The Armies Of The Antichrist Are Near, And Russia Will Take The Victory (Part 2)

By Walid Shoebat (Exclusive) 



The more history unfolds the more bizarre becomes the interpretations of the Prophecy mania crowd who say that an Islamic coalition would someday partner with Russia (Ezekiel 38) and such battle by this Russian-Islamic coalition would simply be a prelude to quickly be destroyed in order to usher in the real threat, Europe (the Beast) headed by a European Antichrist. All of the sudden Christian fundamentalist Russia will unite with fundamentalist Turkey, Iran, and North Africa? This is absurd.

Its especially absurd when observing how far Christianity has permeated the infrastructures of Russian society, to the point in which Russian police officers receive holy water from priests

…and paratrooper priests who descend from the skies to bring portable churches for the soldiers:

The more serious flaw is discovered when we ask; whose side do we take as Christians. Are the problems in Damascus simply a prophetic time clock to see if Isaiah 17 is around the corner? When it comes to Syria, the United States supports the Free Syrian Army (FSA) over Bashar Al-Assad’s regime; how does attacking Syria’s Bashar Al-Assad who protects the Jewish and Christian community serve our best interests, especially since the FSA and al-Nusra are Al-Qaeda linked and are killing Christians daily? As Christians, the Church needs to look after the safety of Jews and Christians globally as Jesus in Matthew 25 demanded. So crucial is this mission it in fact determines whether we enter or enter not the Kingdom.


AL-Nusra Muslims executing their victims

AL-Nusra Muslims executing their victims




There is a tremendous price to pay when we ignore the suffering Christians. One prophecy mania ‘expert’ named Joel Rosenberg even proclaims judgment on the wrong side. Rosenberg writes, “The innocent blood shed by the Assad regime is reprehensible and heart-breaking and is setting the stage for a terrible judgment.”

These are the people Bashar al-Assad is killing

These are the people Bashar al-Assad is killing

And we ask: was it Assad or the FSA that shed the innocent blood of the Christians in Syria?

It is not new that such false teachers always take the side of the enemies of Christianity; supporting the rebels against Assad is the end of the Christians in Syria.

Christian man in Syria who had a crucifix burned on his face by Muslims

Christian man in Syria who had a crucifix burned on his face by Muslims


How is attacking Russia, Syria’s ally calling it “Gog and Magog” serves anyone’s interests but the liberals and the Islamists? What we see in the Middle East is not the end, but the beginning of an end. It is pre-mature to start making proclamations and judgments.

Standing against the protectors of Christians goes contrary to Christ’s wisdom: “So if Satan fights against himself, that will be the end of him.” (Mark 3:26)

Christ gives us a keen method how to track evil.



Rosenberg has set his eyes against Putin with the same venom as the liberals. There is little difference on how liberals view Putin than the American prophecy mania crowd. Rosenberg’s blog tracks Putin calling him “Tzar Putin” for expanding Russia’s power as if dictatorship is always of the devil and that democracy is always of God. But isn’t there something to rejoice over Russia’s progress in moving from Communism to Christianity? My son Theodore expressed his view regarding the folly of prophecy analysts:

I am elated at seeing the apostolic zeal of the Russian people, how they have arisen from the abyss of atheism, to the glory of orthodoxy. And as I am uplifted with hope on the aspiring restoration of glorious Christendom, I cannot help but laugh remembering what foolishness Joel Rosenberg spouted talking to Glenn Beck who by Christian standards is theologically a heretic, speaking against the Russian Orthodox Church and Putin as being like Gog in the Bible. I remember Beck’s empty words “… Is Putin possibly Gog? And what is he doing? What`s — what`s happening with religion in Russia now?”

Rosenberg during the interview with Beck described Putin as “Gog-esque,” and even complimented the liberal New York Times, not for any statements in which Putin was attacking Israel, but for placing Orthodox Christianity as the religion of the nation.


While some might criticize us for calling Beck a heretic,  such critique needs to review Rosenberg and Beck’s claim that Putin is “Gog-esque”, when in fact, if we apply the standards of heresy, Putin would not be considered a heretic by Orthodox standards while Beck follows the Mormon heresy; Beck publically denounced the Trinity to several evangelical leaders on his show and they still said he was “Christian”. This while all 4 verses in the Bible regarding Antichrist, all of them state that Antichrist denies the Trinity. So by biblical standards, Beck is of the spirit of Antichrist.

Also, it would be wiser to realize that the Liberal New York Times which Rosenberg compliments knows what it’s doing to advance the cause of evil and is how Rosenberg inadvertently supports the liberal agenda.




  • Charles Nick

    Gospel reading at Orthodox Church today was MT.25:31-46! A caller on Jeff Kuhner’s show called Putin a ‘Hitler’! I was so mad at the misinformed (not just that caller), that I tried to call but couldn’t get through.

    • yahshua love’s you

      Don’t worry brother they will soon see who the real dictator and his name is not Putin

  • 1Bobby8

    It was John Paul II who in 1984 consecrated Russia to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

  • H2o2Bill

    “Russian police officers receive holy water from priests” Walid are you making the claim that there is such a thing as “holy water”? Could you please show us from Scripture if your answer is yes? I still don’t get this fascination with Glenn Beck either. I hope I’m wrong, but are there that many Christians that really believe Glenn Beck has any truth concerning spiritual issues? I’m not familiar with Joel Rosenberg either. Glenn has vowed to stand with Israel but I don’t trust the man and have gotten away from listening to him. I don’t trust Putin either I certainly will keep an eye on him. I’m most curious of how he is going to approach the situation in the Ukraine once the Olympics are over.

    To anyone else here did Walid ever comment on the rumor of the Pope taking the side of the Palestinians? I have been watching for it but maybe I missed it.

    • shoebat

      H2o2Bill, I expose garbage, no matter who says it; Pope, Beck, Catholic, Evangelical, Atheist. As far as Pope being pro-Palestine, see my article “Arab Prostitutes in the Vatican”. But as far as sidetracking into whether “Holy Water”, “Holy Mary”, subject you guys love to argue over, here, this verse is taken from the Old Testament Bible-(Numbers 5:17) It reads: “And he shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and he shall cast a little earth of the pavement of the tabernacle into it.”

      So, Holy water is in the Bible and was in use and the importance of water continued well into the New Testament. I presume you will say “O, but that was Old Testament …”, that type of argumentation leaves us with a naked Gospel. I also like Holy Matrimony. My wife having come from a Catholic background culturally hates divorce. I like that. This modern evangelicalism has little culture. The first church was loaded with customs. Care to debate such topics? Just look at the oldest churches in Dura and the Catacombs and see for yourself how Christians practiced the faith.

      • H2o2Bill

        Thank you for the response, you say you expose garbage no matter who says it but I see this is the second time these same people are used as examples. Same pictures too. They do need to be exposed for who they are. Along with the entire Emergent Church movement or the Hebrew Roots movement. And the many false teachers of today.

        There are many Churches that have not bowed down and are not ever going to bow down to the moral decay and false teachings of today.

        I will also try and find the article you mention.

        “Care to debate such topics?” (Walid Shoebat) I don’t need a radio or TV show? If I do then the men I mention below can provide such things if needed it would be better on youtube. I would learn a lot from such a debate between you and one of the men I mention.

        The water in the verse was part of the Tabernacle. It may have carried over through tradition yet you are right I see no evidence of this in the New Testament. Did not Christ rebuke tradition that was not found in the Scriptures? The Tabernacle was a shadow a pattern. I
        thank you for the verse I will certainly look further into this. Maybe these things need more exposure. But you should also know I have a long list of things your going to need to explain. Like purgatory. I would like to here you and someone like Christ Pinto go for a round or two or maybe a Jacob Prasch. Do it on youtube like the debate they had with Ken Ham VS Bill Nye Don’t get me wrong I like debate too but I’m not as learned as others are on these topics. I do have some books with Esword “The Ante-Nicene Fathers” & “Creeds of Christendom”

        Look at 1Bobby8’s comment and tell me something is not wrong.

        One last thing I strongly suspect the brand of Islam the “Wake Up Project” is selling is the one converting so many Americans. I think you should consider writing an article addressing “The Wake Up Project” My Brother (a lost man) insisted on me watching a video series put out by the Wake Up Project. They have a short movie within the video series that makes the claim we believe in Jesus too and if I remember right they make the claim that their Messiah fights along side Jesus to defeat the Islamic antichrist. I know it doesn’t happen that way. This is when I was like could it be that simple Islam is antichrist? You simply more than confirmed this idea.

        I don’t agree with everything here Walid but I have not forgotten about you either. I will keep an open mind but to be honest you have a long up hill battle trying to convince Christians not to fear the RCC or to get the green light to yoke up with the RCC or like Churches.

        • 1Bobby8

          Why do Protestants fear honoring Mary? When was the last time you called Mary blessed?
          The angel Gabriel told her that she has found favor with God. (LK1:30) When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit and exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me? For as soon as I hear the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.” (LK1:41-45) Notice that Elizabeth said; “Why has this happened to me, that the MOTHER of my Lord comes to me.” Does it sound like Elizabeth is honoring Mary? It certainly does to me. Why do YOU refuse to honor the mother of our Lord H2o2Bill?
          Go to Luke1:48, where Mary says all generations will call me blessed. When was the last time you called Mary blessed H2o2Bill?
          Now go to John19:26,27 When Jesus saw his mother-and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman behold your son,” Than he said to the disciple, Behold your mother.” And from that hour he took her into his home.
          And this is why Mary is our spiritual mother.
          As for the question of purgatory, go to Mathew12:32; And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the AGE TO COME.
          Why did Jesus mention in the ‘age to come’? Unless they’re are lesser sins that can be forgiven in the ‘age to come.’
          Now go to 1Peter3:19,20; “In it he(Jesus) also went to the spirits in prison-who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.”
          Now ask yourself, those ‘spirits in prison’ that Jesus went to,were they in heaven or hell?? If they were in heaven, why were they in heaven after being disobedient? and why were they considered in prison if it was indeed heaven? If they were in hell, why was Jesus going to spirits already damned for eternity?
          Now if you go to 2 Maccabees 12:43-48, which I doubt you can, because a protestant bible is not complete and 7 books are missing (by what authority was it that Martin Luther tore out those books I will never know) you can see that the ancient Hebrews prayed for the dead.

          • shoebat

            H2o2Bill, I have emails with both Pinto (who knows very little) and Prasch, and both backed off debating us. If we share our emails with Pinto you can see a coward. These two are mouths, but you can’t see it. You don’t understand the industry as I do. Theodore has in fact a promise to debate from Pinto in which he never kept. In fact, I have emails with Prasch just from a couple weeks ago in which I clearly presented him to debate us. Trust me, there is a reason why they refuse the challenge, biblically its impossible to support their prophetic paradigm and historically they are impotent if you put them with Theodore. To your other point, since you now sprint from Holy Water to Purgatory. The nature of individuals who are anti-Catholic is simple; if one presents a case in favor of Catholics, all the opposing view does is present a machine gun and a hail of bullets on their problems with Catholics. This is exactly what you are doing. The issue of your question on Purgatory (the new bullet you fired) is simple; if one accepts the books of Maccabees as scripture, the Catholic has a point. The question should be, are the books of Maccabees Bible or not? This is a question to you. Did Jesus use the Septuagint? If so, than Maccabees is canonical. It was the Catholics who compiled which New Testament books we use. Do you disagree with Catholics choosing which N.T Books to be canonical? Yes or No. The same folks who did this accept Maccabees as Scripture. If you reject Maccabees, you will run into major problems. But here is a more important issue; while we all fight such issues, Christians die. I think you should study the story of the Samaritan who Christ honors for doing good work. The question should always be; how do we become Christ like. Debating is not a ministry, but helping the dying and the persecuted is. When I wrote Prasch two weeks ago to help a suffering brother, he simply did nothing. I contacted someone else from the Netherlands who were willing to cross the waters to help. Which of the two did God’s will? There are things you simply do not understand from out advantage point, Walid Shoebat.

          • H2o2Bill

            Walid thank you for your time. I don’t know where to start, so maybe with the idea that Christians are dying. Yes I know this is happening. We are not broken over the idea of abortion in our home country either. I was supporting this Ministry and if I thought the living God of heaven wanted me to still support I would. I WANT THE TRUTH it’s all I ever wanted on any given subject I don’t care who is who and how much back peddling I have to do. I don’t believe in a pre tribulation rapture anymore yet the Church I attend teaches such things. I’m not sure the Pastor would consider it doctrine yet I doubt anyone who taught different would be allowed to speak. In a way we would have to flat out ask him (so I need to be careful and fair). They are a KJV only Church too and for this reason I don’t join I fear the day when we go on visitation and the questions come up concerning the KJV issue. What am I to do lie? No way.

            The reason I brought up purgatory was to illustrate I have a full clip and could throw questions at you concerning the RCC for a long time. You are going to have to address every single one of them in great detail if you are going to convince me or Western Christians. The reformation happened for a reason it was about getting back to the Bible. I read the verses out of the Maccabees. Did you ever consider that is the reason they were not considered in the Cannon of Scripture? We should be able to find other verses on such a subject. If we can pray for the dead to the point of making a difference for them concerning their eternal destiny. One would think it would be covered in other parts of the Bible. But we don’t find it anywhere else. It seems the Bible is in disagreement with Maccabees, Hebrews 9:27.

            Have you tried to ask Dr James White to debate? I think he debates Catholics. I listened to him debate a KJV only believer. You wonder why I ask it because I would like to here something like this it helps bring out the truth compared to reading from one then reading from another. I would like to devote a lifetime to study all these things out but how? James White would also be better prepared for your questions concerning Cannon. I know the Bible we have in our houses are the Word of God. I also know it’s not as simple as translating your local News Paper. I know the RCC had possession of the Scriptures for a long time. They also killed people for translating them into English. I also know the invasion of Islam into the Middle East pushed some Scholars into Europe for refuge and they brought many manuscripts with them. I know we have families of manuscripts. In short translating the Bible is not an easy task nor is tracking the truth down concerning what manuscripts are the ones to be used.

            I know there is always more to the story look at what i found in a very short amount of time search this —-

            Roman Catholic and Orthodox Faith Examined and The Apocrypha.

            ((Steve Rudd

            21 reasons why the Apocrypha is not inspired:
            The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the
            Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.

            Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.

            Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.

            These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.

            They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.

            They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.

            The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection. Steve Rudd))

            Now please do tell what am I to think after reading such things and our present discussion?

            Walid are you a practicing Catholic or Orthodox if no WHY?

            Theodore are you a practicing Catholic or a Orthodox?

            One last thing I really don’t think you know what your asking. We are taught not to yoke up. You are teaching that the RCC is a legitimate denomination and at times as if they have more truth than other Evangelical Churches. I go to a IFB Church but not a member. Their roots go back to the Anabaptist.

            I will order some films from you.

            Thanks again for your time, I’m not here for trouble, I’m willing to learn. To be honest I don’t see how you can win over the Western Christian that includes me.
            Bill Jr

          • Andrew Patton

            Your statements about Trent simply aren’t true. Trent merely reaffirmed the findings of councils from the 4th century.

          • Why Go Nine when you can Goten

            Their is a huge difference between calling Mary blessed among women and worshiping her like a goddess by directing prayers to her instead of God. Peoiple should never pray to Mary, the saints, angels, or anyone else but God himself. The bible warns about worshiping the queen of heaven and Mary is not the third person of the trinity ether. Secondly the only person who messed with the bible was Constantine and the only book i can confirm is missing from the bible is the book of Jasher

            2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

            Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher?

          • H2o2Bill

            Hey what are you doing over here? Ha Ha Good to see you commenting though.

          • 1Bobby8

            Why don;t you read history, Constantine didn’t mess with the bible and didn’t start the Catholic Church…Read 1st and 2nd century Church Fathers such as Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp of Smyrna who was a disciple of John the author of the 4th gospel…You can also read Theodore Shoebat’s article at this website “Constantine didn’t invent the Catholic Church…Maybe you’ll learn something.

          • H2o2Bill

            Thanks for the response Bobby, I have the Books you mention with the Geneva translation (mine stops at verse 45 but I see what you are talking about). Never the less it’s not consider Cannon either and maybe one of the reason it is not is over this issue of praying for the dead. We find it no where else in Scripture, but we did read this, Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
            That stands in direct opposition to the idea of purgatory. There is nothing about praying for the dead or that a dead lost man get’s a second chance in the rest of Scripture.

            We see no where in the New Testament telling us to worship Mary. Christ entrusted her to others so they could care for her. John 19:26-27 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He *said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then He *said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

            Jesus also addressed her as woman,
            (Joh 2:1-4) On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus *said to Him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

            There is nothing in the New Testament or the Old about Mary being our Spiritual Mother. Please don’t try to use fear tactics either, I have nothing but admiration for saint Mary. I really don’t follow what you are trying to say when you talked about Elizabeth either.
            I have a meditation of John 1 About God becoming a man and nothing has helped me more than this one meditation. So I’m most familiar with calling Mary blessed. Words can’t express to try and explain what it meant to her being chosen by God for the bringing forth of the Messiah. With all that in mind Mary also said this, Luke 1:46-47 And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

            One more thing as long as you brought it up why does your Church call her the virgin Mary she did not die a virgin according to the Scriptures?

            I will try and get back to what you posted concerning 1st Peter. Walid has been responding to me and I consider this a chance of a life time he is really smart. I don’t want to waste the opportunity I want to respond to what his post towards me.

          • 1Bobby8

            Elizabeth in LK1:43 “And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me?” Emphasize the word “mother” Isn’t Elizabeth honoring Mary? Of course she is. What Protestants don’t understand is that Catholics don’t “worship” Mary, but honor her and put her in high esteem. She is blessed, and the fruit of her womb, which carried our Savior for 9 months, is also blessed, and was never tarnished as she remained a virgin as told by the authority and traditions of the Church that Christ himself founded. The Church that gave us the Bible. The only Church that can trace its apostolic succession back to Christ. Every other church, thousands of them, can only go back to a man that founded it. And every other church has no authority, that’s why there are thousands. Read the Church Fathers, Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp of Smyrna to name a couple. Polycarp of Smyrna was a disciple of John the author of the 4th gospel. Read their writings on how they urged the Church to listen to the Bishop. And how the bread and wine is turned to the actual Body and Blood of Christ. Learn Church history. “To know Church history is to cease being Protestant.~Cardinal Newman. Cardinal Newman was a convert to Catholicism.

          • Steve Smith

            1Bobby8 I get this worshiping Mary all the time… we call her the Most Holy Theotokos and ever virgin Mary. most protestants can’t read Greek ….. In the Greek scriptures it says ever virgin You miss a lot if you read the bible in English

          • H2o2Bill

            Mat 12:46 While he was yet speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. (Websters)

            BRETH’REN, n. plu. of brother. It is used almost exclusively in solemn and scriptural language,in the place of brothers. [See Brother.] Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary of American English

            BROTHER, n. plu. brothers or brethren. [L. frater.]
            1. A human male born of the same father and mother. A male by one of the parents only is called a half-brother, or brother of the half blood.
            2. Any one closely united; an associate; as a band of brothers.
            3. One that resembles another in manners.
            He that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster. Prov 18.
            In scripture, the term brother is applied to a kinsman by blood more remote that a son of the same parents; as in the case of Abraham and Lot, Jacob and Laban. Persons of the same profession call each other brother, as judges, clergymen, professors of religion, members of societies united in a common cause, monks and the like.
            Kings give to each other the title of brother.address their congregations by the title of brethren. In a more general sense, brother or brethren is used for man in general; all men being children of the same primitive ancestors, and forming one race of beings.
            Brother-german is a brother by the father’s and mother’s side, in contradistinction to a uterine brother, or by the mother only.
            (Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary of American English))

            Psa 69:8 I have become estranged from my brothers And an alien to my mother’s sons.

            Mat 12:46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. (NASB)

            Of unknown origin; a maiden; by implication an unmarried daughter: – virgin. ((Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
            Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890.))

            Feminine of H5958; a lass (as veiled or private): – damsel, maid, virgin. ((Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
            Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890.))

          • Steve Smith

            Matthew 1;25 states that Joseph had no marital relations with Mary “till” (ἕως οὗ ) she had borne Jesus the greek word translated till is infinitive meaning no marital relations also Jesus said “Woman, behold your son!” and to his disciple “Behold, thy mother!” if he had brothers why was she not entrusted to their care…. all of this doctrine has been settled by the

          • 1Bobby8

            Thank you Steve for this.

          • All l know is Mary will always be known as blessed, but l do not pray to her to carry my prayers back to God… I try to follow the Ten Commandments as close as l can, l pray to be forgiven of my sins and for the sinners to help them to know Jesus..Help us to help those in need and protect all who needs it…And as for being dead, l will be dead… not knowing nothing until God wakes be up, a 1000 years dead will seem like a blink of a eye when l awake, King David is still in his grave and not floating around some where waiting for heaven or hell…God has a plan and even knowing the wrath from God frighten me, but l need to put my full trust in Jesus. l am still learning a lot, l won’t judge no one for fear l will be judge by those standards… We hope to learn the truth when Jesus return…

          • richinnameonly

            And I believe we do have so much to learn at that time. All of us.

          • Wayne

            What you can also see if you go to 2 Macc. 12 is that the key sin here was idolatry. Yet, the Catholic Church teaches that idolatry, being one of the seven deadly sins, is unsolvable by “purgatory”. Their own false doctrine contradicts them! Utter nonsense.

          • 1Bobby8

            So your suggesting the authority given to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit, the Church that Christ built upon Peter the rock is “false doctrine”? Where do you get your authority from?? And don’t tell me the bible, there are tens of thousands of different interpretations all claiming to be true outside the Catholic Church…I won’t accept that.

          • Wayne

            Yes, Im telling you that this doctrine (among many others) is false doctrine by your beloved Catholic Church. That’s exactly what Im telling you. Whether you “accept” it or not is beyond my control. Perhaps you would do better to explain how idolatry is one of the “seven deadly sins” unsolvable by purgatory, yet they use this passage to teach the false doctrine of purgatory?

          • 1Bobby8

            Where is it said that purgatory is a “false doctrine”??? Where is your authority to call it a “false doctrine”??? Or are you calling it false on your own???

          • Wayne

            Its NOT SUPPORTED SCRIPTURALLY! Unless of course you can show me that the finished work of Messiah on the Cross isn’t good enough, thus one also needs a period of purging for their own sins before they can enter heaven. If you can show me how the Cross of Christ only went half-way, then by all means do it.

          • 1Bobby8

            Explain Mathew 12:32 implying lesser sins can be forgiven in the next world. And after pondering that, go to 1Peter3:19,20 and ask yourself where those spirits in prison are…By the way those Sacred Scriptures you speak about was brought to you by the Catholic Church. The letter of Pope Innocent in 405 officially listed the 46 books of the Old Testament and 27 books in the New Testament. The Council of Florence definitively established the official list of those books…Contrary to the belief by most protestants that the Bible just fell from the sky.

          • Wayne

            Mt 12:32 doesn’t imply lesser sins will be forgiven in the next age, but rather this specific sin of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost will never be forgivable, period. On 1 Pet. 3:19, the word for “preached” here doesn’t mean to “preach the Gospel”, it is a different word in the Greek that simply means “to make a proclamation”. When Jesus died, His Spirit descended into the righteous side of Sheol, Abrahams Bosom, and “preached” (made the proclamation) that His death now guarantees the judgment of the unsaved.

            You are trying to read your own view into the text, rather than let the text speak for itself. And the “Pope” didn’t “give” us anything by way of Scripture! True Scripture was recognized by the Apostles, as well as the churches, long before any council was held. The only thing these early councils did was affirm what the Christians had already recognized as Scripture!

          • Wayne

            Im busy, but let me put it this way: The early councils did not “decide” what O.T. books were considered Scripture, as what was accepted and what was not, had been decided long before your Pope’s came along. The early councils that were held, only re-affirmed what N.T. writings were already considered Scripture by early Christians. The Apocryphal books were never considered to be inspired by Jesus, the Apostles, the N.T. writers, or early believers. As you noted, these uninspired books were not recognized until much later (405 B.C.), and even later, the council of Florence! You might as well add the gnostic gospels to your list of Scripture!

          • 1Bobby8

            He preached to the souls in prison who disobeyed God in the times of Noah, where were those souls?? And what does Jesus mean that the sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the world to come? According to you Protestants no sin is forgiven in the next world. And are you applying that there was another Church that gave us the Bible?? If that’s the case where did that Church disappear to for 1,500 years? It was the Catholic Church that weeded out heretics such as the Gnostic gospels… READ YOUR HISTORY!!

          • Wayne

            In the context of the passage, its the fallen angels of Gen. 6 who tried to thwart the plan of God. To be as basic as I can, there was a good side, and a bad side to Sheol. The good side was Abrahams Bosom, where souls of O.T. saints resided prior to the Cross. But there was also a bad side, between which was an impassable gulf. Those on the good side could converse with those on the bad, and vice versa, but the gulf could not be crossed. Again, the word for “preached” here is “to make a proclamation”. Jesus didn’t go down to the bad side of Sheol to preach the Gospel. He went down to Abraham’s Bosom and made the proclamation to the unsaved side of Sheol that the Satanic attempt to corrupt the Seed of the Woman had failed, and their judgment was sure. As bad as you want purgatory to be in that verse, its just not there, nor is the false doctrine supported elsewhere in Scripture.

            As for the sin against the Holy Spirit, quite frankly, I’ve got other things to do than give a long run down of what that is. Nevertheless, you keep implying things that the passage does NOT say. And Im not implying “another church” gave us the Bible. Im simply demanding that the Catholic Church most certainly did NOT! Again, the only thing the early councils did, was agree with the Christian community as a whole, in what was inspired, and what wasn’t. “Catholic Church that weeded out heretics…..” HAHAHAHA! Good one! READ YOUR BIBLE!

          • 1Bobby8

            As for you saying there is no purgatory based on scripture is only your own opinion with no authority based on your own arrogant interpretation. You are basically your own pope claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit, when tens of thousands of others also claim to be guided by the same Spirit but coming up with different interpretations as evidence of the tens of thousands of Protestant denominations outside the Church that Christ founded which is the Catholic Church. The Bible you read was put together by the Catholic Church. There was no other church. No other church that was there and suddenly disappeared after it gave us the Bible. The Catholic Church can trace its roots back to Christ with apostolic succession. Read the Church Fathers for yourself if you don’t believe me. I was an unbeliever like you until I read the writings of those 1st and 2nd century saints…. I leave you with this; Protestants are bible centered; while Catholics are Christ centered.

          • Wayne

            Arrogant interpretation? You mean because I fully trust the work of Christ on the Cross, rather than myself, to atone for my sins? LOL. You are the one with the arrogant interpretation! And you call yourself “Christ centered”? Whatever 1Bobby8. Good luck with all that!

            P.S. Yes, I am my own pope, and Christ is my High Priest.

            And hey, if you see Ignatius in purgatory, tell him I said hello!

          • 1Bobby8

            Yes arrogant interpretation, because your interpretation carries the same weight as tens of thousands of Protestants with different interpretations as evidence of the tens of thousands of different Protestant denominations all claiming to have the Holy Spirit with them and all claiming to have the truth. Christ wanted One Church, and He wanted to be One with that Church as He is One with the Father…Protestants have made a mockery of that.

          • H2o2Bill

            The difference is Catholics believe all authority rest upon the Church with the Pope able to make special decisions and rulings to the point of being flawless. Well for one he is not flawless and two, the authority is in the Scripture not the Catholic Church.

            Rom 3:10-28 As it is written: “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE; (11) THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD. (12) THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE.” (13) “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN TOMB; WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY HAVE PRACTICED DECEIT”; “THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”; (14) “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS.” (15) “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD; (16) DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR WAYS; (17) AND THE WAY OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.” (18) “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.” (19) Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (20) Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (21) But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, (22) even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; (23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, (25) whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, (26) to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. (28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. ((NASB)) Capital letters indicate a quote from the Old Testament.

            (2Ti 3:16-17) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

            Mat_23:9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

            (1Ti 4:1-6) Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.

            Please consider the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

            John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

            I’m not here to try and win some debate as if this is a contest. I do like to learn but more importantly I like to help people.

            Jesus said “unless you are born again” you can’t see the kingdom of God.

            The Messiah Christ Jesus said that so I ask you have you been born again Bobby?

          • 1Bobby8

            The pope’s infallibility is probably one of the most misunderstood by protestants. The pope is infallible when it comes to faith and morals ONLY. He can be a sinful man (and their have been sinful popes in the past) but when sitting on the chair of Peter, he is infallible.
            As far as calling no man father, that is not to be taken literally, as throughout the bible where mere men were called fathers. Gen45:8, Job29:16, Is22:20,21. In 2Kings 2:12 Elisa cries out, “My father, my father!” to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind. Later Elisha himself is called father by the king of Israel.(6:21) Steven in Acts7:2 refers to our father Abraham. In Romans 9:10 Paul speaks of our father Isaac. Jesus was criticizing Jewish leaders who love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues. He was responding to the Pharisees proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige. He also said call no man teacher, does that mean we can’t call anyone teacher or rabbi? Of course not. Jesus also said if the eye causes you to sin to pluck it out. Have you plucked any of your eyes out?
            Being “born again” is to die to the self and being reborn in Christ. Throw away the old self and put on the new. The armor of Christ. Have I been reborn? I’m still a very flawed person, but if you knew who I was and what I am now, I would say yes.

          • Andrew Patton

            You claim to be Christ-centered and trust fully in Him and His Cross, but you do not eat His Flesh and drink His Blood as He commanded. Sounds to me like you think obeying Jesus diminishes His work.

          • Wayne

            And it sounds to me like you are a cannibal! Oh, I know, you so badly now want to start quoting Scripture from John 6. Go ahead if it makes you feel better, but you will be wasting your time like ole Woody. I’ll just ask you if you eat rocks too? Remember? That rock in the wilderness was Christ (1 Cor.10:4), so I assume you turn rocks into Jesus’ flesh and eat them as well.

            Just dont even get me started on the cannibalistic nature of “transubstantiation”. You might as well go bark up another tree, Andrew. Im about done jousting with you catholics and your false dogma. No matter how much I tell you the truth, it wont matter until you decide for yourself to come to the knowledge of the truth. If not, then have fun in “purgatory”. 😉

          • 1Bobby8

            And a matter of fact, Ignatius of Antioch coined the term “Catholic” for the Church as far back as 100ad.

          • Andrew Patton

            The councils addressed the matter precisely because the Christian community as a whole WASN’T in agreement about what was inspired and what wasn’t. The Epistles of Clement, the Didache, and a few other books were read in churches as though they were Scripture, and some doubted the inspiration of 2 John, 3 John and Revelation.

          • Andrew Patton

            Deliberate idolatry is indeed a mortal sin, and whosoever dies in a state of mortal sin shall indeed be condemned to Hell. That said, it is not for us to judge between deliberate idolatry and ignorant superstition, nor for us to declare that these men did not repent as they were dying. Thus, we grant them the benefit of the doubt and pray for them, knowing that even if these men are beyond help, God will not let our prayers be in vain, but rather apply them to the benefit of other poor souls in Purgatory.

          • Wayne

            More of the same old false catholic dogma, Andrew. Either Christ’s Atonement was perfectly complete and sufficient to save one from their sins, or it wasnt! According to the Scriptures, it certainly was (and this is where I stand, saved by the Blood of Christ), and the belief in that is the ONLY thing that will save one from hell fire. There is no in between (purgatory).

      • Steve Smith

        Walid I think these problems come up because Christians in the west do not have a Christian culture . Christianity to us is not a label but a way of life, you have to live it and DO SOMETHING WITH IT. The angel that came down and disturbed the water at the pool at Bethesda, The Holy Sprit that moved over the face of the deep are other parts of scripture we get holy water from as well as Holy Tradition the oral history of the church. I posted the blessing of weapons so people can see how Christian we are

  • yahshua love’s you

    Joel Rosenberg needs to take a good look at the worlds map it’s unbelievable how some people will stick by what they have heard by so and such preacher or teacher instead of what has been written may Yahweh open the eyes of meany to understand his holy scripture

  • koko roko

    I think that communism is a magical term for you. As maybe for most americans. Are you traying to say that in communism people are spiritualy at the gates of hell and leaving communism makes them automaticly holy, especially when they surround themselves with preists( people in positions of authority)? There is only one lesson from history and it teaches that great politics is a game of interests. There is no place for sentiments. Russia is playing great politics.

  • sumsrent

    Walid says in the article…

    “Beck publically denounced the Trinity to several evangelical leaders on his show and they still said he was “Christian”.”
    And this is sad… it’s gotten to the point where even Christians struggle with defining what a Christian is…
    Off to part 3

    • H2o2Bill

      Hey I was hoping I might talk you into coming over and doing some posting at TruNews? I think we have a few that might relate to your incites.


  • Andrew Patton

    Depends on what you’re calling a ritual. Exorcisms are quite important, and Baptism and the Eucharist are infinitely more so.

  • Dr.Pradip Mathew

    Like to Know which country is the present day Gog and Magog

    • H2o2Bill

      Did you read the article? Some say it is Russia some say it’s Turkey.

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