knowledge, just American preacher men.

    SS Peter and Paul founded the Church of Rome. Prior, Jerusalem the first p atriarch because Christ was born there, St. mark Alexandria, St. Peter, Antioch, and Constantinople.

    SS Peter and Paul were martyred under Emperor Nero between 64 to 67 AD.

  • Julie

    What happened to your family? Did they all become Protestants?

    And who told you we pay to go to heaven?

    Another of the great spins out there is that the Church had people pay for their salvation through indulgences when that never happened.

    It was a Dominican Tetzel who acted like a salesman in public doing that…in Germany…and so the image was created into a lie that the Church had people pay to get to heaven.

  • Julie

    So it is not good to make a claim that Mary had other interests beyond the Son of God.

    The Lord honored her virginity…How can this be? I do not know man?…’With God all things are possible’….meaning she will remain virgin, totally consecrated to God and given the most sublime self giving of her body and blood to Her son and nurturing Him every moment of her life with Him….

    There are men and women out there, Catholic, who are married, but chose to live the celibate life together. So if they can do it, ordinary still, so all the more Mary and Joseph.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    If you would study history, you would know that it is – Jesus comes at every Mass – just as Malachi predicted.

  • I simply prefer Orthodoxy. I have my reasons.

  • Grandmere

    If you were a member of this family at Shoebat, you would “get” the joke.

  • Grandmere

    You will be called to answer for that one day.

  • Grandmere

    ROFL. You are asking Julie if she knows how the Church was founded. When you are a newbie to this site it is best to sit down, be quiet and listen for a while before you open up your smart mouth and prove yourself to be an ignorant coullion.

  • mikifenn

    So many people saying the same thing–“when I went to a protestant church….blah, blah blah.” The number of people saying there was nothing for them in a “protestant’ church on this site defies the odds. I think much of what is written here about how awful they found the “protestants” to be is fabricated.
    One clue is that Non-Catholic churches rarely call themselves Protestant. They have a name–Methodist, Baptist, Episcopal, Assemblies of God, Foursquare, etc. The only “protestant” church mentioned here is the Baptist and that only occasionally.
    What dreadful protestant church have they attended? If what they say is true and I don’t believe it is, why don’t they research a church before they go wandering in?
    But after attending a dreadful “protestant” church, SUDDENLY they wandered in a Catholic Church and everything became wonderful. This defies rational thinking.

    • Joe M

      You are right. God loves us Protestants so no worries about what anyone else thinks. Jesus has never ordered me to go to an Roman Catholic Church on a permanent basis. I have dropped into a few R C churches, and what l see is what l perceive to be Christians worshipping, and that’s good, l am pleased.

    • Miki,

      Everything you just said defies “The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.” Have you ever recited, read, or studied the history of the Nicene Creed? Have you ever studied why this creed was developed and this council was called? Either way, the conclusion of the creed, (which is recognized by Protestant/Evangelical/Non-Denominationl/Methodist, etc) as a real and actual council that defined key doctrines for the church. In the conclusion of the creed, it states, “I believe in ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church.” Why do I mention this. Because precisely of the pandora’s box many have to go through to “find a church” by researching them.

      “Why don’t they research a church before they go wandering in?” A Catholic or Orthodox Christian does not have to ever research a Catholic or Orthodox church before wandering in. The Liturgy is the same. The Orthodox and Eastern Catholics have been using the liturgy of St. John Crysostom since the 5th Century. Most Evangelical churches change in 5-10 year increments. The Emerging Church movement (cited above in the article) is a huge proponent of this; one must change to stay with the times and minister to the millennials.

      Here is the struggle for Evangelicals, before attending a church, they have to determine what the denomination is and whether the denomination actually follows the founding tenants of that particular denomination. Then they have to sit through sermons to determine if the Pastor/Minister is a confused Calvinist, Hyper-Calvinist, a backwards Arminian, A pre-millenialist, a post-millenialist, an Amillenialist, etc. This is the trudgery of finding an Evangelical church. Does the worship team aspire to be Hillsong or Michael W. Smith. Chances are the Hillsong type worship style is coincided with Post-Modernism in its ever changing forms.

      When one wanders into a Catholic Church or an Orthodox church or a Byzantine Eastern Rite Church, one wanders into the ancient apostolic faith. Whether you agree with that statement or not does not nor will not change the mode, practice and pattern of the apostolic churches. They are unbending, unchanging and ever constant. Besides, no one was ever “SUDDENLY” changed by any other process than by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately, Evangelicals think Catholic and Orthodox do not have such “experiences.” What is experienced in the apostolic churches has been the continued residence of the Holy Spirit since it fell at Pentecost.

  • Julie

    By the way, because of Francis’ etiquette and respect for other beliefs, there are many Moslems now looking at Islam and seeing it does need its reform. Don’t have the article handy but P Francis is now giving Islam direction in restoring itself that also draws on common humanity and the use of reason.

    When a pope speaks, the world listens. D on’t see this reaction anywhere.

    Go to http://www.NewAgeIslam.com and that is where I found the article.

  • Amen.

  • You simply blather. Bring facts to the table and we’ll be happy to hear you out.

  • So do evangelical pastors who spew the same garbage you just said to me.

  • “To all my Catholic friends, I have a question”

    Why only ask Catholics? Why not also ask Copts, Ethiopian Christians, Chaldean Christians, Byzantine Christians, Eastern Orthodox; Russian, Estonian, Greek, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Georgian, Cypriot, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Latvian, Moldavian, Ukranian? Why only offer your question to “Catholics”? Do you always discriminate?

    “in a nutshell, we have religion telling us that we are not Christians because we don’t “belong” to their church”

    Do you know how many Protestants do not consider Copts, Ethiopian Christians, Chaldean Christians, Byzantine Christians, Eastern Orthodox; Russian, Estonian, Greek, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Georgian, Cypriot, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Latvian, Moldavian, Ukranian and Catholic Christians as “Christians”?

    Remember, Jesus at times answered a question with a question.

    • Tom_mcewen

      Walid, walid, you know the coptics who were killed were not Christians, the Baptists said so and they are the true and original Christians. I think their apostolic Father was Judas. Yes I am sure it was Judas.

  • Another “offended” individual? Is debate “mumbo jumbo”? As far as “anger” some do express anger some express disdain (like you), but this is freedom of speech.

  • Grandmere

    Get a dictionary or Google the word sacrament. Even non Catholics recognize sacraments. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are recognized as sacraments in protestant and evangelical churches.

  • Grandmere

    Something is happening. As apostasy gets worse the true believers are coalescing into tighter groups. Many are staying home, waiting and praying for direction. This will continue and the dogs within the Christian world will continue to snarl and snap. Have you noticed how close the regular family is in here? And moving closer. There is a nuclear fusion coming. Jesus prayed that his children would be one. His prayer will not go unanswered.

  • No more than 3,000 in six centuries. According to a study done by Spanish researchers in conjunction with the BBC, 95% of those were for legitimate reasons considering the laws at that time.

  • Joe M

    I am not an historian. Google it, then choose from what you think is the most reliable accounts. In these matters, the only one who actually noted the numbers of the martyrs who’s names were written down in his book, was Jesus Christ, no other scribe or scribes could keep a tally or attempted to do so! And those who couldn’t flee but died in his name by design or accident, they live for death cannot hold them.

    No person needs to back up proof of figures in such a matter regarding mayhem and terrorism carried out in an uncivilised age, it is impossible, but it is sufficient to know that many died, and it is a lie to deny these things.

    When it is said that 6 million Jewish people died in the gas chambers and at the hands of the nazis, then we can state that in those times, the Germans kept records of the numbers of those who died, and the evidence of the stacks of handbags, shoes, toothbrushes, etc left behind in a recent historical event is persuasive. But in a far off times , we can never know exact figures or anywhere near it but it is immoral to pretend that Christians who had to flee the Roman Catholic Church, were not persecuted and killed, or were but a few in number deserving of their fate for summoning up Bulzibub and committing blasphemy against God, and his appointed and annoited.

    It is not me leading these charges but l am being accosted as if l led accusations against the present day Roman Catholics great and small, when in fact l haven’t even levelled charges against ancient Roman Catholics.

  • All of these were killed by secular governments, not by Catholics, who had nothing to do with their demise. In the Soviet Union, where Orthodox and Catholics were imprisoned, they suffered their fates together as Christians. When a rare Protestant came into the Gulag, they, too, would shut up, put aside their differences, and abide in Christ. It will take Protestants suffering the sword in a real way for them to mature to this level.

  • Dave Knapp

    She’s a brick wall of catholic heretical nonsense which she has swallowed hook line and sinker….she is spiritually dead and blind as you can see….

  • You know it shocks me how many of your type just would never budge on a guy names Luther. its rather amazing. He must be a crucial foundation that if he is destroyed everything else is.

    Even if you can make your generalized arguments, would you deny that Luther wrote The Jews and Their Lies calling for the burning and killing of Jews? Sort of what Hitler did?

    Comon, go ahead tell me that the Jews and Their Lies is a lie and taken out of context. It is amazing how you undermine Mary and lift up some bum named Luther.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    About as rampart as protestants pastors cheating on their wives – and some killing their wives to clear the deck for their young congregant to move in.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Without a validly ordained priest with Apostolic Authority, nothing happens – scream at the top of your lungs if you would like – you would still have bread – you can thank Luther for ending any Apostolic Priesthood in the Protestant Churches.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    Can one lose his salvation?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    “I will give YOU(Peter) the KEYS to the Kingdom – whatever YOU bind on earth is bound in HEAVEN – whatever YOU loose on earth is loosed in HEAVEN.” Matt 16:19 Whoever hears YOU hears ME; whoever rejects YOU rejects Me.” Luke 10:16. “Feed MY Lambs, TEND MY Sheep, Feed MY Sheep” John 21:15-17. “Obey your leaders and defer to THEM for they keep watch over YOU and will have to give an account.” Hebrews 13:17. “Whosever sins YOU forgive, they are forgiven. Whosever sins YOU retain, they are retained.” John 20:23

  • Owen Schumacher

    “Show me a person who claims Christianity and lives in sin, yet feels no
    conviction, I will show you someone without Christ at all.” I would definitely agree with that statement, Strofe. The troubling thing is Luther’s encouragement to “sin boldly,” which is way off.

  • Tom_mcewen

    I think that British jet was a tail dragger. To bad the picture cut off the tail, was it a V.

  • Stephen Dalton

    The Jews were rejected because they rejected Christ, so the Lutherans didn’t get that wrong. The Catholic Church taught that doctrine since day one. But Luther in his old age absolutely seethed with hatred toward the Jews. Apparently, he was ticked that they didn’t accept him as the new Moses, so he tore into them in his famous booklet. Also, btw, Luther in his old age, regarded the Reformation as a failure. I guarantee the average Lutheran doesn’t know that!

  • Stephen Dalton

    Again Mel, bad Catholics don’t disprove the Catholic faith. What proves or disproves a religion to be true is its doctrine. Bad Catholics only disprove their own faith, not the faith of millions of Catholics worldwide.

  • Stephen Dalton

    Yeah, Luther thought he was all wise, and “knew” all the arguments too. He was so smart, he repudiated 1500 yrs. of Christian teaching. The true church wisely repudiated him. BTW, did your Ex-Catholic pastor ever tell you that Luther toward the end of his life, regarded the Reformation as a failure? As an Ex-Lutheran, I can say the average Lutheran is totally ignorant about the real Luther and real Lutheran history. All you get in your history books is a dung heap covered by a clean cloth. Whip the cloth off and smell the real history of Lutheranism.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Ok, and Jesus said, He who hears you hears me.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Nope.

  • Well, not really. I stated that I prefer Orthodoxy, but that doesn’t mean I am a full member of any of the Orthodox church. I see myself more as a Christian without any of the affiliation label. More and more, I find myself thinking in Orthodox terms, and whenever I need to look up at a particular question related to theology, the first source I go to is Orthodox, and at times, I will check what Catholics say.

    Since “discovering” the Ante-Nicene Fathers’ writings, I have been greatly enriched with their writings. Their writings have helped answer some questions I have struggled with, or confirmed some thoughts I have had, i.e. Christians will go through the Tribulations and not be whisk away safely to heaven as the pre-tribs teaches. It’s part of the reason I finally decided to launch my own blog so I can have a place to put thoughts on paper, if you will. Sometime I find the comment section too difficult to put a lengthy discourse on thoughts of issues pertaining to our belief.

  • SwampLife2002

    This was so eye opening!!!! Thank you! I am eternally grateful for the knowledge I gain from Walid, Ted and Mr King and all of you who engage in these discussions! God bless you all! So thankful I returned to The Truth!

  • SwampLife2002

    Tim, you may want to go and read the whole of it instead of accusing Mr King of lying. He only has the best interests of all believers at heart. I’m just sayin… : )

  • SwampLife2002

    Try to stay on the subject matter… Email Walid with a request and perhaps he will address the problems within the RCC … Although he probably already has knowing him : )

  • SwampLife2002

    I understand your frustration but never side if perfect and never will be until Christ returns for her bride… I say adhere to the Word of God, all of it… Test everything that is said against it… Don’t engage in foolish and stupid arguments over scripture and denominational issues… I personally believe the RCC is the original Church and I returned to it after 24 yrs listening to Protestant feel good be nice messages and watched people go out and live life fur themselves…wanting mostly to be entertained … I never felt a part of it. Try not to be angry it steals your joy!

  • OrthodoxKGC2015

    Idiot.

  • Yes, indeed. In fact, this is why I warn Protestants to never throw stones. They have much more blood on their hands, and their alliances were frankly diabolical.

  • My girl was laughing when she read that. Now, she calls me Dracula thanks to this article 😀

  • Not true at all regarding Orthodoxy in the East. American Orthodoxy is a bit weak, but the East would reject that argument.

  • Julie

    You don’t believe Christ taught His apostles and that they were given the authority to chose successors.

    You don’t believe in the Apostles’ Creed or Nicene Creed? I don’t know what you believe.

    The catechism contains our doctrine of faith in Christ and the tradition of living out our faith in Word, sacrament, liturgy, morality, in communion with the living and the saints.

    The work of the Holy Father is to be the sign of unity among all Christians, and to guide us in how to live out our faith in Christ today. Have you ever heard him preach? There is nothing unusual or contradictory to how we know Christ.

    But if the pope pastorally goes too far from the doctrine of faith, we don’t follow him. It all depends. Pope Paul VI requested all seminaries teach in Latin, and they refused.

    Seventy per cent of the American bishops, considering the lack of permanency of marriage in our culture, did not accept any changes to how the Church pastors troubled marriages and anullments, except to make them less burdensome. And the main trouble at the Synod came from a select group of German clergy who were in turn rebuked by African bishops.

    Consider Peter and his weak humanity Christ chose him to head the Church.

    If we are in doubt, we follow our local bishop who has the same authority over us as the pope. Only when the pope speaks in communion with all bishops, meaning their free consent, then we follow.

    Most of the time the pope speaks to us in encyclicals and not all of them carry the same weight. The local diocese guides us in our participation.

    If I disagree with P Francis and it troubles my conscience I go to Mass, I pray, and if there is any particular doctrine, I follow the doctrine and practice of the Church. Not a particular pope or a particular bishop or priest. So one must be grounded and knowledgeable in one’s faith to know the difference.

  • Trouble is…there is a letter from St. Ignatius where he corresponded with Mary and she only was accompanied by John. If she had other children, why wasn’t there another child to support Mary? Hence, at the cross, Jesus had Mary in mind and asked John to take His rightful place as the only child of the family to care for Mary. The absence of Joseph suggested he had died at some time before the cross.

    • Rapheal Sebastian

      Also read the Proto Evengelium of James. People who walked and lived with Jesus and His Blessed Mother are the people you go to if one wants info an truth, not some scriptural gymnast that keep throwing out, James the brother of Jesus, “Until”, etc etc. Peace be with you Trevor and a Happy New Year.

      • Believe it or not, I have read the first two or three verses of it.

  • Julie

    No I didn’t feel the earthquake but did many times in the dawn, the 1 to 2’s around Lake Washington.

    You are living in the same situation as I. And I met a Mormon man where we served the poor and i wanted to learn more about their beliefs. So I went into a Mormon bookstore, saw the books, read them…Yes…the great Roman Church…and her ….daughters. I spent several years with the Mormons on C atholic Answers…and we had thousands come to our conversations…and I am tired of it all.

    When leaving town, the Lord blessed me to let it all go. So I am working on it to let it go…let them have their say…and live in Him…but I may be staying at this hotel next time…

    God bless you …yes you will empathize…

  • Julie

    We know….St. Ignatius of Antioch on his way to martyrdom, named the church, He Ekklesia Katolika’….Greek…simply the Universal Church, incorporating the 5 patriarchs.

    But likewise you cannot omit the great importance so deep in the culture of offering the first born to God alone…note…God said all things are possible…she remain virgin but be Christ’s mother…and brothers and sisters in Hebrew mean kin, relatives, cousins.

    You have to go to translations. The Church used the Greek Septuagint, most accurate out there and used by Christ and the apostles and St. Paul, It was Luther who refused it, wanting to seek a pure version, and ended up with the Masoretic done 200 years after Christ where rabbis bickered and dissented…he wrote his own bible.

    But the bible was the work of many people, a long time, and much prayer and discernment and bringing forth all issues to look at it. Luther changed all that and so people revolve around one person or another person forming another belief system in Christianity…breaks all continuity of faith.

    And you are not recognizing Christ’s words of those who lived fully for the kingdom. Mary did. I am married with 4 kids and know by experience how even two can be so distracting.

    The ancient Christians, closest to the event, all venerated Mary as perpetual virgin. Luther and his other reformers lived more according to their fancy and way of looking at things…this also part of the flesh.

    So..if you don’t know any priests or nuns or enjoy the Catholic/Orthodox spiritual life that is drawn from the liturgy, it is hard to believe.

  • Ironic, coming from a person whose name is that of a Roman Catholic soldier who fought against Islam.

    • Michellemaria

      I was about to say the same then I saw your comment, Rudy.

      • This is what happens when bubbas try to appropriate Orthodox or Catholic verbage, I’m afraid.

      • Lidia

        Happy New Year Michellemaria!

        • Michellemaria

          All the very best for 2016 to you, Lidia!

  • Julie

    We put our faith in God alone. Do you know the priest must pray the whole office of the Hours every day and it begins with trusting in God alone?

    The Church defines the faith for us who did not live in Christ’s time or knew the apostles…

    Two thousand, eight hundred and 65 doctrines of Who Christ is, how we worship Him, how we follow Him, how we obey the 10 commandments, how we pray to Him.

    There is no where in the catechism of a pope telling us what to do.

    That is where I am coming from, Protestants look too much to man and look more at the pope than we do. If he appears to even not connect to the fullness of faith in the Lord, we immediately step back and watch. I did not connect to Francis when he first came out although taken greatly by the name of Francis.

    And he speaks off the cuff…not in decorum considering he is speaking to all people.

    But he is on the right track, showed respect to the Muslims…and now…www.newageislam.com, there is an article on there showing how P Francis is now helping Islam to moderate itself..how to become more humane and use reason….see…every step helps. and people judge by appearances.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    Thanks for your reply, well my point was to ask is it possible for one to lose the gift of salvation even after accepting Christ? It was both a facetious and rhetorical. Salvation is not a tangible gift that can fall out from one’s pocket as you rightly stated. But clearly scripture teaches that God does want all to be saved, definitely not by dragging them. Well scripture and the teaching of the Church has it also quite clearly, one can lose one’s salvation despite one’s claim of knowing the Lord and proclaiming Him as Lord and Savior.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    Read the Proto Evangelium of James 120 AD. Your problem obviously is that you are terribly misled into reading scripture in English as if the bible was written in English. You use the word “UNTIL” as if that’s your “there there evidence” when clearly 2 Samuel 6:23, I guess Michal had children after her death based on what you quote using “UNTIL”. Absurd isn’t it? Now look at what you wrote.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    And how is it that even the founders of your form of “Christianity” (whatever that may be it all finds it way back to these three), when they were searching to pull away from the Holy Catholic Church wouldn’t dare say the same things you are saying? Luther, Calvin and even Zwingli taught and preached on the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Theotokos? You see you have fallen for the lies of sophists, scriptural gymnasts and outright charlatans. You are in dire peril time to get down on your knees and ask the Lord for forgiveness for saying such things of His mother and then go do the research needed to mend your ways and not repeat the lies you have been taught to swallow and regurgitate. Repent for you still have time.

  • Stephen Dalton

    Owen, I wasn’t guessing you were Catholic. I was making a sarcastic comment about how some folks let their imaginations run wild when they think they see Jesus, Mary, or some saint in a mundane object. That’s all I meant about some Lutheran synod declaring a miracle.

    • Owen Schumacher

      Gotcha, Stephen. I see what you’re saying.

  • Tom_mcewen

    I was thinking of the supermarine swift

  • Jeff Benton

    Funny that those Catholic and Orthodox Scribes and Monks were surrounded by all those Icons while doing all that laborious hand copying of St. Johns writings huh…

    Lucky for you my puter is messin with me bad right now….
    Just sayin….
    No worries, Im sure we will meet again 🙂

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Your interpretation falls flat on its face prima facie – the King delegates the Keys to the Royal Steward – and whatever the Royal Steward binds is bound by the King Himself – which is WHY Jesus told Peter that whatever Peter bound on earth WAS bound in heaven – which is also proved by Jesus telling his disciples to obey and do everything the scribes and Pharisees told them to do – they had the Keys.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Do you mean about the Eucharist?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    What you label ‘religious delusion’ is the power of the Almighty God – maybe you forgot about Enoch and Elijah.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    St.Bernadette – does she look like a mummy?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You aren’t of an Apostolic Confession as is easily identifiable by your remark.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    ‘you ever heard of indulgences’? – Is the Pope Catholic?
    In light of that fact that Jesus provided a SPECIFIC example of the doctrine of indulgences – please tell us why you don’t believe in indulgences.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The Ark was the pre-figurement of Mary, not Jesus – the items in side the Ark represented Jesus. Man could not touch the Ark on pain of death – many people touched Jesus – now you might understand why Mary responded ‘I know NOT man.’ Also take into consideration Psalm 132:8 “Arise , O LORD, and come to your resting place, you AND your mighty ARK – if the Ark represented Jesus, this verse is nonsensical.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Jesus taught us how we could get His Blood – how does your church do this?

  • SwampLife2002

    Amen!!

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    Your point is? I clearly showed you your error by showing you and asking you to go read the Proto Evangelium, but you come back with a mother in law spiel. You obviously are not interested is finding out or learning, you obviously refer to go off tangent and remain willfully ignorant and invincibly arrogant in the face of facts presented to you that historically refutes your position and makes your statement untenable. I also would wager that you didn’t care to go find out what the Proto Evangelium states. I shall no longer waste time with you.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    Acts 9:31 in Greek clearly what the Church was, kath holos, the Church throughout the land (the world). This is where the Catholic Church gets her name. I have shown you where my Church comes from, now you show me in scripture where your church is named.

  • Julie

    You are really off the top. You are projecting alot here. When I say Protestants look too much at man, I am referring to reformers, starting with Luther. a person who had what looks like a most unbecoming personality disorder with physical ailments that went with it. I have known about such for some time, but have never commented on his disposition in this context until now. He was a highly unscrupulous person, he could not experience God’s love anywhere, so he had to start a new religion.

    As Catholics/Orthodox, we follow Christ through His apostles and successors, who are in turn united with us, and we don’t focus on any particular person outside of the tenants of our faith.

    There are 25 Protestant theologians who stand by the Church affirming that when Christ used the word, ‘rock’ He was referring to person….the translation both in Aramaic and Greek. Do you want me to list them?

    So you have all these Protestant denominations that have split off by individual men who are fractured themselves from Christ’s Church. And they project the same focus on one person as they do the pope, to the point that there are sects that accuse us thinking he is some sort of demi god.

    I have grown up close to the Church, and it is a common every day experience among believers to hear some Catholic, including priests, to make a critical comment against a pope.

    So much of it pertains to pastoral administration in serving those in need in the current times one lives in. The doctrine and traditions of faith don’t change, but pastoral administration and small ‘t’ ecclesial traditions do change.

    The catechism is something you need to look at, including footnotes that provide you the source of all and any doctrine — and it was not composed by any pope.

    It took the Church that involved many people and many years to assemble the Bible that you use.

    Who is calling you to repent???

    You have a chip on your shoulder. I am sorry but you are not making any sense.

  • Julie

    Were you ever Catholic? I know of a man who is Italian who came from a Catholic Italian family…but don’t know how many generations back.

    The foundation of Catholicism IS Jewish.

    I suggest you read Tom Nash’s book, ‘The Biblical Roots of the Mass’. Or Dr Scot Hahn’s, ‘The Lamb’s Supper’.

    You might also want to check out the Hebrew Catholics Association, highly educated, refined folks. We are blessed by them and Dr Feingold has a whole series on Israel and the Church.

    But it is good you are drawn to the roots of belief. The Universal Church, He Ekklesia Katolika (St. Ignatius so named in 107 AD…the original name of our Church, simply Universal Church, on the way to martyrdom) had the books of Scripture, the foundation of the liturgy, the ecclesial hierarchy of bishop, and the foundation of the Creed by 100 AD.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    Yes and that Church is the Catholic Church Acts 9:31. Your attempts to evade truth is not working.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    Thank you for your reply. Scripture as you have quoted makes the case against OSAS. The article quoted Luther in his sermons as documented of having said to sin and sin boldly and sin a thousand times because the ransom has already been paid, to paraphrase. As one of the founders of the Reformation, this is taught in some way, shape or form throughout many Protestant/Evangelical circles. I use the term Protestant here because I come from a Catholic point of view. That view is that anything outside the Orthodox and Catholic Church and all the rites therewith that are in communion with Rome are considered derivatives of Protestantism.

    The belief that OSAS , and this is where we differ, as per my own experience is quite pervasive among those circles. Let’s first define what is sin, the Catholic Church clearly defines what are sins and the gravity attached to such sins. We have to accept this historical fact that there were no other denomination churches around from the first century to the 1500’s, the whole of Christendom was Catholic, thus the Church defined and taught what is sin. Thus, what is sinful according to the Church is not in many Protestant circles. For example adultery through divorce and contraception, just to name two. If one accepts Christ and lives a life that is God fearing and loving yet uses contraception or is remarried to another is in continual sin of adultery for clearly scripture is clear on divorce and what is adultery. Protestantism allows this without much ramifications. The Catholic Church has been struggling with her own members being in such a predicament and have opened ways to allow members to come back to the Church but only after the legal processes and spiritual reconciliation is met. This is just to name one type of sin. There is a whole host of other sins that are glossed over, theological ones that are akin to blasphemy, the open rebellion against such doctrines and dogmas, in the eyes of the Church are grave sins which often repeated i Protestant circles that I will not cover in this reply.

    Thus, I am of the opinion that people tend to use OSAS as a crutch and thus the perception the licence to sin is not totally unjustified an allegation against those circles.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Luke 16:1-11

  • Julie

    We have to be careful likewise not to misread or assume apostasy either. Big difference.

    Especially when P Francis is providing assistance to the Muslims seeking reform on inserting common humanity and reason into their beliefs system.

    When the pope speaks, the world listens whether they hate him or not.

  • Rapheal Sebastian

    No need to pretend, unless you are saying scripture is wrong. Unless you are saying Acts 9:31 is a lie. Historical facts are facts, truth has no interpretation, it’s just truth. As for traditions look what scripture says about it, so your argument is a false one given that clearly traditions have already existed as Paul clearly said to in 2 Thess 2:15. You confuse Sacred Tradition for tradition, I don’t blame you for that, your pastor will want to keep you ignorant of such things, as he would likewise prefer you never read the Early Church Fathers, the Desert Fathers or the councils.

    You assertion that the Church is different from before is a accusation often repeated by for want of a better word ignorant fools. You make such an assertion, but never show proof like all the others that I have come across, your manufactured and rote learnt arguments always fall flat in the face of history and scripture and context. Not to mention when referenced to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

    I know you feel the need to repeat the vile allegations you have been taught, but you will never sit down and think in context, you like your ears to be tickled with aspersions against Christ’s one and only Church, be warned for all your words and deeds will be called to account, and I hope you have a great explanation for them. You see merely saying my pastor taught me such and such and I was merely repeating it because I thought that was what good Christians do isn’t going to fly, For clearly Matt 12:36 will come pass for you as well. As it will for me too. And if you believe scripture as you claim you do, then you have done yourself an injustice by ignoring Hosea 4;6, you have thus far not tried to gain knowledge but are somewhat satisfied to remain in such ignorance.

    This will be the last time I ever respond to you. So please do me a favor and never reply to me too. Peace be upon your spirit.

  • Julie

    He was a total fool and talk about stereotyping. the Irish and the Jews are best known for valuing education in America.

  • Julie

    Thank you and most welcome for your apologies.

    I think P Francis is indeed sharing the gospel by taking the first step in reaching out by renouncing violence as a part of religion, going right to the heart of Islam’s Waqf in Israel and Hagia Sophia.

    After his visit he denounced the genocide against the Armenians committed by the Turks, and now the Turks are looking at returning the Eastern Orthodox cathedral which is a museum at this time back to a mosque.

    We hope now Russia, who has offered to return the Hagia Sophia back to its intent as a Christian Cathedral, will also be the custodian as its cost in its maintenance is very high, the Greek Orthodox cannot afford it, and it is waiting response from Turkey.

    Francis does share his faith but it is the media either hiding it or misconstruing. You have to go to the National Catholic Register, not the Catholic Reporter– to find out what he is actually saying.

    And irregardless of ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ popes the Latin Church is a house divided on the sanctity of human life and gay marriage, most critical because without people, we can do no charity.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Tetzel abused the doctrine – but we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Did you read Luke 16? In light of how many protestants reject the doctrine of indulgences, I think I will prepare an article on it and submit it to Walid to see if he will publish it. This doctrine is deeply embedded in the Jewish Faith, which is the very faith that the Church sprang from. Just for one example for you to ponder – recall Abraham asking God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah – God replied that if a certain number of righteous people could be found there, he would spare the city – please ponder this deeply – it truly reveals how the merits of the righteous benefit the unrighteous. Also I ask you to ponder why Paul would pray for the dead unless he believed that his pray could benefit the dead – without the doctrine of purgatory, this too makes no sense. Luther’s novel doctrines absolutely ripped his followers from the Jewish roots of which the Faith is anchored to. Hope your New Year is great.

  • You are the one who assumed that Trevor was Catholic. And now you say “There you go assuming Walid.”

    Are you first ready to admit that you’re assumption was wrong?

    Of course not. Why? It is because you sir are a walking and living pride. I corrected you’re error and you simply do not like it.

    One who says he worships Christ should easily recognize a simple error before he is able to recognize his great errors.

  • Gloria

    What evil! What Luther did was worse than the killing Islam does. At least they only kill the body, how many souls has Luther damned his own included.

    I read this a few hours ago and I am weary from crying. It’s heartbreaking, and the murder of all the Jews, his inspiration too. I am stunned Thomas. Thank you for this work and truth. I sincerely hope those who have heart for truth will come to that truth and rid themselves of his heresy.

    That is one good thing I guess about so many churches falling into blatant apostasy right now. They cause those who long for real truth to seek it and I pray they will find it.