China Declares War On Islam: Prayer In Mosques Is Outlawed And All Muslim Shopkeepers Must Sell Alcohol Or Face Prosecution

By Walid and Theodore Shoebat

Before a Muslim community gets into Jihad mode, the first thing they do is call on all Muslims to repent from alcohol, pork and tobacco. It is this spark which begins the process rolling, as small groups of Muslims begin to push that agenda on Muslim communities by using peer-pressure. When this happens, it is a sign that trouble is ahead. Pretty soon they begin to demand a change in laws in order to force the host to acquiesce to their demands.

This problem exists in any society where Islam is allowed. So when giving Muslims “freedom of religion,” the ball gets rolling and soon Islam’s ethics begins to conflict with the host nation.

What the west needs to learn, and they will, slowly, is that Islam is the antithesis to western ethics: the more you have repentant Muslims, the more they are prone to violence while in the Judeo-Christian ethics, it is usually that the repentant gives peace and also finds peace. The reason for such a reverse between the two ethics is simple to understand. Firstly, Islam focuses on the outward forms of holiness: Hijabs, beards, no drinking, no pork and no smoking. Secondly, Islam’s concept of ‘peace’ has nothing to do with western understanding of the term. Peace in Islam is the Muslim definition for ‘justice’ and is foreign in all aspects,  be it the concept of peace, the definition of peace and the practice of peace. In Islam, peace can only exist when Sharia reigns supreme.

So in order to fight the spread of Islam, the best approach is almost like the war on drugs where a society brings down the enabler, that is the ‘drug pusher’ (Imams, mosques) and also the substance (Quran and Muslim materials).

So in China, unlike the west, they get it. The Chinese authorities launched a series of “strike hard” campaigns to weaken the hold of the drug of Islam in China’s western region. So they have ordered Muslim shopkeepers and restaurant owners in its troubled Xinjiang region to sell alcohol and cigarettes, and even promote them in “eye-catching displays,” as Radio Free Asia (RFA) reported. Alcohol and tobacco, while it is a problem, to the Chinese is the lesser of the two evils. So now establishments that failed to comply were swiftly dealt with and were threatened with closure and their owners with prosecution.

This picture taken on June 30, 2014 shows Chinese Muslims reading the Koran at a mosque in Tancheng, in eastern China's Shandong province, at the beginning of the holy month of Ramadan.  Across the Muslim world, the faithful fast from dawn to dusk, and abstain from eating, drinking, smoking and having sex during that time as they strive to be more pious and charitable.      CHINA OUT     AFP PHOTO

This picture taken on June 30, 2014 shows Chinese Muslims reading the Koran at a mosque in Tancheng, in eastern China’s Shandong province, at the beginning of the holy month of Ramadan. Across the Muslim world, the faithful fast from dawn to dusk, and abstain from eating, drinking, smoking and having sex during that time as they strive to be more pious and charitable. CHINA OUT AFP PHOTO

Government employees and children are also barred from attending mosques, lest they consume the drug and are even prohibited from observing the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan. And in many places, women have been barred from wearing Hijabs and the men are discouraged from growing long beards.

China understands that spreading Islam starts by peer pressure and public scorn towards anyone who smokes or drinks alcohol. For example, in the village of Aktash in southern Xinjiang, Communist Party official Adil Sulayman, said  that many local shopkeepers had stopped selling alcohol and cigarettes from 2012 “because they fear public scorn,” while many locals had decided to abstain from drinking and smoking.

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So while some might think that China is imposing on freedoms, it becomes a tough balance, westerners  need to ask themselves as to why they impose on Christians to bake cakes for gays with an agenda. So while we complain about China, where are the massive complaints about forcing Christian shops to acquiesce to the LGBT?

In reality, it is the Islamists who are imposing their Sharia driven agenda on the public and the Chinese government is thwarting their attempts. For example, in one unrelated incident in neighboring Qinghai province on Friday, an angry crowd of Muslims smashed windows of a supposedly halal store in Xining city, after pork sausages and ham were found in a delivery van, according to the local government and photographs on social media.

Sulayman said authorities in Xinjiang viewed ethnic Muslim Uighurs/Uyghurs who did not smoke as adhering to “a form of religious extremism” and this is true to a certain extent. They issued the order to counter growing religious sentiment that was “affecting stability,” he said.

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The notice ordered all restaurants and supermarkets in Aktash to sell five different brands of alcohol and cigarettes and display them prominently. “Anybody who neglects this notice and fails to act will see their shops sealed off, their businesses suspended, and legal action pursued against them,” the notice said.

According to Radio Free Asia, Hotan prefecture, where Aktash is located, had become “a hotbed of violent stabbing and shooting incidents between ethnic Uighurs and Chinese security forces.”

As Shoebat.com has reported, the Uyghurs are largely a Turkish speaking minority that is revered by the Erdogan regime in Turkey. In 2012, Erdogan and then Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu paid a visit to Xinjiang, a place the Turks do not consider as part of China, but consider it to be East Turkistan. Last year, the Muslim terrorists in China detonated a suicide car bomb in the middle of a crowd in Xinjiang killing 31 civilians and in 2013, a confrontation involving axes left 21 people dead in China’s troubled far-west region of Xinjiang which was the deadliest violence in the region since July 2009, when Xinjiang’s capital, Urumqi, was rocked by clashes between majority Han Chinese and minority Uighurs that killed nearly 200 people.

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The Muslims in China prove one thing, that certain situations require and demand taking certain measures. Measures that the U.S. would not consider, until of course, Muslim violence escalates.

There is no doubt that the west will eventually take drastic measures as we see in China. It was Benjamin Franklin who once said: “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” yet Obama wants us to believe that a pound of cure is worth the ounce of Muslim contribution to western society.

SOURCES

Washington Post

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  • Julie LaBrecque

    As the good Book states, it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of him.

    • I have seen people who look like drunks turn out to be holy people. One could say this about the beloved Elder Dobri from Bulgaria, who looks like a bum, but who is beloved by pretty much everyone in the country for his Christlike demeanor and humility. Contrast that with the phony piety of the ISIS/ISIL/IS crowd, or the elite in the Gulf States (or even the lardy hicks on TBN who talk about being holy while living obscene lifestyles).

      • Well put Rudy, a ‘bum looking’ is not always a bum.

        • One of the reasons I stuck with Christianity is because you find surprises in people. You think they may be low, monstrous, or whatever, and then you find out a bit later that the person was as kind as could be, and simply didn’t feel the need to brag about it. It’s simply about decency when it comes to dealing with others. Putting on a show says much about the person, very little of it good.

          • Sister E

            That is so very true!

          • andrea

            Rudy Carreras, I know that’s right about outward appearance. I have unruly hair but I do love Jesus and thank him for dying for me. Sometimes I think I’m just going to wear a wig.

          • Love makes a person beautiful in every way.

          • Steve Smith

            My Baba and mother always wore a scarf. I still find that attractive andrea.

          • Steve Smith

            a baba, once said to me about a ”konvert” he looks like Orthodox but is he Christian? remember in Russian .”KONVERT” can be a envelope.

          • So true! Baba wisdom is fine wisdom!

          • knight

            Just think if we did not have Christianity we would have no laws in the West for one to live freely.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            OR if the Turks weren’t stopped at Vienna or Martel didn’t stop them at France or “Andalusia” wasn’t re-conquered… the “New World” arguably would be Muslim (Americas and Australia)… if we consider the Muslims capable of naval expedition… Erdogan apparently thinks so with those mythical Cuban mosques at the time of Columbus or thereabouts… deluded taqiyyah worker of the Anti-Christ

          • knight

            The Muslims swept across the Mediterranean and controlling it that we had the Barbary pirates that led to the Battle of Derne

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            yes thats right too

          • The one thing people forget about the region the Barbary Pirates controlled is that it was once the home of so many incredible Christian scholars and philosophers, including St Augustine, who himself was partially of Berber heritage. The area should be reclaimed.

          • knight

            No I never forgot, always there including the destruction.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            if you’re implying there were capable of naval expedition, I meant on a global scale not just the Med..

          • knight

            They had East to West, most of Asia they had already done, and the West is it’s prized goal.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            I think I wanted to say something like that, phrased it awkwardly, yes I agree – sadly the West is being conquered through immigration and reproduction Jihad

          • VikingCelt

            I know, right? That he actually believes that just goes to show how far pride will take a man into idiocy.

          • That exists outside of the Euro-American culture. From Latin America to parts of well-governed Africa, Greco-Roman/Christian traditions are what made our civilization great.

          • Kamau41

            So right on Rudy.

          • Cheers, Kamau!

          • richinnameonly

            If you said, “don’t judge a book by it’s cover”, the saying could become famous some day!

        • Steve Smith

          Here is Elder Dobri, Walid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d2VoN3oiZ8 most people kick the old man out of the way. Christians can’t even give sandwiches to homeless in the US.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Well I’m not much into dressing up… which is why I never want to put my law degree into practice as I was sick of ‘dressing up’ in suit for it… academia let;s you DRESS like a bum and the arts/humanities seem to make a sport of it to see who can out-do each other in looking like “crap”… especially the dykes

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            and I remember in High School, a History teacher used to WEAR SANDALS….. she was into Indigenous and Native Rights.. I’m surprised she didn’t walk barefoot or wore clothing but I guess she would’ve done those things if there were no indecent exposure laws and minimum decency requirements for attire/footwear

          • 1Bobby8

            Wow! So much wisdom, he knows that TV and newspapers are of the devil…A living saint indeed.

          • Steve Smith

            1bobby8 many Orthodox Saints said similar things, even be fore TV was invented

          • 1Bobby8

            I believe that.

          • Dobri had me from hello. “The devil made the TV and the newspapers, it all lie and deception,” further showed his genius. Here is the face of the man James told us to be mindful of. These are the faces society knows nothing about, so I thank you Steve that you helped us see the face of a saint. How much longer can one look on Hollywood or the mainstream media?

          • He is truly a man of God. I’ve never seen a person so humble and giving. Though deaf and in poor health, he has done everything he could, even during the worst of Communism (and it was particularly vicious in Bulgaria), to be a voice for Jesus. He doesn’t grub money for TV stations, or to buy an air-conditioned dog house for his wife with pink hair and gaudy diamonds. His life is as simple as it gets. He will, indeed, be St Dobri at the moment of his repose.

          • Grandmere

            That dude may very well be in an infernal doghouse.

          • Which dude, Grandmere?

          • Grandmere

            Paul Crouch. Founder of TBN and husband of the pink haired crone.

          • Many thanks for the clarification.

          • You mean because he is the highest giver to the temple he doesn’t demand they install the sound system he wants, pick the carpet he likes or has the priest preach a message more favorable to his liking? I’ve now found several videos of him and I have enjoyed all of them. The first one Steve posted, which was in English, was so humbling to me, it changed my attitude for the rest of that day and I’ve been drawn to him. It’s amazing how such humility can draw us in rather than the latest hair did, bling and all the jazz. I’m ashamed to say I’d never heard of him until you mentioned him this week.

          • There are loads of treasures in Orthodoxy, people like Dobri. Unfortunately, we can’t translate everything fast enough!

          • There are loads of treasures in Orthodoxy, people like Dobri. Unfortunately, we can’t translate everything fast enough!

          • Dobri had me from hello. “The devil made the TV and the newspapers, it all lie and deception,” further showed his genius. Here is the face of the man James told us to be mindful of. These are the faces society knows nothing about, so I thank you Steve that you helped us see the face of a saint. How much longer can one look on Hollywood or the mainstream media?

          • susan

            Is there an English translation?

          • Steve Smith

            yes there is should be in the vid.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        You made me laugh, ‘lardy hicks’, I shouldn’t have but would be lying to say I didn’t. Most people would have looked at Mother Teresa and judged her a bum as well.

        • Give me a street full of Mother Teresas asking for money over Muslims blathering about their righteousness (or Fundies quivering about how they’ll start a TV station to spread the ‘good news’, really in order to line their pockets) any day (or a country full of those who need not be named . One of the few Islamic charities I ever saw who did a decent thing was the Aga Khan Foundation, though, to be honest, he lives like a playboy. His group have preserved some ethnic music from Central Asia. As music is still my field, that act is appreciated.

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Unfortunately, the ‘good news’ that they spread is easy-believism.

          • Agreed. What you see on TV and in a lot of pulpits is salesmanship which has nothing to do with Christianity.

        • Willing to die for Jesus

          I think it was wrong she (Blessed Mother Teresa) wasn’t made a Saint and yet PJP2 who changed the ‘saint’ rules from 2 to 1.. conveniently benefited him and the ‘santo subito’ crowd… novus ordo not looking good

        • Willing to die for Jesus

          Blessed Mother Teresa did so much more than PJP2 in converting hearts to Christ and healing the physically sick, PJP2 did the same but spent most of his time denying child s*x abuse scandals…. I hate to agree with the foul Maureed Dowd that he ain’t a saint, if I had to air my opinion which I don’t like to if it only adds to anti-Catholic people… but sorry I just couldn’t help myself, Lord Jesus Christ, forgive me, a Sinner, Amen

          [re-posted since I forgot to put a * in “s*x” sheesh]

          • DeusLoVult

            Not being conversant in the topic, I have to ask. Who, in your opinion, was the last great Pope?

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            hard to say, I wonder what Mrs LaBrecque thinks… I would say someone before Vatican 2 obviously…. you know personally I don’t like this “papal infallibility” idea and think it’s unbiblical and prefer the Orthodox model, and Francis does call himself “Bishop of Rome” and his installation as Pope was the first since the Schism, a millenium almost, for an Orthodox Head (Ecumenical Patriarch) to attend, so it is pandering to Catholic-Orthodox unity which I like, but Francis isn’t Pro-Life or Anti-SSM enough, I like his views on the poor which the corporatists don’t like calling him Marxist for that… nor do I like his call for immigrants all the time, but I think that’s more for the Catholic Mexicans and Latin American migrants to America who help Christianize the US, compared to the migrants to Europe who are Muslim who Islamicize Europe….it’s hard being Pope so in Francis’s words (totally twisted and they shouldn’t have been uttered by him in this day and age of good being interpreted and twisted to suit, eg, gay agendas, ‘Who am I to judge’…

          • DeusLoVult

            I kind of like the Greek Orthodox model of old. The Byzantine emperor played an important role in Church affairs

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            as Rudy has said many evangelicals especially in the 80s/90s, many leaders converted en masse to the Antiochian Orthodox Church, including the founder of Jews for Jesus, Fr James Bernstein, his story makes for great testimony and a great witness: http://www.antiochian.org/biography-fr-james-bernstein

          • DeusLoVult

            I’ve never heard of the Antiochian Church. Where and when did it start?

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            wikipedia it, I’m reading Fr Bernstein’s amazing story. he was born in Jerusalem wow: http://www.antiochian.org/biography-fr-james-bernstein

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Wow, I say Wow, look at Fr Bernstein’s heritage:

            Father A. James Bernstein’s father Isaac, was born in 1909 in the Old City of Jerusalem where he was raised and was ordained an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi by the chief Rabbi of Palestine. Fr. James’ four grandparents are buried on the Mt. of Olives.

          • DeusLoVult

            I read it. Very interesting.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            I love reading testimonies of Jews and Muslims in particular coming to Christ

          • DeusLoVult

            It’s not really a kind of history that I take a fancy to. I prefer reading about military conflicts.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            that may just exacerbate anger issues you have, read uplifting and inspirational stories of faith, like Walid’s testimonies, the stories they post here of Muslims coming to Christ, Jews coming to Christ, etc and it keeps you from becoming despondent in the Faith too

          • DeusLoVult

            Maybe. I admit, reading about how Afghans used to take Soviet POW’s sever the flesh around their waists, peel it up over their heads, leave them to scream for a while, doesn’t make for inspirational reading, but it’s not all bad. I like reading about how such events (I am currently reading about Custer’s Washita Campaign) unfolded. I like books that are void of emotion, especially sadness. I have enough of that.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            aversion therapy?? it can help, just as we’ve become de-sensitized to beheading, sexual perversion, everything

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            valium, xanax, ativan have done wonders dulling my emotions, the sleeping pills temazepam etc and others mentioned I forget sometimes when I’ve taken them and I just fall asleep on the couch

          • DeusLoVult

            I definitely need something for my sleep. Natural supplements don’t seem to work.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            no if the prescription ones dont work the natural ones definitely wont

          • DeusLoVult

            I’ve never taken prescription meds for sleep. Only natural supplements.

          • DeusLoVult

            I’m not sensitive to any of the things listed in my above comment. None of that inspires emotion in me. I just don’t like touching stories that contain sadness.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            how are conversion to Christ from formerly Christ-denying Jews and Muslims sad? they are joyful?!

          • DeusLoVult

            Well…you have a point there. Maybe I just have trouble feeling joyful emotions from reading about such things.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            you sound like you need amphematimes or black coffee.. something to ‘pick you up’ if you’re emotion are that dull, if they are don’t need benzos, they are for overly-emotional people like me… but then it’s a cycle these meds then they dull you and you seek the steroids to lift you back up again

          • DeusLoVult

            No, I am overly emotional…but only when it comes to anger and depression. Positive emotions, I rarely feel.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            you’re young, if you had a wife and children, I’m sure those natural “positive emotions” would flow I’m sure of it

          • DeusLoVult

            Probably. I’ll have to be able to take care myself first though. I don’t know…..the world is a very stressful place to live in. I hope Jesus returns soon.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            I have to say don’t revel too much in this torture stuff, it isn’t nice or edifying…

          • DeusLoVult

            I do not enjoy torture. I don’t no how you derived that from my comment. It’s just, that reading about doesn’t affect me.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            this is the comment to which I was responding this thread doesnt flow the way it should for reading purposes:

            “reading about how Afghans used to take Soviet POW’s sever the flesh around their waists, peel it up over their heads, leave them to scream for a while, doesn’t make for inspirational reading, but it’s not all bad. I like reading about how such events (I am currently reading about Custer’s Washita Campaign) unfolded. I like books that are void of emotion, especially sadness. I have enough of that.”

          • DeusLoVult

            I know which comment you referred you’re response to. What I posted doesn’t mean that I revel in cruelty. I was trying to make the point that reading military history isn’t flowery, yet, there is heroism and triumph of good over evil too.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            ok i see, but don’t just focus on this stuff, to the detriment of losing sight of the Prize: CHRIST

          • DeusLoVult

            I know. But, reading about Christian heroes of old and what they suffered, were willing to suffer for Christ, and the godly outcomes (i.e. successful emancipation of Christian slaves) gives me hope for a better future.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Yes AMEN

          • Lives of the Saints. Look for this.

          • susan

            Please remain tender hearted. I worry about those who can no longer cry.

          • DeusLoVult

            I wonder whether or not it is good to be stoic. I can watch decapitations and not avert my eyes, nor look upon it in horror. I simply watch, silently, unperturbed by the event I have so often come to expect. It is when I read about women and children being raped, that my heart burns hotter than the core of our planet. Being so depressed and angry all of the time as it is, I try not feel too much more when I read these horror stories.

          • What was your reaction the very first time you watched a decapitation? That was probably your true emotion. If it was stoic then, it is probably just something that does not affect you like it does others. There are others who wouldn’t sleep for weeks if they witnessed even the beginnings of one. Either way, we all have to be careful of those things that dull our senses no matter what they are. Every criminal is nervous their first time. Then as they perfect their craft or engage more often, the nerves calm down. I would say it is true of just about most activities. Don’t discount your feelings. They can bring us into a deeper place in our prayer life with Christ and how and what to pray for.

          • DeusLoVult

            I didn’t have a reaction. I never have. Seeing death, no matter how it occurs doesn’t affect me.

          • I must admit, I’m not really a crier. Probably has more to do with upbringing than anything else.

          • DeusLoVult

            I’m much the same.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            it’s also not a ‘history’ but a contemporaneous and continuing affair, I meant current day conversions not historical or “middle ages” or pre 20th century conversions

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Antioch was one of the first 5 Christian Churches each headed by a Patriarch: Rome (being the largest and its head being the Latin Patriarch aka the Pope of Rome, but Francis is now calling hiimslf “Bishop of Rome” which is more accurate historically and Biblical), Constantinople (fallen to the Anti-Christ Turks), Jerusalem, Antioch (in modern day Turkey), Alexandria (in Egypt)… only Rome is in Christian hands, and Jerusalem has a Christian quarter made up of an Armenian part, a Latin/Roman Catholic part, and an Eastern Orthodox part…. no evangelicals or Prots in the Holy Land my Prot/evangelical friends……. does it say something to you with your millions of Churches you create each day? (sorry for the non-Christian Pro-Unity approach I promote – Lord Jesus Christ, please forgive me, a Sinner, Amen.

          • DeusLoVult

            “does it say something to you with your millions of Churches you create each day?” I think I’ve already told you that I don’t like Protestants very much. I am much more fond of Orthodox teaching.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            sorry I didn’t meant that to you, more to other’s reading the thread, I know that, sorry it was said as a response to you, because people still read our threads, Lord Jesus Christ, forgive me, a sinner, Amen.

          • Constantinople still exists as a Patriarchate. Turkey be damned.

          • DeusLoVult

            They will be. Constantinople will be ours again.

          • It started after Pentecost. It is where the name Christian was first used in 50 A.D.

          • Great story. Another great one here, which really spoke to me after I first heard him on Ancient Faith Radio. I decided to google Clark’s name to see what material was out there on him and came across this:

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Thank you Vinny for the link, it was inspiring and lovely, the one-legged preacher comment reminded me of the one-lung Pope, thanks again for the testimonial, loved it, God bless you and your family immensely, in the name of our One and Only Crucified Savior, Begotten of the Holy Mother of God Virgin Mary, Amen. Lord Jesus, forgive me, a Sinner, Amen.

          • Peter Gillquist of blessed memory comes to mind.

          • The concept of symphonia is an old one in Orthodoxy. Unfortunately, we have crap leaders now.

          • Leo the Great, for me.

          • I have lot of problems with JPII, though I love and admire him. He was lax during the worst scandals, and he allowed the cretin Cardinal Mahoney to excommunicate so many who were Latin Rite. He deserved to be excommunicated, as with Cardinal Law from Boston.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            oh yeah don’t get me started… pandering to Croatian N*zis was a big one… so un-ecumenical or rather inter-Christian, he wasn’t going to unite the Catholic-Orthodox divide beaitfying (and now he’s a “saint”) that Cardinal… who was it… that killed all those Serbs and Jews during WW2 and was fighting Communism…

    • andrea

      Julie thank you for the info I tried to reply back from an earlier post it was about cremation. I got your info thank you.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        I’ve already posted about cremation, how the Orthodox forbid it, no Orthodox priest would preside over one outside Japan where that pagan country outlaws burials (don’t know why), on the same token Orthodox Greece and Israel outlaw cremation… and when the first crematorium in Israel was opened a few years ago it didnt last long before it was being bombed and threatened because many atheist/secular Israelis wanted to be cremated….. I think statistically more atheists/seculars BY FAR choose this method as it originated in the West, the first crematorium was in Bologna, Italty I think (coincidentally where the first university was I think) to deny the Bodily resurrection… Jesus wasn’t cremated, Jews don’t do it, and even the Islamics who plagiarize much from the Islamics and from Christians… Before Vatican 2, Cremation wasn’t allowed for Catholics either but Vatican 2 has done so much damage to the faith, especially in Europe and we’re seeing the mess now in the US too…

        • Great post. I just recently listened to a short podcast by Abbot Triphon on Ancient Faith Radio on this very topic. If anyone wants to here a short Orthodox Version of it, go to Ancient Faith Radio, Podcast, Browse by Author, and Abbot Triphon is the second last author listed. Browse his topics, they are short, perhaps 3-5 minutes and he clearly delineates everything you just said and why cremation is forbidden within Orthodoxy. My entire family is Catholic, and no one that I know of was cremated. Everyone is buried pretty much in the same cemetery. I never believed in cremation and I have it clearly delineated in my will and trust that I am to be buried. We are the temple of the Lord. Thank you for all of your input you provide, though I don’t always have time to read all of your posts.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Mine too, same story, God bless you.

        • Look for Fr Josiah Trenham’s talks on Orthodox burial. His church was founded originally as an Orthodox burial society.

  • The Enlightenment era is over. We’re watching it come apart before our very eyes. Perhaps some sanity can come back now.

    • Trevor

      I wonder how much of the Enlightment were actually part of the Sufi movement? I was digging into it and discovered the claim that they are older and dates to pre-Islamic times. In other words, Sufism have different flavors that attracts different people. They also blaspheme Christ by claiming He is the Head of Sufism not Christianity.

      • The movement far predates the Enlightenment, but I would say that Western popularization of Sufis comes a lot from Georges Gurdjieff. I actually enjoy reading “Meetings With Remarkable Men,” but outside of that, he peddled a lot of esoteric nonsense. He was New Age before New Age was ‘cool’.

        • Trevor

          I found it quite alarming reading about Sufism from their website. Trying to say that even Christ was a Sufi was a huge red flag, like klaxon blaring in my ears! I now understand why Walid had to be so harsh toward Richardson in his promotion of Rumi’s works. They had a poem of Rumi’s and it made my skin crawl.

          • andrea

            Trevor, amen to that about Rumi. I had started seeing the guy’s name and looked it up. Wasn’t impressed.

          • If it’s taken simply as literature, I don’t mind it. The problem is that once you look at it through the lens of theology, you have a very nasty surprise waiting for you when you read it. It reminds me of those fools who say they don’t believe in the ‘church’, only Jesus, when Jesus left us the Church.

          • Trevor

            Indeed. I can see why Walid believes the Antichrist could be a Sufi himself, like Erdogan.

            Then there’s people like Rick Warren who champions Chrislam which smacks of Sufism.

            It’s no wonder the falling away seem to be getting worse.

          • I think a lot of what happens from people like Warren come from ignorance. To his credit, he’s trying to learn, but he’s got a long way to do, and his followers will suffer for it. He needs to spend a lot more time with the Orthodox (he is a relatively frequent visitor to the Antiochian Orthodox Church headquarters, and is at least better than, say, Joel Osteen, who has nothing to redeem himself of his male Oprah shtick).

          • Steve Smith

            I never heard Osteen, say any thing remotely Christian.

          • He will through a Jesus or God in the mix. Otherwise, it’s Oprah and male parts and a lack of melanin.

          • Grandmere

            and He will say to them, Depart from me. I never knew you.

          • Grandmere

            He looks a lot like a weasel to me.

          • Steve Smith

            He reminds me of the cat in the Alice stories. I hate the shat eat’n grin of his. oops my “Southern” came out.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            hahaha great observation and likeness to the Cheshire Cat he does have!

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            I pretty much only like Southern Americans and some mid-westerners, don’t like the secular arrogant Northern Englanders or NorthWest Pacific types either (of course a huge generalization but it’s only human to work off the macro and make exceptions for the micro)

          • Grandmere

            I like it when your “Southern” comes out to play.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            the New Age Queen of the USA – Oprah Winfrey admires him and has had him on her O Channel… enough said… if Oprah likes you… and He’s a preacher…..STAY AWAY

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Fr James Bernstein – founder of Jews for Jesus – became Antiochian Orthodox – I was so shocked! and he regretted starting Jews for Jesus, which wasn’t very nice as Messianic Jews are still Christ-worshipping

          • This is one of the few areas where we’ll disagree.

            Fr Bernstein has a point. Jews For Jesus are not Trinitarian. They believe in a heretical view of Jesus. This is one of the reasons he regretted founding the organization. One can be an ethnic Jew, follow all the cultural customs and be a good, Orthodox Christian. One CANNOT be a religious Jew and claim to be a Christian.

            I would point you to the Judaizer controversy which was dealt with in Orthodoxy here.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Oh I didn’t know that, I agree with you, but I know their hearts are in the right place, they try to avoid the Cross because of the trauma of WW2 Holocaust and how the Jews (like Muslims) hate the Cross and deny Jesus as Lord and Savior, but I didn’t realize they were non-Trinitarian, that’s the first time I’ve heard of this… I thought they believed that Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten Son of God, Born of the Virgin Mary Mother of God, Crucified and Shed His Blood on the Cross for all of Us, King of the Jews and King of the Entire World which part are they non-Trinitarian… that they “shun” the Cross? Or don’t display it? Even though they do in practice with their theology, I could be wrong, I’m Catholic and I enjoy reading Muslim and Jewish conversions to Christ.. with a strong affinity and desire for (Russian) Orthodoxy of coourse

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Oh I didn’t know that, I agree with you, but I know their hearts are in the right place, they try to avoid the Cross because of the trauma of WW2 Holocaust and how the Jews (like Muslims) hate the Cross and deny Jesus as Lord and Savior, but I didn’t realize they were non-Trinitarian, that’s the first time I’ve heard of this… I thought they believed that Jesus Christ was the Only Begotten Son of God, Born of the Virgin Mary Mother of God, Crucified and Shed His Blood on the Cross for all of Us, King of the Jews and King of the Entire World which part are they non-Trinitarian… that they “shun” the Cross? Or don’t display it? Even though they do in practice with their theology, I could be wrong, I’m Catholic and I enjoy reading Muslim and Jewish conversions to Christ.. with a strong affinity and desire for (Russian) Orthodoxy of coourse

          • I think that the trauma of the Holocaust (one of the worst acts of barbarism in the history of humanity, second perhaps only to Tamerlane wiping out nearly 5% of the world in his day) has been used recently as a crutch. They have been going at it with us since the beginning, and cling stubbornly to something Christ released them from.

            I, too, love seeing Jews convert. This is why I am always thrilled to introduce people to Fr James Bernstein, or locally, to our Israeli converts to the Greek Orthodox Church locally. They bring a wonderful element, and showed a tremendous amount of bravery to take Christ’s heed to enter His church, rather than play ‘Jew’ with a cross using a Protestant paradigm. That, like most non-Apostolic Christianity, smacks of phoniness.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            I agree with you as always

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            thanks for the link Rudy, I read it, it does go very ‘soft’ on the Jews to say the least and I agree with it…

          • Willing, I’m happy to help. I get so angry when I hear Protestants attack Christians when Christians, especially Arab ones, get tired of being harassed by Orthodox Jewish settlers who openly defile our Cross. They are not innocent, and I have no sympathy for them if they get attacked. The few allies we have in Israel itself are those who are of the Conservative tradition or those who are so liberal that they don’t care what you are. Some overdo it and help the Muslims as well, so this is a problem, but there is some support for Orthodox and Catholics.

          • Not sure where it is, but you posted a link to the article about Fr. Bernstein. It was very interesting.

          • The “I don’t believe in the church” crowd is very much a post-modern mold on the protestant/evangelical history. Many of them are those who can’t stand authority, can’t be told anything and refuse to pay allegiance to anything. Their “I don’t believe or hold to any church” stance has almost become like a patriotism to them. They act as though this kind of attitude gives them an almost “I have nothing but Jesus” attitude about them. It is correct as you said, they forget it was Jesus who gave us the church. They act as though the more they rebel against the church the holier they are, because it is just them and Jesus. The post-modern movement is a cancer that is going to become terminal for much of the evangelicalism.

          • You nailed it, Vinny. A lot of this is hyper-individualism. People hate hearing it, but it is not at all Christian to be this way. We believe in a King, not a CEO or president. But people want to not share responsibility. There is no love without another person being involved. To say you ‘love’ God without struggling with your fellow man means that you don’t at all, full stop. You’re simply an arrogant prig who wants to do things your way, and that’s it.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            EXACTLY.. they keep on reinventing the same wheel that eventually rolls into secularism/atheism after they get tired of the same old thing

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            OMG what blasphemy about what they claim about Jesus… well it is an Islamic off-shoot should I be shocked considering the filthy lies Islam says about Our Crucified Savior

          • Trevor

            Nope. It is blasphemy.

      • Stephen Dalton

        The Enlightenment was largely an occultic thing at it’s heart and core. Freemasonry played a big part in it.

        • andrea

          Stephon Dalton, amen to that and the Kabbalah at the core of masonary. Btw they accept the KJV, Koran, Torah and one more as holy books them and Shriners. Ny friend had a kjv was 32d degree mason. That bible says kjv but symbolism overrides any words. It was creepy.

          • Stephen Dalton

            There’s a reason why the Freemasons except the KJV as the Holy Book to put on the altar in Protestant countries. Freemasonry started in Scotland around the early 14th century. Three centuries later King James VI of Scotland became King James I of the United Kingdom. When he came to London to be crowned king, he brought Freemasonry with him. A few years later, he decided he wanted a standard English translation of the Bible made to replace the various ones that were floating around at that time. The result, of course, was the KJV. Since one of their own has published and printed a Bible, that version became the one used in British and American lodges.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Protestants started the Freemason crap… and are the ones who now started the same s*x marriage b*shit… when have Protestant clergy been wiped out like the French and Russian Clergy were executed en masse? France and Russia have so many martyrs of clergy and men and women religious

          • So very true, Willing.

        • Yes, indeed. We do ourselves a grave disservice in pretending this country was founded as a ‘Christian’ nation. We had Christians here, most certainly, and we have roots (even if I don’t agree with them). The issue is with a lot of the Founding Fathers. Too many believed in rubbish (Jefferson and Paine being among the worst).

    • Willing to die for Jesus

      THANK GOD IF THAT IS SO RUDY (I don’t think it is though, not as long as the West continues to exist, it will be over when it ends, only the West abides by it, the Rest don’t) – MERKEL DID PROCLAIM “MULTICULTURALISM IS DEAD” IN GERMANY BUT THEN THE N*ZI IN HER SAID TRUTHFULLY “ISLAM IS A PART OF GERMANY”… D’uh with Hitler’s admiration of the Ottoman empire and his lamenting that he wished the Germans had converted to Islam so they could be barbarian like the Muslims… so he needed to debase Christianity and therefore de-Christianize the Germans so they could do the wickedness they did during the Holocaust… same thing with the Soviet/ flip-side (both are “socialisms”)… de-Christianization is so dangerous to humanity, people really need to be told a truthful account of History: Namely Pagan Rome, Ancient Greek Practices, Why the Roman Empire collapsed (and similarities to today’s Roman Republic of the USA), and truthful history about the Crusades, poison of Enlightenment, etc…

  • Sister E

    The Chinese! They get it! How about us, Westerners???
    When will be get it???

    • Probably never, Sister. We, as a people, are poisoned with idiocy.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        AMEN and poisoning the nations with bombs and ensuring Cancers are manifested in the future, eg, Serbia bombing, Iraq bombing, if you just google all the Cancers that have occured due to the cluster bombs and phosphorous use in the bombing it’ll astound you… the birth defects.. I’m preaching to the choir here, this is more for others who may read this comment… sadly the US is arming Ukraine with these same weapons when Chernobyl has already guaranteed leukemias for generations and yet more carcinogenic weapons are used… their populations (esp Ukraine) are shrinking but they don’t care (the fake “Ukraine” US-supported coup-installed Gvt), so calling the USA nation of the Cross as the Muslims do is the most blasphemous and deluded thing considering all the evil the nation has done since Vietnam.. more bad than good if it had to be weighed on the truly Blindfolded Woman on the Scales of Justice…. an isolationist policy would be best….. as China has

    • LJW

      Hopefully, when we get the Muslim out of the White House. Thank GOD elections are right around the corner. Can’t turn that corner fast enough for me.

  • Stephen Dalton

    I fail to see how this reverse prohibition is going to work in the long run. Prohibition didn’t work in the United States during the 1920’s, and this reverse prohibition won’t work in China. The ChiComs think by enforcing outward obedience they will control their Muslim population. They have been trying to do that to the Christians for years, and in spite of their efforts, all branches of the Christian faith are growing. I suspect this is what will happen with the Muslims, too.

    • Sister E

      No, not necessarily. I disagree. This is the only way to solve the Islamic “problem”. Christianity is not posing problems to anyone – even though sometimes some people think it is.
      China did the right thing and they are not going to back down.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        Yes I agree Sister – see China wanted to know why the US was so powerful and they thought it must be their religion Christianity so they started being lax on it, but if they now equate Christianity and the US,, they will think it means sodomy, etc, and be disgusted, so I don’t want the US to be Ambassadors for Christ on the world stage if they are going to continue their sin and turning back on God… it works to Muslims to then say… we were right all along, those Christians are evil (even those it’s the Atheists in the west) and hence would prevent conversions. I feel sorry for the missionaries in the Non-Western countries who not only have to counter or answer and battle Islamic lies but also have to explain the countries they come from are not really Christian anymore, not like in the colonial times when they had government support and those Government Empires respected Our God and values

      • Stephen Dalton

        The only way to deal with the Muslims is to go whole hog, and not even bother with half way measures like this. Expel them, for they will fight you to the death!

        • Willing to die for Jesus

          but Walid was a former Muslim, I agree instinctively of course with you… more a combo between you and Sister…. if the Muslims of Bethlehem were eradicated as I wish they would and this happened when Walid was there, we would have lost this prophecy expert of God…. like all the miracles we have lost potentially through the horrors of abortion

    • Different culture, Stephen.

      • Stephen Dalton

        Communists don’t really understand religion. If they think petty harassment like thing will break the Muslims, they have a big surprise coming to them.

        • Willing to die for Jesus

          Read “Jesus in China” Stephen… I know you’re scarred by Communists but Capitalists are no panacea either… PJP2 hated both

          • Stephen Dalton

            PJP2 never understood capitalism, he lived most of his life under Nazism and communism. Pope Francis is even worse, he has imbibed Peronism as a boy, and for years he had a communist woman as a close friend. Moral of the story, don’t go to pope’s for advice on economics.

        • They use trappings, as they are quasi-religious themselves. The Chinese have a history which spans 5,000 years. Communism is merely a fart in the wind. It will die out from it’s own lack of inertia eventually.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            but it’s utopianism of humanity making idols of God/ Heaven on Earth like the Israelites did with worshipping the false God of the Golden Calf will repeat itself over and over throughout humankind forever

          • You speak wisdom. This is the world we live in, I’m afraid. May God end this madness quickly.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            thank you, I really enjoy reading your posts which are immensely more full of wisdom than mine, God bless you and your family immensely in the name of our One and Only Begotten Son of the Mother of God and the Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, Crucified for Our Sins, Lord of Lords, King of the Jews, King of the Universe, Amen.
            Lord forgive me, a Sinner, Amen.

    • LJW

      China being communist, will decide what is acceptable to them and what is not as far as religion or anything else. I don’t think the word; justice, democracy, equal rights, or tolerance figures into their equation. They do not feel they must treat everyone the same.

    • Willing to die for Jesus

      especially the tobacco prohibition, it’s not even mentioned as being against Islam, and they say they never “add” new rules or corrupt their religion as we Christians have …. lying hypocrites

  • EBH54

    Things to have in your muslim “survival bag”
    chitlins,cigarettes,trumpet or rams horn, church bell,bible,gun,whiskey,Gods War on Terror
    Anything else?

    • EBH54

      “This man fights.” Abraham Lincoln
      He also drank whiskey and smoked cigars.
      Did he offend the devil?
      http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=411&PIpi=29846862

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Cross – drive them really mad.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        you got me thinking about that expression when children are chided “I’m really cross with you”.. is it more to do with, eg, the child crossing the wrong way in their behavior, or backstabbing? otherwise it sounds like the word “Cross” is being used blasphemously or as a threat as in, I’m cross with you (and want to crucify you)… I’m always intriged by etymology, ie meaning and history behind the development of words and phrases and popular sayings

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        and a Stake through which to stab them in the heart (h/t the saintly Vlad the Impaler…. now why wasn’t he made a saint?!)

        • DeusLoVult

          He didn’t impale enough Turks to be considered saintly. There were still millions of them left when he died. 😉

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            touché

        • Julie LaBrecque

          I have no answer for that question, maybe he didn’t meet the qualifications – have to have led a ‘saintly’ life – Charles Martel isn’t a saint either.

    • RodK1975

      Metallica CDs… lol

      • EBH54

        This sure to offend somebody!

      • Stephen Dalton

        Megadeth, my cousin, Dave Mustaine, heads up the band!

        • RodK1975

          DAVE MUSTAINE IS YOUR COUSIN? 😮

        • Dave wrote most of Metallica’s good early songs.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        the nerve one of them had to sue the Napster P2P program… idiot

    • LJW

      Bacon!

    • Grandmere

      A rosary.

    • Wet wipes.

  • Andy Holland

    Geopolitically the Chinese are being foolish and it bodes ill for Christians in China.

    We fight bad ideas with better ones – Christianity is better because we are to bless our enemies, fight evil with good, and make converts of God’s image to attain to His likeness – humility, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, meekness, self control and love – against which no one can argue.

    • Sister E

      But there are unfortunate lost sinners who are reprobates. who are beyond salvation. Jesus wept bitterly for them.

      • Andy Holland

        So let’s weep, and if they pull a gun on someone else, lock and load. I remember a Nun who protected her orphans packing heat. She was 4 foot nothing in Guatemala, and when the Banditos tried to stop her, she walked up to the biggest one, started jabbing her finger into his chest and telling him off with all his men standing in awe. They wisely backed down.
        But if they go to crucify us, pray about it, try to get away (humility), but if they get us, go with it – and forgive them – and become like the Master – perfect.
        We have the Holy Spirit of Truth and power. I have seen marvels where people do and say things in the moment that are awesome in the Holy Spirit. We don’t rehearse, we don’t do the worldly thing; we do the heavenly.

        • Willing to die for Jesus

          If this was in Guatemala the thugs would have been raised or exposed to a Christian culture…. it’s different in a pagan context like China or Muslim countries

          • Andy Holland

            True, but we have a God who made a cosmos estimated at 153 billion light years, with the redeemer who arose from the dead. Our opponents don’t have a prayer, like Mr. T said, “I pity the fools.” And Christ on the T said, ‘ forgive them Father they no not what they do.’

            Just pity the fools….

  • RodK1975

    This is how you get rid of them… Just make it intolerable for them to continue living here.

    • Eric

      Yep. I hope the west catches up quickly–though if history has proven anything, the US is slow to respond. I mean, we literally had to be bombed in order to get involved in WW2 for goodness sake. . .

  • EBH54

    Alcohol and cigarettes offend the devil!

    Another screeching train.

    • Anyone who thinks that has never been to a Macedonian monastery. They make good rakija and a few smoke like chimneys.

      • EBH54

        I get it. I respect it. It is a commentary on us Evangelical protestants who were raised to never drink alcohol or smoke. I do not hold to it anymore. I grew up in once dry town. No alcohol allowed. Anytime I am confronted with a new Idea that goes 180 degrees against what I have been taught on this sight. I think of this screeching train.

        • There are Evangelicals who mean well. I understand where a person wants to remain dry if they themselves had an issue with alcohol. That is a thoroughly respectable position. It is the imposition on everyone else I hate. In Eastern Europe, you don’t see that much alcoholism because they respect the hootch.

          • EBH54

            “It is the imposition on everyone else I hate.”
            I agree. There is one movement after another in this country trying to force us to conform to someones idea of how we should behave and think.
            FYI growing up in a small town USA in late 50’s and 60’s was great. It is very difficult to see what is happening to this country.

          • Grandmere

            Those were the days!

          • EBH54

          • Steve Smith

            Ebh54, think you may have a Russian heart!

          • Steve Smith

            Grandmere, life was easy for us then, I don’t like the way it has turned out now.

          • SuzyQ

            Yes, there was much good in the 50’s and 60’s but, we also had to deal with the deaths of the president, his brother and MLK in the 60’s. Rough uncertain times for us too, as youths. But, still much better times than what the young are dealing with now.

          • Grandmere

            My grandchildren will never know the freedom from fear we had. Life is stressful for children today.

          • Steve Smith

            we never locked the farm house door, unthinkable now.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            I wish I was born earlier than the 80s… 60s perhaps… but I’m not sure coming of age in the 1980s would have been so good, yes there was Reagan, it was very decadent, but still I think born in the late 50s/ early 60s would’ve been best.. to have lived through the Reagan presidencies

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            they mean well but their Good Intentions not only send them on the Path to H*ll but they drag others with those good intentions down wiih them to those good intentions to H*ll… I still can’t forget how they thought the whole Eastern Europe and Russia had just stopped being Christian just because of a few decades, a generation of being under Godless Communism, as if they were going to adopt US Evangelicalism, they were naturally going to go back to the faith of their fathers…. it’s like if Russians now try to go to the US and try to convert all you Obama-worshippers to the Orthodox faith (Obama-worshipping should be considered a religion in its own right, it’s come to that level, Barbara Walters even said the media praised him so much because they thought and she hesitated to say it, that Obama was the messiah, Heavens!)…. a joke I remember reading were some dumb evangelicals who had a T-Shirt on saying ‘Russia for Christ’ and on their Shirts were Russian CHURCHES topped with… CROSSES… as if they were landing in a non-evangelized country or in a country that doesn’t recognize or worship the Cross

          • EBH54

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            there you go… Please Someone from Russia come and convert them to Orthodoxy… I see no Crosses anywhere (and of course you wouldn’t if you’re praising a Muslim).. thanks for the *puke* video posting

          • EBH54

            The Russians are coming!

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            AMEN… the Soviets were defamed, their falling was their anti-God stance, be warned USA… how much longer will God tolerate you turning your back to HIM…. I repeat no Empire has existed when the DIVINE Protection/Mantle has been removed through the decadence of its people… you’ve/ we’ve been warned

          • Sister E

            In fact the Russian Orthodox are very devout Christians; more Christian than many Evangelicals.

          • Well you are right. If you look at evangelical statistics, they would say places like Uzbekistan of Khazikstan are only 1% evangelical or .8% evangelical, and that is how they count their “Christian” stats. To them, if they are not “evangelical” they are not Christian. So Evangelicals look at the evangelical stats in Russia and that is how they count how many Christians are there. In fact, some most likely think Orthodox need to be “converted” to Christianity. Neither side talks to the other, nor knows anything about the other, and that is why these things happen.
            So what should or could we do. I’ve met, introduced myself and worshipped with the Orthodox in my area. I am now in the process of introducing my pastor (Baptist) to the Greek Orthodox priest in my city. They’ve never met, ever, neither has either tradition ever sat at the same table with one another. I figure it won’t happen unless I bring them to the same table, something the Orthodox priest and my pastor have agreed to. The conversation has to start somewhere.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            wow Vinny God Bless You immensely brother, you are truly a Gift from God! That is such a beautifully Christian gesture and act of facilitating inter-Christian understanding to counter what you mentioned above – in particular, the annoying (if not actually heretical) evangelical view of seeing fellow Christians – Catholics and Orthodox – as not being Christian (even though I see Trnitarian traditional evangelicals as Christians who are not into the whole novelties of “gay marriges” and other apostate “developments”, anyway – I’ve also commented before that it is this group that is the most Russophobic and annoys me so much, Catholics being less so, perhaps because of Our Lady of Fatima’s Vision and the Consecration of Moscow and many Catholics that see Russia as converted even if it is back to her traditional Orthodoxy because it is on the path to the eventual re-unification of the tragic Schism of 1054 or so? forget the exact date…)

          • One of my first mission trips was to central Asia. When we arrived in country and we were getting a brief tour, history of the city and the Muslims in the area, I asked, “are there any churches here?” The reply came, “well there are the orthodox.” At the time I had no understanding of Orthodox theology, a passing general knowledge of the Orthodox church and did not personally know one Orthodox individual. In my mind I remembered thinking, “well at least there is a remnant of Christianity here.” However, that did not seem to be the thinking of our hosts. To them it seemed as though their view was now that we evangelicals were there, it was our goal to spread the gospel. This is a post that could go on for pages, but basically I thought at the time we were having very good success generating conversation with the Muslims and introducing them to Christ. Many of them just had an old wives’ tale notion that Christians eat babies. So to engage them in conversation and show them we were people with whom they could interact I think spoke to so many of them. Years later, as I’ve reflected on my time there, I have fondly looked back at the work the missionaries in country were doing, but was also puzzled by their view and relationship with Orthodoxy. This past fall we hosted one of the missionaries back home and he was relating to us issues their were having with the government as it has grown more radicalized under Islam. I asked him why they did not partner with the Orthodox? The missionary seemed to have a grim outlook, but was also open to the possibility of starting a dialogue with them. I’ve not heard how it went, but I think an open dialogue with the Orthodox can go a long way in their country. Anyway, those conversations and inquires were instrumental on starting me down a path of understanding more of the Orthodox and studying the church.

          • RodK1975

            Smoking and occasionally drinking Evangelical here… lol. You said the key phrase, Rudy… “Respect the hootch”… A lot of people make fun of us here in the south and you’re always going to have drunken idiots, but “moonshine” is a craft and the real moonshiners respect it and take serious care and craftsmanship and put it into their product. My dad and I use to make wine and kraut every year. A lot of hard work goes into making something special like that, it was a labor of love.

          • Amen to that! It’s an art, indeed.

            A good friend of mine is considering making rakija, which is a Macedonian brandy made from white grapes, and his father is a chemist. He wants me to go into business with him. Perhaps we can get a blessing to do this. 😀

          • RodK1975

            Awesome… you know… you may want to consider the southern distillation set up :-)). How many times is it distilled and do they have an old heirloom yeast batch?

          • That’s how most people do it there!

          • RodK1975

            Ohh.. ok, cool, no single distilling lol. I like it!

          • Steve Smith

            My Dad made a vodka from pears, must be a carpatho-russian thing, he also made beer. I open a bottle now and then to remember him.

          • RodK1975

            Steve, do you guys ever use anything to flavor your vodka after it’s been distilled? Like spices or herbs for medicine?

          • Steve Smith

            Yes, cherry pit .lemon peal. My favorite bufflo grass, grandma used elderberry syrup,mixed with it when we were sick with cold,or flu.

          • RodK1975

            Cool, my dad likes to put some up to age with lemon slices, peaches and fresh mint.

          • Grandmere

            Ahh. Lemoncello!

          • My grandpa used to trade his wine with a man down the street who made vodka, but my dad swore it was moonshine. He believes his drinking of whatever that guy made is what made him sick. My grandpa used to have wine with breakfast … a practice I hope to take up when I retire!!!

          • Steve Smith

            The secret to vodka is that you eat something oily like salami then you avoid being sick. Russians always eat when we drink.

          • Salami … it goes with everything for a Sicilian!

          • That is a wonderful way to remember. And that sounds good right about now.

          • Trevor

            One thing you don’t do ever is piss off a drunken mountain man drinking moonshine. No, sir. They shoot at everything for fun.

          • RodK1975

            LOL… Maybe ISIS will pay a visit to the mountains 😉

          • Steve Smith

            Or a down home Hunky, from Eastern PA.

          • My grandpa had his wine press in the basement. I think every Italian in the neighborhood who came over from Italy had one. When he passed away in 1950, my dad, to this day, is still sick over the fact my grandma promised his press to a cousin of theirs. When my dad came home and saw them wheeling it away he stopped them while he pleaded with grandma. She told him, in Italian of course, to let it go and she promised it to them. My dad never forgave himself for letting it drive off the property that day. But grandma’s word was her word, he could not go against it.

          • RodK1975

            Oh man, that’s awful Vinny… I bet it was a work of art and made the best wine… Geez…

          • It’s a lost art in my family now. I’d love to recover the ability someday. Maybe when I retire.

          • Grandmere

            I had a shot of shine once. Nearly blew my head off.

          • Trevor

            My wife told me how on her trip to Austria, she saw how often people drank and they didn’t think much of it. She even witnessed a mom giving her baby a water down wine just to soothe the baby.

          • Steve Smith

            Never drink water over there, unless it is in a bottle.

          • Yes, indeed, Trevor. I was fed table wine and beer by six, watered down, and never really had a taste to abuse it. I would watch in high school as my friends never had this lesson taught to them, and would end up in a heap of vomit.

          • Trevor

            That is one of the biggest problems here, as I’m sure you know.

          • Oh, indeed, I do…

          • Andy Holland

            You have to understand that in America many are related to American Indians, who are genetically predispositioned to abuse alcohol. It makes sense then that American protestants have resisted or banned it – much more serious problem here than Europe.

          • That I can respect. There is a gene in a lot of American Indians in the East Coast which abhors alcohol. Yet, on the West Coast, a lot of American Indians are Roman Catholic, and don’t quite have that problem with communion, nor to the Alaskan Inuit and Eskimo, a large percentage of whom are Russian Orthodox.

          • Regarding my taste for wine as I’ve advanced in age, I’ll quote my pseudo-relatives:

            Vito Corleone: I like to drink wine more than I used to.
            Michael: It’s good for ya, Pop.
            Vito Corleone: Anyway I’m drinkin’ more.

          • Cheers, and bottoms-up!

        • Grandmere

          I love you and your train. lol

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            me too

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        I love the Orthodox but I wish they were more into evangelization, sadly the Catholics have lost their missionary ethic too… the non-Trinitarian heretics are over-the-top with door-knocking evangelizing… I’m open to Christians, even pseudo-ones, but when BOTH Mormons & JWs come to you, give you literature and you mutually Bless each other, they come around again, then I notice it’s them and don’t answer the door… it pains me the Catholics and Orthodox are not missionizing enough

        • Actually, we’re everywhere. We’ve converted 500,000 Mayans in Southern Mexico and Guatemala, the Indonesian Church is growing, and the Russian Orthodox have missions in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Pakistan. Africa is full of Greek Orthodox missionaries. The problem is that Americans want it ‘sold’ to them. The Church is timeless, and not for sale. But we will be here when the curious seek us out.

    • Willing to die for Jesus

      A baptist church around here had on their billboards, Smoking Kills You in This Life But Denying Jesus Kills You in the Afterlife… AMEN

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        then the atheist and anti-smoking fanatics cried saying they were copying their effective (NOT) tactics of using “shock tactics”… addicts are not frightened by images… the body craves and gets what it wants. only medicine (and prayer) can deal with addiction… but that billboard spoke Truth and I think they were more offended by the Truth than the mimicking of the anti-tobacco campaign

      • Trevor

        Good ol’ baptist! I grew up in a Southern or Independent Baptist church. Nothing like hellfire, brimstone, and damnation preachings to keep you on the straight and narrow.

        My favorite baptist pastor was Oklahoma farm raised boy. When he gets going, he gets going. He is so passionate when he preaches and we make fun of him yelling a lot, but his heart is of gold.

        I remember the night a family with a kid who had a severe cerbral palsy become saved, and the pastor couldn’t talk. He was so emotional.

        Another time where he got emotional was when a missionary showed a video of a tribe somewhere in South America accepting Christ. It was an awesome video.

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    Tobacco… Middle Eastern Muslim men love this and their hookahs…. I don’t understand this part, a ban or refraining from tobacco? (And in the West I see a lot of hijabi women smoking on the street, poor souls probably the only outlet they have apart from the many prescriptions they’re on like the benzos and painkilers for the pain of being beaten up and the depression and anxiety of not being able to escape their hell-hole of lives, basically being tethered to a s*x pervert their whole life and he’s free to choose more wives if he can afford them, SERIOUSLY women in Islam are just so oppressed beyond words…

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    I never thought in such a short amount of time, in only just over a decade after the Invasion of Iraq, I would be saying that China is drawing more respect from me than the US… well Obama did sure sully your nation in the eyes of the World, even GWB didn’t do this much to embarrass the US, Obomber and bombed and droned more and more (but as I say either of the admins will do the same, the US Gvt has nobody good on the horizon for a long time… feels like Roosevelt and waiting for Reagan to step in… how many years passed until that… 3 decades when the Dems were in power? I’m not exactly up to scratch but my university is the only one with a Centre of US Studies.. the only one in Australia and has a habit of congregating your wicked Ambassadors and tries to get us to pivot to the US as they hypocritically try to pivot to Asia while we’re closer to Asia/China geographically and probably do more trade with China than with the US

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    Denmark…. no hope… China… yes

  • knight

    What a waste of lives we had to fight Communism, and now we have China showing us the ways.

    How communism did have it’s downside, but who was flexing their muscles and for what.

    Good if China can put a stop to the Muslims and bring back sense into these Muslims.

    I love my bacon, and my odd drink of port. At least the Chinese pigs hopefully would be more free range and better tasting than our own.

    • Willing to die for Jesus

      Solzhenitzyn saw this ahead of the collapse of the USSR…. remember his speech at Princeton or Harvard warning he could see Communism coming to the West (the Vietnam anti-war types and the notorious Jane Fonda – Hanoi Jane (she has repented and even turned to Christ, which led to her divorce with the atheist CNN founder Ted Turner)…..

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    It is such a sickening sight to behold whenever you see the ALL-MALE Muslim men prostrating to Satan in public… they think they are giving a witness that is Godly but they know what they’re doing… intimidating, saying we’re going to take over the world/ your country wherever/ whenever they do this, it’s so evil and an eyesore to behold too

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    you should really have replied to me not DeusLoVult, I made him respond that way – he is like you, a non-denomination believer in Jesus Christ as personal Savior and Lord (if you see his posts you will understand); I was the one that got that response out of him by (as a Catholic complaining, and I apologize) about the sadness of the splintering of Christian denominations into many many uncountable denominations… so he is bound to agree with you, it would be the Catholic or Orthodox types to whom you should be directing your remark, but I agree with your sentiment (and so does DLV), it is also refreshing that you – I gather a non-denomination Christian – are into Christian Unity – so am I – Praise the Lord! – Hallelujah! – Lord Jesus Christ forgive me, a Sinner, Amen. God Bless You.

    [P.S. Don’t you see my reply back to DeusLoVult apologizing to him? Non-denominational Christianity is like the Islam which has no leader – just their Al-Azhar “University” which spouts out garbage and your self-appointed evangelical pastors without any training, so Christian leadership is important – Jesus did say He wanted us to Be One so that the World May Believe – Under One Church. Amen]

    • DeusLoVult

      I would love to be part of one of the Orthodox Churches….but they seem so….disorganized, and when I see the Pope supporting gay marriage….it makes the Church seem irreparably damaged. I wish the Church had never split the way it did.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        they are sadly disorganized because of a heresy I forgot the theological jargon for [a Christianity based on ethnicity, eg, all the Orthodox peoples,eg, Russians, Romanians, Serbs, Greeks, Bulgarians, etc, and that they don’t seek to convert because they think the Eastern Orthodox Churches are for their ethnic kin only…. it’s quite similar to the sin of Judaizing… the Catholic Church had this problem for a long time too, eg, Catholicism only for the Italians, French, Southern Germans, Austrians, Polish, Croatian, etc.. in the US, and prevented conversions of others… also don’t confuse “[Eastern] Orthodox” with “Oriental Orthodox” which is what Armenian, Egyptian Orthodox and Ethiopian Orthodox are…it’s based again I think on ethnic issues… I’m sure though not in our time we’ll see a Catholic-Orthodox Unity… there’s just too much uniting us…. and as for the gay marriage thing, yes, I agree he could be tougher, but he isn’t PRo-GAY marriage, the media twisted the “who am I to judge” if you think Pope Francis is pro-gay marriages.. if anything he is pro-Divorce saying Divorcees can accept Communion

        • DeusLoVult

          I don’t like Francis one bit. He alone, disproves papal infallibility. Give me a pope like Urban II and I’ll join in a heartbeat. As I said also, I like the Byzantine model with the emperor being deeply involved in Church affairs.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            it isn’t easy being Pope…too much politics, you have to pander to all sides of politics… in Germany, and Austria, where there are a lot of leftist Catholics, they could stop giving their 1% or so tax donation to their Church if the Pope was too anti-gay, but he’s still not saying gay behavior is okay let alone campaigning for gay marriage… when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires where Argentina has legalized gay marriages, he called it a Satanic attack on the family… don’t think he’s changed his views, just the presentation as now he has to present the whole world’s Catholics and US Catholics are the biggest donators to the Catholic Church, Italy #2, and Germany #3.. or those last 2 might be vice versa

          • DeusLoVult

            He should still try and preach the truth. The Church does not need donations from heretics. God will provide for His Church if it is in need.

          • DeusLoVult

            Politics is another reason I prefer the Byzantine model. There is less worry about pandering to the wants of various sovereigns. You can’t make everyone happy.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            Lol… haven’t heard of the phrase or description when referring to the “Byzantine” nature of X….. it means A LOT OF POLITICS

          • Willing to die for Jesus
          • DeusLoVult

            Thanks for the information. Still, at least the emperor could unite the members of his Church. The popes could never get the Western monarchs to agree on anything.

        • The term is Philetism, and it’s a disgusting heresy indeed. But in this country, most churches are doing a good job with converts. There are a few here and there who want to stay whatever their ethnos is, and for me, they’re a museum piece, not a church.

      • The issue is between you and God. Yes, you are to help your fellow man, but salvation is a personal issue. It is done through your local parish. The Churches are divided in America because of the unique position of having waves of immigrants coming here. That has to be sorted out in order to have a proper Orthodox American Church. Otherwise, we have a collection of ethnic Churches, all together by the Creed and the Councils, but thought of as ethnic hubs an nothing more (even if that’s a dishonest account of what the churches really are).

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    Wow I so wish I had the chance to meet Blessed Mother Teresa, I admire her so very very much, your Grandfather was a very fortunate person. God bless you.

  • edwitness

    China is no good guy. They still practice infanticide. And they still harvest organs from their prisoners to sell them. They crack down on any form of descent. Just ask Nora Lamb. They have underground churches there for the true Christians who live there.
    Blessings:-}

  • knight

    The Great Library of Alexandra may have been partially destroyed by fire as an accident. The Library was rebuilt and finally destroyed by Muslims Caliph Omar ordered that all the books in the library should be destroyed because, as he said “they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous.”

    Knowing Islam, even today they destroy knowledge and history to validate Islam. The amount of information was to great to dort and easiest way I’d to burn the lot.

    http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=370:did-caliph-omar-order-burning-of-alexandria-library&catid=59:kammuna

  • Sister E

    I SECOND THAT MOTION.

  • RodK1975

    AWESOME… I love Dave. Holy Wars and Symphony of Destruction are two of my favorite songs.

  • You obviously have never studied the development of the faith, the Church Fathers, or Eastern Orthodoxy in general. Your opinion might play well in a college campus full of ignorant kids, but it doesn’t quite work in either academia or the history of the Church.

    Consider reading the Church Fathers first before coming to your opinion, and it may well change.

    • Willing to die for Jesus

      I was going to respond to this heathen yesterday, I just ignored him like everyone else, obviously anti-God troll, Anyhow. God bless you.

      • These people show up now and then. This is the quality of our opponent, I’m afraid: http://images.cryhavok.org/d/18358-1/Debate+Me.png

        • Willing to die for Jesus

          hahahaha OMG this is too funny for words, the ugliness in his spirit is manifest outwardly also, or rather his stupidity, I’d upvote but people might think I’m agreeing with this heathen’s message

          • Oh, it’s okay. I used to teach Philosophy of Religion, and would also attend Philosophy classes because of my interest in German thinkers like Kant and Hegel. There were always atheists in he class who would try everything to disrupt a theist’s point of view because they thought it would work. 95% of them don’t know basic Christianity, and therefore, we have nothing to fight about.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            yes I can see the stupidity totally manifested in this person looking so “atheistically righteous”… didn’t know you were a teacher, I teach law at tertiary level in sydney, austl… law schools are in the Arts, Humanities and Social Sciences but not the actual Arts faculties where you have these crazies, unless you’re teaching a course on Medical or Bioethics and Law (and have to addresss all the Life ethics issues which I’m doing my doctorate on, well I think I am , stalling forever… on eugenics, historically, and it’s contemporary manifestation through genetic research etc

          • Oh, I left teaching because academia is ruined, and the tenure system favors idiots over people who study and take their profession seriously. I’ve work a few hats over the years, and I’m sure I’ll wear a few more before all is said and done.

            But, welcome, fellow teacher! Law is a venerable field of study, especially when it comes to Constitutional or Ecclesiastical Law. Best of luck in your endeavors!

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            BIG TIME, IT IS SO PETTY TOO, some end their lives or kill each other over bickering, it’s like being in a traffic jam, but full of Leftists (ironically carrying guns they protest against)

          • Eric

            Rudy, being the child of two school teachers and having a grandfather as a math teacher, I completely agree with your comments on academia. My Dad has faithfully worked as a teacher for 50 years now, and just about two years ago, a school which he worked at for decades cut him loose because he hurt his knee and was out of work for a few months.

            Academia has gone down the toilet, which is the reason why my parents wisely chose to homeschool my brother and I rather than send us to the Public School System, where we would no doubt be subjected to liberalistic theology and Atheism, something neither of my parents wanted.

            My Mom is currently looking to get back into the teaching field–even though she’s aware of all the crap that goes on–to give my Dad a bit of a break. She’s looking at online teaching field, as it appears to be the way education is going.

            The interesting thing is, neither my brother or myself have followed in their footsteps of a job in education, as I myself am working hard at getting my first novel published, and my brother is going to go into the computer industry.

          • VikingCelt

            This is also very true.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            it’s so sad he is revelling in his sins and wearing them literally in print form on T-shirt.. I wonder how far he’d go in a Muslim country? ship him to the Arab lands or Pakistan, or Somalia

        • Steve Smith

          What a schmuck!

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            BIG TIME

          • Atheists are of such poor quality now that it’s hardly worth debating them. If you want to have some fun, read “Atheist Delusions” by David Bentley Hart, or look for him on Youtube. I’m in agreement with him – these people aren’t worth trifling with. They don’t know what they believe, and use the stupid Fundamentalist strawman, a relatively new invention, as a yardstick for 2,000 years of Christianity.

          • Willing to die for Jesus

            goes back to that truism, who said it famously (Chesterton? Muggeridge?) … If you don’t believe IN anything, you’re bound to end up believing ANYTHING

          • Agreed. It seemed 20 or so years ago you could find “well educated Atheist,” though I am sure that is an oxymoron. But point being, they at least had a semblance of cohesion to their arguments. Today most atheist can neither take a realistic look at their own flaws nor analyze where there are holes in their arguments. They are quick to turn to the “You’re stupid for believing what you believe” attack if they get backed into a corner or are confronted with a fact or argument they can’t refute. There is almost an elitist smugness about many of them that tries to portray they have so far advanced beyond the primitive minds of Christians that it is beneath them to sit in any one argument for too long. I think it is because of their self-assured beliefs in themselves that it is true; it is not worth debating them.

        • VikingCelt

          Lol! So true, Rudy.

        • susan

          Is that you Chris?!

  • The words of the Pope don’t play into it. This is a bit like spreading the lie about the Inquisition, which was a secular institution in Spain. It was hardly hijacked, but there were some bad leaders (all of whom were dealt with, though not well enough for the likes of people who will still print anti-Catholic fairy tales).

    • DeusLoVult

      The Spanish Inquisition was 99% myth.

      http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/madden/03481.html

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        which is why Obama loved mentioning it to “critique” Christians…. not one peep criticizing Jihadists of past or PRESENT… they haven’t stopped and getting BOLDER NOW… but Muslim Obama is stuck in the present pandering to his atheist worshippers or what I’ve termed the New Age religion of Obama-worshipping… EBH54 posted a shocking link to school age children WORSHIPPING/SINGING PRAISES TO OBAMA… end times people…and they say no worship or prayer in schools… I guess it only applies to Christian prayer clearly

      • I’m of Spaish stock on my paternal side. I agree. 99% was made up by the English, and may God have mercy on their soul for that.

        • DeusLoVult

          Protestantism is partly what ruined Europe. Enlightenment was the next step.

  • Interesting. I like that allusion.

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    I agree with your sentiment, but with non-denoms who are the Church leaders, to do baptisms, officiate at weddings, funerals… DeusLoVult said you guys just do court/civil marriages, so do just ‘fellow believers’ baptize you and officiate your funerals? as you all consider yourselves “saints”? you don’t have a “set apart” clergy/ holy men?

    • DeusLoVult

      Ministers do the baptisms and perform funeral services.

    • DeusLoVult

      My mistake, I thought you were referring to Protestant Churches. Non-denoms are, just that; there is no organization. Everything you just mentioned must be done through a Church.

      • Willing to die for Jesus

        so fellow believers are all equal and they do all the hatching, matching and dispatching… I get you, no clergy at all, a brotherhood of believers all one and the same, gotcha

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    AMEN You speak the Truth there, God bless you.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Your impartial recitation of history is typical of Atheists – many of the early ‘books’ were preserved by MONKS. Many protestant sects do not accept faith and reason, but the faith from which they apostatized does. Many of history’s most pre-eminent scientists and artists were Catholic – you have no clue how the Catholic Church BUILT Western Civilization.

    • Willing to die for Jesus

      you could be saying this through the loud speakers that the Muslims use to collect their Muslim devil worship to pray to Satan, it won’t get into their atheist Islamo-Leftist heads, many don’t realize how close they are to the Muslims, nor do they criticize the Muslims as they share the same hatred for the CROSS and for our Crucified Savior Jesus Christ

    • Atheist strawmen arguments are worth throwing a match in, and that’s about it. Even a cheap drunk like Christopher Hitchens (whose brother became a devout Anglican) had misgivings in a few interviews regarding faith. Sam Harris is an amateur, and Dawkins won’t debate anyone serious anymore, simply because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

      At the same time, Christians have been poisoned by Fundamentalist idiocy, which makes them easy prey to losers like this. Never, ever allow an atheist to paint your faith for you. They’re too stupid to know the basics. But you have no excuse to be ignorant of your faith of you are a Christian. It’s a damnable position to be in.

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    AMEN!

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    thanks for sharing, well I definitely consider you Christian brethren, all Trinitarian Christians who aren’t part of the faddish (truly apostate) moves to be making room for church blessed “gay marriages” that is just pain sick and angering to God

  • Willing to die for Jesus

    it’s already been violated so much by the Muslim occupier of the WH it means nothing anymore, none of the US constitution does

    • retona4

      Who would that be?

  • knight

    Who is casting the first stones, not Christians, but Muslims in many ways.

  • VikingCelt

    I’ve heard that one before. It’s quite a sweet story, really. That man was so kind.

  • Uhh, have you read my other posts at all?

    • Ha, he found you out. You’ve been an atheist hiding in plain sight all this time.

  • Both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches have been caring for the poor, sick, widowed, invalid and confined 1,900 years before the anti-Trinitarian Salvation Army came to be.

  • Grandmere

    Uh oh! Get off at the next exit and backtrack about 2 comments.

  • Grandmere

    I agree with you 100%

    • Vinny is full of sage wisdom. We need more like him here.

  • To too many, they are. You find a lot of wisdom in them if you take the time to talk with them. They may end up showing you your own deficiencies.

    People can learn from anyone at any time, if they choose to.

  • Can you site specific examples of, “older scriptures being found that contradict the Bible?”

    This appears to be three thoughts, but can you be more specific about, 1. “another gospel out there,” 2. “early times those in power put down everyone who disagreed with them and killed off those who were different,” 3. “burning of all of the books that disagreed.” What exactly are you talking about here? Can you give specifics?

    Finally, what archaeology and where, are you referencing, which is showing modern interpretations of the bible to be incorrect? How “modern”?

  • Or Maximos the Confessor, Symeon the New Theologian, Reinhold Niebuhr, Vladimir Lossky, etc etc…

  • Or Maximos the Confessor, Symeon the New Theologian, Reinhold Niebuhr, Vladimir Lossky, etc etc…

  • Very much my pleasure, Marie!

  • Sometimes. But even a bum is an icon of Christ.

  • SJvet

    It’s time for another Crusade. Otherwise, they’ll kill us and take over.

  • Where?

    Here is the problem with debating atheists: they use the Fundamentalist/Evangelical paradigm, the weakest and least intellectual in Christianity. They have no cle how much philosophy, metaphysics and logic are involved in the faith. They know almost nothing about church doctrine or its development. To deal with an atheist is to deal with a trash collector regarding nuclear physics.

    Problem #2: most American Christians don’t know their faith, either. They are led y boobs who are incapable of defending themselves against low-grade atheist ad hominems. This is why so many children of these groups of Christians are seeing their children turn into heretics and brain-dead atheist drones.

    The atheists who come here last 1-2 rounds and realize they’re not going to sway anyone who is serious. I wish more Christians here would be as prepared as a few of us are.

  • Indeed. They know what they’re doing. And tenure needs to go.

  • You’ve never been to Ghana, then. Zambia is also doing quite well, and Botswana is beginning to surge. There are well run countries, and in the cities, they tend to do okay if they were under English administration. Where you have problems are in places like Nigeria, and the Eastern half of Africa where Arab conquest did tremendous damage to the population, as did the poor job done by both Germany and Belgium in their colonies. Expect Africa to explode this century in a good way, as the middle class is beginning to grow.

  • Africa is a continent of 60 countries. People of African ancestry are, as a nation, perhaps the 20th richest ‘country ‘ as a grouping on Earth. By your logic, Scots and Irish should also be bottom feeders because of what life is like in the Appalachian Mountains.

    Separate the root culture from the Democratic Party’s hideous influence on their culture. Also, consider traveling. You may find civilized people out there.

  • Never in Detroit, but certainly in Ouagadougou or Addis Ababa.

    As for your travels, I’ve spent nearly 20 years in motion. 44 countries, usually around a month at a time, except for Macedonia, where I stay for a year at a time. So, on this point, we neutralize each other.

    Do you, then, think that blacks have no hope or are too inferior to become good Christians? If yes, then that’s your right, though I disagree. If no, then be out there remonstrating them.

    We probably agree more than disagree on many points. But don’t compare American blacks to Africans. Their trajectories are as different as a Frenchman and an Eskimo.

  • See Ethiopians and Nigerians. In this case, there are massive differences. Cultures are radically different, to the point where the Ethiopians are considered venerable, while Nigeria had no written history until the Muslims and British came. So, there’s but one example.

  • We agree in terms of the cretins posing as pastors. Of course, we have those in the Protestant world, too. The whole system was based on fraud, but at least there are some men who try hard to be godly and feed their sheep to the best of their knowledge. It’s a start.

    I don’t think they’re too different at all. In the middle class areas where I’m currently residing, they are not only contributing heavily (and in great numbers), they also have a resentment toward the riffraff in the inner cities who won’t bother to adjust. The mindset is changing rapidly, and they will continue to grow as a group. Whether white America will help them along is debatable, and will be answered locally, not in one massive clump.

  • Going out into any sticks is dicey. I’ll stick to Ouagadougou.

  • It made these countries rich, not great. We see the fruits of it today. As for destroying places, it hardly did so. It, in fact, gave hope to places which were utterly hopeless before.

  • Surely, you jest…

  • You make an utterly false comparison, and don’t realize what little American ‘Christianity’ has to do with actual doctrine. If you’re going to try to peddle the idea of America being founded on Christian principles and is still a Christian nation, we need not go further. It’s not, and it never was. If you tolerate Gnosticism, Deism, the so-called Enlightenment and other values which replaced God with Mammon, you can keep that. The so-called Catholicism you mention in Latin America hasn’t been extant in centuries, as secular government after secular government destroyed the Catholic Church’s influence starting with Spain’s and Portugal’s pullout of the region centuries ago. What is left is a disconnected mess. This is strictly due to poor management, and nothing at all to do with right doctrine. I take major issue with Eugen Weber, who promoted the idea of the so-called ‘Protestant work ethic’, who never once bothered discussing either the contributions of the Salamanca School of Economics (The Juan Mariana Institute still continues these ideas, and preserved Spain through the worst of its inept leadership, providing models for people like Ludwig von Mises to develop a sane version of libertarian thinking).

    You’re probably a nice guy, so I’m not bickering with you. But I do insist you read a lot more deeply into history.

  • Festal Letter 39 of Athanasius, which was written around 367, was one of the earliest writings which declared what Christians today would call the New Testament cannon. He was a bishop in Alexandria, which puts him in the east, not in Rome. His letter pretty clearly spelled out which books the church had considered “canonical” which are the same books we today call “canonical.” Many of the books people claim were kept out of the bible are still books Christians read and reference. Even Athanasius himself said these extra-biblical or as some term it, “deutero-canonical” books were useful for instruction. There are many commentaries and books Christians find useful and refer to, but there is a difference between them and scripture. I believe Rome put their stamp on the same canonical books around 397. Before there was even a division between Rome and the East, the cannon of scripture had been declared and set. So to say Rome is responsible for that I believe over states or rather misstates the facts.

  • Protestant is a late term, 16th century in fact. I don’t think you find anyone calling themselves “protestant” prior to the Protestant Reformation. That is where they got the name. Besides, their protest was against Rome, not against the church at large. The church (and non-church) alike will argue for ages to come as to how many were killed during the Crusades and especially the inquisitions.

  • Christianity probably has one of the largest diversity of beliefs living side by side than any other religion in the world. Go check a phone book and look at all of the denominations. How many divisions are there in Islam? For the most part it is Sunni and Shi-ia. In India, they may have millions of gods, but for the most part Hinduism is Hinduism. Since the protestant reformation, there are thousands of denominations, plenty of plurality to go around for everyone. If you don’t like a church in America, feel free to start your own. Someone will eventually attend. Of all the bishops that stood with Arius at the Council of Nicaea, only one other remained with him at the end of the council. All the rest denounced Arianism and turned back to the Church. Whether the books were burned or not is of no consequence, the Arian Heresy exists in many forms today and is still live and well. There are plenty of Christians today who still believe in vegetarianism and even reincarnation. In fact today you can be a Christian and not even believe Jesus rose from the dead. Some church somewhere will believe that heresy right along with them. Heresy is seldom seen for what it is in close proximity to the heresy itself. As time and distance are gained, heresy becomes much clearer. I think Paul is clear, something like vegetarianism wouldn’t and shouldn’t be a problem for the church. He was clear about not disputing over matters of food. What you and I choose to eat as we sit at a table together is not an issue of salvation, unless of course I destroy your faith by condemning your food. Then Paul said I am condemned because I should not destroy another’s faith over issues of food. However, an issue of reincarnation is another story, for we will not allow anything to destroy the glorious resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    Why must Christians constantly be put under pressure to put up with and endure heresy? Look at what has happened to our faith, because we are often judged as being “judgmental.” Look at the thousand’s of denominational splits who all say they have the truth. Speaking of Stalin, look at what happened to the Orthodox Church in Russia during the Bolshevik revolution. How many hundreds of thousands of Bishops and laymen became martyrs. The Iron Curtain crushed Orthodox and Protestants under it’s weight. Crush a rose in your hand sometime. What do you get? The pleasing smell of it’s aroma. This is what happened to the church, under the crushing weight of persecution a pleasing aroma arose and spread. Putting everything on Rome is another late invention and it robs people of knowing the real truth. Thanks for your thoughts.

  • US Army (retired)

    The ONLY islamic contribution to mankind has been DEATH!