Archeologists Discovered The Place Where Goliath Lived, Yet Ancient Goliaths Discovered In Israel Prove The Bible

By Walid Shoebat

Archaeologists at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University announced last week the discovery of a massive gate and other fortifications in the ruins of Gath, the hometown of the Bible’s Goliath. The ancient gate is one of the largest ever discovered in Israel and evidence of the Philistine city’s power in the 10th and ninth centuries B.C.E. Gath even made a brief appearance in the Bible when David, Goliath’s slayer and future king of Israel, “acted like a madman, making marks on the doors of the gate and letting saliva run down his beard.” While such a discovery adds much credibility to the Bible, but what about discovering Goliath? Are we awaiting to discover a skeletal remains of a man so huge who will baffle scientists? Fact is, they have discovered several Goliaths in Israel and elsewhere that match biblical description. And just as the Bible described giants or what evolutionists call “Neanderthals,” these Goliath bones were buried side by side with humans as found on Mount Carmel and other locations in Israel and elsewhere in the world.

For example, Mugharet el-Zuttiyeh (“Cave of the Robbers”), and Es Skhul (meaning kids), paleo-anthropologists tell us, is a “prehistoric” archaeological site in Upper GalileeIsrael which also included both the alleged “moderns” and the so-called “Neanderthals” of the region.

Es Skhul (meaning kids) (Arabic: السخول‎) is a cave site situated c. 20 kilometers south of the city of Haifa, Israel, and c. 3 kilometers from the Mediterranean Sea. The prehistoric site, was first excavated by Dorothy Garrod in the summer of 1928. The excavations revealed the first evidence of the late Epipalaeolithic Natufian culture, characterised by the presence of abundant microliths, human burials and ground stone tools. Skhul also represents one area where Neanderthals. The cave also has Middle Palaeolithic layers. The remains found at Es Skhul, together with those found at the Wadi el-Mughara Caves and Mugharet el-Zuttiyeh, were classified in 1939 by Arthur Keith and Theodore D. McCown as Palaeoanthropus palestinensis, a descendent of Homo heidelbergensis.

In 1961, a Japanese team digging in a cave in the Wadi Amud about 31 miles from Mt. Carmel near the Sea of Galilee, discovered a shattered Neandertal adult skeleton so high up in the stratigraphy that it had Upper Paleolithic artifacts and even pottery associated with it. The youngest were radiocarbon dates of 5710 years. He was a robust man with a cranial capacity (brain size) of 1740 ml in volume. A huge skull by modern standards. Consider that modern men and women are between 1200 and 1500 ml.

45105342_skhul_spl_long

 

When it comes to the giant Goliath, he causes lots of controversy, especially between creationists and evolutionists, but the fact that the Bible mentions them before paleo-anthropologists discovered them makes a clear case that the Bible was right.

It is when it comes to giants that exaggerations are found everywhere. There are the conspiracy theorists who post exaggerated photoshopped images. Then we have the Nephilim mania claiming that fallen angels married into humans. The biblical “Nephilim” were giants, but not the ridiculous images. Giants were huge in the sense of their body mass and capabilities. Goliath in the Bible was “six cubits and a span” in height (First Samuel 17:4) – over nine feet tall. Goliath wasn’t the tallest. The tallest Neanderthal was discovered by the anthropologist Georges Vacher de Lapouge at the Bronze Age cemetery of Castelnau-le-Lez, France. The height of this giant was estimated at about 11 ft 6 dated to the Neolithic period.

Then we have the evolutionists, another exaggeration who initially separated what they termed “Neanderthals” from regular human beings: Goliaths. These had thick heavy bones with markings of powerful muscles and were at least 30% larger than an average man and of great muscular strength capable of enormous exertion and endurance. They had low foreheads, protruding brows, and large noses with broad nostrils and were generally meat eaters.

car4 copy

nean6

facial reconstruction of Neanderthal (Goliaths)

One of the things that convinced me about Scriptures was that prior to my conversion from Islam to Christianity, I regularly visited the Rockefeller Museum were I was glued to watch two fascinating skeletons displayed side by side. One was of an ancient Canaanite woman next to one of these magnificent robust huge skeletons dug from Mount Carmel. The size of this skeleton was quite amazing but was rarely if ever discussed in major publications.

human_skul_640

This skeleton can easily measure over seven feet tall. Giants are not what is seen in fiction. When it comes to the Bible and it’s ancient writers, a mountain from their sense would be a hill in modern western sense. Mount Moriah, Mount Gerezim and Mount Ebal, for example, are simply hills, yet they are called mountains in the Bible. Rivers are the same. The Jordan River by western standards is a creek. And so are the giant Goliaths, I hate to call them Neanderthals, they are simply seven to twelve feet tall human beings, just as the Bible said and just as we dig out from ancient burial sites.

Mount Ebal and Mt. Gerizim looking west.

Mount Ebal and Mt. Gerizim looking west.

Jordan-River-baptism-at-Yardenit-baptismal-site-tb011406482

The Jordan River

Goliaths (Neanderthals) actually proves how accurate the Bible is. When science tries to dismiss the Bible, in the end the Bible, like an anvil, crushes all hammers, especially when the Bible makes strange claims that the modern evolutionist dispute. To provide an example, lets assume that the Bible said that cows originally had wings. This should be a fair comparison since evolutionists claim that whales (mammals) came from cows (also mammals). It is this type of scenario that baffles scientists who scoffed at the idea that a snake originally had legs. Then came the world’s first four legged known snake when paleo-anthropologists discovered Tetrapodophis amplectus in Brazil. The discovery proved that snakes walked on foot, instead of crawling on their bellies which is exactly what the Bible declared in Genesis 3:14.

s2

This is a close up of Tetrapodophis amplectus (four legged snake)

To say that snakes had legs was like saying that cows had wings, except such an amazing unusual claim was made by the Bible and not paleo-anthropologists. The test of time proved no fossil records for the evolutionist to prove that a whale comes from a cow, yet the same test proved by fossil records that believing in the Bible was simple common sense, the snake had legs.

The question that begs an answer is how did Moses and Joshua (who are believed to have written Genesis) knew that snakes had legs and that we had seven to twelve foot tall giants? Remember, the paleoanthropologist say  that the legged-snake fossil was millions of years old, and so was the “Neanderthal”. Moses was not even around during these times. There are only few answers: a) Moses was a paleoanthropologist, or b) he was simply a perfect guesser, or c) giants where there at the time of Moses or d) both, “c” plus Moses had good connections with the one who authored everything: God.

The Bible busts Evolutionists myth who at one-point-in-time said that Neanderthals were half monkey and half human. So when the first Nephilim (Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon) was discovered, the popular evolutionist imagination said that these were prehistoric brutes who walked like apes and became outsmarted by a more advanced species, the humans who emerged from Africa. Anatomical studies have shown Neanderthals used tools, wore jewelery, buried their dead, cared for their sick, and possibly sang or even spoke in much the same way that we do. Even more humbling, perhaps, their brains were slightly larger than ours. And as it turned out, Cro-Magnons were Caucasoid and not Negroid. Evolution was a racist theory which assumed that Africans were less intelligent beings.

The Bible, even though it was mocked at the time of such discoveries, was right, again and again, the Goliaths, as the Bible described spoke and were quite intelligent heathens whose genomes and ours (as scientists discovered) are more than 99.5 percent identical. They even tell us that people in China, Japan and other East Asian countries have about 20 percent more Neanderthal DNA than do Europeans, but they still make the mistake that they were here 150,000 years ago even though orientals only existed a few thousands of years ago. How they conclude this is questionable. Shouldn’t skeletons that are dated from 150,000 year old  seen side by side with modern human boggle the minds of the Evolutionists? The question simply debunks the dating methodologies used.

neanderthal_cromagnon

To impose evolutionary pre-supposition was debunked after World War II were Neanderthals were reexamined to have been found to be simply humans. Now they say that modern humans interbred with Neanderthals. The “two species” paleoanthropologist say “existed alongside each other to between 2,600 and 5,400 years. This treatment of the two as “separate species” with new findings showing the two existed and even intermarried should debunk Evolution. Neanderthals (Goliaths) marrying Humans is simply similar to European Australians marrying Indigenous Australian Aborigines.  Imagine thousands of years from now if they assumed that the Aborigine was hundreds of thousands years older than the European and here comes someone who excavates remains of a family where the husband was Aborigine and the wife was European, what would that do to these theorists?

It is impossible to provide proof for evolution because evolution depends on a false assumption which stems from its own Genesis claiming that a cow became whale. There is no such thing as a Neanderthal specie, these, as it was scientifically proven, were just as human as anyone else.

nean5

The trick used by paleoanthropologist is simple to explain. They always show skeletal samples that are void of other samples from all recent living people. Anatomical definitions are based on the assumption Neandertals were not modern humans so modern samples for the modern human always exclude Neandertal looking type of people. When we apply samples of Holocene and recently living Aboriginal Indigenous Australians or other peoples, it debunks this theory.  Aboriginal Indigenous Australians are each and every bit modern, just as we see certain Europeans and Russians who are stalky, robust and enormous. These skeletal samples from modern humans differ little from the so-called Neanderthals.

nea1

It is not impossible to see this everywhere, including even the Davids defeating the Goliaths. As we stated, a Giant like Goliath in the Bible was “six cubits and a span” in height – over nine feet tall. We find seven to twelve feet tall skeletons all over the world just as we find these heights in living people today. Og king of Bashan’s bedstead was nine cubits (13.5) feet. He wasn’t 13 some feet tall, but this is simply the size of his bed. His height must have been incredible just as was Goliath’s and the Goliath discovered in France. Giants in the Bible were identified as “men of a great stature” (Num 13:32). They were also called “Anakims; Which also were accounted giants (Rephaim)” (Duet 2:10). So these robust tall guys in Duet 2 were called Nephilim, Rephaim, Horims, Emims, Zamzummims and Avims. The Bible defined a giant’s average height and by this standard, we still have ample numbers of giants today.

Nikolai-Valuev_1449245c

Evander Holyfield is huge enough, but comparing him with the Russian Giant Nikolay Valuev who was 7 foot tall?

LCzUzH3

To claim hundreds of thousands year old bones is virtually impossible with the dating techniques we have. Carbon dating, while accurate, like other radiometric dating methods, requires certain assumptions that cannot be scientifically proved. These include the starting conditions, the constancy of the rate of decay, and that no material has left or entered the sample. Dinosaur bones for example, are rarely carbon dated and when they were, the dates did not show millions, but thousands of years old. In fact, the first evidence of an entirely soft-tissue crest for any dinosaur was found, yet they are dated millions of years old without being tested for carbon-14.

_71702144_65756crop

The problem with double-checking fossil discoveries is that they are rarely shared with other scientists for years, if ever, due to concerns over publishing priorities. Typically, to get full credit for a discovery, the finder must hoard the fossil for a decade or more before allowing others to study it so that he can publish first. Most anthropologists must rely only on descriptions and interpretations put forward by the discoverer of the fossils the very person who has a vested interest in proving his own theories.

Therefore, paleoanthropology finds that the field is far less objective than physics, chemistry, or even biology. Furthermore, fraud and fakery have been demonstrated many times. In a field based on little evidence and many assumptions is why we have conflicts which are common among scientists in this area.

For example, the Hamburg skull fragment, which was believed to have come from the world’s oldest German, a Neanderthal known as Hahnhöfersand Man, was actually a mere 7,500 years old, according to Oxford University’s radiocarbon dating unit. The unit established that other skulls had been wrongly dated too.

The paleo-anthropologists all lay their findings on the Evolutionary Tree. But some evolutionists are at times very candid, such as American paleoanthropologist Donald Johanson. He is known for discovering the fossil of a female hominid australopithecine known as “Lucy” (which later turned out to be a hoax). His admission says it all, that now “nobody really places a great deal of faith in any human [evolution] tree” (Morell, 1995; p.  546).

Yet, many of the paleoanthropologist arguments are over this tree, which seems to change with each new find. The reason is that construction of these trees is based on evidence that is so flimsy and fragmentary that a wide variety of interpretations is possible which in turn is a major explanation for the many heated conflicts that have characterized paleoanthropology.  There are so little hard data that most of the findings can be construed in several different ways.

But one source from way past in time has always turned to be the most reliable regardless to how far we advance into time: it is as it was, The Holy Bible.

print
  • susan

    Even on some of the most beautiful nature documentaries that describe the incredible complexity and intelligent design of earth’s creatures….they give the credit to evolution. Seriously? It’s time this flawed reasoning is pulled from our school’s textbooks. This hypothesis has failed the test.

  • Indian Christian Crusader

    Are Philistines of the bible the same as Palestinians of today ? Where did the Palestinians come from ? Are they originally Syrians or lebanese or Egyptians who moved into Israel area?

    • DeusLoVult
      • Grandmere

        Thanks, D.

        • DeusLoVult

          You’re welcome, my lady. 🙂

    • Fr Christopher P. Kelley, DD

      Philistines of the Bible were seafarers, from the area of Greece, Europeans. The pervert Roman Emperor Hadrian re-named Judea after 135AD, to wipe the name of the Jews from the map. He coined the name Palaestina, a Latin version of “Land of Philistines” — who left the area about 700 years before!
      Arabs today have no genetic link to the Europeans called Philistines, a name which comes from the Hebrew for “invaders.”

      • DeusLoVult

        Exactly. But, the “Palestinians” have one thing in common with them…both are invaders.

    • ChiRho

      It’s where the name came from, but not really the same people. The Palestinians actually share much of the same DNA as the Israelis, ironic huh? They are just a combination of people who lived in surrounding countries before the modern state of Israel was formed. The Middle East and really all over the Mediterranean, as with most major locations of long time human habitation has seen a lot of moving, trading (which leads to more than trading of objects), warring (which leads to conquering), displacing, intermarrying, etc over mellenia so a lot of genetic material is shared amongst different groups. From what I’ve studied the Phillistines came from the Greek Islands, likely Crete, or possibly a multitude of islands around the area sharing a common culture. But even back then borders were different than today. Most importantly, people around the Eastern Mediterranean and ME have been trading and moving all around there for thousands of years. The Phillistines were a sea going people and major traders. Also all of the regional powers throughout those places had outposts in all of the other areas. So really, over time there was a lot of intermingling AND sharing and adopting of culture (which includes religion) which is why God was so adament about the Hebrews not intermingling with their neighbors. God knew it would only be a matter of time before they picked up detestable practices and false gods. And even with the prohibitions we know how that turned out.

  • This Little Piggy

    DNA debunks evolution & it proves a baby is a human starting from the 1st cell. Mutations lead to disorder, malformation & cancer, not the orderly formation of new creatures.

  • RodK1975

    Oh BRAVO, Mr Shoebat… Beautiful article, thank you… Gosh I LOVE this type of stuff… Maybe I should have been a Bible archaeologist…

  • Marcos Filipe Guerra

    Little thing I forgot to tell: Carbon 14 is the best way we have to determine date. However, because of the rate of decay the more old the subject is, the more likely to get bigger variations on the date. Why? As it decays the measure of it becomes harder. In short, the variations become smaller and smaller, and even more difficult to measure. That’s why these people use the geological layers for dinos, and this is important, because they assume that evolution is a true fact, and not a simple theory. It’s a vice added to the method. An unproven theory over an unproven theory. Test them in carbon dating, and if you get like 4500 years it will be dismissed as it goes against the unproven theory of evolution, but it is regarded as a proven fact beyond criticism. Evolution is a hinderance to science. If you find something that contradicts your theory, you must revise and look for other possibilities or simply dismiss it all together and focus on more important things. For example, why do we find fossils of insects, like a dragonfly exactly like the ones we have today, only a lot more bigger? How did those insects grow that much? Was the earth subject to different air pressure a few thousand years ago? And if so, what caused it?

  • Trevor

    I don’t get the obsession over the Nephillim either. Even consulting Jewish thoughts on it didn’t settle the “controversy” in my mind. To me, Goliath is what we would call a freak of nature. He had extra digit on each of his hands and feet, and for years, scoffers said it only proves to make the Bible a source of myth. Yet, medical science soundly debunked it. There have been records of people born with extra digit around the world.

    When I see giants mentioned in the Bible, I always associate them with being tall and huge. Famed wrestler, Andre the Giant, was a mountain of a man only to die later in life due to his size.

    I am six-foot-two and to a toddler, I am seen as a giant. Put me next to a six-foot-eleven, I would be seen as short.

    Medical science also have proven that giants could be a result of a disorder within the genetic code or hormones run amok.

    • Indian Christian Crusader

      Angels can assume human form. They came to see Abraham. Paul also says, that we may even entertain angels when we are hospitable to others. Angels can assume human form, but God has restricted it now. The giants of the bible mentioned are 9 foot+, much much much bigger than you.

      • Trevor

        Just because they can take on human form DOES NOT suggest they can have sexual relations with humans!

        • DeusLoVult
          • Trevor

            Not you too!

          • DeusLoVult

            Yes, me too. Please, just read it.

          • Trevor

            Here you go, much better way than for me to exhaustively refute you.

            http://www.creationhistory.com/nephilim.shtml

          • DeusLoVult

            Sorry, I’m not buying it. It doesn’t fit. Just because they do not marry, does not mean they cannot have s*x. Not to mention their interpretation of the Nephilim makes no sense.

          • Trevor

            As far as I am concerned, men got worse as time went by since Adam and Eve were banished from Eden. Violence was the norm. God revealed in just a few verses down that He was sorry He ever made man and made a decision to wipe out mankind.

            Until Noah found favor in God’s sight and rest is history.

            So, the matter is closed and there’s no need to waste my time trying to push the bible into the realm of science fiction and fantasy.

          • DeusLoVult

            Yes, men have degraded in in every way with each passing generation. If you insist on calling it “fantasy”, so be it. Let’s agree to disagree and not speak of it again. 🙂

          • Trevor

            Let me share a story.

            I had a car for many years and always tried to take care of it, upkeep and whatnot. One day, I noticed my engine was knocking around, and it would always happen when I came to stop. It went on for several days until I finally asked a friend who knows his way around engines. He immediately said, “Spark plugs.” I protested, “I just replaced those last year.” Then he began to rattle off possibilities that got worse, more complicated. I asked a mechanic at church, explaining my situation, and his immediate answer was, “Spark plugs.” Again, I protested. He again rattled off possibilities.

            Finally, I took my car to a dealership and had them perform a diagnose. It was indeed spark plugs that went bad, and one of the distributor wires was shot as well. I could have saved $80 in labor and replacement if I had gone ahead and replaced the spark plugs.

            The lesson I learned that day – whenever it’s an issue, keep it simple. That’s something I try to apply in everyday situations, and when it comes to the Scriptures, I try to apply that as well.

            In this case, I believe that the Lord made plain who the Nephilim were, and the story prior to the Flood made it clear that God was willing to wipe the earth of mankind with the flood because of the continuous violence being committed because of the Fall. How much more will God again do the same TODAY, this time with fire? God didn’t talk about wiping out angels, He spoke of mankind, therefore keeping in continuity of the Genesis’ narrative, man got worse with each succession generations until God had enough.

            As long-suffering as God is, even He has His limit. Sodom and Gomorrah is another example of God’s patience hitting its limit, even with Abraham’s intervention. Israel tested God’s patience too many times, at one time in the desert, God refused to allow them into the Promised Land until the rebellious generation fell asleep.

            Today, I wonder how much longer will God’s patience be in place until He turns to the Son and say, “Go and redeem My children.”

          • DeusLoVult

            Not long to wait, I think. Very soon. We mustn’t be too impatient in waiting for Jesus’ return. All we can do now, is do our best to carry out His work, in the meantime. We must endure.

          • Trevor

            Indeed.

            I think the Lord is telling us, as subtlety as possible, “Get your house in order, I am coming son.”

          • DeusLoVult

            I agree. It’s rather incredible isn’t it, to be living in the End Times….never thought I would be here.

          • Trevor

            Yes, sir, it is, and so damn sobering at the same time.

            I feel so unworthy.

          • DeusLoVult

            So do I…I’ve never done anything to deserve this honor….I know that. I often wonder why I would ever be chosen to live now….I guess God knows much more about ourselves than we do…that is a comforting thought.

          • andrea

            That is funny your reaction.

  • DeusLoVult

    I don’t know……I’ve always believed that the Nephilim (Fallen Ones, I believe) were the result of Angels and humans interbreeding. There are plenty of peoples who have stories of giants eating people whole. On Easter Island, the largest statue weighs 200 tons….there is no way humans could have hoisted that upright. Not to mention the pyramids….I hear they also found a giant sarcophagus under one of them.

    • RodK1975

      I agree DLV… though I respect differing opinions on the matter, I think there’s way more to the issue than most people think..

      • DeusLoVult

        So do I. There just seems to be too much evidence otherwise, to suggest that it’s simply a matter of ‘freaks of nature’. Yes, there are other opinions, and certainly, they are not ludicrous, but I don’t think they quite fit the bill.

        • OrthodoxKGC2015

          I’m pretty much of the same opinion as well, although my opinions on the Angels themselves are perhaps a bit eccentric. I am in good company though on that, with Tertullian and John Milton. When the Orthodox Church calls them the ‘Bodiless Powers’, I believe it in the same sense as ‘Imperceptible usually to human senses’, not non-material. Thus to me, not only are angels then quite material, but also gendered and like humans in many ways, different in many others.

          • DeusLoVult

            I don’t know about the genders….I’m not ruling it out though. I also believe dragons might have been real, as well as many other mythological creatures.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            I’m a rather simple fellow these days; when I read my Septuagint OT, and read there of things like Dragons and Unicorns and other creatures, I simply believe. The Christianity of today has become a bloodless and rationalist affair, a thing of the head divorced from reality instead of coming from the heart. So it’s simple to me; Fallen Angels interbred with humans, and produced a hybrid people, whether you want to call them ‘neanderthals’ and other types like ‘Boskop Man’, it matters little to me.

            And it even fits the Islamic Antichrist narrative, with the Muslim belief in the Jinn blinding them in the End Times to the renewed actions of the Nephilim.

          • DeusLoVult

            I believe also, that the UFOs are piloted by demon/human hybrids, and that our government probably works with them, unfortunately. But I agree with you, about the rationalist nature of modern Christianity. It’s quite detestable.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            The UFO phenomena is definitely connected in my opinion to the End Times Satanic deception.

          • DeusLoVult

            Absolutely, but it’s more than that…if I can ask you to read something, on their activities….

            http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_grudge_bluebook1.htm

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            I am aware of English and Lear and Bill Cooper and the others, DLV. There are things I do not discuss, ever, and while this phenomena is not one of those things completely, my range of things I do discuss on it is limited.

            These ‘crashes’ enabled a kind of ‘Trojan Horse’ into human civilization, which combined with other Satanic deceptions, threatens both the physical and spiritual extinction of humanity, quite literally.

            The ‘Children of the Serpent’ do exist. We share the world with Them. They have been wiped out before, and they resurface with the aid of forbidden knowledge and unholy rites. All that being said; they are impotent in the face of true faith in Jesus Christ.

          • DeusLoVult

            Indeed, they cannot contest the power of God. We live in a much darker world than most would ever believe though.
            Why not discuss it, if I may ask?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Knowledge is a heavy spiritual responsibility, and mere curiosity (which isn’t a bad thing itself) isn’t enough to reveal things. It should suffice that with Scripture and the Holy Fathers, illumined by the Holy Spirit, one can know clearly the Enemy and his devices, without ‘knowing’ secret information from hidden elites.

            There are no ‘Aliens’. That is the Deception. How does it fit with the Islamic Antichrist? Easily, in fact.

          • DeusLoVult

            I know. Have you ever researched Iapetus, the moon?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Yes, and to me it does not appear to be a natural object upon close examination.

          • DeusLoVult

            Definitely not….I wonder if maybe it is a station for demonic entities.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Or the other, heavenly kind. But at any rate, we know as Christians that there is a war, and we know the sides, and the Winner.

            I am retiring for the evening; but God bless you my friend,

            OKGC

          • DeusLoVult

            Alright OA. I hope to speak with you again soon. God bless you, and take care friend. 🙂

          • andrea

            Mj12 sweet guy is what they are called. The alien/daemons working with the the government.

          • DeusLoVult

            Indeed they are, my lady. What do you know?

          • andrea

            Carolyn Hamletts site beyond the physcial realm is her testimony she has worked with them. This is the way I see it. Every since satan and his minions have been kicked to the earth they have all done different things with human beings to give them power and created many things. I believe they still mate to this date with human beings. I don’t put anything beyond what they do.I am 50 but satan has been here of course since God created him so much we don’t know. I go with that thinking. Her site has many things on it but she has lived this stuff before becoming a Christian and was born into. I have a lot to say but some on the site not all don’t think out of 3 rd dimension world as they call it.

          • andrea

            God uses human for his work as well as satan.

          • DeusLoVult

            I know, my lady. I do not think they breed with humans in the traditional sense…things I have read. But more on that later. I must leave now, I regret to inform you. Take care, we will speak again later. 🙂

          • andrea

            O. K.

  • Gath was gone and now it’s back… soon it will be from the Palestinians.

    (1Sa 6:17) And these are the golden emerods which the Philistines returned for a trespass offering unto the LORD; for Ashdod one, for Gaza one, for Askelon one, for Gath one, for Ekron one;

    • DeusLoVult

      You should also, see the article I posted to Indian Christian Crusader. Palestinians are not the Philistines.

      • We shall see..

  • DeusLoVult

    Mansi peoples, tell of Giants who ate three people at a time. The only part where I disagree with you, is that angels bred with man in Exodus. I personally believe that some of the Nephilim escaped the Flood, and those seen in Exodus, were of a further generation. Hence, why they were smaller.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      “All creatures that moved on the earth perished….as well as all humankind. Everything on dry land with the breath of life in its nostrils died. The Lord wiped out every being on earth: human beings and animals…Only Noah and those with him in the ark were left.” Gen 7:21-23. To believe that the Nephilim escaped the flood is to deny the clear teaching of scripture.

      • DeusLoVult

        Alright, then Indian is right, they bred more of them. Thank you for the correction, my lady. 🙂

        • ChiRho

          Or the wives of Noah’s sons carried some of that DNA in them. Not that I’m convinced that’s the case, but it could be the case.

          • DeusLoVult

            Possible…not sure either. Have you seen Chuck Missler’s works on the Nephilim?

          • ChiRho

            No

          • DeusLoVult

            They were very interesting…I think you might be able to find them on youtube.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            So God saved these wives to preserve the ‘Nephilim DNA’ as you suppose, to populate the earth? Why haven’t genetic scientists discovered this? Why is the blood of Jesus the only blood tested that does not yield a DNA profile?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            The Nephilim bloodline was preserved, in my opinion, to give the Children of Israel beings of Satan to destroy when they came to inherit the Holy Land. If any continue to exist, or are re-created, I think it will be so as to aid in an End Times ‘Alien/Jinn’ deception so as to bring people to follow the Islamic Antichrist. If these evil beings are accepted by Muslims as ‘Dabbah’ and ‘Jinn’, their evil will be disguised as Islamic good, as the ‘Dabbah’ and the ‘Jinn’ are said by Muslims to be beings who can and do convert to Islam….

          • DeusLoVult

            ….I remember…doesn’t the Antichrist claim to be an alien?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            This is one of the newer ideas which I don’t accept really, but it wouldn’t surprise me totally if the Islamic Mahdi were one who they’d still believe in, were he to be of partial ‘Dabbah’ or ‘Jinn’ /human hybrid ancestry.

          • DeusLoVult

            I don’t know what Jinn and Dabbah are…any relation to the Nephilim?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            ‘Dabbah’ means ‘Beast’ in Arabic I think, and in the Islamic version of the End Times, a weird humanoid creature, but Muslim and from Allah, called the ‘Dabbah’ will mark all the Muslims with a sign…

            The ‘Jinn’ are creatures of ‘smokeless fire’ in Islam who live in this world in their own societies, who are where we get the ‘Genies’ of popular myth. They are said by Muslims to be able to convert to Islam.

            I think there is enough room in these fables for a Satanic deception, to ‘explain’ the demonic ‘miracles’ and visitations of the End Times to the foolish Muslims, and deceive them also with false ‘explanations’ of the miracles of God. So I think that there is a perfect union here in my mind at least, with those who investigate the Nephilim as with those who believe in an Islamic Antichrist.

          • DeusLoVult

            So do I. And that would make perfect sense. After all, there is only one devil, and every action he takes, is intended to convince you that he is the exact opposite.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Thank you. Mind you, i’m not stating any of this as ‘fact’, but it remains to me a sensible hypothesis given the known facts. We shall see.

          • DeusLoVult

            Oh well, I think I’ve successfully convinced several people on this site that I’m insane. Just a normal day for me then.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Insanity and foolishness in the eyes of the world is sometimes right-mindedness and wisdom with God. Be prepared to be called ‘crazy’ and ‘foolish’ many times on your journey to Him.

          • DeusLoVult

            I suppose that’s correct. Thing is…they might have something there. lol But so do I, I think.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            A great deal of modern categories regarding mental health were invented by people who were so mad as to affirm that there is no God and only Matter exists, remember that, lol.

          • DeusLoVult

            lol That’s also true. Maybe I’m like Edgar Allen Poe, “I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.” lol

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Love Poe, lol. And then another favorite from my fave Blaise Pascal, who wrote that ‘Man is so mad that to not be mad and be sane is yet another form of madness.’

          • DeusLoVult

            lol So true. I like this too. “There’s a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.” Oscar Levant.

          • andrea

            Where are you coming from? Thinking wise? I am curious. What’s your belief of all this and have you had any personal experiences. I don’t think you are insane but there is more to you.

          • DeusLoVult

            if you refer to my beliefs regarding the digital nature of our universe, my lady, it is based on observations I (and others) have made about the intriguing physical and mathematical properties of Creation. If you wish me to elaborate, I shall. 🙂

          • andrea

            Don’t forget they have technology all around the world that they can make a Saviour appear specifically for the area. Mahdi, Jesus, Buddha. They said they make like 5 plans for a goal. Not all plans work. They present them to see how we react. A time of great deception from the father of lies though that’s for sure. Who knows?

          • DeusLoVult

            I don’t know what you are talking about, my lady….could you explain please?

          • Grandmere

            Neither does she.

          • andrea

            You are something to be desired. Do you read anything else than Walid Shoebats site don’t you have anyone else to argue with?

          • Grandmere

            I’m not arguing. I haven’t called names. Like some others, I have read and You Tubed on a lot of these theories out there. I just don’t obsess on them. When someone pushes bloodlines, reptilians etc. I don’t call them a nut, but I might poke a little fun here and there.

          • andrea

            I don’t know about them either but according to Carolyn the nephillim are in on it. When I read Enoch it said the offspring of the fallen and angels and the women after the children died they remain spirits on this earth since they were half and half.

          • DeusLoVult

            My lady, the souls remained because they were demons, not because they were half and half. God pronounced them to be evil.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Do you believe that God implants the soul into each human?

          • DeusLoVult

            That’s a good question, my lady. I do not know the answer, as I know not, the properties of the soul.

          • DeusLoVult

            That’s a good question, my lady. I do not know the answer, as I know not, the properties of the soul.

          • Grandmere

            Well if Carolyn said so……………….

          • andrea

            Must have been 5:00 p.m. Glad you didn’t disappoint. You must be one miserable old sap.

          • andrea

            I bet you sit there with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in another.

          • Grandmere

            Now that would make it kind of hard for me to type.

          • andrea

            . From my understanding technology will be used to bring the so called Christ in. Hence project blue beam. It calls for a Big Bang then with their technology he will be ushered in. Then we shall see the externalization of the hireachy. This is from those who help set up the nwo side spiritual side explain it. Yes they do work with those beings you are talking about. I feel like when Jesus said to nicodemus you teach what you don’t know. So I am just telling you from Carolyn hamlett who was one of the families who helped set up the u.n. This is the plan. Also the a.c. Or Christ as they called him was conceived by 5th fire initiation. Carolyn Hamletts blog Beyond the Physcial Realm section The Chosen Christ will tell you about it. I will have my son put links because when I try it doesn’t work.

          • Steve Smith

            grounded, orthodox don’t belive in aliens, that is a demonic deception. find the book orthodoxy and the religen of the future.by fr rose.

          • DeusLoVult

            I don’t believe in aliens either. I was simply asking if the Antichrist claimed to be an alien.

          • Steve Smith

            that is in keeping with prelist. a demonic deception.

          • DeusLoVult

            Yes, and unfortunately, a more successful scheme of theirs.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            So they will destroy their own children? Are you prepared to kill your own children?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            What? Satan may well have populated Canaan with Giants to infest the Holy Land, so as to try to destroy the Children of Israel when they invaded, but God’s plan concerning these beings was to give the Tribes of Israel an evil to overcome or be chastised with.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            This is all balderdash. Scripture clearly states that ALL were destroyed except for Noah, his wife, their 3 sons and their sons wives – 8 were saved, none other. Only since I brought scripture to the forefront has this ‘alternative theory’ been invented – just to keep the myth alive. Does the Orthodox Church teach what you believe – which Orthodox sect do you belong to?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Deuteronomy 3:11 is my reply, that Og is there called the LAST of the Giants, the only contradiction is from a Christianity riddled with rationalism. He can only logically be called the ‘Last’ if he marks a certain periodicity in time, between pre-and-post Flood era Giants.

            Orthodoxy allows quite a latitude of theological opinion, while understanding to never innovate or to elevate those opinions to the level of doctrine or dogma. This is something little understood in the West, for obvious reasons….

            Don’t insult me by questioning me about my Orthodoxy, when some of us still know the old scores between us and Papist Old Rome. Especially myself, coming from that Ultramontane Infallibilism.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Does any of the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church – I still don’t know what branch of Orthodoxy you are – teach what you believe?

          • I won’t speak ill of a fellow Orthodox, even one from a branch outside of the canonical, but I can’t recall any Church Father discussing this. I’ve seen people like Chuck Missler discuss this, but he never seems to cite his sources. I’m open to being educated on the matter, but on first blush, I can’t recall talk of giants being taken as anything but allegorical.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            I’m pretty sure some of the Fathers had a little to say about the Giants, but as I explained to Julie above, it is mere theological opinion on my part at least, neither Trinitarian nor Christological, and so it would be vanity to raise this to any kind of doctrinal point.

            As to my canonical standing or details of my life within the Church, rest assured I have my reasons for not being so publiclly forthcoming on details. It is sufficient for me at least to know that I am an Orthodox Christian, albeit perhaps the least of my brothers and sisters…. Who yet I am very protective of in my love for them and desire for their divinization.

            I am a worker in the vineyard of the Lord, although a sluggish and sinful one, and yet for all that very happy indeed.

            Christ Forgive!

            OKGC

          • That’s fine. As I respect both you and Julie, and have no input other than what I said, I’ll let the issue continue on and I will maintain an open mind.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Thank you Rudy, I appreciate that. I’d also like you and Julie to know that I respect her as well, and it is my sincere hope that there is genuine Unity and healing of the Schism, so that there will be life from the dead in the West, so that we may stand shoulder to shoulder against Antichrist.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            I’ll add also from my faulty memory that I seem to remember the Fathers Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Ireneaus, Tatian, Clement Pope of Rome, and Tertullian being in favor of the idea of an Angelic/Human hybrid origin for the Giants, and St. John Crysostom and St. Augustine of Hippo favoring them being the result of the line of Seth breeding with the line of Cain.

            God Bless,

            OKGC

          • Steve Smith

            you are correct on this one.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Spasibo, moy Tovarich:-)!

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            I forgot to wish you a blessed and prosperous birthday. May the Lord and Our Lady continue to heal and bless you. I recall you saying that your birthday was around the date of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin which was on the 15th in the Gregorian calendar.

            I’m not sure if you follow the Julian calendar for the Dormition of the most virtuous and holy Theotokos, which the Russians and Serbs and some of the more traditional Old-Calendar Greeks.

            Some of the Middle Eastern Orthodox follow the Old Calendar too, if I’m not mistaken, except for the Antiochian? if not mistaken… whom they would celebrate on the 28th this month.

            Glory be to Our Lady and may She continue to pray for your ongoing prosperity as we pray for you! God bless you Rudy!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            If they stay to their literal reading of ‘giants’ and such, then the Beast that receives a mortal and is healed is really a gargantuan mutant Beast – and not the Islamic empire, correct?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Why would the one follow from the other? But note the roots of this Islamic foulness reaching all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia? I’m curious as to your antipathy to this Hybrid idea, unless it just stems from me being a proponent of it….

          • DeusLoVult

            She started by debating me, so it’s not just you. lol I honestly don’t know why the idea is so hard to accept, even as a plausible theory. It seems rather…normal, yet it is derided as fantasy by so many.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            It’s ok, there comes a point when such debate is silly and vain, and I think we’ve reached that point, lol. However, the best test of this and other ideas is the future. What wonders we shall see! We dry up the sources of Living Water pouring into our hearts with the searing logic of our fallible and arrogant rationalism, and we run the risk of being deceived when the time comes. I’m not ‘married’ to any mere theological opinion as such, even the idea of an ‘Islamic Antichrist’, but it’s just a reminder to myself at least, to search in all humility and repentance, prayer and fasting, and not ‘look to things too marvelous for me’ as the Psalm says.

            God Bless,

            OKGC

          • DeusLoVult

            Indeed, we have arduously scaled this mountain of arguments, and have found our efforts wasted. The air has grown thin, and there is naught to be found but an icy chill in this familiar landscape of conflict. Let us return to the base of this mountain, and perhaps, consume a tasty draught to rejuvenate ourselves. 🙂

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Lol, well said!:-). Trust me, there are more serious issues to ponder and deal with, and much that separates us who claim the name of ‘Christian’, is as nothing that separates all of us from the World in general.

            God Bless,

            OKGC

          • DeusLoVult

            Agreed. Tis of infinitely greater importance than negotiating the mountain previous. I should say that, conquering the ever present mountain of your mention, is most certainly an effort of greater peril as well, who’s scenes require hiking boots of a thicker outsole, and a wearer of steadfast durability. Long is the journey, however, unlike the last, this one is never without ample reward.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            I fancy that the heart of a poet resides within you, my friend:-). We need poets, for there are tales to tell and to remember, and a people that has lost their memory is almost nothing.

          • DeusLoVult

            I do indeed author poetry on occasion. I considered making it habitual, but the pursuit devours much of my time, which is best devoted elsewhere at this stage of my life. I doubt very much, that there will be many more stages in my life. The omens foretell a dark and treacherous future, unparalleled even by the darkest of ages, this world has so far endured. The pace of the ticking clock grows faster…..as we near the point where all that has been, must come to pass, and fade away forever. And at that point, when the mortality of our world is finally realized by all, Eternity will begin, and the souls of all who have lived, and who now live, will be forwarded to their final resting place, be it one of tranquility, or fire and brimstone.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You presume much – first, I have nothing against you, secondly, I’ve looked at the ‘issue’ from both sides, third, the logical conclusion that results from said theory necessarily demands that you and I and every other ‘human’ that exists or has existed are/were these so-called hybrids, or the resultant offspring.
            Regarding the Islamic foulness reaching back to ancient Mesopotamia – foulness on the earth has its origins in the first family, carried by the lineage of Cain – (which is why he is not listed in the lineage of Adam although he was still alive – he was not in his father’s image and likeness), whose descendants are the ‘daughters of men’ – those not in covenantal relationship with God, as were the descendants of Seth.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            1. I presume nothing; you question my affiliation as Orthodox almost unceasingly. End that, and get over the fact that I was once an Ultra-Traditionalist Ultramontane Papist, and am so no longer, but am an Orthodox Christian, believing that Church to be the Holy Catholic Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ for the salvation of Mankind. The possibility of my existence going from one position to the other offends you so obviously, that you cannot help but to make snarky passive aggressive commentary about it. You perhaps am also offended by what you see as my ‘anti-Jesuitism’, but even there you would be unfairly mistaken, as I admire to a degree the ‘Society of Jesus’ in some ways. Nor would I fit under your stereotype of hysterical Antijesuitism if I continue to read and admire and draw inspiration from Roman Catholic gentlemen like Joseph de Maistre and Juan Donoso y Cortes, who were allied to the Jesuits during a critical period historically.

            2. Care to share where you’ve ‘looked’ at the issue from both sides? You seem intransigently close-minded from the beginning, which is most curious and leads back possibly to my first point…

            3. It in no manner whatsoever logically follows that we all are now partly Angelic-Human hybrids, when we read in Scripture that all the Post-Flood Giants were exterminated by the Israelites, at least by King St. David’s time. Utterly destroyed races don’t work their DNA into other peoples, and that destruction was mandated by God to be carried out by the Israelites…. Which is easier to accept if these Canaanite tribes of Giants were partly Non-human Demonic in origin.

            4. In the interests of myself having an open mind on an Theological Opinion, i’m going to look into the ‘Line of Seth’ option of interpretation, but there is a serious reservation;

            a. There are racial implications if we are to accept the ‘line of Seth’ theory; one entire human sub-race of the species shouldn’t breed with another human sub-race ? If miscegnation was wrong then, are there circumstances where miscegnation would be wrong today?

            Just a thought.

            My suggestion at this point is that for the future, I would like to focus on our similarities and ways by which we can all work together without false reconciliations and false ‘unities’. To that end, I propose a better atmosphere of discussion in future debates.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I have never ‘questioned’ your affiliation with Orthodoxy – I have only inquired which Orthodox Church you are affiliated with – i.e., Russian, Greek, Oriental, etc. I have ‘looked’ at it from two possible angles – the line of Cain, not in covenantal relationship with God, breeding with the line of Seth, in covenantal relationship with God. I do not believe that angels are capable of conjugal relations, period – which is why Jesus stated that they neither marry nor take in marriage. Do you believe that angels are gendered? If so, are ‘female’ angels capable of conjugal union? Should we entertain the possibility amongst the angelic choir that there ‘other’ genders besides male/female? The 1/3 that followed Lucifer in rebellion are judged and damned, the 2/3 that remained in their habitation, loyal to God, are ‘saved’. To believe that angels are gendered male/female and can reproduce necessarily implies that the numbers of angels can increase, which I believe is false. Do you believe that when Jesus told the (apostate) Jews that they were of their father the devil that He meant they were his children genetically (bad DNA), or did He call them the devil’s children because they did the works of the devil? What about the exorcisms that are related to us in scripture? Were those people possessed by demonic spirits, or was their being possessed due to their DNA? Will the Anti-Christ be possessed by the Devil, or will the Anti-Christ be the Anti-Christ because of his DNA? If one’s DNA damns them, then you have a God like that espoused by Calvin and Islam.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Hi Julie, I am pressed for time, and as I mentioned earlier, I am investigating with an open mind what the Fathers said about the ‘Line of Seth/line of Cain’ hypothesis, so I ‘ll try to be brief in my replies to your questions.

            1. I have been to a number of autocephalous Orthodox churches, I am under the omphorion of the Russian Church.

            2. I do believe that Angels are gendered, I’ll get back to that later, but Zachariah 5:9 is admittedly influential to me in that regard, and male angels are male. Gender goes to who one is, more than the ‘plumbing’ and performance of natural s*xual acts leading to conception. I find it important for example that Christ Incarnated as a Man, with all the implications regarding that. Angels have Gender because of their roles, admittedly mysterious and incomplete to our curiousity.

            3. I do not follow a genetic idea of predestination, and the ‘sons of the Devil’ leading up to the personal Antichrist are all so by their wills, not their genetics.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Christ had to be ‘man’ for several reasons, first, He is the New Adam, second, only men can be Priests, third, man is the head of the woman. For you to believe and state that ‘gender’ goes to who one is more than plumbing is the exact argument that the homosexual brigades state to further their demonic aspirations for ‘equality’ in marriage, etc. I hope you will soon abandon that thesis.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Hardly abandoning it; it is quite Orthodox… A man is a man due more than to his genitalia and secondary sexual traits, ditto for women. Mind, Body, Soul. For some people to say they think and feel like the other Gender is literally errant nonsense for this reason. This is why we call God ‘Him’, even thou we know He is beyond all concepts and images ultimately, it does say something about God and Jesus Christ to ascribe Gender to Them in a Mysterious way. And certainly we shall retain our Gender in Heaven, and find much more fulfillment in our Genders without S*x there, for we will have put away childish things and the shadow and symbol of things, but attained to the True Reality.

            What people don’t have is a sinful nature, they have an inborn propensity to sin. Sin is what they and we do, not who we are.I prefer to say ‘Ancestral Sin’, rather than ‘Original Sin’ for this reason, without veering into any Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism. For Sod*mites to use the argument that some use proves nothing other than their wills are hardened to doing evil, nothing more.

            God Bless,

            OKGC

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I have never ‘questioned’ your affiliation with Orthodoxy – I have only inquired which Orthodox Church you are affiliated with – i.e., Russian, Greek, Oriental, etc. I have ‘looked’ at it from two possible angles – the line of Cain, not in covenantal relationship with God, breeding with the line of Seth, in covenantal relationship with God. I do not believe that angels are capable of conjugal relations, period – which is why Jesus stated that they neither marry nor take in marriage. Do you believe that angels are gendered? If so, are ‘female’ angels capable of conjugal union? Should we entertain the possibility amongst the angelic choir that there ‘other’ genders besides male/female? The 1/3 that followed Lucifer in rebellion are judged and damned, the 2/3 that remained in their habitation, loyal to God, are ‘saved’. To believe that angels are gendered male/female and can reproduce necessarily implies that the numbers of angels can increase, which I believe is false. Do you believe that when Jesus told the (apostate) Jews that they were of their father the devil that He meant they were his children genetically (bad DNA), or did He call them the devil’s children because they did the works of the devil? What about the exorcisms that are related to us in scripture? Were those people possessed by demonic spirits, or was their being possessed due to their DNA? Will the Anti-Christ be possessed by the Devil, or will the Anti-Christ be the Anti-Christ because of his DNA? If one’s DNA damns them, then you have a God like that espoused by Calvin and Islam.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            You might read ‘Who is the Devil, and What is an Angel” by Nicholas Corte, “Angels and Demons, A Christian Primer of the Spiritual World” by Michael Patella, and ‘Who is Satan? According to the Scriptures” by Joseph P. Kelly. If you have any books written by Orthodox that espouse the Angelic-Human Hybrid view, I will be glad to read them.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            I can only go by what a number of the Fathers have said, not unanimously, but certainly wise and good, holy men. Their opinions are not nothing.

          • That’s where the evidence leads.

          • Steve Smith

            right on brother, date myself here. sounds like the tole house bs.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            And yet, even though I likewise don’t follow the ‘toll houses’ idea, it is a theological opinion among some of the Orthodox, who are not outside the Right Belief even if they are incorrect. Some Fathers accepted the Angelic/Human hybrid idea, some did not.

          • Steve Smith

            Okg, most of what the holy fathers say is opinion along with holy tradition. I don’t depend on it for my salvation,Ihave the creed and the Liturgy for that.
            People who were never exposed to our way ov thinking walk away scratching their head.
            But, you did though me with Og thing. At first I thought you were “hanging noodles” on Julie’s ears.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            “Hanging noodles”, I like that:-). My brother, I fully admit in keeping with the spirit of repentance during this Dormition Fast, that I should be more careful to not anger and embitter others. I come from a background of family and friends who seemingly debate and argue vehemently, violently and with great feeling and emotion, yet often as not we divorce our mere ideas and opinions from a hateful clash of egos. Faith is a different matter altogether, yet It too should not be dragged through the mud either if at all possible. Anti-Trinitarians and Anti-Sacramentalists do tend to get under my skin, I freely admit, but I think everybody else is close enough in most respects.

            In Christ, Forgive!

            OKGC

          • Steve Smith

            To hang noodles on a person’s ear, is the same as”pulling my leg” or fooling or pull something over on you.
            Ok I’m a Slav so we fight like cats and dogs and argue but everything is forgiven and brotherhood over a bottle of vodka.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Lol, well since I’m part-Slav I guess that applies to me too, even the drinking (in my drinking days). I am pretty sold honestly on the ‘Human-Angel’ Hybrid idea, because the ‘Line of Seth mixing with Line of Cain’ theory has serious implications too if it happens to be correct. I will pray and read about this more.

            Thank you Steve; I appreciate your communication. On a personal note, I have been in the dumps lately because the Russian ladyfriend who has been communicating with me for a year decided to not go forwards in our relationship…. I like Russian women, what I know of them, but i’m no longer young, and nor am I a well-to-do man, and am likely never to be one. Probably for the best though; she was only a nominal Orthodox at best, from what I noticed, from a family of Atheists. I pray for her though; she’s a good woman.

            This is probably why I haven’t been online on this and other websites much lately; I’m trying to not let my blue mood affect my communications with other people. Still, I can already see that I have other options in my life.

            God Bless

            OKGC

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            We don’t have ‘branches’; the Orthodox Faith of the Holy Apostolic Catholic Church is One.

            As for the Patriarchs; I wouldn’t know, as what i’m suggesting is theological opinion that doesn’t contradict Orthodox Dogma. An example would be the historical belief among many Orthodox Christians that St. John the Apostle is still alive on Earth. Many hold it or have held that opinion in the past, and to exalt it to Dogma would be vanity, as it is neither Trinitarian nor Christological in concern. This is why the Orthodox Faith have no separate ‘Marian Dogmas’, btw, and never will.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            The Orthodox Church may not have branches, I know, it is a Communion of Orthodox in the Eastern Orthodox Church (cf the Oriental Orthodox monophysites, eg, Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, Syriac,Malankara Orthodox Syrian, etc).
            However, you do have (like the RCC) non-canonical churches not in Union, from my research I noticed the two Ukrainian Orthodox Churches with alliance to the Kiev Patriarch and another one not in union with the Moscow Patriarch, and there is a Macedonian Orthodox Church too not in communion with the Serbian or Bulgarian Church.
            This is like the of France and others in the RCC… dissent to the Magisterium of our Churches is scandalous.
            What I cannot understand how the Eastern and Oriental can go to their respective Churches but I understand it’s more of a logistical issue since there are so few of them in many parts of the world.
            Here in Sydney, there is a huge Coptic expatriate community.. many are in the professions, many doctors and specialists I’ve come across have been Coptic… very intelligent and a great asset just like the Middle Eastern Christians whom are so exemplary…. many co-operating on the ground and inter-marrying, much like many Balkan Christians did, eg, Serb-Croats (with disastrous consequences during the later Bosnian and Croatian wars for the inter-married). We pray without ceasing for a healing of the Great Schism… the only hope for the future of Christendom lies in the healing of the Apostolic Churches…
            And Marian apparitions are huge in the Orthodox but as you say you appear to have “latitude” for personal theological interpretation which I’m not so sure of, doesn’t that open you up to Protestant-like personal interpretation theology?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Thank you for your reply, willing. With your last question at the end, i’d say that considering the rulings of the Seven Ecumenical Councils on the Trinitarian and Christological heresies, there is no room for a kind of ‘protestantism’ coming forth from Orthodoxy, as the other issues are so very minor. Take for example my earlier illustration about St. John the Divine; what possible contention of a sectarian nature could exist over whether he is actually alive on Earth right now or not? And as the Trinitarian and Christological issues are solved, and the teachings of the Fathers respected, everything else falls into place.

            And yet, we know that heresies and schisms are continually developing from within the Church, leading astray the evil Christians, and if possible even the Elect would be fooled were it not for God’s enlightenment.

            So then there are two opposite tendencies battling for control of us human beings; Orthodoxy, or ‘Right Belief’ in Christ, and Heterodoxy, which is ‘right belief’ mixed in greater or lesser degrees with Error. (there is a third tendency which has been called ‘Cacodoxy’, or ‘Bad Belief’, which is of such madness as actual Satanism and so forth.

            Long story short; I do not cast out any Orthodox out of Orthodoxy, when even the authorities within the Church may disagree. Orthodoxy is coming out of a solid series of disasters calculated to destroy her, with the 20th century being the worst, and I fully expect that the greatest Tribulation is yet to come. As the Antichrist has come, all Christians will be One once again under the furious blows of the Archfiend. This is so even if there is or is not an Islamic Antichrist, or Jewish, or Hindu, or Bolshevik or N*zi Antichrist. The fear of Death and Torture will show who and what we are, as always. And false beliefs will be shown false.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            “Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb…” This verse makes it difficult to deny that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            John 15:26. This is the Truth concerning the Spirit of Truth, or else Christ would have said otherwise. Read st. Photius the Great’s ‘Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit’ for a fuller and more discerning critique than I can give.

            Matthew 3:22-30. The Lie against the Spirit of Truth, concerning Him and His Nature and Operations, can never be forgiven. We have the proof of that in the West, 10 centuries and more of proof.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            The expression “from the Father through the Son” is accepted by many Eastern Orthodox. This, in fact, led to a reunion of the Eastern Orthodox with the Catholic Church in 1439 at the Council of Florence: “The Greek prelates believed that every saint, precisely as a saint, was inspired by the Holy Spirit and therefore could not err in faith. If they expressed themselves differently, their meanings must substantially agree. . . . Once the Greeks accepted that the Latin Fathers had really written Filioque (they could not understand Latin), the issue was settled (May 29). The Greek Fathers necessarily meant the same; the faiths of the two churches were identical; union was not only possible but obligatory (June 3); and on June 8 the Latin cedula [statements of belief] on the procession [of the Spirit] was accepted by the Greek synod” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 5:972–3).

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            1. The West, the previous Orthodox Popes of Old Rome, rejected the ‘Filioque’s’ insertion into the Creed, into which both insertions and deletions had been forbidden by the Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils themselves… Until the Roman Schism that is, after which the ‘Filioque’ was inserted in the West.

            2. Even if true as a theological opinion in a certain sense-which it is not-the previous statement would still apply, forbidding it’s insertion into the Creed. Old Schismatic Rome elevates Theological Opinion to the level of Dogma, in order to psychologically compel others to accept her alleged universal authority.

            3. Pseudo-Florence was rejected by the Orthodox, under the guidance of courageous Saints like St. Mark of Ephesus.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Why aren’t they all united then?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            United in Dogma, largely self-governing, the Churches faithfully maintain the saving Medicine of Immortality.

          • Steve Smith

            to my knowlage the church dos not teach this it is a new thing to my ears. orthodox dont’t carve things in stone, sounds like the tole house b,s the bishops put a ban on talking about it.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Our buddy above doesn’t think so.

          • Grandmere

            Blue beams? The externalization of the hierarchy??? Oh, Nooo!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Fiction writers have taken the front seat in theology – who would have suspected?

          • andrea

            You wouldn’t want to read the site. Your pope suggested Catholics read The Lord of the World. That is right the one you have now. It may open your eyes to what he believes really is coming and it is not the Mahdi. I read the book pope France’s suggested.

          • andrea

            Maybe it is time for you to go to a.a.

          • Grandmere

            You first.

          • andrea

            You must deny that satan existed?

          • andrea

            People don’t like the book of Enoch but it said the nephillim would remain spirits on the earth after they died since there were half and half. Wonder if that is what they are since spirits don’t die. Jinn? Who knows

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Can’t say, but I figure that the Two Witnesses might elaborate when they come, being SS. Elijah and Enoch who never died.

          • andrea

            I agree with that.

          • ChiRho

            1)If that is the case, and I didnt say for certain just maybe, then He didn’t preserve it on purpose but out of necessity to continue humankind, and probably only traces of it, i.e. partial traits as opposed to the full sets of chromosomes that a nephalim would have.
            2)Many scientist don’t know half as much as they think about the mysteries of life. And geneticists could not know what they don’t know, if you get what I’m saying. If they don’t have a nephalum to analyze, then how could they compare our DNA to it?
            3) I cannot speak on Jesus’ DNA. If you are refering to the Shroud of Tourin then, for one it’s old and certainly not all traces of ancient blood can produce viable DNA for experimental purposes. But also I dont think we should analyze the DNA of Jesus even if we could. Some things are not meant to be known by uw in this realm.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            His blood and flesh HAVE been tested – you know that pesky problem about the Eucharist that protestants refuse to believe in spite of what Jesus said?

          • ChiRho

            Are you telling me that someone has taken the Eucharist and tested it for DNA? That is sacrilege and I would want no part of that”experiment.”

          • Julie LaBrecque

            How could a protestant consider it sacrilege – they consider that the bread and wine (or grape juice) are just symbols? What I am telling you is that there have been Eucharistic miracles in which the bread has changed to flesh and wine that has turned to blood – these have been scientifically investigated just as the Shroud has been.

          • ChiRho

            Maybe I’m not a Protestant then. I never really was hardcore Protestant, just was more in the Christian category somewhere and knew I wasn’t a Roman Catholic.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Since the info would be voluminous to provide here, just google ‘Miracle of Lanciano” (AD 700), and ‘Miracle of Buenos Aires’ (AD 1992) – this miracle was investigated by one of the scientists that studied the Shroud – world renown cardiologist and forensic scientist, Frederick Zugibe. Lanciano and Buenos Aires are just 2 – there are approx. 100 documented miracles of the Eucharist.

          • Grandmere

            I AGREE WITH YOU

    • OrthodoxKGC2015

      Jewish tradition is that Og, the future King of Bashan, was on the Ark with Noah’s family and married one of the daughters, and I think he might then have been the same as ‘Anak’, mentioned elsewhere in the Bible. Scripture could support this as Og is called the ‘last of the Giants’ there…. That is, of the original pre-flood Giants.

      • DeusLoVult

        Hmm….Thanks OA. It would certainly explain the future giants.

        • OrthodoxKGC2015

          Your welcome, and note my reply to Julie below also, as this is the way I see the bigger picture of this issue.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        1 Peter 3:20 soundly dispels this myth.

        • OrthodoxKGC2015

          No. Og wasn’t a human being, strictly speaking, but something else. Scripture clearly calls Og the ‘Last’ of his kind, when we know that there were other Giants then and later on.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Then how was he ‘on the Ark’?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Because we earlier learned from Scripture that all flesh which had the breath of life perished in the Flood outside the Ark. Therefore, Og was inside the Ark, as he indeed was flesh and had breath.

            Btw, this is also a good symbol for evil within the Church, the Ark of Salvation.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            The account of the flood refutes that!

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            You have not proved that, at all, because the Scriptures which cover the Great Flood are all over Scripture Itself, from both the OT and NT. And there are many Scripture quotes about the Giants, in Baruch, Job, Wisdom of Solomon, and many other places….

          • Grandmere

            Was This Og a stowaway? How did they miss him at feeding time? Sheesh!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Maybe he watched for the Raven, or even better, helped Noah build the altar and plant the vineyard – why not, if he was ‘there’ – Noah could probably have used a GIANT to help with the ‘work’.

          • Grandmere

            SNAP

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Wasn’t a human being, ‘strictly speaking’? He has yet to define exactly WHAT he was – all that is left is conjecture.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            It states that 8 were saved – PERIOD. Those that did not get on the ark went to purgatory, where Jesus went after his death to bring some of them to life.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            8 human beings. Og was not a human being, and was not an Animal, so was an anomaly Moses saw fit to elaborate on in Deuteronomy, not in Genesis. Scripture is of a whole with Scripture.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Either way, Og would fit into “All creatures perished”.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            He wasn’t an Animal, nor a Human, his fate is covered after the Flood, otherwise we have a contradiction in Holy Scripture, when I see no contradiction exists in reality.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            So OG, in your estimation, was not a creature?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Sure, a creature on the Ark that wasn’t human or animal.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Then what was it – and why did God help it survive by giving him a ticket on the Ark?

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            Why did God give Satan a ‘ticket’ of survival? The Mystery of Iniquity is exactly that, a Mystery. I give Glory to God even for that, so that my own self does not perish in my heedlessness, for God is the Lover of Mankind.

            Og was a Giant, a Angelic-Human hybrid which would exist only for the purposes of Evil.

          • OrthodoxKGC2015

            He wouldn’t fit with Moses specific exception in the Book of Deuteronomy chapter 3:11 for Og:-).

  • Julie LaBrecque

    So, you interpret ‘But Noah found favor with the Lord.’ to mean that Noah was not genetically corrupt? How do you interpret ‘Noah was a righteous man and blameless in his generation.’? Moses likewise was told ‘You have found favor with me.’ (Exo 34:12), and in the NT, is was Mary who was told ‘You have found favor with the Lord.” (Luke 1:30). To interpret ‘you have found favor’ as meaning that these people found favor for nothing that they did is more than a stretch of a fanciful imagination. Jesus told the apostate Jews of His day that the devil was their father (John 8:44) – does this mean there were biological descendants of Satan, or that they performed the desires of the devil?

  • ChiRho

    Brilliantly stated. And I like the engineering standpoint, it’s not used enough for this arguement.
    Yes macroevolution does not exist. No creature has suddenly become another, let alone another than can reproduce seperately. No creature suddenly grows a new appendage or a new organ that is advantageous. As you stated, all major mutations that we can observe are detrimental, or useless. And minor mutations stay just that, minor. Look at horses, donkeys, mules. Look at breeding lions and tigers, etc. Look at the definition for seperate species. Where are the animals that are so new and different that they can’t be considered the previous animal they evolved from, but are not unable to reproduce?
    It’s funny how the people that are so adament about evolution would rather displace millions of people, destroy economies, and let people starve and endure drought in an attempt to save an animal that by their own worldview should be a stepping stone towards superiority and should be naturally left alone to die off? How is it that at the same time humans are mere animals like any other, yet are so special that their impact must be thwarted, halted, and reversed or the planet and various species within it could not continue to properly function?

  • ChiRho

    Whenever you start to feel bad about those societies that were to be wiped out, look up their religious practices . . . common practices. They did terrible things. There’s a price to pay for horrific acts, and also God didn’t want those practices passed on or rekindled.

  • Trevor

    Well said, and well done.

    I have come to conclude that to disprove the Big Bang is to do a simple demonstration. Place a firecracker and a lighter a few inches apart and do not touch it, just let the firecracker be lit. According to advocates of the Big Bang, the universe was created by random chance, so in accord with mathematicians, the odds that the firecracker to be lit without intervention is astronomically high. In other word, an impossibility.

    Continuing the illustration of the Big Bang and firecracker demonstration, I would proceed to light the fuse and let it go off with a bang. Then we can reasonably conclude that in order for the universe, as vast and complicated it is, to be created, there has to be someone who intervened and kick started the Big Bang. We know that the firecracker is able to expend energy because it is packed with specific properties that react to intense kinetic energy exchange, seen with flashes and heard with noises before it disappears becoming expended gases.

    In order for God to create the universe, He had to start with the basic building blocks – the atoms themselves, and even create each properties that make up the atom – the electrons, protons, and neutrons that form an atom. Even within electrons, protons, and neutrons, God had to make each one unique so it could be an electron, a proton, and a neutron. Therefore, everything was carefully and deliberately designed with a specific purpose. I loved chemistry when I was in high school and as an adult studying electronics, it still fascinates me that God created each elements of the universe for us to use, whether it’s for good and evil.

  • Trevor

    I have read the book of Enoch and had the feeling like I needed to take a bath with bleach. Do you even know where it originated from? From Gnosticism, a group of people that were routinely condemned by the Jews and later by the Christians. They claimed to have “special knowledge” that only they had and that’s why we have so many charlatans who pass themselves off as prophets and preachers that only have the keys to unlock deeper mysteries of the Bible.

    Do you know what was happening in the days of Noah? Jesus already gave the answer, “They were marrying and giving into marrying.” In other words, they did their everyday things being unaware that doom was rapidly coming upon them. In the book of Hebrews, Noah was preaching righteousness and warning of the Flood, and many refused to listen to him.

    The reason why Noah found favor in God’s sight is not because of genetic as you claim. Rather, it’s because his father blessed him! Genesis 5:29, “This one will give us rest from our work and from the toil of our hands arising from the ground which the Lord has cursed.”

    Proverbs says, “Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit,” 18:21.

    Noah’s father actually spoke a prophetic word over Noah which shaped Noah’s life before he was able to walk! Further in Genesis, it is written, “Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God,” Genesis 6:9b.

    A few verses before, only one man had similar remark about him, and his name was Enoch, and God took him (see Gen. 5:24). What made Enoch and Noah stand apart from men who were already condemned? The simple fact they were righteousness in God’s sight. Nothing to do with genetics again. And here is a very interesting verse that rarely get discussed from the pulpit, “Then men began to call upon the name of the Lord,” Genesis 4:26b.

    The first time I read that verse my jaws came unhinged. “WAIT A MINUTE! MEN KNEW GOD’S NAME BACK THEN!?” As each generation were born, that knowledge of God began to become corrupted, which is the result of Adam and Eve’s disobedience in obeying the ONE command they had, “DON’T EAT FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL!” That was their only command and they still managed to screw up! Eve was deceived and Adam disobeyed God, then blamed it on Eve (which is probably why men from that time forward tend to blame everything on the women), and Eve blamed it on the snake while the snake smirked. Not once did Adam or Eve take ownership for their failure.

    As you succinctly put it, there is nothing new under the sun, because sin is sin is sin is sin is sin, so mankind hasn’t really changed a whole lot since the Flood. As I have learned from my 34 years on earth, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

  • Trevor

    Wow, science fiction run amok. Smh.

    • DeusLoVult

      Sometimes, you have to ask yourself….what IS science fiction? How about a mouse with a human ear? A synthetic muscle 100 times stronger than a human’s? Impossible? Maybe not….

      • Trevor

        Jeez, man. I am aware of some of the experiments being conducted in the name of science. Does it make it ethical? That is the main question.

        You know, I used to laugh at the Greek mythology, what with centaurs, fauns, and etc. Yet to see Christians thinking there’s something to it is just mind boggling.

        Before there was mankind, there was a race of giants called the Titans. And among them was born Zeus. Eventually, Zeus and his brothers and sisters overthrew the Titans. All of this can be found in Greek mythology, something I studied back in 8th grade. The producer of the Titans was the father Sun and the Mother Earth Gaia. Nothing in there about God. I wonder why.

        Ah, because mankind did not want to acknowledge the Creator and chose to worship the creation instead of the Creator.

        And furthermore, satan is associated with Zeus. Hmm.

        Therefore, God is not the author of confusion and I trust God over whatever preachers try to push off as Biblical when it is science fiction nonsense.

        • DeusLoVult

          What do you think of the UFOs? If, I may ask.

          • Trevor

            Nothing more than demonic influence. I agree heavily with the Greek Orthodox who investigated this and saw pattern of anti-Christians messages in the stories of supposed abductions.

            I wouldn’t be surprised if the government is behind it, after all, they are always trying to develop new weapons for war. But to give it credit to aliens’ influence? I think that is selling mankind short.

            After all, I can find verses in Genesis and Exodus that God gave mankind gifts of being able to craft metal works. It explains why some people have the uncanny ability to pick up new skills without being taught. I once read of a math genius from India or somewhere there about who never knew math and was able to solve the most enigmatic riddle of math without being taught!

            God wired us in His image! Which meant we had been made with a rational mind, and that’s what separates us from the animals. It is sins that corrupted the mind.

            It’s why Paul says we are to bring every thoughts into captivity to the obedience of Christ. The devil wants to poison the mind and looks like he is succeeding.

          • DeusLoVult

            I think it is demon/human hybrids. Look….there’s no way people are responsible for it. Victims are recorded as being lacerated…..at the molecular level. That is absolutely impossible to accomplish, for any technology that we possess, secret or not. I don’t buy into conspiracies lightly Trevor. There’s something to this one. Think about the death of Forrestal….he knew something…he was going to blow the whistle. Our government works with them, I am afraid. I also believe their ships are inter-dimensional, that is why they appear on radar only in atmosphere, but never in space.

            Now, as to how demons can accomplish such ‘wonders’? We live in a digital world. We are digital. But demons are physical beings, and they do not live solely in our realm. They have more dimensions, live in higher planes of existence. They have the power to manipulate our world. That why people report things like blood seeping from the walls, and windows breaking in demonic encounters, yet, if they blink again, it’s all gone. That’s because it was all an illusion, it never happened.

          • Trevor

            Oh brother. You clearly bought into the matrix.

            I have had enough with this nonsense.

          • DeusLoVult

            No, not the matrix, nothing to do with that at all. Ever heard of Schroedinger’s cat?

          • Trevor

            Not interested.

            Here’s an Orthodox view. And I’m sticking to it.

            http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/alien_abduct.aspx

          • DeusLoVult

            Dear Lord help me….Shroedinger’s cat has nothing to do with aliens, it’s a thought experiment. Here:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

  • OrthodoxKGC2015

    Not to take away from what you’re saying, but when you look at the ages of both the Post-Flood and Pre-Flood Patriarchs, with the eye of Faith, you’ll realize that Moses knew people in his family who saw and knew Jacob, and Jacob knew Shem, son of Noah, who knew men who knew Adam….

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Why were 3,000 slain by the Levites – was it because of their DNA, or for what they had done.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    So, did all these animals have Nephilim DNA too?

  • DeusLoVult

    I know. There are other theories, sure. But none have the Biblical support like this one. It’s like OrthodoxKGC said, we’ve become too rationalist. Modern Christians can’t stand the idea of the supernatural existing. They want the Bible to conform to their science textbooks.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Why don’t protestants believe in the Eucharist – because they are too ‘rationalist’.

      • DeusLoVult

        We both know about Martin Luther, my lady.

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Is that an answer to the issue?

          • DeusLoVult

            Do you see me defending the fact, my lady? I am not. I can’t help it, that Martin Luther was insane, and that the Church split because of him.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            But you are in his camp.

          • DeusLoVult

            No, my lady, I am not. I am in my own, a fact I dislike. but that is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            So you are your own church?

          • DeusLoVult

            No, my lady, not at all. Let’s skip to the point, shall we? I think I know where this is going….

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Fine – I will just remind you that Jesus stated that you must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life.

          • DeusLoVult

            Yes, my lady, I am aware of that. Soon, I pray that I shall. Now, question…..do you say that the Sons of God are simply righteous men, as spoken of in Genesis?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            “Sons of God” are those in covenant relationship with Him.

          • DeusLoVult

            Are they human, my lady?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Yes – and God is not going to save any of the fallen angels – their judgment has already been rendered.

          • DeusLoVult

            Then why, my lady, does God say otherwise. Man was created on the Sixth Day. Yet, in Job 38, God Himself says that the Sons of God were shouting for joy on the Third Day. Can you explain?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            What very notable event happened on the ‘third day’. “Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad.” John 8:56.

          • DeusLoVult

            But God is speaking of Creation, my lady, not Abraham.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            ‘Creation’, the earth, was given the curse that should have gone to Adam and Eve – it is still ‘groaning’.

          • DeusLoVult

            I do not think that answers the question, my lady. But never mind for now. I may tarry no longer. I hope we shall converse again later. God bless you, fair lady, and please, have a nice day. 🙂

          • Tom_mcewen

            And The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. One the third day the lamb of God was resurrected, Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad. God IS not becoming, he is not subject to time nor space,

          • Julie LaBrecque

            If they can’t ‘see’ it, they don’t believe it.

          • Grandmere

            Uh, oh.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Many people profess this – don’t know how they fulfill 1 Cor 12:20-30, as well as other verses that speak of unity and cohesion.

          • Grandmere

            Uh, NO

      • Tom_mcewen

        Rational? I just heard that that devil is powerful and he is in you causing you to think forbidden thoughts and act evil, but at the same you are saved washed by the blood of jesus and the devil has power over those who are saved. No wonder the church says no private interpretation. Everyman in their eyes is theologian on the level of Pope Benedict. Then there is Tom Horn.

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Funny – but so true! If you don’t like what your preaches say, then just go start your own church, lure half the congregation to go with you, bam – new church, quicker than you can fry a chicken.

        • Steve Smith

          don’t forget steve quale.

          • Grandmere

            Strange bird.

        • Grandmere

          Oh! The humanity!!!

      • Steve Smith

        this stuff is too silly. thank god that that rational catholics and orthodox don’t buy this, dog and pony show of creationism.

      • Grandmere

        Lord, I believe!

        • Julie LaBrecque

          Me too!! I NEVER doubted – imagine my surprise when I discovered the Miracles of the Eucharist that exist in the Church’s history!

  • Trevor

    Wrong.

    The flood happened because God in His own words said He was sorry He made man. The Scriptures plainly says that men were consumed with violence and their thoughts were continuing with violence.

    As the Scriptures says not to go beyond what is written, I refuse to push the Bible into the realm of science fiction and fantasy as some of you clearly have done.

    If DNA was the ultimate reason for the flood, God clearly didn’t do a good job because Noah and his immediate family survived. And that means He made a mistake. Are you willing to believe that? Not I, because God is just, and He is righteous when He judges.

  • OrthodoxKGC2015

    That was a delightful video my Romanian friend, thank you, brother in Christ! My original point though concerning ‘Unicorns’ and the like is that I do trust that there are explanations for things like these statements in the Bible, and not to fall into a now all-too-typical skepticism and rationalistic explaining away of the Christian Faith. Therefore, I am as I say, delighted to know that the ‘Unicorns’ in the Bible were Rhinos, which are magnificent creatures, praise be to God.

    In Christ,

    OKGC

  • ChiRho

    ¿Say wha??

  • ChiRho

    I can’t swat flies efficiently enough when I’m running in the summer heat. How much time before I grow a long tail that can swat flies ?

  • Grandmere

    I always use a Rolex watch in my discussions. The hotel was a good one.

  • ChiRho

    Ahhhh, “I see” said the blind man.

    Paul knows what he was talking about. The earlier Cretans were much worse I’d say. Human sacrifice, including babies, etc. God didn’t call for the annihilation of those peoples for small infractions. One can simply observe what their remnants carried on after that time to get a taste for how evil they must have been before the Hebrews were led out of Egypt.

  • OrthodoxKGC2015

    Sorry about the mistake, I was thinking ‘Dacia’:-)

    God bless you and have a wonderful summer!

  • Andy Holland

    The fallen angels, the Nephilim and that story are described in the book of Enoch, which in the Coptic and Ethiopian Church is considered canonical, and parts are quoted from it for example in Jude. It is also where one gets the famous line, “slay the bastards” which is the command God gave to His angels to destroy them utterly.
    However the mania is also applicable to what they did in that recent shining meets master and commander meets Noah movie (although the incense putting to sleep the animals was cool).

  • Joan Simpson

    Have you seen LA Marzulli’s take on this?