Major UK Politicians Declare To British And Irish Catholics ‘Your Presence Is Unwelcome’

England and Ireland are among some of the oldest lands in the ancient Christian world, and both have undergone considerable persecution at various points in history, be it from without or from within. Now according to a recent article, the few Christians left in the British Isles are finding themselves the subject of a growing persecution at the hands of their own governments, who see Christians and Christians as something ‘no longer acceptable’ in society:

For a long time, Irish and British Catholics who might be described as orthodox or “conservative,” have been running into difficulties for their beliefs, both inside and outside the Church.

What may be hinted at, here, but is not immediately apparent from the text, is that the latest wave of persecution is, by no means, confined to the orthodox and outspoken.

For some time now, Catholics who publicly voiced concerns about any localized ambiguity in Church teaching— over, for example, the Divinity of Jesus or the sinfulness of contraception and homosexual acts—have been derided both by the media and within certain quarters of the Church.

The carefully crafted media image of the “ideal Catholic” — from an aggressive secularist point of view — therefore, was exemplified by the former Catholic Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in 2009, when fielding a challenge about plans to legalize same-sex civil unions, from then Drogheda-based priest Father John Hogan.

Minister Dermot Ahern said, that he didn’t “bring whatever religion he has to the table,” when he legislated, particularly as a Government minister.

This sort of position used to be applauded by what Bishop William Crean of Cloyne, has referred to as Ireland’s “political and media establishments.”

Fast forward eight years, and the very philosophy of “tolerance” once lauded by the establishment in 2009 and earlier, is no longer tolerated in 2017.

It would be very unfair to Tim Farron, to suggest that, in common with the Irish former minister, he didn’t “bring whatever religion he has to the table” (in fact, Farron has a record of either abstaining or voting with anti-abortion groups in Parliament).

But, by making it clear in his resignation speech that he was “a liberal to (his) fingertips” who did not consider himself to be one of those “Christians in politics who take the view that they should impose the tenets of their faith on society,” the Evangelical Christian was certainly promoting a position which, just a short time ago, would have been far more acceptable to the media establishment than it clearly is today.

Indeed, in April of this year, an apparently exasperated Farron, defending himself in Parliament, claimed that he was “very proud” to have voted in favor of the U.K.’s Gay Marriage Bill in 2013, adding that the then government “did not go as far as it should have done in terms of recognizing transgender rights.”

But it is not only British politicians who appear bewildered by the new turn of events. In Ireland, priests and religious not known for their conservative views have expressed shock, not only at the extent but also at the focus of much of the recent anti-Catholic sentiment.

Sister Stanislaus Kennedy a well-known popular figure with the Irish media had, for example, very publicly expressed her support for a ‘Yes’ vote in the gay marriage or so-called “equality” referendum in 2015. She is also in favor of contraception. But Sister Stanislaus is also a member of the Religious Sisters of Charity, an order which until recently owned and controlled three major hospitals in Ireland.

Following a relentless media campaign against plans to allow the sisters to own the planned new National Maternity Hospital, which was to be built on their grounds, the order, in spite of having the effective support of some abortion advocates, decided to end their involvement in the management of all three of their Dublin hospitals and announced their intention to hand over control and ownership to a new group that would formally comply with Irish laws rather than Catholic medical ethics.

Later, a surprised and hurt sounding Sister Stanislaus, told the national broadcaster RTÉ that “it was unfair to the Sisters of Charity, a lot of things that were said” and “it’s not nice to hear your order criticized wrongly, really, accused wrongly. It’s not nice.”

Significantly, she added, “it was very much media lead all that stuff … absolutely.”

The recognition of the media agenda against the Church by someone who would be seen as a “liberal/progressive” voice in the Church is marking an unusual point of unity between “liberals” and “conservatives”, in Ireland.

A similar trend can be seen in religious education in Ireland.

While conservative Catholics have long had much to complain about in terms of the poor standards of religious formation in Catholic schools, there is now a strong media campaign against laws decried as ‘discriminatory’ which, in reality, help protect the ethos of such schools, even where much of the damage to this ethos has already been done and has been self-inflicted — a Catholic school for girls in Dublin, for example, recently, decided to remove the cross from its insignia lest it would cause offence.

This campaign is in parallel with moves to divest Catholic schools and transfer ownership to groups with a secular ideology.

The message is clear, in Ireland and in Britain, alike, the persecution of the Christian faith has just been ratcheted up a notch. Christianity, no matter what form it takes, has now become unacceptable to the political and media establishments.

Does this represent a scorched earth policy by the forces of secularism to pre-empt even the possibility of the return of an overwhelmingly faith-filled “Catholic Ireland” or “Dowry of Mary,” for example? It would certainly seem so.

In any case, after several years of seeing people of faith not bringing their religious beliefs to the table of public policy, and being put to the top of the class for their tolerance, it now appears that not just the publicly expressed beliefs of Christians but Christians themselves, “domesticated” or otherwise, are no longer welcome at that table either. (source)

Back in 2010, accusations of sexual abuse and misconduct in Ireland exploded into a full scale crisis detailing what began in the USA scarcely a decade earlier. Certainly many of these crimes were real and needed to be reported on.  That said, know that the reason why such a deal was made about the sexual abuse crisis in Ireland was not because they actually care about the Church. Just like the National Socialists, these people are using real facts as a means to leverage support for anti-Christian persecution, beginning with the Church and spreading to the entire society.

This situation in England and Ireland has been building for a long time, and those who are actively pursuing a renewed persecution of the Church will use any means possible to achieve their own ends, which is ultimately the destruction of Christianity.

Likewise, if you have good information about a priest, bishop, or member of the clergy who is involved in homosexual activity, who is abusing children, or is using his power to advance the agenda of Sodom and Gomorrah, please contact us so that we can expose the evil agents who have infiltrated the Church and draw them out as a doctor draws poison from a wound.

CHRISTIANS ARE BEING TORTURED AND MURDERED AS WE SPEAK. PLEASE CLICK HERE TO GIVE A DONATION THAT WILL HELP OUR RESCUE TEAM

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  • AnthonyM

    Very true words you wrote. “That said, know that the reason why such a deal was made about the sexual abuse crisis in Ireland was not because they actually care about the Church. Just like the National Socialists, these people are using real facts as a means to leverage support for anti-Christian persecution, beginning with the Church and spreading to the entire society.”

    • Coombes Larry

      And the clerics are all quislings who cannot secularise fast enough!

      Us few orthodox Christian were bewildered as to why the priests and bishops WOULD NOT FIGHT!!! Then the truth came out… many were homosexual, almost all were heretics and had close connections with the politicians and the likes of ‘Stonewall.’

      There is, as I understand, one single actual orthodox Catholic Bishop across the entire British Isles. Benedict understood the problem and was trying to force reform in the UK but he was ‘taken down’ very soon after he went for Westminster and Francis has just rolled over in regards to the UK.

      Now I just wait to see the inevitable play out. There is a time when a nation goes too far and God withdraws his grace. This is by the way, shown in part by the utter apostacy of the British. The people I knew who were on fire Christians who have rolled over and gone secular is amazing! And it has reached the point where there are so few Christians left in the country that they end up having to marry non-Christians who then convert them to atheism or Islam.

      One way or another the UK is headed for tyranny. It’s already 75% the way there. I have known Russians who lived through the days of the USSR who have complained that the level of regulation EXCEEDED that of the old Soviet regime!

      • Стефан Евгений

        You may find this interesting CL, there is hope. I have Russian kin in London and they tell me the same, how burdensome the UK laws are. I tell the same story to Americans.

        Fr Seraphim Speaking on the Monastery of All Celtic Saints located on the Isle of Mull

        • Coombes Larry

          Will look at this later. Thanks.
          In my case, God actively called me out, tho. Maybe there is hope but I have yet to find a people whose heart is more closed to the Gospel than the British.

      • Grandmere

        Things are just as bad with the CofE. So bad in the Cof Scotland that The Anglican Church in North America had to consecrate a missionary Bishop for Scotland. The Abp.of Canterbury had a snit fit but we told him to go back and see what Athenasius did. I pray for my Catholic and Anglican friends in the UK.

        • Coombes Larry

          Yeah The CoE is basically totally apostate and is having it’s general Synod which, after kicking out any orthodox bishops, is now 100% about sex and transgender rites.
          At least the Catholic Bishops PRETEND to be Orthodox!
          But, overall, the clerics in the UK – across the established denominations – are quislings.

          • Grandmere

            But we have GAFCON. We will take it over. We have the numbers.

        • Joan Simpson

          Hello Grandmere. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you have written. The C of Scotland is Presbyterian. There are only 2 Anglican churches in Scotland, St Thomas’ in Edinburgh and St Silas in Glasgow. There are many Scottish Episcopal Churches countrywide, within the Anglican communion.

          • Grandmere

            Sorry, Joan. I should have said ECS (Episcopal Church of Scotland). Thanks for catching that for me.

  • CTyank

    Amen.

  • filomena seiffert

    England is a evil empire from long ago, killed many priest and lay people impose the rule of the demon henry VIII, committed genocide in Ireland, dominated and slaved countries, it is only the fruits of a evil tree. God was not to put up with it, He let them immersed in their own appetites. It is the full grace of God, abandoned them.

  • Coombes Larry

    Yes. This I foresaw.

    Also, the British are WILLINGLY brainwashed and utterly HATE Christianity.
    When it comes to the show trials and imprisonment of Christians the British people will cheer. The underlying hatred of Christianity is really profound… so much so that – after much prayer and discernment, I jumped to the far East.

    The trouble is that the British are now soaked in the free sex culture and WILL NOT hear the Christian. Plus, the clerical class are completely in the pockets of the secularists and actively work against the few remaining Christians who usually drop the religion. Christianity is all but dead in the UK and I do not expect any kind of revival soon.

    If history plays out, Great Monarchs notwithstanding, the UK will go through around 70 years of tyranny, Christianity will die out completely but then an underground Church will miraculous form – bitterly persecuted – and then come back to power after the UK completely collapses economically and cultural and the madness passes.

    I am far more cynical about the UK than Indonesia. I tried very hard to reach the British but it was impossible because THEY WOULD NOT HEAR!! It was willful blindness. In the end, the British had made their choice. “We will not have your God!”
    “All right then. You’ve made your choice. I’ll accept it. Now I will go to… the Gentiles (as it were.)”

    • Julie

      An English Catholic told me they have to keep a low profile.

      Here the English have a particular hatred for the papacy. First 30 of them were martyrs…

      • Coombes Larry

        Interesting. I did not find in my days in the UK that Catholics had to keep a low profile. They were accepted until about the 1990’s. Then, the revolution came.

        Now Catholics are DESPISED but for different reasons than in the old days.
        First England was Catholic. Then it went Protestant and Catholic were FIERCELY persecuted. Then, over a long time, Catholics were accepted as equals. Then came the sexual revolution (and with it creeping Communism) and now all Christians are utterly despised and Christianity is hated.
        The UK is now an ipso facto atheistic state.

        Frankly, by this stage, I would advise British Christians to get out. We know what happens to them in atheistic states. The trouble is that there are very few safe havens that would take them in now. I was lucky/blessed.

        • Julie

          May 13, 1982, in Seattle, WA, when JPII was shot and almost killed, I visited a new Catholic bookstore…and on the shelf was Catholic prophecy and broke my tepidity…and it said the island with many kinds of people would be covered by water by a comet, but then it would rise afterwards resplendant….

          • Coombes Larry

            Yes. I still have to finish my book for Walid.

            But I have MORE emergency exam classes today!!! It seems exam season never quite finishes… Hiding in hotels on days off so the mothers cannot hunt me down!!!

          • Grandmere

            Do you teach English, Larry? I can’t recall if you have ever said what you teach. I assume you either tutor or run a small school of some kind.

          • Coombes Larry

            All of the above! Sort of!
            I used to teach English at a local English school but the Government here – for various reasons – does not like foreign influence in education and it has become IMPOSSIBLE to get work visas in education. So I had no choice to set up my own private tuition business this year… although, because demand for competent Native English Speakers VASTLY outweighs supply I was always worked to exhaustion at the old place anyway. As it was, I had to have the students to come to my home rather than travelling to their homes so it has been refitted as a sort of school. Though… because of the local Government’s paranoia regarding foreign teachers I cannot advertise or put a sign outside my home! So I have to recruit purely through reputation and word of mouth! Fortunately, that has worked well for me. I get good results and the mother get to see improvements in their children’s grades very quickly. They then boast of their child’s achievement to the other mothers who then rush to get their kid the “Larry treatment.” My schedule is for August onwards is SOLID and I have had to do ***deals*** with the mothers to get two days off a week! I am turning clients down now and referring work.
            Yes, I do teach English but it’s not so much grammar (“Phew!” say a large number of readers of my posts) and vocabulary as conceptual stuff and key skills for International standard curriculums at International schools which only the richest of the rich can afford. I live in a very affluent area where education is the number 1 priority of said parents. That is not the case in a lot of Indonesia. Note that these parents have had to fight against initiatives to try and close down International education completely here! I teach the students how to write fiction, discursive and descriptive essays, how to improve reading skills and the like.
            I enjoy my work and get on very well with my students. A lot of the poor mites are overloaded with extra-curricular classes with private tutors and I am the only one that gives them breaks! I also reward achievement with easy classes and anime! The fact I am an anime fan is a real bonding point with the kids. “Deliver me a decent story using the Larry method and the rest of the class we watch anime…” and the kids start scribbling fast! Really turns up results! Every other tutor they have and good work is rewarded with… more work. They get sick of it and start slacking off just to survive.
            So it’s very rewarding as I make quite a difference for the students and I have something of big kid in me anyway. But it is very, very tiring and final exam season is back breaking! It’s not 24/7 but definitely 12/7 for six solid months! And every time I think I have given my last revision class another student turns up with yet another exam they have to take upon which their entire future is decided! Neither my wife nor I can stand by May and we still have to crawl through the month ahead. As it is I am now paranoid and when I get a day off I am hiding in local hotels to avoid students just turning up at the gates! That’s not hyperbole. The parents do not take “No” for an answer when it comes to final exams and will just drop their children off at my front gate to force an extra class.
            No phone call, no text, no notice at all.
            I have opened the door to go out to get a bite to eat and there has been a student at the gate expecting a zero notice extra revision class.
            Eating and sleeping get very interrupted.
            I *think* I had my final exam class today but I keep saying that… The fact is the exam season starts from February through until July and I cannot assume that final exams are over until I hit the last week of July when the last school in the local area closes for holidays. I cannot take any leave during that time. But I am telling the mothers that it is new rules from August through until January where I get two days off a week, public holidays and leave so am able to handle exam season next year. But I know I will have to retreat to local hotels during August so I am not at home while the mothers deal with this new reality. I know some of them will nod and smile and then drop their children off anyway. I have to make it so they assume I am not at home on days off so they stop trying to get just one more class… Yes, the more kids are overloaded. I have had mothers fighting over my time!! It get really obsessive.
            So… Walid’s book is happening but it is very much a background task while I try to regain my strength. And, you can imagine how I really cannot face anything to do with academia right now. I have started on piecing together a new AMV (Anime music video) for light relief and I am going to take a holiday at the end of this month.
            Once I have recovered a bit more I can move on the book faster but I am only just past the sleeping eighteen hours a day stage of recovery. Again, not hyperbole.
            So now you know! 😉

          • Grandmere

            Thanks, Larry. I had guessed much of what you say though your previous posts. I totally “get” what you said about the emphasis on English proficiency in Asia. You may have to limit the number of pupils and become more exclusive, lest you work yourself into an early grave. It is nice to have your perspective.

          • Julie

            That is OK. Heard today Scotland has 7 new priests ordained.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Could be Australia?

          • Grandmere

            Nice to see you back, Pero. I think an even better candidate is New Zealand. They have multiple earthquakes daily and just had two big ones. They lie right on a plate boundary . Check out Dutchsinse on you tube for his nightly earthquake updates and forecast. He is usually extremely accurate.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Hi there Grandmere… actually, you are right. Obviously I was biased in my thinking for obvious reasons :o) Yet logically speaking… yes, New Zealand makes sense. Hope all is well with you?

          • Grandmere

            All is well, brother. God is good, all the time. And all the time, God is good. My prayers are with you and your family.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Good to hear that all is well. And God ain’t good He is amazing!!! God bless you and yours :o)

          • Julie

            Written in context of Europe…some think America..

            I just heard on Catholic radio that Scotland is getting vocations and 7 priests ordained….

          • Pero Ercegovac

            OK, thanks. Seven priests is positive for Scotland. Lets pray for more.

          • Woody

            Viva Our Lady of Good Success!

        • Pero Ercegovac

          You realise that that the titular head of state, the monarch of the UK, is not allowed to be Catholic? Catholics have always been looked down upon in Britain by the elite. Sectarianism even defined football for over a century, i.e. the Old Firm rivalry of Protestant Loyalist Rangers and Catholic Republican Celtic in Glasgow. This divide even was felt in the colonies, such as in Australia, up until the end of WWII when European displaced people arrived in over a million within a 15 year period. Up until the 1990s there was even a tacit agreement within the then NSW Police Force (now NSW Police Service) that the commissioner of police would if a mason next time round be a Catholic and vice versa. It was done to keep the peace between the two communities from the 1890s onward.

          • Joan Simpson

            Sadly the divisions between the Catholics and Protestants in Scotland were inflamed because of the numbers of Irish who came to Scotland as a result of the Irish potato famines. Imagine Scotland having the influx of people comparable with what is happening in Europe with the Muslims and you can understand why competition for jobs and housing led to violence. There was no social security in those days.
            The divisions are dying out due to Scots embracing evolution thus leaving all branches of Christianity behind. Scotland is no longer a Christian country – atheism and Islam are vying for ascendancy.
            When I was a child, the Catholic and Protestant schools started and finished at different times to try to prevent violence between the young children. It wasn’t always successful. By the time they attended secondary schools all children had learned to behave. These were the days when the tawse ensured obedience.
            Scotland needs a Christian revival

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Yep, and the same divides due to the potato famine were to occur quite significantly in Lancashire especially along the Mersey, specifically Liverpool, which essentially became an Irish Catholic city, and Manchester. I agree with you that a Christian revival has to occur not just in Scotland but throughout England and unfortunately now in Ireland as well.

          • Grandmere

            Scotland is such a beautiful place. I will always remember my visit. God bless you, Joan.

          • Coombes Larry

            Gads! A lot of replies and I am out tomorrow.

            So some quick responses.

            Yes, I am aware these matters but they were minor matters in the sense that no Catholic wanted to be the monarch! In days gone by the UK was certainly Anti-Catholic but things changed a LOT in the 20thC and Catholics were seen as part of the UK in generally good standing and respected.
            Honest,
            But now, all Christians of any stripe are ***despised*** and I can see it becoming violent.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            No Catholic wanted to be a Monarch?! The last one who was at least a crypto-Catholic had his head lobbed off. Nope, one cannot be a Catholic and Monarch of England due in the main due to the fact that the titular Head of the High Church of England is in fact the monarch. But I do agree that things had levelled out by the end of the 20th century, and yes that is due to the fact that most Christians are despised.

          • Grandmere

            Yeah. That was funny, since a Catholic could not be the head of the C of E. Maybe he was suffering from tutorial fatigue.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Ha ha ha… all is possible in God’s wonderful world :o)

          • Joan Simpson

            The old and the young pretenders, (from the French meaning claimants) were both Catholic and wanted the throne

          • Coombes Larry

            When I said, “Nobody wanted the crown” I was talking about the common man.
            When it was discussed just before I left the UK – whether the crown could be given to a Catholic, it was a big yawn by the Catholics.
            Yes, the UK has been fiercely anti-Catholic. Queen Elizabeth I was one of the greatest Catholic persecutors in history!

            But, by the 20th Century, especially after Catholics fought hard for th British Isles in the 1st world war, the UK saw Catholics in a positive light. Yes, constitutionally the UK has to be Protestant or the succession goes BANG! And Catholic understand that. But they were OK as long as they could practise their faith and not be discriminated against socially. All was well…
            Until the 1960’s.
            Since then it was been one fast ride into the abyss and now ALL Christians are totally despised and, frankly, only about one step away from being rounded up. Heck, your job is at risk if/when it is discovered you are a Christian bigot!!

          • Grandmere

            She signed the Act of Toleration to try to end the killing. At least give her credit for that. She and Mary were both persecuted by their father because they were females and E had to keep her head down just to keep it attached to her body during Mary’s reign. The whole thing was messed up because of primogeniture.

          • Joan Simpson

            There was no UK when Elizabeth I sat on the ENGLISH throne. Her half sister was no saint either!

          • Grandmere

            SNAP!

        • Julie

          So sad.

          I didn’t realize how many Irish died under the English in the past…

          • Grandmere

            It was appalling!

          • Tom_mcewen

            It may have been Gladstone who said as he traveled through Ireland said, “I travelled 500 miles through Ireland and saw nothing but the faces of chimpanzees looking in the carriage window.”

    • Woody

      “In the End My Immaculate Heart will conquer.”

  • Joan Simpson

    I have to ask why Scotland hasn’t been mentioned? The Irish who were converted by the Coptic missionaries, then sent missionaries to Scotland. This was more than 100 years before Augustine set foot in England.
    The Irish missionaries did go to North England – Lindesfarne, but this is an anachronism because neither England or Scotland existed then in the form they do today.

    • Pero Ercegovac

      Too true. They were Gaelic speaking nations then, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it was a good two centuries, or less, before the Saxon invasions. Around the 4th century?

      • Joan Simpson

        Gaelic with an ‘A’ as in cake is the Irish language.
        Gaelic with an ‘A’ as in apple is the Scottish Highland language.
        Gaelic was never spoken in the Scotland south of the Highlands. A form of Welsh – a related language was spoken there and gradually was replaced by old English…..etc.
        You’ll find the Saxon invasions with Google

        • Pero Ercegovac

          As you can tell I am writing in modern English hence the use of the letter “A”. OK, so what was the language spoken by the Celts there at the time? I was once at a pub presentation in Coleraine where a huge argument broke out on whether or not the indigenous folk of Britain were converted prior to the Saxon invasion of what we know today as England. The counter argument which the Protestants for some reason did not like was that the argument was irrelevant as by the collapse of Rome in 476 AD Roman Britain was significantly Christianised to an extent. People forget that one of the early disciples of early British Christianity was in fact St Alban who was a priest and confessor to the mother of Constantine. So which is it with you? Was what was to become England whence the Angles arrived with the Saxon mercenaries already Christian or did these Celts convert them after the fall of Rome?

          • Joan Simpson

            Can I suggest you research the various tribes and their distribution within the now united Scotland, Wales and England. Our modern world, influenced by evolution tends to look back to the BC-AD time as primitive. Not so, these people had wisdom and knowledge we know nothing of. They sailed the seas, even going to the Americas. Pontius Pilate was born in Fortingall for although Rome did not conquer Scotland( and indeed had a couple of attempts to conquer England,) many skirmishes took place including a huge battle called Mons Graupius which the Picts won. There are Roman remains all the way up the Scottish East coast. There are Roman roads as well. But the Romans never conquered us.
            I’ve told you the language the Celts spoke. Look at the distribution of the people groups. I’m not doing your research for you!!! You’ll find early Scottish history online.
            You also need to look at the influence Queen Margaret had in the destruction of the Celtic church (The kelidei or Culdees)
            There are many Scottish place names associated with the Celtic church. Dunkeld I have already mentioned – the same ‘Kel’ as in the Book of Kells. Then there is Kirkcaldy. a corruption of Kirk (church) of the Culdees and Dysart, a corruption of Desert of the Desert Fathers. These are just a few.
            Just today the good old BBC has told us that St Columba’s tomb on Iona has been identified even though it was found in the 1950s Columba came from Ireland in a coracle. He was the one who cursed the Loch Ness monster. (Probably a plesiosaur)
            I wont be attempting to answer your ‘either or’ question gleaned from a pub conversation!! There is more heat than light there.
            All you want to know is available online. Have a look at the early church fathers – Tertullian, Origen etc they speak of Christianity having reached these Islands early on. The believers did, ‘go into all the world and preached the Gospel’.

          • Pero Ercegovac

            Thanks for your lengthy reply, and please do not take this the wrong way but I have no time to search about your mob when I am currently researching my own boys, whose history is equally as rich throughout this time of Roman history. I will just enjoy following and learning from your posts.
            Of course I have heard about Origen and Tertullian, currently doing a lot of research into Jeronim (St Jerome). One of my mob and his emergence during the commencement of the decline of Roman interests once they thought they had removed the Illyrian and Dalmatian threat is interesting. A very important figure not only in the Church but also in movement of the Dinaric peoples to more autonomy in Rome post-Constantine.

          • Joan Simpson

            No problem. I think that is the problem with modern education. I am getting past my sell by date, but a lot of what I have told you is remembered from my childhood education when we were proud to be Scots and not part of multiculturalism. We had our identity in our history and of course in Christ. Sadly most Scots today no very little about their antecedents.(take away a person’s identity and they are easier to control)
            Some of it like Tertulian etc was researched for when some Jehovah’s Witnesses were visiting me. We had disagreed about how early Christianity had reached these Islands and knowing about Pilate I did research to get more accurate info. I have it laid away somewhere which I could find if I took the time to find it. Needless to say the JWs ignored the history to believe what their uneducated leaders had told them.
            Happy to be of help. Enjoy your own research.

          • CTyank

            Very interesting, Joan. I’ll have to do some more reading!

          • CTyank

            There is more heat than light there. Good line. I’ll have to try to remember that one!

    • Стефан Евгений

      Joan, they were Orthodox not Copts.

      The Return of Ancient Wisdom: Building the Monastery of All Celtic Saints after 1000 years

      • Joan Simpson

        Can I suggest you either research it or speak to a Coptic Abouna? The evidence is available online.
        There are Coptic Orthodox Churches in the UK. I personally attended the opening of a Coptic Church by the late Pope Shenouda III.
        Ireland and Scotland had links with Egypt before Christianity.
        http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends-europe/scota-mother-scotland-and-daughter-pharaoh-003798
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scota
        The Stone of Scone (Scone is about 16 miles from Dunkeld where there was a Celtic Monastery) traditionally is Jacob’s pillow when he dreamt of the angels ascending and descending on the ladder.
        Regrettably your link doesn’t open

        • Стефан Евгений

          There was no Coptic mission to Ireland or Scotland in the 6th ct AD. try this link
          https://mullmonastery.com/

          • Joan Simpson

            I never said it was the 6th Century. The info is available if you take the time to research it. I also prefer to believe the history I researched and also that told to me by the present Abouna in the local Coptic Church. A very well educated man who knows the history of his denomination and very gracious with it.

          • Стефан Евгений

            He is feeding you a line so according to him St Oran,St Columba and St Fillan were Copts? copts separated from Orthodoxy in the fourth century AD

          • Joan Simpson

            The Celtic church developed out from the Coptic missionaries to Ireland. I printed out the relevant history several years ago. I would need to look for it. I keep animals and very soon will need to attend to them for the night. It is 2120 here. If I get a chance afterwards I I will look it out and give you the link. Surely you don’t doubt the Copts know their own history?

          • Joan Simpson

            I cannot find the print out I was looking for. Tomorrow is another day when hopefully I will find it with refreshed eyes. I found this in, ‘An Overview of the Coptic Orthodox Church’.
            It is in the chapter about Coptic Art and its influence throughout the world.
            “A resemblance has been observed between Celtic Design and Coptic decorations motifs. A possible explanation of these resemblance (sic) might be found in the contact between the monks from Egypt and those from Ireland, for 7 Egyptian monks preached in Ireland and they were buried at Desert Ulidh. (Cawthra Mulock The Icons of Yuhanne Ibrahim the Scribe. London 1946 P12)
            Coptic influence penetrated into the Irish art and then went over into the developing German Art. The Irish Church provided its wandering missionaries not only with joyful tidings, but also with the artistic spirit of the native church everywhere they settled, these Irish envoys employed themselves in spreading their art and with it, indirect influence. (Wessel P232, 233)
            I found this one.
            http://weeklyword.eu/en/streams-in-the-desert/
            and this
            https://peterbannister.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/
            last one tonight.
            https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/churchman/046-02_121.pdf
            Remembering Origen and Tertullian spoke of Christianity having already reached these islands in their time, the 6th Century is far too late for the Christianising of the British Isles.
            The synod at Whitby sealed the fate of the Celtic church.

          • Grandmere

            You are correct yet again.

          • Стефан Евгений

            I think our problem is what we mean by Coptic. Coptic for us means monophysite heresy . Joan you are thinking of North African or the Egyptian desert Fathers?( who were Orthodox in their teaching)

            I’m not saying there was no contact between Celtic monks and the mediterranean.
            St Ninain
            http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/print73449.htm
            St Columba
            http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/104544.htm

            FOUR SAINTS OF ABERDEENSHIRE: STS. MACHAR, DROSTAN, NATHALAN AND FERGUS
            http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/99531.htm

          • Joan Simpson

            Just got your reply. My day didn’t turn out as planned. Life is like that sometimes!
            The Coptic Church with Pope Tawadros II of Alexandria Egypt is the church I am speaking of. The church started by St Mark and from where Athanasius came. The ones who excommunicated Arius
            I don’t know about Pope Tawadros, but Pope Shenouda III spent time in the desert. A Coptic Christian I used to work with told me devout Coptic Christians all try to spend time alone with God in the Desert.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Orthodox_Church_of_Alexandria
            Glad we got things sorted out. Parallel conversations can be troublesome

        • Grandmere

          Thanks for your input. I have been to Scone Palace. The peacocks were awesome!

    • It was said Joseph of Arimatea was instrumental in converting many in England to Christianity.

      • Joan Simpson

        Yes and he is supposed to have brought Jesus with him to Glastonbury. Think of that English ‘hymn’ – And did those feet, in ancient times…’

        • Never heard that line. What’s the name of the hymn?

        • Grandmere

          Jesus created Scotland but I have to seriously doubt he ever walked there. That’s poetic, not historic.

          • Joan Simpson

            Yes, but ‘Jerusalem’ is about England, not Scotland with a bit of what is described as British Israelism.

          • Grandmere

            I get it, Joan. Totally.

          • Tom_mcewen

            What you speak of is poetry of the UK, not necessarily true, but necessary for truth. I hope the UK survives, but then I hope that Christianity survives. It will because it is supernatural, I went to meeting of physicists and one of the more theologically minded said God is simple, my mind revolted, but if you believe occhams

          • Joan Simpson

            There is a lot of input from physicists in the ‘creation’ websites like Answers in Genesis, Creation worldview, ICR, Ask John McKay etc
            Isn’t it amazing that our heavenly Father told us of 4 dimensions in the Bible when at that time only 3 were known about? (Ephesians 3 vv17-19)
            So much accurate science in the Bible way before man ‘discovered’ it.
            Maury believed the Bible for this discovery.
            http://www.icr.org/article/20022/
            https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Scientific-Proof-of-Bible.php
            Our God is amazing.

          • CTyank

            Wasn’t just wondering today where you have been. Missed your wit.

          • Grandmere

            I have been to a place where the sand is warm and the Pina Coladas are cold.

      • Стефан Евгений

        No, it was St Apostle Aristobulus of the seventy. according to the Orthodox list of bishops.
        https://oca.org/saints/lives/2017/03/16/100816-apostle-aristobulus-of-the-seventy-the-bishop-of-britain

        • Regardless, there were missionaries who were sent to the Island of England to evangelize the pagans.

  • richinnameonly

    And whos presence is welcome by these politicians? Oh wait, I think I can guess some answers.

  • Just to demonstrate how the Church of England is destroying the Faith, eventually will lead to persecution of orthodox Christians, has a hand in all of this, and how orthodox Anglicans are waging a steady, determined battle to preserve the Faith, I present to you an analysis of Abp. Welby.

    http://virtueonline.org/archbishop-canterbury-losing-control-anglican-communion

    To wit, Welby is losing grounds as he partners with the devil while the Orthodox are determined to maintain the Faith.

    I would not be surprised to see or hear of Welby demanding British politicians use whatever laws to round up and imprisons the Orthodox faithful.

    • Joan Simpson

      Welby doesn’t have the clout to do that. He meets with Theresa May for prayer.
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615542/May-held-private-PRAYER-sessions-Justin-Welby.html

      • Doesn’t matter; Welby is “first among equals” in the Anglican communion, and he is helping the CoE to apostasize at alarming pace.

        • Grandmere

          He may think he’s first but GAFCON has him at the bottom of the deck. He doesn’t know how to play Uno, much less high stakes poker.

          • Thank God for that. Now if only the other bishops would rise up and sack Welby…

  • Tom_mcewen

    The UK is a post Christian kingdom and it still has the light of twilight, but it will be dark soon. The Catholic Church has been stepping back in England and Scotland on dogma in schools and I don’t see much hope. The re-enforcements from Rome has not shown up and this is another ninth legion disappearing from history. The west has lost confidence and is tired and wants to surrender. This feels like France in 1938-1940. The UK and the French will lie to themselves pass the point of defeat. I wish they would take a lesson from Poland.

    • I am afraid it may be worse than you think.

  • Pero Ercegovac

    Yes, all that is true. I did not realise that they rescinded that law for the Crown, I knew they did for the premiership, but not for the Crown. Thank you for that information.