World Renown Bible Answer Man Hank Hanegraff Realizes That Protestantism Is A False Religion, And Accepts Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Countless Evangelicals Are Now Leaving Protestantism And Accepting Roman Catholicism And Eastern Orthodox Christianity

By Walid Shoebat

Major Protestant theologian Hank Hanegraaff, the well-known talk show host, and evangelical apologist known as “The Bible Answer Man,” after decades of deciphering the Bible is now Eastern Orthodox.

Of course his departure from Protestantism caused some to state:

“The Bible Answer Man, has left the biblical Christian faith for Greek Orthodox tradition”.

In other words, to some, Christianity is exclusively Protestant, that unless someone is ‘Protestant’, they are no longer Christian. Talk about the criticism that when Catholics and Orthodox state that “only through an apostolic succession church” that one becomes ‘Christian’ to only encounter a Protestant insisting that Luther is the only way truth and the life.

So when 1 Timothy 4 stated: “Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils” this is departing from Protestantism.

So prior to Luther, were Christians “in” or “out” of the faith for fifteen centuries?

Known to millions as the “Bible Answer Man,” 77-year-old Hank Hanegraaff and his wife were received into the Orthodox Church this year on the great feast of Palm Sunday, at St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church in Charlotte, NC.

Mr. Hanegraaff can be seen kneeling with a lit candle under a priest’s epitrachelion in the picture to the right. His wife’s hands can be seen as well. The picture originates from the Facebook page of the parish, but has been removed after an influx of comments, including negative remarks from those who appreciated Hanegraaff’s work as a Protestant.

The Bible Answer Man addressed his conversion to the Orthodox faith on his program yesterday, in response to a caller who had seen remarks claiming that, in becoming Orthodox, Mr. Hanegraaff had “left the Christian faith” in which Hanegraaff responded:

I am now a member of an Orthodox Church, but nothing has changed in my faith. I have been attending an Orthodox church for a long time—for over two years, really, as a result of what happened when I went to China, many years ago. I saw Chinese Christians who were deeply in love with the Lord, and I learned that while they may not have had as much intellectual acumen or knowledge as I did, they had life. And so I learned that while truth matters, life matters more, and I remember flying back from China after spending time with just common people who had a deep, intense love for the Lord, and wondering, “Was I even a Christian?”

I was comparing my ability to communicate truth with their deep and abiding love for the Lord Jesus Christ… One man, by the way, said to me, truth matters but life matters more. In other words, it is not just knowing about Jesus Christ, it is experiencing the Resurrected Christ. As a result of that I started studying what was communicated by the progeny of Watchman Nee with respect to theosis and that drove me back to the early Christian Church.

And I suppose over that period of time I have fallen ever more in love with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It’s sort of like my wife—I have never been more in love with my wife than I am today, and I’ve never been more in love with my Lord Jesus Christ than I am today. I’ve been impacted by the whole idea of knowing Jesus Christ, experiencing Jesus Christ, and partaking of the graces of Jesus Christ through the Eucharist or the Lord’s Table. And that has become so central in my life, but as far as the statement that you mentioned, that I’ve left the Christian faith—nothing could be farther from the truth. In fact I believe what I have always believed, as codified in the Nicene Creed, and as championed by mere Christianity.

Indeed. I can relate. Knowing the truth is one major issue, but living it is completely another. Just having knowledge made me too wonder “was I even a Christian?” How many amongst the protestants even emphasize on “theosis” or the early Christian Church? Being Catholic is what made me understand marriage as a ‘sacrament’, my love for my wife and the necessity to understand sacraments.

But this is also countered with the necessity of ‘having a personal relationship with Jesus’.

Indeed, but it is the ancient church is what defines ‘personal relationship’.

Only the apostolic succession Christian can understand this by comprehending the corporate as described in Matthew 25:

 “you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me”.

It is the verse that haunted me for decades. Dealing with other Christians, as if they are Christ Himself,  is a form of ‘personal relationship’.

Forgiving sin is just as corporate:

“And to whom you [the priest] have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I [as a priest] have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ.” (2 Corinthians 2:10)

“I have done it in the person of Christ”. Nothing can be more personal than this.

So if aiding Christians is done in the person of Christ forgiving sinners is also done in the person of Christ by a priest.

Nothing can be more ‘personal’ in this relationship with Christ than this which the Protestant doesn’t have.

Once a true Christian understands this concept, then Scripture becomes a breeze to comprehend as far as our limited capacity can understand the matters of God and His Temple.

The Protestant, by redefining Christ’s mediation as something abstract, without it ever being conduced in any incarnational manner or personal, portraying it as only man directly asking God for forgiveness, in which there is no human authority confirming absolution, this becomes the sort of teaching that Islam has. Paul was clear “I done it [forgiving sin as a priest] in the person of Christ.” (2 Corinthians 2:10)

After reciting the entire Nicene Creed, Hank concluded, “In other words, I am as deeply committed to championing mere Christianity and the essentials of the historic Christian faith, as I have ever been.”

Hank Hanegraaff succeeded Dr. Walter Martin at the North Carolina-based Christian Research Institute (CRI) since 1989, when he also took over previous-president’s radio talk-show “The Bible Answer Man.” Martin used to debate Catholics like Fr. Mitchell Pacwa.

Pacwa himself jumped the Protestant ship:

So here we have the man who answered the toughest questions about matters of Protestant doctrine and Biblical interpretation, denominational particularities and cults; after three decades jumps the Protestant ship just as I did.

In March, Mr. Hanegraaff answered a caller’s question about what is missing from Protestant, the Orthodox and Catholic teaching of theosis, ably explaining the doctrine of man’s sanctification on both a Biblical and Patristic basis:

“We become Christ-bearers since His Body and Blood are distributed throughout our limbs, as Cyril of Jerusalem said… The whole idea being that we become by grace what God is by nature… We become, as Peter put it, partakers in the divine nature.”

I must say, that for decades, without the Eucharist, I was never able to rid myself from the usual sins I had when I left Islam. This is the crux of the whole sanctification process. It is really that simple. Without the continual confession to a priest, Communion, and this true personal relationship, I was never able to “work out my salvation with fear and trembling”.

What we all must accept is this: certain theologies cannot be dissected. It becomes as complex as attempting to figure out how Christ healed the blind man who said “one thing I know, that whereas I was blind, now I see.”

Many accuse Hanegraaff of Antisemitism. But Hank is far from being an Antisemite:

Well, in light of the incarnation, this Zionist suggestion that the modern land of Palestine along with its capital Jerusalem, is to be reserved exclusively for a single ethnicity or that the temple must be rebuilt and its sacrificial system reinstituted, borders on blasphemy. While the modern state of Israel does have a definitive, in my point of view, a definitive right to exist, to suggest that native Palestinians – many, by the way, who are brothers and sisters in Christ – should be forcibly removed from the land is not only unbiblical, but it’s unethical. By standing on the steps of the Capitol and protesting a two-state solution in the Middle East, Christian Zionists are creating an actual roadblock on the pathway to peace. Just as it’s a grievous sin to turn a blind eye to the evil of anti-Semitism, so it is a grievous sin to turn a blind eye to a theology that divides people on the basis of race rather than uniting them on the basis of righteousness and justice and equity.

In other words, Christians need to look at theology instead of ‘race’. Should we approve of temple sacrifices? It would be blasphemy indeed to state that animal sacrifices now equals Christ’s sacrifice. To state that a peaceful Arab should not live amongst peaceful Jews also goes contrary to scripture (Exodus 22:21Leviticus 19:34). In Ezekiel 47:22, scripture says:

 “You shall divide it by lot for an inheritance among yourselves and among the aliens who stay in your midst, who bring forth sons in your midst And they shall be to you as the native-born among the sons of Israel; they shall be allotted an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.”

While I suggest that Hank goes to Israel as he did China, there he will see that most Arab Christians are in reality syncretists and that many support terrorism. Scripture clearly insists that the sojourner intents no ill-harm to the nation. However, the problem are extremists on all sides of the fence.

While I do not agree on Hanegraaff’s eschatology and his view that prophecy ceased, I pray he grows in the faith to understand the issues of what is to come.

Protestant reformation apologist James White laments such departure from Protestantism and admits that the apostolic succession churches have an edge. He explains:

Pray that White also gets it.

CHRISTIANS ARE BEING TORTURED AND MURDERED AS WE SPEAK. PLEASE CLICK HERE TO GIVE A DONATION THAT WILL HELP OUR RESCUE TEAM

 

print
  • Doc

    My journey is similar to Mr. Hanegraaff’s. I was raised to hate and scorn the Catholic church, yet I cannot deny that the Eucharist apparently has divine power. I seek the truth: not tradition nor conventional wisdom.

    By the way: demon-possessed people for the most part fear Catholics but not Protestants. Why is that? Could it be that even the devils perceive who has the genuine presence of God and who doesn’t?

    Because of the many problems and scandals with Roman Catholicism, I can see myself becoming Eastern Orthodox instead. I do want to emphasize that I believe Cahtolics ARE Christians.

    I still believe, though, that a person can ask Christ directly for forgiveness of sins. I also had an unmistakable “born again” experience where I knew I had become a “new Creation.”

    Still, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Protestantism led to all kinds of “isms” from Islam to Mormonism–all diabolical in their heresy.

    And by the way, why do people call themselves “Protestants?” I resent the term being applied to me because I do not feel the need to “protest” anything.

    I instead prefer to be called “Catholic-friendly Evangelical.” That should get the “Protestants” protestng.

    • Ceirwyn

      Yeah, I know exactly what you mean with the Protestant label being thrown around so much. Most “protestants” aren’t actually, especially in the US. The evangelicals have several non-catholic, non-Protestant groups that spend most of their time bemused that people spend so much time trying to label Christians.

    • filomena seiffert

      The problem I have with Protestants is their wicked ways of debasing the Catholic Church to gain adepts to their sect from the simple people. This is how they were able to bring a great number of Catholics which had never doubted their faith into the sects. I hate the way they tell the people they need to read the bible to be saved. Many people can reason, because if they could it would be seeing as a lie. For most of the 2.000 years most of humanity could not read and write, only the priests and noble families could learn. If it were to be the way Protestants preach most of whole of humanity would be in hail. including many protestants who never went school. I do believe, God will judge everyone by what they did to others, be Muslim, Protestants and other religions That means if you because God is God of justice and love, we all are his children, the important lesson from Jesus what you do to the least of my children,you do it me. If we do good, we are doing good to God, if we do bad, we are doing bad to God. I believe in respecting the who Creation, people, animals, every life. Jesus was patient even to demons, even let the take over the pigs.

    • Ryan Donovan

      ayyyeee “demon-possessed people for the most part fear Catholics but not Prots”?? Awesome generalising Doc. The number of witches we used to get turning up to our deliverance sessions, that would start writhing in their seats and then quickly leave the room because they couldn’t handle us speaking the name of Jesus, was plenty…oh wait…we did have freemasons in the room there for deliverance, so must have been them keeping the other demons at bay, rather than Jesus in us Prots!

      • “so must have been them keeping the other demons at bay, rather than Jesus in us Prots!”

        Fair enough. It would be difficult to confirm which cast demons and which didn’t. But Doc stated something else “It’s also interesting to note that Satan worshippers seek to acquire and desecrate a genuine Eucharist wafer that has been blessed by a priest. Why does the enemy of God have no interest in a Protestant “Lord’s Supper” cracker?”

        You chose to try to refute one but forgot the other. Why?

        I can even add as to healing. Confirmed doctors reports that stem from Catholics is astounding. Even healing the BLIND.

        Show us any blind healed in your services?

        I can show you the blind healed. Care to see?

        In fact, when I first entered a charismatic church I had requested they heal my father’s blind eye. They said that they couldn’t do this. Only back pains and leg pains and what we cannot see.

        And how abut the preservation of saints bodies?

        Do you have any port’s saints bodies preserved?

        I am all ears and eyes.

        • Woody

          Yes, i have on my screen many, many bodies of Saints of those that haven never corrupted with death; Padre Pio my favorite had the stigmata for over 50 years;
          Also, since last June I have had a tear in my rotator cuff (very painful) my surgeon lagged on doing any surgery, sent me to physical therapy for 6 weeks–hurt just as bad after that, SO I went to my Charismatic group–they prayed over me and now it is healed; My surgeion said “Why don’t you want surgery now?”
          I said “Jesus is a better surgeon than you.” God Bless

        • Ryan Donovan

          yip, one of the elders had prayed for a down syndrome baby, and in front of everyone, its face was changed to ‘normal’ (and please don’t give me grief about normal vs not). From a blind person perspective, we have seen plenty of people healed at the same time as deliverance, some with long-standing eye probs…again some associated with freemasonry due to some of the FM curses, and some eyesight restored – minus the deliverance (as it wasn’t caused by demonic issues). Healing and deliverance are quite common in many churches hear.

          From Satan worshipers seeking to acquire and desecrate Eucharist wafers…I didn’t answer as you wouldn’t like my answer Walid. Satan always seeks to affirm that which is counterfeit in order to deceive. Similar to ultra-pentecostal services with some of the hyper-mania that takes place, UFOs/Lady of Fatima etc.

          Sorry.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Sadly, Jesus recounts to us that many with strong powers of the Holy Spirit –
            cast out demons and those who prophesied, will be sent in to the fire prepared for the devil and his angels – all becausee they did not perform the Corporal works of mercy – feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, drink to tthe thirsty, etc.

          • Raph Sebastian

            Telling them that the LORD said to do Corporal works of mercy is like telling them the LORD meant it when He said eat my flesh and drink my blood..

            Because one verse theology is what they subsist on, not the whole Word but just parts of it and then, VIOLA! they have their religion and belief system.

            Clearly this is your reference in it’s entirety but people choose one verse theology and then twist the verse around on top of that, I can’t even say sophistry fast enough! And thus we see below clearly your argument is correct, but of course they will not see. No miracle can heal this sort of blindness.

            Matthew 25:31-40
            The Judgement of the Nations

            31 ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” 37 Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” 40 And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,[a] you did it to me.”

            And now for the ones that refuse to perform Corporal works of mercy (a.k.a.: Here comes the kicker)

            41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” 44 Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” 45 Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’

            https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A25-50&version=NRSVACE

          • Julie LaBrecque

            ‘ No miracle can heal this sort of blindness ‘. That should be the ‘shoebat motto’. Love it. I believe is was Mark Twain that said that it is easier to convince someone to believe a lie than it is to convince someone that they have believed a lie.

          • “From a blind person perspective, we have seen plenty of people healed at the same time as deliverance, some with long-standing eye probs…again some associated with freemasonry due to some of the FM curses, and some eyesight restored – minus the deliverance (as it wasn’t caused by demonic issues). Healing and deliverance are quite common in many churches hear.”

            Really? Show me a single piece of evidence that the blind was healed?

            Here watch what I mean by healing the blind:

            The woman had no pupils.

            Now go and find me a doctor to refute this.

            “I didn’t answer as you wouldn’t like my answer Walid.”

            But your answer was sent to Doc not to me.

            “Satan always seeks to affirm that which is counterfeit in order to deceive.”

            Compare the two sides and you will see which one is doing the counterfeit. I can show you even secular research who examined Benny Hinn and proved he was a fraud while they admitted that the Catholics could not be refuted.

            Good luck next time.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            More good news on the conversion front – the latest edition of the National Catholic Register came yesterday and the front page had a long article about an Arizona Assembly of God pastor, Joshua Mangels, converting as well as a good part of his congregation – joining St. Melany’s Byzantine Catholic Church. The photo provided in the article shows about 40 people joining. Byzantine eparchy of Phoenix for more info.

          • Kamau41

            That is so AWESOME!!!!!! Certainly great news to hear. Sounds like a very similar story to what happened to the late Deacon Alex Jones when he converted along with his congregation about 20yrs ago.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Yes – very similar. I was so saddened to hear when dear Alex passed on – his book is one of my favorite conversion stories – he truly lost everything to come in.

          • Vinny Zee

            When I was pretty sure I was returning home, his was the only conversion story I was familiar with, but I did not spend too much time learning more about it. After I came home, I discovered Robert Sungenis, William Marshner, Scott Hahn, Tim Staples and now amazingly Hank Hanegraaff and Joshua Mangels came home. These are amazing days and I have so many amazing stories of what God is doing in Arizona, particularly Tucson. Glory be to God. Christ is Risen!

          • Grandmere

            My sister lives in Tucson. She quit going to church. Please give me some info. I have been praying for years that she would return.

          • Vinny Zee

            Grandmere,

            First off what you have to know is that Tucson is one of the least churched cities in all the U.S. As of around 2014, I think they were pretty close to 10th least churched. That is pretty impressive company when you consider places like San Fran, Seattle, L.A. or New York City. I don’t know who runs these types of metrics, but I had no reason to doubt it. Tucson in particular has a very interesting mix. You’re within earshot of Mexico via Nogales, so there is a heavy hispanic influence in culture, art and cuisine. Then you have a heavy retirement influence, so this draws in transients from all over, but they mainly live on the outskirts in every direction around the city. The city is primarily driven by the University of Arizona, The Davis-Monthan Airforce Base, Contractors such as Raytheon. There is a terrible drug epidemic (again thanks to the close proximity of neighbors to the south). It is an interesting seat along I-10. Interesting side note, it is the only major city on I-10 from L.A. to Florida that does not have a by-pass, outer belt, inner belt, etc. There are eclectic hold overs, new age influences and middle of the road transplants. This all infuses to mix with the local population that is staunch in their love for the dusty old town. The city draws major figures like Oprah and Tiger Woods, but not in the manner you’d think. People like them, John Travolta and others, have sleepy hideaways nestled deep in the Catalina and near Mt. Lemmon. There is a hefty difference between the haves and have-nots, with multi-million dollar foothill castles overlooking barren, drug riddled, worn down industry. Tucson boasts one of the highest homeless populations, because where else can you live outdoors nearly 300+ days a year and not feel a drop of rain?

            In the mix of all this is a growing crop of evangelical, new-age, post-modern, free-form thought with a hippy edge trying to wake up the inner city. Tucson does not, in many regards, boast a staunch traditionalism say with what you’d find in the bible belt. There are really aren’t any nitch locals say that are the hold over of the rust belt. Atheism, agnosticism and indifference will allow one to fit in well and fly below the radar in Tucson. However, through all of this, you have an avid, thriving Catholic community, no doubt driven by the strong Hispanic heritage. Quietly resting along side the Roman Rite are Byzantine rite and eastern rite churches. To my knowledge, there are two Eastern Orthodox Churches, a Greek Orthodox and an Antiochan Orthodox Church. The Greek church, St. Demetrios boasts the bleeding gospel (http://www.spiritdaily.net/demetrius.htm). I think the powerhouse looking over the city is St. Anthony’s Monastery in Florence, AZ (approximately 75 miles North) and certainly worth the visit if you’re ever visiting your sister in Tucson. So in the midst of the atheism, neglect, brokenness and strife there is certainly light and hope and peace and a continuous witness.

            I do not fault the new-age, post-modern, evangelicals. Their hearts are in the right place. They want what we all want, to serve God and know Christ. Many of them, because they are so used to questioning and not being able to hold to any one particular doctrine will often give a very willing ear to listen to history, philosophy and truth. Some are obstinate. There is only so much you can do with them. So all this to say, what about your sister?

            Without knowing much more, I would say you are doing all you can do. Prayer is the most effective weapon. Once I discovered the Greek Monastery I realized their light had always been shining. If you’ve never, watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=697OSC6BgTs). I recently found another version of this that kept in some dialogue that was cut out of the final version. But I’ve watched this version so much, it was easy for me to pick out what was new material. We must always be in prayer. Tucson is an easy place to forget what is really important in the world around you. It never rains, it never snows, there are no natural disasters, you can live 7/365 there is relative comfort. I am not saying this encompasses the life of everyone, but by and large. I could write all night about the city. I normally never write about my current stops, because the journey is not complete. But I never mind reflecting about stops I’ve had along the way.

            Christ is Risen Grandmere.

          • Kamau41

            Indeed Vinny. Listening and reading about conversion stories is truly exciting and wonderful. We are living in such amazing times as God is truly at work doing such amazing things. Hope you have a very Blessed Easter as we celebrate the risen Saviour.

            Viva Cristo Rey!

          • I will check out Joshua Mangels. Sounds interesting.

          • Kamau41

            He does sounds interesting. Here is a link about him.
            https://joshuamangels.com/category/family/

          • Vinny Zee

            So many amazing stories out of Arizona, particularly Tucson, where I think this story ultimately comes out of. I could go on and on about what God is doing there. Thanks for sharing.

          • Indeed. Vinny. This is why people like you (the articulate one) and the Brick (the hammer), Stephan (the crazy Russian) and Trevor (the blind who can see), 41 (the rower), Raph (the sniper) and others are so essential in helping others see the light. You guys do much better than me since I at times fly off the handle like a typical Palestinian.

          • Kkdgrace

            Sir…..As much as I have been trying lately to avoid exposing my spirit to anything that might cause too much angst, I have to admit I drive much pleasure from reading many of your comments! My “lol” moments!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Good to hear – I have an uncle there – has been out of church since he married and left Indiana 40 ryears ago. His wife died unexpectedly last year, i prayed that maybe that loss will bring him home.

          • Vinny Zee

            Happy Easter Julie to you and your family. Christ is Risen! Or as I have learned from the Ukranians, Chrystos Voskres.

    • Pam Fletcher

      If Paul wanted to please men, he couldn’t be a servant of Christ!! Gal.1:10! There’s one Lord, one Faith! Eph.4:5
      You need to be a believer or get out of the way!

      • Hey hey. Are you gonna harass my falafel customers? Is that all you want to do here?

        The Doc has been a longtime customer here. He orders dozens of falafel sandwiches from here and then passes the falafel sandwiches to the poor. You only come over here to take away free samplers and then crumble them and feed them to the pigeons.

        “get out of the way!”

        Have some damn respect. Do you know how long it took the Doc to get his medical license and become wealthy to afford all the food purchases?

        It doesn’t come easy. You “get out of the way”.

        • Grandmere

          Can I cash her out? I have her check ready to go. And we know she aint leavin’ a tip either.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Could you shoo a cockroach her way? I seem to have one in mind.

      • Personally, I think it’s time your hide get tossed out.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        ONE FAITH – do you ‘get it’? Luther broke the One faith – now there’s over 40,000 of them.

        • Kamau41

          And the splits continue to occur every week creating more madness.

    • Woody

      A demon once told a saint, “We hate 3 things: the name of Jesus, the name of Mary, and that blasted garment of Mary’s-the scapular – it robs so many souls from us.”

  • It is as I have often said, “God is leaving the gate open for those who desire to find the truth will enter by it while those who prefer to have their ears tickled will leave by it, and one day, God will shut the gate and ain’t nobody getting through.”

    I am truly happy for Hanegraff and he is at peace with it.

  • FF

    I’m also in the line for communion (and Crisma) this Páscoa, in the Latin Church (RC), after almost 2 years attending mass (‘secretly’ until January), together with my family.
    To all the Shoebat family and to all in this forum, I wish a blessed Páscoa.

    • AnthonyM

      Way to go! And same to you, also.
      I wish peace as you begin your sacred journey to the fulness of truth.

    • Grandmere

      Congratulations. Have a blessed Easter.

    • Kamau41

      Congratulations FF. Welcome HOME!! Have a very blessed Holy Week/Easter Sunday.

    • Kevin Nicholson

      Portuguese-English translation for “Páscoa”

      Easter

      A most Holy Mass. Amen.

  • AnthonyM

    I had not heard of Mr. Hanegraaff’s conversion. Good news!
    Walid, your conversion story is pretty remarkable, it would be good to hear your story on ‘Coming Home’.

    • Kamau41

      I’m hoping that Walid will share his testimony on the network too.

      • AnthonyM

        He had posted an abbreviated version on this site, some time ago. I don’t recall the article title, though.

        • Kamau41

          I’ll try to search for it.

  • THOMAS KING

    Many years ago, I bought a book by the late Dr. Walter Martin “The Kingdom of the Cults”. I loved its thoroughness and its biblical arguments to refute many of the cults. Later on, I heard about Hank Hanegraff and listened to him destroy the heretical “Prosperity Gospel” and the Word of Faith Movement. To hear him convert to Orthodoxy is refreshing since I can personally relate to this as someone who was a hardcore Bible Believing Ptotestant. Like Hanegraff, the sufferings of Chinese Christians caused me to think more deeply about my Christian Faith. I also remember encountering a book given to me as a gift that caused me to think again: “Christ the Eternal Tao” by Hieromonk Damascene Christensen. This book also discussed about suffering Christians in China and related it to Orthodoxy. I never forgot the words of a former Fundamental Baptist who entered Orthodoxy: “Within the heart and soul of every hardcore Evangelical and Fundamentalist is someone who is truly Orthodox. They have just not realized it yet.”

    • For me, it was the Coptic martyrdom in 2014 that caused me to get curious about their doctrine and found a book written by their late pope that convinced me to become Catholic. Well, I’m hoping to become a confirmed Anglican Catholic by August.

      • Doc

        For me, it was the quote (paraphrasing), “they have a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.” That perfectly describes people who do not think the Eucharist has any supernatural power, or that miracles ceased after the first century, etc.

        For the people who believe “sola scriptura”, how do you then explain the Shroud of Turin? The Bible mentions the burial garments of Jesus, but only in passing. Yet there are so many things about the Shroud that cannot be explained that it is a testimony in and of itself. Although I am one to cringe when I see people bowing to a statue of Mary, I have to sit up and take notice when the body of a saint does not see corruption.

        We see through a glass darkly, but to deny the obvious infusion of power by the Holy Spirit is blasphemy in my opinion.

        • I bow in reverence to Mary. I am grateful for her.

          As for the Shroud of Turin, I remember helping Julie L., write her article and she put in a lot of effort to help educate the mass of the miracle associated with the Shroud.

          Remember, the one unpardonable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. To deny that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ is to deny that the Holy Spirit has the power to transform bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.

          • Cuzick

            If people understood the beauty and depth of Theosis, they would have an understanding of veneration of the Saints.

          • Kamau41

            So very true. It requires for a person to have the zeal to want to study and learn.

        • Darren Neufeldt

          For me, I had an unquenchable desire to find the True Church, and I kept coming to Catholicism after learning of the failings of so many Protestant ways. Then I had to challenge myself to prove Catholicism wrong in the Bible; I have this incredible desire to read God’s Word and have been reading it every day now for a few years. Instead of proving what those that taught me what I thought I knew, I proved to myself through God’s Word that Catholicism was what I was looking for. It’s official this Easter.

          • Kamau41

            Truly love it Darren.

        • Woody

          “You have eyes but you do not see; ears but you do not hear.” Thank you Jesus, no one worships either Mary or “statues” and we pray in front of them not “to them.” Behind every one is a person who existed as a holy person while on earth and can pray for us to this day. By your understanding you having pictures of your family in your house makes you believe the “pictures” are real; like statues which are 3 dimensionla version of pictures. Only a fool would think that kneeling to Mary is “talking to her statue.” It is Mary we are talking to.
          There are many, many bodies of saints which are not corrupt (an impossiblity to medical science and they can only say it is a miracle. Like Padre Pio who died in 1968–he also had the stigmata for over 50 years and could be in two places at once. (again not humanly possible by man, but God can do ALL things in those who love HIM!

  • Filip

    I’m glad these sects are being purged by The Lord. “His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing
    floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with
    unquenchable fire.””

  • Wilma Mills

    Walter Martin and John Ankerburg were holding forth the word of life to all who were listening.

  • Kamau41

    AWESOME!!!!! This is such great news to hear and read about Hank’s conversion story. I used to listen him during the 90s. We pray that many more will finally see the light of truth and come home.

    • Стефан Евгений

      Kamau41, Notice that he was going to church a good 2 years to learn.
      The problem is many priests here in America, bring them in too early and what a disaster that can be. It takes a good 5 years for you to get in the rythem of feasts and fasts. Being “churched'( tserkovnost) is what we say.

      • Raph Sebastian

        The time spent learning also purges the Protestantism in them. So many that are quickly entered into communion retain their heretical and blasphemous beliefs and then infect others with them. This is disastrous for the Church in the long run.

  • Cuzick

    Now show us how the blood moons and the shemitah fit in. Oh, please explain the pre-trib rapture again too.

    • Grandmere

      Please, Cuzy. Don’t encourage this loo,ummm guy.

      • Cuzick

        Sorry, got a little emotional.

  • Craig A. Mouldey

    I heard about this a couple of hours ago. It was the second time today I spontaneously smiled.
    One serious heresy in Protestantism is called nominalism. In other words they say this or that isn’t literal but a figure of speech or just a symbol. The body and blood of the Lord found in the broken bread and wine falls into this. Another example: since just about forever I would read verses such as ‘Christ in you’ or ‘God in Christ’ and never knew what it meant. Is it just agreeing with someone? It literally means ‘IN’ as inside you. By this nominalism the Protestant rips away the reality of Christ, all he said, His church etc. It just hides the truth so we are robbed of the richness of a real relationship with God.
    This is very wonderful news.

  • Cuzick

    ” I saw Chinese Christians who were deeply in love with the Lord, and I learned that while they may not have had as much intellectual acumen or knowledge as I did, they had life. And so I learned that while truth matters, life matters more, and I remember flying back from China after spending time with just common people who had a deep, intense love for the Lord, and wondering, “Was I even a Christian?”

    I was comparing my ability to communicate truth with their deep and abiding love for the Lord Jesus Christ… One man, by the way, said to me, truth matters but life matters more. In other words, it is not just knowing about Jesus Christ, it is experiencing the Resurrected Christ. ”

    Amen, as Christians this should be our testimony. Through Grace we become what Jesus is by nature, should be our lifelong pursuit.

    John 10:10New King James Version (NKJV)

    10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

    John 16:7-15
    Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

    12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

    • “Was I even a Christian?” speaks volume. It revealed his heart. Every Christians should be asking that question of themselves. I still struggle, wondering if I am a Christian, and here is one of the top apologists for the Faith embracing fully the Orthodox Faith. It is inspiring, encouraging, and praiseworthy.

      • Cuzick

        Yes. Thank God for his great love for us by giving us his Holy Spirit to keep us on the narrow path. That’s why I love the Jesus prayer.

      • Grandmere

        Self examination is painful, but necessary. Lord, have mercy upon us.

        • Amen.

        • Kamau41

          Amen to that Grandmere.

  • Here is wisdom…

    This article is not about the Mark of the Beast. If you want to argue about the Mark of the Beast, go to this article, and start refuting.

    http://shoebat.com/2014/09/09/every-christian-needs-know-mark-beast-mark-god/

    Till then, you are wasting our times with things we have already heard ad infinitum.

    • Cuzick

      Amen. And Amen !!!

      • I’m going to sit back and wait for her head to explode. She already got the interpretation and translation wrong.

        • Cuzick

          Where’s Grand at ? Looks like it might get a little messy.

          • Probably back in the kitchen heating up the iron skillet. She got a wicked backhand swing with the iron skillet. I got beaned once with it. Not fun.

          • Cuzick

            Yeah, that’s why I walk around with my hat in my hand when she’s in the room.

          • Grandmere

            I’m greasing up my cast iron skillet just in case. I must admit though. They are rather entertaining while in the early stages. It’s when the delirium hits that you have to have some Haldol ready.

          • Kamau41

            Oh, Grandmere. I knew you were getting that cast iron skillet greased up and ready to go. We may need Susan to prepare the Haldol.

        • Kamau41

          Her head has already exploded. I’m just sitting back laughing….

          • Grandmere

            Dante Rivers just slew me! I cannot stop laughing! Check it out below!

          • Kamau41

            Saw it. Now that had me ROFL big time.

  • DanteRivers

    Exciting news about Hank Hanegraaff.

    Tomorrow I have an appointment to visit the priest of my local eastern rite Byzantine catholic church to learn about confession and confess my sins. If all goes well I will receive my chrismation within the next couple of weeks.

    • DanteRivers

      This verse came to mind as I was preparing for Liturgy Monday.
      Hebrew 12:2 KJV
      Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

      What joy was set before Him?

      Could it be the Catholic/Orthodox church pictured in Malachi 1:11 worshiping
      the Trinity in the mass/liturgy and partaking of the Eucharist?

      Is it possible that when we participate in the Liturgy during Easter week we are participating in the joy that gave Him strength to endure the cross almost two thousand years ago?

      • Kamau41

        Wonderful news, Dante.

    • Grandmere

      Happy news, Dante.

      • DanteRivers

        Hitler’s son converts to orthodoxy

        I have a cat. There is a Vineyard church in my neighborhood and there is a major University in my City that hates Michigan.

        • Grandmere

          ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Kamau41

          You had me ROFL.

        • I have seen so many variant of that clip it is funny. But, if you see the original translation, it tells quite a different story. The actor who portrayed him was outstanding. I have watched that particular film. Very sobering and to see how blind they followed him to the bitter end…it recalls Jesus’ words, “If the blind leads the blind, would they not fall into a ditch?”

          My wife got upset at the scene where Himmler’s wife forced-swallowed her children in swallowing cyanide as the Russian soldiers were closing in on the bunker, or Wolf’s Lair.

      • DanteRivers

        Hello Grandmere as of this Sunday I am now officially Byzantine Catholic. Feeling the peace which passes all understanding.

  • Ceirwyn

    I’m glad he found a church family where he feels he belongs, and so should every christian. All this interdenominational fighting is attempting to be the Holy Spirit instead of trusting God to shepherd His sheep to where they belong. Only the Holy Spirit can tell him where he should be.

  • Kamau41

    What does all of this nonsense you are spewing here have to do with the article?

    • Grandmere

      It would take a Jesuit secret decoder ring to figure it out and she doesn’t have one yet. She needs to drink more Ovaltine.

      • Tom_mcewen

        I got lost after she said 2 + 2 = 5, but then I never had a head for Divine mathematics. I noticed that the Chinese government selected a bishop for the official church and after his installation he swore loyally to the see of Peter. They were not happy campers.

      • Стефан Евгений

        The Uk Ovaltine, not the American.

      • Kamau41

        LOL;) Aint that the truth!

  • Grandmere

    Archaeologist have found remains of some very early churches. The walls were covered with icons. The use of vestments naturally came from their Jewish roots. The Didache is a kind of handbook written in the Church’s infancy. It describes a lot about the early belief and worship habits.

    • We have already in detail explained Dura Europos filled, wall-to-ceiling, with images of Old Testament stories and saints. Thats not what this wolf is interested in for he/she would have commented on countless articles we explained all these issues.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Wow – wow- wow!!!!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    40,000 protestant denominations and counting prima facie proves Sola scriptura as patently false. The certified states that tHE CHURCH is the pillar and bulwark of truth, 1 Tim 3:15. Scripure also states to ‘ keep the traditions’.

    • Tom_mcewen

      I am glad they included White’s video, there is a man who could sit Jesus down and tell him where he went wrong. I notice his videos don’t let you comment. Thanks to Walid.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        For sure – he would have no problem setting Jesus straight.

      • I had to endure watching a full hour of his rant to get this ‘confession’ that the kingdom of the grasshoppers live in poverty, starvation, hunger and are completely bankrupt. And it came from the horse’s own mouth.

        • Tom_mcewen

          Well, it is lent and Holy week so you will have given extra graces. He is a dogmatic believer who has been forced to create a different Universe with a different history to hold on to his ?Theology?. It is telling he allows no comments and you know him, St Ignatius would have rolled his eyes and ran to meet the lion.

    • Ceirwyn

      The Church is people who have entered the blood covenant with Christ, not a denomination. Denominations aren’t of God, including the Catholic denominations. Memberships, rituals, and creeds don’t make someone Christian.

      I don’t think it’s a coincidence non-Jews responded better to Christ than Jews, and Jews better than the religious Jews. Less tradition to garble their perception.

      • Grandmere

        I’m shocked. Baptism brings one into membership in the Church. Baptism is a rite. There is a form to it (Trinitarian). It is agreed by all that a person has to believe everything in the Nicene Creed in order to be saved. The Apostle’s Creed is worded in a similar fashion. The Athenasian Creed clearly states proper doctrine concerning the Trinity. There are three creeds. You can’t take two out of three. And I’ll bet, deep down, you accept all three. So, what is all the fuss about?

        • Ceirwyn

          Baptism happens after you enter the covenant, as it’s an outward witness to your willful acceptance into the covenant. That’s why it comes last.

          Even if you waited for a bit after you prayed for salvation, say got baptized in week or so, you’d still be in The Church.

          • Grandmere

            Baptism brings you into the covenant. That is why we bring our infants to be baptized. This is a rite, with a form. Questions are asked, promises are made. Prayers are said. I don’t know why I even bothered to answer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7kE8qUz5A

          • Ceirwyn

            Then explain how the thief on the cross got into heaven? He certainly didn’t get sprinkled or dunked before he died.

          • Grandmere

            Are you nuts! The thief was still alive when Jesus was pierced and there came forth blood and WATER. Do you think some of that water didn’t land on him???????????????? He got sprayed!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            That’s it- make your entire theology off of one incident. Have you ever scratched your head a bit? Ever considered that the thief was a circumcized Jew that was not a Roman citizen? Citizens of Rome would receive beheading as form of death penalty, not crucifixion – this is why St Paul (citizen of Rome) was beheaded whereas St Peter ( not a citizen of Rome) was crucified. I suggest you venture into reading the Book of Hebrews – it states that the testament of the testator is NOT IN FORCE UNTIL THE DEATH OF THE TESTATOR TAKES PLACE –

          • Ceirwyn

            That is an excellent point, Julie. I hadn’t thought about it like that.

            Though, if baptism is part of entering covenant, it still doesn’t change the fact that entering the covenant is what gets you into The Church.

          • Woody

            There are other forms of Baptism other than water; i.e., Baptism of desire, Batism of blood.

          • She’s back. In full force wielding the sword of truth.

          • Kamau41

            The Crusader, the BRICK, hasn’t lost a beat. She’s better than ever….

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Wrong.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        You are sorely wrong –

      • Woody

        The Catholic Church has always been here from Jesus and has been ONE Holy Catholic Church (even attested to in the Creed); to be a denominaion there has to be more than one (like the Prots – over 40,000 all teaching contradictory things, and in logic only one is right since opposites cannot be true at the same time.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Sola scriptura is not biblical, period. That in itself is the damning knell.

    • Kamau41

      SNAP!!

  • Kamau41

    “Sola Scriptura, is the only way to ensure the integrity of the faith.” Really?? Can you show us where in the Bible it says that?

    • Grandmere

      SNAP!

    • David W

      Yeah…Sola scriptura worked out well, thousands of Protestant sects and splinter groups. Zwingli and Luther both claimed to base their dogmas on SOLA SCRIPTURA and came up with two different doctrines on the Eucharist. Pretribs, mid-tribs, post-tribs, snake handlers, Osteen, TD Jakes, the late Harold Camping, James White, Hagee, Lindsay, LaHaye, Pentecostals, Trinity Broadcasting, amillenials, preterists and post-mills all claim that their dogmas are based entirely on the Bible alone.

      • Cuzick

        TBN had one or two good segments when Mr. Shoebat was on.

        • Grandmere

          What he could tell you about them would make you sick.

      • Kamau41

        It’s a complete mess, which explains why there is so much confusion. Very catastrophic indeed!!

  • ezekiel22

    Many many years ago I was privileged to meet and listen to Dr. Walter Martin and was enthralled by his identic memory. If I remember correctly he was Episcopalian before he changed to Baptist and believe me his baptist really shown through when debating leaders of cults especially the christian ones like Mormons. My point is that he did a great deal for many that were thirsty to learn as much of Christ as possible and he did so with passion. Like a lot of baptists he questioned tongues and speaking in them but not denying the fact. Before he died he did receive that gift. My point is simple. People and their faith grows in different ways and speeds. Hank Hannegraft grew a different way which is fine.
    I used to be anxious to listen to teachers of the Bible and I still enjoy learning today. However, I learned another aspect of being a Christian that is as vital to our life as water. We need to worship collectively as well as singularly to grow in the life within us. Believe it or not a christian can crave worship. Funny how we grow isn’t it?
    There is no disrespect when I say that it does not matter if you are Catholic, Orthodox, Episcopalian, or any other denomination that adheres to the Nicene Creed faithfully. We are related in family. I can see the pageantry of churches other than mine and I think a lot of it is neat and makes me think. I see what my church does and get encouraged as well for what they do. I see hands, feet, head, torso all working for the soon Coming.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Well, for the Baptists he joined the blessed coptic Orthodox who had their throat cut by ISIS and was declared by the Baptists as not Christian, not born again, gospel believing Christians anyway. He has joined a team hated by the world, what can be better then that. I would love to read the comments against that picture, just to see the minds of the born agains. 1740 Theology.

  • David W

    In our Greek Orthodox church there is a lot of participation and Alot of singing. We do not have pews, so those of us who can stand, stand. I cannot speak for all Orthodox parishes. I have attended parishes with very little participation from the worshippers, except for the occasional sign of the cross. I was baptized on Lazarus Saturday. FYI, a petition to the Theotokos was discovered from the 3rd century, before Constantine.

  • EXWOLF, or should I say “wolf” period.

    Throughout your relationship with us if we say “A” you say “Z” and if we say “B” you say “C”.

    Now you ask “Interesting although I would be more interested to know whether the early church dressed in all the priestly refinery, venerated Mary, prayed to the saints and made a big thing about icons.”

    The Holy Ghost appeared as a dove but is He a dove? No. Even God gave the Holy Spirit an earthly form because it was under such that they revealed themselves to men.

    So when we see an icon with a dove, we say “Ah, the Holy Spirit”.

    God did not mind it. But you do. You mind it very much because you have always been like the Muslim iconoclast.

    God the Father appeared as an old man in a vision to the prophet Daniel.

    Is God an old man? No. But God chose an icon of an old man and placed it in Daniel’s head.

    Me presenting this will convince a wolf like you? No.

    Perhaps you will respond with “who the hell are you to know what I am convinced of”.

    To be frank, I don’t really care what you think.

    All I care about is that, as St. Bellarmine said that the Holy Ghost is shown as a dove because it was in that form that he appeared at the baptism of our Lord. The pictures and statues we make are not intended to show us things in themselves but rather the quality of things, or the effects they produce. For instance, the Holy Spirit is represented as a dove to signify the gifts of innocence, purity and holiness, which he endows in our souls. Similarly, angels are given wings because we know that their heavenly strength and beauty never decline, and they are always on tiptoe to do God’s bidding. Sometimes we even see them in white robes and sacred stoles, signifying their sinlessness and service of the divine majesty.

    All this was presented to you a hundred times over.

    Did you articulate anything under those sections where we articulated our arguments?

    No.

    You’re not interested to know whether the “early church dressed in all the priestly refiery, venerated Mary, prayed to the saints” and “made big thing about icons”.

    We’ve already done that. A hundred times over.

    That’s not your goal.

    You’ve always been contrarian, a wolf. If we explain “A” in detailed articles, you do not articulate anything under that article “A”. And if we address “Z” you do not articulate your objections under “Z”. All you do is that when we speak of “A” you speak of “Z” and if we speak of “Z” you speak of “A”.

    You’re the type of customer who comes to my stand and says they love Falafel when in reality all you wanted were a few falafels as a sampler to crumble it and to feed it to the pigeons in the square.

    Its your nature.

    If we write on Luther in article “A” with impeccable detail showing evidence, you do not attempt to refute them, but only under article “Z” do you write the following:

    “The fact of history is that rumblings of discontent had already been rising amongst the Catholic Church before Luther. The translation of documents and scripture became more prevalent, which undermined the Catholic Traditions. It also seems clear Luther was influenced by Augustine’s two main assertions: the bible is the primary source not Church Officials and traditions and that God alone by His grace can grant salvation. Along with others, Luther objected to the practice of selling indulgences, particularly the Treasury of Merit. However, Luther took it all the way with his 95 thesis. It was this that ultimately emboldened all others to break the stranglehold of the Catholic Church. Had the Catholic Church not been so corrupt and the peoples sold a belief that is founded on tradition rather than scripture then Luther would have had no cause to rebel. Surely? So it could be argued that all of the ills ascribed to Luther were in fact the fault of the Catholic Church? Ultimately, making Luther responsible is scapegoating in the extreme and there is no real sound historical basis for it.”

    If this is so utterly true, why did you NOT respond to all the essays we did on Luther showing 100% that all what you wrote here is pure bullshit?

    Everything you say is diarrhea:

    “If more people of influence uttered the same sentiments then we wouldn’t have had Christian ‘civil wars’ that ultimately weakened Christendom to the extent that Islam could fill the vacuum. Neither would we have had Catholic and Prots burning each other and their own adherents for so called ‘heretical’ beliefs. No wonder some students of church history turn to atheism.”

    In several essays we revealed how Luther and Protestants where in bed with Islam. Where are your refutations or comments under these essays?

    Nowhere to be found.

    You talk of ‘civil wars’ regardless that in the Bible there were many ‘civil wars’ within ancient Israel at times between each other and between heretics.

    So now atheism has an “excuse”?

    “So the sceptic would ask: if God wanted to portray his message loud and clear for the salvation of mankind a) Why didn’t he do it in the Garden of Eden and b) Why did he make is so confusing that his own children can’t agree and fight amongst themselves?”

    The skeptic is you. There are literally millions of these types of questions that come up from so-called wolves in ‘skeptic’ clothing.

    Lets face it. You are a defender of your prophet Luther.

    So bugger off with this “ex” wolf thing. I’ve seen your type before.

  • Reread my comment again.

  • So how was the water transformed into wine? How was that woman, bleeding for years, suddenly healed without Christ even touching her?

  • I wish it was an Ordinariate parish…

    • Julie LaBrecque

      See -. That’s what I thought too –

  • No, you opened your big mouth and posted a comment that a) had nothing to do with the above article, and b) you used English translation of the Scriptures instead of looking at the original Greek. Your argument would instantly fall apart since you have been indoctrinated by Jehovah’s Witness damnable teachings.

    • Grasshoppers always come in the day after. What we need is a flame thrower. 41’s paddle crushing locusts here and there will simply not do.

      BRING IN THE FLAME THROWER.

        • Grandmere

          Let’s put Raph in charge of the flame thrower. You and 41 row and I’ll keep the coffee coming.

          • Sure, Grandmere. Two lumps of sugar with half/half please with my coffee.

          • Grandmere

            Sugar? Half and half? The captain would make me walk the plank. We have no such luxury. It’s strong, black coffee. Take it or leave it. I do, however, have an old peppermint in the bottom of my pouch. I was saving it for when either you or 41 needed that last measure of devotion.

          • I will drink it black. I just like it sweetened.

          • Grandmere

            We can pray for a miracle.

          • I just have to get used to to the bitter taste.

          • Black Coffee? No cream or sugar?

            You want to see what involves making a shot of coffee the way I was brought up? Remember, the Ethiopians discovered it. We the Arabs roasted it and pounded it to grounds and then the Pope blessed it. It comes with music while the guy pounds the coffee after roasting it:

            I still play the reed instrument like he does.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I happen to have some Ethiopian coffee just delivered – http://www.mysticmonkcoffee.com – in Powell, Wyoming 1-877-751-6377.

          • Is it different from the coffee we buy at the store?

          • Julie LaBrecque

            I would say yes – I am a Dunkin Doughnuts coffee fan as far as store-bought coffees go. I like the mystic Monk coffees – they have a richer flavor

          • Grandmere

            LOL Remember that horrible swill we had to drink at the hotel in Birmingham??? Living in LA, I learned to drink some strong coffee. But that stuff was pretty nasty.

          • “mystic Monk coffees ”

            No wonder you turned out like flaming fire, a sword and a brick in the hands of the Almighty.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Yes it is.

          • Sugar?

            Now what. We have to teach them how real coffee is made?

            You can’t put sugar in muddy Turkish coffee. Mixing it makes a messy mud.

            Have you had real bedouin Coffee or are you used to Foldger’s Crystal?

          • Nope, never had Bedouin coffee, in point of fact. Foldger’s coffee is weak sauce.

          • Ya. Where is Raph when we need him.

            What? I told you a million times not to send Raph to do the shopping.

            Now what do we do?

          • Grandmere

            We call for Cuzy. He’s the one who keeps the beer cold. We might as well hold tight until Raph gets back.

          • Cuzick

            Sorry Grand for not getting to the stand sooner, long day at work. Thanks for picking up my slack.

          • Kamau41

            Excellent idea…

      • Стефан Евгений

        Keep your flame thrower, this old Hunky will use this….. It came in handy this morning 😉

      • Kamau41

        I simply choose not to waste much time with grasshoppers these days. From time to time,
        I will come in help out. However, as you have seen for decades, only a few will change. Otherwise, many unfortauntely, will continue the same arguments and remaining as grasshoppers until the very end. Besides, we have the BRICK, who has returned and Grandmere working together as the flame throwers. I just continue to row at steady speed!

  • Стефан Евгений

    exwolf, First and formost our priests and bishops Liturgize!
    Have a listen to 2 converts to Orthodoxy discuss the Liturgy in the New Testament.
    https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/ourlife/liturgical_worship_in_the_new_testament
    You said I would be more interested to know whether the early church dressed in all the priestly refinery, Well here is your answer. The Symbolism of Vestments.
    http://www.roca.org/OA/32/32f.htm Would you appear befor the Queen of England in street clothes? then how would we appear befor the God of all creation dressed wrongly?

    Venerated Mary, yes we did from the earlist days of the church see here.
    http://shamelesspopery.com/sub-tuum/
    Here is the hymn exwolf, we sing it to this very day.
    Beneath Thy Compassion.

    As For Icons Or I should say Holy Icons. there is a deffrence. WE refuse to bow to a faceless idol.
    The Necessity of Iconography and the Idolatry of Gnosticism.
    http://frjohnpeck.com/the-necessity-of-iconography-and-the-idolatry-of-gnosticism/
    Asking the Sts to pray for us is nothing new
    On the Intercession and Invocation of the Saints.
    http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/invocationofsaints.aspx

    You said….I watched a couple of Orthodox worship clips on Youtube and I saw a lot of congregational observance but little corporate worship and participation . I really don’t understand what is ment, that we are jumping around like mad men is worship to you?
    This is the feart of
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xa_DnZizh0#t=3.235394
    The Entry of the Lord into Jerusalem, others know it a Palm Sunday.

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Thanks Ruskie – the wolf will still probably remain obstinate.

      • Стефан Евгений

        Catholics and Orthodox are so hated by these Gnostic pagans, saying that they are christian the rocks start flying.
        The Rabid hate they have is is blowing my mind on YouTube.

  • Grandmere

    He did say “it is finished”. How do you reconcile that with “slain before the foundation of the world”? God is not constrained by space and time.

    • Holy smoke! That’s a question right there!

      • Grandmere

        Ain’t it though!

        • It’s like Rod was telling me this morning, people think one dimensional instead of how the Orthodox studies the Scriptures, in layers.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        The more you see the Scriptures through my the lens of the Church ,the scales that have formed over tourneys will begin to fall – then will you finally ‘see’.

        • Oh, I have been seeing all right.

  • Grandmere

    You still have a lot of Witness in you. It will require prayer, fasting and right teaching for you to be finally set free.

  • Ceirwyn

    Indeed.

  • The JW says “I can only provide pointers as to the truth. Each one is responsible for searching and digging for it himself.”

    The Protestant says “I can only provide pointers as to the truth. Each one is responsible for searching and digging for it himself.”

    The Mormon says “I can only provide pointers as to the truth. Each one is responsible for searching and digging for it himself.”

    The Messianic says “I can only provide pointers as to the truth. Each one is responsible for searching and digging for it himself.”

    The Baptist says “I can only provide pointers as to the truth. Each one is responsible for searching and digging for it himself.”

    The cultist says “I can only provide pointers as to the truth. Each one is responsible for searching and digging for it himself.”

    The Catholic says “Go dig your own burial grounds somewhere else. All of you claim to have the truth and all of you never answer a question but always change the subject. We spoke of conversion and you spoke on 666”

    • I’m more than happy to assist others in their search for truth, but I meant that in the context of this blog comments section, I can only say so much. I’d hope that if anything stated sparked interest, then they’d be prepared to look into it themselves. Of course, they are welcome to contact me for further info and assistance.

      And, what was the question again, to which you refer? I’d love to try and answer.

      • The issue was written to you “We spoke of conversion and you spoke on 666″

        Which proves beyond doubt that all you people do is change the subject.

        This is why in every dialogue between Christian and fake-Christian, that whenever we quote verses with the tangible, they will always counter with the spiritual.

        But fake-Christians do not follow scripture despite them saying that they do.

        They don’t.

        No reader of history can write about Protestantism without writing, at least briefly, on the pre-Reformation heretics. Catharism “the pure ones” was a Christian dualist or Gnostic revival movement that thrived in some areas of Southern Europe, particularly northern Italy and southern France between the 12th and 14th centuries. The followers were known as Cathars and are now mainly remembered for a prolonged period of persecution by the Catholic church which did not recognise their belief as truly Christian. The Cathars actually became the grasshoppers martyrs. You can read all about these here.

        But how can these be ‘martyrs’ especially after studying what is rarely discussed. What one will find in this history, is that the roots of Protestantism is gnosticism from the Cathars, or the belief that Christ was not physical, but a phantom.

        To reject the physical Humanity of Christ, would then lead to the rejection of the main sacraments, the Eucharist, Confession, icons and holy water which all these were clearly defined in scripture.

        The devil by having his apostolates ignore the tangible parts of scripture it resulted in agnosticism. When perusing their history, one will find that these pre-Reformation sects rejected crucifixes, icons, Confession and the Eucharist.

        In other words, they rejected the tangible.”

        You reject the tangible. Take for example Aprons and handkerchiefs are physical objects, but this did not prevent the Apostles, since they “brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.” (Acts 19:12)

        These aprons are in the Word of God.

        Yet no matter what I do, you will simply quote the spiritual verses.

        Please explain how Paul used tangible objects for healing?

  • Grandmere

    Come on Karen. They do not even claim that it is transformed. In fact, they reject the idea of the need for it to be transformed. Most use grape juice and crackers, not bread and wine. They do not want anything other than juice, crackers and a memory a couple of times a year.

  • Grandmere

    Happy Easter, Pio.

  • Grandmere

    Karen, it was the Catholic Church that preserved the scripture through the Dark Ages. You have no gratitude to the monks who ruined their eyesight copying the Bible by hand in the light of a flickering candle??? Have you no shame???

  • Ceirwyn

    This is one point everyone seems to like to avoid.

  • Grandmere

    Karen, what he was criticizing was their traditions concerning who their neighbor was (they had a rule for figuring that out), how far a person could walk on the Sabbath (they had a rule for that), etc., etc., etc. until they had people bound hand and foot. They were angry because Jesus healed on the Sabbath for goodness sake. THAT is what Jesus was talking about, not vestments, incense or prayers.

  • Grandmere

    Pardon me, drummie. Actually, it is grace through faith.

    • “grace through faith”

      You mean its not through Luther?

      O my

      • Grandmere

        Luther????? We threw him overboard and he was swallowed by a dragon.

        • I thought the story goes that he was swallowed by a big fish and after three days the fish spat him out on the shores of Geneva.

          • Grandmere

            I like your version better. And I did mess up. We didn’t throw him overboard. The fool jumped. And The Sovereign of the Seas cruised on.

          • racarrera

            So that’s why Calvinism smells so bad.

  • So the Holy Spirit had no involvement in healing the woman or transforming the water into wine?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Men starting their own churches is one of the worst traditions known to mankind.

    • Grandmere

      I was wondering if you were gonna help us out? Roll up your sleeves, grease your skillet and get to work! I’ll get you a glass of water and fan you with my apron.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Really? That’s not what Holy Writ states – ‘ whoever hears YOU, hears ME. Whoever rejects YOU, rejects ME.’ Luther REJECTED – sounds like you did too.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    1 Tim 3:15/Luke 10:16

  • Grandmere

    Are you really saying that their belief regarding the Eucharist has nothing to do with their belief in the power of the Holy Spirit, but that they believe it is not correct to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit? That is the nuttiest thing I think I have ever read here. I mean, that one will be recorded in the annals.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    St. Paul advises that we are to keep the traditions that have been handed down – ergo all the man-made churches started their own traditions that were invented rather than keeping those handed down.

    • Grandmere

      You go, girl. I could never find a verse about Sunday night service or Wednesday night prayer meeting. They are traditional in many protestant churches. We don’t knock them for it. If they want to do that, it hurts no one. We don’t get bent out of shape because their tradition is immersion. I need a cup of Chef’s coffee.

      • Or that they still practice infant dedication the same way Hannah dedicated Samuel to the Lord, but turn around and howl about infant baptism.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The rejection of the Eucharist is in Scripture – in fact, it was the FIRST great apostasy – perhaps you should read John 6:66 – see how you believe what those apostates that left believed.

    • karen

      It could be that they left because they thought it was literaland did not understand that he was speaking spiritually. Jesus spoke this way often.

      • Grandmere

        They left because they knew it was literal. Jesus never called out for them to come back: that they had misunderstood and that he was only speaking in metaphor. No. He let them depart in their unbelief.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        Jesus – since He is God – had a solemn duty to correct their misunderstanding – you forget- they were disciples of Jesus.

      • Woody

        No, Jesus being God knew they rejected His Words but note that He did not run after them to explain, because He did mean it literally and physically, His greatest Gift to His One Holy Catholic Church.

  • Wrong again.

    WHERE IN THE ARTICLE DID IT MENTION THE MARK OF THE BEAST?!

    Answer: nowhere.

    You started a thread that did not address the article and then realizing you were trapped you threw out distractions trying to prove your points.

    As I stated earlier and yesterday, there was already an exposition done on the Mark of the Beast and you failed to even go there. You comment something so stupid like, “I don’t think Jesus had the Muslims in mind,” and are completely ignorant of how Islam first came to be.

    Go to the Mark of the Beast article and read it from start to finish.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The completion of the Passover Supper into the New Passover is what was ‘ finished ‘ – it’s pathetic to have to explain this because what is revealed is your ignorance. There were 4 cups of WINE in the OT Passover thT had to be consumed- Jesus and the apostles left the Pasover Supper after the third cup of wine had been consumed – this is probably why they could not stay awake while Jesus prayed in the Garden – Jesus drank the last cup – the 4th cup – while on the cross – which was the Cup of Consumption – which is why we have ‘consumatum est.’

    • Grandmere

      They don’t understand why he asked if he had to take “this cup” but in the same breath humbled himself to death, even death on the cross.

  • “Sola Scriptura, is the only way to ensure the integrity of the faith.”

    I mean excuse me. When I became Catholic we had to renounce all heresies, especially Luther. To be Orthodox is the same. Hank would not believe in sola anything as you have watched James While state it clearly. You missed the video?

    • Grandmere

      I guess he thought Athenasius was being presumptuous when he wrote his enduring creed. I mean, he was only trying to ensure the integrity of the faith. But because it’s not in the canon we should disregard it? Aye, yie, yie!!

    • Don W. Lambert

      “Protestantism” isn’t a “true religion”. “Roman Catholicism” isn’t a “true religion”. Simply, Luther “saw the light” that the Papacy was promoting falsehood for illicit gain. The title to this article is pure sensationalism. It’s misleading. In the simplest and politest way I can put it, I put aside all the “doctrines of men”, including the blatant heresy taught by some of the vilest, and evil “Popes” down through history, and embrace the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ. I like a lot of what your ministry accomplishes Walid, but your seeming fanatical adherence and myopic dismissal of the atrocities perpetrated by Rome in history puts a taint to it all. I have no doubt of your standing before Christ and your devotion to Him. But please stop bashing all those that choose to kneel before the throne of Christ and not the “pseudo throne” in the Vatican.

      • Woody

        No organization on earth has put forth a steady stream of holy men as the popes, the first 19 having giving up their lives for Christ and others since then (not bad for a string of 266)

  • DanteRivers

    I think the comment was brilliant and many persons contributed to this insight. Many of them I have interacted with or have read their articles on this sight.

    “What good is ‘Christ in you'”

    I have been a Baptist for 40 years. I went through a humiliating trial that I would not wish on my worst enemy and I had the easy part my beautiful wife had the hard part (mental illness).

    I can think of no higher honor than to be called by God to worship the Trinity through the Liturgy in the presence of His Holy Icons and with a people that have suffered unimaginable trials for over 1000 years. As for works I cannot heal the sick or cast out demons but by submitting to the authority of the catholic church and learning their disciplines I hope to become a much better servant of God.

  • “a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth”

    Can you explain in detail for all of us and from scripture what is “spirit” and what is “truth”?

    Its okay, you can take a year or two to construct your answer in several volumes. We will be waiting.

    “jump through so many hoops and learn so many things and divulge so much private history that by the time you do everything they want you to do you could be dead–literally.”

    How many hoops did Abraham jump through tp reach the promised land?

  • Grandmere

    See my reply to Karen, below, regarding the traditions Jesus was talking about.

  • Grandmere

    That means they need you. Don’t let someone else’s sin keep you away.

    • Woody

      You hit it; i have a friend who said, “43 years ago I really fixed this priest I disagred with. Boy did I fix him.” I said, “Yah, you sure did. you cheated yourself out of 43 years of Jesus’ Body and Blood.” What a gift!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Because Martin Luther ended the ministerial priesthood – and the sacrifice – that’s why. Ironically – that’s exactly what the Antichrist is going to accomplish, according to Scripture – so Luther assisted the devil.

    • Kamau41

      Indeed, Julie.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Trying to lead people into the truth is a divine mission. Jesus said that unless you eat His flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you. He who eats his flesh and drinks his blood has ETERNAL LIFE and will be raised on the last day.

    • karen

      Well Julie just about every Christian Church partakes of the bread and wine ritual on a regular basis.These are people who love Jesus very much and believe in his death and resurrection. If it is true as you say that it is important to eat the actual flesh and blood of Christ then I am sure that our loving Jesus sees that they do through the power of the Holy Spirit,wetherthey believe they are or not. The faith in Jesus and the partaking of the bread and wine are being done as he commanded out of love and faith in his precious sacrifice and victory.

      • Well Karen Cain and Abel both loved God and both presented a sacrifice and only one was accepted.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Interesting – I would like to know if the man-made churches are the ones responsible for deciding the Canon of Scripture – I would like to know if they hoped church. Ohnciks to define dogma and belief in the face of heresy. It’s sad how ignorance is blinding – the oldest SURVIVNG prayer to Mary has been dated to the year 250- it’s from Egypt – its called the SubTuum Praesidium.
    I’d like to know how the man-made churches evangelized the world when they didn’t exist until 500 years ago.

  • Menachem Mevashir

    Is this article true? And what about the schisms between Catholics and Orthodox?

    • “Is this article true? ”

      No. We made it up. We are spearheading Fake News.

  • “Martin Luther objected to church forgiving sins …”

    Then look up Shoebat and “Luther” and go to these articles and refute away.

    You can’t and you won’t.

    • Kamau41

      She most definitely won’t be able to refute. Impossible. In fact, I highly doubt she will even take up your request.

  • So to have the cross drawn on our forehead is to take the mark of the beast like I did on Ash Wednesday?! You are INSANE.

    • Kamau41

      It’s truly very sad! The insanity with these people just don’t end.

      • They are like a horse that have been trained to circle the same way over and over again. Since she has admitted to leaving the JW, she is still ensnared by their damnable teachings and is repeating everything she has heard from their ready-to-“refute” booklet with no actual history, no Church Fathers, and certainly no thorough understanding of why the Apostolic Church teach and practice they way they do.

        It is the more the pity. She cannot see that she slandered the entire Catholic and Orthodox Church, and insulted the memories of those who gave their lives in defense of the Faith, including the most recent martyrdom of the Coptic who were slain while celebrating Palm Sunday.

        When I finally told her how it was Arius who was the forerunner of the Antichrist, it didn’t even faze her as she “acknowledged” but reverted instantly back to slandering the Catholic Church with sophism.

  • You are not paying attention, then.

    Jesus left us His Church:

    “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you,” (Matthew 28:19-20).

    Elsewhere Jesus said:
    “As the Father has sent me, so I send you.’ […] If you forgive sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:21, 23).

    St. Paul, instructing his protege Timothy, said of the Church:
    “[…]if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth,” (1 Timothy 3:15).

    From the get-go when Jesus commissioned His disciples, He gave them the authority to a) forgive sins or retain sins (which does happen when the confessor does not show signs of repentance), b)the Church are to be placed under the supervision of bishops which is supported throughout the Pauline’s epistles, and c) the Church is responsible for safeguarding and defending the truth.

    Therefore, it is the Church that is the gatekeepers while Christ is the gate for all to come through.

  • You rightfully say the Holy Spirit is God.

    Then it should not be a stretch to believe that the Holy Spirit is involved in every facet of worship in the Church, including in the Sacrament of the Eucharist. The Church since the 1st century taught and believed in the Eucharist as literal Body and Blood of Christ. Justin Martyr (110-165 AD) said the Church would refuse to give the Eucharist to those who refuse to believe what the Church taught:

    “And this food is called among us εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ as enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we have been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, Chapter LXVI

  • And that is why we have so many evangelical “Emergent Church” movement taking place all over because they crack open the Bible, exclaim, “Aha!” And start their own church….

  • Julie LaBrecque

    The crew here is not ignorant – your wares will not go over because we are all well-informed people.

  • Tom_mcewen

    can you point to single secular historical source for your slander? Not a protestant talking to another protestant on the tin-can telephone. The Catholic Church murdered a 100 million+ or in fact a claim by a Baptist Charlie Buck in a book in 1836 of 50 million, zero Empirical evidence. Later increased to 100 million by a Baptist minister’s wife. Zero empirical evidence. False witness is a mortal sin. Give me evidence from a any number of secular Universities. I gave you history, I give you St Ignatius who described the church in that period as did the two Bishops before him, St Polycarp then St John, Apostle and bishop of Ephesus and the writer of the Gospel and Revelation. Give me historical documents before 1830.

  • Grandmere

    Veneration and worship are no the same thing. Somebody lied to you.

    • Kamau41

      So many are so confused with the difference.

      • racarrera

        So few understand basic English.

        • Kamau41

          You are so right about that one. There is a total disconnect.

        • Raph Sebastian

          Indeed, how can we then try explain Dulia, Hyperdulia and Latria to them? They think the Bible was written in English and as you have stated they hardly even understand that!

          • racarrera

            We’ve had this problem since the beginning, I’m afraid. Our theology began to split during the time of Augustine, who didn’t read Hreek, and Jerome, who did, but didn’t understand the linguistic nuances. This is why I will always contend that theology should be taught in Greek, the rhetorical process in Latin, and the Bible in the vulgar tongue. It’s okay to read in the vernacular, but never to try and handle theology with it. This destroys the foolish idea of KJV only.

          • Now you can see why I tend to stick with the Ante-Nicene Fathers since they were closer to the thinking of the disciples. That’s not to say there is no quality in the Nicene and Post-Nicene Period Fathers because obviously, we can learn a great deal from someone like St. Athansius, St. Augustine, or St. John of Damascus, et al.

            I just find the Ante-Nicene Fathers gives the best background on why Catholics and Orthodox both celebrate Mass the way they do today.

          • racarrera

            You and Stefan will love this: https://t.co/7TaswOylvF

          • He….got…balls…

            Holy smoke!

            Mad respect to him.

          • racarrera

            Mad, mad, mad…

          • Any readings on angry Muslims’ reactions?

          • racarrera

            Nothing yet, but I’m not looking hard today. I’ll be doing so after liturgy tomorrow.

          • Tomorrow’s the day…

            Christ’s Resurrection.

            The Ottoman’s Resurrection as well?

          • racarrera

            God willing.

          • You have the bottom statement and the tope statement. The Crescent underneath. It is after the Seed of the Woman indeed.

          • Hmm…

            AWESOME! It means I’m in the right camp then!

            HAIL MARY, the Lord is with thee! Blessed are thou among women and blessed be the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of death.

          • Ayyyymen.

          • Kamau41

            AMEN, AMEN!!

          • Kamau41

            Truly love it.

          • racarrera

            Wisdom, indeed.

          • Man, being involved into Apostolic successions have opened my eyes to the ugliness of anti-Apostolic Church.

            Now I understand what it means to be truly Catholic and truly Orthodox.

            So…

            LONG LIVE POPE FRANCIS!
            LONG LIVE PATRIARCH KIRILL!

            Let’s see how fast the stone throwers come after this.

          • racarrera

            Amen to all of this!

          • “Let’s see how fast the stone throwers …”

            O hell, the Palestinians are coming.

          • Let them come! We all survive when we stick together! Shields together, sword at the ready!

            HOLD! HOLD! HOLD!!!!!

          • You must be speaking of them tall spears. As tall as a man.

          • Kamau41

            Your eyes are now wide opened.

          • Raph Sebastian

            I agree brother Rudy. The nonsense of reading English verses without knowing the Greek meanings is simply foolish.

            I heard on radio this charlatan Joseph Prince from Singapore preaching about those who left the LORD in Capernaum, this clown said that the LORD needs them to open up their purses and give because the LORD needs to help others. Then the charlatan started asking will those people there listen or will they leave? Then he started singing…and you left me..just when I needed you most.

            This sort of scripture twisting is rife. The gullible idiots in the audience obviously didn’t know any better that that is not the reference or the right scriptural interpretation. Sadly the fell for the trap.

          • racarrera

            You nail a great point, my brother (and it happens my brother bears the same name). Charlatans prey on the simple. This is why believers were commanded to heed their priests and then learn to supplement their knowledge. There are some things which may or may not be optional, but the words in our shared Nicene Creed are absolutely not up for discussion. Most of these folks have never heard of the Creed, or subscribe to a feeble one.

          • Woody

            yes, I tested my wife, a lifelong Catholic< with Acquinas this year–I read one sentence and smiled-She said "What does that mean." I answered "i don't know." then on to the next sentence–same result. Yatta.

          • Raph Sebastian

            I had the same problem until I started reading his Summa Theologica in the original language it was written in, i.e. Latin, then it made sense. Lost in translation is truly a real thing.

            St Thomas is often quoted by natural lawyers and is studied by law students as well.

          • racarrera

            You can’t. If it isn’t in KJV English, and in the simplest of terms devoid of their actual meaning, they won’t understand it.

          • Grandmere

            It’s like trying to discuss string theory with an oyster.

          • racarrera

            The oyster tastes good, at least.

          • Its for barbarians. Are you a barbarian racarrera? 🙂

          • racarrera

            Galician on one side (which that heavy Celtic admixture), and East Prussian on the other. Yes, indeed, boss.

  • Grandmere

    So He has the power to overshadow a virgin and use her flesh to engender the God man, but He doesn’t have the power to overshadow bread and wine and make that God man truly present in the Eucharist. That sounds like blasphemy to me.

  • Grandmere

    Because they don’t BELIEVE…… That is the problem. Unbelief.

    • Raph Sebastian

      Unbelief is disobedience.

    • Kamau41

      BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Vinny Zee

    Wow. What an incredible story and testimony. I used to listen to him about 15 or so years ago. When I went home to the church, I thought I was all alone. I am amazed at the stories I continue to hear and read of those on the same journey.

  • Grandmere

    There were no non Christians. There were only Catholics, heretics and pagans.

  • Tom_mcewen

    There are so many protestants coming out of the wood work I feel less courageous then St Ignatius of Antioch when he foretold I am the wheat of God to be ground by the teeth of animals to be found as the pure bread of Christ, I am writing to all the churches

  • Raph Sebastian

    Please find out what is the word “believe” means as it is used in scripture in the language it was originally written in, i.e. Greek.

  • Woody

    Trevor is right “Thou art Cephas (Rock) and upon this Cephas (Rock) I will build my Church” and He did unless you believe He was a liar,
    “Unless you drink of my blood and eat of my flesh you shall have NO life within you.” (transformed at every Mass – bread and wine into

    • Raph Sebastian

      Woody my dear brother! So glad to see you! A very blessed Passiontide and Paschal feast to you and your household.

      • Woody

        You two!

  • Kamau41

    Karen-
    As what both Trevor/Woody had already correctly revealed is that you can’t have Jesus without His Church. Here is a link below that you should review:
    https://churchpop.com/2017/02/25/why-you-cant-have-jesus-without-the-church/

  • Kamau41

    “Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.”(2 Thess 2:15)

  • Kamau41

    “Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
    But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the HOUSEHOLD of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR and FOUNDATION of truth.” (2 Thess 2:15, I Tim 3:15)

  • Raph Sebastian

    You disply an utter lack of any semblace of intelligence and honesty. If you had any of those two qualities that are essential in critical thinking you would not post the vile drvel that you did. History and the succesdors to the Apostles alteady proves you wrong. But we all know you are here not to find truth but to throw stones and repeat your vile slanders.

    You should have given us the person that first stated the points you make in your argument. Let’s be honest, these are not your learned and researched opinions. They are regurgitations of something you learnt.

    So tell us who taught you this and which “church” you now attend. Even the most dishonest person who utters the slanders you have can twist scripture to suiit their narrative, which I might add is previsely what you have done. Scripture warns us of the consequences of those who do.

    If the Orthodox and Catholic Church is the beast then what do you call JW’s. Can you defend the blasphemy of Jesus was a god? So now that you have become Protestant do you believe that Jesus is God?

    Next show us all that what you believe is what any Christian believed for 1500 years before your cult leader Luther came onto the scene.

    It’s abundantly clear you left one cult for another. That cult of hating all Catholics and the Catholic Church. You can claim otherwise but your own words betray you. Like how Judas betrayef Jesus you will betray the authentic Church for a man made one. There is a cure though, repentence, confession, Holy Mass and the Eucharist. None of your rock concerts and “worship” is going to save you.

  • Dr. Zugby’s research is phenomenal.

  • You are in agreement with Muslims. Congratulations.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Always manipulating scripture – that’s Satan’s trick. You left out the part about WHO HAS THE KEYS!!!!!!

  • Raph Sebastian

    Once again you have been proven to be a slanderer. Your reply is posted just ss quickly as mine.

    Don”t try to play victim here. Tell us eho taught you the slander you keep repeating and which “church” you attend.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Stop with false information would ya? The telescope in Arizona named ‘lucifer’ is NOT the telescope operated by the Vatican – the Vatican telescope is named VATT. ‘Lucifer’ is owned by a consortium in Europe.

    • Raph Sebastian

      They won’t stop. They like slandering because it makes their beliefs legitimate. The accuser is always the one that is doing the work of the diabolical but points the finger at others and screams, “Look! Look! They are evil!”.

      While you have blown his moronic post out of the water, it doesn’t mean that he will stop reposting this crap all over the place and elsewhere. It’s a cut and paste job as you can see. It’s probably on his notepad or a word document that he copies and pastes.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        It’s like they just go around sprinkling rabbit turdballs
        all over the place. So – let’s imagine I purchase an apple tree for my orchard. After the requisite number of years for fruit to manifest, my apple tree produces oranges. I continue to believe that I have an apple tree and when asked if I own an apple tree I respond ‘yes’. When asked if I own an orange tree I respond ‘No’. When I bake my favorite apple pie recipe using the fruit from my ‘apple’ tree and take a bite, I believe that I have just baked the best apple pie ever. These people are nuts.

        • Raph Sebastian

          Holy cow! That made me fall off my chair! I agree these people are nuts!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Scripture states that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth (1 Tim 3:15). Jesus stated that whatever they bound on earth was bound in heaven – so you’re out.

  • SSHOLE?

    I hate the SS. Talk about ‘friendly’ and you go round telling folks they are SS? Or maybe you are just behaving like a donkey King James version?

    And I am confused here. You accuse me of being SS and now you accuse me of being Muslim. Ibin sharmoota.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Karen – it was THE CHURCH – that is, the Catholic Church, that canonized the Bible and that was done in the 4th century – do you see the problem yet? No one had Scripture as we know it. Whatever their priest or Bishop said – that was it – that was the truth. The Apostles didn’t want around for the Bible to fall from the sky before they began – and Jesus never said a word about writing anything down – he told them to ‘teach and baptize. You protestants have differing beliefs from one to another – yet you don’t see the problem. Yours is a book religion, whereas ours is a living religion handed down from the Apostles. It’s like a team that’s been playing basketball since it was invented being told from people 200 years later that have a book on how to play basketball that they are playing the game wrong.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Did Jesus go to heaven the day He was crucified?

  • Julie LaBrecque

    How can you trust anything but the church that Jesus Christ founded? You must think Him a liar, or incompetent to keep the promise that He would be with them until the end of time, and that the Gates of Hell would no

  • PaulF

    ‘If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds’ – 2 John 10.

  • PaulF

    The falling away from confession was the making of the psychiatric profession. The difference between the two is that with confession you get healed, from the roots up.

  • PaulF

    There is some truth in what you say brother. I remain in the Catholic church because it was there from the beginning and will be there at the end, and the Eucharist is the only way I know how to obey John Chapter 6.

  • PaulF

    They don’t usually last 2,000 years and counting.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Talk to a priest or if you are shy, start on Catholic websites, watch the journey home which like you are protestants who fell in love with the church or found it coherent, their stories may help, go to a RCIA class. Mass is confusing to protestants, we stand when the gospel is read, when we pray or kneel for the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the center of the mass, we don’t visit, this is serious to us, it is not preaching, we have three reading for the mass taken from the liturgical calendar, this includes a teaching on the gospel, the first two readings from the old and normally the letters are used to illustrate the gospel using typology, the new is in the old and old is in the new. We do the whole bible every three years, Mark one year, Matthew, Luke and John is used in the celebrations. If you can buy a used catechism of the Catholic Church, it is 864 pages long, but logical and we’ll put together, it starts with the creed of 325AD it is also on line. Don’t worry about feeling out of place at mass at first, mass at the end is just you and the Eucharist, no one looks at or judges you. I have five priests all have double PhDs and are humble men, some of who has served prison time for the faith. We have 38 nationalities in our mass, so we are catholic, Acts9-31 “ekklesia Kathilikos.” Universal. We have history, my church was built by King Vacslav II in 1285AD over an earlier church. There was a war between Catholic Spain and Elizabethan England and in war the first victim is truth. Myths and fairytales is not true history, as John F. Kennedy said, trust but verify

    • Стефан Евгений
      • Tom_mcewen

        No, it is from a book on the Cuban missile crisis in the ninth chapter on one of the pages to the left halfway down, I haven’t read it for twenty years, but I remember reading it. I will research it you want. It is in one of my comments about two years ago.

        • Стефан Евгений

          I’ll look, we may have this proverb in common.

          • Tom_mcewen

            I know there is a Russian saying and maybe Kennedy had that in mind so the connection would ring a bell to the Soviet leadership, I was a high school student just hiding under my desk at the time.

  • Grandmere

    Because I am a rational being. Just think about it.

  • Grandmere

    He wasn’t baptized by one of the apostles in a river if that’s what you mean.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Tell me how does the theory of “solo Scriptura” work for an Roman empire which was Christian both east and west before the bible, before Solo Scriptura was possible? Search the gospels for the author’s names they are not there, they are assigned by the testament of the apostolic fathers. The scriptures were not dropped from the pocket of Jesus onto the sands of the sea of Galilee. The bible was only canonized by the work of prayful men after the councils of Rome, Hippo and Cartagena in 397AD.

  • Grandmere

    Do not give up. Keep searching. Keep on asking questions. Read what the early Church Fathers wrote. Seek and you will find. I will pray for you today. You may have just taken the first step on the journey to the greatest joy you will ever know on this earth.

  • Grandmere

    Karen, they never invoke the Holy Spirit and humbly ask him to act upon the elements. If they don’t ask, why do they think it happens?

  • You committed a sin – slander. In doing so, you have insulted the memories and living of those in the Catholic and Orthodox Church who have suffered and died for the hatred of the Faith, including the Coptic who were celebrating Palm Sunday.

    Your constant refusal to consider Islam and the mark of the beast of Islam is what John hinted in Revelation demonstrates two things. 1) you are ensnared by the damned Jehovah’s Witness garbage, and as my wife likes to say, “Garbage in, garbage out.” 2) had you read and studied the root of Islam, you would have learned of a priest excommunicated from the Catholic Church for teaching the denial of Christ’s divinity. That priest name was Arius and his movement is called Arianism.

    It was the Catholic and Orthodox who upheld and defended Christ’s divinity at the First Nicene Council after responding to a call from emperor Constantine to settle the disputes of Christ’s divinity. It was St. Alexander of Alexandria who defended Christ’s divinity and it was his disciple, St. Athansius who identified Arianism as the harbinger of the Antichrist. In the 8th century, it was St. John of Damascus who linked Islam to Arianism thus fulfilling what 1 John wrote of how Antichrist theology was coming from Christian who was expelled from the Church.

    This entire thread could have been avoided had you taken my advice and read the exposition on the mark of the beast instead of wasting our time with slanders we have heard a thousand time over.

    This of course won’t faze you because you are ensared by the bear trap of the damned Jehovah’s Witness garbage. Good day.

  • You are wrong. Church affiliations matters. This won’t faze you because you have all the answer and demonstrate Ostrich Syndrome.

  • Start reading how the church fathers taught the Faith and why Catholics and Orthodox believe what they believe today. That’s what I did.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Then I thank you, there was a war between Catholic Spain and Elizabethan England and the first victim of war is truth. These are black legends and this war continues in the minds of many. Use secular history not religious history, there is bias. Crosscheck, check the footnotes and sources.

  • Grandmere

    HERETIC!!!!!! Repent of your heresy. Time here is short but eternity is a whole different matter. You are still under the spell of the Jehovah’s Witness cult.

  • Cuzick

    I hope this heaps in your search for truth.

    On the Veneration of the Saints

    by Fr Georges Florovsky

    CHRIST HAS CONQUERED THE WORLD. This victory is further unveiled and fulfilled in the fact that He built His Church. In Christ and through Christ the unity of mankind was brought about truly for the first time, for those who believed in His Name become the Body of Christ. And through uniting with Christ they unite likewise with each other in a most sincere concord of love. In this great unity all empirical distinctions and barriers are done away with: differences of birth in the flesh are effaced within the unity of a spiritual birth. The Church is a new people filled with grace, which does not coincide with any physical boundaries or any earthly nation-neither Greeks nor Jews, and a struggle of faith, through the “Mystery of water,” through a union with Christ in the “Mysterious font,” through the “grace of becoming sons” ; i.e. “sons of God” for Whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth.” In Holy Christening the one to be enlightened leaves “this world” and forsakes its vanity, as if freeing himself and stepping out of the natural order of things; from the order of “flesh and blood” one enters an order of grace. All inherited ties and all ties of blood are severed. But man is not left solitary or alone. For according to the expression of the Apostle “by one Spirit are we all baptized,” neither Scythians nor Barbarians-and this nation does not spring through a relationship of blood but through freedom into one Body. The whole meaning of Holy Christening consists in the fact that it is a mysterious acceptance into the Church, into the City of God, into the Kingdom of Grace. Through Christening the believer becomes a member of the Church, enters the “one Church of angels and men,” becomes a “co-citizen of the saints and ever with God,” according to the mysterious and solemn words of St. Paul-one comes “to mount Zion, and to the city of the Living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.” And in this great throng he is united unto Christ. For, “unus Christianus-nullus Christianus.”* [“one Christian-no Christian.” Webmaster]

    The essence of the Church is in its unity, for the Church is the Mansion of the One Spirit. This is not an external and empirical unity or catholicity. The Ecumenical character of the Church is not something external, quantitative, spacial, not even any geographical quality, and does not at all depend on the universal dispersal of believers. The visible unity of the Church is merely a result but not a foundation for the catholicity of the Church. Geographical “universality” is a derivative and not an essential necessity. The catholicity of the Church was not diminished in the first ages of Christianity when communities of the faithful were scattered like small islands, almost lost in the immense world of unbelief and resistance. It is likewise not diminished now when the majority of mankind is not with Christ. “Though a town or even a province fall away from the Ecumenical Church,” says Metropolitan Philaret, “the Ecumenical Church will always remain a complete and incorruptible body.” Likewise the Church will remain Ecumenical in the “last days” when it will be compressed into the “little flock,” when the mystery of “retreat” will be revealed and when faith will hardly be found on earth. For the Church is Catholic according to its nature.

    If one seeks for external definitions, then perhaps the Ecumenical nature of the Church is best expressed by the feature of its “all-timeness” (of its running through all times). For believers of all ages and all generations, who are alive now, who lived, and who will be born, belong to it in the same way. They all form one body, and through the same prayer are united into one before the one throne of the Lord of Glory. The experience of this unity through all times is revealed and sealed in the whole cycle of Divine worship. In the Church time is mysteriously overcome. The outpouring of grace seems to stop time, to stop the run of minutes and seasons, to overcome even the general order of consecutiveness and the disconnectedness of those things which took place at different times. In a unity with Christ through grace, in the gift of communion with the One different epochs and generations become our Spirit, men of living contemporaries. Christ reigns equally in the Church among the departed and among the living, for God is not God of the dead but of the living.

    The Church is a Kingdom not of this world but an eternal Kingdom, for it has an eternal King-Christ. The Church is a kind of mysterious image of eternity and a foretaste of the Resurrection of all. For Christ the Head of the Body is “the life and the resurrection” of His servants and brothers. The measure of births has not yet been filled and the stream of time still flows. The Church is still in its historical wanderings but even now time has no power and no strength in it. It is as if the Apocalyptic moment is forestalled-when there shall be no more time and all time shall cease. Earthly death, the separation of the soul from the body, does not sever the tie between those who have faith, does not part and does not separate co-members in Christ, does not exclude the deceased from the limits and composition of the Church. In the prayer for the departed and in the order for burial we pray Christ “our immortal King and God” to send the souls of the departed to the habitations of the holy, “to the abodes of the righteous,” “to the bosom of Abraham,” where all the righteous are at rest. And with special expressiveness in these parting prayers we remember and call on the hosts of the righteous, and on the Mother of God, and on the powers of heaven, and on the holy martyrs and on all the saints as on our heavenly co-citizens in the Church. With powerful emphasis the all-timely and catholic consciousness of the Church is disclosed in the order of burial. The faithful who attain to a genuine union with Christ Himself in their struggle and in the saving “mysteries” cannot be parted from Him even by death. “Blessed are they who die in the Lord-their souls shall abide with the blessed.” And the prayers for the departed are a witness and measure of the catholic consciousness of the Church.

    Reverently the Church watches for any signs of grace which witness and confirm the earthly struggle of the departed. By an inner sight the Church recognizes both the righteous living and departed, and the feeling of the Church is sealed by the witness of the priesthood of the Church. In this recognition of its brothers and members who have “attained to perfection” consists the mystical essence of that which in the Christian West is termed the “canonization of saints,” and which is understood by the Orthodox East as their glorification, magnification and blessedness. And firstly it is a glorification of God “Wonderous is the Lord in His saints.” “God’s saints,” said St. John of Damascus, “reigned over and mastered their passions and kept uninjured the likeness unto the image of God, according to which they were created; they of their own free will united themselves with God and received Him into the habitation of their heart, and having thus received Him in communion, through grace, they became in their very nature like unto Him.” In them God rests-they became ” the treasures and the pure habitations of God.” In this the mystery was accomplished. For as the ancient fathers said-the Son of God became man so that men could be deified, so that sons of men should become sons of God. And in the righteous who attain to love this measure of growth and “likening” unto Christ is fulfilled. “The Saints in their lifetime already were filled with the Holy Spirit,” continues St. John of Damascus, “and when they died the grace of the Holy Spirit was still present with their souls and with their bodies in the graves, and with their images and with their holy ikons not because of their nature but because of grace and its activity… the saints are alive and with daring they stand before the Lord; they are not dead … the death of saints is more like falling asleep than death,” for they “abide in the hand of God”; that is, in life and in light… and 11 after He Who is Life itself and the source of life was ranked among the dead, we consider no more as dead those who depart with a hope of resurrection and with faith in Him.” And it is not only to get help and intercession that the Holy Spirit teaches every believer to pray to the glorified saints but also because this calling on them, through communion in prayer, deepens the consciousness of the catholic unity of the Church. In our invocation of the saints our measure of Christian love is exhibited, a living feeling of unanimity and of the power of Church unity is expressed; and, conversely, doubt or inability to feel the intercession of grace and the intervention of saints on our behalf before God witnesses not only to a weakening of love and of the brotherly and Church ties and relationships but also to a decrease in the fulness of faith in the Ecumenical value and power of the Incarnation and Resurrection.

    One of the most mysterious anticipations of the Orthodox Church is the contemplation of the “Protecting Veil of the Mother of God,” of Her constant standing in prayer for the world, surrounded by all the saints, before the throne of ‘God. “Today the Virgin stands in the Church and with hosts of saints invisibly prays to God for us all; angels and high priests worship; apostles and prophets embrace each other-it is for us that the Mother of God prays unto the Eternal God!” Thus the Church remembers the vision which was once seen by St. Andrew, the fool for Christ’s sake. And that which was then visibly revealed remains now and will stand for all ages. The “Contemplation of the Protecting Veil” of the Mother of God is a vision of the celestial Church, a vision of the unbreakable and ever-existent unity of the heavenly and the earthly Church. Arid it is also a foreseeing that all existence beyond the grave, of the righteous and the saints, is one untiring prayer, one ceaseless intercession and mediation. For love is the “union of all perfection.” And the blessedness of the righteous is an abiding in love. The Great Eastern saint St. Isaac the Syrian, with incomparable daring, bore witness to the all-embracing power which crowns a Christian’s struggles. According to his words this struggle for God acquires fulness and completeness and attains its aim in purity-and purity is “a heart which is merciful to every created being.” And what is a heart that has its mercy? asks the saint, and answers: “A burning of the heart for all creation for men, birds, beasts, demons and all creatures. And from remembrance of them and contemplation of them such a man’s eyes shed tears: because of a great and strong compassion which possesses his heart and its great constancy, he is overwhelmed with tender pity and he cannot bear, or hear of, or see any harm or any even small sorrow which creatures suffer. And therefore he prays hourly with tears for the dumb animals, and for the enemies of Truth and for those who harm him that they should be guarded and that they should be shown mercy; and also for all the reptiles he prays, from this great compassion which is constantly aroused in his heart in likeness to God.” And if even on earth so fiery is the prayer of saints, even with a more fiery flame it burns “there” in the “embrace of the Father” on the bosom of Divine Love, close to God, Whose Name is Love, Whose care about the World is Love. And in the Church Triumphant prayers for the whole Catholic Church do not cease. As St. Cyprian said-Christian prayer is for all the world; everyone prays not only for himself but for all people, for all form one, and so we pray not with a particular individual prayer but with one common to all, with one soul in all. The whole deed of prayer must be determined by an ecumenical consciousness and unanimous love, which includes likewise those whose names are known to God alone. It is not characteristic of a Christian to feel himself alone and separated from all, for he is saved only in the unity of the Church. And the crown of all prayer is that flaming love which was expressed in the prayer of Moses: “Forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray Thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written… ” The center of Church worship is Eucharistic worship. Here the whole Church is united also. Here a sacrifice is made and prayers are offered “for all and for all things,” here the whole Church is remembered the militant and the triumphant. In the mystery-action of the Liturgy “the powers of heaven invisibly celebrate with us,” they are present and celebrate with the celebrating priest. And unto great saints it was granted sometimes by God’s grace to contemplate in visible form that which is hidden from the sight of the sinful-the co-celebration of the angels. Thus it is known that St. Seraphim of Sarov on one occasion was granted to see the triumphant entrance of the Lord of Glory surrounded by hosts of angels. Such an entrance of the Lord of Glory is often represented in ikon form on the walls of the holy Altar, and not only as a symbol but likewise as an indication that invisibly all this actually takes place. And all the ikon decoration of the Church generally speaks of the mysterious unity, of the actual presence of the saints with us. “We picture Christ, the King and the Lord, without separating Him from His army, for, the Army of the Lord are the saints”-said St. John of Damascus. Holy ikons are not only images of remembrance, “images of the past and of righteousness,” not only pictures, but are actually sacred things with which, as the fathers explained, the Lord is “present” and by grace is “in communion 11 with them. There exists some mysterious objective tic between the “image” and the “Prototype,” between the likeness and the one who is represented, which is specially marked in miracle-working ikons which show God’s power. “A venerating worship” of holy ikons clearly expresses the idea of the Church’s conception of the past: it is not only a remembrance directed to something gone, but a vision by grace of something fixed in eternity, a vision of something mysterious, a presence by grace of those who are dead and parted from us, “a joyful vision of a unity of all creation.”

    All creation has a Head in Christ. And through His Incarnation the Son of God, according to the wonderful expression of St. Irenaeus of Lyons, “again commenced a long row of human beings.” The Church is the spiritual posterity of the Second Adam and in its history His redemptive work is fulfilled and completed, while His love blossoms and flames in it. The Church is a fulfillment of Christ and His Body. According to the bold words of St. John Chrysostom, “only then is the Fulfiller the Head when a perfect body shall be formed.” There is some mysterious movement-which started from the awe-filled day of Pentecost, when in the face of the first chosen few it was as if all creation received a fiery christening by the Spirit towards that last aim, when in all its glory the New Jerusalem shall appear and the Bridal Feast of the Lamb shall begin. In the stretch of ages the guests and the chosen are being collected. The people of the eternal Kingdom are being assembled. The Kingdom is being selected and set aside beyond the limits of time. The fulfillment shall be accomplished in the last resurrection-then the complete fulness and glory and the whole meaning of Church catholicity shall be revealed.

    • Grandmere

      You poured you heart out Cuzy. How beautiful!

      • Cuzick

        I found this article from FR Georges Florovsky on the Orthodox Christian information center. A beautifully painted picture of the Church that anyone should be able to understand.

    • Raph Sebastian

      Amen! This should be an article on its own for those who think that they can insist they are part of the body of Christ but yet do not worship in His Church as the Apostles and ECFs and all Christians throughout Church history did and still do.

  • Grandmere

    Brandon is a drive by slanderer.

  • Grandmere

    Tell me about your recent experiences with exorcising demons and healing lepers. Don’t just leave me hanging.

  • Grandmere

    What you need to understand is this. Unlike you, God already knows all of our sins. He just wants us to quit trying to hide them and come clean about it. Hearing confession is a burden for any priest but they have heard it all. They do not internalize what they hear in the confessional.

  • Grandmere

    Go in peace to love and serve the Lord. Goodbye. Farewell. Vaya con Dios. Bon voyage. Bona sera.

  • Grandmere

    Keep on digging, Karen. I’m praying for you today. Tomorrow is Good Friday. Praying for a breakthrough for you. XO

  • Grandmere

    So the Mormon church, the Jehovah’s Witness church, the Unitarian Universalist church are all okay with you? Anf that is just three.

  • Grandmere

    Good for you Anthony. Orthodox make excellent rowers and you are young and healthy. The captain runs a tight ship but 41 will show you the ropes.

    • Tom_mcewen

      Just you wait until the Pope wants to go waterskiing and he takes over the drum. Pull my harties, pull. Rebellious scum row, row until your guts fall out.

  • “Your denomination will mean nothing. ”

    And what about yours? Will your non-denominational denomination also mean something?

    “The number 1 antichrist religion is Islam, the beast ,will kill the harlot ”

    So if Islam destroys the Catholic Church then you are for Islam.

    If so, what difference then are you from Muslims?

    Think. Use your head.

    • Raph Sebastian

      No difference whatsoever. The Protestant sided with the muslim during the Crusades, we know that for a historical fact. The Protestant also sides with the muslim because they both hate holy icons. They are both iconoclasts.

      The Protestant will rejoice if the muslim manages to destroy the Vatican but just like the muslims they think the Catholic faith is based on buildings and art.

      The Protestant prefers the Turk over the authority of the See of Peter or the authority of the other Patriarchates in the Orthodox Church. They Protestant prefers no authority whatsoever in teaching and interpreting the Holy Scriptures, which the Catholic Church brought to the world. Even this fact they try to deny.

      So much of denial, disobedience and protest in Protestantism, they even protest against each other!

      They do not know that they do the work of the devil when they mock and savage those who have left the clutches of the diabolical that is inherent in Protestantism for the fullness of truth.

      • Стефан Евгений

        RS, the absolute hate these people are spewing will male your jaw drop. Russians say “don’t touch it, it will stink” well this guy coming over to us is one of those times.
        The internet has exploded with the most stupid vile snotspewing hate for anything that looks like Catholic.
        One guy disabled comments on his vid b/c the Orthodox were defending their church.

        • Well put. They ATTACK we DEFEND. Yet they complain even when we DEFEND.

        • Now you know why I like it when Russians give some heretics bloody noses.

          • Стефан Евгений

            It’s not only heretics, I give bloody nose to. I dished out Hunky justice to a little perv 😉

        • Michelle Therese

          It seems these Catholic/Orthodox hating “Christians” believe that somehow the 10 Commandments do not apply to them. Especially, “Thou shalt not bear false witness”… and so they can spew lies and God will never hold them accountable. Scary.

          • Стефан Евгений

            I’m not worried about them today. Christ is Risen!

  • But you still need to love them and reach out to them elopes.

  • “I read my bible daily and I have never seen any scriptures where Mary must be elevated”

    You seem to be skipping a lot. “And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. ”

    Are you more blessed than the Mother of God?

    And all the crap you say about images is in full agreement with Muslims.

    How do you feel after learning you agree with Muhammad 100%?

  • Tom_mcewen

    like Hitler said of England, that he was going to wring that chicken’s neck. Which Churchill replied Some chicken some neck. I say the same about the Catholic cult, keep wringing, Nero, ten persecutions, 11 bishops of Rome murdered in a row, ending with the emperor Diocletian, the church remained and made the entire Roman empire both east and west Christian, some cult. The preserved the gospels and gave you the bible, and your church? It started the university system teaching God is rational and man can understand the works of God’s hands. Science is a Catholic invention, Western Civilization is a Catholic invention, some cult. Napoleon sacked the Vatican and struck the pope, the Pope’s tiara was cardboard covered with gold foil, so much for what treasures Napoleon left. Napoleon said his troubles began after striking the pope. Napoleon said no man strikes the Pope and lives. Pope Pius XI wrote a letter calling Hitler a scumbag and for that Pope Pius was murdered, Pope Pius XII without a single weapon saved the lives of 840,000 Jews, and your true faith saved who? Hitler ordered the invasion of the Vatican state and the orders were never executed by the generals in charge, some cult. This cult feeds more people everyday then any organization on earth and you? This cult provides more medical care then any other organization and you? This cult educated more students then any other organization on this planet and you? This cult is the oldest organization in existence on the planet and your church? Some chicken some neck.

  • Really?

    ‘I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt 16:19].

    Did Jesus give the keys to himself?

    Impossible. I am from the east and we know well what giving keys mean.

    And since according to you scripture must interpret scripture, in the Old Testament, the “number two” person in the Kingdom literally held the keys. In Isaiah 22: 19-22 we find a reference to Eliakim bin Hilqiyeh, the master of the palace of King Hezekiah (2 Kings 18:17ff) and keeper of the keys. As a sign of his position, the one who held the keys represented the king.

    This right there spells out the Vicar. The one who represents the King of kings.

    I know you now reject this, but waiting for judgment day to find out will be too late.

    And it not only representing the king, but he acted with his authority and had to act in accord with the king’s mind. Therefore, St. Peter and each of his successors represent Christ on this earth as His Vicar and lead the faithful flock of the Church to the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Finally, Jesus says, “Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

    This was also the case in Judaism. It is rabbinic terminology. A rabbi could bind, declaring an act forbidden or excommunicating a person for serious sin; or a rabbi could loose, declaring an act permissible or reconciling an excommunicated sinner to the community.

    Here, Christ entrusted a special authority to St. Peter to preserve, interpret and teach His truth.

    Even some of your best Protestants could not escape these facts:

    D.A. Carson (Protestant Evangelical) —

    “Although it is true that petros and petra can mean ‘stone’ and ‘rock’ respectively in earlier Greek, the distinction is largely confined to poetry. Moreover, the underlying Aramaic is in this case unquestionable; and most probably kepha was used in both clauses (‘you are kepha’ and ‘on this kepha’), since the word was used both for a name and for a ‘rock.’ The Peshitta (written in Syriac, a language cognate with Aramaic) makes no distinction between the words in the two clauses. The Greek makes the distinction between petros and petra simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine petra could not very well serve as a masculine name.” (Carson, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary [Zondervan, 1984], volume 8, page 368, as cited in Butler/Dahlgren/Hess, page 17-18)

    “The word Peter petros, meaning ‘rock,’ (Gk 4377) is masculine, and in Jesus’ follow-up statement he uses the feminine word petra (Gk 4376). On the basis of this change, many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretations, it is doubtful whether many would have taken ‘rock’ to be anything or anyone other than Peter.” (Carson, Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary [Zondervan, 1994], volume 2, page 78, as cited in Butler/Dahlgren/Hess, page 18)

    R.T. France (Anglican/Protestant Evangelical) —

    “The name Peter means ‘Rock’, and Jesus played on this meaning to designate Peter as the foundation of the new people of God. His leadership would involve the authority of the steward, whose keys symbolized his responsibility to regulate the affairs of the household. Peter would exercise his leadership by his authority to declare what is and is not permissible in the kingdom of heaven (to bind and to loose have this meaning in rabbinic writings)….It is sometimes suggested that because the word for ‘rock’ (petra) differs from the name Petros, the ‘rock’ referred to is not Peter himself but the confession he has just made of Jesus as Messiah. In Aramaic, however, the same term kefa would appear in both places; the change in Greek is due to the fact that petra, the normal word for rock, is feminine in gender, and therefore not suitable as a name for Simon! The echo of Peter’s name remains obvious, even in Greek; he is the rock, in the sense outlined above.” (France, New Bible Commentary with consulting editors Carson, France, Motyer, Wenham [Intervarsity Press, 1994], page 925, 926)

    Oscar Cullmann (Lutheran) from Kittel’s Greek standard Theological Dictionary of the New Testament —

    “The obvious pun which has made its way into the Gk. text as well suggests a material identity between petra and petros, the more so as it is impossible to differentiate strictly between the meanings of the two words. On the other hand, only the fairly assured Aramaic original of the saying enables us to assert with confidence the formal and material identity between petra and petros: petra = Kepha = petros….Since Peter, the rock of the Church, is thus given by Christ Himself, the master of the house (Is. 22:22; Rev. 3:7), the keys of the kingdom of heaven, he is the human mediator of the resurrection, and he has the task of admitting the people of God into the kingdom of the resurrection…The idea of the Reformers that He is referring to the faith of Peter is quite inconceivable in view of the probably different setting of the story…For there is no reference here to the faith of Peter. Rather, the parallelism of ‘thou art Rock’ and ‘on this rock I will build’ shows that the second rock can only be the same as the first. It is thus evident that Jesus is referring to Peter, to whom He has given the name Rock. He appoints Peter, the impulsive, enthusiastic, but not persevering man in the circle, to be the foundation of His ecclesia. To this extent Roman Catholic exegesis is right and all Protestant attempts to evade this interpretation are to be rejected.” (Cullmann, article on “Rock” (petros, petra) trans. and ed. by Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament [Eerdmans Publishing, 1968], volume 6, page 98, 107, 108)

    Herman Ridderbos (Protestant Evangelical) —

    “It is well known that the Greek word (petra) translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ Because the feminine ending of this noun made it unsuitable as a man’s name, however, Simon was not called petra but petros. The word petros was not an exact synonym of petra; it literally meant ‘stone.’ Jesus therefore had to switch to the word petra when He turned from Peter’s name to what it meant for the Church. There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that He was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock [petra]’ indeed refer to Peter. Because of the revelation that he had received and the confession that it motivated in him, Peter was appointed by Jesus to lay the foundation of the future church.” (Ridderbos, Bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew [Zondervan, 1987], page 303 as cited in Butler/Dahlgren/Hess, page 35-36)

    Craig Blomberg (Protestant Evangelical) —

    “Acknowledging Jesus as The Christ illustrates the appropriateness of Simon’s nickname ‘Peter’ (Petros=rock). This is not the first time Simon has been called Peter (cf. John 1:42 [wherein he is called Cephas]), but it is certainly the most famous. Jesus’ declaration, ‘You are Peter,’ parallels Peter’s confession, ‘You are the Christ,’ as if to say, ‘Since you can tell me who I am, I will tell you who you are.’ The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in v. 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification.” (Blomberg, The New American Commentary: Matthew [Broadman, 1992], page 251-252, as cited in Butler/Dahlgren/Hess, page 31-32)

    William F. Albright and C.S. Mann (from The Anchor Bible series) —

    “Rock (Aram. Kepha). This is not a name, but an appellation and a play on words. There is no evidence of Peter or Kephas as a name before Christian times. On building on a rock, or from a rock, cf. Isa 51:1ff; Matt 7:24f. Peter as Rock will be the foundation of the future community (cf. I will build). Jesus, not quoting the OT, here uses Aramaic, not Hebrew, and so uses the only Aramaic word which would serve his purpose. In view of the background of vs. 19 (see below), one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as meaning the faith, or the Messianic confession, of Peter. To deny the pre-eminent position of Peter among the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence. Cf. in this gospel 10:2; 14:28-31; 15:15. The interest in Peter’s failures and vacillations does not detract from this pre-eminence; rather, it emphasizes it. Had Peter been a lesser figure his behavior would have been of far less consequence (cf. Gal 2:11ff).” (Albright/Mann, The Anchor Bible: Matthew [Doubleday, 1971], page 195)

    Craig S. Keener (Protestant Evangelical) —

    “‘You are Peter,’ Jesus says (16:18), paralleling Peter’s ‘You are the Christ’ (16:16). He then plays on Simon’s nickname, ‘Peter,’ which is roughly the English ‘Rocky’: Peter is ‘rocky,’ and on this rock Jesus would build his church (16:18)….Protestants…have sometimes argued that Peter’s name in Greek (petros) differs from the Greek term for rock used here (petra)….But by Jesus’ day the terms were usually interchangeable, and the original Aramaic form of Peter’s nickname that Jesus probably used (kephas) means simply ‘rock.’ Further, Jesus does not say, ‘You are Peter, but on this rock I will build my church’….the copulative kai almost always means ‘and’…. Jesus’ teaching is the ultimate foundation for disciples (7:24-27; cf. 1 Cor 3:11), but here Peter functions as the foundation rock as the apostles and prophets do in Ephesians 2:20-21….Jesus does not simply assign this role arbitrarily to Peter, however; Peter is the ‘rock’ because he is the one who confessed Jesus as the Christ in this context (16:15-16)….” (Keener, A Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew [Eerdmans, 1999], page 426-427)

    Francis Wright Beare (Presbyterian/Reformed) —

    “The play on words — ‘Peter’, this ‘rock’ — requires a change in Greek from petros (properly, ‘stone’) to petra. In Aramaic, the two words would be identical — Kepha the name given to Peter, transliterated into Greek as Kephas (Gal. 2:9), and kepha, ‘rock’. The symbol itself is Hebraic: Abraham is the ‘rock’ from which Israel was hewn, and in a rabbinic midrash, God finds in him a rock on which he can base and build the world…” (Beare, The Gospel According to Matthew [Harper and Row, 1981], page 355)

    Eduard Schweizer (Presbyterian/Reformed) —

    “The ‘rock’ is Peter himself, not his confession. Only on this interpretation does the pun make sense.” (Schweizer, The Good News According to Matthew [John Knox Press, 1975], page 341)

    Ivor H. Jones (Methodist) —

    “…in 16.18 Peter is the rock on which the new community could be built, as Abraham was described in rabbinic writings as the rock on which God could erect a new world to replace the old….The arguments have raged across the centuries over the phrase ‘on this rock’ : does it mean on Peter, or on Peter’s confession? But the text is clear: Peter was divinely inspired and this was the reason for his new function and the basis of his authorization. His function was to provide for Jesus Christ the beginnings of a stronghold, a people of God, to stand against all the powers of evil and death…They are God’s people, the church…as the church they represent God’s sovereign power over evil (18.18b) and rely upon a new kind of divine authorization…This authorization is given to Peter; so Peter is not only a stronghold against evil; he also is responsible for giving the community shape and direction.” (Jones, The Gospel of Matthew [London: Epworth Press, 1994], page 99)

    M. Eugene Boring (Disciples of Christ) —

    “16:18, Peter as Rock. Peter is the foundation rock on which Jesus builds the new community. The name ‘Peter’ means ‘stone’ or ‘rock’ (Aramaic Kepha Cepha; Greek petros)…. There are no documented instances of anyone’s ever being named ‘rock’ in Aramaic or Greek prior to Simon. Thus English translations should render the word ‘stone’ or ‘rock,’ not ‘Peter,’ which gives the false impression that the word represented a common name and causes the contemporary reader to miss the word play of the passage: ‘You are Rock, and on this rock I will build my church.’ Peter is here pictured as the foundation of the church….On the basis of Isa 51:1-2 (cf. Matt 3:9), some scholars have seen Peter as here paralleled to Abraham; just as Abram stood at the beginning of the people of God, had his name changed, and was called a rock, so also Peter stands at the beginning of the new people of God and receives the Abrahamic name ‘rock’ to signify this.” (The New Interpreter’s Bible [Abingdon Press, 1995], volume 8, page 345)

    Thomas G. Long (Presbyterian/Reformed) —

    “Since, in the original Greek, Petros and petra both mean ‘rock,’ it is easy to spot this statement as a pun, a play on words: ‘Your name is “Rock,” and on this “rock” I will build my church.’ Jesus’ meaning is plain: Peter is the rock, the foundation, upon which he is going to erect his church…Jesus spoke Aramaic, however, not Greek. In Aramaic, the words for ‘Peter’ and ‘rock’ are the same (Kepha)…the most plausible interpretation of the passage is that Jesus is, indeed, pointing to Peter as the foundation stone, the principal leader, of this new people of God…there is much evidence that he also played a primary leadership role in the early Christian church….For the church, the new people of God, Peter was, indeed, the ‘rock,’ corresponding to Abraham of old, who was ‘the rock from which you were hewn’ (Isa. 51:1).” (Long, Matthew [Westminster John Knox Press, 1997], page 185, 186)

    Richard B. Gardner (Brethren/Mennonite) —

    “The key question here is whether the rock foundation of the church is Peter himself, or something to be distinguished from Peter. If the latter, Jesus could be speaking of Peter’s faith, or of the revelation Peter received. It is more likely, however, that the rock on which Jesus promises to build the church is in fact Peter himself, Peter the first disciple (cf. 4:18; 10:2), who represents the whole group of disciples from which the church will be formed. At least four considerations support this view….” (Gardner, Believers Church Bible Commentary: Matthew [Herald Press, 1991], 247)

    Apparently Isaac you didn’t study enough and relied on your own faculties instead of relying on the solid rock.

    • Woody

      great astute one

    • Raph Sebastian

      [Apparently Isaac you didn’t study enough and relied on your own faculties instead of relying on the solid rock.]

      Brother Walid, you have just exposed the man who builds his house on sand. Oh boy that’s got to sting!

      Hearers and Doers (Matthew 7:24-27)
      24 ‘Everyone then who hears these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. 25 The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its fall!’

  • “Walid, isn’t your bomb-throwing arm tired by now?”

    No. I stopped throwing molotov cocktails. Instead, I learned from Americans how you use a flame thrower. Works great. It burns grasshoppers clearly off the sky. I hate Nazis and grasshoppers. Here, you can see me here after the three other guys:

    Nazis. I hate these guys.

    As far as the Catholic Orthodox split. I pay no attention. The Orthodox are here with me in the trenches. I love Russians too. They killed Nazis and now they are killing the effing Muslim terrorists.

    Anymore splitting hairs out of you and I will burn your feathers off.

    • Kkdgrace

      ” Instead, I learned from Americans how you use a flame thrower. Works great. It burns grasshoppers clearly off the sky.”
      My…. I sure do enjoy your turn of a phrase! Maybe that’s part of why I enjoy reading your comment so much!

  • We approve comments usually in the morning and late evening. Yours must have been posted in between. So stop acting as if we are “persecuting the saints” for you are a self-proclaimed saint indeed.

  • May I remind you brother Anthony that these researches you are viewing have not been debunked by anyone. They stay away from it. Just as they stay away from the preservation of saintly bodies.

    Let me tell you a little story I have never told before.

    I had once confronted three nuns in San Francisco. I can arrange you speak with them if in doubt. I was Protestant. They told me that the Eucharist turns into the flesh of Christ.

    I mocked at them.

    They said that they will pray for me.

    And after two decades I called them up to tell them I was Catholic.

    They said that they prayed for me EVERY day.

    Go figure that one out.

    The three nuns where my wife’s sisters.

  • Woody

    Baptism of “Desire.”

  • Woody

    “I will be with you (the Church) until the end of the ages.” Jesus. Not here yet.

  • Woody

    No question who was the boss of the Apostles-Peter’s name is mentioned 193 and the next apostle – John only 29 times and Peter is mentioned “first” every time except once.
    You “pebble” or “stone” doesn’t fly since Christ while He spoke Greek never spoke it to the Apostles–He spoke Aramaic and Peter is Cephas or “Rock” in that language ….
    And, Christ knowing He would be leaving the earth shortly would hardly leave Himself in Charge and He knew the Apostles to head His Church would need a “leader” like all earthly organizations. Yes, and Walid is making good points below also.

  • “Sorry for the misunderstanding Walid. I wasn’t accusing you of being in the SS. Just a total misprint.”

    You mean me staying up all night worrying about it was for nothing?

    Naaaa, just kidding. No problem.

  • We don’t mind a scuffle. Just make sure you bring your own bandaids 😉

  • filomena seiffert

    The priest attire during celebration of the Holy Mass comes the Jews priests attire to worship ans enter into the holy of hollies tabernacle. It is right because God deserves the beast . As for Body and Blood of Jesus, He stated at least for times before the Jews that His flesh was food indeed and His blood true drink and who does not my flesh and drink my blood has no life. Wnen he offered the bread to the disciples He said; this is my body…how you reconcile with that? Did anyone saw the power leaving His person resurrecting Lazarus? If do not see with your flesh eyes the person of Jesus does not mean His is not there. Several bleeding hosts after consecration have proven to be human blood from a man under great distress. As for the priest power to forgive sins was given Jesus Himself when He said to His disciples the sins they forgave would be forgiven, the sins they retained would be retained.

  • “What? Benny Hinn!”

    Don’t take one example of my reply and base your rebuttal.

    So you are saying that Benny is fake?

    “Thats who you turn to for refuting my comments on healing! And a random YouTube video showing all of half a second of a lady eyes…sorry Walid, I expected a little more.”

    Excuse me? Look up Padre Pio and the blind woman and feast your eyes. She had no pupils. Confirmed by doctors.

    Among the many miracles of healing attributed to Padre Pio, some are so unusual and unique that they have been the subject of much discussion and controversy. In these particular cases, the person who has been healed lives a completely normal life afterward, even though they continue to have all the physical symptoms of their illness. From a scientific viewpoint, they are still sick. One such person is Gemma di Giorgi.

    Gemma di Giorgi was born on Christmas day in 1939, in the Sicilian town of Ribera. Almost immediately, her mother realized that her eyes were different from other children’s eyes. The truth was, Gemma was blind. Her mother took her to a doctor who was unable to determine the gravity of her condition. She was referred to two specialists in Palermo. They determined that Gemma had no pupils in her eyes; that nothing could be done for her blindness; that her condition was inoperable. Gemma’s family was desperate, but there was nothing they could do. Her parents often took her to Mary’s altar in the church to pray because they felt it would take a miracle to heal her eyes.

    A relative who was a nun, advised the family to seek out Padre Pio. Her advice gave the family a ray of hope. Gemma’s grandmother asked the nun to write a letter to Padre Pio on Gemma’s behalf.

    When the nun returned to her convent, she wrote to Padre Pio asking him to pray for Gemma. One night the nun saw him in a dream. Padre Pio asked her, “Where is this Gemma for whom so many prayers are being offered that they are almost deafening?” In her dream she introduced Gemma to Padre Pio and he made the sign of the cross on her eyes. The next day the nun received a letter from Padre Pio in which he wrote, “Dear daughter, rest assured that I will pray for Gemma. I send you my best wishes.”

    The nun was struck by the coincidence of the dream and the letter that followed so she wrote to the family and encouraged them to take Gemma to see Padre Pio. And so it was, that in 1947, the grandmother took 7 year old Gemma to San Giovanni Rotondo to see Padre Pio, praying and hoping all the while for a miracle.

    On the trip from Sicily to San Giovanni Rotondo, Gemma’s eyesight began mysteriously functioning.

    About halfway to their destination, Gemma began to see the sea and a steamship and she told this to her grandmother. At Gemma’s words, her grandmother as well as other friends who were accompanying them, all began to pray. Nevertheless, the trip from Sicily to the monastery was very long and difficult. Gemma’s grandmother was still preoccupied with the idea of seeking Padre Pio’s intercession regarding Gemma’s eyesight.At San Giovanni Rotondo, in the midst of a large group of people, Padre Pio singled Gemma out and called her by name. He heard her confession, and even though she made no mention of her blindness, he touched her eyes with the wounded part of his hand, tracing the sign of the cross. At the end of the confession, as he blessed her, he said, “Sii buona e santa.” (Be good and saintly)

    The grandmother was upset that Gemma had forgotten to ask Padre Pio for the grace of a healing while she was in the confessional and so she began to cry. Gemma became upset also and began to cry. The grandmother went to confession to Padre Pio and in her own words, “I asked the grace for Gemma and I told Padre Pio that Gemma was weeping because, in her confession with him she had forgotten to ask this grace. I will never forget his soft and tender voice as he answered me with these words, “Do you have faith, my daughter? The child must not weep and neither must you for the child sees, and you know she sees.” I understood then that Padre Pio was alluding to the sea and the ship Gemma had seen during the trip and that God had used Padre Pio to break through the darkness that covered Gemma’s eyes.” The same day, Padre Pio gave Gemma her first Holy Communion and again made the sign of the cross over each of her eyes.

    When Gemma returned to Sicily her eyes were again examined by a specialist. The doctor, to test Gemma, held up various objects in front of her and she was able to see each one of them. She was able to count the doctor’s fingers at a distance of sixteen feet. Gemma, even though without pupils, had her eyesight; she could see. The doctor declared that Gemma’s eyes were in no condition to see. There was no medical explanation for it.

    Many doctors from all over Italy requested to examine Gemma’s eyes. This extraordinary cure, and the prophecy preceding it, aroused enormous interest in the Italian press during the summer of 1947. Gemma’s sight continued to improve and she was able to go to school and learn how to read and write. She was able to lead a perfectly normal life.

    Clarice Bruno, author of the book, “Roads to Padre Pio” met Gemma in May of 1967. Clarice said that despite the fact that Gemma’s eyesight was functioning, she still had those foggy, strange looking eyes that are a characteristic of the blind. Clarice told Gemma that she was writing a book about Padre Pio and wanted to include in it the story of Gemma’s miracle. Gemma asked Padre Pio for permission to share her story and he gave his consent. Gemma, due to the sunny and very windy weather, was wearing sun glasses on the day she made the request of Padre Pio. He commented on this. “Why,” he said as he passed his hand over her eyes,”are you wearing glasses? You see very well.”

    Father John Schug, author of “A Padre Pio Profile” who met Gemma and interviewed her, also testified, “She looks like a blind person. Her eyes are sallow and lusterless, but there is no doubt that she can see. I saw her reach for a phone book, check a number, and dial the number without groping.”

    While the doctors could not all come to a consensus on the subject of Gemma di Giorgi’s medical condition, the facts that can be definitely established are these: (1) Gemma di Giorgi was born with a severe congenital defect of the eyes; (2) before the prayers of Padre Pio were enlisted, her vision was either quite defective or altogether nonexistent; and (3) afterward, though the physical structure of her eyes remained unchanged, Gemma was able to see normally–even though officially classified as legally blind.

    So what must the conclusion be? Simply that while Gemma and her grandmother were traveling to San Giovanni Rotondo to ask for healing grace, the grace came to them through the intercession of Padre Pio’s prayers before they had even arrived at their destination. God, for His own mysterious reasons, had wanted it to happen this way. Gemma has since traveled the world telling her story.

    “I tell you we have people healed, and you ask for proof?? As if the word of testimony is totally insufficient.”

    Sorry claim is not sufficient proof. And lets not get into your personal healing and such. We are discussing medical proof.

    • Tom_mcewen

      Saints are fearful monsters to be hidden from, we believe we are sinners and they know we are sinners and what those sins are. The Japanese says a man has three hearts on the others see, the one he knows and one that is hidden. To have a saint look into your lies is a form of being naked in front of strangers without​ the bodyguards of lies needed to remain a human otherwise​ we are forced to see ourselves with honesty, truth and the death of ego, which means the death of who we are and who we love most ourselves. Saints make movie monsters into a joke.

  • You first have to prove from the Bible that God wants to destroy the Vatican.

    Here refute away:

    http://shoebat.com/2013/05/31/mystery-babylon-is-mecca-not-vatican/

    Apparently you are for Islam bombing the Vatican.

    So join the Muslims.

    “Catholics teach replacement theology, so Israel is probably irrelevant to the Catholics.”

    Stop changing the subject.

  • Why then do you not refute under the other comment where I answered this issue? Or is it that you enjoy chattering away?

  • Listen MD. Around here, no complaining. Its rough. If you are sensitive and complain about how everyone beats you up, then you can find the exit sign. We brawl. Your comment is late …

    We fight. We argue. And no one cries like a sissy.

    These are the rules. Fight well.

  • I agree with you on his eschatology. It is found wanting.

    • Tom_mcewen

      The Jews are still investigating the trial of Jesus. Yes it was illegal, it took place after dark, it was not the 70 scholars required, a death sentence could not be executed until had been reviewed after several days had passed. Jesus in his answers was careful to guard the chief priest from blasphemy, the witnesses were shown to commit false witness. It was illegal.

  • Love it when folks expose Walid Shoebat.

    • Tom_mcewen

      I love it when people are completely ignorant on any understanding of any subject that the church has dogma. Yesterday doesn’t exist and no one is brighter and more learned then anyone in the past. No threads to the past, it is a new blanket, manufactured today for the old is inferior.

      • Raph Sebastian

        More like a new blanket that has been thoroughly slept in and soiled to give it that “old smell and fake patina”. But like fake Gucci bags, it’s still fake and inferior to the authentic.

        You know the old saying from authentic learned and faithful Christians of the past:

        [ If your bible is missing 1 & 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, Daniel and Esther…then you are reading a bible that is codified by the Jews after they rejected and denied the LORD.

        But if your bible consists of all these books, you are reading the what Christ Himself read and taught from. The was later codified by the Catholic Church that He founded, the same Church that codified the canons of the New Testament. ]

        • Tom_mcewen

          I will remember that, thanks.

  • You said, “I don’t think.”

    That’s correct. You don’t think. At all.

    That’s your problem.

  • Kamau41

    Well, the reality is that both the Church Fathers/the Holy Scriptures totally disagrees with you, which is why you are unable to refute-that much is for certain.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Stop acting as if you are a victim. Your victim card has long expired. You best cut it up and throw it away.

    Now you accused the moderators of this blog without justification of censoring you in some way shape or form. I replied to a your post in which you accused the moderators, to which I replied (in under an hour of being posted) to show the falsity of your accusation.

    Will you now apologize for your false accusation?

    Next since you are new here, you will not understand that there are thousands of people that visit this site and leave comments, each one needs to be moderated, for quite simply some are personal attacks and some find it fine to write swear words in their posts, these take time to moderate, after all this is a Christian site, don’t you agree?

    While no Protestant is censored for posting on “purgatory” or any other Protestant false theology or misunderstanding, Protestants have had comments deleted when they post blasphemies, syncretism, nominalism, preterism and heresies. Despite your vile slanders you still have had your posts approved. A Catholic posting on that charlatan “Dr.” James White’s blog about the Early Church Fathers (the successors of the LORD’s Apostles) would be banned!

    Once again, will you apologize for your slander (libel)?

  • Raph Sebastian

    The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Tim 3:15. This is the Church the LORD founded, it not only consists of the people but it is also the teaching seat and authority.

    When the LORD said HE is building His Church HE wasn’t lying. St Paul was teaching his prodigy Timothy about how one should behave in church, i.e. a building and the Church is the final authority.
    He built His Church and gave His authority to His Apostles and the Apostles passed down that authority since the great commission is to baptize in water and spirit in the Trinitarian formula the whole world. Jesus knew that His apostles will not live forever and thus would be unable to preach the Gospel to everyone, this is why the authority is apostolic.

    The Church is not just a mere concept of the body of Christ but has other functions and has been given the authority to bind and loose.

    This is something you will never be taught or worse refuse to learn, you are going to keep saying you have no need to be part of any church as long as you believe you are part of the body of Christ. Then that means you are an authority to yourself.

    So what denomination are you? Where do you worship?

  • Kamau41

    Millennial Dawn,
    To show how confused you really are, this is what you said,
    “The very fact that the article refers to Catholicism/’orthodoxy’ clearly *is* mentioning the ‘Beast’ and its mark. It is encouraging readers to join the beastly system and take its diabolical mark! You try and make distinctions where there are none.”
    So, you are now telling us this is not slander?

  • Kamau41

    Slanderer. Get lost.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    How then did they have the power to cast out demons? You don’t understand Easterrn idioms – in other words – when you fail to produce good fruits, it is as though He never knew you. James 2:24 “you see that you are saved by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.”.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Im not thin skinned.

    • Kkdgrace

      Oh my goodness! You most certainly aren’t!

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Compare to Isaiah 22:15 -22

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Funny- the ignorant early Christian’s believed that Jesus DID give charge to Peter and to his successors.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Ever heard of the Book of Revelation? You need to crack it open – the dead in heavdn are offering our prayers up to Gif. Guess you think

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Luther’s ego got in the way – so did Lucifer’s.

  • Woody

    Luther held up his bible and said, “Why the bible is inerrant!” Then he proceeded to tear out seven books and throw them away? wha? What happened to inerrant?

    • Grandmere

      Go, Woody! You hit it out of the park, bro.

  • Grandmere

    If you don’t like grasshopper how about HERETIC? Like that better?

  • Woody

    He had Baptism of “desire.” Again, like Baptism of Blood (Martyrdom) other forms exist but water is the normal way.

  • Woody

    Yes, Peter as Pope stood Simon Magus (the first heretic) to the face.

  • Kamau41

    “Pride goeth before destruction: and the spirit is lifted up before a fall.”(Pr 16:18)

  • Tom_mcewen

    Coptics are the name used by what we call Egyptians today. They trace their apostolic beginning to St Mark, the Bishop of Alexandria in 52AD, they were Catholics, there was nothing but catholics. They later split around 451AD over the creed keeping the understanding of the Orthodox, but they are apostolic and some are still in Communion with the see of Peter. They welcomed in the Muslims who took over and started heavy taxes and forceful conversions on the Coptics, they are now 10% of the population and under heavy threat and the churches, the leadership, mass and instruction is under the control of the Muslim state. A very brave people and a holy people. They have had a visitation by the Theotokos in the late 60s? Which over 500,000 people saw and they have a bishop doing good work on projecting understanding of Christianity on television to Egyptians. The 21 Coptics beheaded in Libya were Egyptian citizens and are braver then I. At the time when Augustine was Bishop of Hippo all of North Africa was Christian and the faith was rich with the desert fathers and monasteries of great learning.

    • Michelle Therese

      The Copts will be our judges!
      I’ve read that the Copts were the real genetic Egyptians? Or at least closest in genetics, depending on how much Arabian blood was forced into their lineage? I thought that was interesting.

  • Стефан Евгений

    arauna palm, you call us “The blind leading the blind” Just who is blind here? “I spoke to an orthodox man who studies all the Orthodox books and he said that Mary can intercede for women” sence when did The Theotokos intercede for just women, I thought it was for all mankind?
    We get it from this passage from the bible.
    John 2:1-11Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

    2 And the third day, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee: and the mother of Jesus was there.
    2 And Jesus also was invited, and his disciples, to the marriage.
    3 And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine.
    4 And Jesus saith to her: *Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.
    5 His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.
    * Jesus used the Greek word for woman γυνή (goo-nay’) in no way is it a put down, to put it in English he said Lady. So Christ called his mother Lady…. just as Orthodox, and catholics do to this day.

    No wonder the Muslims call all Christians a bunch of idolaters…. Just who is the idolater on here ? it’s not us.
    We refuse to bow to a faceles Idol. You reject that Christ our True God, came in the flesh, just like Muslims.
    https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/bowing-down-to-a-faceless-idol/

    St. John of Damascus: On the Holy Images

    Things which have already taken place are remembered by means of images, whether for the purpose of inspiring wonder, or honor, or shame, or to encourage those who look upon them to practice good and avoid evil. These images are of two kinds: either they are words written in books, as when God had the law engraved on tablets and desired the lives of holy men to be recorded, or else they are material images, such as the jar of manna, or Aaron’s staff, which were to be kept in the ark as a memorial. So when we record events and good deeds of the past, we use images ….

    In former times God, who is without form or body, could never be depicted. But now when God is seen in the flesh conversing with men, I make an image of the God whom I see. I do not worship matter; I worship the Creator of matter who became matter for my sake, who willed to take His abode in matter; who worked out my salvation through matter. Never will I cease honoring the matter which wrought my salvation! I honor it, but not as God. How could God be born out of things which have no existence in themselves? God’s body is God because it is joined to His person by a union which shall never pass away. The divine nature remains the same; the flesh created in time is quickened by a reason endowed soul. Because of this I salute all remaining matter with reverence, because God has filled it with His grace and power. Through it my salvation has come to me. Was not the thrice-happy and thrice blessed wood of the Cross matter? What of the life bearing rock, the holy and life-giving tomb, the fountain of our resurrection, was it not matter? Is not the ink in the most holy Gospel-book matter? Is not the life-giving altar made of matter? From it we receive the bread of life! Are not gold and silver matter? From them we make crosses, patens, chalices! And over and above all these things, is not the Body and Blood of our Lord matter? Either do away with the honor and veneration these things deserve, or accept the tradition of the Church and the veneration of images…

    Here is what us Orthodox think of your Gnostic Islam.

    • racarrera

      Magnificent retort.

      • Стефан Евгений

        Thanks brother, I think that Im improveing?

        • racarrera

          Indeed!!

    • Tom_mcewen

      You spoke to an orthodox man. A Orthodox man is not a authority, he is not a bishop, he does not interpret dogma, a Orthodox man has as much authority to teach what the Orthodox believe as a man in a gas station. A man told he was in the airforce in 76 and they found a UFO, what I found remarkable was not the UFO but that he was in Vietnam in 76 since the north Vietnamese invaded in 75. A man told me….

  • You belabor too much.

    I stated: “why we should not approach saints and angels in heaven?”

    Your response: “I’m sorry, but you lost le completely at the end… I’m not sure what orifice you are talking out of”

    Okay. Let me help you then.

    You brought up heavenly Jerusalem. I provided you with verses that state:

    “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.” (Hebrews 12:22-24)

    Yu were clueless to what these verses mean.

    This is the whole goal and process of salvation, that is, to transform us striving to become “the righteous” who are “made perfect” (saints).

    Then to be a Christian you must come to Mount Zion to Saints in heaven (approach saints) and angels “you have come”.

    This is the whole goal and process of salvation, that is, to transform us striving to become “the righteous” who are “made perfect”. This is the communion between the Church Militant on earth and the Church Triumphant in heavenly Mount Zion, where the saints, angels and The Trinity reside.

    This is the strive of the Christian.

    But when it comes to God’s people, neither God or Christ ever speak of “reform” but “restore”. The sinner is to be restored to the Second Man, Jesus Christ. Even the Church, Joel never speaks of ‘reform’ but ‘restore’:

    “So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten, The crawling locust, The consuming locust, And the chewing locust, My great army which I sent among you.”

    It is only when I became Catholic that I can truly fathom the other sense of what Joel prophesied regarding these locusts, and how God will restore what the locusts have done when He revives and cleanses the Catholic Church, which the smoke of the Antichrist has already entered. But explaining all this will not make sense until we understand the Eucharist.

    For example, the feast called Pasch or Passover is loaded with amazing prophetic insight which proves beyond doubt the apostolic-succession style Eucharist that insists on eating the literal Body of the Lamb of God.

    I need not even look up the word Pasch, its a language I grew up with, Pasch (the “ch” is pronounced “kh”) means the same in Aramaic and Arabic “Faskh“; is a majestic word meaning “to split” or “to divide” in order to pass through to the Kingdom.

    So if God “split the mountain” we would say “fasakh-a-l-jabal”. Passover is where God splits the Red sea, splits Hebrews from Egyptians, splits the mountains (nations) dividing them by splitting them, splitting and separating sheep from goats. Christ splits the bread, even splitting into it, infusing into it the divine. He splits time, and is beyond time, where His passion remains current (not re-sacrifice as many accuse); and since God is above and beyond the restrictions of time (Psalm 90:2) such mystery is to be observed (memorial) forever.

    You might think: “This is a hard saying; who can we listen to it?”

    It will become clearer when you reach the end of my short marathon run. Do not run out of breath.

    In fact, the Old Testament passover puts a nail in the coffin making the Eucharist an eternal observance. How else can we explain:

    “And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.” (Exodus 12:14)

    How could God institute this Old Testament “sacrifice” calling it “memorial” while it must and will be observed “for ever”? Can anyone scientifically define “for ever” or explain an eternal sacrificial system?

    While Jews still celebrate passover, they are missing the sacrifice and the slaughtering of the lamb. In Malachi 1, He clearly prophesied the animal sacrificial system will be ‘no more’ and will be replaced and continued by a sacrificial system called “grain offering” that is “pure”. And since Israel does not continue such sacrificial system of killing a lamb, God then was speaking of the “faithful” and not simply Israel. And by this the sacrificial system continues in fulfillment of Exodus 12:14.

    If Ezekiel’s Temple was about predicting animal sacrifices that will commence when Christ returns, than God failed for two millennia, God in Exodus 12:14 specifically instructed that such sacrifice will commence henceforth from Moses and then continues “for ever”. God also calls it a “memorial” (to remember) while it had an action: a literal and eternal and continual sacrifice “for ever“.

    How is such a passover observed “for ever”?

    This can never be unless it is the past and the current continuing Passover meal, the very meal that will continue “for ever” even from when Christ said: “Take and eat; this is my body … This is my blood of the covenant … from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.” (Matthew 26:29, Luke 22:18)

    “Eat the Bread” and “drink the cup” “In My Father’s Kingdom”? Was this just simple “bread” and simple “grape juice” to be drank again in heaven (in My Father’s kingdom) for ever?

    The Eucharist is the literal Body and Blood of Christ.

    What I just etched above is considered “controversial”. But truth in the matters of Christ is only found where controversy abounds while ignorance is behind all controversy.

    In a previous article Why The Eucharist Made Me Catholic, many replied and said that my short dissertation made a compelling case how prophecy supported the Catholic position on the Eucharist. But I felt that I failed, since I only scratched the surface, and so I decided to continue running this marathon to scratch ‘another surface’ regarding the Eucharist while I explain the nature of the Catholic-Protestant schism and how to be “as wise as serpents” always asking Jesus-style questions.

    Protestantism is notorious for having ‘Trinity denying splits’. Besides the Messianic Hebrew Roots, such splits included Unitarians, Oneness Pentecostals, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses who like Islam ended up having disdain for the Trinity like you.

    Here we will bring to silence The controversy over Communion. First ask: why do we not have a controversy when Catholics and Protestants 100% agree that Protestant communion wafer never transubstantiate.

    Having no controversy over this matter should be most troubling. When Christ said to “do this in remembrance of Me” Protestants forget to ask: what is this “this” while only focusing on the word “remembrance” (which is a memorial). Instead of focusing on what this “this” is, and on every “this”, Protestants said: “So in the very words that follow ‘this is (i.e., represents or signifies) my body,’ we have an undoubted Metaphor. ‘He took the cup…saying…this is my blood.’ Here, thus, we have a pair of metaphors.” (1)

    If the bread and wine where “metaphor,” what then will they do when they read: “And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” (John 20:23)?

    First we ask: when they received His breath, did they receive CO2 Carbon dioxide?

    Was “this” ‘breathed air of Jesus’ simply an ‘allegory’ and the Son of God did not breath? Likewise, was this “blood” Christ said “is my blood” simply “wine” and was this “body” Christ said is “My Body” simply bread?

    If this was the case, the “Holy Spirit” Christ breathed was simply “breath”.

    It is this sort of forced ‘over symbolizing’ that Protestants do in their interpretation where heresy enters.

    Of course, today, when we use the word “remembrance,” we generally think in modern terms as “not to forget,” but is this a biblical view of remembrance?

    For example, “But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.” (Hebrews 10:3) Remembrance here is a sacrifice and is also an action.

    When scriptures say: “that you may be remembered before the LORD your God, and you shall be saved from your enemies” (Numbers 10:9) does it mean that “the LORD” simply forgot and now remembered and only then took action?

    No. “Remembrance” is inseparable from a resulting action.

    It would be ridiculous to think that God forgets. To do this in “remembrance” is observance, sacrifice, and action that transforms one condition to another. Therefore it is remembrance and action are one and the same. Here God “remembers” and “saves”. This theme is in several chapters of scripture.:

    But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided. (Genesis 8:1)

    God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot lived. (Genesis 19:29)

    Then God remembered Rachel, and God gave heed to her and opened her womb. (Genesis 30:22)

    For he remembered his holy promise, and Abraham his servant. And he brought forth his people with joy, and his chosen with gladness. (Psalm 105: 42-43)

    Communion is not as Protestants accuse “a repetition of Christ’s sacrifice” and is more than a “mere commemoration”. It is a perpetual sacrificial feast. And if in doubt, Malachi (as well as Daniel) end all arguments:

    “For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations [gentiles], and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure …” (See Malachi 1:10-11).

    The fact that such offering is done by the Gentiles (not the Jews) and is called “grain offering” leaves no question, this is a ‘sacrifice’ and is the Christian communion which continues “for ever” fulfilling Exodus 12.

    To solidify the argument, the previous verse where God cancels Israel’s sacrificial offering in verse 10 making the issue as clear as the sun. And once we examine the whole context it becomes even clearer than the sun, the stars in heaven, the mountains, the deserts and the seas:

    Oh that there were one among you who would shut the gates [no more temple sacrifices], that you might not uselessly kindle fire on My altar! [no burnt offering] I am not pleased with you,” says the Lord of hosts, “nor will I accept an offering from you. For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations [gentiles, not Jews], and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering [sacrificial offering, communion] that is pure [perfect]; for My name will be great among the nations [gentiles],” says the Lord of hosts. (Malachi 1:10-11)

    This is a universal system to be observed everywhere and at all times as if Christ’s passion is current and forever. And since God, as all the faithful agree, is above and beyond the restrictions of time (Psalm 90:2) this is a continual event of Christ’s Passion.

    God is “beyond time,” while controversies still arise from Protestants unaware they denounce this when they accuse Catholics of re-sacrificying Christ. It is crucial for me to state that while many would take my writ here as an attack on Protestants, God forbid, it is a defense of Catholicism. It was the Protestants who split and attacked and the Catholics simply defended. But despite the struggle, and if on one occasion even Christ honored the Samaritan over the Pharisee, and so will I prefer a faithful Protestant unaware of the facts, yet he seek, over any claiming Catholic who does not and could care less on the matters of God.

    The Protestant argument is true, but it is an incomplete truth. Christ was sacrificed “once and for all,” Christ wanted us to also remember that by partaking of this bread and wine, (which are also symbols of his body and blood), we symbolically partake of the Lamb of God offered on the altar on the cross, and by this we participate in the act of communion, we proclaim ourselves not only partakers, but also offerers of the sacrifice and also beneficiaries of it.

    But what is also true is that it becomes ludicrous to think that a modern use of “remembrance” as to simply “remember”. Such an exclusive interpretation makes useless what the New testament warned us from the beginning: “For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body” (1 Corinthians 11:29). This mandates confession and reconciliation with God prior to consuming the Lamb of God as a continual sacrifice “forever” as prophesied in Exodus 12. This ‘remembrance’ is a crucial issue and is central to our faith in Christ.

    But no matter what we write here, the ardent rejectionist and the stubborn ignorant will never cease in creating controversies, refutations and counter refutations ad nauseam to even use gnostics to say that the idea of Christ’s passion as being current in the Eucharist is tantamount to a pagan ritual. (2)

    It matters not what primitive sources we use, that clearly made the doctrine of the Eucharist as the literal flesh and blood, they would demand that we produce a more scientific explanation from the primitive church to show that “God, acting in the eucharist, effects a change in the inner reality of the bread and wine.” The devil will always take us through the rabbit trail.

  • Kkdgrace

    “In other words, to some, Christianity is exclusively Protestant, that unless someone is ‘Protestant’, they are no longer Christian”
    Ahem……and which group of “Christians” originally SPLIT from the ONE Church? Sheesh!

    • Стефан Евгений


      Have a blessed Pascha, dear!

      • Kkdgrace

        You as well, brother!

        • How come its always the Russian who gets all the blessings?

          🙂

          • Стефан Евгений

            Leaving for service soon, so have a very blessed Easter brat!
            click the cc button for translan.
            Εξέδυσαν με

          • Grandmere

            Listening, you can feel his pain and sorrow. Thanks, brother. I went to the noon service. Broke down crying as usual.

          • Стефан Евгений

            You cry, I cry, this hymn brings me to tears.
            Today He is Hung upon the Tree

          • Kkdgrace

            Ha! Consider yourself CONTINUALLY blessed, as well as in continual prayer. By MULTITUDES!! I am SO sure that MANY will back me on this. After all, truth is truth! God bless, sir!
            🙂

  • Hey, Karen, I just remembered that an earlier Church Father, closer to the time of the apostles wrote this:

    “See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be, even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church..” St. Ignatius, The Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter VIII.

    It is said that St. Ignatius (30-107 A.D.) was the child whom Christ picked up and said, “Unless you have faith like the little one, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

    The reason I wanted to quote this passage was to tell you the early Church continued the practice of the apostles in appointing elders (or bishops) that they entrusted to carry on the instruction Christ commanded them at the Great Commission.

  • You responded exactly as I expected which is to bring other references without explaining the verses I provided. This is how all cults work. I say “A” they say “B”.

    “I’m going to have to reread and respond another time.”

    Yep.Aha. Ya. Sure.

    “the church (members of the church of the firstborn). (Gathering together as a local ecclesia is certainly important – where possible.)”

    Yep. Aha. Ya. Sure. You need to deal with the verses provided. They are not speaking EXCLUSIVELY of “gathering together”. They were speaking on HOW we APPROACH the HEAVENLY MOUNT ZION through SAINTS (men made perfect) and Angels and to JESUS.

    Now you can go and play in the sandbox.

  • Oooooo, he thinks he’s got it.

    “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; (Revelation 3:7)”

    Indeed. Except you keep ignoring the corporate responsibility which yourself alludes to but completely ignores. Here I will show you your complete folly:

    “Evidently, Eliakim in the Isaiah verse, is a type of Christ.”

    Oh ya. He’s a type of Christ alright, but he was acting on behalf of heaven. He had the keys.

    “It is Jesus who holds these keys, but used Peter specially to open the doors”

    Excuse me? So now Eliakim had no keys and neither did Peter?

    So on earth Peter opened the doors. Then he must have had keys, right? All of the sudden you talk as if Jesus has the keys to your apartment as well.

    Do you have keys to your apartment? Or does Jesus have these too? Do you call Jesus when your house is on fire or do you call 911 who were appointed by God to help stupid people when they set their house on fire?

    “…and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 16:19)”

    THIS INCLUDES THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS. Why do you keep forgetting this?

    “John Gill:…Christ gave a greater power of binding and loosing, to his disciples …”

    Aha. “To His disciples” THIS IS FROM YOUR OWN QUOTE.

    “than these men had, and which they used to better purpose. The sense of the words is this, that Peter, and so the rest of the apostles, should be empowered with authority from him”

    Yep. I AGREE 100%.

    But then here comes the twist from your John Gil:

    “and so directed by his Holy Spirit, that whatever they bound, that is, declared to be forbidden, and unlawful, should be so”

    Just in matter of the law? What a trick. The Scriptures clearly state that the disciples had much more responsibility including the forgiveness of sin.

    If Christ ever intended to forgive sin exclusively through Him without priests, why then does the Scriptures make clear:

    “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained” (John 20:23).

    I guess you are going to tell me that this is on a personal basis, that if your landlord punched you for loosing your keys that in anger you have authority to ‘forgive’ or ‘not forgive’?

    You could say that “yes I forgive my landlord” and therefore his sins are forgiven. But wait a minute. What if you decided not to forgive him? Then YOU have the authority to NOT forgive sins when its God Who according to you is the ONLY authority without a corporate responsibility from a priestly authority??

    This “binding and loosing” includes the forgiveness of sins. Paul stated it clearly that “And to whom you [the priest] have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I [as a priest] have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ.” (2 Corinthians 2:10)

    Paul represents Christ IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST. This should be the end of the story.

    When I was protestant, I was told at the non-apostolic-succession church that all of our sins—past, present, and future were forgiven once we became Christian.

    Then I find the disciples having the authority to continually forgive or even retain sins in John 20. I found nothing in Scripture that says “I forgive your sins, past, present and future”.

    If sins are forgiven, past, present and future, why would Jesus teach: “And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Matt. 6:12)? Why then can’t we just once and for all say “thank you for forgiving us our debts, past, present and future and from this day forward, I will ask and pray no more”?

    Jesus was teaching us how to pray and this prayer of Our Father, is central in the apostolic-succession church and is to remain with us including asking for the forgiveness of sins.

    Does He forgive our sins, past present and future the moment we invite Jesus? No, We are told “if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

    How this was understood in the early church, in 70 AD, way before the claim that ‘Constantine changed everything’, the earliest of Christians taught that the believer should:

    “Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, AFTER confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure” (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

    And this is from 70 AD. And I guess you want me to believe Calvin and all the Johnny come lately?

    SHOW ME ANYWHERE where your ways have been practiced from 70AD to 1500 AD?

    You can’t and you won’t 100% guaranteed. You can’t answer these questions. I expect you to answer every question I ask. When you see “?” you need to answer. No slippery fish or else I will boot your hide out of here. You deny the Trinity. We are commanded to get rid of you. The heretic. I do not mind Protestants but when you deny the Trinity, you are definitely a CULT.

    Salvation is a process. So many verses are ignored and are rarely if ever studied by the simpleton who quickly jots a comment with no depth.

    It is the devil, through his trickster, institutes disorder. Christ broke the bread and gave it and said “this is my body”.

    The trickster (you) will quickly switch from literal into allegory or from allegory to literal. He also knows that he cannot answer the Jesus-style question: how could the church have for twenty centuries (not just since the sixteenth century) practiced and believed in the Eucharist? Was this all wrongly done and these could not correctly understand what Christ meant by “this is my body”?

    To answer this question, you have no other method but to go to the Church fathers and twist everything. For example, tricksters use Clement when he explains:

    “But you are not inclined to understand it thus, but perchance more generally. Hear it also in the following way. The flesh figuratively represents to us the Holy Spirit; for the flesh was created by Him. The blood points out to us the Word, for as rich blood the Word has been infused into life; and the union of both is the Lord, the food of the babes–the Lord who is Spirit and Word. The food- that is, the Lord Jesus–that is, the Word of God, the Spirit made flesh, the heavenly flesh sanctified…” (The words of the Lord from the bread of life discourse “Eat My flesh and drink My blood,”)

    “The flesh figuratively represents…”?

    Is Clement saying that the Eucharist does not represent the real essence of Christ? Then they even present Clement’s Paedagogus Book 1, chapter 6

    “Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: “Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood; ” describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise …”

    So is Clement explaining “Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood” strictly as a Metaphor?

    And Clement even concludes the chapter with this:

    “Thus in many ways the Word is figuratively described, as meat, and flesh, and food, and bread, and blood, and milk … by His own Spirit He will nourish those who hunger for the Word.”

    And you will agree.

    One can also find Tertullian “and that flesh which was the “bread given for the life of the world,” He also stated “Constituting, therefore, His word as the life-giving principle, because that word is spirit and life, He likewise called His flesh by the same appellation; because, too, the Word had become flesh, We ought therefore to desire Him in order that we may have life, and to devour Him with the ear, and to ruminate on Him with the understanding, and to digest Him by faith. (On the Resurrection of the Flesh 37)

    Are the apostolic-succession churches dismantled by these words from Clement and Tertullian?

    Hardly.

    It is here that the trickster avoids the ancient “two senses” in interpreting.

    For example, Irenaeus, around 180 A.D., close to the time of the disciples of Jesus says of the Eucharist “For as the bread, which is produced from the earth [grain], when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of the resurrection to eternity.”

    While the context is the “resurrection” of the believer the bread is “no longer common bread“.

    This is using the proper scriptural method: the two senses. Therefore, it is over.

    To explain Clement’s allegoric interpretation and other church fathers we must understand the multiple facets on how they viewed the text.

    As Christians in these days, they did not only believe in the Trinity, but also had dual and trinitarian interpretation of the Scriptures pushing aside the “veil of the letter” (Origen, Homily on Numbers. 16.9).

    Church fathers interpreted such verses as John 6 with triple meanings; the literal, the moral and the mystical.

    Christ used three when He said His “I Am” adding “The Way,” “The Truth,” and “The Life,” while 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 Paul spoke of the “body” “soul” and “spirit”.

    The early church, unlike you interpreted using allegorical and anthropological approaches. They were not the typical blog commenter of today who jots quick rebuke summing up the whole plan of God in an insulting and gymnastic approach to the Word of God.

    This mystery regarding “this is My Body” has various levels of meanings. The Logos (The Word) became flesh and so did the Eucharist. We also have the Word (Christ) and the Word of God (the Bible). Origen says

    “… but we are said to drink the blood of Christ not only in the rite of the sacraments, but also when we receive his words, in which are life, as he himself …”

    And this is why Clement said:

    “…Thus in many ways the Word is figuratively described, as meat, and flesh, and food, and bread, and blood, and milk …”

    Origen, Clement and Irenaeus also saw the word of God in the Communion and the Communion in the word of God. They did not see Christ merely in the consecrated bread and wine, but also the communion of believers and the word of God.

    You divorce the two. We don’t.

    The believers were not the only ones who resemble the body of Christ, but that Scriptures and the Body of Christ, both, resembles the Body of Christ.

    They used both senses in interpreting scripture, the allegoric and the literal approach that is so much removed by the likes of you.

    Therefore, do not return back to me by divorcing verses from other verses which is all what you were doing.

    • The more I dug into the Ante-Nicene Fathers, the more they refute Protestants and cultists who fancy themselves smarter than the next generation of Apostles after Peter, Paul et al, the more they find their jimmy-rigged theology falls apart fairly quickly.

      Hank proved this by hinting at the Orthodox Church and then made it official by converting fully into the Orthodox Church.

      That is why folks like Dawn rages against the heavenly Jerusalem, trying to move it only to end up injuring themselves in the process, because they completely lack the depth to their theology.

      If Protestants claimed they are correct in their theology, then it is not only Christ who failed for hundreds of year, it is also the Holy Spirit who also failed to guide the apostles and their successors until Martin Luther et al arrived on the scene.

      Would that be true? May it never be so! The Holy Spirit was sent, as the Father sent the Son, to a) empower the disciples, and b) to bring to knowledge everything Christ has commanded to them, and c) to guide them in the formation and thereafter until Christ come again to gather together His elect.

    • Michelle Therese

      Knockout, Ding! Ding! Ding!

  • Keep in mind Raph, that the 10% stems from LEVITICAL law regarding the Temple which is no more. So they correctly stopped following the Levitical laws for the Temple and ONLY kept one rule: MONEY.

    • Grandmere

      You mean sewing those $1000 “seeds” for shiny new jets and limos?

    • Raph Sebastian

      Yes brother Walid, it is indeed, but the Church asks us to go further than just 10% we are to give generously since we are living in a commercial world, there are expenses for every church b building, however we are commanded to go further, to feed the poor, dress the naked, help the sick etc etc etc it goes beyond the mere Levitical 10%.
      Most charlatan “pastors” throughout the world use these monies for their personal gain.

      In Singapore recently, there was one that siphoned off $50 million dollars for personal gain and for his wife’s pop career. I’ve driven past her rented mansion in the Hollywood Hills years ago and I asked myself which drug lord lived here? Since there were armed men at the gates and patrolling the high walls.

      http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/10/23/city-harvest-trial-most-costly-criminal-trial-singapore.html

      But this is not limited to Singapore only it happens all over the place, Hagee with his slush fund, Olsteen too..not to mention Creflo Dollar and his multi-million dollar Lear jet.

      Have a look at this “pastor’s” wife’s music video, personally I cannot stomach it for more than 30 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-E5SywuDWQ

      Such depravity being promoted by what is supposedly a “pastor” herself. These are the types that would bring themselves and so many gullible others into damnation.

  • “So many catholics that enjoy their protestant-provided freedoms…”

    These freedoms did not come cheap Art.

    Catholics in colonial Maryland were not allowed to practice their faith publicly. They were also not allowed to send their children to church-run schools. As Oliver Cromwell came to power in England, Catholics in the colonies were no longer allowed to vote, were barred from several professions including law, and were unable to hold office unless they swore allegiance to the Church of England.

    The Puritans (your heritage) so dominated the colony that Catholics found themselves actually outlawed, the persecution becoming so intense that they fled to Pennsylvania. Although Catholics eventually returned to Maryland in small numbers, they still, even until 1776, were not allowed to hold public office, establish schools, or conduct religious services. Land that had been owned by the Jesuits was confiscated by the government. For over a century, from 1654 to 1776, no priest dared to enter the colony unless under disguise.

    Want to talk about the Puritans? You take pride in their works? Let me know.

    “Sitting around with their full bellies …”

    And what are you doing? Tell us?

    Listen, this group here (both Protestants and Catholics) aided in rescuing thousands of Christian slaves. What are you doing? Tell us your accomplishments that the ladies here may admire your slim belly?

    “put tradition ahead of God’s Word.”

    You want to discuss the traditions of men versus the traditions of God? Or are you stating that God has no ‘tradition’? Why don’t you look up ‘tradition’ in the Bible and tell us what does it state instead of writing rhetoric?

    “Have a blessed Good Friday.”

    You too. And while you’re at it, enjoy your Bible which you imported from the East.

    • Michelle Therese

      Imported, and then desecrated!

  • Which is it easier, to trust that Jesus commissioned the apostles the same authority He had in forgiving sins or retaining sins (John 20:23) or to say what you said?

  • “definetly don’t follow Catholocism in any form!”

    O ya. And we all should then follow the interpretation of some Pam Fletcher.

    Today, instead of lifting up our crucifixes, we should be shouting Viva Pam. Viva Pam. Viva Pam.

    And Pam then would come back and say “no, I want you to follow only Jesus”.

    O ya. Pam’s interpretation of everything Jesus that is.

    Very funny.

    • Woody

      Yep, looks like 1.3 billion are lost and only Pam is saved; I wouldn’t rely on my self for anything.

  • Стефан Евгений

    Have a blessed Good Friday…… So you come here on Great and Holy Friday, just so you can shyte all over Catholics of good will toword us.
    Just because we are not in communion does not mean we can’t LOVE one another. ( I’m Russian so I share my potatoes)

    you said…”Anyway… The man is an old earth evolutionist. So he should fit in well with churches that put tradition ahead of God’s Word”
    Go look into this, (αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων) I’m not holding your hand, got a mouse so click away.

  • Now you will attract all the grasshoppers. Just give it some time. They will come.

  • “The Catholic doctrine of the to trinity is antichrist??”

    Thats what he said Anthony. And you want me to be “nice” when the scriptures said to throw them far away from the falafel stand?

    • Grandmere

      I’m afraid the only thing left is to call for an exorcist. My heart feels heavy. We get into it with a lot of people but rarely do we see one who is so bound and impervious to the truth.

  • Grandmere

    “I don’t think I have slandered anyone”. MD, you have slandered the Lord Jesus Christ, the second person of the Holy Trinity. You have placed yourself with the goats. Your immortal soul and eternal destiny hang in the balance. Please turn from this heresy and seek the truth. We all, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant beg you to reconsider. I have been pretty hard on you, but I can’t any more. I feel heartbroken when I consider your fate if you persist in unbelief.

  • Grandmere

    The crowds seem to be in the “evangelical” megachurches. Just tune into any of the Christian TV networks and see for yourself.

    • Kkdgrace

      Too true. And sad. I detest how Christianity is portrayed on television. It makes it a mockery, if nothing else. Horrible.

    • Kamau41

      Unfortunately, so very true. It’s very sad that she and millions of others like her is unable to see this very reality.

  • Let us know of your journey. I grew up as a Southern Baptist myself and now is on the way to coming into the Anglican Catholic Church.

  • Grandmere

    May God bless you on your journey.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Strange I thought the Magna Carta was signed by catholics, I thought the Bishop of Rome was elected in a free vote, I thought the Jews who left Spain was granted full citizenship in the Vatican state, I thought european law of innocent until proven guilty was based on the Rome law of Julian, who mandated that an accused person must be tried before a neutral judge with Catholic trained lawyers providing a defense and a persecution, I thought the Catholic Church provide sanctuary against secular authority when they felt rights were not being honored.

    • Michelle Therese

      Oh yes, but on Planet Protestant, history is re-written, all of this is revised and disappeared. Which is ever so convenient!

      • Tom_mcewen

        I listen to white on this conversion and said this person didn’t know church history and I slowly understand he meant history of Protestantism not of history from the apostles. Words can fool you, the words are the same but the universe is different.

        • Michelle Therese

          You suddenly enter an Alternate Universe!

  • Grandmere

    Dawn. You are following Arius. He’s one of the most prolific of all the early heretics. He denied the Trinity and led so many astray that a council had to be called. The Council of Nicea. The Council issued the Nicene Creed in response. It is accepted by Catholics, Orthodox, Anglican and mainline Protestants as absolutely authoritative. I am done with the name calling. We have given you much to think about. Perhaps you should stop arguing with us and research all of the things we have said.

    • That’s the problem. She started off sprouting about the Mark of the Beast and when confronted, she threw out comments trying to distract and detract from the original comments of her, and even when giving her superficial history of how Arianism is the root of Islam – I haven’t even addressed other heresies that found its way into Islam – she barely acknowledges and still revert back to slander mode to attack the Catholic and Orthodox Church.

      She quotes from the ready-to-“refute” booklet because she does not have the depth we possess from inheriting the apostolic teaching and Faith.

      As Cardinal Newman said, “To be deep in history is to cease being a Protestant.”

  • AnthonyM

    When you say ‘it is the harlot of revelations’, you imply Jesus is a liar, as Jesus said he would be with his Church until the end of the ages.
    You are repeating Martin Luther nonsense, who got it from the Albigensians and the Hussites heretics. The Catholic Church was commissioned by Jesus. All other Churches were started by men.
    Please do some research:
    http://shoebat.com/2013/06/25/vatican-as-the-harlot-of-babylon-debunked/

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Seems that you are like the masses of mankind that always prefers what man has built versus what God built.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    “Salvation is from the Jews”. Now whatts your come back? Jesus built His church – and you are to obey that Church. ‘

  • Julie LaBrecque

    We’ll get the popcorn popping – I need Rudy – his popcorn is the best. Let us know who has the keys? I’ll give you a hint – it’s the Prime Minister, aka the Royal Steward, of the Kigg – see the OT for confirmation. Now – if you can connect the dots – Jesus is the King – who did he give the keys to?

    • racarrera

      A birdie told me my name was chirped. How can I be of service?

  • Kamau41

    Chet-
    The Holy Scriptures totally disagrees with you. Here are Jesus’s words to St. Peter:

    “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this ROCK I will build my CHURCH, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the KEYS of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”(Matt 16:18-19)

  • FF

    I think Portugal and India have some thing in common regarding Christianity.
    Have a blessed Easter.

  • Michelle Therese

    The Protestant man says, “I can’t accept… I can’t believe that Paul would say…”

    And there you have it, the crux of Protest-ant-ism: I, I, Me, Me, …

    It is interesting how the Protestant makes his last words about attacking the Catholic Church, rather then summarizing his own theology. Oh, wait… he’s a Protest-ant. Of *course* has has to close with protesting the Church.

  • Wonderful! When you go up to the Priest when he is ready to distribute the Eucharist, do not receive it, and instead, cross your arms (placing your hands on your shoulders) and he will bless you instead.

    It will be a bit confusing and just do your best to listen and try and follow along.

  • Grandmere

    You will understand more than you think. And Easter is especially beautiful.

  • How about Chet’s church? Is there any salvation in Chet’s church?

  • “don’t forget that the Catholic church forbid the Bible to be translated into the language of the people. ”

    Really? The Catholic church translated the Bible into English pre-dating the King James Version (1611). It was translated from the Latin Vulgate, the Church’s official Scripture text, by English Catholics in exile on the continent. The NT was completed and published in 1582 when the English College (the seminary for English Catholics) was located at Rheims. The Old Testament was published in 1610 when the College was located at Douai.

    So please, stop making our job difficult by spreading falsified. I have to get up every day and debunk falsities all day long? They are the same old same old, repeated a million times over where I have to debunk the same damned thing a million times over.

    All you people know what to do is repeat booklets.

  • And I am supposed to approve your message? You come into my blog and attack me in this fashion without even attempting to disprove what I write and now I must approve your slanders and put up with it? Take a hike.

  • O ya, so if a Catholic or Orthodox church was nearby you would go there, right?

  • Woody

    Losing Jesus Body and Blood is a reason to be Catholic alone; what a Blessing He left us.
    Been a Catholic over 70 years and never met one who “worshipped Many.” Even the Catholic Catechism says “one my worship God alone. Bishop Sheen was right”The devils greatest deception is to convince peopel he does not exist.”

    • 70 years of wisdom Mr. Woody. I also love Fulton Sheen’s wisdom. The good old aged wine.

  • Don’t listen to women! Especially one named Pam Fletcher!

  • Indeed. I’ve been sent by the KGB, Mossad and the Jesuits. Make sure you warn the world.

  • Pam,

    It takes a second to plug the word “falafel” on google.

    Gets to show the level or research you do.

    • Grandmere

      She’s too lazy.

      • Her limbs and brains perhaps, but not her tongue. Its very active. Sharp like a two edged Muslim scimitar. She is always cursing primarily the Catholic Church. I wonder what she feels about the Coptic Church. Hate to ask her. She might ask us what that is since she is too lazy to look that up as well.

        • Grandmere

          Please Chef. Don’t let them ruin our Easter Special.

          • Okay. You get a wish for Easter. What is it?

          • Grandmere

            No heretics. They can listen but not argue for one whole, beautiful Easter day.

    • Pam Fletcher

      I didn’t believe that was a word! Knowing you it’s a 50/50 shot! Was that a favorite dish?

      • Well, falafel is one of my favorites Pam. Today for Easter I had lamb chops. Ever tried lamb chops Pam?

  • We will be the ones persecuting you and Pam? And the persecution is by “banning” you from commenting?

    If you two are single, you two make a perfect match. Make sure you guys invite us to your wedding.

    “that’s why they are part of the so called ‘Church Militant’. Many want to see Papal power restored, with full backing of the State, to execute so called heretics, homosexuals,”

    So the homosexuals now are the “martyrs of Jesus Christ”?

    Dang you guys are good. I mean the intellect, the charisma, the knowledge … absolutely amazing.

    Perhaps you guys can produce a dozen Albert Einsteins.

  • “This is why I encourage you to look at the Bible and see what it really says.”

    You care about what the Bible says? Show us then from the Bible where does it say this:

    “he time comes that severe persecution at the hands of Catholics and Orthodox (and probably a great many Protestants – in some type of Alliance, joined with Papacy) comes. Prophecy seems to indicate this time is soon at hand – now is the time to prepare for the hour that some on this weblog are keen to see happen -”

    You said this to your friend Pam. Yet you provided ZERO evidence for it.

    You fart crap out of your backside and call it Bible when all you say is bile.

    Hypocrite.

  • So I get it Chet. There is no salvation by calling 911 when your house sets on fire. Just use the garden hose.

    Got it.

    Happy Easter to you too. Enjoyed reading your answer. I should never use 911 from now on. Will rely on my garden hose instead. Thanks for the advise.

  • What is incredible is this – YOU, yes you Pam Fletcher, are completely ignoring and overriding Christ’s own words. Did you refute what I said when I said Christ left us a Church? No. Instead as it is your tendency, you response with hysteria and attacking us Catholic and Orthodox because we hold fast to what the apostles taught since Christ ascension to the Father.

  • Good bye.

  • So…you are saying Martin Luther corrected Christianity yet you failed to realize that it was Martin Luther who inspired the greatest holocaust against the Jews in his book, “The Jews and Their Lies.”

    You asked, “Did Jesus ‘fail Israel’, when they did not align themselves with the
    word/commands of God, and found themselves destitute and under the
    leadership of pagan leaders?”

    What question is this?! When Solomon’s heart was turned away from God, did all of Israel suffer for it? Yes. Did God destroyed the righteous? No. So, what happened when Jesus left and the Jews heard all the glossa they heard on the Day of the Pentecost? They listened to Peter when he delivered his first sermon. 3,000 of them on that day repented and were baptized. The rest who refused to repent were left to suffer horribly during the Jewish War of 67 to 70 AD. The Jewish were scattered when the temple were destroyed.

    Today, the Church is still actively evangelizing the Jews while acknowledging that God will save the Jews at Christ’s coming.

    You asked, “Did Jesus ‘fail’ when he neglected to appoint Godly replacements for every papal successor over the last 2000 years?”

    There has been some popes who were bad and were declared heretical by councils after them. There were godly popes, more than bad ones. Some pope made the mistakes of going against orthodoxy and saved themselves by reversing their position. Your problem is you are looking to find fault but not looking at the fault in yourself.

    You asked, “Has Jesus ‘failed as the good shepherd’, by neglecting to keep out
    thousands of homo/pedofile priests from ‘fleecing the RCC flock’??”

    I can easily flip that question around and ask, “Has Jesus failed as the Good Shepherd by preventing pastors of megachurch from committing adultery with men, with prostitutes, and fleecing their own flocks?” You see, it wasn’t the Catholic priests who almost made me become an atheist. It was all the scandals of the evangelistic church that did me in.

    You write, “Thank the Lord for the remnant during the Church ages that ‘refused to bow their knee to Baal’! ML simply brought the remnant out of hiding, by the grace of God.”

    All I can do is laugh. See what I wrote about Martin Luther and how he inspired the holocaust against the Jews. As for bowing the knee to Baal, I regret to inform you this, many are bowing their knees to Baal – the god of money, the god of multiculturalism, the god of diversity, the god of sodomy, the god of inter-religion dialogue, and so on and on.

  • “The title of “Pope” wasn’t applied to the early church fathers until the time of Constantine.”

    FALSE. Stop spreading false information.

    The word pope derives from Greek πάππας meaning “father”. In the early centuries of Christianity, this title was applied, especially in the east, to all bishops and other senior clergy. The earliest record of the use of this title was in regard to the by then deceased Patriarch of Alexandria, Pope Heraclas of Alexandria (232–248).

    Stop listening to Michael Rood and all the other idiots.

    St. Ignatius of Antioch (d 107) and St. Irenaeus who recorded the linear succession of Bishops of Rome (the popes) up until their own times. James the Just, known as “the brother of the Lord”, served as head of the Jerusalem church, which is still honored as the “Mother Church” in Orthodox tradition. Alexandria had been a center of Jewish learning and became a center of Christian learning. Rome had a large congregation early in the apostolic period whom Paul the Apostle addressed in his Epistle to the Romans, and according to tradition Paul was martyred there.

    If you are not learned, try reading instead of talking since if speech was made of silver, silence is made of gold.

    • Grandmere

      Trying to get through to these people is like trying to take down the Hoover dam with a rock hammer.

  • “My Catholic friends don’t even read the Bible. ”

    Great, so long they FOLLOW it. God wants His word in our hearts.

    Heathens, skeptics and down right cults and liberals read the Bible to destroy what it says.

    It is not about “reading the Bible” Jan, its about following it.

    You have NO sacraments. You yourself do not follow the Bible, but you read it, like a parrot.

    What is the use of parroting the Bible when ye do not do what it says?

    And I guess I will get an ear full how I “do not know you” and such talk.

    Happy Easter.

    • Woody

      Correct. There was no bible for 3 or 4 centuries, those centuries when the Church grew in volumes. It was mostly word of mouth as Jesus had commanded the Apostles to “go forth and teach all nations (verbally) The Bible was not universally distributed until many centuries later with the invention of the prining press by Gutenberg.

  • “(T)hey have not the succession of Peter, who hold not the chair of Peter, which they rend by wicked schism; and this, too, they do, wickedly denying that sins can be forgiven even in the Church, whereas it was said to Peter: “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven.” And the vessel of divine election himself said: “If ye have forgiven anything to any one, I forgive also, for what I have forgiven I have done it for your sakes in the person of Christ.”

    —St. Ambrose of Milan. On Penance, Book One, Ch. VII, v. 33, c. A.D. 390

    Do you see “in the person of Christ”? Do you see how it was explained in the early church?

    “There is nothing more serious than the sacrilege of schism because there is no just cause for severing the unity of the Church.”

    —St. Augustine

    Treatise On Baptism Against the Donatists, Bk 5, Ch. 1, A.D. 400

    Finally, this last quote from the early second century beckons to those outside the Church to come home:

    “For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of repentance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ. Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If any one walks according to a strange opinion, he agrees not with the passion of Christ.”

    —St. Ignatius of Antioch. Letter to the Philadelphians, 3.2, ca. A.D. 110

    The early church already interpreted Scripture. And now you want us to believe they were all wrong and Luther was right.

    Have at it, go google Luther and Shoebat and refute away. You follow Luther.

    You got your last word by copying and pasting Protestant interpretation. I leave it at that. While my explanation was the practice for two millennia which I can prove which you cannot prove anything from history, that yours is exclusively after Luther which mean and according to your interpretations that Christ had a faulty church until Luther showed up. And then you say that you follow only the Bible when you strictly quote men. I follow the Bible and the traditional interpretation which Paul told us to heed that tradition. 2Thessalonians 3:6 “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.”

  • Tom_mcewen

    Boys and girls can you say Missal, we are not verse quoting monkeys.
    You have never been to mass or know nothing about the ancient Catholic liturgy or the liturgical calendar do you. You are just been talking to another protestant on the tin-can telephone.
    We read the bible completely every three years, you read Paul, Paul Paul. There is more in the bible.
    We are students of the bible our whole lives, not parrots making the sounds of words that they do not understand, not the culture not the historical basis, nor the context.
    We don’t speak like you, we don’t say Acts 9-31 ” ekklesia Kathilikos”. Because it is one story, the gospel is mirrored in the old and the old is mirrored in the new.
    A verse is not the master, but the Catholic Church is the master of the verse, the bible, the deposit of faith and the authorized servant of God.
    The curse for ignorance is education and we got education in up to the gates of heaven, we are not the new kids on the block but the original St Ignatius Christians, we are not John 6-66 Christians like you.

  • Grandmere

    What do I have to do with it? I am the cashier. Movement? Look, this is a falafel stand in Tombstone, AZ. It is crowded. It is hot. People are sweaty, hungry and grumpy and most of them are packing heat. So just swipe your debit card and back out the way you came in.

  • “When I get off this board, I feel like I’ve had a full workday!!”

    We noticed. You are used to booklets which you keep repeating while we all yawn.

    But stick around, its rather amusing. Its like watching the little fish in the tank and you reading Raph’s comments is like watching sea monsters.

  • Ahhh we didn’t know that. But that is the shortest booklet you send our way. Its sort of like Inn and Our Burger with the John 3:16 typed on the wrapper and under fries little tray. Handy I’d say for a Fletcher. This way you can hand it all out. Sort of like the Chick publications. Have you read the Chick publications by any chance Fletcher? I would think you would. You sound like the type. How about “Milk Fed Booklets For New Babies In Christ”?

  • Wow well thats quite interesting. We don’t know.

    By any chance perhaps you can tell us, when Jesus spoke to Saul of tarsus on the road to Damascus, how come he never told Paul that pastors should dress up in Hawaiian shirts and jeans? Why did he forget to tell them to have youth pastors and Sunday schools? Do you know by any chance? I knew you would since you really know the word. Right?

  • Mr Dawn failed to address an of my Jesus style questions – very telling.

  • Woody

    “That sll may be ONE.” Jesus

  • ” I bind Satan in the name of Jesus from blinding all peoples who write on the Walid Shoebat board”

    While your at it, can you also bind Satan’s grasshoppers?

  • Idiot.

    “As we have received from them…”

    Who is them? Hmm? The apostles and their successors.

  • “So how does the Holy Spirit remind us of all Jesus has said if we never even read it in scripture!”

    Pam, can you tell us how you follow the Scripture? I mean things that are besides your ‘preaching’?

  • “Walid, we don’t wanna fight to fight, but don’t get bent out of shape”

    Bent out of shape? God forbid. I was only trying to find you a husband. Is that a sin?

    Sort of like matchmaker:

    “Rest assure that God is no respector of persons, and He’s not a man that he should lie!”

    Indeed. But does that mean Fletcher does not lie?

    “Gods Word won’t return to him void!”

    Indeed, but Fletcher’s word do return to Fletcher, void.

    This is why you should only type the biblical text without any of your words. Can you do that next time?

    Can Fletcher only type the WORD OF GOD without ANY of her WORDS?

    Can you do that Fletcher?

  • Grandmere

    You have absolutely no power to bind or loose anything except your own tongue.

    • Is Pam in trouble? She tried to eat that cheese on that trap. Ouch.

  • Raph Sebastian

    No it does not. It means to OBEY. Now that I have answered your questions will you answer the questions put to you? Or will you continue to slander at each and every given momeny?

  • God has preserved the Catholic and Orthodox Church throughout the ages. The fact both bodies are still here, still growing, still passionately contending for the Faith that were delivered to us is evidence that God promise still stand.

    That, however, does not absolve or relieve the calling of evangelizing the Gospels to all mankind, Jews included.

    Thanks for making me more Catholic and Orthodox. I love the Scriptures and the Sacred Tradition that comes with it.

  • Raph Sebastian

    You do not believe because you have no authority. Not everything is in the Bible. St. Paul said to keep to the traditions that they have taught either by writ or by mouth. Show me where in the bible does it say that the bible contains all that is needed for the Christian faith, verbatim? You can’t it doesn’t exist. Sola scriptura is a fraud created by men.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Jack Chick is dead, and his lies are still alive apparently, your comic book “christianity” is pure horse manure.

    • Woody

      Yes, he went the way of Simon Magus.

  • Raph Sebastian

    So I guess that makes you able to go around committing sins without worrying about damnation.

  • Woody

    You are still stuck on “water Baptism;” There are other kinds of baptism, i.e., “Baptism of desire,” (like the good Thief on the Cross, or Longiniues); and Baptism of Blood, (like the many who gave up their lives rather than deny Christ)

    • The rich Catholic theology. Love it. Love it. Love it.

  • Woody

    We’ve grown as usual….

  • “the CHURCH was commissioned by Jesus Who commissioned the Church!

  • “Get back Satan!”

    You just declared yourself as Jesus and Raph as Peter.

    Way to go.

  • Search “Jesus style questions” and “Shoebat” on Google and try refuting thousands of Jesus style questions. You missed these in our short dialogue. And as you say “very telling”.

  • It means “obey” as Raph indicated. If you examine James:

    “But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”

    St. James said: “I will shew thee, by works, my faith.” (James 2:18) The beliefs that we have within our souls, our internal convictions, manifest themselves through actions.

    Abraham OBEYED God.

    Glad that you asked questions. See us Catholics are not as bad as you think Pam. We are a bit scruffy and feisty.

    Yet at times we squabble over one verse that man is “not saved by faith alone” and if we search the scriptures all this is saying is that “faith” is not simply “belief”, that faith is defined by “belief” accompanied by “action” as if one loves a woman, he must also ask for her hand in marriage. So when the Bible says that “faith without works is dead” is what it says, so faith without works is not true faith, and if James says “Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works” what it says is what it means; there is no need for a slick interpreter since Hebrews defined faith as such that Abraham did not isolate faith that is void of works. And if it says that “Abraham our father was justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar” then he was justified by works since his “faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works” (James 2:22) and when Noah had faith he spent over a century doing works building an ark. Faith therefore cannot be isolated and is defined by action and while the action itself ‘alone’ does not save, but that it emanated from that faith which does.

    Why can’t things be that simple? Indeed they are.

  • No need to apologize Jan. On this comment section, when we sound rough, take it with a smile. Over here, we all brawl but still remain friends.

    Relax. Happy Easter 🙂

  • Raph Sebastian

    Yep satan has claimed Chick for doing what he himself couldn’t, i.e. divide the Church and damn souls by following his heresies and blasphemies.

  • I completely understand your frustration in not finding anything ‘coherent’ . To you a Muslim denying the Trinity is ‘coherent’. Arius is ‘coherent’.

    Here I will simplify a Jesus style question to you:

    A) Do you agree with Arius regarding the Trinity?
    B) Do you agree with Muhammad regarding the Trinity?

    Now that everyone can see how ‘coherent’ is a Jesus style question, they can also see that you are nothing more than a slippery fish who cannot and will not answer basic questions.

  • Your welcome Jan, Happy Easter to you too.

  • But which of the two had the correct interpretation of the Bible on the issue, Arius or Athanasius?

    What a moron. Do me a favor. Go kiss Muhammad’s camel. I have no time.

  • Michelle Therese

    I come to the comments of Shoebat articles with a bucket of buttered and salted popcorn so I can enjoy the show of Mr. Walid and a handful of well-spoken others as they give the smackdown to haters. I am never left disappointed!!

  • Woody

    Gee, before you said “the gate is narrow…” I guess only you.

  • Woody

    An assumption though; those who grew up as late as the fifties undestood Latin and many hight schools taught it; I took it.

  • filomena seiffert

    I read the bible, therefore I know who is following Jesus, who carry the cross like He commanded. Just remember, without the cross you are not worthy of Jesus. Going on the merry road do not lead to Paradise. The Catholic has tradition and the word written by the disciples, while Protestants have a modified version. Alleluia. Glorious Easter for the Jesus followers. Amem

  • filomena seiffert

    Only the ones who take up their cross and follow Jesus

  • filomena seiffert

    It is a lie, soon the press was at work bibles were printed on the people’s vernacular. You also ignore if were not for the sacrifice of those faithful monks you would not have bibles at. They lost countless hours of sleep to translate those documents and you and others are so ungreatful as to defame Jesus followers. I can accept Protestants well as long as they keep their ignorance and lies for themselves.

  • Grandmere

    What they hear about is “How to Live Your Best Life Now”, How to sow a $1000 seed to insure prosperity, And “How to Cluck Like a Chicken and Writhe like a Snake”.

  • “at least one person was burned at the stake for trsnslating the Bible!”

    You see Jan, that statement you made, so many make it because they heard it from others and then they formulate such an opinion which is contrary to history. Here, learn the true history on who Wycliffe was:

    http://shoebat.com/2014/11/11/john-wycliffe-evil-heretic-john-wycliffe-exposed-2/

    “My point is only made to encourage studying the Bible. ”

    What counts is doing what the Bible says and not just studying it.

    “Only the blood of Jesus saved us.”

    Indeed. We all agree on this one. But what if someone who says “only the blood of Jesus saves us” and then they do not want to obey the Bible, they do not want to go to church, they divorce their spouse and they continue in rebellion. Would they still be “saved by the blood of Jesus”?

    This type of simplistic thinking is a problem.

  • So that Catholic era is dar? Please explain from solid history.

  • What does Temple mean from a NT perspective? Can you tell us from scripture?

  • Raph Sebastian

    Yes so you argue that you can sin and yet be saved. This is the heresy of “once saved always saved”.

  • filomena seiffert

    I tell you, unless you stop saying falsehood and hatred for the Catholic Church,founded by Jesus Himself, you shall not see the face of the Risen Lord, no mater how many times you say you are saved, it is not your place to decide but God Himself. Hope to find you in Paradise, you will see how much exist between the animals and myself.

  • filomena seiffert

    In the 15th century most people in the whole world new to read and write, the reality is that education was spread to the common people only on the 19th century. Even today,there is many countries on earth where most people don’t go to school. Do you think the people Luther deceive knew to read? If the Church were to forbid common people to read the bible it would be OK, it would safeguard the bible from many erroneous interpretation like protesters do. I am not angry with all protestants, only the ones that attack my beloved church. I get along well with the ones that shut up on slanders. I think we should not condemn no one as it is not our duty, only God knows the hart and the reason one Christian, protestant, muslim, budist or others, we all are His children. I think this way about ecumenism, we should respect each other without the need to adopt parts of the liturgy of others. The Roman and the orthodox have the better way of worshiping God, reverence, silence in the church and specially the adoration and reception of the Body of Jesus.

  • Who do you defend then?

    Let me guess “the Bible”?

  • “Grandmere there’s false corrupt teaching in all Christian denominations! ”

    Ya, but your denomination also has corruption. Last I checked the Pam Fletcher Denomination I found out several errors and corrupt interpretations of the Bible.

    Now what do we do? Start a Fletcher #2 denomination?

    You would be the first to object if the Republican Party split. But when the Church splits to thousands of splits you have no problem with that and then you would say that all these ‘splits’ constitutes one church.

    When will you people stop doing the splits?

  • “If my words are His words then your not listening to Pam are you! ”

    If your words were His words, then you would only type scripture.

    This would mean that your statement “If my words are His words then your not listening to Pam are you!” is not His words.

    You will NEVER be able to ONLY type Christ’s words. In order to teach what you personally believe, you MUST add to His words your own words.

    Try it. Try to share Jesus’ words without yours.

    You can’t and you won’t.

    Therefore, the issue is not scripture as you state. The issue is a certain interpretation of scripture.

    Here, let me make it simple. Name me a single saint from the first 15 centuries who ever interprets scripture the way you do Fletcher?

    You can’t. And you won’t. 100% guaranteed.

  • Isaac

    Thanks Walid, I looked at the KJV and it uses the singular “thee” for you so yes, it seems like only Peter being addressed. I always assumed “you” referred to all the apostles. I will have to challenge a theologian I know who isn’t a modern politically correct leftist liberal (and so on) – I only know one but I seldom talk to him. I’m in a foreign land at the moment so it’s not easy to find someone and I don’t get a lot of time. The internet is like molasses going uphill.

  • Pam,

    If you truly held the teachings of the apostles you would be warned to come out of the false thousands of denominations and you would come out of them You and many others however defend it! Jesus is the written word! You in fact are following the seductive untruths of a false religion! This isn’t loving Jesus, who says we are doers of the Word not hearers only! James1:22!

    See? I copied and pasted what you wrote and it really matched you. Perfectly.

    • Woody

      Google “Michael Cumbie” “Conversion story” utube; amazing as this guy has been in all denominations — he is so funny, now he even spits all over his hands when he mentions “Purgatory.”

      • I did Woody. You provide a great nugget:

        Loved it.

        Too bad all I can offer back is falafel.

      • I like him.

        I am also beginning to like Woody 🙂

  • Raph Sebastian

    And yet St Paul teaches to keep the traditions and all that the Apostles have taught be it written or oral.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Process in relationship? Where are these words in the bible?

  • Raph Sebastian

    Sorry but the there is only partial truth in what you have said.
    If you are going to quote Galatians then you must have also read that the Church is a Mother.

    What is foolish is the fact that so many have removed themselves from the blasphemy and heresy of Protestantism yet you have the gall to tell me that what is the Ancient Faith of ALL CHRISTIANS before Protestantism came about is wrong.

    Could it be that you have been beguiled by “faith alone” and “once saved always saved” and the cult of the 5 solas that you will never be able to see the light?

    Come out of Protestantism, come to the truth of orthodoxy, the truth of how all Christians worshiped a millennia and a half before Luther and his ilk came around. That is only found in the Church the LORD founded. His ONE AND ONLY – HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.

  • You are just squawking like those birds that buzz around a carcass.

    I defend the Faith that were delivered to the saints.

    Now I will kindly tell you to “Bugger off” but knowing you, you will just be around like flies on a carcass.

  • You attack the tradition but not the writing of the saint.

    That is quite telling.

  • “I know Islam very well – have studied the Hadith, Qur’an and Siri”

    No you don’t because if you do, you would have not spelled it “Siri” its Al-Sira al-Nabayiieh.

    And if you knew Christianity you would have jotted down how the first Christians interpreted these verses.

    If I interviewed you live, I can easily reveal how much you lack in everything you claim.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Firstly you havr been recuted by Walid for your slander. He gave you a chunk of his time in foing so wiyh rrgard your lies about the pope evem when the srticle made no mention of him but you had to includr your slsnder. I have yet to see you refute Walid

    No competition with Protrstants, just truth vs falsity. The truth of the Catholic Church and what she teahes versus the man made religion of Protrstantism and all that comes with it. Be they Baptist to Evangelical to Westboro to Methodist to Presbytarian to JWs to Mormons to islam. All are falsities anf heresies bordering on or are outright blasphemy.

  • Bugger off.

  • I see you are having a coffee with Raph. Thats good.

    • Grandmere

      Her coffee must be laced with LSD.

  • Grandmere

    But that is what you believe. How can you say you don’t know what “sola scriptura” is?

  • No Pam. Its that the enemy (the devil) wants you to think that the church was lost for two millennia and only when Luther came along, then it was found.

    I have asked you to show me a single Christian who interprets scripture the way you do before Luther and Wycliffe and such.

    Have you produce a single name?

    No.

    Why? Why have you not been able to carry out such a simple task?

  • Woody

    So I guess st Joseph, Mary’s spouse NEVER DIED since there is no scripture recording it; and I guess Veronica’s veil did not happen either since it hangs today in a Church; you are highy confused.

  • “Catechism, sort of like the Book of Mormon!”

    When someone writes something like this it reveals that not only they are drinking powdered milk, but they are snorting another powder of a different kind.

  • No problem Jan, thats what we do at the Falafel King 🙂

  • Grandmere

    How many times must we tell you. Catholics do not worship Mary.

  • Last I checked, you two were having coffee and I placed some falafel chips at your table and now to only come back to find you arguing.

    He was simply saying that someone slipped horse manure in your coffee Pam. He does not want you to be confused between the flavor of Turkish Coffee and Cow Dung thats all.

  • Raph Sebastian

    No just telling the truth, Chick is indeed dead, and for his blasphemies he will have to answer for them, just like you will have to.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Oh by the way, read the title of the article once again.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Yeah in you selfish world everyone must live in your time zone, such depth of idiocy is astounding!

  • Raph Sebastian

    It’s the other way round. It’s the Catholics that provided your freedom to say heretical things post 1517. Because for centuries before that, the Catholics were battling and defeating the Turks and the arabian muslims, while the Protestants sided with them and with evil. Now with your full bellies, you slander the Catholics and the Catholic Church.

  • Raph Sebastian

    If your bible is missing 1 & 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, Daniel and Esther…then you are reading a bible that is codified by the Jews after they rejected and denied the LORD.

    But if your bible consists of all these books, you are reading the what Christ Himself read and taught from. The was later codified by the Catholic Church that He founded, the same Church that codified the canons of the New Testament.

    Sola anything is a heresy.

  • Raph Sebastian

    And Gutenberg was…wait for it… Catholic! His first job for printing was commissioned by the Catholic Church to….wait for it…PRINT THE BIBLE!

    You slanderers never bother to even read history, you vomit the swill you have swallowed that your “pastors” have fed you.

    • Grandmere

      Ooooooh. SNAAAAP!!! There was a reason you were given the flame thrower, bro.

      • The flame thrower shall not depart from the falafel stand until the one who deserves it comes.

      • Raph Sebastian

        History and Church history is like Protestant kryptonite. Their super slanderous ignorance and arrogance becomes drivel in the face of it.

        History, not revisionist history, is a violent mistress for Protestants, pagans, heretics and anti-Catholics. They wouldn’t dare learnt and honestly accept its veracity. After all they think that Christianity only began 500 years ago.

  • Never knew that ‘reading comprehension’ means only the books you approve. If you can’t answer the challenge then send an insult. The Catholics translated the Bible into English before your King James.

    The original Catholic Bible in English, pre-dating the King James Version (1611). It was translated from the Latin Vulgate, the Church’s official Scripture text, by English Catholics in exile on the continent. The NT was completed and published in 1582 when the English College (the seminary for English Catholics) was located at Rheims. The Old Testament was published in 1610 when the College was located at Douai.

    Psst reading comprehension not your strong suit

  • “The Apocrypha are old folk tales, considered to be legends. They became counterfeit holy books.”

    Idiot.

    “For if the just one be the Son of God, he will defend him and deliver him from the hand of his foes. With revilement and torture let us put him to the test that we may have proof of his gentleness and try his patience. Let us condemn him to a shameful death; for according to his own words, God will take care of him.”— Wisdom 2:12-20

    Wisdom was speaking of the “Son of God” being delivered into the hands of his enemies to be killed. I know of the prophecy of Isaiah 53 which speaks of the suffering servant, but this prophecy written way prior to the New Testament has it all in one verse, that besides a reference to a suffering servant, whom we debate constantly about with the Jew claiming that the suffering servant was Israel, yet here we have a single verse in which it clearly states that it was “the Son of God” who will be tortured and killed.

    Is this ‘apocrypha’ you idiot?

  • Woody

    still calling Jesus a liar; by the way Jesus is God and does not make mistakes!

  • Raph Sebastian

    So says you. But isn’t it strange that Jesus used the Septuagint to teach and it contained the books you call apocrypha. Apparently those books are good enough for Jesus but not you.

  • Raph Sebastian

    History and truth obviously isn’t yours.

  • Raph Sebastian

    hmmm David Daniels says such and such…the Apostles said the opposite. Let me see now…should I believe David Daniels or those who walked, ate, slept next to and live alongside Jesus? Yep I choose the Apostles and their successors. That is the main difference between first century inerrant teachings and your 500 year old new fangled Protestant religion.

  • Raph Sebastian

    IF indeed you believe in sola scriptura… and sola fide…. show me where in the bible does it say “faith alone” these two words appearing in that sequence.. Do this for me, I beg of you.

  • Raph Sebastian

    You complete cultist and your cultish thinking and false theology…you make the blasphemous assumption of ” If it were the case that God used Islam to destroy the Catholic Church, it would in no way mean that a non-Catholic is ‘for Islam’.”.

    You make God out to be a liar…because Jesus Christ the third person of the Holy Trinity said that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against His church (Mt 16:18). But you cultists and your false beliefs would dare to presume to know what God would do or wouldn’t.

    You Luther worshippers…are really good in quoting the diabolical when it inspired Luther to say all that he has said which you now paraphrase in your assumption above…Luther also stated that God would use evil for His wrath. You blasphemous cretins!

    Continue with this and you purchase your own damnation.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Yep nowhere in what you qoute you find faith alone

    It is by grace through faith. Where is the faith alone part?

    You know what I am wtong, the words faith alone do exist in the bible see James 2:24 As you can see, a man is justified by his works AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

    • Woody

      Yes, same with Purgatory which they deny also; Luther held up the Bible and said, “The bible is inerrant.” Then he proceeded to tear out 7 books and throw them away (one with a “clear reference” to Purgatory. Whatever happened with “inerrant.”

      • Raph Sebastian

        We all know Luther was one special nutjob. How the heck he entered into the Augustinian Order is beyond me but I am glad he showed his true colors in the end.

  • George,

    Just plug “Luther” and “Shoebat” on Google. There are many of these articles to read from.

  • Raph Sebastian

    Silly..so in other words “faith alone” doesn’t exist but needs to be constructed through misintrrpretation and scripture twisting and out of context cheery picking. There is a word to descibe that process — sophistry.

    It just proves one thing definitively that “sola scriptura” is not scriptural. So much for being ‘bible only” when the bible doesn’t even teach ‘bible only” or ” faith alone”.

  • Grandmere

    That’s the problem right in front of you. “Because it sounds good.”