This is a fascinating exchange between a former Muslim named Ahmad Harqan and Sheik Sayyed Zaid, a very devout Muslim with Al-Azhar’s Fatwa Committee. Harqan left Islam but became an atheist. Nonetheless, as he explains in the video, his decision to do so came as a result of thinking critically.

As Harqan is delivering is critique, the looks on the faces of the moderator and Zaid would kill if they had the ability. Harqan also makes the claim that ISIS is doing the same thing Muhammad used to do and that there is no real difference.

It provides further evidence that ISIS is causing a political problem for Islamists like the one sitting across the table from Harqan. As such, Zaid attempted to distance ISIS from Islam.

As evidence that words matter, Zaid cited the “American media” as saying that ISIS is not Islamic, which is simply an amplification of what President Barack Obama said on September 10th. Zaid asserts as well that ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is not Islamic, despite the fact that al-Baghdadi has a PhD in Islamic Studies. He then blamed the Jews.

When asked to demonstrate why he believes ISIS is practicing Islam, Harqan pointed to Islamic friends of his who joined ISIS (via MEMRI):