SHOCKING AND AMAZING: Erdogan Has Now Declared Himself To Be GOD

By Walid Shoebat (Shoebat Exclusive)

Erdogan proclaimed himself God. You heard it correctly.

But before I break it to you, I was asked yesterday by a friend (Vinny Zee) if Erdogan ever declared himself to be God, that my article yesterday Vinny alluded that if others calling Erdogan “God” and “prophet,” does not qualify, since in 2 Thessalonians 2, it is the Antichrist who declares “himself” to be God and not just his followers.

This is a valid argument. But to answer it, is not something for a speedy Gonzales who wants a quick outline, it takes more than a thousand words and a keen eye to dig deeper than the surface. Read this, consume it, and prevent yourself falling into the grip of the devil.

When I published my article yesterday, I did not include most of the research I discovered thinking to wait for a more beefy Tostada and that folks would trust my track record on being cautious, so I gave only an example or two. So here it is, to all my pestering friends, I will start with the minor then to the major.

Today’s Zaman, a secular, not Christian, Turkish newspaper had this to say:

“An alleged supporter of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) welcomed President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan by chanting “Welcome, O Messenger of God,” a phrase commonly used to refer to the Prophet Muhammad, in the latest in a series of similar remarks attributing divine qualities to Erdoğan.”

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Ok, I could hear the argument, “some crazy parlamentarian called  him ‘prophet’, so what”. But it is not only one, Zaman adds:

“In another example, AK Party Bursa deputy Hüseyin Şahin at one point said that touching Erdoğan is a form of prayer, while AK Party Düzce deputy Fevai Arslan said Erdoğan has all the attributes of God.”

Now these are not some ‘Joe-Schmo,’ these are AK Party deputies from the Grand National Assembly of Turkey and members of parliament.

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AK Party Bursa deputy Hüseyin Şahin

 

A billboard  last month was erected for Erdogan’s birthday, February 26,  in the Gölbaşı district of adıyaman province inviting people to attend a “holy birthday” event to celebrate the birthday of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, except this celebration is not attributing the festivity for Erdogan as mere man, but as a prophet.

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A billboard in the Gölbaşı district of Adıyaman province invites people to attend a “holy birthday” event to celebrate the birthday of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. (Photo: Cihan)

 

Zaman adds:

“Among the activities planned for the event — scheduled for 7 p.m. on Feb. 26 — are a religious talk from theologian Ömer Döngeloğlu; a concert of hymns (known as ilahi [my God] praising God and extolling the characteristics of the Prophet Muhammad) by Recep Aslan and Bilal Göregen; and a sema performance (whirling dervishes).”

“Religious talks, hymns and sema performances like those planned for the president’s birthday are common to religious celebrations held in honor of the Prophet Muhammad’s birth.”

This is not treating Erdogan as mere man, but prophet. Whirling dervishes is not just Turkish art, but the process of Fana, on how one can become God.

Erdogan is also proclaimed as “healer”. When Erdogan once addressed the crowd from the platform, a woman was seen fainting. Erdogan gesticulated as if saying “bring her over.” Instead of being taken away by ambulance, the allegedly sick woman was taken to Erdogan. The stretcher was elevated to the platform and Erdogan reached out to the woman. She grabbed his right hand with both hands, screaming what the dervishes you hear in the video: ‘Allah, Allah, Allahu Akbar'”.

Sleepy heads who are hung up on some Nicolae Jetty Carpathia, need to begin taking their heads out of the junk and need to begin to learn more about Sufism and how man can become divine:

ERDOGAN DEMANDS WORSHIP

Erdogan is hailed, not only as “prophet” or “healer” only, but as one who can change the laws of the universe: “Spring has come to Sanliurfa. Both nature and history are rising up to greet our prime minister,” says Finance Minister Mehmet Simsek on Erdogan’s visit to the southeastern province of Sanliurfa on March 9th. Yet the Finance Minister did not face any sanctions from Erdogan for declaration of divinity  and neither did AKP lawmaker Fevai Aslan who on January 16th when he said: “Erdogan is a leader who gathers all of Allah’s qualities in himself”. Neither did the Deputy Health Minister Agah Kafkas was reprimanded when on May 19, 2013 he said: “To do what Erdogan does is sunna”. “Sunna” which the Deputy Health Minister was referring to is the obedience to Muhammad. In other words, to obey Erdogan is to obey the Prophet himself! And neither was AKP lawmaker Huseyin Sahin on July 20, 2011 was reprimanded by Erdogan for saying: “Believe me, even touching our prime minister is worship to me.”

 

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These are major figures and Erdogan as if he is Christ who did not denounce worshiping Him, Erdogan did not denounce worship either. And if one thinks that it’s only the followers who elevate Erdogan to prophet, healer, master of the universe and nature, or deity, think again. Just last week media from Istanbul, wrote this regarding Edrogan himself, firing anyone who denounces him being God:

“Turkey’s Religious Affairs Directorate fired an imam who is highly regarded as a hafiz — a person who has memorized the entire Quran — in İzmir on Feb. 23 because of posts on Facebook criticizing President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s use of religious terminology to praise himself. The imam, who asks that his name not be revealed because of the judicial process he has started against the directorate, told Today’s Zaman that directorate inspectors started an investigation against him when İzmir Mufti’s Office filed a complaint in May of last year regarding posts the imam had written, arguing that language used by Erdoğan and his followers goes against the principles of İslam. The anonymous imam insisted that it is a duty of religious officials to warn people when their behavior, attitude and language contradict religious mandates. In a speech in March of last year that many theologians found to be problematic, then-Prime Minister Erdoğan said, “Our mercy will prevail over our wrath,” to a crowd in Muğla province, using terminology from a hadith qudsi (sacred hadith), a category of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad which are attributed to God. The hadith qudsi in question states: “When God decreed the Creation, He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: My mercy prevails over my wrath.”

In other words, Erdogan Islamically proclaims himself as Allah. The statement “Our mercy will prevail over our wrath” in Islam only pertains to Allah himself.

But this is not only Erdogan using Islamic terminologies for such claims of deity. Speaking to the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) consisting of 57 member states from every Muslim nation on the globe, Erdogan uses termminology that only is known to have been said of Christ in the Bible. For example, God, in Zechariah calls Jerusalem “the apple of my eye” and Erdogan does the same in denouncing what Christ said that “Jerusalem is the apple of My Eye,” that is Christ’s eye. Erdogan said: “Jerusalem is the apple of every Muslim’s eye”.  Such biblical terminology belongs to Christ, God, regarding His Temple in Jerusalem. The prophet Zechariah prophetically declared what Jesus will proclaim regarding a temple that is prophetically built for Him in Jerusalem with use of this terminology:

Then I looked up, and there before me was a man with a measuring line in his hand. I asked, “Where are you going?”

He answered me, “To measure Jerusalem, to find out how wide and how long it is.”

While the angel who was speaking to me was leaving, another angel came to meet himand said to him: “Run, tell that young man, ‘Jerusalem will be a city without wallsbecause of the great number of people and animals in it. And I myself will be a wall of firearound it,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will be its glory within.’

“Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,” declares the Lord, “for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven,” declares the Lord.

“Come, Zion! Escape, you who live in Daughter Babylon!” For this is what the LordAlmighty says: “After the Glorious One has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eyeI will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.

How Erdogan knows this, or why he is using such blasphemy is unknown, or whether he manifests a demon or Lucifer himself remains to be seen. While Erdogan is the changer of Turkish laws, the dishonorer of women’s desires, the writing is on the wall, this man undeniably desires to be deified and Jerusalem is his focus. Must this not be a reason for all who are required to heed Paul’s instruction in 2 Thessalonians 2?

I believe it should. But we need all pieces to proclaim him The Antichrist. While he proclaims himself attributes of prophet and deity, he must enter the Temple of God making such declaration there. It is either Hagia Sophia, the Jewish Temple in Turkey or a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem, only time will tell.

And it is not as if all of the sudden AKP party leaders have just come up with all this deification of Erdogan on their own. It is actually the reverse, their deification of Erdogan comes from him and through them they proclaimed him as God.

With a book written with his approval titled “Recep Tayyip Erdogan: The Sun of the Age,” which proudly gives him titles that only belong to deity which even to Wahhabist Muslims, would sound bizarre, if not heretical. But whoever said that all of Arabia will accept Antichrist misses Scripture, that in Ezekiel 38, Sheba and Dedan mock his invasion of Israel and as we see Libya’s Haftar and Egypt’s Al-Sisi, both hate Erdogan today, these are perfectly set up for the invasion by Antichrist in Daniel 11.

And to be amazed with God’s wonder, whoever wrote Daniel, had it not been God, as the naysayers deny, Daniel would have to have understood that Turkey being pro-Muslim Brotherhood and that Libya and Egypt are anti-Muslim Brotherhood, would be some genius who knew exactly the politics and demography of today’s situation. Indeed, it is for thousands of these biblical points I read from the Holy Scripture was the reason I left Islam, left Antichrist, repented and I believe in Thy Name O Lord Jesus The Christ, The Son of The Living God Who died on the Cross of Calvary and resurrected on the third day as written in Scriptures . It is Thee whom I prostrate, it is Thee whom I worship. For to Thee, every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Thee alone is Lord over the universe. It is Thee who is the Healer, the Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. It is Thee whom every knee will bow, including Bel (Allah) and Nebo (the prophet) (see Isaiah 46:1).

Nabi or Nebo is prophet. This false prophet claims himself as god. To all Turks, “touching Erdogan” as “a form of worship,” and proclaimed that Erdogan “carries all the attributes of Allah in himself” is a great blasphemy.  There is only one who is to be called “The Sun of the Age,” who “carries all the attributes of God in himself”, that is Christ.

So lets wait and see if Erdogan “takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.” – 2 Thessalonians 2 1-4

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AKP deputy Duzce Miletvekili Feavi Arslan proclaimed that Erdogan “carries all the attributes of Allah in himself.”

Shoebat.com predicted this will be the outcome last year and even explained it theologically from a Muslim perspective (read here). Sufism is key, which we illustrated, before Erdogan’s coming out of the closet, this very issue, by quoting the most infamous of Islamic Sufi writers who is praised by Erdogan, Jalal al-Din Rumi, who wrote of how the goal of the Sufi is to become divine via Fana (eliminating the self to become God):

Remember the famous utterance of al-Hallaj, “I am God.” People think that to say “I am God” is a claim of great pretense and spiritual arrogance. It is actually a claim of extreme humility. “I am God” means “I do not exist.” He is all, everything is He, existence is God’s alone. I am without existence, pure non-existence. I am nothing.” “I am God” is not a claim of great pretension, it is a claim of extreme humility. There is more humility in this than any supposed claim to greatness, but people do not understand the inner meaning. When a man acknowledges his servitude to God, he is aware of his being a servant. He may see himself as a devoted servant of God, but he still sees himself and his own actions as apart from the one reality of God. He is not drowned in the Ocean of Divine Unity. Drowned is he in whom there is not separate motion or mobility. Drowned is he whose movement is the movement of the water. And so it is with the enlightenment ones, those who declares, “I am God.” Anyone who says “I am the servant of God” asserts the reality of two existences, one for himself and the other for God. But he who says “I am God” — and has realized the deepest levels of unity within his being — has seen through the illusion of his existence. He knows from the experience of unity that his own separate existence is nothing but an illusion. Knowing that, he casts its former selfhood upon the winds of oblivion. (Rumi, Hearts bear witness one to another, in The Complete Discourses of Jalal al-Din Rumi, discourse 11, p. 75, ed. Louis Rogers)

The deception is so immense that even Joel Richardson, who writes in both of his books not only praised the foremost Muslim scholar behind Sufism, Jala al Din al Rumi complementing him and asking his readers to learn from the Antichrist religion’s positive aspects stating that Rumi, the father of Sufism and Antichrist theology, as the essence and beacon for such transformation to God:

“Jalal al Din al Rumi was one of Islam’s greatest mystics. He practiced a mystical form of Islam known as Sufiism. Rumi often spoke of God as “the Beloved” or “the Friend.” Sufis’ such as Rumi also placed far more emphasis on Jesus as their model for life than other Muslims. One cannot read many of Rumi’s writings without feeling as though he was very close to being a Christian. There is at least one quote of Rumi’s that I have truly come to appreciate. Rumi said, “One day I was going along looking to see in people the shining of the Friend, so I would recognize the Ocean in a drop.”

How this shows love for Jesus by Rumi is astounding, he continues in his admiration of Rumi:

Rumi attempted to see God in all of His creation, and particularly in every one of His creatures.

Richardson’s fascination with Rumi goes too far to even admire the very religion of Antichrist’s peaceful form of Islam, Sufism:

Maybe you say that we cannot find any goodness and light in the religion of the Antichrist. But believe it or not, you can. And here’s the reason: Islam is made of Muslims. And Muslims are people who are created in the image of God. And many of them are genuine God seekers. As such, even in Islam there are things that Christians can learn from.”

Even Christians who claim serpentine wisdom, fall, how will it be for the rest?

Erdogan is a master of great deception. This is the first time in history that this connect was made. And it is not as if Erdogan is unaware of Rumi’s theology. Far from it. It was no surprise to us that the president of Turkey, Erdogan even praised Rumi’s work, revealing that he himself is not only Sufi but that he also believes in Fana “the art annihilation and becoming God himself”. Why else would Erdogan praise Rumi’s work The Masnavisaying:

“A work can live for more than seven centuries only if it is written with love”.

The Masnavi is amongst Rumi’s most popular works, and it is in this very book that the idea of man becoming divine is adulated. He praises the Sufi declaration “I am the Truth!” saying, “Mansur’s ‘I am the Truth!’ was purest light” (Masnavi, 2.307, trans. Mojaddedi)

When Christ said “I am The Truth” He was declaring Himself to be God Almighty. Likewise in Sufi Islam, this also exists, yet mimicking Christ. In Sufi Islam for one to exclaim, “I am the Truth,” is to say “I am God!”

Here is the bottom line. Many missed it because they thought that Islam can never deify a man while others even fell for the deception. Islam is filled with disclaimers like “we do not worship except Allah” while they deify Muhammad, Khalifa and Mahdi, giving these the titles: Al-Maqam-Al- Mahmud (The Glorious One), Awal-Khalq-illah (The first of Creation), Muhammad (The Praised One), Al-Insan Al-Kamel (The Perfect Man), Rahmatan-lil-A’alameen (Mercy to All Mankind), Al-rasul Al-A’tham (The Greatest of All sent by God), Shafi (Healer), Munji (Savior), Mahdi (The Guided One/Deliverer), Al-Mustafa Al-Mukhtar (The Chosen One), Amir (The Prince), which is the exact term for Antichrist in the Bible, Khatimun-Nabiyeen (The Seal of Prophets), Al-Hadi (The Guide), Awal (First), Akher (Last), Sayyid Walad Adam (The Leader of The Sons of Adam) and then at the same time Al-Siraj Al- Muneer (The Luminous One, The Glowing Lamp, Lucifarian).

When one sees Erdogan triumphant with the crowds of millions carrying fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow flags (Revelation 19:17), proclaiming himself deity, changing the laws … we should pay attention:

The man in Turkey will bring the worst persecution ever to the Church. In the meanwhile, please consider the serious issue on Christian persecution which will increase as we see these events unfold. we operate a very effective mission in rescuing fellow Christians. We are a unique organization (Rescue Christians) who rescue Christians, predominately in Pakistan that live under the Muslim yoke baking bricks in kilns under the heating sun. Christians in Pakistan are also burned in furnaces. To see an example out of the thousands we rescue, click here, and listen to the amazing testimonies first hand on how you can help and make a difference, now in this life and for eternity.
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal”.CONSIDER DONATING TO RESCUE CHRISTIANS

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  • DeusLoVult

    Wow! It’s astonishing, how many prophecies are being fulfilled every single day. I wonder how much longer we’ll have to wait before Erdogan sits in the Temple.

  • waffle_anna

    And right here come Lucifer in the form of this man..

    • Fr Christopher P. Kelley, DD

      And remember, among national leaders, Obama considers Erdogan his “best friend.” The dots are connecting…
      On Democracy, Erdogan says, “It is like taking a train. You get to the place you want, and then you get off.”

      • Grandmere

        Thanks, Father.

  • RodK1975

    Trevor: I tried replying to you comment but apparently the auto-moderator got ahold of it, so here it is:

    “PS…I cannot understand how Joel Richardson could say that we could learn from the religion of the Antichrist. Why on earth would I want to learn anything from them? All I gleaned from Islam is nothing but death and corruption.”

    You
    literally took the words right out of my mouth. Maybe it’s the fact
    that I was raised by people that refused to compromise on scripture one
    millimeter, but I can’t imagine how any Christian can say, “Maybe you
    say that we cannot find any goodness and light in the religion of the
    Antichrist. But believe it or not, you can.” Appalling…

    • Trevor

      Huh? My comment isn’t showing up, but is showing as “pending.” Hmm.

      • Higlac

        Even at this time, such things also happen to me now and then – as if some glitch in the software or some interference, either human or machine-related, is going on…

        Therefore, Trevor, please don’t be impatient – you’re not the only one so affected…

        • Trevor

          Or it’s from using a different browser. Firefox, FTW.

      • RodK1975

        Yeah, it was there at first, then it disappeared while I was trying to reply to it.

        • Trevor

          Anyway, whenever someone tells me, “We could learn something from so-so,” my response is always, “Like what?” And I normally don’t get a satisfactory answer.

          I blame that on my cynicism and trained in quality control.

          • RodK1975

            LOL

      • It’s Disqus being slow. It’ll sort out soon.

    • susan

      ….

      • RodK1975

        😉

        • susan

          😉 Sorry, i couldn’t resist. 🙂

          • RodK1975

            LOL… like my dad always says “If someone hands you a bucket of ice cream with a spoonful of dog sh** mixed into it, would you still eat it?” LOL

          • susan

            Yeah, my dad says that too. 🙂

          • Wisdom. Not quite the Church Fathers, but wisdom nonetheless.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Absolutely amazing, yet bewildering.

  • Kamau41

    Incredibly amazing, stunning and sobering.

    • Eric

      Kamau, it may just be because it’s 1 in the morning, but I feel. . .soberd and sad. I SHOULD be excited this supposedly means Christ is coming soon, but. . .I feel bummed out. Sure, nobody knows when He is going to return, but at the same time, I’m starting to wonder if my life plans are really worth investing in. . .and just the other day, I told Rod I’m careful not to get distracted with all this, and keep going with life. But as I look at the draft of the book I’m editing, I think, “Is this really going to mean anything or be worth my time?”

      I’ve got a feeling Satan’s trying to bog me down–little negative arrows–because the other thing I hear is “Oh don’t bother with any of THIS”–meaning all these books I’m writing and the other plans for my life– “because it won’t mean anything anyway since time is short, and it would be useless for you to invest.”

      But I know who’s voice that is–the Adversary’s. The fact that I’m still alive means God’s got more for me to do. It’s just things like this hit me in the face, and make me think of things. Sure, probably when Jesus DOES come and I receive my glorified, Superman-like body, I’ll be happier than a dog in a room with tennis balls, but. . .I still dream of what it would be like to be an older man with granddkids running around. Reading news like this makes me wonder if that won’t be possible. Who knows? I could be. Although, I would enjoy never growing old.

      I understand that what’s awaiting for us Christians that will Rule with Christ during the Millennium here on earth will be utterly amazing and beyond our wildest dreams. I guess my current human mind can’t comprehend that, and I guess I’m just wanting to live a little bit more. I just turned 22, and you probably know how 22-year-old guys are: eager and adventurous, and have big plans for life. (At least I do) I’d feel a little disappointed if I didn’t get the chance to reach at least forty, or have a wife and kids, but I suppose that’s just the human condition and state: we can’t see anything beyond our current reality, even if it’s more wonderful than what we’ve already got.

      • koolmom21

        No one knows how long the birth pains last nor do any of us know how long we will last. Any one of us could be hit by a truck tomorrow. God wants us to live life to the fullest and trust in Him. Hang in there and try to enjoy life. God is good!

        • Eric

          He is indeed, Koolmom! And thank you, Koolmom. I need to keep that in mind. I’m normally a very cheerful, easy-going guy that has a zeal for life, but I guess I had a moment of weakness there. King Solomon advises us to enjoy life to the fullest and trust in Him in Ecleastaicies. I need to keep that in mind, and perhaps focuses on the smaller things in life a little more. 🙂

          • koolmom21

            We all worry at times. Keep smiling and God’s blessings Eric!!!

          • Eric

            Thank you, Koolmom!

      • RodK1975

        Eric… remember what you said the other day… “Occupy” that means to work while it’s still day… work toward your plans and if they come to pass, great, if Jesus interrupts them, even GREATER. I promise you, .0000000000000003 seconds after Jesus returns, you’ll not have one doubt or one regret how things turned out.

        • Eric

          I know, Rod. I was telling that to Koolmom earlier. And I did tell you that. I suppose I should use my advice more often. Lol! Now, I’m fine. I just have small moments where I think of those things, you know? It’s just a feeling. I knew by today, I’d be back to my usual self. 🙂

          • RodK1975

            We all do, Buddy… And everyone, whether they admit it or not, knows it’s easier to give advice to others than it is to follow it yourself, we all do that too!

          • Eric

            Indeed Rod. Tis the human condition. lol

      • Grandmere

        Remember the movie War Horse? You will get through this.

        • Eric

          I know I will, Grandmere. It was just a moment I had. I’m back to my usual self today.

          • Trevor

            I know how you feel. I always feel like why I should bother continuing night school to get a degree so I could advance at work. It makes me feel like I’m doing it for pride’s sake rather than as a husband and provider for the family.

          • Eric

            Well Trevor, in this case, I don’t have a family to take care of. So in my case, it feels as if my toil is–as of yet–completely useless and ineffective. I know it isn’t in reality, but that’s how it feels at time. But it’s just a feeling, one that passes eventually.

          • Trevor

            You are one of the brightest minded Christians I have met online. God is going to use you.

            Remember the Scriptures say God chose the foolish thing of the world to bring to shame the wise, He had Moses, a stutter, lead the Hebrews out of bondage. If God can use a deaf person like me to surprise people, how much can God use you?

            Little is much when God is in it.

          • Eric

            Trevor, thank you so much for that complement! I know God has a plan, and I’m waiting for it to unfold. It’s just having patience for that is hard! lol. You mentioned Moses. Well, I stutter like he did. And you know how David was the shortest in his family, and harassed by his brothers for it? Well, I’m the shortest in my family too. No harassment–well, perhaps brotherly love teasing from my brother from time to time–but I do see those circumstances in myself from time to time. My mom tells me that it’s the most aflicted that do the most amazing things. I always recall from the Gosple of John: “This man was born blind so that the works of God may be revealed through him.”

      • susan

        Are you familiar with St. Louis de Montfort’s life? He inspired the peasants to build a huge monument to the Passion of Christ. For 15 months hundred of peasants volunteered their skills and labor to build it. When completed, it stood as a massive structure, a real labor of love, and on the day before it was supposed to be dedicated by the bishop, word got back to Louis that his enemies had convinced the government to destroy it. (They had lied to the authorities, saying that the structure was actually meant to be a fortress against the government.) When Louis received this disappointing news, he told the thousands of people who had gathered for the blessing ceremony, “We had hoped to build a Calvary here. Let us build it in our hearts. Blessed be God.”
        There is more to the story…

        • Eric

          I haven’t heard of St Louis de Monfort, Susan. But that is an interesting story. You say there’s more–I’d love to hear it. 🙂

          • susan

            I’ll post some more soon. 🙂

          • Eric

            Good. 🙂

          • susan

            Hi Eric! Here’s some more of St. Louis de Montfort’s life.
            One thing about doing the Lord’s work: It doesn’t always turn out according to our plans. For example, St. Louis surely had planned that his monument to Christ would last more than a day. Yet the St.obediently accepted the destruction of his plans and blessed God. Because of this kind of detachment from his own will and attachment to God’s, Louis became an instrument used by God to accomplish even mightier works. So, although his physical monument was destroyed, Louis’ teaching eventually became a huge edifice in the Church that exercised great influence on many Popes and on Catholic spirituality. Indeed, de Montfort’s passionate labors paid off in the end, even if he didn’t see the fruit himself. The story of St. Louis Dr Montforts life is from the book 33 days to Morning Glory by Michael E. Gaitley, MIC.

          • Eric

            That’s very interesting Susan! You mention that part of doing the Lord’s work is that most of the time, it doesn’t go according to our plans. Well, that reminds me of a saying my Dad has: “If you want to make God laugh, have a plan.”

          • susan

            You must have a very wise Dad! “If you want to make God laugh have a plan”. I really like that! I read about the different Saints and i feel so encouraged. I hope you will too. 😉

          • Eric

            My Dad is very wise, Susan. In a lot of ways. Practical, and otherwise. He may not be a biblical scholar like my mom and I are, but at the same time, he knows a lot. Amazing how that works. And I do feel encouraged. Thanks. 🙂

          • susan

            🙂

          • Eric

            🙂

  • AnthonyM

    Fascinating! The continuous chanting and head weaving is hypnotic. Does the origin pre-date Sufi Islam, possibly originate with worship of idols?

    • Julie LaBrecque

      That is a good question.

      • RodK1975

        Julie, see my reply to Mr Anthony

    • susan

      All I kept thinking about were those young men in flowing skirts and the pervs staring at them.

    • RodK1975

      Mr Anthony, Ted did a video some time ago about Sufism and the chanting and so forth and if I remember correctly he traced it through Buddism and Hinduism all the way back to tribal shamanistic pagan religions.

      FOUND IT!

      http://shoebat.com/2014/11/11/sufi-islam-pagan-shamanism-compared/

      • AnthonyM

        Excellent, thanks for the link! Checking it out now.

  • Eric

    Insanity. . .this is mind-blowing.

  • Grandmere

    It is interesting how you mentioned the Jewish temple in Turkey, Chef. That thought hit me when you wrote about it yesterday.

    • Fr Christopher P. Kelley, DD

      Reference is to a large, reformed synagogue, in a community where the Jews have left, but the Turkish government has recently “restored it.” In Reformed Judaism, synagogues are usually called “temples.” Walid wrote about it recently.

      • Grandmere

        Another possible location for the abomination of desecration.

      • Indeed, but if I have to choose which spot this man of sin does his deed, to be frank, I would suspect it is Hagia Sophia, the Temple of The Word of God. Evangelicals propose the possibility of such temple to be only in Jerusalem, while many Orthodox Christians object to such rebuilding referring to John 4:21: “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.” (John 4:21) They would argue that historically it has been the pagans who wanted to rebuild a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem during the mid fourth century and God struck them dead.(2)

        Evangelicals would argue that indeed, God struck them dead because this was not the right timing.

        But the solution to the dilemma is that it could be both. Antichrist enters Hagia Sophia and a newly rebuilt temple in Jerusalem as well. 2 Thessalonians does not speak of the Temple being in Jerusalem. But this does not negate that it could be in Jerusalem since Revelation speaks of measuring the altar and that the Gentiles would tread foot in Jerusalem for 42 months …

        But Isaiah 14 holds a key. While most brush through the verses in Isaiah 14 by doing selective reading without focusing on every word, verse 13 says:

        “I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north.”

        What is this “mount of the congregation”?

        This declaration is not regarding Lucifer in his angelic stage, but Antichrist “is this the man that made the earth tremble” (v.17) and is said to rule from Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-13) which Christ proclaimed would be the future seat of Satan (Antichrist). This “mount of the congregation” is on the sides of the northern lands in Asia Minor—Turkey. It is in Turkey that the Seven Churches and the Seven Lamp stands were and this is no small issue to ignore.

        Others see this “mount of the congregation” as the temple in Jerusalem. This is not without merit: “… the joy of the whole earth, in mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.”

        http://shoebat.com/2014/06/03/antichrist-will-soon-enter-temple-god-pay-close-attention/

        • Trevor

          I agree with you on the Hagia Sophia. When I looked it up online and saw how it overlooks the body of water, most likely the Mediterrean Sea, the verse from Revelation immediately came to mind how the dragon stood on the shore of the sea as the beast came out of the sea, and the dragon gave the beast his power, throne, and authority.

          http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oTmz2xbWcXo/UI6lSbW_8eI/AAAAAAAAPsw/GAER2tlVAAY/s1600/1B+Hagia+Sophia.JPG

          Here is also a map that is located in Instabul, which was modeled after Rome.

          http://binged.it/1xXYIKe

          I do know for a fact that the religious Jews have been making all the preparation for the construction of the 3rd and final temple. It remains very much to be seen if it will come to pass.

          • Steve Smith

            One day those minarets, will be gone. This is a rendering of what it once looked like.

          • Trevor

            If it is still around when Christ return.

        • EBH54

          What!

          • Grandmere

            Most of us think it is Hagia Sophia.

          • Never thought I’d be so intrigued to watch trains make emergency stops. I’m on my third video of them now.

          • EBH54

            It it is what I would see if I told the men in my protestant bible study, the antichrist might appear in the Hagia Sophia. Thank God it is in my house. They cannot throw me out!

          • Grandmere

            What the heck! Go ahead and tell them. You can upload a video of their heads exploding.

          • EBH54

            They do listen with humility ,but I have to pick my spots! They were there for me when my wife died. My intent is to have some fun with it.

          • Grandmere

            That’s the way to do it. Got to go easy on the extra hot sauce.

          • Grandmere

            Was that your brain screeching?

          • EBH54

            Actually I read this idea a while back on one of articles at this web site. Adopting a muslim anti-christ middle east centric end times model has been one screeching event after another. I like the challenge.

          • AnthonyM

            What’s that quote? Oh, yea: ‘I love the smell of hot brakes in the morning’

  • Higlac

    Wow, this truly IS quite a convoluted path of logic that Mr. Walid Shoebat has been able to expose to us as to how Recep Tayyip Erdoğan could well be progressing into becoming THE Antichrist (Son of Perdition)!!!

    I’m not denying it in the slightest. It’s just that this is not to be swallowed without really pondering over every chain. As these things add up, one must admire the process Mr. Shoebat has traced for us. It really takes MUCH WORK – how many of us will truly be up to mastering it?

  • whereugoingwhenudie

    Walid, I appreciate all your hard work but the one thing that stuck out to me and excited me was this:
    ” I left Islam, left Antichrist, repented and I believe in Thy Name O
    Lord Jesus The Christ, The Son of The Living God Who died on the Cross
    of Calvary and resurrected on the third day as written in Scriptures”….Hallelujah!!!! Praise his holy name! Jesus is the reason we are redeemed, hallelujah!!! Oh, show your mighty works in me too, Lord Jesus, hallelujah!
    Bring it on Erdogan, inadvertently, bring more people to Jesus Christ, the one true God Almighty, Great I AM!
    Because he lives song:

    • EBH54

      Thank you for the song it hit the spot!

  • Firstly, I do not spend my life monitoring comments, whether they get passed or not. Secondly, both Peter and Paul loved Christ, yet one rebuked the other. Thirdly, when you can produce evidence that Paul never rebuked Peter or that your “left hand” should be aware of what “your right hand is doing”, then I will be glad to be rebuked by you. What you give is to God not to me. Or is this a ‘tradition’ to push “donations” as means for a convincing argument? Fourthly, what unifies is not ignorance, but taking out the leaven. Fifthly, preaching humbleness must first be exercised by the one doing the preaching. I am not swayed by money, never was, never will. You can take your money elsewhere.

    • susan

      It’s the same old worn record. You’re saying something I disapprove of…stop it, or I’ll take my (God’s) money elsewhere. Whatever! Hit the road Jack!

      I hope the good comments outweigh the bad ones.

    • RodK1975

      Very well said. Part of being a Christian is giving and receiving rebuke, if we don’t rebuke each other, we’ll all end up blind and fall into a ditch.

      Proverbs
      12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

      I’m a little astonished at the reaction our minor critiques, of some of Joel Richardson’s statements, are garnishing.

      • Grandmere

        Me too.

    • Grandmere

      He’s not slaving away in a hot kitchen like you are Chef. He want’s a nice iced latte while he waits on his quarter pounder with extra cheese. He found out he was in the wrong place. I love it when that happens.

  • susan

    People hate Christians because they hate God. Christ is on the narrow path. I would certainly never claim that eschatology was something Jesus didn’t care about. How did you come to that conclusion? Joel is not being shot in the back. His own words are used.

  • Indian Christian Crusader

    Sufism is a form of hinduism, as Hinduism believes one can become God. Sufism is repackaged Hinduism for the Muslims who worship hindu death and destruction god Shiva (baal/allah) blackstone of Kaaba. Anyone who practices Sufism in a way adheres to Hinduism that, “Each person can become a god” through mystical experience. Not to forget that Hinduism believes that each and everything is divine and has God in it.

    • Grandmere

      I always appreciate your input. You are very insightful.

    • RodK1975

      ICC, I don’t think I’ve taken the opportunity to reply to one of your comments yet, but, I’d just like to say that all your comments that I’ve read, this one included, have been smart, well thought out and a great intellectual addition to the discussions at hand. Welcome, brother.

    • Correct Indian, Sufism is repackaged Hinduism and Islam is all cults and heresies repackaged in one.

  • Julie

    Seeing these videos, i makes me think of yoga being practiced in senior centers across the country, transidental meditation (spelling)…there are people into scream therapy…where they just scream out emotions to get some kind of release and healing..

    I see this all as opening one’s self to the fathonless inner being…in a form of mindlessness…where the enemy can enter. it even sounds spooky and inhuman…the strangeness of the sounds….expressing the most subtle sounds of the supernatural that are mysterious…and lead to new awareness….that are based on this continual opening of self…into the deep.

    There were the Immaculate Heart Sisters in Los Angeles….large congregation of women religious who attended a Carl Jung seminar…on turning into one’s self to find one’s self, to enter into one’s feelings…

    Jung just about destroyed the entire congregation with his seminar…and he talks about this later on.

    You cannot restore the dead man after choosing Christ…if you do…your eternal soul can die.

    But we must turn to the only prayer Christ taught us…the greatest prayer… the Our Father….His will be done, not ours.

    • Indian Christian Crusader

      Yoga is demonic, they say it is stretching exercises, not really. It invokes certain postures that is about worshiping nature/sun/divine beings, making chants. The new Hindu nationalist government in India is now pushing for it to be adopted internationally also in schools and universities compulsory. Christians are singled out for not doing that and branded as anti-nationals. Yoga also involves Surya-namaskar or Sun worship.

      • Julie

        I saw an Indian American woman taken back by Americans doing yoga because she said they are really drawing on their dieties. I have a client (liberal Jewish) who is doing this.

        I am waiting for this stretch exercise book to come to show to her.

        • I am amazed at the number of Christians getting inked up. Tattooing has always been linked to paganism and ritualistic practice. Today’s post-moderns have turned it into a hip, cultural, way of life. But if you were to dig deep into pagan cultures, I think we’d find they reserved tattooing for their rituals and “religious” customs. For many today, its a badge of honor. Heck I’ve even been seeing elders and such around, people well into their 50’s and 60’s with what looks like fresh ink, not something done 30 years ago.

          • Julie

            Reiki is another…enneagram…the American Catholic sisters who dominate…or did….were into this. So stupid. I mean to put people into categories to find themselves…so contrary to life in Christ.

            New Age is really bad…and what is worse is Satanism….I was at seminar last spring, invited by the pastor…and the deacon was saying he didn’t believe until he saw things at exorcisms in San Francisco.

            They all are drawing from one source.

            Anyway, I am going to show my client some new moves when I get the book on exercising that has nothing of spiritism in it.

          • “I am amazed at the number of Christians getting inked up.”

            I am amazed at the number of people who say they are Christians.

          • Ahh, yes. All we can do is, “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?” 2 Corinthians 13:5. My goal is to not fail the test, my prayer daily is to examine myself.

            Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. – Psalm 139:23-24 This is all I can pray some days.

          • EBH54

            I hate tattoos! Love the sinner not the tattoos!

          • Like even those reprobates who try to tell us Jesus has a tattoo on his leg when he returns in Revelation? Yes, love even those too, but it amazes me what people will try to justify from scripture.

          • EBH54

            FYI it was not meant as a rebuke to you or correction. I agree with you.
            It is just that I have heard it a million times. Love the sinner and not the sin. But what I really want to say is. I hate tattoos and body piercing, I find them disgusting!

          • I was going to initially say (because I am a protestant) “ah, the old protestant cliché, love the sinner hate the sin.” I mean it is true, but it is very cliché. There was no offense taken, I did not see it that way.

          • Owen Schumacher

            I’m not much for tattoos either, Vinny, especially the trendy kind we see in the West. However, remember that Copts have a tradition of tattooing the Cross on their wrists.

          • EBH54

            It is ok if Copts put tattoos of the cross on their wrists.
            They are family.

      • I have a bulging disk in my lower back. “Thread the Needle” is a yoga stretch, but it is also a savior for my back. It can really help get me moving. Other than that, you’d never find me on a yoga room mat. I actually learned that stretch from crossfit.

    • The world has gone mad Julie. The ironic thing is that this mad world sees us as “mad”.

      • Julie

        So true….marginalization is actually a sign of being one with the Lord.
        When the alienation hits, I try to call on the Lord and then try to find His will.

  • Julie

    We are seeing many saints now who are being martyred….they know what is happening and they prayer…their blood strengthens us.

  • susan

    Thank you for another timely article. When is the false Jesus arriving?
    P.S. I missed my daily dose of Theo-logic. I suppose he’s working on his book. I can’t wait to buy it!!!

    • Trevor

      If I had to make an educated guess, it would be some times after the Ottoman Empire is fully revived.

    • I was reading it Susan for the last few weeks. He shows how Christianity was and it is so different from what we see today and once we see how the past Christians thought, all the verses fall into place and a light bulb goes on.

      • theophorus

        The thing that pushed me from protestantism to becoming a Catholic in 3 more sleeps is I began to read the early writings of the first christians. A protestant can never be too careful in what he reads.

      • susan

        I like it when the light bulb goes on! I can see them going on all over the world as they read Theodore’s book! :)))

    • He did one yesterday about the raid of the gay bar in Russia. Interesting how much hate comments he gets which the moderator has to delete. What is also interesting is that you have thousands who think that our purpose in life is to moderate their comments.

      • Grandmere

        Sometimes I feel sorry for the moderator but, heck, somebody has to do it. I do try to stick up for him though.

      • EBH54

        People in line waiting to get their comments moderated at Shoebat.com.
        https://alccorting.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/long-line.jpg

        • Grandmere

          A big fat April Fool’s Day SNAP for you.

          • RodK1975

            Well Grandmere, just a few more days to find out if Marco is fasting internet for Lent or not. I hope he is, I miss him.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I hope he is still alive – have been quite worried about him – I’m trying to remember where he lives – was it Indonesia?

          • RodK1975

            Yes, I believe that is correct…

          • susan

            Yes. Indonesia.

          • Grandmere

            I think about him every day. Everybody, keep Marco in your prayers.

        • EBH54

          To the moderator
          Thank you for your work.
          We do not have to wade through a bunch of garbage because of you.
          The picture is meant as a joke, not a criticism.

  • I loved your testimony Walid of leaving Islam and accepting Christ.

    “But we need all pieces to proclaim him The Antichrist. While he proclaims himself attributes of prophet and deity, he must enter the Temple of God making such declaration there.” Yesterday, that was the second part of my post. Which is why I like it that you said, “So lets wait and see if Erdogan “takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.” – 2 Thessalonians 2 1-4 Truly we can only wait. I believe the one of whom Paul speaks is also that “abomination that causes desolation” Christ warned about (Mt 24:15).

    In the meantime, I want to continue to give the lost a testimony like yours, so they can also say, “I left (_________), left Antichrist, repented and I believe in Thy Name O Lord Jesus The Christ, The Son of The Living God Who died on the Cross of Calvary and resurrected on the third day as written in Scriptures . It is Thee whom I prostrate, it is Thee whom I worship. For to Thee, every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Thee alone is Lord over the universe. It is Thee who is the Healer, the Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

    “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whome his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods” (Mt 24:45-47). God bless you my friend, let us not cease to do good and be faithful servants of the household of God.

    • Thank you Vinny. Indeed, let us wait and only proclaim what happens as it happens.

      • theophorus

        Walid, what do you make of the ‘little horn’ reference?

        • Trevor

          The ‘little horn’ you spoke of is part of the 10 kings who have not received their kingdom, but he will subdue three of them. If you read throughout Daniel 7 and let the angel’s explanation guide you, you will see the little horn is none other than the Antichrist who will oppose all that is called God.

          That is why I have been so focused on the coming 4th beast, which is a mish-mash of first 3 beasts. Let’s review quickly:

          Lion = Iraq.
          Bear = Iran.
          Leopard = Turkey.

          Revelation gave us the clue what the fourth beast is because Daniel couldn’t understand what he saw, especially seeing how so different the fourth beast was. In Revelation, the fourth beast had body of a leopard, feet of a bear, and mouth of a lion. Notice how domiant the body of the leopard was with the beast? That tells you the tip of balance is in Turkey’s favor. I can confirm Walid’s research that Turkey does have one of the largest armies in NATO, trailing behind the United States (thankfully), and Greece is absolutely pitiful.

          Sidebar, for those who are intrigued by Greece’s new prime minister, please consider the fact that Greece’s economy is in utter shambles and it will take years to recover. Their military is small potatoes compared to Turkey’s.

          Therefore, Turkey will dominate the Middle East, even though it may not be easy. They will allow Iran to have their “feet” in respective terrorites, and Iraq will be crucial in the coming days.

          Revelation reveals that the river Euphrates will dry up, paving way for the 200 million man army to march from the East, most likely from beyond Iran to the western province of China where Chinese Muslims dwell.

          If we follow the angel’s information at the end of the book of Daniel, we can reason that the three kings to be subdued will be Egypt, Libya, and modern day Ethiopia (I think that is Sudan). As we know from reading many of the articles on the site, Turkey has their gunsight trained on Egypt and are making preparation for war against Egypt. I don’t have proof of this, but I’m going by my gut feeling.

          Hope this helps.

  • While you focus exclusively on the Middle East, don’t forget to save a little room for your neighbor 😉

    Yes, the time is short, only a short time for the lost to be saved.

    • Trevor

      I don’t follow about the neighbor bit. I am talking about how prophecy concerning events leading to Christ’s return were Middle East orientated.

      • I was being lighthearted. Not offensive.

        • Trevor

          Oh. Well, it flew over my head.

          • in my lighthearted nature, I was looking at where you said you were focused “exclusively on the middle east.” I was being facetious because what is “exclusive” is “alone”, it does not share space. So I was lightheartedly saying to not be only focused the Middle East but to save a little room on your neighbor. I guess it didn’t go over as well as it did in my head.

          • Trevor

            Don’t sweat it. I often tells joke that are hysterical in my head and end up having people look at me funny.

          • Grandmere

            Oh, no! You too?

          • Trevor

            Yeah. My sense of humor tend to be dry, sarcastic, or just filled with bad puns.

            If you seen me in person, you will be laughing more at my facial expressions than anything.

          • j7h

            I’m a lot that way too, Trevor. You’re in good company.

          • Trevor

            Nice.

          • RodK1975

            You’re a jerk, Trevor… And so am I and we both know it… LOL

          • Trevor

            FART NOISE!

          • RodK1975

            :-))

          • Woody

            Me, three…my wife warns people about me…my Pastor backs away from me ever since I told him i wanted to paint St. Therese’s toes.

          • Grandmere

            We are so misunderstood by normal people. But I don’t want to be normal. I’m fine just like I am.

          • Woody

            Yes, and beautiful

          • Grandmere

            When do I get a pedicure? Oh, that’s right. Even Papa has not declared me a saint yet.

          • susan

            Lol! 🙂

    • I thought the comment was pretty clear, but I’m paying attention these days.

      • I was going to wish you a happy Easter friend, but I’m assuming you follow the old Calendar, so next Sunday will be your Easter celebration? How do you observe Holy Week? I’ve had a much different perspective of Easter this year, for many reasons. Hope all is well my friend.

        • Lots and lots of appearances at liturgies is how I’ll be celebrating. It’s good to hear from you!

  • RodK1975

    Joel Richardson said:

    “Maybe you say that we cannot find any goodness and light in the religion of the Antichrist. But believe it or not, you can.”

    I am saying that if you know or believe Islam to be the religion of the Antichrist, then you should not be search for redeeming qualities in it. I personally believe this is asking to be deceived. Sufism is the most deceptive Islamic concept that there is and saying there is “goodness and light” in it is appalling to me.

    • His problem is that he visited Turkey and was greeted with such hospitality that as we say back home, humbled his spirit for whatever they wanted him to say regarding Sufism. Americans have no business meddling with Islam in a culture setting they are not familiar with.

      • Trevor

        My opinion is that former Muslims such as yourself who got saved by Jesus makes the best witness, and an expert on how deceptive Islam is.

      • RodK1975

        This kind of thing just really distresses me when continually we see people that are suppose to be Christians and suppose to know the Bible and make concessions like this when they should know full well the Bible says:

        2 Corinthians 11:14-15

        14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
        15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

        Like the Christians that reject what the Bible says about sodomy because they have “gay” friends that are “nice”.

      • richinnameonly

        I hope Joel comes to realize it’s part of the big deception.

      • j7h

        I couldn’t agree more, Walid. So true. Turks are VERY hospitable people. The secular Turks are safer to make friends with because they are not religious or are total atheists. Their kind – heartedness seems more cultural. But those who are practicing Muslims are like snakes, trying to lure you in.

  • Trevor

    I don’t know if it was my mind being engaged or having an active imagination, yet as I went to sleep last night, I started to dream about the scarlet dragon positioning himself to ready to devour the Man Child.

    I don’t know if this is significant at this point in history as we have Erdogan accepting worship as if he was God. We know from Christ’s temptation, Satan has a kingdom and would offer it to him if he worship the devil. Thus, it isn’t a stretch to see that soon, when satan is finally cast from heaven after losing the war against Michael and the holy angels, Satan is going to offer the kingdom to the fully revived beast of the Ottoman Empire. It is possible this could happen at the Hagia Sophia since the temple faces the Mediterranean Sea.

    So much still to take place.

    • RodK1975

      Brother, criticizing JR seems to be starting a hate fest in here, lol.

      • Trevor

        Yeah. I was talking out loud to nobody while driving to work and realized that, hey, even the Nazis were made in the image of God. So why would I want to look for something positive from them when they have been an instrument of cruelty?

    • susan

      Perhaps it will happen more quickly than we think possible.

      • Trevor

        Probably so.

        Have to remember it’s a marathon, not a sprint.

        • susan

          i remember. 😉

  • Trevor

    JESUS IS ALIVE AND HE IS MY KING!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upGCMl_b0n4

    • Sister E

      Amen, Trevor AMEN! Jesus the one who will cone as Messiah, hero and judge in His second coming. Jesus the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords! It reminds me of the hymn: All Glory, Laud and Honor, To Thee REDEEMER KING!

    • Grandmere

      I love that good old down south style black preaching.

      • Trevor

        Me too.

        • susan

          Me too!!!

  • Julie

    Some body turned the lights off in Turkey…God is God. Considering what Turkey did to the Slavic Christians, to Constantinople, to the Armenians…the name ‘turkey’ fits them.

    • EBH54

      They killed their light.

    • Sister E

      You’re right!

    • Trevor

      And it happened the day after Erdogan was announced to be a god. Coincidence or is ISIS pissed off because al-Baghdadi wants to be the Caliph? Be curious to see the cause behind the blackouts.

      • susan

        ….

  • rom,

    lets worry on what to do before this “catching away” since when we get “caught up” is the only time when we will know exactly when we will get caught up.

  • Tourists go and see the Darvish as something neat and artistic. Its a crazy world.

    • j7h

      My brothers went, while we were living in Turkey. They said you could feel a heavy demonic presence when you entered the city. They were young, about 9 and 10 and went with a friend of the family, but they were wise enough to sense that.

  • richinnameonly

    Joel has to realize that Sufism is just a major part of the deception. In the end it, along with the rest of Islam and false religion, will be gone.

  • Higlac

    WRONG!!!!

    Christian unity is meant to be unity in TRUTH, NOT unity for its own sake (as in some monolith).

    • Woody

      “That all may be One.” Jesus

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Christ prayed for TOTAL and COMPLETE unity for a very monolithic purpose – so that the world would know that God sent his son.

      • Higlac

        The difference is that Christ PRAYED to His Father for this: He Didn’t DICTATE it to His Disciples.

        • Woody

          He created it when He founded His Church on Cephas…

  • in my lighthearted nature, I was looking at the fact where he said he was focused “exclusively” would mean no room for anything else. What is exclusive is alone, it does not share space. So I was lightheartedly saying to not be only focused there, as our neighbor is still in need.

  • Grandmere

    Amen, Indy. Your truth detector got fine tuned. Same story for so many here. I can feel your joy and relief coming through. Things are going to get rough but you will understand what is happening and why. That is what will make the difference.

  • EBH54

    With a little imagination you can hear a sufi ceremony!

    • Trevor

      I think that the Lord was guiding J.R.R. Tolkein as he was penning the Lord of the Ring series because so much of the movies have reminiscent to the Crusades and battling the Ottoman Turks.

      Even when the Tower finally fell, only the orcs and goblins who were fighting for Sauron was swallowed up by the earth when the tower was destroyed. Those who were knights were spared.

      • EBH54

        Having Lord of the Rings as part of our popular culture gives me a little hope for United States and Western Culture. Maybe God will use it to help bring revival.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Tolkien wrote with intentionality.

  • “I have met Joel, read his books, heard him speak multiple times and have watched some of his interviews. He is a Bible believing Christian through and through.”

    So? Is he beyond correction? Yes? No?

    “There is indeed *some* goodness that can be found in any religion.”

    Really? What? It amazes me that folks writes stuff like this, yet they never explain or show evidence.

    “That does not mean we should accept the religion wholeheartedly”

    hmmm, wow, never knew that.

    “however- you separate the wheat from the chaff”

    Amazing. Sort of separate the leavan from the flour. Tell me, can you make Matza bread from fermented bread? Once you can, let me know, will you?

    “and use that to build bridges to win people to Christ- a tactic famed missionary Don Richardson used.”

    Yes, heard of the Camel method, despise it. And what is with this “build bridges” I hear all over the place these days? Everywhere I go everyone say “we need to build bridges”. Is carrying out the commission is all about building bridges? And to build bridges, must we then allow some leaven?

    Comments that are void of refuting the references are simply personal opinions and your is no exception one of the most common, missing the main ingredient, QUOTES:

    “Rumi also placed far more emphasis on Jesus as their model for life than other Muslims. One cannot read many of Rumi’s writings without feeling as though he was very close to being a Christian.”

    What do you know of Rumi? In other words, prove that this statement above is true. Can you? Have you? Will you?

    I doubt it.

    Rumi maintains that Jesus did not die on the cross, was not divine, nor was he the Son of God or part of the Trinity; that is, they deny all doctrines that contravene the uncompromising Muslim doctrine of tawhid (Unity of God; that God is one and without partners).

    In essence, Rumi’s theology about Christ is Antichrist.

    Do me a favor, go sell your ware somewhere else, will you.

    • Tom_mcewen

      “I have met Joel, …..He is a Bible believing Christian through and through.”
      So he believes you must eat Christ’s flesh and drink his blood and Peter has the keys?

  • ” i was just disappointed that a friend and co Author of yours was being slammed ”

    No one was “slamming” no one. If you pay close attention to what I stated “Even Christians who claim serpentine wisdom, fall, how will it be for the rest?”

    In other words, that Joel, a seasoned brother, could fall for Rumi’s trap, how will it be for unseasoned Christians? This is to build, warn and strengthen and it is exactly what Paul did to Peter and God allowed it in Scripture. Would you say Paul “bashed” and “slammed” Peter?

    In every article I write where rebuke is necessary, instantly I get “you bashed” “you slammed” “you lack love” …

    When in reality, it was the commenter who “bashed” and “slammed” the messenger. Also, when Paul rebuked Peter, was he following the rule “don’t PUBLICLY bash fellow Christians, UNLESS if they 100% false teachers.”?

    Where did such rule come from? The Bible? Definitely not, for in the Bible the whole world knew Paul rebuked Peter.

    Don’t get me wrong. I know your heart, your intent and your steadfastness and I know your commitment as well. God bless you my friend.

  • No where in the Bible is it said that THE anti-christ will be handsome, nor that he will be ugly. That article, that quotes Zechariah 11:16-17, “darkened eye” and “withered” right arm, is taking a symbol and pretending it is literal.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      “fierce countenance” – Dan 8:23

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Do you believe the ‘church’ is unified?

    • Woody

      Not in s long shot unless “you have eyes yet you do not see; ears yet you do not hear…”

  • Sister E

    Even if Erdogan is not himself the Antichrist, its evident that his mentality and actions are reminiscent of Antichrist. He very well fits the profile. Otherwise, he is the runner up paving the way for the Antichrist who will think and behave in a similar manner, coming from the Ottoman Empire (Turkey).

  • Sister E

    In fact, over the past few decades Christ has been appearing to some muslims in person, in dreams, in signs and wonders; talking to them, beckoning them to come to him, and healing them. As a result, many of them accepted Christ and are now Christians. We do not hear about their true stories because of fear of persecution.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    He is said to have a fierce countenance – Daniel 8:23. I’ve always connected this (fierce countenance) to what God said to Cain “Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?” Gen 4:6

    • Trevor

      I do not understand why Protestants insists that the Antichrist will be young and all that. Hitler was only 44 years old when he became Chancellor of Germany, even though he looked much older due to his tendency to fly off the handle repeatedly.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        I always wondered if the anti-Christ would enter the world stage at the same age Jesus did –

        • Trevor

          I have heard that before. It’s a possibility. Who really knows?

  • RodK1975

    😉

  • susan

  • susan

    Yes, i get what you mean. Joel is now Paul. Simply amazing!

  • Trevor

    That is a great observation.

  • EBH54

    It is not personal all toes get stepped on equally here.
    That is why I am here. I always get the unvarnished truth,
    No Politics at Shoebat,com
    For that reason you can be confident the money you give to rescue christians will be used wisely.

  • koolmom21

    Great comment!
    Wisdom is a gift from The Holy Spirit. You understand now because with wisdom comes understanding.
    God’s blessings Trevor

  • susan

    “Or Stephen Hawkings latest book where he said that science made a God unnecessary”.

    He can’t figure out how to repair his own body. The “science” he “discovers” already exists. He’s just trying to understand it. Silly foolish man. Thank you Trevor. I had no idea how deceived he’d become.

    • Trevor

      It broke my heart when I read his declaration. His body is a wreck but he is one of the brightest minds of our generation, and he was so close. So close to unlock the secret of the universe and he lost it.

      He will find out too late that God is the Creator of the universe. He will realize that all the known laws of physics and quantum mechanics had a Lawgiver. Everything about the universe, down to the minute details beyond the sub-atomic level are all governed by laws, and those laws had an Author, namely God.

      It is truly a shame.

      • susan

        You have such a gift for words Trevor! Thank you for using it to glorify God.

        • Trevor

          Susan, I was reading again through Clement writing, and came across this passage. I immediately thought of this conversation, and lo, look at how beautifully Clement wrote of how the universe are governed by God’s law!

          “The heavens, revolving under His government, are subject to Him in peace. Day and night run the course appointed by Him, in no wise hindering each other. The sun and moon, with the companies of the stars, roll on in harmony according to His command, within their prescribed limits, and without any deviation. The fruitful earth, according to His will, brings forth food in abundance, at the proper seasons, for man and beast and all the living beings upon it, never hesitating, nor changing any of the ordinances which He has fixed. The unsearchable places of abysses, and the indescribable arrangements of the lower world, are restrained by the same laws. The vast unmeasurable sea, gathered together by His working into various basins, never passes beyond the bounds placed around it, but does as He has commanded. For He said, “Thus far shalt thou come, and thy waves shall be broken within thee.” The ocean, impassable to man, and the worlds beyond it, are regulated by the same enactments of the Lord. The seasons of spring, summer, autumn, and winter, peacefully give place to one another. The winds in their several quarters fulfil, at the proper time, their service without hindrance. The ever-flowing fountains, formed both for enjoyment and health, furnish without fail their breasts for the life of men. The very smallest of living beings meet together in peace and concord. All these the great Creator and Lord of all has appointed to exist in peace and harmony; while He does good to all, but most abundantly to us who have fled for refuge to His compassions through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom be glory and majesty for ever and ever. Amen.”

          • susan

            Thank you. 🙂

          • Julie

            Yes….God created the Natural Law…and He Himself follows it.

            He is not a god of chaos like some believe…and yet cannot believe God the Father gave us His only Begotten Son.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Faith and Reason.

      • Grandmere

        Think about this. Hawking is going to have enough strength to bow down on his knees and declare that Jesus is Lord. But it will be too late. An even worse fate awaits him if he doesn’t repent.

        • Trevor

          And that is what saddens me a great deal. Brilliant mind, yet he threw it all away.

  • Trevor

    Okay.
    The alms giving that Muslims are required came from Christianity. You clearly do not know the history of Islam, and I am not saying I am 100% familar with Islam as Walid is. Mohmmand borrowed many of his doctrinal ideas from Jews and Christianity, blending them with heresy and denial of Christ divinity and the denial of the Trinity. Then Mohammand gave it his own spin. He tried to convince early Christians and Jews to accept him as a prophet and was, thankfully, rejected. No wonder Muslims carry out the decree that Christians and Jews are to be killed. You want to find “common ground” with them? Be my guest. I will keep my distance from them, hold on to my guns because if they so much as try to steal my wife or daughter, they will answer to my bullets. It is my responsibility as husband and father to be the protector of my family.
    You are exercising the same fallacy as humanists do when they say that everybody is basically good and try to tap into that.
    Christians are being deceived by Islam. Christians are being deceived by those who claim to be Christians and that is because of the failure of the pulpit and weakened leaders. The Book of Jude warned this would happen. The Apostle Paul warned this would happen. Peter and James warned this would happen. Christ Himself warned this would happen.
    Jesus said that not everybody who calls Him, “Lord, Lord,” will enter eternal life.
    If you read the early church fathers, they even warn against trying to find “common goods” in others outside of the Scriptures.

    • False Trevor, Islamic Alms giving or Zakat is NOT a biblical concept. See my comment to yhoshua above.

      • Trevor

        Then it is perhaps better if I do not speak about Islam for I am still ignorant.

  • susan

    He knocks. 🙂

  • RU4IesousKristos

    Romans 11:25-27

  • Trevor

    Istanbul is indeed among the cities named with having seven hills. Another exist in the south, Mecca, Saudi Arabia.

  • Trevor

    Many readers are familiar with Epiphanes. His account are detailed in 1 Maccabees, and how it eventually led the Jews to revolt against him.

    To many of us, Epiphanes gave us the template of the Antichrist, since he was from the northern kingdom, divided after the death of Alexander the Great. Interestingly, Rome warned Epiphanes not to invade Egypt, and he ignored their warning at his peril. It was reported that Epiphanes died in Iran and was insane.

  • Trevor

    Think Hitler. I see that characteristics in Erdogan.

  • Trevor

    “A misunderstanding of end times prophesy will not cause a Christian to
    be lost. That is so ridiculous I can hardly believe a Christian would
    think it let alone say it.”

    Tell that to the people who fell for Harold Camping’s 2012 prediction. Tell that to the people who fell for the rapture that never happened way back in the 19th century. How many Christians abandoned their faith because of false teachers?

    You do not know the things you speak of.

    • Woody

      Agree…false prophets are everywhere, and how do we know they are false–they only need to be wrong once. Camping was wrong so many times but failed to see his own death.

      ————-

      1. Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent “new doctrines” in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner’s prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935.

      2. The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a “pre-tribulation” rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no
      influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize to goes to Darby.

      3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

      4. Darby has had a profound impact on religion today, since Darby’s “secret rapture” false doctrine has infected most conservative, evangelical churches. While the official creeds and statements of faith of many churches either reject or are silent about Rapture, neither do they openly condemn this
      doctrine of a demon from the pulpit.

      5. While not all dispensationalists believe in the Rapture. All those who teach the Rapture also believe in premillennialism. Both groups use Israel’s modern statehood status of 1948 to be a beginning of a countdown to the end.

      6. All premillennialists, rapturists and dispensationalists alive today believe the Bible reveals the general era of when Christ will return. The date setters of the 1800’s (Seventh-day Adventists who are date setting premillennialists who
      reject the rapture, Jehovah’s Witnesses who have set many dates) based their predictions upon speculative arrangements of numbers and chronologies in the Bible. Today’s date setters without exception wrongly believe that Israel gaining state hood in 1948 fulfilled Bible prophecy and that Christ would return
      within one generation.

      7. There are two kinds of premillennialists: Those “Date setters” and “Date Teasers”. “Date setters”, set specific dates which are in fact a countdown clock to the extinction of their own ministries. (William Miller, Charles Russell, Ronald Weinland, Harold Camping, etc.) “Date teasers”, share the same rhetoric of urgency that the “end is very soon”, but refuse to lock into a specific date. (Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, Pentecostals, Baptists, Grant Jefferies, Christa-delphians.)

      8. Most of the TV preachers who promote rapture and/or “date set” all wrongly believe they are a prophet of God with special illumination. Pentecostals believe they are inspired directly from the Holy Spirit as modern day prophets. Baptists believe they are illuminated with guidance from the Holy Spirit through the Calvinist doctrine of Irresistible grace.

      9. Christians reject all these false notions of God illuminating man and rely upon the pages of the Bible alone as a sole source of conduct and doctrine. . Find a church that exposes the Rapture as a heresy in your own home town

      • Trevor

        Thank you for your lengthy comment. It is clear to me you truly know your history of Church doctrine.

        I know that the pre-trib rapture theory was relative new, which is why I have rejected it. What I am stumbling with is the rejection that the millennium reign of Christ isn’t acceptable. Perhaps you could shed lights on that?

        I hope that you do not see me as a heretic because I have allowed the Holy Spirit to correct the error I have held to (pre-trib rapture, the Vatican as the WOB, etc), and committing myself to reading the Scripture in one year helped me to see how God is remarkable consistent with His words.

        What you have said about date setters or date teasers are true. It’s amazing to see how others cling to Dave Hunt’s or Alexander Hissolp’s books as truth when they are nothing but fantasy based on flimsy research.

        I thank you for your patience and wisdom. Thanks for also “having my back.” It’s becoming increasingly frustrated to see those who says they are Christians holding on to ridiculous pre-convient ideas and not allowing themselves to examine they may be wrong. You should check out this guy who claims to be a missionary. His response to me was mind boggling.

        • Grandmere

          I saw what tony said. I think we need to starve him from attention.

          • Trevor

            Who’s Tony?

          • Grandmere

            Sorry, Trevor. I got “your” missionary mixed up with another missionary named tony who was posting a couple of days ago. It’s funny. They only say they are missionaries when they are getting backed into a corner by their own words. Whatever.

          • Woody

            Tony. is who I pray to when I lose something (patron of lost items) St Anthony:
            “Tony, Tony, look around. Something is lost and must be found.”
            So far he has found the last 296 things I lost. ( I keep track)
            My Baptist girl friend, Jeanie, (which tomorrow Easter is the first anniversary of her death) when I worked with her at Penneys
            she dropped her cancer pill once night. Soon there was one person, then another, and another, all looking for it crawling on the floor. After about 15 minutes I turned to her and said, “Jeanie how bad do you want that pill.” “That’s my medicine of course I need it.” So I said, “Tony, Tony….” and pointed at the floor, and said THERE… she looked and said, “Oh, my goodness there it is,” bending over and picked it up. “But I looked there before. I’ve never seen anything like this.” “What you don’t know” I said, “is that St Anthony moves things.”

          • susan

            I second that! I’ve been witness to St. Anthony’s moving things so that I can find them as well. 🙂

          • Julie LaBrecque

            All three times I asked for his intercession, lost items were found: twice, my crucifix, once my friend’s dog.

      • Grandmere

        AMEN. Thank you for taking the time to spell it out. I only hope a few more people come to this thread so they can read your post.

        • Woody

          Just saw this==thank you, Granmamamamamma

    • edwitness

      He did not say they were lost because they turned away as you said. He said he thought they were lost because they did not believe what (he believes) the scripture says about the end times. Big difference. And William Miller did not lose his faith over the so called Great Disappointment. He simply went back to church and didn’t pursue trying to name dates for the return of Jesus anymore. He remained a Christian.(The midnight Cry: William Miller and the end of the World Oct.22nd 1844) You’re the one who doesn’t know what you’re talking about in more ways than just this one. The woman being in the desert? The word desert is not even in John’s Revelation. Those that walked away were never in the faith anyway.1st John2:19. And the same applies now. Blessings :-}

  • Woody

    What does the devil want most–to keep people away from Jesus’ Church, and he is very clever about it; Bishop Sheen once said, “The devil’s greatest deception is to make people think he does not exist” and he is soooo right. The Prophecies are like the bible–both are fine; it is the “misinterpretations” that are wrong or we would not have 40,000 churches all exclaiming “this is what Jesus taught….no this is what Jesus taught…no you are both wrong…Jesus taught this…agree or I’ll go and take my marbles and go home–why, “i’ll start my own church,” (a new founded every 6 days)

    • Trevor

      I agree with you.

      It is completely unbelievable how twisted some Christians say to other Christians. It is disheartening.

      • Woody

        Just saw this and how True:Email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser.

        PERSECUTION RISING
        The growing abuse, imprisonment,
        torture and murder of Christians worldwide
        Recent video of 21 orange-clad Egyptian Christians being simultaneously beheaded by ISIS thugs – along with a steady stream of other horrifying reports of their crucifying, decapitating and burying Christians alive, including children – have shocked the world.

        But while ISIS is unquestionably a nightmare-come-true, when it comes to the alarming increase in Christian persecution worldwide the “Islamic State” is just the tip of the iceberg.

        As WND’s acclaimed Whistleblower magazine reveals in its powerfully moving April issue, “PERSECUTION RISING,” today’s treatment of Christians in a great many nations is disturbingly reminiscent of the brutal persecution of the early followers of Christ.

        Even here in the U.S. I am soooo happy the Pizza Operator (Indiana) has made over $700,000 and still climbing by other Christians who are supporting her and her family. I felt good sending her money…

        • Trevor

          I think we can expect to see those type of persecution to come to the united states if people don’t wake up.

          • Woody

            Good news; I watched the scientists and medical doctors on the Shroud of Turin, and it is the burial shroud of Jesus (which i never doubted); 99.9% accurate- the only way to make it 100% if one were to take a drop of Jesus’ blood today and that is impossible …

          • Trevor

            You know, I was thinking about our conversation about Peter, and realized that Peter must had felt like a failure. When he met Christ, He called him, “Simon bar Jonah,” and could you imagine his astonishment? Then Jesus told him his name would be changed to Cephas.

            Peter must had felt unworthy to be in the presence of the savior long before he confessed Him as the Christ. When Jesus told him which side to cast and catch fishes, Peter told Him to get away from him because he felt like a failure.

            Somehow, Peter couldn’t leave, even when over 3,000 did. He has seen the miracles. He heard the message, and couldn’t just leave.

            His heart completely broke when he denied knowing Jesus, exactly as the Lord predicted. Yet, Christ forgave and restored him.

            Peter wasn’t always perfect. He had to be rebuked by Paul for playing the hypocrite when he would withdraw from the presence of newly Gentile converts.

            Yet, Clement tells us that both Peter and Paul were martyred by pagan Rome. The site of St. Peter’s Square is reportedly built on the site of Peter’s martyrdom.

            If Jesus could appoint Peter to a high office, how much could Jesus appoint the lowest of low to lead His church?!

          • Woody

            TREVOR: “You know, I was thinking about our conversation about Peter, and realized that Peter must had felt like a failure. When he met Christ, He called him, “Simon bar Jonah,” and could you imagine his astonishment? Then Jesus told him his name would be changed to Cephas.”

            WOODY: Yes, whenever God (Jesus) had a special Mission” for one of his followers, He would change his name, e.g., Saul to Paul– special mission was to be “the Apostle of the Gentiles.” (OT-did the same), and for Peter he changed it to Cephas [means “rock” in Aramaic. The apostle Simon
            was called Cephas by Jesus because he was to be the rock upon which the [Special Mission]– Christian church was to be built] (although Jesus spoke fluent Greek [He quoted from theSeptuagint (Greek Translation at times)] But He spoke Aramaic, the common language, to the Apostles)

            Peter must had felt unworthy to be in thepresence of the savior long before he confessed Him as the Christ. When Jesus told him which side to cast and catch fishes, Peter told Him to get away from him because he felt like a failure.

            TREVOR: “Somehow, Peter couldn’t leave, even when over 3,000 did WOODY(He affirmed Jesus Words of His Body and Blood in the Eucharist),unlike those who “walked away” “To whom shall we go?” (John VI). He has seen the miracles. He heard the message, and couldn’t just leave.” – He knew the truth….

            TREVOR: “His heart completely broke when he denied
            knowing Jesus, exactly as the Lord predicted. Yet, Christ forgave and restored him.

            TREVOR: Peter wasn’t always perfect. He had to be rebuked by Paul for playing the hypocrite when he would withdraw from the presence of newly Gentile converts.

            WOODY: Yes, Paul did convince Peter as the final decision was made by Peter.

            TREVOR: Yet, Clement tells us that both Peter and Paul were martyred by pagan Rome. The site of St. Peter’s Square is reportedly built on the site of Peter’s martyrdom.

            WOODY: Yes, they were martyred on the same day but at different locations (one inside the City of Rome and one outside)

            TREVOR: If Jesus could appoint Peter to a high office,how much could Jesus appoint the lowest of low to lead His church?!

            WOODY: Sometimes I think God “toys with us.” This
            appointing of Peter to lead his Church, brings to mind my favorite verse on the arrogance of man, “My ways are not your ways nor My Thoughts your thoughts…they are as far away…yatta”

            Peter is mentioned 195 times…In the NT, while the next Apostle only 29 times – St. John… [my favorite RASCAL is Peter]]

            10:28 a.m., Saturday April 4 | Other comments
            by Trevor

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Saul didn’t receive a name change – He was a Roman citizen by birth, hence Saul – Hebrew, Paul – Greek/Latin

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Good points, the moral of the story is the God is the power behind the leaders of his people – though God’s guidance, the ship will stay its course – even when being tossed to and fro and about to sink – when most people choose to abandon ship and get on a raft – like Luther did using his own oars, sad thing is, now there are 40,000 life rafts on the ocean trying to make it to the other side. The Apostles had to abandon Jesus to fulfill the scripture about the sheep scattering when the shepherd was struck – Peter did hang around for a bit.

          • Woody

            I just passed on uploaded data and there are now 45,000 “Life Rafts.” Sad

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Ironically, Paul did something as hypocritical as Peter did – he made Timothy get circumcised.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Although it does match the blood from Eucharistic miracles.

          • Woody

            I took notes-neat show, although I always knew the first carbon 14 was not taken correctly. My view is there are not two men in history who died like this. Good luck on my notes as I am not a scientist:

            Carbon 14
            Radiation came from inside the body (from the Resurrection)
            How formed:
            John Jackson – Scientist
            Piczek-Scientist
            Shroud tight on body, bleeding into the shroud. Blood
            dripping down.
            How body got out of shroud—blood clots-he did not come back to life
            and stand up.
            Shroud had to be flat to make image perfect.
            Disagreement:
            Jackson – “Fall through” theory – Body became transparent-
            Shroud “falls through the body.”
            “No ears and no cheeks” shown – out of energy
            Isabelles: Scientist
            Moment of heat generation – body has to levitate up in the
            air-Shroud is above & below.
            Matter turns into energy – “beam me up Scotty.”
            Impassibility – body can move through walls..
            (Most like Jackson’s theory)
            [God tries to disturb the natural law as little as possible…]
            Allergist: Dr J Wayne Phillips, MD
            Carbon Dating: Fla DR
            100 experiments = 1978-1988 studied all proved authentic
            Carbon 14 limited when dying…measure deterioration of
            radiation
            1988 – 1260-1390 said a fake … a forgery so scientists go
            into hiding
            Hurrah!
            People with Faith do not give up .. algae on it? They were called “a lunatic fringe.”
            This “Lunatic” fringe becomes a hero–Yeah!
            2001 Sue Benford & Joe Marino (former monk) hit a home
            run Intnatl protocol – Turin authorities changed from 6 sites to one site
            Area to pick out – ignored data …flourescent light bouncing
            off the shroud
            What chemical in the area .. Original vs the nun’s Patch’d
            linen vs cotton (patch)
            Narrow channel ca
            Ray Rogers – cotton stuck together
            Put dye all over it with a reweaving patch job
            Thus almost 50% cotton taken 1238 – 1430 false reading
            Thus true experiments show Shroud getting younger and younger…

            “Reweaving responsible” bad sample for first erroneous carbon 14 test: http://www.womenofgrace.com
            60% cotton needed
            Non-C 14 showed Vanillin 0% (so way over 2000 yrs old)
            BAD: 1997 Shroud treated with THYMOL
            Cut out carbon deposits from nun’s repair– were wrong
            1537 (Year) Burn areas pure carbon
            Pam Moon – Without a Trace CO. NY
            Youtubve.com 16th century technique
            Verified no paint on the shroud so that erases “image painted
            theory”
            It was long before “photography techniques” known so that
            erases “photography” theory
            99.9% the shroud is authentic – need a match of blood directly from and Jesus who is dead, then alive…
            To make it 100%

            A miracle alone that shroud has not disintegrated…
            Blood type on AB and the same as Lonciano Shroud
            In each cell Mitocondria DNA Nuclear deteriorates to fast
            So get it from Lonciano with Mitocondria

            [I have always saw where Jesus’ blood type was AB]

            Tissue donated to Our Lady from Our Lady (would be in her
            descendents) Huh? Try and find them (me)

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You should watch the video ‘science tests faith’ and the one about Catalina Rivas by Tim Francis, can’t remember the name of it.

    • Grandmere

      I love to watch his old shows on EWTN. So smart. So funny. Mother Angelica is like that too.

      • Woody

        Mother Angelica is a hoot! Love her. Have you read her autobiography? When she was four she was sitting on a curb drinking as beer. As a nun she went to her Superior and told her (believe she was then in Cincinnati) the Lord wanted her to go down South to Birmingham and start a TV & Radio Station.
        Her Superior, said, “Yah right how much money do you have?”
        She pulled $10 from her pocket. Today she has world wide viewers on what’s become EWTN and Catholic Radio. I visited the radio station a while back and was crying when I walked in–the Secretary told me (after quizzing me) that I have “the Gift of Tears” [never heard at the time but my holier friends tell me it is a Gift of the Holy Spirit.

        • Julie LaBrecque

          The story of her father is the saddest.

  • RodK1975

    Yes, the Chinese Australian couple you mentioned is the exact danger I’m talking about. Maybe “goodness and light” mean something different to J.R. than they do to me. I see nothing wrong with using a point or an illustration from the other persons religion to witness Christ to that person as Paul did on Mars Hill. What I’m saying is that, to me, “goodness and light” only come from Christ and Christ didn’t put “goodness and light” in Islam. Anything in Islam that may seem like “goodness and light” to a Christian or anyone else is Satan and his ministers appearing to be angels of light as the Bible alludes to in 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 and many, many other places.

  • susan

    Lol. We were given this same dream to “interpret” in Psych class. It’s possible to read so many different things into this dream. That’s why it’s important to know your subject and to use a Daniel. The example you gave proves it. Thank you. 🙂

    • Woody

      Yes, the same as reading the Scriptures-we have so many churches preaching what they “say” is what Jesus taught (40,000), many with contradictory posits that it violates all rules of traditional logic (see Aristotle), and this is why St. Paul says “…listen to the Church…” and why he warns against false teachings….as Jesus did…”that ALL may be ONE.”

      • Linda Murray

        And the reason for that is because they haven’t bothered to find out & REALIZE that they have to let the scriptures DEFINE THEMSELVES! EVERYTHING that the NT writers, like Paul, said… MUST be looked at from PAUL’S perspective… not from our own perspective.

        Paul was a student of Gamaliel. In order to BE a student of his one *MUST* have FIRST had the Torah committed TOTALLY to memory. Paul not only had that committed to memory… but also the entire OT.

        MUCH of what Paul said to people was taken DIRECTLY from the OT. And he KNEW *exactly* what was meant by it in the OT. So *WE* also need to know ‘what was meant by it in the OT’.

        At the time these guys were saying the things they were saying… *there WERE NO NT scriptures*!

        • Woody

          Paul said “…listen to the CHURCH…” [see Timothy 3:15] for the truth (self interpretation of scriptures is just another heresy which 45,000 man-made churches in error have evolved from such stupidity with a new one born every 6 days) “I have my HS and you have your HS, bu mine is right.” What craziness!

  • If one is to say its time to dance while the other says its time to sing, you would be saying its time to walk out of the wedding.

    “Jesus Christ freed all from the cursed Law and the Prophets”

    Chapter and verses? Where did Jesus come to do away with the “Prophets”?

  • particularly, and I welcome constructive critique. But these days, constructive critique is viewed as “bashing”.

  • A misunderstanding that Jesus will ride a donkey instead of a horse caused most of Israel to be lost.

    • Amen. They still are, though Israel, in the form of Christ’s Church, has held firm, and the lost sons convert to true Christianity here and there. One day, we’ll all be one, as we were in the past.

  • As usual and like others who write without quoting the one they are critiquing. Replace Runi with Arius and it would be heresy, still. Will one find God’s truth in Arius? Nonsense.

    • yhoshua

      Mr. Shoebat, are you arguing that Jesus was wrong when He told the parable of the Good Samaritan? Wasn’t the whole point of that parable that “unrighteous” men are capable of righteous acts and that “righteous” men are capable of unrighteous ones?

  • “One example is one of the pillars of Islam is giving alms. This is a very biblical concept.”

    When one does not know what they say, they always say foolishness. Islamic Alms or Zakat is money spent in the way of Jihad. Had you looked up Zakat lately you would not write such nonsense. That plus you talk way too much which is not a biblical concept.

  • “I am *very* familiar with the history of Islam. I’ve read many books on the subject, listened to hours upon hours of lectures, have either attended or spoken at relevant conferences, have ministered in Muslim nations and have friends who were former Muslims (now Christian) as well as reading materials from guys like Walid Shoebat, Mark A. Gabriel, Joel Richardson, Samy Tenagho, Don RIchardson, Usama Dakdok and others.”

    Stop with the show off and the self flattery, if that is most of what you read, you are found wanting.

  • I guess you can sense that I am upset with you. I intend not to have you think that I am treating you disrespectfully. I am not. I speak bluntly for your own good. When you write: “One of the 5 pillars of Islam is giving alms. Charity and giving to those in need is most certainly a biblical virtue and one which a lot of wealthy Christians often fail in.”

    This is foolishness.

    “The alms are meant only for the poor and the needy and those who are in charge thereof, those whose hearts are to be reconciled; and to free those in bondage, and to help those burdened with debt, and for expenditure in the way of Allah and for the wayfarer. This is an obligation from Allah. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.”

    (Al-Qur’ān – 9:60)

    The verse presents eight different heads of Zakat funds. Be it a collective system of Zakat collection and distribution or an individual himself or herself doing this, one should spend the Zakat money only on the specified accounts.

    The first category of Zakat recipients is of fuqara, those who depend for their sustenance on others. They include orphans, destitute widows, the disabled, unemployed and old. Second, masakeen – those who are in greater distress than the ordinary poor people. They are both self-respecting and poor. Third, ‘those employed to administer them’. Fourth, to provide succour for and to rehabilitate the reverts to Islam. Fifth, to secure the emancipation of slaves or release of the unjustly jailed persons. Sixth, to the debtors who would be pauper if they were to pay off all their debts from their available resources. Such debtors do not include those who incur heavy debts either as a result of their extravagance or their spending on evil purposes. Seventh, fi sabilillah signifies the struggle to establish the Islamic system of life on earth which is Jihad. In other words, it becomes impossible to remove the cyanid. If cyanid enters the punch bowl, you say that we can separate it. I say we can’t. Your premise is false, therefore you are speaking foolishness. Having said this, I hope you wise up because I know at times the wise can heed to correction, but the fool will simply write and write and write even more wasting my time and his. I can suspect that you will continue your writing, but I must say, I have little time to be dealing with worthless debate which the Scripture said to steer away from.

  • you are correct andrea, and to say that Rumi had some good is the same like saying Arius had something good and was close to being Christian. This would be absurd.

    • This is how I feel about the non-Apostolic branches, but I digress. We’re in the middle of watching Turkey do something incredibly stupid. Perhaps Elder (now Saint) Paisios’ prediction will come true.

  • “So if I want to present God’s goodness and his love for us via the cross of Jesus, I have to identify with their *correct* concept that God is one while showing that their *attributes* of God are incorrect (they don’t believe God is love).”

    There *correct concept*?

    O my.

    • Grandmere

      SNAP

      • Woody

        Yes, damn bras

  • We are supportive of each other’s ministries. What makes it sound that we are not is you.

  • Woody

    The problem with “biblically sound”–people all make up their “own” interpretations of what this is and why we have 40,000 churches all believing different things today and why St. Paul said, “to listen to the church…” as there was no NT even compiled until 325 AD at the Council of Nicea; before that the truth was and is today passed down via “word of mouth” and most persons did not even have “bibles” until the invention of the Printing press many centuries later; in the early days most of scripture was held in monasteries….etc. I believe Jesus said “…only the Father knows…” as for the End Times we all have one and that should be our concern…

  • LauraR

    Hi, Getaclue! Just keep praying, it’s working! 😉 Thanks, sweetie.

  • Julie

    It makes you wonder how the Holy Spirit is leading them to Christ Who is Truth and helps us discern truth about others.

    Good Friday…to you.

    • Trevor

      Christ is risen!

      • Indeed, He is risen!

        • Woody

          Missed you-where you ben? Maybe you can answer my question: “I was always taught it was Peter who cut the ear off of the Roman soldier in the Garden where Jesus was praying before he was arrested; in our prayers for Holy Thursday I noticed that we prayed, “…a bystander cut off the ear of the soldier…? What happened to Peter?-it sounds more like the obstreperous Peter ?/

          • Indeed it does, Woody.

            As for me, I’ve been under the weather for the past few weeks. It will pass, but it’s a combination of annoyances hitting me at once, with means I can’t focus too well on anything, so I don’t write when I don’t feel sharp. Still, I monitor you, Walid, Ted, Julie and the gang as much as possible.

          • Woody

            I know; I have been in a depression for several months now; I try not to get discouraged since I just read that the wonderful Saint Mother Theresa of Calcutta said, she was depressed for over 50 years; boy you wouldn’t know it. I still remember she was at a Retreat once and walked past quickly a priest who was holding a phone (he did not know who she was), and he said, “Hey sister. This phone has no dial tone.” She turned and make a fast sign of the cross, and was on her way, saying “it does now.” And yes, amazed he heard the dial tone. I recall when she addressed Congress and got a standing ovation–only Hillary and Bill did not stand or clap.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Have you considered that your depression is seasonal, due to lack of sunlight? Look up Seasonal Affective Disorder – start taking SAM-e, and/or get a Verilux light.

  • susan

    The eyes are the window to the soul. 🙂

  • susan

    Do you remember the old true/false tests? If ANY part of it was untrue, ALL of it is untrue. Thank you Jennifer for your thorough explanation! 🙂

  • Woody

    Yes, like “everyone is entitled to their own beliefs so all are true…”
    what nonsense–truth is “external” which is why Jesus pointed to this fact “Know the truth and the truth shall set you free.”

  • susan

    I’m not sure if his book has a title yet. Theodore has included many excerpts from his(yet unpublished) book in the articles he has written. He also wrote another book called “In the Footsteps of Satan” which was published when he was 16 years old. He’s quite a remarkable young man. 🙂

  • Welcome to what the Romans have had to endure for 500 years. Thankfully, Constantinople’s Apostolic Christians are showing these interlopers the door more and more. They bring nothing but third-rate theological rubbish to the table.

    • Trevor

      But, I’m not a Apostolic Christian, well not in the sense of being a member of the RCC, Coptic, or Orthodox church. Maybe inwardly, then?

      • Most certainly, I would say.

      • Woody

        So far I see theologically you are’ one can join at anytime…Scott and Kimberly Hahn wrote their story in “Rome Sweet Home.” I laughed at many times and was sad at others..so much in love yet she said they were on he verge of divorce….it was tougher on her since she had 4 or 5 Ministers in her family; yet I saw her last year in her 26th year as a Catholic and she said, “I don’t regret one second of it.”

        • Trevor

          I’m trying to figure out what you are saying. Are you suggesting I am actually becoming an Apostolic Christian?

          • Woody

            Well if you mean going back to Apostolic times–no, as none of us can do that’ but believing what the existing Apostolic churches believe and teach today I don’t see you being far off, can’t even name anything…

          • Trevor

            Oh! I gotcha you now.

            I have been reading Clement’s writing and it is fascinating!

            Here’s a part of the resurrection of Christ and how he compares it to the legend of the phoenix.

            “Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands,
            that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phœnix.
            This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution
            draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into
            which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm
            is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then,
            when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing
            these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day,
            flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens
            back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has
            returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed. Do we then deem it any great and wonderful thing for the Maker of all things to raise up again
            those that have piously served Him in the assurance of a good faith, when even by a bird He shows
            us the mightiness of His power to fulfil His promise? For [the Scripture] saith in a certain place,
            “Thou shalt raise me up, and I shall confess unto Thee; and again, “I laid me down, and slept;
            I awaked, because Thou art with me;” and again, Job says, “Thou shalt raise up this flesh of mine,
            which has suffered all these things.”

          • Woody

            Yes, Clement I believe is also revered by the Eastern churches Steve, Rudy etc.

          • Woody

            yes, Clement was 3rd Bishop of Rome after Peter and was Pope when St Ignatius of Antioch renamed Jesus Church to the “Catholic” Church which “stuck” and has been called that ever since..

            Peter with all his “warts’ was a strong leader, the next 2 popes a bit weaker until Clement came along–another strong leader:

            “St. Ignatius was Bishop of Antioch, which today is located in Turkey. Here in Antioch, as we know from the Acts of the Apostles, a flourishing Christian community developed. Its first Bishop was the Apostle Peter — or so tradition claims and it was there that the disciples were
            “for the first time called Christians” (Acts 11:26). Eusebius
            of Caesarea, a fourth-century historian, dedicated an entire chapter of his ChurchHistory to the life and literary works of Ignatius (cf. 3:36).

            Eusebius writes: “The Report says that he [Ignatius]
            was sent from Syria to Rome, and became food for wild beasts on account of his testimony to Christ. And as he made the journey through Asia under the strictest military surveillance” (he called the guards “ten leopards” in his Letter to the Romans, 5:1), “he fortified the parishes in the various cities where he stopped by homilies and exhortations,and warned them above all to be especially on their guard against the heresies (SEE ALL WE HAVE TODAY) that were then beginning to prevail, and exhorted them to hold fast to the
            tradition of the Apostles”.

            The first place Ignatius stopped on the way to his martyrdom
            was the city of Smyrna, where St. Polycarp, a disciple of St. John, was Bishop.
            Here, Ignatius wrote four letters, respectively to the Churches of Ephesus,
            Magnesia, Tralli and Rome. “Having left Smyrna”, Eusebius continues,
            Ignatius reached Troas and “wrote again”: two letters to the Churches
            of Philadelphia and Smyrna, and one to Bishop Polycarp.

            Thus, Eusebius completes the list of his letters, which have
            come down to us from the Church of the first century as a precious treasure. In
            reading these texts one feels the freshness of the faith of the generation which
            had still known the Apostles. In these letters, the ardent love of a saint can
            also be felt.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Trevor, can you explain why so many protestants, many of them pastors, have converted? Please read Steve Ray’s book ‘Crossing the Tiber’ – if you will read it, I will buy it and have it sent to you. Steve was a committed anti-Catholic evangelical that converted and this book is his story – is full of historical references to boot – because he read his way into the Church after reading the Church Fathers.

          • Trevor

            My guess is God is calling us Protestants home.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Wise answer.

  • I would say that he’s certainly found in Dostoevsky, J.R.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis. Harry Potter? Erm, not so much…

  • The Jews are NOT the chosen people. Those who call themselves Jews today, who cling to the Law, threw away their Messiah, though some are coming back slowly. The Jews who maintained loyalty to Christ still exist in the form of Apostolic Christians. Still, God does not forget even those who abandoned Him. Jews of good will will certainly see what they have done, and will come back. Not in the heretical forms like Hebrew Roots or Jews For Jesus, but as true Trinitarian Apostolic Christians.

    • Trevor

      I was reading the other day after my run-in with that clown, who shall go nameless, regarding the Inquisition, and I learned that during the Spanish Inquisition, the Jews who converted to Catholicism to protect themselves had every opportunity to go back to being a Jew refused to do so.

      Unfortunately, when Protestantism became all the rage, it began to infect the Spanish monarchy, and that is when the Spanish monarchy turned against the Vatican, and in turn, went after Catholics.

      Guess who was behind the paranoia? Jealous Jews and new Protestants.

      • Some of the great Spanish Catholic apologists were of Hebrew extraction, including a few of my favorite non-Orthodox saints like John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila. They were able to defeat the rabbis because they saw the truth of Christianity and the false teaching of Judaism.

        • Woody

          I love Teresa of Avila–she reminds me of General Patton who used to pray “Hey. God. Patton here. What the heck is wrong with you, sending my troops weather like this. Don’t you want us to win, or what?’ (this is paraphrased)
          St. Teresa got all dressed up to go to a feast or a wedding or something and she got into her coach. Down the road, the horse bucked and threw her out into the mud. She got up and shook her fish at the Heavens and said, in her mud soaked clothes “Tis no wonder You have such few friends.”

        • Trevor

          I wonder if some of those Jews are from the Saddecues lineage, those who denied the resurrection are true, while the Pharisees do believe in the resurrection.

      • Some things never change.

        • Trevor

          Yeah, what’s that saying? “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”

  • We know this far better than you imagine. Unfortunately, how you are thinking about Israel is something quite different from what Christians thought before the advent of Fundamentalist Christianity, especially when it comes to the Orthodoxy in Jerusalem and the Levant.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Should we consider Caiphas and Judas as ‘special’ people, or the 3,000 that were slain by the Levites? I believe Paul spoke that not all of Israel is Israel.

      • Paul was most deadly clear on this. It’s no wonder why the phony Hebrew Roots movement acolytes hate Paul so much.

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Sometimes I feel overly dismayed by some posts – on one of the recent articles, some gal came in posting that ‘you can sin, it doesn’t matter, Christ paid the price, you just have to believe’, ad nauseam. Could some of these ‘types’ please explain why Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead at Peter’s feet? They were ‘believers’ – right?

          • They can’t. I feel your pain, but if only one wakes up, it’s worth the headache.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You’re so right. Last summer I debated back and forth (posts) with a JW hoping to show him, using scripture,where their theology is all wrong, and doesn’t work, they just default to how they interpret those same scripture passages. The best argument is that historical church never believed any such doctrine – but that offends protestants because it puts them in the same boat with JW’s. One would think the notion of ‘sola scriptura’, which within Protestantism itself has been proven to be false means of arriving at doctrinal truth, would finally be abandoned, yet they still cling to it in spite of its proven failure. Of course, they want to keep their seminaries, colleges, pastors rolling in the money, so it won’t happen except by a miracle from heaven. Using Protestants’ standard of ‘sola scriptura’, how can they fault JW’s for their doctrine? They are just using their own method of interpreting – like they themselves do.

  • Agreed. These people are now called Christians, who sprang up from the teachings of the Jew, Jesus, son of Joseph, whose followers were ethnic Jews. Not the Jews posing as Jews today, who are more than welcome to come home. These denied Christ. Those who did not (remember, all Jews at first), began the great commission of bringing in the Gentiles and did not receive the appellation ‘Christian’ until the year 50 A.D.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The website that you have pulled from has misinformation on it – #1. That Ephraim was not associated with Catholicism and didn’t live in the Roman empire until the end of his life. This is all false. He was born in Nisibus which was under Roman rule. He was Catholic – there was no other Church. S0, what else is false? It’s amazing how protestants will refer to the real church when they think they’ve found something that tickles their fancy and discard the other 99%. We believe that we will be taken away before God’s wrath is poured out – can you explain why Irenaeus states (2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” ? Pseudo-Ephraim does not teach the rapture – read the entire source.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Yhoshua comment:.’True. Contrary to popular belief, Christians
    don’t drink blood or eat babies either. The Catholic church did invent the doctrine of eucharist where wine magically becomes blood when used in communion, BUT THAT BELIEF HAS NO HISTORY IN THE EARLY CHURCH.’ You appear to be one that deceives intentionally. Regarding the Eucharist – they ALL believed, and still do. How many quotes would you like for me to provide you regarding this? Since you have previously used quotes from Irenaeus and Cyprian, one would assume that you were at least fleetingly familiar with their writings – obviously not, you just copied from ‘beginningandend.com’. Our dear Lord has provided 100 miracles in which the wine (and bread) ‘magically’, as you put it, has been transformed into His Flesh and Blood. Shame on you – especially in light of your response to ‘lorasinger’ on another issue – to provide a citation from the first century. Where, may I ask, is yours?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    I wish that you were as familiar with the history of the Church as you claim to be of Islam.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The Bible as canonized by the Catholic Church includes books that your protestants forefathers removed, (which I assume is the ‘Bible’ that you abide by) as though they were God’s mouthpiece. It has been downhill henceforth. Luther, Calvin and Zwingli themselves could not agree on doctrine in spite of their desire to be united lest the ‘papists’ have reason to celebrate – they left their famous meeting in Marburg no longer friends, refusing to shake hands. The Church has remained since day one, in fulfillment of Jesus’ promise.

    • Woody

      Thiis belongs with my treatise on the EWTN “Shroud” of Turin as I was curious on the Lanciano note: (looks like a perfect match in blood type here, also:

      “The Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano is a sign attesting to the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. It calls us to faith, to open our hearts to the gift of the boundless love that Christ offers us in His Real Body and Blood. [no surprise here to Apostolic Christians] John VI is Jesus True to His Word…

      Here we shall add another noteworthy fact. Analysis has shown that the blood found on the Shroud of Turin is also of the AB type, thus matching the blood at Lanciano. Is this not yet another astonishing sign calling us to believe in the
      real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist? Thanks to modern science, the Shroud of Turin has become a relic of unique significance. After the first photograph was taken of it in 1898, scholars of practically every discipline began to study
      it. In the process they discovered to their amazement that the image of the crucified Man represents a perfect negative photograph. Divine Providence preserved this relic to our day, so that modern science might reveal its extraordinary secrets to an unbelieving age. Analysis shows that the linen
      fabric is indeed a burial cloth from Palestine dating from the time of Christ, that it had been used to bind a crucified Man of extraordinary beauty and physical perfection, and that the sentence of death had been carried out on Him in exactly the way it is related in the Gospels. Whoever sincerely seeks the truth and reads the results of the scientific studies conducted on the Shroud is forced to ask himself disturbing and radical questions concerning the person of Christ. Many scientists studying the Shroud have come to believe in Jesus Christ.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        I’m shocked at yhoshua’s blatant lie- I scrolled though some his comments on disqus, he emphatically stated that the Catholic church invented the ‘magic’ of wine changing to blood, that no one in the early church ever believed or taught such – on the other hand, he relies on Irenaeus and Ephraim as teaching pre-trib rapture. Utter nonsense.

        • Woody

          Yes, I see all protestants see Jesus as lying when He is so CLEAR “This “IS” MY BODY; this “IS” MY BLOOD…then again, they have to say this as they have no way to CONSECRATE the Eucharist after they gave away the Priesthood Christ created at the Last Supper; Luther was the last that I know of–I wonder if he continued to say Mass after his heresy??? And I wonder if he married that Nun he fell in love with to get out of the Church (a Lutheran on this site told me that)

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I detest deliberate misinformation, and that is what he has done. Luther did marry an former nun and had six kids. Luther considered that Jesus was there along WITH the bread – but did not consider The Mass a sacrifice. He was just winging it – anything to oppose the Church – that is, until Calvin & Zwingli challenged his doctrines, then he relied on the ‘constant witness’ of the Church – huh?

  • Woody

    Commenter: “Yes, people can make up their mind what makes the
    most sense regarding biblical hermeneutics. But your “solution” to
    simply try to identify the “earliest” beliefs is even more error
    prone, not less. ”

    Woody: “Not really; both Paul and Jesus predicted “heresy” would
    develop in His Church founded on Peter and they warned about it. Simon Magus was one of the first heretics which Peter on his first visit to Rome exposed. The 3000 (first protesters) on John VI (those who walked away for Jesus when He told them of the wonderful Gift of giving us His very Body and Blood; you should note that “Jesus did not run after them saying “Oh, no—you misunderstand me, no—he turned to Peter and the Apostles and asked them “if they wanted to
    leave too?” Peter affirmed their belief in His words with “To whom shall we go?” The other miracles I posted on here also affirm the truth of Jesus Body & Blood:

    — The Shroud of Turin now affirmed at 99.9% being Jesus Shroud by
    medical men an scientists everywhere

    — The Shroud of Lanciano also having Jesus same Blood type of AB
    as the Shroud of Turin

    — Jesus Blessing His Church with 250 “in-corrupt bodies” of His
    Saints” in His One Holy Catholic Church;

    While there are “zero” in any protestant churches…where are
    they?

    Commenter: “Yes, there were heretical beliefs in the church from the
    beginning- just because they are “early” beliefs doesn’t make them
    more credible,

    Woody: Why would you believe someone from 1517 years away from Christ than someone who knew St. John and hung out with him (Clement, Ignatius 3rd Bishop of Antioch [Peter was the 1st before He went to Rome] (both early Church Fathers)

    Yes, there were hereisies as the early Church Fathers recorded
    them as they fell by the wayside and showed the Church exposed and
    excommunicated all like, the Gnostics, Montanists, etc. but it is even more “illogical” for you…To say the early Christian Fathers – those closest to Jesus time are not more believable than Luther etc who shredded the bible of 7 books some of which came from the Septuagint, the same bible Jesus often quoted from—Jesus is God and if the books were FALSE as Luther contended, that makes
    Luther smarter than God which is nonsense.

    Commenter: The view of an Islamic Antichrist is very new, but it has a lot more biblical support than say the Gnostic gospels do.

    Woody: Like the Rapture you make my point it is very new also.

    “Views” are why you have 45,000 man-made churches today versus
    the One Founded by Jesus Himself in Scripture. St. Paul said “…listen to THE CHURCH…” no one ever said “read scripture and make up your own “interpretations” of what each verse means…the One Church founded by Jesus is the only place to find the Truth of Scripture…

    Commenter:
    “There’s a reason Paul championed the Bereans and not the early Jewish believers- the Bereans checked Paul’s claims with scripture (asked “is this biblically sound?”) .

    Woody: Paul said “…listen to THE CHURCH”…To follow Jesus
    and St. Paul in Timothy 3:15 – “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

    Ask any Protestant “what is the “pillar and ground of the truth” and
    they will answer wrongly–“Scripture.” which is basically why the
    brilliant protestant Scott Hahn converted–see his work “Rome Sweet
    Home.”

    Commenter: “First you claim Darby invented the rapture and that
    no older historical records have ever been presented (patently false),”

    This is so well known because it was never mentioned before Dan
    Brown—show me any verse which mentions “a Rapture” before Brown; if it were true, the

    Woody: Apostles would have mentioned or Our Lord God and Savior,,, upgrade your computer skills and one google will get you “Jesus “Know the Truth and the Truth Shall set you free…”

    Commenter: “then you align yourself with Dan Brown’s alternative history of the Bible being put together in 325 AD?!

    Woody: …Never heard of Dan Brown—any educated person knows full well of all the Church Councils and they are as available as WWII and WWI history is—

    But you are one who would read any history book and deny what is
    in it; in that case you are doomed to be fixed in heretical beliefs forever

    Commenter: “It seems you get your history from very unreputable sources.”

    Woody: “Origen wrote over 6000 historical church histories; Ignatius
    of Antioch 7 Extant letters, Eusebius the Father of Early Church history, on and on [see MY SOURCES BELOW]

    RIGHT—“unreputable” –NONSENSE! Here they are (my sources) –
    Yours are 1517 years too late to have any credence: Luther, Calvin, Zwingli,

    And, by the way, “all Protestant founders above believed in the “perpetual Virginity of Mary.”

    · Church Fathers: Didache (the First Bible – 50 AD)

    · Church Fathers: Epistle of Barnabas

    · Church Fathers: Clement of Rome

    · Church Fathers: 2 Clement

    · Church Fathers: The Shepherd of Hermas

    · Church Fathers: Ignatius of Antioch

    · Church Fathers: Polycarp

    · Church Fathers: The Martyrdom of Polycarp

    · Church Fathers: Epistle to Diognetus

    · Church Fathers: Fragments of Papias

    · Church Fathers: Quadratus of Athens

    · Church Fathers: Aristides

    · Church Fathers: Justin Martyr

    · Church Fathers: Claudius Apollinaris

    · Church Fathers: Minucius Felix

    · Church Fathers: Melito of Sardis

    · Church Fathers: Hegesippus

    · Church Fathers: Dionysius of Corinth

    · Church Fathers: Athenagoras of Athens

    · Church Fathers: Irenaeus of Lyons

    · Church Fathers: Rhodon

    · Church Fathers: Theophilus of Caesarea

    · Church Fathers: Theophilus of Antioch

    · Church Fathers: Maximus of Jerusalem

    · Church Fathers: Polycrates of Ephesus

    · Church Fathers: Pantaenus

    · Church Fathers: Clement of Alexandria

    · Church Fathers: Tertullian

    · Church Fathers: Serapion of Antioch

    · Church Fathers: Apollonius

    · Church Fathers: Caius

    · Church Fathers: Hippolytus of Rome

    · Church Fathers: Origen

    Commenter: The council of Nicaea did not compile the Bible- the
    Old Testament had been in existence long before that and the New Testament had been recognized as scripture within the lifetimes of those who wrote it.”

    Woody: “(NOT the OLD TESTAMENT)—the New Testament (handed out rarely since any of the epistles and gospels had to be hand written; not readily available until many centuries later when the printing press was available; Jesus truth was mainly handed out “by word of mouth” or as St. Paul said, by our “traditions.” Mostly
    monasteries had copies of the texts and besides the literacy rate was very low during the early ages…

    Commentator: “Furthermore, the letters of the NT were hand copied in huge quantities and passed around to the churches.

    Woody: More heresy; Christians did not have “churches” as Christianity was “forbidden” by the Romans until Constantine; they wither met in the old Synagogues (early) and then and “Christians were “on the run” hardly having time to sit around and copy scripture…”

    In Caves; Peter could not even reveal where he was (Rome) as the
    Catholic Church (the only Church) had to used the Code Word for Rome—“Babylon” (so the Romans would not know he was in their midst.

    Commenter: “Certainly not every believer had their own personal copy, but churches read them, studied them and taught from them- again, long before Constantine.”

    Commenter: “I would humbly suggest you to do some real research
    before spreading misinformation around so confidently.”

    Here’s a scholarly??????????? article written from the actual
    historical documents taken from the Council of Nicaea:

    Woody: “More Picking andChoosing and why you have 45,000 churches screaming we are “what Jesus taught” (even though they teach different things and we all know (at least educated people that “contradictions” cannot be held at the same time);

    “The NT was “codified”at Nicea under Constantine’s orders: (most
    copies had been burnt by a Roman Emperor)”

    “Political events motivated the church to formalize the canon. The Roman Emperor Diocletian bitterly persecuted the church between 302 and 305 A.D. One of his edicts called for the burning of all Scripture. Christians had to decide which books were worth dying for. Diocletian was so sure he had destroyed all texts and eradicated Christianity he erected a monument inscribed: “The name of Christian
    is extinguished.”

    “Many other efforts were made to discredit and destroy the books that came to be the New Testament canon. Celsus tried by his sagacity to stifle it. Porphyry by means of his deep philosophy endeavored to eradicate it. Lucien with his keen satire tried to destroy it.

    The ancient prophet said it well: “The grass withers, the flower fades: but the word of God shall stand forever” (Isaiah 40:8).

    “As a Roman Emperor had tried to destroy the Scriptures so an emperor, Constantine, was used of the Lord to give occasion
    for it to be CODIFIED! ”

    In 312 A.D. the Emperor Constantine was converted to Christianity [actually he was Catholic in name only until his “deathbed” when he was “Baptized]. (His mom started so many of the First Christian churches in her time [Church of the Holy Sepulcher] ST. HELENA]
    (as well as finding the “True Cross of Jesus”) The following year he ended persecution of the church by declaring Christianity legal in the empire. In 325 A.D. he convened the Council of Nicea out of which came the Nicene Creed, a statement of Christian beliefs based on Scripture.” [affirmed the Catholic Church as the Christian Church of Jesus–again]

  • Woody

    nothing wrong with the original NT; the errors are in “the self interpretations” of the NT which now has 45,000 churches all saying “look at me–we are Jesus Church…or NO No don’t look at them look over here, we are the church of Jesus–pap!

  • Linda Murray

    WHY, oh WHY… does EVERYONE insist on saying the the JEWS are the ‘CHOSEN PEOPLE’…?

    The ‘CHOSEN PEOPLE’ are ALL 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL…*INCLUDING JUDAH*… the Jews…!!!

    It’s just that the Jews & the Benjamites are the ONLY ones left who are identifiable (for the most part) to this day as Jews! But the OTHER 10 tribes who are scattered & unknown to WE HUMANS to day… (God knows who each one fo them is today) are *ALSO* the ‘CHOSEN PEOPLE’!

  • Linda Murray

    “Maybe Jesus Christ was talking about unchangeable laws, like the ten commandments”

    Oh REALLY? See? This right here is ONE reason that much of your doctines fall flat on their faces.

    You *SAY* that the 10 commandments are ‘unchangeable’… yet you snipped out the Shabbat commandment & changed it to sunday!

    “Christ himself did not keep all the laws according to the Pharisees…”

    That’s because MOST of the ‘laws’ of the pharisees were what is called *ORAL* law… or oral Torah. *ORAL* law is NOT God’s law! It is man-made laws… TAKENOT & MA’ASIM… man-made TRADITIONS! THAT is why Jesus was fussing at them.

    Jesus DID keep *ALL* of God’s laws!

    • Julie LaBrecque

      So you don’t believe that Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath, as well as all the other Feasts?

      • Linda Murray

        I don’t know what’s wrong with this forum… but when I try to copy & paste my response to you… all it does is paste my last paragraph… over & over & over & over… again & again. So I won’t be able to answer you until it quits acting up.

      • Linda Murray

        This is STILL not working here… so I’m going to TRY going back to the top to post it & see if it works there. If you don’t see it there… then it didn’t work there, either… which means there’s something wrong with this thread format now.

  • Linda Murray

    Yer just…….. REALLY… in sad, sad spiritual/knowledge shape!…
    Hosea 4:6
    My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    And BTW… Jesus was ONLY sent to gather BACK to Himself the lost 10 tribes who had assimilated & become gentile Israelites…

    Mat 10:5 & 6…
    These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Mat 15:24
    Jesus said, I am sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    And in the end it will include any pagan & heathen gentiles who have joined with the house of Israel (10 tribes) & the house of Judah (Jews) as companions (see OT regarding who & what ‘companions’ are)… & who… along with those two houses, have accepted His Torah/law & NOT rejected it as having been done away with!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Very well said!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Yes, they horribly translate the Bible, add a word here or there (as did Luther). I am so distressed with them, most of them (that I know) try to live holy lives (except they can lie and mistreat infidels, and shun JW’s that leave). What is simply amazing on how the reject the cross, reject that Jesus is God, not another God, and reject the Trinity. Satan sure hates the cross, and he sure hates that Jesus died on one.

  • Trevor

    I have been reading the writings of Clement. 🙂

  • Dmember

    Invictus…Iike I said, I put my trust in the God-man (Jesus), instead of a god-man (pope).

    “It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.” (Psalm 118:8)

    “The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe.” (Proverbs 29:25)

    Your unkind tongue betrays your heart’s trust in a god-man. I invite you to put your trust in Jesus instead, who alone can rid your heart of anger toward others.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      The Church has the authority to bind and to loose, and you will judged accordingly.

  • Nancy, I thank you for your thoughtful answer. However, I will try to give you a different perspective. God says he will take care of his people, Israel, not the Jewish religion. We, as Orthodox Christians, have been in Jerusalem since the beginning. St James was the Patriarch, and we’ve had continuous representation since the beginning. We were Jews. The only reason the name was changed was as an insult from Antiochian Jews, who called those who believed in The Way “Christians,” in order to mock our founder, Jesus. That didn’t work out too well. By the Second Century, even after the destruction of the Second Temple by around 70 A.D., Jews were aligning themselves with Pagan Rome (which has nothing at all to do today with the Roman Catholic Church), and began a campaign of slaughtering Christians throughout the Empire, where it got especially bad in Alexandria. That religious Jews (or secular ones, for that matter) have returned to Israel is of no importance. God will protect ISRAEL. The inhabitants of the land are not all Jewish. There are many native Christians there (and Muslims, to be honest). Israel will never fall, as God has re-established it. It is incumbent on the religious Jew, however, to convert. He will be gnashing his teeth and beating his breast over the grave evil he committed. And he will also be welcomed home. This is their great, eternal hope.

    There is no such thing as supersessionism. This is an ignorant idea Protestants have tried to use to destroy the Church Christ founded. Come to Israel, talk to actual Christians there, not the ones who go for tours. They have quite a different story to tell.

    • Woody

      Always a pleasure to hear from an educated man rather than from the ones who prattle off something their minister has told them (none of whom has read the early Church Fathers and always noticeable they never post SOURCES for their nonsense) e.g, “Constantine founded the Catholic Church…” He was a pagan and an Emperor; and he was Baptized on his death bed; also since the first 30+ popes beginning with Peter were “martyred” – they kind of “pass over” this FACT. (see the Father of Christian Church’s history, Eusebius–4th century historian:of Early Christianity from the 1st century to the 4th century. It was written in Koine Greek, and survives also in Latin, Syriac and Armenian manuscripts.[1]

    • Julie LaBrecque

      What ‘promised land’ do people want – an earthly one, or a heavenly one? Scripture so much as states the even Abraham looked to a heavenly land/city, not an earthly land/city, because here, we have no lasting city.

      • People want the here and now, and don’t truly believe in the Lord’s promise.

        • Julie LaBrecque

          What it amounts to is this: They don’t think that the Church is the Kingdom – they want Jesus on earth to rule, not to rule through the Church; they don’t understand covenants; they don’t understand that Jesus fulfilled the Feasts of the Old Covenant; they don’t understand that Jesus dwells with us bodily through the Eucharist, His Body, The Temple. I laugh at people who are trying to imagine the Temple described in Ezekiel as an earthly reality – this Temple that Ezekiel saw is the Temple of Jesus’ body – the Church.

          • You mailed it. People want comic book Jeezas, not a Lord and Savior, and definitely not His church.

  • Woody

    No the Church was long before the NT which was not even put together until 325 at Nicea, after Constantine, a pagan< ordered the Pope to "get off his butt, and, among other Churchly matters, start to define which texts are legit and which are not; up untll this time the Church was spread by oral history (tradition) and still is along with the Church's….also a "practice" is far different than "dogma."–we have far more than 5 minutes per week, since we meet and have Masses many each morning…while Prots meet only on Sunday services; a Catholic who goes to Mass only on Sunday has heard the Bible 90% each 3 years of his/her life… Only the Church Jesus left us is authorized to place the Faith in truth…"Whatsoever you BIND on earth I will BIND in Heaven; whatsoever you LOOSE on earth I will LOOSE in Heaven." Jesus gave only His Church "Carte Blanche" authortiy….no "self interpretation which as see has led to a unmitigated disaster among the "man-made" churches versus the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic God-Made Church of Jesus…"binding and Loosing under Judaic law was and still is the right to make or change religious laws among the Jews of Jesus time….

  • Julie LaBrecque

    What part do you not agree with? They also added the definite article “a” in front of God in John 1 – and the Word was A god, rather than ‘and the Word was God.” They have more failed prophecies than any group on earth.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Read Isaiah 22 – you might learn something about what Jesus did to Peter by giving him the Keys to the Kingdom – the majordomo, )royal steward) held the Keys and exercised all the authority of the King, and was the FATHER over the house. Peter, not his confession, received power to bind and to loose, and Peter, not his confession, received the Keys. Peter IS the Rock that Jesus was speaking of – that does not mitigate away that Jesus is also Rock: Abraham likewise, was called Rock.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You have novel ideas, even the OT predicted a Feast [provided unto ALL people that would swallow up death in victory, but you as a protestant don’t have this feast. No one taught your false doctrine until Ulrich Zwingli made his novel interpretation.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The Bible states that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth – you and all other people on the earth interpreting the Bible has done nothing but split into 40,00 differing sects with differing doctrines.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    So you omit all the scriptures which say to hold fast to the traditions?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You don’t believe or obey Jesus’ teaching on eating his flesh and drinking his blood – you pick and choose what verses suit your fancy. The WHOLE Church has ALWAYS believed that they bread and wine are changed to His Body and His blood. Please find any Church Father that wrote otherwise.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Then list them.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Explain how a symbol can cause death and judgment.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    If you knew the OT, you would know where this is. Your symbolic communion in no way swallows up death.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    How can an invisible Church teach?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Typical – Paul is your theologian before Jesus.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Your communion is with the elements, not with God. Where, pray tell, are altars in your church buildings?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Sorry, you are sorely wrong. Jesus left a VISIBLE CHURCH with HIS Authority – you have decided to trust yourself to a man-made church that split from THE Church that Christ founded. I trade reading 2,000 yrs of recorded Church History over that of an apostate Catholic priest. Maybe you should consider the following NOTABLE protestant converts who saw the LIGHT: Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, Steve Ray, Al Kresta, Michael Cumbie, Thomas Howard, Alex Jones, Taylor Marshall, Ulf Eichmann – most of them were pastors.

  • Woody

    Like Judas who was “saved.”

  • It is nothing but fertile ground for converts. God’s people, Christians, never left the country.

  • Woody

    Peter little? Hardly; his name is mentioned 195 times in the NT while the next most mentioned apostle is st John – 29 times; put this into a movie where Peter is in 195 scenes and st john 29 scenes–with your logic you would make Peter “the minor character.”
    Watch AD the atheistic Hollywood even gets it right where Peter is shown all though out as the leader of the Apostles = thank You Jesus

  • Delta Rain

    Thank you for another, well-written, insightful look into prophesy.
    Reading the fire and brimstone fight in the comments between Protestant and Catholic leaves a bile taste to this reader. I’m afraid we might distract ourselves with battles of ego so strongly that we might miss our daily nourishment of God’s Word of wisdom and love to guide us through our walk with Christ. Remember that sometimes our pride and anger leads us to be humbled by God, but He always graces us with a blessing during our humbling times. Praise the Lord. Now, I am going to turn off the world for a few hours and focus on God-approved productiveness with love, thankfulness and joy in my soul because today my warrior’s heart is weary and in need of God’s R&R. Have a blessed Day, People.

    • Woody

      Truth is “external” not subjective; which is why Jesus said, “Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.” One of the most important things He said.

  • Woody

    Nothing wrong with Scripture but all the study of it will not prevent “erroneous interpretations.” Which is why we have 45,000 man-made churches today all exclaiming that “they have the right interpretations…” even though they “contradict” themselves which violates the Father of Logic, Aristotle’s first principles “contradictions cannot Both be true at the same time.” Ah, he was and still is so logical. And, this is why St Paul told Timothy to “listen to the Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth.” (3:15) Note he nor anyone else directs one to “scripture” for the truth…since people see what they want to see.

  • It’s articles like yours which show why the rest of the Christian world sees American Christianity as really nothing more than thousands of Gnostic cults who worship both ignorance and the almighty dollar rather than in a Church Jesus Christ established.

    I implore you to actually study the faith you claim as your own, rather than to rely on people peddling books laced with hopeless ignorance.

  • Jandre Kroeze

    Herin lies the problem. This alah is NOT God, therefore this man claiming himself to be alah, is not claiming himself to be the most high of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ismael abandoned his original god for another. Frankly if he stands in Jerusalem claiming himself to be Elohim the Most High, then there would be a problem. Perhaps we should be vigilant on another muslim who is the true secret leader of Da`Esh, Barack Obama aka Barry Sutorro, a sodomite who has no regard for women and is married to Michael a She-Male tranny. Remember King of Kings warned us that many would come in His name/reputation, and leading many astray from the facts? I suggest you also aply this here.

  • Bilderberg Chairman

    He look’s a little Hitler-like. I have heard it said that Hitler had the spirit of antichrist but was not THE antichrist – maybe he was a trial run or something.

  • racarrera

    You answer in friendship and respect. I will do the same. Paul is lamenting over his brethren losing their way and willingly abandoning Christ. One has to look fully into the context of Paul’s statement, not just a cold reading of Scripture.

  • racarrera

    This also might help to clarify the position of the Orthodox Church a bit better: http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith9285