Pope John Paul II: A Freemason Heretic Or Saint. See The Movie And You Decide

By Walid Shoebat(Shoebat Exclusive)

I watched this movie about a Polish man named Karol. When I finished watching it I decided to post it for my readers to see if they also wanted to watch it. I wasn’t sure how to introduce the movie so I went to the comment section to see the first comment perhaps I can get a hint or two about what to write regarding this man named Carol and I found this comment from one named Suppressingfire which said this:

“Karol the Freemason/heretic who became pope. Ever since he kissed the quran and took part in a bunch of heresies, i started to dispise this man. Heretics can NEVER be Catholics nevermind the Holy Father, Pope. Vatican II council is a Masonic/protestant plot to destroy the True Faith, Roman Catholicism. A true pope will try everything to convert other religions/sects to the Catholic faith, but the popes since vatican ii not only don’t try to convert but they take part in other religions/sects/schism and pagan rituals, and commit many heresies.”

But it reminded me of what many who hate me accuse me of things I know are not true. I have seen a photo of Carol kissing a large green book that I searched once and searched with no conclusive evidence that that book was indeed the Quran. But assuming he did, it is not as worse as King David committing adultery and let the one who had never kissed a profane thing cast the first stone. Yet how many has ever read or watched his story. Was Carol a ‘Freemason’ ‘Heretic’ ‘Masonic’ devil or was he a saint is up to you to decide and see whether one dare to slander or simply be fair.

Is that all the man did was to kiss a green book? As a boy, Wojtyła (Carol) during his childhood had contact with Wadowice’s large Jewish community. School football games were often organised between teams of Jews and Catholics, and Wojtyła often played on the Jewish side. “I remember that at least a third of my classmates at elementary school in Wadowice were Jews. At elementary school there were fewer. With some I was on very friendly terms. And what struck me about some of them was their Polish patriotism.” Wojtyła’s first, and possibly only, love affair was with a Jewish girl, Ginka Beer, who was described as “slender”, “a superb actress” and “having stupendous dark eyes and jet black hair”. He struggled through Nazism and Communism and definitely was a lover of Jews. Among the many immediate acts of aggression undertaken by the Nazis was to close the University. Young Karol took a job in 1940 as a stone-cutter at a quarry in Zakrzowek, near Krakow. To understand Karol Wojtyla (John Paul II’s birth name) and his part in the collapse of Communism is to remember this man lived under oppression and tyranny for much of his life. Wojtyla had barely turned 19 when Nazi Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, and the regime forced him into manual labor, first as a quarryman and blaster, and later as a factory worker in a chemical plant. But Wojtyla refused to bow to Nazi propaganda; he joined UNIA, a broad-based armed resistance movement trying to save Jews from the Holocaust. Later, he entered an underground seminary, where Adam Sapieha, archbishop of Krakow, reinforced and guided his thinking about human dignity and freedom.

Yet Soviet “liberation” of occupied Poland brought only further repression. And for 33 years, Wojtyla would promote Christianity and religious freedom under threat of a regime attempting to squash any opposition to atheistic totalitarian rule. On December 1, 1989, Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev visited John Paul II in the Vatican. It marked the extraordinary end to hostilities between Rome and Moscow—and the triumph of Christian faith over Communism.

print
  • Linda Murray

    I’ve heard all that stuff for several years about Freemasonry being in the vatican & the pope being a Freemason… but I tend not to believe it.

    Because when I use to research & study world religions, cults & the occult, Freemasonry was one of the ones I did the most on. Got to know it like the back of my hand. Even got my hands on some of the lodges publications that non members are not suppose to have… like Morals & Dogma, & The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, for instance.

    In all my research & study on them I never found ANY connections between them & the vatican or pope. In fact… all I ever found was that the two were at terrible odds with one another through history.

    I know anything could be possible… but I don’t believe it until I see proof.

    • Hmmm…and then there are accounts of Freemasonry symbols throughout the city of Rome. (article excerpts)
      “To Freemasons groping for mystic enlightenment in the 1800’s the obelisk was the only architectural symbol of Osiris still in existence. And if, as some Masonic historians claim, Hiram Abiff is really Osiris reborn there could be no greater proof of Masonic ascendancy in the modern world than Egyptian Obelisks thrust by masons into the heart of the West’s great cities. These would also symbolize Boaz and Jachim, the twin pillars which masons claim were built in front of Solomon’s temple, in imitation of two obelisks at the entrance of Egyptian temples…

      In front of the Vatican stands the very same obelisk that once stood in Egypt. Ralph Woodrow explains: “The very same obelisk that once stood at the ancient temple which was the centre of Egyptian paganism, now stands before the mother church of Romanism! Rome has more obelisks than any other city. (Rome is the obelisk capital of the world.)

      Source: http://www.christian-restoration.com/fmasonry/obelisks.htm

      • Tom_mcewen

        Cause and effect, what existed first the symbols or freemasons? The Obelisk is older then freemasons, so the association existed before? or was the association placed later? Sounds like a revision of history. Seems like a misuse of cause and effect to push a personal agenda to assign the cause to get the desired effect.

        • Grandmere

          I don’t care what he says. I still think it is a symbol of Pinnochio worship.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Maybe this it in Washington, DC!
        “But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead joins battle with you, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it into your power, put every male in it to the sword; but the women and children and livestock and anything else in the city-all its spoil– you may take as plunder for yourselves, and you may enjoy this spoil of your enemies, which the Lord, your God, has given you.” Deut 20:12-14
        The obelisk in St. Peter’s square formerly resided in Nero’ circus, where many CHRISTIANS were slaughtered: It is a sign of triumph over them.

        • Grandmere

          Oh, Julie! That little mousetrap in your head just snapped shut!

        • Quote: “The obelisk in St. Peter’s square formerly resided in Nero’ circus, where many CHRISTIANS were slaughtered: It is a sign of triumph over them.”

          Hi Julie, here is info from that same article regarding the right thing to do with pagan symbols; They were to be completely destroyed.

          “This is a sample of scripture relating to sacred pillars – sometimes translated as obelisks…

          You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their sacred pillars.
          (Exodus 23:24)

          But you shall destroy their altars,break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (Exodus 34:13)

          You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow
          down to it; for I am the Lord your God. (Leviticus 26:1)

          But thus you shall deal with them:you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars. (Deut 7:5)

          And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from
          that place. (Deut 12: 3-4) “

          • Julie

            Sounds like 1800’s American Restorationists….far removed from the Early Church.

            What makes you think these cults are verifiable…they have lost so much, thinking there was no church until them…1800 years later…

            What kind of Christ would establish his church then leave it to the wind…for so long….great loss of documented history here…

        • susan

          Excellent!

        • j7hancock

          That’s right!

      • Pero Ercegovac

        You seem to neglect the fact that Rome is the capital of Italy and the founder of modern Italy was Garibaldi who was a freemason. Many of the modern buildings came from the two periods when Masonry ran that part of Italy. Firstly, during the Napoleonic era (The French Revolution was a child of the Oirental Lodge of Paris as all her leaders came from it hence the reason they slaughtered some 15,000 priests and sisters throughout the revolutionary years), secondly from the first Italian Govt of Unified Revolutionary Italy of 1961 onwards where 70% of the MPs were Masons. They were in fact at constant loggerheads with the Vatican until the Vatican became an independent state. Most government buildings had nothing to do with the Vatican but successive non-Vaticans rulers from the aforementioned periods. The obelisk was placed there by the Italian Govt. The Vatican starts at the gates not where the obelisk stands. It was a message to the then Pope that the battle would go on between the masons and Catholics to the end of time. So next time you accuse us of something get your history book out and be prepared..

        • Hi Pero, please re-read the post that I submitted. It does not “accuse” of anything; merely states that Rome has more obelisks than any other city. That is fact. Washington DC also has the obelisk and the city is supposedly designed with Freemasonry symbols. That is not accusing the founders of being Freemasons. 🙂

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Sorry Mike, but you are accusing the RCC in a very sleight of hand way. I am simply calling you up on it. No one is angry here. I am just defending the Church against hidden or open accusations. Did you read my comment about the history of the fight between the Vatican and the Masons in Italy? Simply put the nationalist movement that led to the reunification of the peninsula was a Masonic movement. It was fighting from day one for a secular state which was very hard to achieve considering the then religiosity of Italy. The public debates between Catholics and Masons from the mid-19th century through to the emergence of John XXIII were bitter with one side being totally dedicated to the Magisterium, whilst the other used various political ideologies to destroy Her influence. The fact that obelisks were part of Roman culturo-political manifestations prior to Christianity and Rome was officially pagan from 753 BC (when she was founded by Romulus and Rimulus) through to Constantine is the reason it has so many obelisks. Here is a question for Protestants why does then America, which was founded by Protestants have so many obelisks? I mean what is their excuse since they were founded during Christian times and never lived as a state for 1000 years as a Pagan entity? Perhaps the fact that George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were Masons may have something to do with it. As well as the fact that seven of the original co-signers of the Declaration of Independence were openly Masons, with others keeping their identities secret to their graves. Once they die Masons btw come out of the closet in a unique way. Their graves are only allowed to hold their full name and years of birth and death. Nothing else. No titles or cute little rhymes that some up their life. The fact is Masonry was formed in Britain by Protestants and from its beginnings it had a goal of diminishing the power Catholicism throughout Europe and beyond. So it always amuses me when Protestants accuse the Vatican of being Masonic, especially considering up until very recently being a Mason got one excommunicated from the Church if the membership came to public view.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I might add, we are FORBIDDEN to belong to the Masons, or any other similar type organization. I have yet to see or hear of any protestant church forbidding their members to belong, most Masons ARE Christians.

          • You may find that Mormons claim to be “Christians”, but that doesn’t mean that they are when it comes to defining a true follower of the New Testament Jesus Christ. Same with Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. They claim to believe in “Jesus” but they are following a false Christ. So, when Masons claim to be “Christians”…
            (Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22)

          • Julie LaBrecque

            What if I told you that a pastor of a major denomination was a Mason? Modern Western Christians seem to be drawn to churches where the ‘pastors’, leaders, whatever they call them, just have a happy upbeat ‘service’, and never tell their congregants what they shouldn’t be doing and why. I guess it stems from this zeal for ‘freedom’ where everybody makes their own rules. Who decides if in-vitro fertilization is OK, or using surrogate mothers to have children, or artificial birth control? No leadership making the tough calls lest their congregation/salary decrease/disappear..

          • Freemasonry is not “Christianity”. Thus, if that pastor of a major denomination belongs to the Freemason organization it is most likely that his faith is not 100% upon the New Testament teachings of Jesus Christ and he would not divulge to his congregants the initiation rites that he has to go through in order to believe in and reach the highest “degree” in that organization.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Maybe they have no true pastors over the flocks.

          • susan

            Interesting that surrogate mothers……. Reminds me of Abraham and Sara.

          • Julie

            So what! You are following alot of WND stories that don’t hold up.

            Instead if you want to find out what we truly believe then get yourself a Catechism..and for perspective’s sake, start with the Prologue. Hopefully it can direct you to objective documentary instead of sensationalism…sounds like the stuff that comes from the so-called ‘history channel’….they make all sorts of gnostic claims..false knowledge, hidden knowledge, the first heresies dealt with in the Church.

            Don’t spend your time and your brain on such materials.

          • Yes, Julie, I have found out what the Catechism teaches, in particular the belief that Catholics and Muslims worship the same deity. Here, for example:

            841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The
            plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the
            last day.”[330]

            Consider that in Catechism 841 the key phrase is this, “…TOGETHER WITH US they adore the ONE,merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (caps, mine)

            The point being that the “one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” that Muslims believe in is NOT the “one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” that the Holy Bible teaches in the Judeo-Christian faith.

            The teaching in the Qur’an begins with, “In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Master of the
            Day of Judgment…” (Sounds similar, right?)

            The only way that Catechism 841 would be correct is if Muslims are in-fact worshipping the same exact deity (God) as “THE ONE, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” that Catholics are worshipping. (caps,mine)

            This is the context of how the RCC defines that deity and Catechism 841 definitely indicates that the Muslims and Catholics share the same God.

            So, Julie, Do you really believe that Allah of the Qur’an is Yahweh of the Holy Bible?

          • Julie

            You are putting out a false equation….Both believe in one creator and the day of judgement..and that Mohammed copied from Catholicism….and you are also bypassing the promise given to Hagar and her descendents that they would be plentiful….

            But that is all. This is all surface between the two…but Islam is a literalist belief system with only 1 million out of its billion who are moderate and reasonable.

            So you have to find some common footing…even if it means in the most simple, face value term…one Creator and final judgment.

            Understand now?

            Likewise the Vatican also says very clearly dialogue is just about impossible with Islam…you haven’t read that part.

            You have this gross misconception of Catholicism.

            Just this am I was speaking with a Korean American woman who tells me she suffers so much because of the so called attitudes and false convictions protestants have of Catholics…and it isn’t the Lutherans or Anglicans…but the splinter groups.

            I am already in processing of putting out misconceptions and the proper answers for Catholics….as they suffer alot by what people think about us..even that we are not even Christian…when our practices are 2000 years old.

          • Julie

            Again…you are surface…..The Church states it self it is very difficult if impossible to dialogue with Muslims…we are speaking literally…One God, the God of Final Judgmetn…and that is where it ends….and there are those Muslims who want peace and are not violent either and don’t like the behaviors of those Muslims who do evil…to these the Church addresses those words.

            Again, you are misinterpreting….100% of the time according to your misconceptions.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Yes, you are right on this Mike. However that was the Catechism that was written under JPII whose goal was one Church. However we have an older one that is some 500 years old and most Catholics look to that one and it clearly states that Islam is not from our Creator. I stick to the original one.

          • Julie

            I didn’t have time…but you are providing one piece out of the catechism….and again, it is most basic and simple…that we both adore One God as Creator and Final Judge…but you are, like the Mormons who use CCC 460 ‘to prove the Catholics believe we become gods…’…and don’t read all the statements of faith leading up to CCC460,

            You likewise are also grossly omitting the rest of the entire catechism on God that gives you the context of our faith in God…where the Muslims greatly go off in a different direction.

            In CCC1….Number One, that contradicts Islam, God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and at every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent His Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son, and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

            So essentially, following the very first statement of the Catholic Catechism,…this directive is already happening when the Church reaches out to the scattered Muslim people, setting up dialogue and speaking against violence and freedom of religion, to eventually enter into the Church through Jesus Christ.

            Just in explaining Who God is…takes 1063 statements of faith, One thousand, sixty three statements to essentially define Who God is….and it also contradicts what Islam says beyond One True God and Final Judgement…much different.

            so no….your claim is false and does not stand up to the deposit of faith in Jesus Christ defined fully by His Church.

          • Benedict XVI Says Muslims Worship the Same God

          • Julie

            Again…refer back to CCC1.

            The pope is merely attempting to find common ground for dialogue.

            The Church is working to bring all to God through Christ.

            If I were you, I would study the catechism because Pope Benedict was the former head of the Congregation of Faith that oversees orthodoxy. You are taking his words totally out of comtext and not understanding this mode of evangelization.

            To think he would disagree with the new catechism of which he helped put together is part of the problems we see with American non denominationals….

            Our pastor said such have lost so much to entirely of their Christian roots it is most difficult for them to understand anything of universal Christianity.

          • Quote: “The pope is merely attempting to find common ground for dialogue.”
            Julie, perhaps you are not aware that Islam denies that Jesus is the Son of God. Muslims do not believe in the Triune Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Trinity) and do not believe that Christ was crucified at all nor that He is the Saviour of mankind. Walid has stated how Islam is a religion of antichrist.
            So, for the pope to merely attempt to find “common ground for dialogue” with the spirit of antichrist is rather naïve and not going to get the results that you may think he is after.

          • Julie

            I already showed you CCC1. I already quoted you that the Vatican says it is most difficult if not impossible to dialogue with Islam.

            We already believe what you believe…and it is already stated in the founding CCC1.

            Again, how many times….the Church is attempting to fulfill CCC1 by establishing some common ground the only essential we can begin with is that we both believe in One God and Final Judgment.

            You are projecting some kind of perception onto the Church.

            I have read many documents by P Benedict and he was the one to uphold the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church in its entirety….

            The Church cannot teach anything contrary to the doctrine of faith found in the catechism.

            You cannot skip over 800 doctrines of faith to use the one you gave because it is without context.

            Catholicism is context, context, context, context….Context!

            So many Christians whose partial construct of their beliefs that are anti Catholic…a waste of time and looking at men instead of Christ in their ‘deposit of beliefs’….refuse to look at what we truly believe. That is sinful to me. And it is working out of a false anti Christ spirit…because Christ lives in us…and what false Christianity imposes on us is also imposing itself on Christ.

            JPII said we are living in the time of the Anti Church and the Anti Christ…and it comes in many, many forms.

            So again for the umpteenth time…best you take out the CCC and go from the prologue to our belief in God and how we believe in Him…and of which we cannot denounce or ever will and out of this compassionate God of which we are compelled by the Holy Spirit to bear to all the world who do not know Christ….then you go to the next part and see our approach to Scripture….not as a book….we are not people of the book…but we are people of the Living Word of God…Salvation History…a gathering of people centered on God….we have all the same sins as the ancient Jews of Israel because we are sinners, and we trust in Christ’s mercy.

            Merry Christmas….the true one that fulfills the Jewish calendar as well….not the pagan one you think we believe in…….

            Look at Christmas Mass in Rome, listen to the English and see if you hear anything that is anti Christ.

          • Julie

            I won’t be responding to any more of your comments….I have directed you to find the truth of my faith and you are free to read all sorts of sensationalist false info…it is all out there for you to read.

          • j7hancock

            Mike, I was trying to respond to you, but for some reason even though I hit your name, something happened and it went to Julie. I hope you’ll look and see what I wrote.

          • Julie

            Seek the truth, pray to the Lord for your deliverance from such obsessions….

          • j7hancock

            Mike, I understand where you’re coming from because I myself am a Protestant. But I have to say that I agree with Julie on this one. Seek the Lord and ask him to show you. You have a lot of the typical Protestant misunderstandings of what Catholics believe. I think you mean well, but you’re really missing some points Julie is trying to make. For the most part, I agree that we can’t compromise with Muslims and say our God is the same. Many Muslims also believe we don’t have the same god. But I grew up in a Muslim country, and you might be surprised that many Muslims really do believe that we worship the same god. And if you want to be witness to them for Christ, you’ll be shooting your chances down the Tubes to try to tell them we don’t worship the same god. Initially, you don’t start off by telling them that. Later on, when you’ve had a chance to build a friendship and share your faith and build up your position on your faith and they’ve been receptive and show true interest in learning more, there comes a time when you can share about their God being different. We witnessed this ourselves while living in Turkey and making friends with the Turks who were interested in our country and our faith. We waited to share with them about our Gods being different, and it was much more beneficial to do so. If you start off telling them, “no our God is different”, it tends to turn them right off, and you lose them. There will be exceptions to this, depending on circumstances, of course.

          • Hi j7hancock,
            Thank you for your comments. I do pray for the Muslim people who are very indoctrinated and deceived in the theology that was “revealed” to Muhammad. Please, if you have a chance, see the information on my website at http://www.Starman3000.com
            this is a short-easy-to-read treatise that analyzes and compares Islam to the Judeo-Christian faith. This has been posted on the Internet since 2004 and is being viewed by people throughout the world. For whatever reason, the country where most readership of the site is coming from the Russian Federation. Yes, I understand the approach toward Muslims and it takes much prayer and discernment led by the Holy Spirit of God to break through to the Muslims who have been indoctrinated to believe that their mission is to convert you to their faith of Islam. Thanks again for your comments. 🙂

          • j7hancock

            That would be the later Catechism, then. And there are many Catholics who stick to the earlier one rather than this one, which is what I was encouraged to do by my Catholic friends. But I will say this, many Christians didn’t fully understand Islam or its teachings then. Only those ones who were forced to be confronted directly by it. And even all of them didn’t study the Muslim faith, they just refused it. I can’t speak for the men who wrote that catechism, all I can say is that they just may have been ignorant and truly believed dialogue was possibly. Islam was still a fairly new religion on the scene at that time, in 841. I’m very familiar with Islam from growing up in a Muslim country. And I still have a Queen of my own that I regularly refer back to when discussing it. I just think we shouldn’t be too quick to accuse another church of wrong-doing until we have all the facts in for certain. The foolish mindset of westerners is that we tend to err on the side of “let’s give peace a chance” way too much. We forget the parts of Scripture that caution us to be as wise as serpents. We wrongly believe that we’re being unfair and discriminatory in bad ways. The first approach usually should be one of peace, yes, but when our enemy makes his intentions known to not be peaceful, it’s stupidity to continue on looking for peace where it won’t be found. And many in both churches have been guilty of this over the years.

          • Thank you, j7hancock, for your honest and cordial reply. Yes, western societies need to be skeptical when Muslim apologists claim that theirs is a “religion of peace” and that Muslims worship the same “God”. As we see now, many American and European politicians, news media and clergy have sure been misled into believing that Islam means “peace”. Meanwhile, here are some quotes from Muslim spokesmen that expose their real agenda and yet our leaders look the other way and don’t take this seriously:

            CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) Spokesperson, Ibrahim Hooper, National Communications Chairman for CAIR said to the Minneapolis Star Tribute on April 4, 1993. “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be
            Islamic sometime in the future. …But I’m not going to do anything violent to promote that. I’m going to do it through education.”
            ————————————–

            Omar Ahmad, 5/16/2004, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) – “Islam isn’t in America
            to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.” ttp://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6473
            —————————————————————
            Herman Mustafa Carroll, Director, CAIR Dallas-Fort Worth:
            According to the leader of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Muslims living in America should not be bound by U.S. law. “If we are practicing Muslims, we are above the law of the land,” said Herman Mustafa Carroll, executive director of the Dallas-Fort Worth CAIR branch. The rally in
            Austin was part of a nationwide effort to hold “Muslim Capitol Day” events. [The rally was held Jan. 31, 2013 ]

            – See more at: http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/we-are-above-the-law-of-the-land/

          • j7hancock

            Yes, all those I’ve heard. It’s amazing, isn’t it, how stupid people can be? Willful ignorance will be no excuse for them on judgment day.

          • Then we have Sir Winston Churchill who had this to say about Islam:
            “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
            Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
            The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce,
            and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

            A degraded sensualist deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity.
            The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child,
            a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

            Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
            No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.
            It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity
            is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of
            modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome …….”

            Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol II, pages 248-250 London).

            Churchill knew it before anyone else…

          • j7hancock

            Yes, he was a rare voice in some ways. Tolkien was another one who warned about what he feared Islam might do in a future time. He and C.S. Lewis also discussed it a few times.

          • Then, we have Sir Winston Churchill who had this to say about Islam a long time ago and most of our current political leaders, media and clergy just don’t get it!
            “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
            Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
            The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce,
            and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

            A degraded sensualist deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity.
            The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child,
            a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

            Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
            No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.
            It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity
            is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of
            modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome …….”

            Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol II, pages 248-250 London).

            Churchill knew it before anyone else…

          • Julie

            Thank you j7hancock.

            The Muslims there are descendants of Orthodox Christians, their ancestors baptized in the Lord, Islam only there for 500 years…

            They do not have the same extremism as other Muslim nations…

          • j7hancock

            Mike, there are a lot of ignorant Protestants who also believe Muslims worship the same God as Christians do. And in Arabic, Allah is the word for god, so even Arab Christians call God Allah. But that doesn’t mean that they worship the same God. And even the Arab Christians know that the Allah of Muslims is not the same god of the Christians.

          • j7hancock

            Mike, I don’t know where you got that, but Catholics and Muslims most certainly do not believe in the same deity, and it does not say that in the catechism.

          • 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The
            plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the
            last day.”[330]

            Consider that in Catechism 841 the key phrase is this, “…TOGETHER WITH US they adore the ONE, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (caps, mine)

            The point being that the “one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” that Muslims believe in is NOT the “one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” that the Holy Bible teaches in the Judeo-Christian faith.

            The teaching in the Qur’an begins with, “In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Master of the Day of Judgment…” (Sounds similar, right?)

            The only way that Catechism 841 would be correct is if Muslims are in-fact worshipping the same exact deity (God) as “THE ONE, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” that Catholics are worshipping. (caps, mine)

            This is the context of how the RCC defines that “deity” and it certainly appears that Catechism 841 definitely indicates that the Muslims and Catholics share the same God.

          • Julie

            You are playing along like Mormons. You are truly displayling a lack of personal honesty as well as lack of scholarship as Catholics have long held the dual relationship of faith and reason, which the Muslims do not believe in.

            Mormon prosletyzers ignore all the CCC’s leading up to 460 and likewise ignore the accompanying footnotes that we become adopted heirs of God with our baptism…not to become gods in ourselves as Mormons believe…but through the Word and Eucharist in our growth in Christ…and revealed in how we serve others in Christ.

            You don’t realize the offense you give when you deliberately refuse to read the 840 statements of doctrine that reveal the Catholic concept of God.

            Such factured statements wound the calling by Christ to be one, holy, apostolic and universal…Christ dying for all so we can be saved and redeemed in God through Him…

            Non Christians note the divisions within Christianity and it is our greatest stumbling block for national unity.

          • World Nut Daily isn’t exactly a source worthy of much reading. It’s political schlock. A few decent article, but the rest is either hyperventilating rubbish or ads for baseball hats which state, “Wear this to drive Obama nuts.” There are far more grown-up websites to read now. Here being a pretty good one, for starters.

          • Julie

            So true….but as you can see here…people do not realize they have been feeding on unsubstantiated information, and sensationalized at that.

            I have been looking on web and see a number of articles upholding JPII’s ban on joining Freemasonry and lately P Francis has stated publicly it is very worrisome for him as well.

            But I would not be surprised if there are those in high levels in the Church hierarchy who could be members.

            If people would consult what the Catholic Church teaches as well as its popes, they would not be causing hurt the way they do.

            BTW, I finished my course on the papacy at the seminary and I personally asked the abbot about what happened with the bad popes…and he said they could not teach anything on faith or morals….left no legacy because the Holy Spirit did not move in them because of their sinful lives….

            Think of Peter when Christ appointed him as head…moments later Christ called him satan…..so anyone in any hierarchical office can go either way…follow Christ …or follow the opinion of men…

            And I see alot of the sources they use are opinions of men, not those in the Holy Spirit.

          • It’s somewhere between laughable and painful to read these posts some days, Julie. But, we all need to give charity to these sorts, especially during Advent and the Nativity.

          • Julie

            So true….disconnect…But they should be addressed as to what they use for their sources.

            The Vatican website can provide them any document either verifying or disproving such claims.

            We are talking in our local church about the need for our bishops to begin addressing this problem as it is always the Latin Church they go after, ignorant of the Orthodox and some how have no sense in how it hurts….like I said to others, a woman began crying to me after Mass this Sunday about all the terrible things said about Catholics….especially those who come here from foreign countries…

            The American Catholic bigotry is mainly sourced from English speaking people, and the most ignorant claims come out of our country.

            It is beginning to be time we confront and many lay are coming into the throe….but I do not tolerate too much and have to pull out for the cause of charity….it is too much right now and I am avoiding anything dealing with such for Our Lord’s Nativity…in this most sacred time.

            God bless and may you and yours have a Blessed and Holy Christmas!

          • As the dolts learn about Orthodoxy, they’re having a conniption and trying to use the same tactics against us. We’re far more battled-hardened, thankfully, and will show this rabble the door forcefully.

          • Julie

            Well..I need to draw up the documents for them to look at instead of saying anything to them.

          • Good point, Julie. Perhaps this website needs an F.A.Q. to spell out what we believe in general.

          • That’s true, Julie. All of the rubbish spouted by the usual sources here come precisely from England, who also have a hatred for intellectualism. Though they have given the world a few very good intellectuals, they have also peddled anti-Catholic trash which borders on pornographic. The level of scholarship they offer is beyond dismal, yet, like the tinfoil hat brigade which haunts websites from the extreme left and right in political discourse, they will believe any prejudice thrown at them like spoiled meat for a dog. The only reason I don’t find this site to be a waste of time (apart from the Shoebats being rather fine people and about the be conversationalists one can run into these days) is that there are sane people here, and that minds have been changed. That makes putting up with the handful of flakes who show up here tolerable.

          • j7hancock

            Julie, unfortunately you are right. There have been bad men in the history of both our churches. St. Paul warned there would be wolves in sheep’s clothing in the church. We’re to watch for them diligently. And not to rub any salt in any wounds, but some of the men who broke with Catholicism hundreds of years ago did so because of their experiences with a few such men. Some, not all. But we Protestants have taken such a position of enmity and vilification of the Catholic church that is so shameful and not at honoring to Christ. I don’t know how long it will be before they see that, but I’m truly praying. And my family and I have been trying fervently and patiently to encourage our fellow Protestants to re – think their position on Catholics and to try to help them see the errors we’ve held in our views of your church. I’ll be honest, it seems like many Catholics have many wrong views about what Protestants believe too, but that’s more understandable because we Protestants have so many different types of churches, that even we don’t all agree with each other. Sad. But know, my friend, that you are loved and supported by some of us. I hope you don’t mind my jumping into your conversation. I also wanted to tell you that I appreciate your gracious tone. You have a sweet spirit that radiates the love of Christ that you so obviously have inside you. I enjoy reading what you say quite often.

          • Julie

            Thanks…again. I work on Catholic Answers…and there are alot of discussions on Lutheranism and its branches. I tried to relay back to my Lutheran brethren in how I was understanding their concept of consubstantiation…but they told me I still didn’t understand it correctly.

            We have many come on the non Catholic forum…and are aware of the many sub divisions.

            But we can sense right away when someone is coming in with flames and I try to stop them in their path with questions…I remember one stepped out and returned about 2 months later.

            Or they come in with new names.

            But we don’t tolerate any lack of charity towards others…by non Catholics or Catholics themselves…we have a number of banned Catholics on there.

          • j7hancock

            I love Catholic answers! I think that’s a great forum. So glad to know that you are a part of that. We have people in both our churches that are not really motivated by the Holy Spirit, sad to say. In the end God will weed them out. I have referred to your site before for answers to things that really helped me understand the Catholic faith and gave me a love for Catholics. A good Catholic friend of mine referred me, and I have really enjoyed it. I’m Anglican and deeply grieved over the state of our church. I go to Anglican/Episcopalian churches that have removed from Canterbury, but they are harder to find. It has been a while now that I have been studying the Catholic faith and am looking at Orthodox too. I know I will need to find another church home before too long. I’m not a Baptist fan, but I’m now attending a very good and godly Baptist church, but I don’t sense a calling to become one at all. So, I may join ranks with the RCC before too long. I’m seeking the Lord diligently about it, and praying for guidance as I do. God bless your efforts on Catholic answers and in your schooling.

          • Julie

            Good for you….As far as Orthodox/Catholic go….1,000 years ago we were of one faith.

            I had to use the Sunday Visitor that put into bullets the differences between the two…..and it greatly helped. They have their own jurisdictions, etc. If a priest is being called, he can join the Orthodox for marriage. The Latin rite will never bring back marriage Latin priests. But we have Anglican priests who have come into the fullness of the faith.

            I think you may also like http://www.calledtocommunion.com. Many here are former ministers, mostly in Calvinist tradition, and came to the Church by studying history.

            Many say when they finally become Catholic, they are finally home.

            It is the Church that set up rites…baptism brings us into the Mystical Body of Christ and in the most extreme perspective, when you receive a Trinitarian baptism you are essentially baptized into the Universal Church. May be that is why people feel they are finally back home.

            When you experience Christ in the liturgy, and take a class with an instructor….better than reading a book..it opens up a new world…the Mass is celebrated in eternal time, not linear time and space…and you draw directly on the saving and redeeming Passion of Our Lord Who ministers to us from heaven…it is all mystical…and one day I went to Sunday Mass, saw others I know…they were standing at the Gospel….and it was like the whole congregation was being carried forward, moving forward in the Holy Spirit together as Church to be united with the Heavenly Father through Christ, the Lamb of God.

            The key to understanding Revelations is the Perpetual Sacrifice, foretold by Melchizedek who brought forward gifts of bread and wine, and not bloody sacrifice…to the Daily Mass, perpetually said on earth until the end of this world where we then await the New Jerusalem.

            You can do a search and read how the Mass was said, by St. Justin the Martyr, written in about 154 AD, reflecting the uniformity of faith and worship throughout the entire Christian world at that time…he wrote about it to the Emperor of Rome, what happens at Mass.

            The Mass then, its parts and tone and spirit, are the same today. Only more parts were added…Psalms added between Old and New Testaments and the priest proclaims the Gospel….when we attend Mass, we are in God’s time, and we are like re witnessing again the faith of the Old Testament, their trials and failures to the early Christians in the New Testament and we hear about the testimony to the Scriptures many times at Daily Mass in regards to the lives of the saints.

            All the saints have different charisms, different times, and stories….but they all bear the one same fruit, Jesus Christ.

          • j7hancock

            We do too, in the Anglican churches that are staying true to Christ. But so many have become apostate, selling their souls for political correctness. It’s a point of real grief to me. But at some point, you shake the dust off your feet and you move on. I’ve also heard of the site called to communion. I’ll check it out, as I have not done so yet.

          • Grandmere

            At last! You and I have “outed” ourselves. Hope we don’t get stoned by both sides. Good luck and God bless.

          • j7hancock

            Lol! If we do, oh well. Maybe God will deflect the stones. If not, we’ll be with Him shortly, so it won’t matter…not to be morbid.
            ; )

          • Grandmere

            I love Catholic Answers and EWTN. I am Anglo Catholic so please be kind to me as I stick up for you to the max.

          • Julie

            God bless you! Hopefully the Anglican Church will be totally reunited soon.

            I was watching a Mass..and something about it started to catch my interest….there was something different there although so much looked like Latin…found out it was Anglican.

            Anglican priests who come into full communion, who are married, then realize in ministry how much is expected of the Latin priests….very hard…I think on spouses…..Latin priests work essentially 24/7…and when the day is done, they want to be left alone and crash..in the Lord.

          • Grandmere

            The RCC has an ordinariate for Anglican parishes who enter. This allows the beautiful Anglican liturgy as well as the traditional altar rail. We just feel the intense desire to receive the Eucharist on our knees. The Anglican Church in North America has been through some very deep waters. I was telling Pero that I believe there is a nuclear fusion about to happen with The RCC.

          • Julie

            Yes….It was traditional…on television….and I was beginning to wonder….but then there was something I could not define … something in it that was not completely right….and so now….that many Anglicans are coming in….I hope….we go back to receiving the Lord on our knees…it is an old custom and people stood in past times….as well as many not receiving but once a year as well..

            Before Cardinal Wuerl left for Rome awhile back, he spoke of the tsunami hitting the Church and leading many astray…and how he wanted to work for the reform of our liturgy to make it an authentic renewal…

            P Francis has placed a ‘conservative’ who is not Italian, now in church of the Congregation of the Liturgy.

            Our new bishop told every one he loves the high Mass and is working to restore it as well as seeking a new head of liturgy that will renew the sacred traditions of worship.

            I look at this country of ours and the world…I want to read more P Francis first encyclical he wrote with P Benedict and the last part, ‘the city of God’…

            It is getting so bad that I want to turn more and live within the Church as my ‘city’, ‘my country’, and work on the inner sanctity of our people….focused on renewed respect for the Liturgy and especially the Eucharist, and purity of faith…so our beliefs will shine out much more….and at the same time, work to invite people to our worship, and study our faith…

            I already told my pastor I want to go out into the neighborhoods to reach out to the working class poor families through works of mercy…one step at a time…so I am already ‘fading’ from the Forum….and here….

            We pray for a great renewal of faith in America…because all else is dying….

          • Grandmere

            When my parish priest, then bishop was recently invested as Archbishop of the Anglican Church in North America ( US, Canada and Mexico) He knocked on the door of the church with a crozier given to him by the bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in Atlanta. He was given the Papal kiss by retired Archbishop Greg Venables of Argentina, a long time friend of Pope Francis. We are closer than you think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrknfbIDPPs

          • Julie

            It is coming….now we must also pray for the Orthodox and the Lutherans…

          • Julie

            Thank you for your kindness.

            Only the truth will set us free and make us one…God has no favorites…we are to pick up our cross and follow Him and remain in Him until He is there before us at death.

          • j7hancock

            Amen to that!

          • Pero Ercegovac

            And you know what the problem with baseball caps are, man? They cover your nose but your ears still get burnt ;o)

          • As a guy who played baseball as a kid, I agree!

          • susan

            Do mormans deny the trinity?

          • Mormons have their own “Trinity”. In Mormon theology, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three (3) separate/individual personages; not ONE God being all Three. That is why Joseph Smith claimed to have seen both God (the Father) and Jesus appear to him at the same time as “two personages”.
            However, the Bible states that God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and that Jesus is the image of the Invisible God. (Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17) In other words, God is invisible to mankind but mankind saw God through the Advent of Jesus Christ, the Word, made flesh. (John 1:14)

            Mormonism is pseudo-Christianity and teaches “another Jesus” – NOT the Jesus of the New Testament Scriptures.

          • Julie

            They believe more in self exaltation to become gods some day so the concept of the trinity is irrelevant to their goals.

          • j7hancock

            Plus, they believe Jesus and Lucifer are brothers! Talk about blasphemy!

          • Julie

            They have changed their beliefs over 3,000 times.

            You can look up old mormon threads on Catholic Answers…and the young people don’t know about past beliefs, are in denial, and then either former Mormons or Catholics start bringing up all the beliefs.

            They are becoming standardized into mainline Christianity…but very tricky people…the ones who want to prosletyze….the Mormons study the Catholic Church very intensely, want to overshadow it some day…it was a great day when secular Mayor of Rome allowed them to build a big, grandiose temple…even with the public intent they want a share in the Vatican’s stature and praise….

            And in studying Catholicism, they will use the same phraseology, same words…but with a different meaning…disturbing.

            I don’t think they think that any more about Christ and Satan….and they pray to the Holy Spirit…and still think they are saints upon membership.

            And they have to tithe, some bishops requiring their W – 2’s, and if you look up St. Justin the Martyr describing the Mass…only the rich were obliged to support the widow and orphans…but only they themselves decide individually how much they wanted to help…freedom most essential in our faith and development.

          • j7hancock

            Yes, we have a very good and exhaustive book written by former Mormons, one of whom is a great grand daughter of Brigham Young, who explained why she left Mormon ism. It’s very interesting to read the real history of Mormonism and sad that their current young missionaries don’t know all that. When you try to tell them, they get really upset and really believe it is all pure slander. But I have to hand it to them, most are very gracious and good-hearted. They really believe what they believe. I’ve met several of them and pray regularly for all the ones I’ve met that God will mercifully show them the truth that they may be saved.

          • Julie

            Yes, they are all very good people, the ones I have met. Culture of nice. They were loosing many; we had about 30,000 visits within days when someone OP’d if Mormonism a cult.

          • j7hancock

            Wow, great news! May they truly come to Christ.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Exactly, the divide between the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland is solidified through the Masonry. They are all from the Protestant community bar one exception who is now dead. Also in Sydney there was a tacit agreement of one for one in the NSW Police Force. If the Commissioner was Catholic the next would have to be a mason, and then again a Catholic and then again a mason. The masons were always prominent Protestants. They go hand in hand.

          • j7hancock

            Sorry Julie, but that’s just not the case. Yes there are a lot of Protestant members. There are also a lot of blacks who claim to be Muslims in the U.S. That are involved in it. It’s usually out of ignorance. The lower levels really don’t know the truth about this organization and what it really stands for. But the fact is that there A LOT of Protestant pastors who preach against the Masons very vehemently. And they inform their parishioners about it. It used to be that about 30 years ago, many Protestants really didn’t know so much about it. I had a great aunt who was involved in the women’s version. She was clueless because they sewed togwther, did community outreach for the poor, and had Bible study. She was in the lower levels, never attaining to the higher levels where they started teaching you that Christianity was false. In the low levels, they take whatever religion you have and practically encourage you to keep it. My great aunt died never knowing. But some of our family did try to share the truth with her. She didn’t believe it because she never experienced the true Masonic teachings because she never moved high enough. She thought we were mistaken for believing the Masons to be bad. So most lower level members really just don’t know. But most Protestants in the last 30 years have seen a major move by pastors and churches to expose this Satanic group for what it is. So most Protestants are against it. But you’re still going to have some here and there that think it’s innocent. Most Protestants also don’t believe Joel Osteen to truly be a man of God. But there are still many who do. He has a huge following among people who aren’t even Christians but are New Agers. Don’t assume that because someone is on TVwith a huge following that all or even most Protestants are supportive or in agreement. A lot of those guys get their support from people who are not really even church goers before they come across them on tv.

          • j7hancock

            It’s true that there are quite a few Protestants who are Masons, but please know that the majority of Protestants also consider Free Masonry to be Satanic. It causes a lot of rifts between Protestants who are Masons and those who are not. It us preached against by many a preacher and priest. The sad thing is that those who are involved in it are usually in the lower levels, where they don’t realize what their organization is about – and they are in the majority, unfortunately. You try to tell them, and they think you making slander – they tend to not believe it. By the time they find out the truth, they’ve spent enough time in involvement to be thoroughly brainwashed enough to knowingly stay in, knowing that they are denying God and partnering with Satan. But like the Mormons who believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers, they believe there is really no difference (or little) between God and Satan. But more and more Protestants who were ignorant about Free Masonry have become informed, thanks to a few righteous men who God saved out of Free Masonry. They left the Masons and have some excellent exposes on the Masons that really got a lot of Protestants’ attention. Like the Mafia, though, once you get out, you don’t just leave and get left alone. If you were in a high enough level to know too much, they don’t take very kindly to you leaving. Life gets real risky once you do. And yes, unfortunately, many of our nation’s founders were Masons. I’m not sure how far any of them got. I haven’t done any research on that at all. It may be that they weren’t that high up. Maybe someone else here knows?

          • Pero Ercegovac

            I understand where you are coming from J7H (I will call you that from now on in so as to give you a name) but it is from a very American perspective. Like I said before Masonry is a European virus and the fact is that in Europe, from whence it came, it was in the first few centuries an exclusively Protestant association formed in the UK, and eventually spread to France where with the assistance of the British Establishment funded much of the French Revolution in a bid to destroy the Catholic Crown who was now the Protestant UK’s greatest rival with the decline of Catholic Spain. What started with the aim of defeating a Catholic monopoly in European trade soon got out of hand and Britain soon found itself at war with Revolutionary France as the two Lodges were now fighting for European supremacy. Hence, for example, in Northern Ireland to this day the Masonry, run by the London branch though they call themselves those who are under the Scottish Rites, was instrumental in installing Protestant predominance in politics and the economy. This was the same as in Australia where the Catholics were the heart of trade unionism and the Labor Party (as they formed the working class as the convicts and miners were of Irish and Scottish Catholic descent, though a minority Welsh Methodist mining class was also involved here) whilst the Masons were the Protestant elite behind small and big business and hence took control of the Conservative Party which would become the Liberal Party and who were exclusively Monarchists and pro-British Empire. By the 1950s this began to change and both sides opened up to one another. America though, due to the War of Independence, went its own way. But the rest of the Commonwealth developed along the lines of what London sought from her colonies. So the Protestant/Mason vs Catholic divide developed along the same lines in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, India, Rhodesia, South Africa, Ireland, the rest of the UK etc etc. They essentially formed the banking system called London City which was the centre of investment banking worldwide from Victorian times onwards and hence are in the highest places of most financial institutions. The average Mason does not even realise they serve a Satanist organisation as they join for business contacts as Masons help one another before others. The ones who head toward the 33rd level are another story. The smartest thing they did was in the early 19th century when they stopped being exclusively Protestant and open to others as now they are essentially all powerful. In your country the power of one Lodge is well known and it is called Skull and Bones. This Lodge (and college fraternity) have given your country many a president and heads of the Federal Reserve. The average Protestant is not part of this, but the elites, including most of the Bishops of the Anglican and Presbyterian Church worldwide are including the current and past Archbishops of Canterbury.

          • j7hancock

            Thank you for sharing all that. Some of it I knew already, but some of it was complete news to me. Ouch! I’m Anglican, and I had no idea our Archbishop was involved in the Masons, though I’m not entirely surprised given the Mason hold in Britain. All the more reason for me to renounce the Anglican church. I’m of a group of Anglican churches who have cut off from Canterbury because of so many other blasphemous moves, including re – writing their own brand of Bible to allow for numerous types of ungodly unions outside of marriage. My former church preached against the Masons, and it was Anglican. But they later caved in favour of a gay bishop. I was so upset over that. Yes, I’m quite well aware if our numerous presidents who have been Masons. I vaguely remember how people fawned over Jimmy Carter who made no bones about admitting to being a 34th degree Mason, and he’s still a Sunday school teacher in his Baptist church. A lot of Baptists oppose and expose Masons, but yet a lot of their churches still have active members who are Masons. D. C. Ought to get anyone’s attention about the Masonic hold in places of government, both due to its lay out by those civil engineers at that time, as well as the members of government who are involved even now -and as you said, the Federal Reserve, which is a private entity and answers to no one but itself. All this is what has made me wish to leave the U.S. at times, for good. I would like for Walid to be right that our nation will repent and be a force for good in the end times, but I often fear that we are instead going to aid and abet the Antichrist precisely because of those people in power in our nation. I hope I’m wrong, but we will see. I have some of that Welsh Methodist heritage in my family, too, on my mom’s side, by the way. I did not know, either, about the Protestants in northern Ireland being largely Masonic. That would explain a whole lot, in some ways.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Now I know why j7h you have thought about Catholicism, it is because you come from a traditional Anglican Church, which like I said to Grandmere is only one step away from Catholicism. Hence the reason so many of your priests went over to the RCC and the EOC when these gay reforms came up. I did not know that about Jimmy Carter. Wow! Fascinating stuff. America will repent. Do not worry. Walid is right about that. You are too important in God’s plans and He did not make you the most powerful nation on earth for no reason at all.

          • j7hancock

            I hope so, brother. I really do -about our country. But I think we are at least going to see some bad times before we wake up. Yes, this is why I feel a kindredness of sorts with Catholics. We really do have so much in common in our faith. I love the Mass, which is the same when I visit Catholic churches. Our book of common prayer has much in common, too. This is why I may soon make the same jump other Anglicans have made. But I have gone to other Protestant churches, as well. I’m currently attending a Baptist church because there’s not much else here. The Episcopal churches here are in the wrong camp. But this Baptist Church is truly a good one. They have a very godly pastor who has a real heart for God and preaching the hard truth that is so unpopular these days. He is a rare voice, who doesn’t compromise God’s word, even if it upsets other Baptists. Ha-ha! I guess that’s why I still go tgere. But I have not joined, I’m merely a regular visitor. LOL! In time, I will make my decision, and it won’t be ten more years from now. The RCC may well be my new church home in the near future.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Just follow your heart and let Jesus guide you and make sure whatever decision you make it is your own and it is one that gives you peace.

          • j7hancock

            Thank you. And amen to that. That’s my goal, to let Jesus be my guide and my Lord, no matter what. I don’t know if I ever told you, my first name is Jannah, pronounced like it would be in German rather than English. Many of my family say it the English and the Germanic way. So you can choose which sounds better to your own ears. But J7H is also a good and short name. I approve and don’t mind in the least if you choose to continue with that instead.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            No you never told me your name. I will respect it and address you as Jannah, with the German pronunciation.

          • Julie

            You come across trying to prove falsehoods.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Do any protestant denominations forbid their congregants to belong to the Masons? Ours does, has since shortly after Masons began.

          • Reportedly, Masons follow the teaching that “all faiths” lead to God and that God is the same deity to all faiths. The Protestant teaching is that Only Jesus Christ is the Way, The Truth and The Life and no one can go unto The Father (God) except through Him (Jesus). Jesus is the Mediator and High Priest and our Advocate. No one else can be. Thus, if any “Protestant” church does not adamantly speak against the false teaching of Masonic “theological beliefs, it has indeed allowed “leaven” to creep into its midst like many other apostate churches – and we know what a little leaven does, according to the Holy Bible. (1 Corinthians 5:6; Galatians 5:9)

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I just asked a simple question, was expecting a Yes or No answer. Since I live in a very small community, I know every Mason here, 75% of them are ‘Christians’.

          • Julie, as stated before, anyone can claim to be “Christian” and yet not be a true follower of the New Testament teachings of Jesus Christ. Such sects/cults are categorized as “pseudo-Christianity”. Read for yourself what some of the Freemasonry thoughts are. Here is a basic conclusion from an article that is worth reading in its entirety to understand what lies behind the indoctrinated teachings of freemasons.

            “CONCLUSION”

            “By now, it should be very clear that Freemasonry is simply and only revived Paganism. They are interested in promoting a One-World Religion that brings together all the religions of the world. This unification will be accomplished by uniting men and women on the basis of a common practice of common doctrines gleaned from Buddhism, Hinduism, the New Age, the Ancient Mysteries Religions
            of Egypt and Babylon.

            We do not have Christianity here, my friends. We have the Unitarianism that will lead to the One-World religion of the Antichrist. Thus, we do see much praise of Freemasonry by key leaders of the New World Order, whose express
            objective is to unite the world so that the New Age Christ can arise and take control of the world, in complete fulfillment of Biblical prophecies concerning Antichrist. In fact, some of these New Age authors openly call him Antichrist.

            Certainly, no one who reads this material with an open mind and open Bible can still believe Freemasonry is Christian. The evidence is overwhelming that Freemasonry is very much against Christianity, and only takes upon itself a
            thin mantle of “Christianity” so as to deceive.”

            Source http://www.cuttingedge.org/free008.html

          • Julie

            You also come across as being very superior in attitude and better than thou………………………………………………….

          • susan

            I have freemasons in my family, I’ve never been or was interested. Everything is so secret. I can say that one of my family members mentioned that they don’t like to use the name of Jesus during meetings.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            You know women cannot be freemasons.

          • j7hancock

            Oh yes. There are many Protestant churches who do not extend membership to persons who claim to be Masons. But some get in by not admitting to it for a while. Usually, if it’s a church that teaches the truth, those Masons eventually leave because they can’t reconcile their Masonic teachings with the truth of the Bible. But many Masons are in the lower levels and never really move out of that. Therefore they don’t really know what the Masons really teach, if they stay in those low levels.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            OK, just please comprehend that freemasonry is a European virus, as it comes from London and Paris, that has spread throughout the world. At its heart is an attempt to destroy Catholicism as the RCC, along with the Orthodox Church in Eurasia, are the only institutions that have openly opposed it.

          • j7hancock

            There is quite a movement in the Protestant faith to repulse and expose the Masons too. Especially so here in the U.S.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Post civil war America went through a large witch hunt of Masons. For obvious reasons. They got to strong and seemed to profit from the deaths of 500,000 countrymen more than others. Like I said, America was an exception. But please do not be naive j7H they are quite strong in your country as well. They remain secretive. And in your country they remain Protestant in the majority of their membership. The problem is your country has a heavy divide between your elite Protestant founding fathers’ families and your average Protestant Johnny Citizen. As you guys realise with the collapse of your economy toward the end of the naughties when your government bailed out the banks. The question for the average American is why did politicians and bankers so readily assist one another? They have an agreement as they belong to the same club. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. And who suffers? The average man on the street.

          • j7hancock

            Oh no, you’re quite right about the Masons still having a strong hold in our country. I agree with that. But a commenter said she had never heard of a Protestant church speaking out against the Masons, and I was just informing her that a whole lot of them do speak out against it. In the last 30 years, more and more Protestant churches have awakened to what Masonry is about and have boldly come out against it. I hear it all the time in various different denominations. But the Protestant churches that are considered more ecumenical, such as Lutheran, Anglican/Episcopalian, Presbyterian are not the main Protestant churches speaking out against it. It more non-denominational, Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Church of Christ, and Church of God in Christ who are speaking out against the Masons, even though some people belonging to those churches are Masons. Many Chamber of Commerce affiliations have Masons, which makes sense. By the way we also have Catholics here who are Masons. A guy in my former church had been a Catholic and a Mason both for years. He later chose the Anglican church, and he remained a Mason. He was a high ranking fireman in my hometown. He’s retired now. The Masonic movement is no joke. They surely will have a hand in the end times game that unfolds.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            It is illegal for Catholics to be Masons within the Church but now there are more and more Catholics worldwide as they seek business connections. The Scottish Rite was in fact formed by Presbyterians from Scotland and expanded through London and beyond. Have a look at the life and times of Albert Pike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike He was the most powerful Mason in US history and very ugly character. An open Luciferian. You will see why by the second half of the 19th century Americans started turning against Masons as they were by then becoming all powerful.

          • j7hancock

            That’s a shame and a sad waste of a life. I’ve heard about him but not that much.
            It may very well be that this Catholic Mason fireman officer in our church left the Catholic church because of his Masonry. I never thought to ask. He would have probably said because he and his wife and I were on friendly terms. I didn’t realize he was a Mason until after I knew them for a while.

        • Julie

          Thanks, even most Catholics are not knowledgeable of Italian politics and the Church…but then our faith is focused on the Lord and not secular things…or their origins.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Italy is very important to Croatia so most of us follow her politics very closely. Especially, amongst us from Dalmatia and Istria on the Mediterranean Coast. Hence, we have an old saying: “follow what happens in Venice in the morning, and avoid a visit (an invasion) in the evening” ;o) Thank God things have changed and due to our joint Catholic heritage now a days we have excellent relations.

          • Julie

            Pero…you said there were issues between the Vatican and the Polish people…and the Polish priests helped sustain the faith of the people…in what way was the Vatican not supporting their faith?

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Not nowadays but way back during the period of communism as John XXIII made too many steps toward conciliation with the communists in the Soviet Union in a misguided belief that they would secure the rights of worship for the Catholics in Soviet Ukraine and Lithuania. This led only to infiltration. JPII did an amazing job as a Cardinal in fighting this. The Polish Church was always with her people and often ignored certain diplomatic pushes from the Vatican toward appeasement in order be a true shepherd to Her people. In the long run with the emergence of JPII the Church in Poland won over the Vatican and in the end the Church led the way to the collapse of communism and the freedom of the Polish nation.

          • Julie

            Yes JPII did and he was no mason. He foresaw the times we are living in, the anti church and anti gospel.

            In some ways Pope Francis could be too open minded in some ways…but the times are getting bad fast…atleast here in USA…we whites will be minority they say by 2044….our borders not secure…backlash by black power and socialist/communists in our country…we will be poor some day.

            P Francis is guiding us to learn to be poorer…

            Anyway, thanks for explaining…Fr Gobbi of the Marian Movement of Priests had a prediction through his alleged inner locution of Mary, before it happened and I was part of this movement…that Mary would triumph over communism…

            It is now in our country….we have alot of work to do….

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Yes, I feel in one way that P F is indeed too open minded, hence my hope lies in that perhaps he is naive. Lets face when it comes to experience in politicking in no way can being a Cardinal in Buenos Aires be compared to what happens in Rome. You really have to have had you career built within the Curia to be able to handle the different splinters and vying ambitions within. Perhaps the Holy Spirit chose him for his innocence in order to bring in some fresh air. Gobbi is a fascinating character. Do you have any good websites you can suggest that I can look more into him?

      • Julie

        Mike,

        Just like the pope sits on the chair of Peter with the cross upside down showing he is the anti christ….

        The symbol of the cross upside down is the memorial of S Peter declining to be crucified up as our Lord, and preferred to be killed with his head down.

        Sorry your sources are most compromised and untrustworthy.

    • Stephen Dalton

      Linda, I’ve criticized you in the past for inaccuracies, but this time you were spot on. You’re correct about the Church and the FM’s being at terrible odds with each other. We still are.

      • Linda Murray

        Hi Stephen. 🙂 That’s because something has to be proven to me before I believe it. All of the different denoms have their faults & errors. Not just the RCC.

        It really makes my blood boil when something HAS BEEN proven to be true & everyone just sluffs it off… then some dingle berry comes along with the crap about the vatican being in league with Freemasonry & the pope being the AC and all of a sudden a bunch of idiots with NO PROOF believe it!

        I’ve never had a problem with the Catholic people. The only problem I’ve ever had is with the DOCTRINE of the RCC. But that problem I have with it WILL NOT let me accept LIES about the RCC. I will defend the RCC against that. Just as I would anyone or anything that is being lied about.

        The Catholic people are wonderful, loving, caring people with sincere hearts. And that’s why I try to talk to them about the doctrine they’ve been exposed to. Because I care.

        I see some of the doctrine & then I see what scripture says about it… & I have learned about the Hebrew language & the Hebrew culture so I can understand the NT through the eyes of a Jew who lived back then… thereby making sense of some things that don’t add up through Greek eyes & mindset.

        Did you know that there are a few Greek translations of the OT that actually call YHVH/God… PIPI (pronounced ‘pee pee’.)? 😀

        • Context helps:

          Greek Septuagint manuscripts with Hebrew YHWH[edit]

          Some Septuagint manuscripts (e.g. POxy 3522, LXXIEJ 12 & POxy 5101) render it (Paleo-Hebrew script, which borrows from the Phoenician alphabet); and still other variations are evidenced in early Greek OT manuscripts (e.g. LXXVTS 10b, LXXP.Oxy.VII.1007, SymP.Vindob.G.39777 ).[citation needed][10]One version containing is that of Aquila of Sinope (AqBurkitt, AqTaylor).[11] Jerome mentions that some Greek manuscripts contain the Hebrew letters YHWH (Prologus Galeatus), he also comments (Letter 25 to Marcellus) that this Hebrew could mislead some Greek readers to read YHWH as “Pipi” (ΠΙΠΙ), since the letters YHWH (read right to left) look like Pi Iota Pi Iota (read left to right) in Greek.[12] Papyrus Fouad 266 is an example of this kind of text, though the original scribe left a space, and a second scribe filled it in later,[13]but not all scholars are agree to this view. Albert Pietersma was the first to claim that Fouad contains some pre-hexaplaric corrections towards a Hebrew text (which would have had the Tetragrammaton). Hanhart (1978) and Pietersma (1984) regard this space for YHWH as a later reaction to earlier use of Kyrios in earlier copies of the Septuagint. Another example is the Ambrosiano O 39 sup. – the latest Greek manuscript containing the name of God is Origen’s Hexapla, transmitting among other translations the text of the Septuagint.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Oooh… that is nice work there Rudy!

          • Hvala mnogu, drugar!

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Molim, prijatelju. (Btw Drugar is the commie way of saying it, we katolici say prijatelj ;o))

          • The Macedonians insist otherwise, but then again, I got harassed by a baba for using hvala instead of blagodaram 😀

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Makes sense as it is their word for the commie drug, God bless the flying baka for keeping her language alive and refusing to use the non Mako word hvala. You gotta admire her spunkiness for that!!!

          • You know what? I do! We need cultural guardians! I just ask that they don’t attempt to rip off my ear in the process!

          • Pero Ercegovac

            You know the old Polish saying: “Your mother tongue is passed down upon the knees of your grandmother!” At least you now have the tactical advantage that when in polite conversation you do not wish to hear what someone says you can reply: “Sorry, mate! I am bit deaf in the right ear.”

          • You have a point!

    • j7hancock

      Yep, that’s the way I see it, too.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Karol Wojtyla was my priest’s Bishop in Poland, Freemason I doubt, my Priest said Karol was demanding and expected his priests to do their jobs and do the paperwork that the bishop need to do his job, Karol was always kind to the people, not so kind to his priests.

  • Tom_mcewen

    I watch the whole thing, at first I feared it would be a hatchjob. but it was very good, a good taste of the Poles, a people who I have great respect for. Even though I know that the NKVD bugged everything, I still was shocked about the listening to confessions. Thanks I had seen this offered before, but would not watch it, I am gun shy of videos which about the Pope, since most times he is shown as the Evil Antichrist and in some cases eats babies in a ninth circle Satanic rite.

    • Julie

      True…the state I lived in had a huge bill board next to the interstate on the West Coast showing his picture and he was anti Christ…his teachings contradict everything of such an image…this time this done by so called local Christians.

      • Grandmere

        They are under a strong delusion. They believe a lie. They do not listen to the voice of the shepherd, Jesus. They reject the authority he left them.

        • Julie

          It hurt alot of Catholics….but nothing to do about it… many of us said nothing….but JPII’s funeral had great impact on many people, including my other co workers…

  • AnthonyM

    Thanks for the link, I’ll watch it.
    Sad to say, there are those Protestants that love to hate Catholics. Their ideology blinds them and taints what they think and say. They might be seriously disappointed if they make it to heaven, and find that is not only Mary there, but she has a position of high honor, greater than their own.

    • Tom_mcewen

      AnthonyM the Poles have great respect for the Virgin Mary, she was given the credit for pleading with her Son for the survival of the Polish state in the battle against the Red Army in the battle of the 1920s and I have heard her called the Queen of Poland by Poles. As I said a people I greatly respect. They lost 6 million citizens in WWII both Jews and Catholic about 50/50. They know that the hero doesn’t ride into the sunset, but dies in the first reel.

  • Julie

    Don’t buy the story. Have many encyclicals and teachings by him….have heard many of his sermons, remember reading when he first came to Vatican he trusted hardly anyone until he met Cardinal Ratzinger.

    And there have been a number of Polish priests who were actually communist plants….American and Canadian seminaries targeted and infiltrated by communists in the 1930’s….

    Poland has been the battlefield between East and West too many times and consider that the airplane carrying the entire government leadership of Poland was crashed coming into russia.

    I read parts of my father’s book he obtained in the seminary, around 1941, ‘The Black Book of Poland’…

    When JPII was elected, I knew right away he was a great gift from God, and to know he came out of Poland…where many Poles have died under both communists and Naziis..and countless others before him…most strong person.

  • Grandmere

    For some reason, whenever I see an obelisk My twisted little mind goes to Pinocchio.

  • Grandmere

    Just a face in the crowd? Be very careful. Did Gabriel appear to you and call you full of grace? Did he say all people would call you blessed? Who was the first person to receive Christ not only in her heart but in her body? She did that for your sake. At this time of year she was preparing to give you your savior. Can you not humbly thank her?

    • Julie LaBrecque

      No they won’t because they think we live in a democracy not a kingdom.

      • Grandmere

        I do love your wise and pithy words. You live in my heart, dear one. Hope you are having a blessed Advent as we contemplate joyous mysteries.

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Having very nice Advent this year, thank you, and same to you.

    • adrian kane

      Just gonna throw this out,did Mary call God her saviour,? To Gabriell?Does that mean she was a Sinner?

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Just gonna throw this out, what does Kecharitomene mean?

        • Grandmere

          Snap goes the mouse trap

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Was John lying in Rev 12 when he described her (after having declared that he saw the Ark) in heaven with a crown? Wasn’t the Ark kept in the temple? Who is the temple in heaven, and why is the Ark of His covenant there (Rev 11:19) ? Why did the earthly Kings, Sons of David have their mother enthroned and crowned on a seat next to the King? Why did Solomon bow to Bathsheba when she entered the throne room? Why did he have a seat brought in next to him for her? If Jesus is KING, then His mother is the Queen Mother: “Behold, YOUR mother.”

    • So, Julie, apart from saying that Mary is the “Queen Mother”, do you also accept the following teaching that Mary is the “spouse” of the Holy Spirit, as mentioned by the following Catholic source?

      “Through her divine maternity, Mary in a certain way entered the “Mary is the sealed fountain and the faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit where only he may enter. She is the sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendor than anywhere else in the universe, not excluding his dwelling above the cherubim and seraphim. ”

      “The more the Holy Spirit finds Mary, His dear and inseparable spouse, in any soul, the more active and mighty He becomes in producing Jesus Christ in that soul, and that soul in Jesus Christ.” ~ St. Louis de Montfort

      “As the Mother of Jesus our Savior, Mary was the Co‑redemptrix of the human race; as the spouse of the Holy Spirit, she shares in the distribution of all graces.”
      ~ St. Maximillian Kolbe

      With regard to the Father she became the first born daughter: I came out of the mouth of the Most High, the first-born before all creatures (Ecclus 24:5). With regard to the Son, she
      was a mother; with regard to the Holy Spirit, she was a bride.”
      ~Saint Alphonsus Liguori

      Source: http://catholicfire.blogspot.com/2008/05/mary-spouse-of-holy-spirit.html
      Hmmm…The last comment by St Alphonsus Liguori appears to say that God married His own “daughter” – ????

      • Grandmere

        Here’s another one for ya Mike. Our mother wears combat boots! Yeah, it’s in the Bible. Go fish!

      • Julie

        I don’t know how else you would call Mary….an unwed mother?

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Who “overshadowed” Mary, Joseph, or the Holy Spirit? By OT reckoning, when a ‘cloak’ was spread over a woman, she was espoused to that person. Mary is quite unique among humans, because she is The Mother of God, the Daughter of God, and the Bride. Psalm 45:10-18 describes this ‘daughter’ who is led to the King because he desires her beauty.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        I’m not saying this to sound boastful, but our Church has 19 centuries of theologians who have studied the Fall so as to fully understand the Redemption. If you will thoroughly study the fall, the weapons and strategy that Satan employed, you will understand why God used the same ‘weapons’, i.e., one woman and one man, both prophesied to be in enmity with the devil, to bring about the overthrow of Satan. Justin Martyr ‘Dialogue with Trypho’ AD 150 “That he was made man from the Virgin, in order that by the very way that disobedience began with the Serpent, by that same way the destruction might take place.” Irenaeus ‘Demonstration of Apostolic Preaching 33’ AD 180 “For it was necessary and proper to perfect Adam again in Christ…and to perfect Eve in Mary” Irenaeus ‘Against Heresies’ AD 190 “…so also Mary, who had a pre–ordained husband, and was still a virgin, by her obedience became a cause of her own salvation and the salvation of the whole human race.” Pseudo-Gregory the Wonderworker ‘Homily 3 on the Annunciation’ “By a woman came the flood of our ills, and by a woman also our blessings have their spring.”St. Augustine ‘On The Christian Combat’: “The purpose of this is that the Devil might be defeated and punished by both natures, male and female…because he was exultant about the overthrow of both. And he would have been insufficiently punished if both sexes in us would have been liberated but not through both sexes.” Amphilochius of Iconium ‘In Natalitia Domini’ “The world, which had once fallen under the power of sin because of a virgin, is now restored to freedom because of a Virgin.”

  • Pero Ercegovac

    JPII was in fact the first Pope since Pius XII to actively fight the freemasons, whilst actively remove several high ranking cardinals who were secretly masons. So the claim that he was a mason is a lie. Whether he was a heretic or a saint is open to debate. But a debate that can only be held amongst Catholics because it concerns us and no one else. It is an internal question on his contribution to the Magisterium, hence only those who belong and live their lives to it have a right to comment. Anyway all Catholics have to regard him as a saint as he was canonised. Whether he deserved this accolade is what is discussed by Catholics worldwide.

  • Pingback: The other America, Fear and Racism in the Matrix, More | IowaDawg Blogging Stuff()

  • Grandmere

    Dearest James, You are of inestimable importance to God and to us. I am so glad you didn’t leave. What a wonderful utterance – the Magnificat! What a statement of faith and confidence in God. Many of those words were spoken later by her son Jesus. I am not saying she taught him anything about who he was or what his mission was. In the fullness of time God chose the one, unique maiden to bear and care for his only son. The more you think on this holy mystery the deeper your appreciation for one who gave herself, body and soul to give you your savior. For now, in this season of Advent, say a prayer of thanksgiving to God for the mother of our Lord.

  • Pero Ercegovac

    No, that was the quid pro quo. He lifted the ban but at the same time demoted the Cardinals from their positions. It is a commonly misreported phenomena that he promoted them. I am not happy with the deal. Personally I believe that though most Masons are unaware they are Satanists as they join in order to make business contacts. The upper echelons that head toward the 33 level are very much aware. So the ban should never have been lifted. Nor am I happy he kissed the Quran. On issues of removing radicals though once he found out he got rid of them like he did with those who followed liberation theology. The question Catholics should ask more readily is why the mass media actually continues to falsely report that he promoted those when he did not? Lets face it the very fact that the Lodge P2 collapsed soon after the scandals surrounding the collapse of the Banco Ambrosiano suggests the JPII moved quicker than most expected within the curia against the masonry circa 1982. The fact that he had to compromise must also be held in context to the events surrounding the assassination attempt on his person. After that he became physically weaker and simply did not have the health to take on the serpent within. What a shame.

    • Julie

      True..and he made a strong statement against clergy abuse in 2002…but then became practically incompetent shortly after.

      Pope Benedict did not want to impose any physical affliction of his own on the Church, and thus resigned not having strength with the rest of the house cleaning.

      • Pero Ercegovac

        BXVI actually started moving quite fast on the issue. He removed on average nearly one priest per month from the major dioceses worldwide. Because they put pressure on him from within.

  • Grandmere

    Now that is one great big thumping request. If you are willing to go into the archives you will find discussions on most of your questions. Do that first, then come back. If you are unwilling, then go back to sleep.

    • adrian kane

      Lol like your humour ZZZzzzz

  • Julie

    So true…hope Mike R reads this…

  • Julie

    How do you know you are so certain what heaven will be like?..especially at the cost of the denigration of the Mother of God???

    Sorry, but you don’t realize how much sin has perverted this world….

    Mary was especially made, saved, redeemed to become the Mother of God, of Whom could not grow and be nurtured by sin.

  • Julie

    The problem with fundamentalism…is that there is always another passage that contradicts the one you show…

    Christ established His only Church on Peter.

    What about the Church? Christ did not pass out bibles.

  • Julie

    Mary magnifies the Lord, she brings us much closer to Him and His will.
    We are called to His Church, not to solitary reading of Scripture.

  • Julie

    My pastor told us 150 Charismatic Catholics left the Church. And they would insinuate they had the Lord and the rest of us didn’t.

  • Julie

    Your understanding is way off….from authentic Catholic teaching…you cannot understand Christ as True Man…and you left out how Peter and Paul instructed us to follow their teachings and traditions…of which you cannot ever find unless you begin to study authentic Catholic teachings.

    We do not worship with bible books. The hierarchy administrate and minister…

    Catholics are Ecclesial Deists….meaning Christ is a big enough God to appoint human beings to run His Church.

    And not anybody can make their own altar and make Eucharist.

    • adrian kane

      I couldn’t care less what your opinion is Julie or Catholic for that matter I’m a Christian I follow Jesus if some new teaching is taught that Jesus didn’t teach like purgatory then I believe it not…be wise as serpents and gentle as doves Jesus said.

      • shoebat

        Is a Catholic not a Christian Adrian? Secondly, I care about what you have to say just as much as I care about what Julie has to say, so why be so crass and say “I couldn’t care less what your opinion is Julie”. Would you like it if someone addressed you with such a tone, especially if its another sister in the faith?

        • adrian kane

          Is b Obama a Christian? He says he is .

      • Julie LaBrecque

        I discern that you don’t believe in purgatory; please provide me with your explanation of the following scripture: Luke 12:47 ‘That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely; and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly.” Matt 19:32-35 “His master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. Should you not have had pity on your fellow servants, as I had pity on you? Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart.”

        • adrian kane

          I can’t see anything here about a place we’re you go to get your sins cleansed Julie by fire .purgatory wasn’t mentioned by Jesus full stop .I kind of wish there was such a place but I’m not banking on it.

      • Tom_mcewen

        If you don’t care Why, did you ask? You have a product you want to sell? I am glad your Bible is an encyclopedia, because mine sure isn’t. Those who don’t hear you, do not hear me. Is that in your bible. take a hike, you are one rude individual.

      • Julie

        Sorry…you don’t even know how Catholics believe or even perceive what happens at Mass…

        So if you don’t understand Catholics then focus on Christ in the bible, and follow the gospel and serve the poor and suffering around you.

      • Julie

        The book of Maccabees state it is good to pray for the dead…this book assembled…and discerned for all the faithful and public revelation….put together by many people over a long time of discernment…but Martin Luther alone with no opposition but did on his own will remove it….it didn’t fit in with his ideas…even John Calvin considered Luther in some poor theology.

    • adrian kane

      So your bible sits on the book shelf and gathers dust.and the hierarchy of ,hundreds of priests who’ve raped thousands of young boys and believe they haven’t broken there vow of cellebecy because they didn’t have sex with women are shuffled about the globe by the cardinals and bishops putting them underground hush hush,while the pope validates the Islamic religion by praying in a mosque?that hierarchy?

      • Julie

        since when have you come into my house let alone any other house or even entered a Catholic Church. You don’t even know the books used at Mass….One has the gospels, the other, the lectionary has the readings for the bible read at the Liturgy of the Word going for 3 cycles, 3 years.

        why don’t you look up st. Justin the Martyr’s description of the Mass to the Roman Emperor in 154 AD.

        Or get yourself a Catholic Catechism, check the footnotes and go back to the end of the book to see how the vast majority of Christian doctrine comes from primarily Sacred Scripture and the Early Church Fathers.

        The Catholic priesthood sex abuse is 5%…A local priest was written up in the secular paper about how much this sex society invades them, affects them. Down the street from his rectory is a 3 story high painting of a semi nude woman pulling at her briefs..and he must drive by it several times a day…pornography is every where.

        So you are slandering 95% of the priesthood while you look away from the horrific sex abuse throughout our entire culture.

        What makes you think he is validating Islam…he is only referring to the belief they share with us in that there is one God.

        Sorry…please check my sources….best response I can give you.

        Please answer: Why didn’t Christ pass out Bible books to people?…

        Did you know that Gutenberg was Catholic who invented the printing press…the protestants made many bibles for so many people who couldn’t read.

        Our belief is not in words but in Christ Himself.
        You never found Christ in the Catholic Church but that doesn’t mean that 1.2 billion Catholics haven’t experienced the same as you either.

        So if you don’t like the Church, why spend your time denoucing that which you don’t understand?

        Why don’t you grow to understand why your take doesn’t have a church and can only use books to find Christ…focus on that…instead of putting down 95% of good priests. That is stereotyping of the worst kind…and is not Christian.

  • AnthonyM

    James, the lack of understanding that causes disagreements can be cleared up with some research and study, prayer and meditation. The answers for the Protestants objections are freely available, and the answer have not changed over time. But some don’t want to listen to or consider the Catholic explanation, lest they be converted, and then have to change.

    So you thought is that Mary was just an incubator, and that God was both Father and Mother to Jesus? Christ was fully human and fully divine, so He has human emotions, including love of ones own mother. She was The Archangel Gabriel recognized her as ‘full of grace” , ‘blessed among women’, and ‘one with the Lord’, and was assumed into heaven by God. This is why Mary the “woman” of Rev. 12 is portrayed as having a body with a head and feet. Mary’s remains are not found unlike many saints. Saints that died and remained here on earth have their souls or spirit in heaven.

    Protestants seem to want to see things as divided that should be together; meaning it is not Faith vs Works, Scripture vs Sacred Tradition, or Jesus vs Mary, etc. There is no need for you to suffer from Mariaphobia (borrowed from Mark Shea). Mary is the 2nd Eve, ‘Death by Eve, life by Mary’ — Saint Jerome (Epistle 22)

    I don’t err greatly holding to Catholic beliefs, if that is was you mean. Catholic Church is the fullness of Truth. It is Christ’s church he founded, and gave keys and authority to St Peter. So why belong to any lessor church off the main stream? I reply that you should stop living in a dead-end tributary and move into the main stream of the living faith.

  • AnthonyM

    2017?

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Would be the100th anniversary of Fatima.

  • Trevor

    To be honest, I don’t pay attention to the Freemason stuff. It’s nothing more than conspiracy theories. I don’t have time to chase down every theory espoused by conspiracy theory buff and try to refute them, nor do I have the energy.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The instigators of this slander fail to realize that the Cross is a thoroughly pagan symbol as it was the means the Romans used to kill non-Roman citizens (which Jesus and Peter were, Paul was spared the cross because he was a citizen of the Roman Empire). Anyone who admits that the moon is the symbol of Islam should recoil at Rev 12:1 where Mary is depicted with the moon under her feet (it is a crescent moon under her feet in the Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe).

  • Julie LaBrecque

    She was saved at the instance of her conception. This isn’t quite inconceivable, for Adam and Eve too, were conceived immaculately. Jeremiah was sanctified from his mother’s womb. John the Baptist likewise. We are all mediators if we do as we are told in the NT, to pray for one another and to bring sinners to repentance.

    • Julie

      So true..great points.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    This is EXACTLY as she appears in the still preserved tilma of Juan Diego from 1531, surrounded by stars, clothed with the Sun, with the MOON, a crescent moon, at her feet. John first relates that he saw the ‘Ark of His Covenant’ in the ‘Temple’, then describes a woman wearing a crown who gave birth to a man-child. The ‘Ark’ was the bearer of the presence of God. Mary is the Ark of His Covenant, Psalm 132:8 “Arise, O Lord, and come to your resting place, you AND your mighty Ark.” The Mothers of the Davidic Kings were Queen Mothers, the Gebirah. Mary is the Queen Mother of THE Davidic King, King Jesus. Compare the following verses regarding the Ark of the OT, and Mary the Ark of NT. Ark/Mary Overshadowed, Exo 40:34-35 & Luke 1:35; ark travels, 2 Sam 6:1-11 & Luke 1:39; leapt in presence of Ark, 2 Sam 6:15 & Luke 1:43, Ark/Mary remain 3 months, 2 Sam 6:11 & Luke 1:56; Ark/Mother addressed, 2 Sam 6:9 & Luke 1:43.

  • adrian kane

    Amen well put brother

  • Julie LaBrecque

    What does ‘Abraham’ mean?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The father of the brothers James and John is Zebedee (Matt 10:2). The ‘other’ James father is Alphaeus, aka Cleopas, (Luke 6:15, Joseph (Joses) was his brother (Matt 27:56), Jude was his brother (Jude 1), Salome their sister, and mother is Mary the wife of Cleopas (John 19:25, Mark 15:40), ‘sister’ to Mary the mother of Jesus

    • adrian kane

      Would have been a sin for Mary to have sex with Joseph and have other children ?I have no problems with this .the church puts Mary on a pedestal were she ain’t supposed to be .where it coming from Julie cause it ain’t scripture.

      • Grandmere

        I put her on a pedestal that reaches all the way to heaven.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The stone was rolled away so people could see the empty tomb. Jesus was already out.

    • adrian kane

      Exactly Julie to let me and you and everyone else in the world in.think about it

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Jesus is the one mediator between us and the Father, but we are called to mediate/intercede for others, bring sinners to repentance, pray for healings, deliverance, etc. You need to read Rev 5:8 & 8:3-5 and see how the prayers are presented to the throne: it’s not what you think.

    • adrian kane

      I don’t disagree with this ,what Dr o you mean sorry bout it’s not what I think?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    How did Simeon know that the Baby that Mary and Joseph brought to the temple was the Messiah?

  • Grandmere

    If you search the archives you will find what you are looking for. Happy hunting!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Why don’t you research the word? In it, you will find the answer to the dilemna: when Mary was ‘saved’. Gabriel did not address Mary by her given name until AFTER he addressed her as Kecharitomene.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Oct 13, 2017 will be the 100th anniversary of Mary’s appearance in Fatima when the sun appeared to hurl toward the earth and dance in the sky, observed by many skeptics as well as believers of Our Mother. The image on the cloak left by Mary in 1531 perfectly matches the appearance of the constellations on the day she appeared there: the ‘sign’ has a fulfillment in a real person, Isaiah 7:14 & Rev 12; the virgin woman is the ‘sign’.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    I don’t find the word Trinity or rapture in the Bible, so it must be a false teaching. Why didn’t you answer the question? Did you know that in addition to going to ‘Abraham’s Bosom’, Jesus also went to a prison of disobedient spirits?

    • We don’t find “Bible” in the Bible, either. They will spin and spin, and look ridiculous doing so.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Walter Julius Veith (born 1949) is a South African zoologist and a Seventh-day Adventist author and speaker known for his work in nutrition, creationism
    and Biblical exegesis with the Amazing Discoveries media ministry and
    on their international television network found in North America on Galaxy 19.

    • This stuff gets more and more tiresome to read, Tom. The more I see Proddies babble (and I mean the vehemently anti-Catholic rabble, not our friends who sit and learn), the more sympathy I have for Rome’s stalwart Christians. God will not abandon them.

      • Tom_mcewen

        Yes, and worse is some of our Bishops are protestants inside and some are true heretics. I pray the number is small, because the society at large is against all Christians.

        • Ah, this was the problem of letting too many outsiders in at one time in a mass conversion. It will take a couple of generations, but remember that God is outside of time. We as a church will be fine.

  • Tom_mcewen

    ” Meaning that I believe what is written in the Bible. I take it on face value.”
    But, you don’t you have preselected verses which reflect your theology, if you read the Bible then you would take John 6 at face value and you clearly don’t.
    A God trapped in a narrow Universe of Material and space and time. A sad God of the 19th century. Try to look for make no carved images in Hebrew.

  • Stephen Dalton

    Please read some uncensored church history without Protestant presuppositions. When you do, you will cease to be Protestant.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      That’s too hard Steve, they like cliff notes Christianity.

      • Tom_mcewen

        Yes, he needs to correct his Bible, he needs to cross out Mark since no where is he listed as the author, he needs to cross out Matthew, no where is he listed as the author, he needs to cross out John, no where is he listed as the author.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Based on your comment, it is obvious that Catholics read the whole Bible and you read parts: explain why God commanded ‘carved’ images to be made. You misquoted ‘call no man father’ and substituted ‘call no man ‘holy’ unless it be your father in heaven. “Amen, Amen (that means SO BE IT) I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is TRUE FOOD, and my blood is TRUE DRINK.” John 6:53-55. You walked away just like those in John 666 did. According to the Bible that you state you entirely base your beliefs in, it tells you that THE CHURCH is the pillar and ground of truth, 1 Tim 3:15.

  • Julie

    Sorry…don’t want to spend time on such ideas.

  • Julie

    Because she was created especially to be Christ’s mother…you have to think…Mary is no ordinary woman, but blessed before all women in every generation.

    Mary is not mediator…but she is the human link, a creature, between us and God.

    You go back to ancient times…there has always been great devotion to Mary, all held her sinless.

    Mary was especially made by God to be Christ’s mother who would be atonement for sin.

    Mary’s parents had original sin.

    But because Mary was chosen to be Christ’s mother, although she was given free will and intellect, she was filled full of grace, and with this grace fully consented Yes to God at her conception, she being in much greater need of salvation and redemption than the rest of humanity.

  • Julie

    There are false apparitions. No doubt.

    But you most likely were not praying to Mary in the way you should. She prays for us to God just like we do for each other.

  • Julie

    The moon under her feet is from the image of Mary of Guadalupe.

  • Julie

    Who in the heck as Catholics don’t read the bible.

    We follow the oral traditions of all those followers of Jesus who sat around Him and heard His Word. Christ did not pass out books…separate, man made objects.

    No Christ founded His Church on His apostles who gave the means and structure to continue His Church for future generations…

  • Julie

    Nonsense.

    The Church uses the Septuagint interpretation..the one Christ referred to as well as his apostles and St. Paul.

    Martin Luther in attempting to find a pure version, went to the Hebrew rabbi version put together 200 years after Christ that did not anticipate the Messiah as we know Him.

    Luther all took the books out that didn’t he didn’t agree with…pretty high handed.

    Sorry…you are very wrong…grossly wrong.

    • Mohammed’s pink swastika

      I don’t agree with everything Martin Luther said or did. What I do agree with him about was that the foundation of Christianity is based off the truth that Christ is the head of the church.

      These truths are not from me. So if you’re going to insist that I am wrong, you’re actually saying that the Bible is wrong.

      But the truth of the matter is that you are wrong. Martin Luther was fluent in many languages. He rewrote the Latin Vulgate using Greek and translating it into German. He did use Hebrew also, but only in academic study. Not in the actual translation of the Bible.

      • Grandmere

        Oh, tomb. Now you really stepped in it. Martin Luther was German. Now we are getting the illusive connection to your pink swastika fetish.

  • Julie

    what kind of religion are you in, anyway? Is it from the Deep South here in the U S A….pretty far off from Christian roots going back 2000 years…

  • Julie

    What he is referring to is that we both believe in One God vs the prior arab view of multiple gods.

  • Julie

    Likewise JPII also hit direct on all the false interpretations of Vatican II, ongoing abuses of liturgy…the false church and false gospel.

    I am afraid the Charismatics got off when they became personal and emotional base and exclusive thinking only they had the Lord. They in essence lost their faith.

  • Julie

    unsubstantiated…

    Big problem with all these so called elitist Christian groups is that they have no concept of how Catholics actually believe..this source included.

  • Julie

    So true…their founder was a woman numerologist.

  • Julie

    You are using Martin LUther’s….with all his deletions.

  • Julie

    Just like Christ chose to be born in the constellation of Aries the Ram, fulfilling the sacrifice of Abraham…who was directed by Angel Gabriel to sacrifice the ram stuck in the bush instead of his son.

  • Julie

    I am sure it is all compromised anti catholic history as well…I read more to see the bigger picture and it is not the type that leads one to condemn the church of my faith.

  • Julie

    arrogance.

  • Julie

    Again…you are so quick to condemn my faith….but you don’t reveal the organization you belong to….so many like this….because you don’t want your association to be held in the same way as you do ours…

  • Julie

    Get yourself a Catholic catechism….start with the Nicene Creed…it will explain…

  • Julie

    Think how you come across to us…to myself….it sounds like anti catholic fundamentalism straight out of the USA….

  • Julie

    Your form came out of America in 1890…don’t you think there is something wrong…when it has lost its roots with Christianity and part of it is based on anti Catholicism…?…

    Ours is based on Christ…our goal in life is not to be better than Protestants…but to enter more deeply every day life in the Holy Trinity…so for us…protestantism is irrelevant in itself…but we consider as separated brethren..you only hear the prayer petition for Christian unity and nothing more…no ragging others down in our churches, thank God.

    But many of us are as here addressing the falsehoods and attitudes of anti Catholic Christians…my new friend told me this very morning, a Korean American Catholic, how much she suffers regarding the false concepts other Christians have of us as well as our country and world.

  • Pero Ercegovac

    There are not. What they have a women’s associations for wives and partners of Masons. But women are not allowed in. Now I have to play my cards openly here. I know this as my close friend is vice-president of the union of all lodges in Australia. I asked him what you said myself previously as I too had heard about this in the media. He said no, that is a red herring, placed by people who are “not involved” (interesting choice of words if you ask me). You can imagine the debates he and I had with me being a conservative Catholic and he a mason. They were not full of fire but they were passionate. Completely different views of the world and how to manage our planet.

    • susan

      Yes, but I will double check.

  • Grandmere

    You go ahead and follow your tradition of hate. We will never give up our tradition of love.

  • susan

    It was good to see part of this movie again. If he was a heretic, he sure didn’t act like one.

  • susan

    I heard that too.

  • Stephen Dalton

    You may have read plenty of church history alright, but from biased, bigoted, Protestant sources. Try reading the actual, unfiltered words of the early Christians in the works of the Ante-Nicean and Post-Nicean Fathers, without reading Protestant presuppositions into them. If you’re honest, you won’t remain a “fundamentalist, evangelical, Christian” for long.
    You may have read and studied the Bible for years, but without knowing the history of how the early Christians understood and interpreted the Scriptures, you and your fellow fundamentalists don’t really know what the Bible really says. All you Protestants have is conflicting, man-made interpretations that vary from one Protestant group to another. That is why I’m no longer a Protestant.

  • Tom_mcewen

    God instructed Moses to have two cherubim of hammered gold at the ends of the mercy seat. God said, “And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, of all things which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel”
    God said, Moreover you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains woven of fine linen thread, and blue and purple and scarlet yarn; with artistic designs of cherubim you shall weave them.”

  • Tom_mcewen

    ” the belief that in the act of communion the bread and wine actually
    becomes the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ, is absolute blasphemy!”
    The science of over 150 Eucharist miracles, makes a lie out of your statement.

  • Grandmere

    From now on you will be know to me as White washed tomb.

    • Mohammed’s pink swastika

      I do not get my sense of worth from what you or anyone else thinks about me. I get my justification through Christ alone, it’s through his power that I live.

      • Grandmere

        What does Christ think of your little pink swastika?

  • Grandmere

    You are trapped in a white washed tomb.

    • Mohammed’s pink swastika

      Christ has set me free. You should let his Spirit free you as well.

      • Grandmere

        May he free you from your swastika some day.

  • Tom_mcewen

    The
    ITCCS, is a one man blog written in Canada by a guy called Annett. He
    is a defrocked church of canada minister, with a shady past. He produces
    very nicely-formatted, official-looking documents and everything. But
    there is no such court, there are no judges, there are no witnesses, there is
    NO such court in recorded Belgium by any government body, nor legal society. There is no such court, period..He holds his
    press briefings from his bathroom, with his soap and toothbrush in view,
    there is no arrest warrants, One of his buddies went to arrest the
    Queen, customs put the guy in a mental ward. I know it warms the hearts
    of those who hate the catholic church but it is a con.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Who claimed He is dead?

    • Mohammed’s pink swastika

      Dude, you don’t even know what you believe.

      • Tom_mcewen

        But I do, it took me ten years of study to leave protestantism behind. The longer I am away the more horror I see in protestantism, from the reform understanding of the sacrifice which is truly disgusting, the criminal changing of the underlying Greek words to reflect protestant theology, the tailoring of the Bible by taking out the OT Jesus and the apostles quoted from over 300 times for the OT ripped apart in the Jewish council in 97AD to take out any prophecy of the coming of Jesus. A OT never seen nor read by Jesus or the Apostles. The re-making of Jesus into an narrow bigoted Greek God on the edge of a jealous hissy fit. A God who is not sovereign but under your personal control by how you hold your mouth and some voodoo words.
        A small God where Wednesday follows Tuesday in Heaven, not a God who is the creator of space and time, but its prisoner. The twisting of the Bible written out of the deposit of faith for the liturgy into an encyclopedia of all knowledge. I have truly come to despise Protestantism or the true Church of the Redeemer over the gas station at 1st and post started last Saturday with seven people and free coffee next to the card table where the Holy Spirit will sign your KJB before He goes for Bible study. I am sure your church was not started last Saturday, but I am sure it was started some Saturday in 1889 with less then seven people. I am sure they had free coffee and a card table, Didn’t they. Protestantism is Charlie Romeo Alpha Papa.

        • Steve Smith

          Tom I understood you perfectly. You think it is from reading this? http://www.pravoslavie.ru/

          • Tom_mcewen

            I book marked site, there were many good articles, but two of culture wars and protestants battle against icons was good, thanks much

          • Steve Smith

            Tom, I always trust the Russian side, but the English part is run by converts i’m more cautious of some articles, but mostly it can be trusted.

      • Grandmere

        I know what I believe. I believe a swastika is a graven image.

  • Steve Smith

    Julie, here is some more amo, go get’em http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/75661.htm

  • Pero Ercegovac

    Exactly, well put.

  • Steve Smith

    GO Grandma !

    • Grandmere

      Steve. Please join me for the party. I am having a lot of fun but it would be better to “tag team” this punk.

      • Steve Smith

        Ok Grandmere , this Russian guy who grew up in the Delta will join ya .
        Grandmas are always the Nuclear option in the Russian Orthodox Church.

  • Grandmere

    Do you cling to your old pink swastika?

  • Grandmere

    I bet it s painful for you to sit on your swastika.

  • Grandmere

    I bet if you look hard enough you can find “make no carved swastika” in German.

  • Grandmere

    to the pink swastika sitting atop a white washed tomb.

  • Grandmere

    CHEF! Forget about the mop. We need a shovel!

    • Steve Smith

      Shovel? we used a backhoe to muck out the cow shed.

  • Grandmere

    Does your bible have a swastika engraved on it?

  • Grandmere

    Is there a pink swastika over the door?

  • Grandmere

    Oh, yes you do mean to be insulting and inflammatory. May the Lord rebuke you.

  • Grandmere

    Where in the Bible does it say to pay respect to a swastika?

  • hwshy

    it would be sad if you are looking past the idolatry of the RCC just in order to support your idea of a Muslim anti-christ. just because they have Truth and speak Truth, does not mean that they are in the will of God. There are groups and religions all over who resonate truths from the Word, but fail when it comes to the person, character and position of Christ.

    • Tom_mcewen

      Is This Idolatry? some Dutchman with a hammer tried to destroy this beautiful piece work of Art

    • Grandmere

      And you said I was unloving? At least I was trying to get at the root of Pinkie’s hatred. But he would never come out of the shadows.

  • Grandmere

    Well our faith is certainly not based on a pink swastika.

  • shoebat

    Mohammed, if you believe someone is a “kook” you need to explain it.

    • Grandmere

      Chef! Hurry up with that shovel. Tomb is really piling it up in here.

  • Grandmere

    Walid will spank me for boasting but here goes. I am a Mensan with an IQ in the 99th percentile. No matter what you say I can and will ridicule your pink swastika. My grandchildren will pick up on it and we will make life very unpleasant for you. It is time for you to lick your wounds and go home. And please take that pink swastika with you.

  • Grandmere

    I see the word swastika as repulsive and provocative. You are not intellectually adept enough to tell when someone is having a little fun with you. PS – you misspelled adept but I adapted my brain to decipher your meaning.

  • Grandmere

    Mohammed said the Latin Vulgate was corrupted too. You are keeping some very dangerous company.

  • Grandmere

    So the swastika is Mohammed’s. I was thinking you were the pink swastika. You are not? Then why do you identify as Mohammed’s pink swastika? The apostrophe attributes the pink swastika to Mohammed. I can help you with your grammar and spelling – which way do you want to spell Mohammed? One thing I cannot help with is your identity crisis. It will take deep therapy for that.

  • Grandmere

    No, but you wear your pink swastika right over your heart.

  • Grandmere

    And when you cross that line It will be game, set and match. By the way, you forgot to capitalize that t.

    • shoebat

      Granmere, just ask him if the presence of God in the Ark was literal or figurative. Did God reside in that box?

      If he says ‘yes’ then counter with “why can’t Christ reside in the bread’?

      You would trip him and he will spin arguments like “its not the same thing”, but you would checkmate him and get him to change his tactical move. Believe me, I played this game of chess before.

      • Grandmere

        Thanks, Chef. It’s been fun but I guess we can only take up so much time at the table. So I will accept the challenge and pose said question if Tomb will suck it up and answer.

  • Grandmere

    Sorry. I don’t cast my pearls before a swine.

    • shoebat

      Grandmere,

      Letting folks know that you have pearls around my falafel stand will attract thieves. Its better to put on fake jewelry 😉 its a bad neighborhood.

      • Grandmere

        My pearls are without a clasp. They can’t be removed. Just keep an eye on Tomb for me in case he tries to sneak up on me from behind.

  • Grandmere

    Careful, Tomb. You have no idea who you are dealing with. You had better hope Tom has left. He can make mincemeat out of you. Don’t poke a stick at a lion.

  • Steve Smith

    Mps,why don’t you stop your” scripture only” and find real facts, I think this will help.

    Icons are not Idols http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/75661.htm

    How do you explain this Jews had Icons

    http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/67566.htm

    Why do you use a corrupted chopped up bible put out by the enemies of Christ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7H6wJ43K_s

    Why do you reject Tradition yet you accept the traditions of men?

    http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/71140.htm

    • Tom_mcewen

      Thanks, Orthodox is so rich in treasures, sad that protestants can not see that in their battle.

      • Steve Smith

        Thanks Tom, Orthodox and Catholics get the dumbest crap thrown at us, Just take a look at this Hateful ignorant crap. I find his PRIDE in ignorance stupefying.

        http://galatiansfour.blogspot.se/2011/04/orthodox-church-branch-of-harlot.html

        Just think what this guy is doing to his soul.

        • Tom_mcewen

          The Greatest insult is to call the Orthodox a daughter to the Latin Church, or the word Branch to the Latin Church, harlot would be okay but Daughter?

          • Steve Smith

            Even when Orthodox correct him he is so slimy, with a response ”like I was Catholic once”. Why is it Tom that you can smell an X Catholic a mile off?

          • Tom_mcewen

            The problem these Ex-Catholics are ignorant, They know nothing but feel good Protestant happy clappy history and Doctrine. you could fly an aircraft around inside their head it is so empty

          • Steve Smith

            Russians call them tree stumps = dumb.

          • Steve Smith

            I can’t wrap my mind around these guys thinking, or I should say lack of thinking. Tom whatever arguments our Churches have I know in my heart that homely Catholics and Orthodox get along better than some in this world wish us to. Have a blessed Christmas season Tom.

          • Tom_mcewen

            You too after Christmas i must go back to the USA,for 6 months, a trip I do not forward too.

  • shoebat

    Define love hwshy?

  • shoebat

    Mohammad,

    You are me, 20 years ago. Do you have 20 years to explain to you that Copts are “Christian”?

    Forget Catholics for a minute.

    Here, we can start: Are Copts according to you “Christian”?

    • Tom_mcewen

      People like the gentleman MPS is interesting, I have to think of him as a complex Solar system, he is in a twin orbit in the center, Paul is in the center when he needs scriptural ammo, then he is in the center when he quotes it. he is the center of mass of this solar system, God rotates around him and Jesus and the Holy Spirit rotate around the planet of God. He is more important then God, He tells God who is saved or who is not saved, who is Christian and who is not, what is the word of God and what is not, what is the important verses in the bible and which verses are not important. Truly the center of Mass

  • shoebat

    She perhaps think your Muslim since you have the name Mohammed and “pink swastika”.

    • momprayn

      I think he told her about 21 hours ago that he was an

      “fundamentalist evangelical Christian. I believe that the bible is the infallible word of God.”

  • momprayn

    Sorry, think I’ll throw up all over the falafel stand. Chef – we need two shovels!
    After seeing these many mocking, condescending comments from some (and on other articles re Catholicism), I now unfortunately understand better about the hatred, arrogance, ignorance, pridefulness, immaturity, bitterness, violence we hear about in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics, and the past Inquisitions, etc. And things are said in the midst like “keep our tradition of love”. Love???
    Not that this is the only site – it’s everywhere. And then Christians wonder why there isn’t more unity.
    It’s not that hard to figure out – even for us unfortunate, more lowly, not intellectually adept enough with only “normal”/low IQ’s. Much repentance, humility, apologies, forgiveness, honest self analysis, open minded study needs to be made and must begin first in the “house of God” before it will spread to the rest of fallen mankind.

    Definition of Smart Aleck:: an obnoxiously conceited and self-assertive person with pretensions to smartness or cleverness

    Definition of Condescending:
    : showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others

    Love: (from the “corrupted chopped up bible put out by the enemies of Christ”):

    “Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

    Jesus weeps.

    • Steve Smith

      momprayn. I hope when you quoted me it was in the context of the vid that was posted.? did you listen to it? The reason I asked MPS why did he use the Masoretic text why did he read the text put out by the very political faction (Jewish) that had Christ put to death and killed. They removed all points of prophecy from the old testament relating to Christ.

      May I remind you that it was MPS that made such nasty comments about catholics ,I personally was willing to let him rant, till he said the Devine Liturgy and the Eucharist was blasphemy.

      http://shoebat.com/2014/09/17/prophecy-never-knew/

      http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/68948.htm

      Things mat seem harsh in black and white, I never wished to belittle you.
      Have a blessed Christmas. pray for me as I do for you momprayn…. sorry for the bad English
      Stefan Davidovich

      • momprayn

        Thanks for clarification – Yes, out of respect for you & possible enlightenment, I watched the video – agree about the “black and white” – true. This is not the best place. And your English is great. I’m sure much better than I would be in your shoes.
        I guess I just don’t see that the books that were excluded affect necessary knowledge of obtaining our salvation so it’s not that important. As a non-Catholic, I was raised in a church that used the Septuagint when studying certain important matters. But if you know of some, let me know. As to the Jews deliberately leaving out OT scriptures about Jesus – there are many scriptures in the “Protestant” Bible that prophesy about Christ that are enough to convict and persuade that Jesus is the Messiah (along with the Holy Spirit’s help).
        Isaiah 53 is one of the better detailed prophecies that I assume most know – showing how he was to die for our transgressions, etc, but for the record.:

        “He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows..and we hid..our faces from Him..we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes (flogging) we are healed…And the Lord laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth (when He was brought in front of Pilate)…For He was cut off from the land of the living ; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken…Because He had done no violence…Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;..By His knowledge My righteous Servant (Jesus) shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities…Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.” Isaiah 53:3-12

        Prophecies in Isaiah and fulfillments in NT re Jesus:

        Exalted – 52:13 = Phil. 2:9
        Disfigured by suffering – 52:14; 53:2 = Mark 15:17,19
        Widely rejected – 53:1,3 = John 12:37,38
        Bear our sins and sorrows – 53:4 = Romans 4:25, 1 Peter 2:24,25
        Make blood atonement – 53:5 = Romans 3:25
        Our Substitute – 53:6,8 = 2 Corinthians 5:21
        Voluntarily accept our guilt and punishment – 53:7 = John 10:11
        Buried in rich man’s tomb – 53:9 = John 19:38-42
        Justify many for their sin – 53:10,11 = Romans 5:15-19
        Die with transgressors – 53:12 = Mark 15:27,28; Luke 22:37

        I’m involved in Messianic ministries and can tell you thousands of Jews (and Gentiles) have come to Christ by just pointing out these prophecies. The problem with converting Jews is not some lack of OT scriptures, it’s the lack of the rabbis teaching them because they don’t want to believe in Jesus (or have been blinded to not see the truth as the NT says) – and the listeners don’t research themselves…..common problem, no? Yes, everyone has their own “pope”.
        Also, for some, there seems to be a lack of trusting and believing scriptures that it’s the Holy Spirit that convicts, gives understanding, after the Father (not us) has drawn them (John 16:7-11; 6:37,44, 65). He will make sure their eyes are opened so they can be saved. That’s His job and we have ours – which is teaching, using any spiritual gifts, etc. As Walid and others say and I agree – God wants to use us as “partners” in bringing about His will.

        Here is one recent example when a pastor in Israel was teaching a Jew:
        “..he read the passage to him in Hebrew, which says:
        31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
        “I then took Uzi to Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22, again we read the passages in Hebrew. Uzi was overwhelmed. He became speechless. I could see the Holy Spirit of God moving in Uzi’s life. It was a supernatural experience! He went from yelling at me and accusing me of blasphemy and declaring that the concept of the New Covenant was not Jewish – to reading the scriptures and thinking about the reality of the New Covenant and Yeshua as Messiah – and then studying the Word of God with me for hours!
        I told Uzi, .. If you want to be a completed Jew, this is the only way – through Jesus Christ.’ Uzi replied, ‘This is so much to grasp but why is it that no one knows about it? Tell me.’ I answered, ‘The rabbis don’t want you to see this so they suppress the truth.’ It is amazing how many times this question is asked of me, and how often I have to give this answer. The Jewish people of Israel are astounded, and some of them quite upset, when they learn that the rabbis have kept this amazing information from them.”
        http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/story-that-sparked-historic-revival-now-on-itunes/
        Anyway – Yes, I always pray for all I “run into”, including fellow posters. Thanks for prayers – we all need as many as we can get – that I’m sure we all agree on! There are others as well ! 😎
        Merry Christmas to you and yours – and God bless………

  • Steve Smith

    no weirder than the slander you put out Just read this and calm down. http://shoebat.com/2014/09/17/prophecy-never-knew/

  • Julie

    Check this reference from EWTN, Catholic television….www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/freemasonry.htm

    • Trevor

      This part jumped out at me at the conclusion:

      If you wish to learn more you can go to any Protestant or Catholic bookstore and find
      books and pamphlets that show why Masonry and Christianity is incompatible. (Not only
      Rome, but also the Church of England and the Southern Baptists have ruled so.)

      It delights my heart to see that the RCC recongizes the Southern Baptists in this sentence.

      • Tom_mcewen

        Well, the Southern Baptists are filled with manners not like the Northern Baptists who were part of the Northern War of Aggression.

        • Grandmere

          And the little old lady in Atlanta said “Amen!”.

        • Trevor

          Meaning? That is completely lost on me. Mind educating me a bit?

          • Tom_mcewen

            Well, I spent a lot of time around Southern soldiers and a Sailors and they are good, but you call the Civil War is just in recess to them, I told a Southern Soldier that Robert E. Lee was the same as a communist since he wanted to overthrow the US government, there was enough heat to warm a factory.

          • Trevor

            There’s a lot of Southern people who are still haboring resentment in losing the Civil War.

            It seem to me the Civil War was more about state rights than the issue of slavery, but I think the issues surrounding the Civil War is vast and complex, not as simple as they teach in public school.

          • Grandmere

            Hey Tom. Did you know Robert E. Lee died of a heart attack after returning home from a vestry meeting! Having been on a vestry I can understand why!

  • Tom_mcewen

    ”Christ founded his church on the Word of God.” That is an interesting concept. When did the Church founded on the Word of God begin?
    397AD when the Bishops in council finished the Bible?
    since people could not read, the Church started basic schools to teach people to read the scriptures and gain a knowledge of theology, followed by the est. of Universities starting in 1100, so then is when the church on the Word of God started?
    So did the church start then or earlier.
    Still it took about eight man years and a thousand animal skins and a equal amount of money to pay the food and lodging of the workers and to buy the supplies, how many hand made bibles need to exist before the church on the Word of God existed? how many people needed to read before the church on the Word of God existed?
    Was the church started with the invention of the printing press by a catholic educated layman?
    Did the church on the Word of God start in 1517AD with Luther?
    Did the church on the Word of God start with Henry VIII?
    Did church on the Word of God start with Calvin? with Knox, Did the church on the Word of God start in 1889?
    Please enlighten us tell us the year the church on the Word of God started.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    You didn’t address the scripture I provided.

  • Julie

    Purgatory…then your children will put you in the ground and bury you. That is it. Mary magnifies the Lord…

    But your soul was not ready to receive her.

    You have joined some kind of anti catholic cult….BTW…my great grandfather came from Ulster…my great grandmother from Wales….and from there….they would suffer so much if any of theirs left the Catholic Church. I am the same way.

    I am not on an island…I am part of the Church, and I want them to pray for me because I am a sinner, I trust in the Lord’s mercy but as St. Paul said, we must all pass through the fire to purge ourselves of sin.

    And we have First Saturdays in reparation for all the blasphemies committed against the Blessed Virgin.

    And America is the hotbed of all sorts of protestant cults….30,000 plus coming down from all the other split up churches.

    Christianity is the greatest voting block in America….and it is useless, powerless….because part of its time is anti Catholic and not focused on the full truth of Christ. I thank God I don’t hear a priest get up and denounce such as we are completely Christ focused.

    America was not founded on any rock, but on the founders of the Constitution. The constitution is our foundation but it is being taken away.

    I know what I am talking about simply because I live here and I am approaching my 70’s…no fool.

    The priests have an education equal to a ph d and they would not be living out lies….if Catholicism is what you think it is, it would be gone a long time ago.

    You look too much to men. Get yourself a catechism and compare it to the sect you are in. There is nothing more anyone can say to you….you are injured and I know about things there in Ireland as I was abused by Irish nuns but I still was able to receive my faith from them…and I pray for them instead of hating them…and came across the particular one with mercy and forgiveness and no bitterness and she told me she was not meant to be a teacher….

    People change…and when you lock them up in a cell with your condemnation and damnation…you likewise imprison yourself unable to see the truth of Christ and people’s humanity….yes…it is good we pray for each other and for those who have passed on….Mary our greatest advocate when we are dying.

  • Julie

    You need to see the link I gave….Cardinal Ratzinger submitted the documented for John Paul II to state again Catholics cannot be Masons…Yours is part of that diabolic manifestation to smear the pope and the Church….too bad you didn’t listen to my friend cry after church last Sunday sick of all this…

    You have no idea how much hurt this kind of junk causes us…this is not the working of Christ at all but the bigotry that comes out of American bible belt.

    It is not the fruit of Sacred Scriptures either.

  • Tom_mcewen

    You said, ”Christianity is rooted in the Bible not tradition”

    But if you knew history you would know the Bible is based and comes out of Tradition.
    What books comes from what Apostles come from the tradition of the Church Fathers, the what, the why, the who, and the when are answered in Tradition.
    The Names of the books comes from the Tradition of the Church Fathers, the Bible you hold to, be independent of Tradition all comes from Tradition, the Tradition of the deposit of faith.
    God used men and the knowledge kept in Tradition so you could have a Bible you say tradition is unbiblical, when in fact Tradition is the mother of the bible you hold.
    Prove me wrong using history

  • Tom_mcewen

    Where DID the Bible come from? a magic Unicorn?

  • Julie

    You don’t know our beliefs. You are making up stuff.

  • Julie

    I will not be answering any more of your outrageous remarks.

  • Julie

    You are the one who is reacting and believing all sorts of falsehoods.

    You don’t know or have read anything or know any documents written by C Ratzinger or P JPII that denounce Masonry…what I have been raised on knowing it is condemned.

    Please think twice how you use the word ‘Sister in Christ’….because we are all supposed to be devoted to bearing truth and not falsehoods.

    Sorry, won’t respond to your remarks any more because you are closed minded to truth.

  • Julie

    And ours is not the lone ranger with a bible…our faith in Christ must greater than that.

    You are willfully ignoring Christ establishing His church on Peter…pick and choose…man made religion. The price is that you are denying yourself the life of Christ given to us in the Word and Sacraments…and it proves it because you carry alot of misgivings…get rid of them for the sake of your own soul.

    We pray for all the deceased and I prayed for you this morning before the Blessed Sacrament.

    Enough now…go in God.

  • Julie

    This is not reflecting those who left the Church and before they left, let people know they had more of the Lord than they….

    We have to remember that Christ said those who perform miracles and make prophecies may not be insured into heaven, but those who do the Will of the Heavenly Father.

    I saw too much focus in time on my friends trying to find out almost every day what the Lord was wanting to do next…while they put the Church and the Mass and its guidance to the side.

    I myself am praying for a health condition and when my spirit is afflicted at night when I pray, I pray then in tongues.

    So I am speaking about those who left the Church in droves in the USA and ended up in these independent isolated charismatic groups that then fell into all the anti Catholic talk. Not good fruit of the Holy Spirit…but end up focusing on man again instead of the Lord.

  • Trevor

    Who is God?

    The Great I Am. Exodus 3:14. Throughout the Old Testament, that’s Who He Is, “I Am.” That’s also who Jesus is, that’s why the Jews wanted to stone Him.

    Now – here’s my question for you, sir, from one Protestant to another – WHEN HAVE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH, OR THE COPTIC CHURCH HAVE EVER DENIED THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, MAKING THEM ANTICHRIST?

    I await your answer without any spin.

    • Grandmere

      Hey Trevor. I was going to make a comment about his spin, but since it involved a turban I thought better of it. I am in enough trouble already.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Nice 69? Mustang, I had one I bought new and gave away last year.

  • Tom_mcewen

    How do you have a place in a non-material Sphere Which a non-material God exists not a prisoner of space a time but the creator of this material universe with space and time. God is outside any reference we can think of when we think place we call Outside, there is no such place.What would be the grid location without matter or space or time for matter to exist, there is no outside of the Universe, there is something that our minds can not conceive, it is beyond us. a think ”a condition of existence” is a good way to say it.

  • Trevor

    I hope you will find that I have become much more of a “thinker” recently. I am enjoying reading up on Orthodoxy, most recently reading the work done by the current pope of the Coptic Church. Much of what he wrote I agree with, but where I stumble is the veneration of Mary, but I think that it’s not quite the stumbling block like Jesus is, if you get my drift?

    There’s one question that burns on my mind more than anything – what is the official position of the RCC on Israel? I have seen too many static about how the RCC were actually responsible for killing Jews during the Crusades, and I cannot find a reliable Catholic source to learn the true position of the Jews and Israel. The reason I ask because since my discussion with Joel Richardson on Twitter (he has since blocked me), I am under the impression Joel Richardson is gearing up to write a book to criticize the Crusades, calling it responsible for the murder of the Jews. I know John Hagee has done that already.

    I will appreciate any information I can glean from the Catholic’s position on Israel – that is the most important topic for me.

    • Julie

      The Church sees the Jewish people as God’s chosen and that it recognizes God’s covenant with Israel and the land.

      But Christ Himself foretold of the destruction of the Temple and rebuilding it in 3 days…the word, ‘Church’ meaning convocation…CCC777 It designates the assembly of those whom God’s Word “convokes”, i.e., gathers together to form the People of God, and who themselves, nourished with the Body of Christ, become the Body of Christ.

      We know that the Jews will be turned to Christ towards the end of the world, that the Lord hardened their hearts so that the Gentiles could be saved….so we cannot condemn them for rejecting Christ.

      There are those in Catholic circles who believe in Replacement Theology, where the Church replaces the Jewish people’s place with God. This is not true.

      The Church can only come forth into the world when it recognizes its origin in Judaism.

      The earliest Church was Jewish. They continued to meet in synagogues with the Orthodox Jews for close to 40 years, before disputes between them caused the Nazarene Jews, as the former called them, to be cast out. Subsequently, the Nazarene Jews stopped worshipping God on the Saturday vigil and moved their celebration to early Sunday, the 8th day of creation in their terms. The Jewish Christians fled Jerusalem and the Church of Rome was essentially Jewish Christians who had fled the Diaspora…many home churches headed by presbyters…but still saw themselves as one entity, and the Church formally founded by SS Peter and Paul when they came there and were martyred.

      As the Gentile Christians increased, the Jewish Christians took less and less a prominent place in church culture.

      But Israel is considered the priestly people of God, “called by the name of the Lord,” and “the first to hear the word of God”, the people of “elder brethren” in the faith of Abraham….the Jewish people began with Abraham….CCC63. Likewise there have been a series of covenants between the Lord and the Jewish people to end with Christ Himself…the Covenant of the Blood…good read, former Calvinist…”Consume the Word”, by Dr Scott Hahn.

      In CCC839, “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”

      The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, “the first to hear the Word of God”. The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Testament. To the Jews, “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.’

      The Jews, as we know have returned to the Promised Land, something the nuns told us in grade school that this return was stated in Scripture. And we have the Muslims who have been there 1600 years. It is most tragic. My progressive Jewish friend told me her congregation is promoting two separate countries in Israel.

      In times past, there are those in the Church who mistreated the Jews, including some popes. But those actions reflect on themselves and not on our doctrine of faith.

      Likewise, the Jewish organization, ‘Pave the Way’, had members who grew up having great dislike of Pope Pius XII. They went to the Vatican Library to look at documents to do an expose of him. Instead, they came out seeing there was no one like him who had done as much for the Jews as he did…the Concordant signed with the Nazis had nothing to do with the Jews except to allow freedom of religion for the Catholic people. Pius had first directly attempted to help the Jews and Poles and subsequently a number of deaths resulted. He had to then work quietly to help them, and he greatly treasured the Jewish people, having many living inside the Vatican during WWII. The Catholics in Germany by vast majority did not vote for Hitler. The German bishops and priests spoke out against the Nazis and a number of German priests were executed. The problem was more with a bishop of Austria who was in collusion with the Nazis, of whom Pope Pius despised.

      During the times prior to the Spanish Inquisition, Spain had been plundered for 700 years by the Muslim Moors and for a period were under dhimmitude…both Christian and Jews. When Catholic Spain finally overcame Islam, it wanted a pure, united Catholic country. There were both Jews and Muslims who feigned conversion to stay there…but the greater problem is that they committed sacrilege receiving the Eucharist without faith. To this day there are conversos..Jews who are outwardly Catholic but inwardly Jewish…even some having their own sons become priests to protect their families….now Spain is working to welcome them. The Pave the Way Organization also studied more about such past and came out of the Church wondering why it didn’t defend itself more.

      A report in Great Britain actually gave the true facts on the Jewish situation in Spain and the Dominican clergy worked very hard to exonerate the Jewish people and they were not kept in prisons but in decent quarters…the documents on the Inquisition released in August 2003….and also affirming what Catholics had long sensed…that the excesses of the Inquisition were just that…there being 2 Americans from the 1800s who put out spins that the Church killed millions of Jews…

      But there have been hurtful actions directed towards the Jews throughout history. I don’t know much about that and was not raised in an anti-Jewish family…I think the basic grief was that they rejected Christ.

      But in the Nicene Creed…it is not the Jews who killed Jesus… inspite of what some Christians in the past contradicted…we recite the Nicene Creed every Sunday since the mid 300’s….and it states it is Pontius Pilate…the world…its sins…that crucified the Lord…we all caused Jesus to be crucified.

      I dont know of any Catholic who is anti Jewish, never met any. But I think it is a problem in Eastern European countries, of whose histories i know little of.

      Back to the point that Replacement Theology is wrong…the Church can only be authentic when it comes out of Judaism…there are books out on the Biblical roots of the Mass…again, Dr Scot Hahn, ‘The Lamb’s Supper’ is a good read for a beginner.

      Roy Shoeman, http://www.salvationisfromtheJews.com is also a good site…be part of the Hebrew Catholic movement that is praying for the Hebrew rites to be included with the Latin, Greek, Marionite, and so on about 22 rites, or cultures of celebrating Mass…..

      The Hebrew Catholics are just that…www.hebrewcatholic.net who are fully Jewish and fully Catholic…and want us to study the Jewish calendar so we can see how the old Jewish feasts fulfilled the ones we celebrate today….They are highly educated people and I wish I could be in a Havorah here in my area….where we fellowship and study our Jewish roots. They want us to celebrate our Jewish roots with them.

      Hope this helps.

  • shoebat

    What’s your view of Copts?

  • ih8obama

    I have gained a better understanding of what ails the Catholic Church after reading your previous posts. You have done a more than adequate job of articulating your position and your accuracy in detailing the facts is impeccable. I would venture to say it is your zeal for truth that has opened your eyes to the deception of the Universal Church and its blind acquiescence to ecumenicism that has prompted your interest in commenting here.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    “Spiritual words’? Was real flesh on the cross or spiritual flesh? Jesus, is the WORD of God, when He speaks, nature obeys. When He said “This IS my body’, nature obeyed. Can you get sick and die from eating a piece of bread?

  • sumsrent

    Julie Labrecque…
    You disgust me with your blind defense of the satanically influenced Catholic fake church of lies and thievery which serves and bows to satanic Islam.