The Catholic Church Has Always Been Against Islam And Will Always Be Against Islam And Nobody Can Ever Change That

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King Sobieski of Poland sending the Pope a message about the Christian victory over the Muslims at Vienna

Robert Spencer at Jihad Watch recently wrote an interesting piece about the status of the Catholic Church today and Islam. In his article, he alludes to his frustration with Church leadership about Islam and their even complicit actions in allowing Islam to spread its agenda unchecked:

Msgr. Swetland has now helpfully supplied me with the remarks below, clarifying his position and supporting it with statements of various Popes and the Second Vatican Council. Msgr. Swetland contends that statements of recent Popes to the effect that Islam is a religion of peace fall into the category of teachings to which Catholics must give “religious assent,” as per the quotation below from the Second Vatican Council document Lumen Gentium.

If Msgr. Swetland is correct, then I am, as he puts it, “a dissenter from the papal magisterium.” So also, then, would be millions of other Catholics, including Catholics from the Middle East who have borne the brunt of Muslim persecution of Christians and know what Islam teaches, such as the gentleman from Lebanon who phoned in to the Mariani Show during my discussion with Msgr. Swetland. If Msgr. Swetland is correct, then Catholics must affirm that Islam is a religion of peace as part and parcel of being Catholic, and the Catholic Church will be requiring that its faithful affirm the truth of what is an obvious and egregious falsehood, as I demonstrated here and in many other places.

If Msgr. Swetland is correct, and it is Church teaching that all Catholics must accept that Islam is a religion of peace, then the Catholic hierarchy will have demonstrated that it does not have the authority or reliability in discerning and transmitting the truth that it claims to have; Papal claims to speak in the name of Christ will be eviscerated; and the Catholic Church as a whole exposed as a fraud. (source)

As a fellow Catholic, I can sympathize with his frustrations. There are many people in the Church today who are in support of Islam, including sadly, the current pope. That said, many of the problems one sees in the Church today came about following the “reforms” of Vatican II, that the Church’s long-standing position on Islam has never changed, and it will be only a matter of time before the truth finally comes out again after being wrongly ignored by certain members of the hierarchy.

For those who are not aware, the Vatican II council was a non-binding council and the decisions that it made were equally non-binding. In the words of even those who participated in the council, they will say from their own words that the council was “pastoral, not dogmatic.” This is a critical distinction because it is the difference between discipline versus doctrine- a doctrine is a formal teaching that explains a divinely revealed truth. A discipline, however, is a man-man rule or recommendations, usually done for the sake of facilitating a particular teachings, preventing an abuse, or to accommodate to a specific set of challenges, but what makes is difference is because it is wholly man-made and acknowledged as so.

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Fun fact: Cardinal Carlo Martini, who was behind much of the radical “pastoral recommendations” that caused the wreckage from Vatican II (and again, all of which were non-binding and carried no theological weight whatsoever) was a Freemason and as such he was working as a traitor within the ranks of the Church. However, it was not just him, as there were many more traitors and suspected masons, such as Cardinals Anibale Bugnini and Jean-Marie Villot.

An example of doctrine and discipline is the teachings on the Eucharist versus the prohibition on married priests. The teachings on the Eucharist is a doctrine because it explains a dogma, which is that one must consume the body and blood of Jesus, per John 6, or else one does not have life within him. The understanding was, is, and always will be this means the literal body and blood as taught by all the great saints of the past, and is critical to salvation,  but this has been taught consistently by all Christians up until the Protestant Revolution- even Martin Luther himself, the founder of the Revolution, emphasized that Christ was truly present in the Eucharist, saying that is was so clear from Scripture and the writings of the saints that it could not be plausibly denied:

Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as thesign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.

Surely, it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous.” (source)

By comparison, the prohibition on married clergy is a discipline. In the West, it has been a standard practice since the Council of Elvira in 304, and has been a formal discipline since it was established so by Pope St. Gregory VII in 1059. The reasoning behind clerical celibacy was to prevent the formation of dynasties, simony, and more importantly, to prevent issues with inheritance in the case of children. However, this is a uniquely Western phenomenon, as Eastern Catholics as well as the Orthodox do allow for married priests in certain cases.

This difference between doctrine and discipline, as well as the statement that Vatican II was not binding, should give us pause for another question- why is it then that Vatican II is spoke with such authority and taught as though it is binding? After all, if the documents were just pastoral statements and have no theological weight, why are they presented as having such?

Now this is where things get interesting.

Look to the most recent scandal with the “synod on the family” that took place. The synod, which many Catholics have described as a “sinod”, is because of the scandalous nature of what happened, and that is how many of the leaders of the synod, almost entirely from Germany or Germanic countries (and all who happened to be very, very close personal associates of Pope Francis) were pushing for the Church to acknowledge homosexual unions. This was something which, as many bishops pointed out, not only could they not do because it is forbidden permanently, but was a direct contradiction to Church teachings, and even if they did do it, it would not be legal and Catholics would be required to disobey it. Therefore, what happened with the controversy was not actually to change teachings, since that would be impossible, but to give the impression that a change had taken place when it really did not.

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The heretical Cardinal Walter Kasper of Germany, close friend of Pope Francis, supporter of violating Church teaching on sodomy and divorce, and manipulator of the Synod of the Family.

Think of the Catholic Faith as a trust fund. The deposit are the teachings given by Jesus, and the guarantor is God, who enjoined those teachings. The fund and its deposit of faith all belong to God, and no man can change them. As such, the Pope is simply a trustee- it is his responsibility to look after the good of the Faith and those who benefit from it (the faithful), and to make sure that it is being properly represented. However, he cannot add to or subtract from anything, since he does not have access to change this. The only malicious thing that he could do, if he really wanted to, is to lie about the contents of the deposit of Faith- this would not actually change what the Faith teaches, but it would give people an impression that things were different than they actually are. It’s like a trick that a mean big brother would play on his little brother- he would tell him that he has something that does not actually belong to him, or that things are different that what they really are.

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Bishop Athanasius Schneider, a modern day hero and one of the few voices at the Synod on the Family who stood up to Kasper’s heresies and Pope Francis’ refusal to intervene in a clear moral wrong.

This is not the first time this has happened. If you have any doubt about this, look into the entire scandal of distributing Communion in the hand. This practice was never permitted, and the only “exception” ever given was in extreme circumstances and was done at the insistence of certain disobedient (and Germanic) bishops. However, the practice soon took over the entire Church even thought it was not supposed to and is still wrong:

The practice of receiving Holy Communion in the hand first began to spread in Catholic circles during the early 1960s, primarily in Holland. Shortly after Vatican II, due to the escalating abuses in certain non-English speaking countries (Holland, Belgium, France and Germany), Pope Paul VI took a survey of the world’s bishops to ascertain their opinions on the subject. On May 28, 1969 the Congregation for Divine Worship issued Memoriale Domini, which concluded: “From the responses received, it is thus clear that by far the greater number of bishops feel that the present discipline [i.e., Holy Communion on the tongue] should not be changed at all, indeed that if it were changed, this would be offensive to the sensibility and spiritual appreciation of these bishops and of most of the faithful.” After he had considered the observation and the counsel of the bishops, the Supreme Pontiff judged that the long-received manner of ministering Holy Communion to the faithful should not be changed. The Apostolic See then strongly urged bishops, priests and the laity to zealously observe this law out of concern for the common good of the Church.

Despite the vote, in 1969 Pope Paul VI decided to strike a compromise with his disobedient bishops on the continent. Given “the gravity of the matter,” the pope would not authorize Communion in the hand. He was, however, open to bestowing an indult – an exception to the law – under certain conditions: first, an indult could not be given to a country in which Communion in the hand was not an already established practice; second, the bishops in countries where it was established must approve of the practice “by a secret vote and with a two-thirds majority.” Beyond this, the Holy See set down seven regulations concerning communion in the hand; failure to maintain these regulations could result in the loss of the indult. The first three regulations concerned: 1) respecting the laity who continue the traditional practice (of receiving kneeling and on the tongue), 2) maintaining the laity’s proper respect of the Eucharist, and 3) strengthening the laity’s faith in the real presence. (source)

Fast forward to today, and re-apply this to the situation with Islam vis-a-vis the traditional teachings of the Church concerning Islam.

I have written a book- Lions of the Faith: Saints, Blesseds, and Heroes of the Catholic Faith in the Struggle with Islam, where I have meticulously documented how the Catholic Church is inherently, irreconcilably,100% opposed to Islam and is in fact the greatest obstacle to Islam’s global spread. I have written here how the Popes of the Catholic Church are historically the greatest warriors against Islam. I have written how the saints- the great men and women of the Catholic Church whose lives serve as models for the Faithful- are all against Islam for the same reasons. The fact is that no branch of Christianity is more anti-Islam than the Catholic Church.

Yet how do we explain what Pope Francis has done recently?

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Pope Bl. Urban II, the man who instituted the Crusades.

Again, using the examples above and in combination with the history of the Church, Popes are humans- there are good ones and not good ones. Personally, and for far more serious reasons than his relationship with Islam, I do not like this pope- that does not make me “anti-Catholic,” nor does it make me a sedevacantist (one who believes that there is no real pope, which is a heresy and which some Catholics sadly believe). It does make me a man with an opinion- just as there are good popes, there are also not good ones.

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Pope St. Pius V, the man who put together the Holy League to confront the Muslims at Lepanto and who instituted the Rosary to be said to fight against the Muslims.

Pope Francis clearly has an affinity for Islam. He can say whatever he wants as a part of his personal statements, which he has taken full liberty of to express his like of Islam and Muslims and even his disdain for Catholics who have large families (which is something the Church has always encouraged). Pope Francis, speaking as a man, can say whatever he wants- however, he cannot articular doctrine in such an informal way because he is not speaking as a teacher of faith an morals (called ex cathedra in the Church). Papal infallability is only when speaking as a teacher of faith and morals for the whole Church under certain very specific conditions it has only been used twice in the last two centuries. One was for articulating the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception under Pius IX in 1854, and the other was for the doctrine of the Assumption under Pius XII in 1950. I should also like to add that both of these particular teachings are not new at all, but were and have been taught since the earliest days of the Church. This is a true usage, since using the example of the trust fund that I gave earlier, the Pope was neither adding to nor subtracting from Church teachings- he was articulating what was already there. 

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Pope Bl. Innocent XI, who coordinated the entire battle against the Muslims at Vienna on September 11th, 1683. Without his important work, it is likely that not only would the battle have not taken place, but it would be in such disarray that the Ottomans would have won.

What makes Pope Francis’ numerous “off the cuff” statements troubling is not so much that they are his own (and wrong) opinions, but that he is the Pope. While he is free to express his particular opinion, people to look to what he says seriously- many people and wrongly so take his words spoken in this context as doctrine unto itself. The effect is that Pope Francis has not actually changed any church teachings through his actions. However, he has given the impression that doctrine has changed and people start to do things that are wrong because they have been given the wrong impression.

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This incident of Pope Francis washing the feet of Muslim refugees was unprecedented, and not in a good way. This is not about the dignity of the Muslim people, but the fact that (a) Islam rejects and hates Christ, (b) it appears to give support to a group of people whose beliefs hate the Faith this Pope is meant to uphold and defend, and (c) because the disciples were followers of Christ, the persons whose feet are being washed are meant to represent the original twelve, which is not the case. This was a complete scandal.

Tell me, do you think it is an accident that Pope Francis has not made one doctrinal statement while being Pope, but instead made a plethora of “off the cuff” and “pastoral” statements that have no binding theological weight? I do not believe so. I also find it very interesting and likewise not an accident that the Freemason lodges, who are the historical enemies of the Catholic Church, highly anti-clerical, behind the revolutions of the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries in Europe, are praising Pope Francis, and how Pope Francis closely mingles with Freemasons. I also do not believe that it is an accident that his papacy comes at the coming of the 100th anniversary of Fatima, which spoke of the communist (and Freemason) infiltration of the Catholic Church.

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The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendia. A must read (right here for free) booklet on Freemasonry, a centuries-old enemy of the Faith. The Freemasons have infiltrated the Vatican (as has been known for years), and Pope Francis’ open praise by the Freemasons is the first ever for a pope, which generates more questions than it answers.

While things are very bad today in the Church, perhaps even worse than they have ever been in history, remember that the Church has faced similar conflicts before. As we have discussed here before, during the 4th century the majority of Christians did not even believe that Jesus was God, even though Sacred Scripture clearly states so. This was the teaching of the heretical priest Arius, whose influence was so great that it was said that 80% or more of all bishops were also apostates. That said, there were good men and women who opposed him. One of them was the bishop of Alexandria, Athanasius. Other great men, such as Gregory Nazianzen and Nicholas, were equally in opposition. When all was said and done, orthodoxy overcame heresy and these men are recognized as saints today while Arius and his teachings are condemned for all time.

As much as I am concerned about the situation of Islam in the Church today, I am not as worried, because truth will always and inevitably prevail over heresy and evil, and as we have stated before, echoing the words of the great saints, Islam is simply a heresy- the culmination of all Christian heresies in their final and perfected form. That said, it does not mean that we simply “give up,” but taking heed from the Gospel of James, to live and perform deed that demonstrate our fidelity to the truth by our works, for:

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. – James 2:18
As far as Mr. Spencer’s comments are concerned, I understand his frustrations, and while I cannot speak for him and he will ultimately believe what he chooses to, I do know three things:

First, the Church is promised in Sacred Scripture that as the rock founded upon Peter, the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Second, that the Catholic Church is, was, and will continue to be the greatest warrior against Islam in world history.

Third, that if he really is frustrated with the problems in the Church with the apostates in the hierarchy, then consider going to the Latin Mass or the SSPX, both of which are fully in the Catholic Church and are opposed to the changes of Vatican II. Indeed, he would be very welcome.

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St. John Capistrano, the scholar turned warrior who lead an army against the Muslims as an old man and defeated the Ottomans at the Siege of Belgrade in 1456.

 

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  • Marcos Filipe Guerra

    God bless you for your articles. Love them.

  • susan

    Andrew, i don’t know if you’ve listened to this tape of Malachi Martin. In it he talks a great deal about the Catholic Church and mentions the Arian heresy and quite a lot of other things as well.
    It’s called “The Kingdom of Darkness”
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kAIOMf-xVvo

  • Lay_Monk

    “First, the Church is promised in Sacred Scripture that as the rock founded upon Peter, the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”

    Excellent article Andrew. We either trust in God’s promise and providence or we don’t. That’s the simple objective truth.

    On a related note Catholic apologist John Salza’s most recent book is titled “True or False Pope.” Below is a 2 part interview he did on the book:

    • paulette barrow

      False prophet

      • Lay_Monk

        False prophet or not, although this is concerning to ‘human reason’, it’s irrelevant with respect to ‘divine reason’. Francis is the legitimate Pope at this time, unless you believe Satan has pulled one over God and usurped His Word and His Providence? In that case you are calling Christ a “liar”.

        Pope Francis, whatever his pastoral and leadership errors, has not changed Catholic dogma, and he will not change Catholic dogma. Christ would strike him down before that happened:

        Acts 5:3-6 (DRA)

        3 But Peter said: Ananias, why hath Satan tempted thy heart, that thou
        shouldst lie to the Holy Ghost, and by fraud keep part of the price of
        the land?

        4 Whilst it remained, did it not remain to thee? and after it was sold, was it
        not in thy power? Why hast thou conceived this thing in thy heart? Thou
        hast not lied to men, but to God.

        5 And Ananias hearing these words, fell down, and gave up the ghost. And there came great fear upon all that heard it.

        6 And the young men rising up, removed him, and carrying him out, buried him.

        On God’s Providence:

        “God is the sole ruler of the world (Job 34:13). His will governs all things (Psalm 148:8; Job 9:7; Isaiah 40:22-6; 44:24-8; Sirach 16:18-27; Esther 13:9). He loves all men (Wisdom 11:25, 27), desires the salvation of all (Isaiah 45:22; Wisdom 12:16), and His providence extends to all nations (Deuteronomy 2:19; Wisdom 6:8; Isaiah 66:18). He desires not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should repent (Ezekiel 18:20-32; 33:11; Wisdom 11:24); for He is above all things a merciful God and a God of much compassion (Exodus 34:6; Numbers 14:18; Deuteronomy 5:10; Psalm 32:5; 102:8-17; 144:9; Sirach 2:23). Yet He is a just God, as well as a Saviour (Isaiah 45:21). Hence both good and evil proceed from Him (Lamentations 3:38; Amos 3:6; Isaiah 45:7; Ecclesiastes 7; 15; Sirach 11:14), good as a bounteous gift freely bestowed (Psalm 144:16; Ecclesiastes 5:18; 1 Chronicles 29:12-4), evil as the consequence of sin (Lamentations 3:39; Joel 2:20; Amos 3:10, 11; Isaiah 5:4, 5). For God rewards men according to their works (Lamentations 3:64; Job 34:10-7; Psalm 17:27; Sirach 16:12, 13; 11:28; 1 Samuel 26:23), their thoughts, and their devices (Jeremiah 17:10; 32:19; Psalm 7:10).”

        Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm

        • paulette barrow

          Oh i never said he pulled one over on God,God knows exaclty whats up and he allowed this deception for a reason and when hes ready he will do what he does best,REVEAL THE ENEMY FROM WITHIN

          • Lay_Monk

            Can you show me a single example in Scripture from Acts onward where another disciple is named before Peter or given authority over Peter:

            https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=peter&qs_version=KJV&limit=250

            (I prefer the Douay-Rheims version, but the protestant KJV will suffice to prove this point)

            Are you denying Peter is the rock Christ built the Church upon and the legitimacy of the Papacy?

            http://www.pjpiisoe.org/pamphlets/093US.pdf

            http://www.catholic.com/tracts/origins-of-peter-as-pope

            Or are you just calling Pope Francis a false prophet to blow off steam?

          • paulette barrow

            Im not going to get into it with you because flat out the catholic church is not the only bride Jesus is coming for and there will be many that wont be going with him anywhere because of thier certain beliefs,but im not going to argue it or even get into it,i know who i am in Christ i know what hes spoken to me and what he has showed me as far as whats coming on this earth very soon and people need to just get closer to him and ask him what he would have them do in these last days and stop with im right and your not crap thats not God speaking,God Bless

          • Lay_Monk

            “and stop with im right and your not crap thats not God speaking…”

            It’s not about “I’m right and your not.” It’s about being in obedience or disobedience to Christ.

            What you’re preaching is Christian ‘relativism,’ which paved the way for the (masonic) secular relativism that has flourished in our society in modern times.

            I agree that Christ will reunite the Church one day and bring His sincere lost sheep back into the one fold:

            John 10:15-16 (DRA)

            16 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.

            I disagree that we should minimise the disobedience of these lost sheep and churches in the meantime. That would be uncharitable.

            The fact remains that it’s God’s will that His Church be under one Magisterial authority and it’s clear from both history and Scripture who this Magisterial authority is. To say otherwise is to unnecessarily put the salvation of ones soul at risk.

            The Christian faith isn’t relative. It’s universal (Catholic).

            God Bless

          • paulette barrow

            Absolutely amazing

          • Lay_Monk

            It is amazing how you just make up the truth as you go, and say “God revealed it to me”.

            Maybe it’s time you scribe a new gospel with this God who speaks to you, and call it “The Gospel Paulette.”

          • paulette barrow

            Obviously you dont believe God speaks to his children which he says he does in his word,i guess you think he only talks to the pope and priests,or does he

          • Lay_Monk

            You could study medicine online, but that wouldn’t make you a doctor. There are countless ways God’s speaks to us, the primary ways being the Holy Bible and Catholic dogma.

            From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

            66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

            67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

            Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations.”

            https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/apparitions.htm

          • paulette barrow

            Like i said if you think God only speaks to catholics,i guess you will find out one day just how many none catholics he speaks to,when he said in the last days he will poor out his spirit upon all flesh,where did he say only if thier catholic,he didnt he said all,im done with this convo and the wrong doctrin your spuing

          • Lay_Monk

            Yes, the Bible does say that, during the “last days”.

            How do you know it’s ‘officially’ the last days yet? “God told you so”.

            Do you have any objective criteria you base this assumption on, other than your own ‘personal’ revelations?

            Christians have been claiming it’s the last days since the times of the earliest Christians.

            Could they be approaching? Most certainly!

            Are we there yet? No…

          • paulette barrow

            Are you blind to not know we are in the last days,God told us in his word what to look for,open your eyes its all around,yes we are there,wow never mind stay in your deception and slumber,im done

          • Lay_Monk

            When ‘the’ Antichrist is formally unveiled and his 7 year reign begins, then and only then, will it officially be the ‘end times.’

            Yes, I do ‘believe’ we are living at an unprecedented time in history, and we likely will live to see the end times. No, I will not say we are there ‘yet’.

            I find Walid’s interpretation of end times events to be the most convincing at this stage, and events have continued to unfold as he has interpreted they would through Scripture. The Church has only declared the following facts on the ‘end times’:

            http://www.ewtn.com.au/devotionals/mercy/catechism.htm

            God Bless

          • Georgeorwell

            So please share what this being of light revealed to you in your bedroom about the end of time–prophet. Inquiring minds want to know.

          • paulette barrow

            NoGods true children who have his spirit indwelling in them want to know because they already know what time it is in God,but people who want to be sarcastic are just that sarcastic,have a nice day

          • Georgeorwell

            You said: “i know who i am in Christ i know what hes spoken to me and what he has showed me as far as whats coming on this earth very soon…”.

            You claim to be a prophet who is specially anointed such that you know the future and cry anathema on all Catholics who you hate. So prove your standing as prophet and tell us what your master has told you. Maybe your private insight will lead me to see the light. Surely you want me to be “saved”–right? That is why you so righteously share your profound knowledge of the errors of those who do not know the bible like you, is to save our souls right? So share your profound knowledge of what is to come so we can BELIEVE.

          • paulette barrow

            No nowhere in my comment did i claim to be a prophet,there are different gifts when it comes to prophecy,theres the prophet,the gift of prophecy,the word of knowledge ect,so dont put words in my mouth and nowhere did i say i was specially anointed,God will pour out his spirit upon all flesh,his daughters will prophecy,his young and old men will have dreams and visions,they are not necessarily prophets,basicly what your doing is exactly what they did to Jesus when spoke to the people of who he was,they even called him the devil,i have very good decernment and your not wanting the truth,you want and are looking for an arguement and im sorry im not going to bite,the only two things i will tell you is recieve Jesus while you can because he will not strive with man forever and if your smart stock up on food and water your going to need it.

          • Georgeorwell

            when and where will all this happen and in what fashion. Since I am just a stupid statue worshiping pagan I need your help.

            When you claim to receive prophecy or infer you are the elect then you claim you are anointed. But what do I know I worship Baal.

          • paulette barrow

            You said it i didnt,convo is over,like i said those God send my way he will have already been speaking to

          • Nan

            Jesus died on the cross to atone for our sins. Those of us who follow His teaching, have already received Him, through the Church that He founded.

          • paulette barrow

            Exactly,and anyone who believes in him,reads his word and follows him is his church and his bride

          • Nan

            The Catholic Church is His bride. It is the Church He founded. It is that against which the gates of hell shall not prevail.

          • paulette barrow

            John 6:47..John 3:15..John 5:24..John 11:25..Anyone who believes in Jesus shall be saved and have eternal life,sorry its not just the catholics,anyone who believes and calls him Lord, im not going to get into some kind of arguement about the word,if you have a problem with God recieving other people then catholics,take it up with him

          • Nan

            Sorry but Matthew 25:31-46 and Matthew 7:21-23 say otherwise.

          • paulette barrow

            Your not even understanding what hes saying here,the ones on the right are his children who said they were Christians his children and did his will,the ones on the left are the ones who said they were Christians but didnt do his will,they didnt feed the hungry or talk to people about him,thats why i said anyone who believes in him and does his will you know those who practice what they preach

          • Julie

            Twenty five Protestant theologians affirm that the primacy of Peter in how the Catholic Church understands, is correct.

            Now if only the Orthodox would open to the Holy Spirit for this perpetual reality.

          • Lay_monk

            I’ve read both your comments Julie, and thank you for your contribution.

            I’m by no means a scholar of our faith. I’m always grateful when a fellow Catholic can add deeper insight and understanding on a comment I post.

            God’s best to you!

          • Julie

            I took this great seminar, now about 2 years ago, ‘Roots of the Papacy’. Our instructors needed more time and we never got past 300 AD….just bits and pieces and we had one day just on papal infallibility which many Catholics themselves don’t understand. I wrote to a fellow just now about it….

          • Lay_monk

            Sounds like that would’ve been a fascinating seminar to attend.

            Many Catholics today are allergic to studying up on matters of our faith firsthand even when it simply comes to clarifying points of confusion for themselves. Many clergy members seem equally allergic when it comes to sharing anything outside of the subject of “mercy” 😉

            Nothing pleases me more than to meet other committed and faithful Catholics who see the problems in our community, clergy and Catholic school educators, and choose to stand upon the ‘rock’ of Peter anyway instead of choosing to get caught up in the winds of the hysteria about the “gates of hell conquering Peter”.

            That to me is the mark of a “true believer.”

            He or she will stand on Peter during the summer winter seasons, whether nations and empires rise or fall. That’s what Peter is there for after all, to be our ROCK, no matter what.

            God’s blessings to you.

          • Julie

            Thanks and same to you!

            Some times I want them to repeat the seminar but give us more time. We had a Lutheran lady explain the Protestant position where Peter was simply making a declaration of faith…rather than Peter being appointed by Christ to head His Church. Peter made previous declarations for Christ, I remember him walking on the water, and then sinking, where upon Christ lifted him up.

            We studied straight from actual church documents when i was in ministry training…no interpretations, no middle man, we went through the catechism many times from various angles. Parishes need to offer bible study that include the catechism….as the former explains how the Church interprets and then lives out the tradition of faith. And the footnotes and references show just how much the catechism draws from Sacred Scripture.

            There are many going in to get their Master’s degree in lay ministry. We hear them on the radio, there is a network growing, Mater Dei Radio, who has catechists coming in from all over. They do great work and we hear visitors calling in with their questions and getting good answers in return.

            I relate best to evangelical, professional Catholics who are using their education, and witnessing for their faith, full of joy and most balanced people.

            God bless you…the more we go along, the more we encounter of God’s faithful ones…I have a lot to learn all the time from others..

          • Lay_monk

            That’s a marvelous story and testimony of the good seeds currently being planted in our Church Julie in preparation for the challenges that have been brewing for generations now. We can all sense events are going to reach a climax sooner rather than later, whether that means it’ll next year or 20 years from now.

            Whenever it comes, in whatever form God chooses, I know Our Lord will have His Church ready to rise to the challenge!

            I’m a baby in the faith, my authentic conversion didn’t happen till late December last year, and I’ve never looked back since! No matter what the turmoil in the world, I’m steadfastly standing upon the rock of Peter till the good Lord decides he has no use for me on this earth anymore.

            May Our Lord continue to bless you and Our Lady protect you.

          • Julie

            Thank you for your kind words, and encourage you to take seminars and classes that interest you in your diocese! They are great to attend, have question and answers, and provide perspective on many events of the past.

            God bless you abundantly!

          • Lay_monk

            Thank you Julie.

            I have collected a fair amount of books on various aspects of our faith, including history, saints, apologetic’s and our Catechism, which I’m continuing to read through slowly but surely. Next year when I’m living in a permanent residence again rather than a temporary one, I’ll seek a more formal commitment through my local Parish, wherever it is I decide to settle, for both training and volunteer opportunities.

            I do understand how important it is to be involved and ‘live’ our faith. A faith without works, is a faith without life (Christ).

            Thanks for your encouragement and support on these matters.

            God be with you!

          • Julie

            You are welcome.

            Your collection of excellent Christian materials comes through with your posts! You are well grounded in the Holy Spirit! Continue on and endure in the Lord!

          • Julie

            Just looked this morning at http://www.romancatholicman.com and it is excellent!…gives you a very comprehensive look at the Church with 100% solid materials! I am going to become a regular myself there and let other Roman Catholic women know….

          • Lay_monk

            Thanks Julie. I’ve now bookmarked the link.

            Feel free to shoot me a message anytime you like, for any reason at all.

            God’s best to you.

          • Julie

            It is VERY GOOD….it really covers the whole dimension and foundation of our faith…and you will note we do not look to any particular pope as our sole means to the Lord.

          • Julie

            Alot of times as well, classes are offered in parishes, but few can attend because they are way too busy! We are all seeing how our modern culture and all its demands take us away from taking advantage of such wonderful opportunities!

        • Julie

          Correct. A canon lawyer investigated and yes, this pope was duly and properly elected.

          No Catholic likes any pope all the time. We all have our preferences.

          And his latest encyclical has parts that are not binding from what some theologians of the Magesterium are inferring.

          so what. We still have the primacy Peter.

      • Georgeorwell

        Says the pot to kettle.

        • paulette barrow

          No you have to 1st claim yourself to be a prophet and them lie to be a false prophet,iv done neither

          • Georgeorwell

            Then reveal what your master told about the end times.

          • paulette barrow

            I told you what you need to do in my last post.

          • Georgeorwell

            Got it buy food. Since I am poor I can’t stock up too far in advance so can you let me know is it weeks, months, years, seconds? Also will it be nuclear war, meteor, alien invasion? Do I need to dig a bunker?

            Thank you dear Paulette!

          • paulette barrow

            I have no idea when nor does anyone else,just to get prepared and to draw close to him,i dont have a bunker,but to be honest wish i did,God is already preparing safe places for his children to go and no it wont be years,and i see the sarcaism with the aliens altho your pope believes in them and supposedly is in contact with them,the problem with that is thier not little green men they are demons the same ones people talk to when they talk to the dead,familure spirits

          • Georgeorwell

            Do you ever hear voices in the dark of night? I do and my bed sometimes bounces up and down. This usually happens after I have said prayers to my golden pope statue. Is this a good thing?

        • Julie

          I blocked this person because I don’t think the person is in her right mind….I imagine these types holed up somewhere in some remote area of the country drawing on Chick and 7th Day and the like.

          • Georgeorwell

            Darn it Julie I was going to ask her what power ball numbers I should pick.

          • Julie

            Chuckle here…but She would just get mad. I pray to the Almighty to help me pass on them. Cannot reason with them. pray for them……

  • filomena seiffert

    It is so simple, however it is not done, the return of the Liturgy to Its original Latin. It would restore the respect the people must give to God, feeling of being in the Kingdom, the sweet breeze of the Holy Spirit in our souls, but as happened to the request of our Lady of Fatima, it has been discarded. Pope Francis has lots of love and is peaceful as the doves but he is forgetting the second part of Jesus admonishment to his disciples; be wise as serpents. The muslims he brought into the Vatican, should have been Christians, who are the ones persecuted in muslim land. It been said, we still should not speak ill of the head of the Church because he is Jesus representative. Jesus chose Peter, simple men, because he loved Jesus more then others. Peter was not perfect, he denied Jesus because of fear for his life, still Jesus ratified His choice by telling him to feed His sheep. I read on tradcath, John Vennari, has stage IV cancer, his wife is asking for our prayers. He is a strong defender of the faith.

    • Julie

      I would like to see the communion rail restored, and would prefer to wear a mantilla. Have one made by an Orthodox Jewish lady who makes them for us as well.

      • filomena seiffert

        I wear a veil or mantilla for a long time. Wen I lived in Florida I was the only one to wear. Now were I live, a few people wear them since the bishop installed the extraordinary form of mass. The Cathedral is been revitalized and altar will go back the way it used to be. I asked the bishop if he is going to put the rail but he said the people will kill him. The liberals, of course. The Legion of Mary is functioning here, we pray in front of the planned abortiohood. It is good to be involved in some activity. We need to pray a lot because the state of our church is caused by our abandonment of the devotions, a lack of warm faith, fervor in our worship. Just put your mantillait, it make us look better and if our hair is not well groomed the veil will hid it.

        • Julie

          Well….if I wear mine, and it has little grapes…on the edging…it will be seen as political.

          Our bishop had all the altars’tabernacles to be returned to the center of the church, God’s heart. I am finally joining my own canonical parish after going to the next door town…where my kids went to school.

  • JustThinking

    For his position on Islam alone (but other anti-Catholic positions – e.g. support of one world government and currency, global warming, etc), the Catholic faithful should work to replace Pope Francis.

    • Nan

      You’re suggesting assassination? Because he’s Pope until he dies, unless the unlikely event that he resigns.

      • Higlac

        Is there no way to depose a pope if he goes into manifest and persistent error or apostasy so as to become an anti-pope? How about if he becomes mentally incapacitated (as part of an accident or botched assassination) and can’t communicate (e.g., if he’s in a coma)? Does your church have anything to cover such eventualities?

        Finally, regarding those “Serbs” who abused you: did you ever verify if they were Orthodox or Moslem (which would make them Bóshñaci)??

    • Georgeorwell

      God has already replaced him. The dear one who claims to be “pope” just doesn’t know it yet.

      “Woe to the pastor who forgets his flock”

      • Julie

        Well………..he is ministering to people, however, that are hung up on the idea that the Church has tons of money and owns the Bank of America, etc etc etc.

        Nobody owns anything. We are all simply adopted sons and daughters.

        One cleric is elected, moves in, when his time is done or he dies, he moves out with what little he brought in.

    • Julie

      That is the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit not man. The system is all there.

      Authority never starts at the bottom and work its way up…congregationalism, a mind set brought in by communist infiltrators of the American and Canadian seminaries.

  • Lenny Duermo

    Bit odd considering how your own pope received the quran as a gift and calls it a “Holy Book”. I know many Catholics and not one of you own a bible, never mind read one!

    • Hogwash. Every Catholic and Orthodox here on this blog can teach you scriptures while you sound like a baby on diapers.

      • paulette barrow

        Its not hofwash,it seems your very informed about many things but what the pope does

      • Georgeorwell

        No offense Mr. Shoebat but why do you tolerate these blasphemous Trolls on your website? They add nothing but calumny and discord and their attacks on the Church should not be allowed. Free speech ends where blasphemy begins.

    • paulette barrow

      Dont bother ,you wont get anywhere,just read the stories and say nothing,they will attack you like your some kind of demon from hell,they dont know have the things thier pope does or says

  • 1Bobby8

    For the life of me I couldn’t understand how the College of Cardinals who were supposedly guided by the Holy Spirit can appoint someone as controversial and scandalous as Pope Francis. Than reading this article I realized it was the infiltration of Freemasons into the Church to subvert it from within…Thank you Andrew for this fantastic and eye opening article.

    • Julie

      I looked at all the cardinals, and in their description of the ones in the most forefront…he stood out to me.

      But when he was elected and came out…something about him….I sensed…didn’t connect to….alot of us now share this….

      So it is a mystery to me personally….I knew Cardinal Ratzinger would be chosen and it was John Paul’s secret hope…I think…he just said he had someone he hoped would be elected….

      I wonder rather if P Francis is speaking to the time for now…right before the chastisement and calling us to be Christian in the extreme?…..

      • 1Bobby8

        I don’t know Julie, it’s very confusing to me. Is being a Christian in the “extreme” mean to be foolish? I can see being a fool for Christ, but does that mean to deny the obvious?

        • Julie

          No, we are to be as gentle as doves and wise as serpents. Bishop Athanasius is a true shepherd.

          Being extreme is simply being forgiving irregardless of the mistreatment and to live in the Lord in His Life. So we have to keep an open mind…

          And keep praying for the pope, cardinals, bishops, priests…for the whole Church….I read in the 1980’s…MMP’s….that the Church would have to go through its crucifixion and death to be resurrected in Him…third secret of Fatima to me….

          • 1Bobby8

            Amen, we must pray for our Church.

    • filomena seiffert

      Francis is not scandalous, he speaks as Jesus told; love your enemies and bless those who curse you. He lives the gospel. when he lived in Argentina he did not live a mansion like many bishops do, he lived in an apartment and cooked his own meals. He does not want riches for himself but wants everyone in this planet to have their needs met.

      • 1Bobby8

        What I mean by scandalous is saying that Islam is a “peaceful” religion while Christians are being slaughtered in the Middle East in the name of Islam, what I mean by scandalous is equating Muslim violence, which is in the name of Islam, with Catholic violence, which is not in the name of Catholicism, what I mean by scandalous is urging countries to take in more Muslims who are raping and pillaging their guest country, in the guise of being “refugees”, another words he’s urging these countries to be suicidal. He also went along with the globalist about the big lie called “global warming”. That’s just the short list of why he may be called “scandalous”…I just wish he would stick with the teachings of the Church and Catholic doctrine and stay out of politics because it seams very clear that he’s either very naive or worse, going along with the globalist agenda.

  • paulette barrow

    Actually what takes the cake is to say having a relationship with Jesus outside of the catholic church is dangerous,hogwash,thats a lie from the pit

  • paulette barrow

    The one world religion the pope promotes is chrislam

  • Tom_mcewen

    Vatican II took place before my watch, for a pastoral mark of love, the bishops may as well run a bulldozer through the church it would have caused less damage. For the the heart and hands of the church, the women religious they as well used dynamite. In the legions to decimate was for a maniple of ten men and lose or in revolt beat one man to death. The Church in its wisdom beat nine out of ten women religious to spiritual death. Cafeteria catholics are the result not the cure. I have no answers, I know less then nothing of Freemasonry all I know I must kick the wreckage away with my feet to get close to the altar for the body and blood of my Lord. Lucifer, Luther and all the legions of protestants couldn’t damaged the church as deeply as its sworn Bishops. Hell will not overwhelm the church, but I had hoped the church would be more then one bishop and one lay Catholic.

    • Raph Sebastian

      [ Lucifer, Luther and all the legions of protestants couldn’t damaged the church as deeply as its own sworn Bishops. Hell will not overwhelm the church, but I had hoped the church would be more then one standing bishop and one kneeling lay Catholic.]

      Throughout Church history we have seen all sorts try to break the Church, from Arius to the Manichean to the Cathars to the Bergomils to the Anabaptists and to the Protestants even heretical bishops and Cardinals, all have tried and still try but, still the Church the LORD founded stands for indeed there is more than one Catholic that still kneels.

      • What’s more is those evil men of the cloth are awakening the militant spirit of the Church. As an observant of Rome I say it’s time to bring back the communion rails and make people kneel before taking the Eucharist. The priests should have their backs to the congregation while conscerating the bread and wine in Latin.

        By the way the wife and I signed up for RICA this past Sunday.

        • Raph Sebastian

          Such good tidings! All praise and glory be to our LORD for He is calling you home and blessings to you and your bride for listening to that call. I am so happy to hear this brother Trevor, despite the grim goings on in the Church, we the faithful will not be moved in disregarding truth for the falsity of inclusiveness without judging the sin.

          Indeed reverence for the Eucharist and kneeling before His presence and the consecration in Latin (after all it is indeed the Latin Rite) should be reinstated post haste. I am hoping that our next pope would be Cardinal Sarah, it’s time to move from Europe and the Americas, Africa is our last bastion.

          • God is not finished with the Church. He is allowing the gate to stay open so those who desire to enter by it will find life through the Real Presence in the Eucharist while those who desire to have their ears tickled leave the One True Church.

            Make no mistake, the day is coming the Lord Himself will shut the gate and no one will open it. There will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth in the outer darker.

        • Raph Sebastian

          I found this article very interesting. This priest is not one to give in inclusiveness for sake of inclusiveness.
          http://www.ncregister.com/blog/longenecker/the-world-will-treat-christians-like-it-treated-christ

          • My only problem is this line, ” we’re also in favor of tolerance and fair treatment of all people—including homosexuals.”

            It is precisely this sort of tolerance errors have crept in. While I agree that the Church is to be a hospital for sinners, it does not mean that as a hospital, it allows the disease to grow without treatment. As such, the goodness of God leads to repentance, and from that, it means to turn away from sins. What do you say?

          • Raph Sebastian

            Amen! Indeed the Church is a hospital for sinners that prescribes a cure not to allow the disease to grow.I

            think that statement is coming from an angle of love, not prejudice, that all people should be treated fairly, including homosexuals but we must tell the truth as it is, as in what the Church teaches about homosexuality. I think this is what he was getting at based on his other articles and especially on the subject of homosexuality.

            Of course one cannot compromise and should fight against the evil of the sodomite agenda. There is no dialogue with evil.

          • Thanks for the feedback, and it’s a relief that I didn’t misinterpret his intention in his column. The last thing I wanted to do is accuse the priest of modernism without proof.

            Still, I don’t like the word, “tolerance,” because to me as an engineering student, it implies a very, very small degree of acceptance. Anything that exceeds or fall short of the tolerance range is rejectable. To me, the narrow gate that Jesus spoke of, being the Narrow Gate Himself, is to be intolerant of accepting evil.

          • Raph Sebastian

            I agree though tolerance often leads to acceptance and acceptance almost always leads to condoning or worse closing a blind eye, which in effect is the grave sin of omission.

          • Julie

            Agree as it sounds like it transfers over to compromise.

          • Julie

            It means to see the human in them. I work in a homosexual household…and slowly am connecting with them and told them the other day I am including them in my 54 day novena to Our Lady of the Rosary…for many of God’s blessings to come to them…one now has a candle of st. Jude….

          • Julie

            Do what I do. Christ stands before the hearts of all people, including the homosexuals. See Christ before them. Serve Our Lord in them irregardless of their issues, etc.

            That is what i do, and even said that getting to know that but not personally directing it to them. It is a great grace to serve our Lord in our neighbor, especially those we see as sinners…

            do as Christ did….that is all the Pope means here.

            There are Catholic groups out there working with the homosexual population…’Courage’ is one of them.

          • It’s so hard sometime. It’s all I can do to refrain myself from making face at them because some of them are the nicest people around. I have seen what a relationship like that can do to a family as I have witnessed it personally. It took two years of tears and prayers to see that person finally freed from that disgusting lifestyle.

          • Except of course, all Luther’s looniness is blamed at his Catholic background and all Luther’s genius is attributed to his mastering Scripture.

          • Martin Luther and genius does not belong in the same sentence! He thought he was smarter than the Council of Hippo and Carthage since he, by himself and by Luther alone, judged the Epistle of James to have not been written by an apostle! All because of a single verse from James refuted Luther’s “sola fide” formula.

            I would venture to say that Martin Luther is the case study of why private interpretation of the Scriptures is forbidden, not by the Church, but by St. Peter himself (2 Peter 1:20). Unfortunately, the crowd of “sola scriptura” would go berserk and rip that verse out of the Bible because it refutes their argument as well.

          • Higlac

            Mr. Walid Shoebat, in that case you just might be interested in this article from a conservative Anglican site run by Dr. David Virtue: http://www.virtueonline.org/roman-catholics-seek-unity-protestants-499-years-after-reformation.

            [These are German Catholics doing this – I can’t make out if Rome’s Curia et al are in agreement on this initiative.]

            Boy oh boy, I just don’t know at times what to think or do… [I don’t blame his looniness on his religious background but on his less than Christian parents.]

          • I saw this the other day.

          • susan

            Looks to me like they’re adding a new building to the strange new church.

          • Julie

            Yes….as I can ascertain, there are no active sexual relationships going on right now. I think I should bring in holy water. One went away and wants to serve the poor, but told this person that if you are being called to do that, you go in a group, a community….but then you change, and are not so much into personal relationship as before but more encompassing with many…I think it freaked the person out…but it was true.

        • Julie

          Keep you both in prayer! Wonderful news! I always have sensed the Catholic spirit in you…so much in inner peace and balance….which I am not….and still growing!

    • Julie

      Check out Bishop Athanasius Schneider….awesome pastor!

  • rodolfo

    History is written and it is told.
    Who will agree that we should fight Islam for the victory of Jesus Christ?
    I do!
    Who else?

  • When Solomon did evil and had you been there, would you have condemned the faith or Solomon?

    What you write about Catholics you would not dare write about the Jewish faith in a million years. Yet you mouth off since attacking Catholics is the only accepted prejudice.

  • Georgeorwell

    Okay good for you. YOU “believe” we have no pope. So what? As much as I am sympathetic to the position of the Sedes; the problem with the private judgement that leads to the sede position is that it is very protestant in its result which is, it attacks the Church and fuels the fire of dissent and discord. This makes it an intolerable position. The theory of sede is fine but to preach it as gospel is not. We do not know and probably will not know in our lifetime who the true pope is. In the mean time, it is irrelevant to my faith as a Catholic because the True Church remains so despite the ramblings of the current pope. Oh and I’m not skipping Mass or going to Mass in some guys condo who’s standing as a priest is suspect and unverifiable as are many of the “independent” sede priest.

    • Julie

      Exactly. You keep your eyes on God and not on man.

      That is what the Catholic faith is about…not putting our trust in man but in God alone.

      The full deposit of faith Is in the Church now.

    • filomena seiffert

      I tottally agree with you. The dissent in the Church is not going to help, it is just other form of Protestantism. Luther thought he had the right to question the doctrine of Jesus and began to spread his errors which were rooted in pride and disobedience, same did lucifer . The pope was elected by the College of Cardinals, he is legit. I do think modernizing the Church was a blunder, but we need to stick together work to restore the sanctity and beauty of the Kingdom of God on earth.

      • Julie

        Exactlly….and I see some of the Orthodox independents as protestant like too. Protest and dissent and reject lawful authority, only for their own ethnic area. Didn’t know they were there…east of Constantinople….second in line of headship for universal Church. And it doesn’t change just because of numbers or that we have some dissenters or wolves in sheep clothes in the hierarchy on the West side.

  • Thank you for the encouragement! Pray for us.

  • In your view the cross is pagan, an image of Christ is pagan a star of David is pagan. Perhaps you are just too hung up on this issue and are acting like a Puritan. Tell me,what are your views on the Puritans?

    • Reading your dialogue with Jason makes me regret taking the time to be his accountability partner.

    • Julie

      Yes you deal with him..i saw his profile and he swallowed the SDA line….

    • Julie

      SDA’s never truly convert into Christianity and are tripped up by Judaism without Christ’s Church. Some refer to them on Catholic Answers as ‘judaizers’….these not anti Jewish at all.

      But very seldom do they ever convert to Christ’s Church. Very sad. They can have their hierarchy for their belief but no other Christian’s can. Alot of hypocrisy and irrationalism.

  • Lay_Monk

    The only time we can be certain that it is officially the last days is when the man of sin is revealed.

    The Church went through a severe tribulation before she triumphed in Rome. She went through a severe tribulation during the Reign of Terror in France and Napoleon’s subsequent military conquests, including the sacking of Rome, and the taking captive two different Popes (one of which died in his care).

    WW1 and WW2 was a severe time of tribulation for the Church, Christians and humanity at large. The rise of Communist Russia was a severe tribulation for the Church. The crusades were a time of severe tribulation.

    The Muslim Ottoman’s appeared invincible till Catholic nations banded together and caste them out of Europe.

    The list could go on…

    The Christian suffering from alcoholism is facing a severe tribulation, and so on.

    The Church and Christians as a whole, have always been in tribulation to varying degrees. That’s why we are the faith of the Cross. That’s why Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow Him. He never said, “Pop open the champagne bottles and let’s party, you’re saved just because.”

    The rock of Peter stands as Christ’s witness, testimony and deceleration to all of mankind:

    Matthew 16:18

    18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    He never said, “thou art my disciples.” He never said, “thou art my rocks”. He said “thou art Peter.” And no matter how dire the times appear, no matter how desire the situation has ever been historically speaking whether inside or outside of the Church, Peter still stands, as Christ promised.

    God Bless

    • paulette barrow

      None of those tho will be compared to that tribulation thats in Revelation

      • Lay_Monk

        Paulette, I’ve sincerely appreciated our exchange. You’ve been respectful throughout our dialogue without falling into slandering or attacking me personally, and I genuinely wish you the best as a Christian. I can only ask that you continue to contemplate these matters in the light of an objective and reasoned standard. Maybe we’ll have another exchange somewhere down the track.

        God bless you…

        • paulette barrow

          No worries God Bless

  • Nan

    The Holy Spirit chooses the Pope through the college of cardinals. Only the Holy Spirit can remove him.

  • Raph Sebastian

    The article clearly makes the case that the Catholic Church has always fought against islam, yet we will have utter morons here posting stating quite astonishingly that Catholics are not Christians, and Catholics are not going to heaven, as if they are God.

    Some even ridiculously claim that Jesus spoke to them directly, then offer no evidence for that claim. Then we have the ubiquitous, “the pope is the anti-Christ, the false prophet” and all kinds of strange accusations.

    These are the very same people that would glance over the founder of their religion, whether they want to admit it or not, that:
    a) Protestantism is a religion and all the sects therein have some form of organization like it or not (thus their argument or being against organized religion is a false one)

    and

    b) Luther founded Protestantism (on All Hallows Eve 31st Oct 1517), NOT CHRIST.

    These people will scarcely admit that if not for the Catholic Church and the Crusades, islam would be more rampant and probably Christianity would have been eradicated. And if they are indeed “bible believing” then the promise of Christ that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church is true. And thus if they used a little logic and asked what Church is this, they will have to conclude that it’s the Catholic Church, but of course that would require some honesty and total lack of prejudice. They will also glance over the fact that Protestants chose to side with the muslims against the Catholics, once again if they applied a little logic and asked themselves why is it that they were defeated alongside the muslims, it wouldn’t be hard to conclude, sans praeiudicium, that once again the LORD is no liar, He means it when He said His Church will prevail.

    Yet we see here, nearly 500 years after Luther founded his patently counterfeit version of Christianity, dismissing all authority, when clearly authority is always what the LORD spoke of unceasingly when He explained His teachings. The incessant breaking apart and splintering into more than 40000 different sects, cults and abominations have resulted in what Luther started. Yet we have people these people with logs in their own eyes spouting the exact stupidity and accusation bereft of logic accusing the Catholic Church and Catholics of not being Christian. While facts stare them in the face, that the Catholic Church and Catholics were the first to embrace the derogatory term that the Jews used to describe followers of Christ — Christians. I am sure these people do not know that “Christians” were actually called Followers of the Way, The Way being Christ.

    Despite all they have said, all the accusations they have hurled, all the spiteful vile and venomous lies they learnt and in turn spewed, Catholics continue to pray for them, pray that they return home to the Mother Church, seek reconciliation, accept that the LORD was not allegorically saying eat His flesh and drink His blood, that wine is wine and not grape juice and the host is indeed true food not just crackers or wafers and with the help and grace of the LORD not sin again as they learn from the teachings of His One and Only Church.

    • Lay_Monk

      History has been so thoroughly falsified and revised in modern times people can find a whole library full of books to support whatever fallacy they please on virtually any subject, whether that’s the supposed blessings of protestantism, atheism, secularism or anything else. To coincide with this continual rise in Anti-catholic propaganda has been a thorough dumbing of the masses through secular education and media.

      Now if the world media shows headlines of a current Pope kissing a Muslims feet or saying or doing anything else that’s scandalous, this is irrefutable evidence that the Catholic Church created Islam, and everyone in the clergy is conspiring with Islam to conquer the world.

      Absurd, “yes”. But it’s where we stand for the moment.

      Who judges “all of America” past, present and future (outside of her fiercest enemies) for everything Obama says and does?

      Instead of studying the actual teachings of the Scriptures and Church objectively (which is what matters most to me i.e. God’s will, everything else such as history and politics is secondary), it’s much easier to point fingers at apparent sinners in the Church and demonise the whole Church for it, double standards be damned.

      These same ‘saints’ (by their own standard) set the bar to please themselves, and continue to lower it as they please. The West has been on a race to the bottom thanks to her split from Rome not because of it! It’s getting to the point now in the west where we might as well remove the bar altogether, because anything goes sin wise.

      We don’t worship Christ as nations anymore, we worship Buddha (moral relativism). We can sin against God as much as we please, as long as we don’t offend the nanny state in anyway, and her special brand of ‘political correctness’ which is a religion unto itself.

      My view on the present Pope is simple: IF, worse case scenario, he is an infiltrator that has been given the Papacy A) God, in His providence has allowed it. B) An infiltrator at the helm is exactly what the Catholic laity deserves at this time for our disobedience to Christ as a ‘community.’ We aren’t exactly a beacon of virtue for the world right now. Christ holds his people to a much higher standard than the rest, He punishes them accordingly when they fall into willful disobedience. Just as He did with the ancient Jews.

      In saying the above, Christ’s declaration stands now and forever. Whatever woes the Church is presently facing or will ever face, inside or outside of the Church, “the gates of hell will not prevail against it.” We’ve survived poor Papacies in the past, and we’ll survive this one, if in fact Pope Francis proves to be a failed Pope at the end of his tenure. I think the jury is still out on that one till next year minimum, after this year of mercy concludes. Is Pope Francis using the media to create headlines under the guise that “no news is bad news” or is the media using him?

      Either way the Church will survive with her dogmas intact until she finally thrives again. Our role as Catholics is to pray for the leaders of our Church and our nations, while continuing to humbly and reverently conform our lives to Christ’s will through His Bride. Now, I’m preaching to the choir! 😉

      God Bless

      • Raph Sebastian

        Amen, I agree with your take. well sometimes the choir needs to be reminded with a good sermon. God bless you and your household too.

        • Lay_Monk

          God bless you brother. Ditto!

    • Julie

      I can see how old i have become in how I feel when reading such comments.

  • Georgeorwell

    For the answer to your question look up the quote from scripture in my post above for the fate of pastors who scandalize the sheep. Then go to catholic prophecy and read it.

  • Julie

    Nobody with any education considers Islam the religion of peace.

  • Julie

    Africa is the continent that is exploding with Catholic conversions because they were able to have Mass in the native language, as well as the pastor ask questions in the congregation to make sure they were understanding the Gospel correctly.

    The Roman Missal and its General Instructions are still there and are the roadmap for a valid Mass.

    My bishop celebrated a high pontifical Mass at a local contemplative monastery. But the local pastor said he would have to be shown an edict to have the Latin Mass in his parish. My former pastor was the first to bring back the Latin Mass in town, and when he first came in, he had the Blessed Sacrament returned to the center altar. They have the Latin Mass every Sunday according to that particular religious order’s rite.

    The Maronite rite is celebrated in Syriac, parts in Aramaic, uses bells, the preacher holds up the crucifix while he talks and the Mass constantly calls down the protection of God on His people.

    You are mixing up lawful change which is bringing many to Christ at their level with the modernists’ agenda that is leading others to hell.

    and at the Latin Mass, there are number of Afro Americans attending it as well.

    You could say the Roman Missal is for the liturgically mature.

  • Julie

    People got his number now and ho hum his ambiguous statements. He does some good ones as well. I also think he speaks as such because he wants us to live the Gospel in extreme, to extend Christ’s grace to all we meet and not judge and condemn…but I also remember 70% of the American bishops left Rome disagreeing with parts of the Synod and he rebuked them…and they continued home and spoke very nicely of the Synod in the spirit of the Church.

  • Julie

    Secretary but no one can perform solely papal duties….and nobody expects anything at that time any way.

    The Church is a human institution, and is comprised of wheat and chaff. There is no perfection in this world until we are in heaven with God.

  • Julie

    and also note in rising nationalistic Germany, there were many faithful priests and laity who did live out their faith most exemplary, but authority comes from the top down.

    Only the top hierarchy can reform the Church….the pope and bishops and the cardinals head congregations.

    The local bishop has the same power of authority as the pope over his diocese.

  • Julie

    The pope knows very well the contents between the two.

    Are you a follower of Chick?..he is a fake man who said the RCC created Islam…there are many sources on the internet besides Chick cartoon books and the guy is no former Jesuit either as he claims to be. Bad bad man.

    • filomena seiffert

      And how could Jesuits have created islam since Jesuit Order was created in 1520 and islam was in existence for 900 years?

      • Julie

        That is why I am trying to discipline myself to not even bother with such as they are so out of it…best pray for them.

  • Nan

    The beauty of the papacy is that the laity is under no obligation to pay attention to the Pope unless he’s speaking ex Cathedra. Last time that happened was 1950, when Pius XII declared the Assumption dogma. Non Catholics are never required to pay attention to him.

  • Julie

    You are misconstruing his words.

    He knows the deposit of faith, he was a bishop. Every cleric must pray the entire Breviary every day…and the Invitatory Pslams to put their trust in God alone and not be like the people of Meribba and Massah who doubted Him.

    You do not understand how Catholics believe of what is the nature and mission of the Church, and the big question out there is how many of you really want to know?

    Our deposit of faith is in the Catholic Catechism and we worship Our Lord in the Mass and He nurtures and ministers to us in the sacraments….just in this scenario…one finds and reads nothing of P Francis or any other pope.

    Open the catechism, read from accurate and objective context beginning with the Prologue and then go one doctrine at a time. You can easily find the catechism on the internet. Easy.

    but people prefer anti Catholic preachermen who make their livelihood getting people to believe in the prosperity gospel or upping themselves by knocking Christ’s Church down and making people think every Catholic every pope is bad.

    The pope is addressing the majority of reasonable Muslims who condone violence.

    Go to http://www.newageislam.com and see how many are taking a second look at Islam seeing its pure version in ISIS and how it treats women. This site is working to bring reason and common humanity into its belief system…and if you go so many pages back, there is an article where they state P francis has really helped him with this aim to insert these two great, universal values.

    It was criminals, psychopaths, warriors, plunderers, murderers, etc. who expanded Islam. And it is the crazies that commit the crimes. I recall seeing a young imam in England confront Chadouri who is now going to prison finally, for promoting such type of Islam that he said such a belief and practice is a sickness. Another Muslim in England in traditional clothes complained of those Muslims who came to England to take advantage and mistreat the country and its people.

    It is these kind of Muslims who seek peace and this version of Islam the pope is defending…and their dignity in God, whether they believe exactly as we do or not.

    There is such a thing as respect, and of finding out what truly people believe and not stereotyping and it goes for everyone else on the planet.

  • Julie

    Look at the comment I sent you a few minutes ago

    You don’t understand the context. And P Francis knows his time is short and he is calling us to the pure gospel. I am a cradle Catholic. I also watch EWTN tv and the many live or taped recordings of P Francis in his daily duties and he is very regular in that.

    You missed him calling out that it would require the military to destroy ISIS over a year and a half ago.

    Andrew has a new article and shows the very clerics who are of dubious nature and I know C. Montini of Milano was not of good intent but on changing the nature and mission of the Church.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Who is this Yeshua fellow? If I do a Google search will I find his name in the NT ( KJB) ? It has to be in the bible I have been told or it is false and of the devil.

  • Tom_mcewen

    The surest why to totally destroy your enemies is to make them your friend. Time is the Catholic Church’s friend; death in the arena ended by the Church, the drowning of children ended by Catholics rescuing them, the end of ignorance by the people, the founding of schools and universities, the aid for the sick in the foundation of hospitals, the modern world of empirical facts supported by the church, the homes for those past corporal labor, the church. Time, history and God is our friend.

  • Julie

    Bishop Athanasius Schneider is the one whose quotes are shared all over by Catholics. He is a true pastor.

    Follow him.

    Yes, agree with the characterization here…cardinal Marx is another one to pray for….

  • Julie

    Muslims are now thankful for P Francis for guiding them to insert common humanity and reason into Islam. Saw the article.

    All because of dialogue and starting at first base, we all believe in the One God, Creator…just that is the first step, as well as all human beings are made in the image of God.

    We have no power or right to condemn others.

  • Julie

    The hierarchy; you can study the history of anti popes. It is all there.

    Council of Trent corrected clerical issues, defined our doctrines, updated religious orders, gave the pope more advisors.

    The truth is the Church is self reforming.

    The problem is not doctrine, dogmas. It is pastoral administration.

    Seldom if any leave the Church over such matters. Rather it is personality issues with the priests.

  • Julie

    Who we submit to is Christ in the Church which has the FULL deposit of faith. the others have parts of the truth.

    You are projecting your stuff on me.

    We follow the pope only if he communicates to us the full deposit of faith.

    Where clerics get into trouble is pastoral administration. It has nothing to do with our faith, belief, and practice.

    Rather I see alot of projection by protestants because the very nature of Protestantism is man made and you follow individual men with their own specific ideas outside the Church.

    A theologian is supposed to submit his theological reflections to the Church for evaluation. P Francis’ latest encyclical has parts that would not pass by the Magesterial theologians.

  • Julie

    Righteousness is found only in the Lord. We all know it but it is false teachers who go about poisoning people’s souls, taking their attention away from Christ…and the sacraments where He personally ministers to us and provides us Eternal Life…to end up going about trolling and projecting all sorts of false ideas.

    These false teachers also violate the commandment that thou shalt not bear false witness.

    So you are drawing in essence the work of the devil in false believers. I would take a quick exit to get on your knees and ask the Lord to truly seek Him and find Him in truth and love.

  • Julie

    Thanks for sharing your background.

    What I am basically referring to is your concept of obedience.

    As a priest said, we are to obey Christ alone….but He is present in our parents, our teachers, our governing body of our country, as is the case with all countries….we obey to be good citizens.

    We obey the petrine office. But we have the right to follow our conscience. As John Paul II said, God placed the 10 commandments within our being, and so we all have a sense of right and wrong. A Muslima told me in regards to the terrorists, that muslims know in their heart what they do is wrong.

    We support and uphold the Petrine office.

    Only when the pope makes a definitive statement….in union with all the bishops, do we obey.

    Do you know what papal infallibility is? It is the first dogma of the Church and only came out at the First Vatican Council. There has been in our millenia a quiet acceptance giving way to a pope when he makes a decree. But it is the bishops who other go along or disagree…consider Paul confronting Peter.

    In papal infallibility, the pope looks at the tradition of the faith of the people. And there is this acknowledgement of quiet acquiesence towards a decree by a pope all down through the ages. The bishops follow their conscience, and if they cannot uphold the pope on some decision, then they come forward.

    Which brings us to the first dogma. For the pope to be infallible, he draws on the traditions of faith lived out by people…not something solely in and of himself. He decides to define a dogma. But he cannot do so without all the consensus of all the bishops.

    So going back, if a pope makes some decree…..and bishops disagree, the pope is in no position to make an infallible, definitive decree. The pope and bishops on a certain case must then work together to form an alternative pastoral practice must then be made by them…the pope and bishops together.

    So papal infallibility is when the pope makes a decree and all the bishops consent…and it must represent the full deposit of faith…as found in our catechism.

    The second dogma that came at Vatican I, was the immaculate conception. The pope looked at the tradition of faith people have had for almost 2 millenia in regards to the sinless nature of the Blessed Mother. So the pope consulted with all the bishops, they all agreed, and thus the pope was able to declare the Immaculate Conception as the 2nd dogma of faith.

    the third dogma was done by Pope Pius XII, the Assumption of Mary into heaven. Note the word, ‘assumption’. It is taken from ‘assume’. Mary did not sin, did not earn the wages of death. So we don’t know how she left this world….whether she died as Our Lord or if she went to sleep….but we do know she was gloriously assumed into heaven.

    so the Church has only 3 dogmas, but about 2,865 doctrines of faith.

    The pope cannot go against the deposit of faith and canon law prevents him. If he were to do so…he cannot as the Holy Spirit will not allow him. And as far as bad popes have been, they were never able to definitively teach anything, the Holy Spirit preventing them.

    There are no more doctrines or dogmas of faith. (dogmas come from the ‘sense’ of Scripture).

    So how popes speak to us are in letters, and not all letters carry the same weight. You have your local bishop who instructs the laity on the degree of ‘truth’ in a pastoral letter by a pope.Pope Paul VI instructed all seminaries teach in Latin. They refused. They just did.

    When Francis speaks as such…who he is addressing are the Muslims of peace. I recall a Muslim man saying that those who do wrong do not represent true Islam. And I have read that passages were added that were violent and oppressive.

    He is not serving us well by speaking as such.

    and know that 70% of the American bishops disagreed with him, Kasper, Marx, et al regarding the Synod of the family, and the pope rebuked them. And his latest encyclical is to be presented before the Magesterium of the Church and an American priest on EWTN said there were parts that would not pass the Magesterium as orthodox and binding.

    So…we don’t put all our eggs in one basket, we never put our trust in one man, but only in God alone. It is on you to study your faith, study the nature and mission of the Church by an orthodox Roman Catholic cleric who will not compromise the truth of what the Church is to be and do.

    It is on you to study your faith and the catechism.

    You follow your conscience. As I keep up on what Francis says, and read accurate sources, and have gotten use to him, I take his off the cuff remarks as something to not dwell on and move on. And watch him on EWTN being very papal in his daily dealings running the Church.

    And note that the media and other sources twist his wordings around. A priest got up and showed what the pope actually said showing papers, vs what the media did and causing people to pull away from the pope..they must have former highly educated catholics in there to do such or know our traditions of faith.

    If you go about your diocese, I am sure you will encounter a clear, orthodox Catholic priest who does not compromise. We have them here.

    And finally, I know 2 pastors who told me they held back from confronting dissenting Catholics because if they stood their ground, the bishop would back the dissenters and not the pastor for not being pastoral. So they be quiet and go about avoiding any controversy. Now our diocese has a very good bishop, and we just saw someone now searching for a direction in life….meaning they left their position before their time…and it took the bishop a number of years to get up to do this…

  • Julie

    You have to back and read better, line for line. The pope can never contradict the deposit of faith. And if he does, the Holy Spirit prevents him from teaching…that is what our instructor taught us who was teaching us infallibility.

    Again, the dogma was developed…looking back 1800 years…of this deferring to the pope in silence by the entire Church. I don’t mean the Orthodox here. But this silence just didn’t stay…the bishops uphold orthodoxy…I am referring to the case where a pope excommunicated a bishop for excommunicating an apostate who defected during persecution and also was a slave. The pope himself had been a slave some time ago in his life. there was silence…obedience…then a bishop confronted the pope about his treatment of the bishop who was only being faithful and holding up what was the norm in place. then another bishop came forward, and then the pope re instated the formerly excommunicated bishop.

    This election was a valid election and we have a valid pope. But on pastoral matters, we follow our conscience and he says alot of remarks that for the most part either I check it out what he really said or ignore.

    Again…when the pope teaches in an encyclical, it cannot contradict our faith…also I would say the liturgy as all movements and actions repeat Scripture and the nature of Christ. You cannot switch rubrics without invalidating the Mass. There is Canon Law…which also forbids a pope to teach opposite of our faith.

    Anti popes were indeed fallible. They did not have the grace of office to teach on faith and morals. I read one anti pope called a council…Constance?…that did not bear good fruit and the valid pope later on abrogated the council’s decision(s). Anti popes were elected by split congregations….I don’t know much….but if you read about the schism during St. Catherine’s time, she encouraged the valid pope in Avignon to return to Rome to lead the Church…and there were 2 others who were invalid but put in by factions.

    again Council of Trent corrected alot of such problems.

    There really is nothing for the pope to teach infallibly…and again…all the bishops must agree with him. Some points in his last encyclical do not reflect the deposit of faith…but that doesn’t invalidate him as pope either.

    You should tune into EWTN on tv or http://www.nationalcatholicregister.com. Both objectively quote him, enlighten us, or…as was the case on EWTN recently, an American priest doubted about some parts of the encyclical passing the magesterium theologians. The theologians also do not have the position to remove a pope.

    So you have to take it on yourself to get a Catechism, go to a solid RCIA class like Trevor is now doing….I am in an area of the city that I would not at all recommend someone go to this one parish as the formation director is not following some traditions of our faith and for dubious reasons that to me she is not fully a converted Catholic. I am in a parish where we have a retired deacon who is doing RCIA , most devout Catholic.

    So you have to check out the parish. If you have been away it is hard.

    there is some sites out there. http://www.romancatholicman.com…OnePeter…one of our writers has contributed to it….www.onepeterfive.com/what-did-the-saints-say-about-Islam

    yes…the communion of saints..so many charism but all bearing the same fruit of Christ…and you grow in the ‘sense’ of faith.

    The final comment is we are to uphold the Standard of the Cross as true religion. We cannot control what comes out of others’ mouths, but we are obligated to study and learn, not just from books but from the people themselves who represent them.

    I am seeing that anyone who goes into militant Islam….is a sick person…sin is sickness. Most people are ordinary and want to make a life for themselves and live in peace with others.

    God bless! and persevere…Christ said those who seek the Truth will find it.

  • Julie

    Check out Bishop Athanasius Schneider…mentioned in an article here…great pastor….salt of the earth and stood up to those promoting the slippery slope at the Synod of the Family. People have been sending emails across the country of some of his pastoral teachings.

  • Julie

    I don’t wiggle out of anything. Fact is no lay person has any authority to change liturgy or to make reform.

    The Catechism is the Council of Trent with greater in depth explanation.

    The Guidelines for the Roman Missal are the mandatory instruction for all.

  • Julie

    Doubt it…you don’t accept any popes.

    You think our Lord would not provide us a pastor for all those missing times we didn’t have a pope?

    My daughter went with her friend’s family who go to a schismatic church. One friend asked where was the bathroom, and the woman slapped her from behind for being disrespectful.

    Any Catholic who does not endure in charity will not only lose eternal life but will be that much more punished.

    We don’t go to heaven by worship alone. we go to heaven with our union with Christ, with or without Bergoglio.

  • Georgeorwell

    was not my intention to rail against you. I would just advise caution in teaching this position. In its extreme it leads to a Church that has fallen to the gates of hell based only on speculation. We do not have all of the objective facts and we do not know how God is using this pope. We must obey and trust God.

  • Tom_mcewen

    When I was young there was a term used call Hearts and Minds. Some in command thought grabbing them by the walnuts was getting both. It had limited success, machine fire was another approach, while I am in favor of that approach, in this event, the Pope is mandated from preforming this act because no matter how satisfying that is, it will not fix the problem. The church started out as 11 scared men who didn’t strike back with swords, but bled instead. There is no answer but grace and time. Killing ten men is fine, but it is better to kill five and three walk away and two come to understand that things must change. He is PETER, if he says fight I will fight, if he says wait I will wait, if he says suffer I will suffer, I am a man under authority. There are absolutely no good choices in war, I prefer to put it off, even if it is washing the feet of people I would rather kill. War will be here soon enough I can wait abit.

  • Julie

    A pope could be but not teach against faith and morals, the Holy Spirit prevents that.

    A schismatic does not accept a lawfully voted in pope. Francis is.

    I read an article now deciding Francis teaches by exuberance rather than words.

    I do not believe in the Word Made Exuberance.

  • Julie

    Modern encyclicals do not abrogate prior. And each encyclical has its own degree of truth.

    And….the priest facing the altar, the communion rails, receiving on the tongue, keeping Latin Mass in every parish around the world was thrown out by those from the ‘Rheinland….’

    Try to get hold of P Benedict’s, ‘Spirit of the Liturgy’. It may appease you.

    I am going to hopefully a Pontifical High Mass celebrated by our bishop soon.

  • Julie

    You have to differentiate when he is teaching in the spirit of the Church an when he is being exuberant.

  • Julie

    I think you need to pray for true discernment and get educated on Church history.

    You are into an ignorant based, isolated American base sect that came out just 150 years ago….who sustained the Church for all this time?

    God has not called us to be mindless fools, but to be in His image…through intellect and reason.

  • Julie

    Here…I found a great site…excellent and totally well founded with everything you should study to become a true Catholic….

    If I gave it to you before, sorry am having an aging moment.

    http://www.romancatholicman.com

  • Michelle Therese

    We need altar rails back!! Kneeling on the floor level with a priest’s crotch, or standing in his face and flopping out the tongue… it is all very crude and not at all reverent. Taking communion in the hand seems far more reverent when we have to take communion without altar rails. I am serious!!

    As a woman, for me to have to kneel with my face at the priest’s crotch, or to have to get physically much too close to the priest in order to stick my tongue out for the Eucharist, it is totally ridiculous and I avoid this by taking communion in the hand. I am sure plenty of men and boys probably feel the same!

    An altar rail places a noticeable barrier, you also kneel on a slightly raised section that lifts your face above the crude posture of kneeling on the floor, and allows the little dish to be placed beneath the chin ~ it is all done very civilized and with appropriate separation between the communicants and the priest, good and proper and not at all crude.

    I heartily support “communion on the tongue” but I do not do so in churches without altar rails, it is also very difficult with arthritic knees and also disturbing, not to mention the crude posture we must assume. Why the altar rails were ever taken away in the first place is utterly baffling. What we should be doing is demanding the return of the altar rails ~ and the reverence shown to the Eucharist at Mass will soon return as well!

    Until then I doubt that most Catholics will feel at all reverent taking communion on the tongue in such a crude manner without the altar rails present.

  • Michelle Therese

    (Side bar: I am always confused by this communion-in-the-hand debate being made as if communion in the hand was some 1960’s crazy invention. I researched it when I first became Catholic and found many references from the early church Fathers regarding the taking of communion in the hand. For example:

    “When thou goest to receive communion go not with thy wrists extended, nor with thy fingers separated, but placing thy left hand as a throne for thy right, which is to receive so great a King, and in the hollow of the palm receive the body of Christ, saying, Amen.”
    (St. Cyril from http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/communion.html)…)

  • Julie

    RomanCatholicMan will provide you all the application to the Deposit of Faith, not the Word Made Exuberance….that is how they are describing Francis now. We all know a good teacher is a clear and consistent one.

  • Julie

    Yes….go to http://www.RomanCatholicMan.com…that provides you excellent, top notch Catholic material. It is sympathetic to your position. I totally support the Seat of Peter, the Primacy of Peter.

    But it is on us to learn our faith more, nobody can do it for us, and doing so helps us separate the human from the divine.

  • Julie

    THanks again…most just turn on me and get worse….so I always now debate whether or not to bother.

  • Georgeorwell

    Protestants since Luther have judged every Pope as the anti-christ and false profit. Did these men have the “right” to judge the pope based upon their subjective belief? Its a slippery slope that should be avoided in the public forum that’s all I am saying.

    • antimodernist

      The difference is that they judged him by their own made up standards such as Luther’s doctrine on justification, which is completely at odds with Catholic teaching. However, Bergoglio is saying that Luther did not err on justification (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-text-pope-francis-inflight-press-conference-from-armenia-45222/). So who then is the Catholic and who follows Luther?

      • Georgeorwell

        i have seen no proof from any source whatsoever that the magisterium of the Church grants the authority to judge the pope to the pew sitting Catholic, and I have read the Bulls and other documents on this. The fact a pope discusses this does not mean he intends his document to be published to or apply to the lay faithful. That being said, tell me what you have to say to the below:

        Okay we have no pope and haven’t for, depending on which sede you talk to, 50 to 100 years. What is a Catholic supposed to do with this information? How does it effect the salvation of the average practicing Catholic? Are all Catholics who go to mass where they pray for the Pope committing mortal sin and bound to the hell fires?