The Popes Are The Greatest Warriors Against Islam In World History And They Will Lead The Fight To Destroy The Muslim Heresy In The Last Days

(Shoebat Sunday Special) Many years ago I read my first Chick tract online. For those who have never heard of Jack Chick, he is an anti-Catholic fundamentalist Christian who has created a series of well-drawn comics about “true Christianity.” A cornerstone of his tracts is his outright spiteful and even irrational anti-Catholic ideas, so much that the man literally re-invents historical events as he pleases, shaping them to his own liking and then presenting it to his readers as fact when it is in reality a kind of twisted nightmare from the recesses of his mind.

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I have several “favorite” Chick tracts, and one of them is his tract on Islam, in which he purports that Islam was a conspiracy created by the Catholic Church using Muhammad’s wife Khadijah’s cousin Waraqa bin Nawfal as “Vatican Agents.” You have to read the tract in order to believe it, or you can read Jack Chick’s graphic novel The Prophet which expounds even deeper on this same strange idea.

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I am still surprised that it could even exist in print because the story is so outlandish and ridiculous since it is a blatant lie. Indeed, anybody with a fraction of an education, who can simply pick up a high school history textbook can tell you clearly otherwise. Even the Muslims will tell you the same.

 

Or is it? I have heard some people say today that given Pope Francis’ conciliatory tone towards Islam and the Muslim world that the Vatican somehow “accepts” Islam as something good. This is aggravated by the fact that many priests, bishops, and even cardinals have not only refused to criticize Islam and Muslims when they commit violence, but they have even spoken positively about Islam. These same critics then say that the recent Pope John Paul II only proved this when he kissed a copy of the Quran many years ago. There have always been anti-Catholics, but this pope’s actions has brought them out of the proverbial woodwork again, and in this case for a good reason- because while their particular interpretations of Christianity are either off target or outright wrong, Islam is not good, and the Pope as well as his fellow subordinates have no place in praising it.

 

Now all of these points as facts unto themselves about recent Vatican history and Islam are undeniable. However, this brings us to an important question: What did Popes say and do about Islam and Muslims?

 

There have been 196 Popes from Muhammad’s death until now (Honorius to Francis). Now it would take a very long time to go over the life, histories, and experiences each pope has had with Islam. However, make no mistake about it, not only is the Catholic Church the greatest enemy of Islam throughout history, but the Popes of the Catholic Church are the greatest leaders in bringing Christians of all denominations together to fight against the Muslim antichrists of each age and, when followed, to bring Christians to victory over the Muslims. That is also to say that what you see happening today with Pope Francis is not only an anomaly, but in direct contradiction- even against the very teachings- of the popes over the past 1400 years.

 

A brief survey of these 196 men reveal that 52- just a little over 25%- have been directly involved in fighting against Islam and Muslims in some form or another. I went through and compiled the following list of information about each pope, giving their title, their years of reign, and what they specifically did with Islam and Muslims, as well as any historical context that may have been present. What I found even surprised me, and Islamic studies is my specialty, since there were not only so many popes involved in this struggle, but the degree to which they were and continued to be involved for many centuries.

 

I emphasize that my research into this topic is merely a survey. I hardly had time to look into the “meat” of the matter for each man because there was so much that it could literally be one (or several) books. Everything here can be found in a simple Internet search.

 

Simple? Yes. But that is the point. People always speak about “defending” the Faith against attacks from people who make slanderous libelous statements against the Catholic Faith. The fact is that, as is listed below, the truth speaks for itself. The popes are the greatest fighters against Islam in the history of Christendom, and here is why:

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Pope Donus (676-678) is the first pope that we know about who did something that I can find on record. When the Islamic conquests were taking place, many Christians fled their ancestral homelands in the Middle East to Europe and Sicily. Many of these people were monks because Islam has a particular dislike of them. He gave Nestorian monks- people who belong to a sect condemned as heretical by the Church- fleeing Muslim conquests of Syria refuge in Rome.

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St. Gregory III, the Syrian who directed the defeat of the Muslims in Spain behind the scenes

During the Islamic conquests of the Eighth century, the popes were intimately involved in both the spiritual and military struggle with Ishmael’s armies. St. Gregory II (715-731) prayed and called for Christians to take up spiritual arms against the Muslims, and is attributed to slowing the Muslim advance by his prayers and those who answered him. St. Gregory III (731-741) continued the mission of his predecessor, but also took up the military struggle against Islam when he petitioned and convinced the great Frankish general Charles Martel to fight the Muslims at Tours, France, in 732 in the “battle that saved western civilization” from Islamization and drove the Muslims back over the Pyrenees into Spain and kept them there for centuries. His successor, St. Zachary (741-752), noticed the increase in the slave trade with the arrival of Islam, and he realized that even Christians, especially those in Venice, were involved in selling other Christians to Muslims. Horrified at this act, he immediately banned Venetian and all Christian merchants from selling slaves to the Muslims and not only that, but he ransomed the slaves they were going to sell. His successor, Stephen II (752-757), recognized the continual threat posed by Islamic armies, and as such he petitioned the Franks for further action against Islam. Not only that, but he also worked with the Byzantines to coordinate a Franco-Byzantine alliance against Islam. This would be one of many precursory events to the Crusades.

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St. Zachary

As is well documented, wherever Islam goes slavery follows, and specifically the horrible institution of sex slavery, as that was the primary reason for it. It was Pope Adrian I (772-795) who not only maintained St. Zachary’s anti-slavery position, calling the Muslims the “unspeakable race of Saracens”, but he aggressively petitioned the Franks to continue in their fight against Islam and not relent in the least because of the absolute danger which is continued to pose.

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St. Leo IV

Tensions remained between the Muslim and Catholic world for the next half century until it exploded in 846. The pope of that time, Sergius II (844-847) was severely criticized not because he was against Islam, but because he did not take any precautionary measures to prepare militarily for the Muslim attacks in 846. After his death, Pope St. Leo IV (847-855) not only performed spiritual war against the Muslims, but he aggressively prepared militarily and when the Muslims invaded again, he himself went into battle against the Muslims in person at the Battle of Ostia and help lead that Catholics to victory.

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St. Nicholas I

With the Muslims defeated in Italy and driven away for now, the Pope then began rebuilding Italy and preparing it for the next attack. This included military preparations as well as rebuilding the churches destroyed by the Muslims, as they were a common target of assault due to the hatred which Islam so intensely possesses for the Faith. His work was continued by Pope Benedict III (855-858) who directed repairs to churches damaged by the Muslims in the city of Rome, Popes St. Nicholas I (858-867) and Adrian II (867-872), who likewise followed in St. Leo IV’s example and fought against the Muslims in southern Italy with Emperor Louis II.

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Pope Marinus I, who banned any social or economic intercourse between Christians and Muslims

Unfortunately, while the popes were working very hard against Islam’s advances, there were many fellow Christians who literally did NOTHING. In fact, they were even forming alliances with the Muslims an fighting against fellow Christians. The Popes were the first ones to combat this, beginning with John VIII (872-882), who banned Christians from allying with Muslims and even proved his example by fighting against those people. His successor in Pope Marinus I (882-884) reinforced John VII’s ban on alliances and even extended it to merely conducting any business with Muslims.

 

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St. Adrian III, who established alliances in the East and West to fight the Muslims

All of this work was very important, because by separating the Muslim alliances with unbelieving and even apostate Catholics, the popes purified the Church and prepared the way for a century of continual war against the sons of Ishmael. Pope St. Adrian III (884-885) summoned alliances with Frankish ruler Charles the Fat to fight the Muslims in Spain. Since his papacy was short lived, his successor Stephen V (885-891) worked with the Byzantines to coordinate naval assaults against Muslim targets and especially Muslim pirates, which resulted in a countless number of Christian slaves being freed from a sure life of horror. Pope John X (914-928) himself went into battle against the Muslims at the Battle of Garigliano and lead the Church to victory. His successor Leo VI (928-929) continued to fight against the Muslim raiders, and even taught that Christians who die fighting Muslims will go to Heaven. In addition, later successors, such as Benedict VII (974-983)  pushed for missions to Muslims in Tunisia and North Africa.

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Bl. Urban II, who initiated the first crusade

The eleventh century was the turning point for the Popes. They had recognized and had been fighting militarily against the Muslim for four centuries at this point, but they realized the problem was much deeper. If the Islamic threat was to be effectively destroyed, then the Islamic heresy had to be uprooted in its native Arabian land and specifically, the Holy Land. Pope Sergius IV (1009-1012) issued first bull calling for the expulsion of Muslims from the Holy Land following the horrific persecutions of Caliph Al-Hakam in Egypt against the Christians. Pope Alexander II (1061-1073) called for a crusade against Spanish Muslims, and his successor St. Gregory VII (1073-1085) planned for the first crusade. However, this call would not be realized until the reign of Bl. Urban II (1088-1099), who issued the formal call at Clermont in November 1095.

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Bl. Eugene III, who called for the second crusade

As Europe entered the next two hundred years of crusades to the Holy Land, all popes played some role by the fact of the existence of the movement. However, some popes stood out more than others during this period. It was Paschal II (1099-1118) and Honorius II (1124-1130) who gave their approval to the Knights Templar Catholic military order. Bl. Eugene III (1145-1153) called for the second crusade, Clement III (1187-1191) called for the third crusade, Celestine III (1191-1198) confirmed the Teutonic knights as a crusader order, Innocent III (1189-1216) pushed for both crusades against Muslims in Spain as well as supported initially the fourth crusade, and Honorius III (1216-1227) instituted the fifth crusade.

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Bl. Gregory X, who tried to form a Catholic-Mongol alliance

In addition to forging crusades, the Popes also worked aggressively to form alliances to fight the Muslims with non-European powers. Five successive popes, Innocent IV (1243-1254), Alexander IV (1254-1261), Clement IV (1264-1268), Bl. Gregory X (1271-1276), and John XXI (1276-1277) tried to forge an alliance with the Mongolian hordes in order to create a unified front through which to confront the Muslims. Unfortunately, this crusade never materialized. Nevertheless, there were some good fruits of this, as this also marked the first instance of massive Catholic missions to the east. These men sent the first missionaries, but in the years after the destruction of the crusader states in 1291, the Pope pressed even more aggressively for missionary work in the east. Two of such popes were Nicholas IV (1288-1292) and Clement V (1305-1314). They worked extensively with Bl. John of Montecorvino, a missionary to converted over ten thousand Muslims and pagans to the Catholic Faith throughout China, Central Asia, Pakistan, and Iran.

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Callixtus III, who instituted the ringing of Church bells at noon so that Christians remember to pray for the Crusaders to Belgrade and in perpetual memory of their victory in 1456

As the Church moved into the 15th century, the situation became more desperate in Europe with the rise of a new and dangerous power- the Ottoman Empire. The “Turkish menace” as it was called threatened to overtake all of Europe and posed a true existential threat to Christendom. Realizing this danger, the Popes stepped into action. Boniface IX (1389-1404) tried for a crusade to help Byzantine Empire, but the corruption of the Emperors of that time proved to be its greatest obstruction. Martin V (1417-1431) organized a crusade to North Africa and successfully freed Christian slaves captured by Muslim pirates. His successor Eugene IV (1431-1447) organized a crusade to Bulgaria and to Syria to help Christians there against the Muslims. Pope Nicholas V (1447-1455) issued a bull saying that Christians are to attack Muslims and Islamic territories wherever they may be found. Callixtus III (1455-1458) pushed for a crusade to Serbia, which prevented the Islamization of Belgrade in 1456 and it was he who instituted the ringing of church bells at noon, so that Christians everywhere would remember to pray for the crusaders as well as to remember this victory. His successor Pius II (1458-1464) attempted to convert Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II (“The Conqueror”), but when that failed, he continued the wars against the Turks, this time supporting the Albanian Muslim turned Catholic convert Iskander Beg, known as Skanderbeg. His successor Sixtus IV (1471-1484) executed a brief crusade to Smyrna against the Turks, and following him Innocent VIII (1484-1492) tried to organize a greater action but to no avail.

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St. Pius V, who defeated the Muslims at Lepanto

Following this period, the Pope’s actions directed specifically against Islam decreased because of another threat: Protestantism. The Protestant movement, which was funded in part by the Ottomans, was particularly devastating because it smashed the union of Christendom, which was already weakened, and thus set Catholics versus apostate Catholics against each other and prevented the Church from dealing effectively with the Ottomans. Nevertheless, the Turkish threat remained real, and in spite of the difficulties, the Popes still had to and did successfully confront it. Pope Adrian VI (1522-1523) continued to call for war against the Turks. When the Ottoman navy, the most powerful in the world at its time, threatened to overrun Christendom, it was St. Pius V (1566-1572) who called for a Catholic League to confront the Ottomans at Lepanto in 1571, where they won a resounding victory that permanently disabled the Ottoman Empires absolute dominance of the Mediterranean.

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Bl. Innocent XI, who defeated the Muslims at Vienna

While the fighting continued, it would be nearly a century later that the Turkish menace would again pose an existential thread to Christendom with the invasion of Eastern Europe pushing into Central Europe. Pope Clement IX (1667-1669) worked against the Turkish naval powers, while his successor Clement X (1670-1676) helped fund Poland’s war against the Ottoman raids into Polish and Austrian territory. Yet it would not be until Bl. Innocent XI (1676-1689), who finally , having seen the Ottoman siege of Vienna in 1683, convince yet again a coalition of Polish, German, and Italian Catholics to confront and defeat the Ottomans at the Battle of Vienna in which not only did they emerge victorious, but the Ottoman Empire and Muslim world went into a period of decline for several centures.

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Bl. Pius IX

From the 18th century onward, there is little in the way of Catholic military action against the Muslims, since most of the work was spent in missions to Muslim lands. Innocent XIII (1721-1724) was possibly one of the last pope to militarily assist Catholics against the Turks, in this case on this island of Malta assisted Malta against Turkish attacks. But by the 19th century and with the conflicts in Europe, the Popes were mostly reduced to diplomatic work with Muslims, such as Bl. Pius IX’s (1846-1878) and Benedict V’s (1914-1922) attempt to assist the Christians in fleeing the Ottoman Empire in light of the impending genocide the Turks were planning that culminated in the murders of 1917.

 

This is just a highly annotated history of what happened.

 

Now, dear readers, you may be aware that I have certain disagreements with Pope Francis’ personal opinions for various reasons, his statements on Islam being among them because, as I hopefully have demonstrated, they are (a) incorrect so far as Catholic teaching is concerned, and (b) set a poor example for fellow Catholics and non-Catholics who see his actions.

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So when you see Pope Francis speak highly of Islam and praise Muslim refugees and even worse, engage in nonsense, know this:

 

The Faith (as always) remains intact.

This man’s personal views are wrong.

An elementary history of the Church shows this. His own predecessors would likely condemn him for heresy on account of his sayings and actions about Islam. Anybody with eyes to read and ears to hear, and who reads works other than by people who cannot cite historical documents (such as Jack Chick) will know the truth, that the Popes were always the greatest warriors against Islam, and it will be a future Pope who will lead the Church into spiritual and physical combat with the Muslims to drive them back to the same lands they came from.

 

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  • mrd83b

    I hope Francis drops dead of a heart attack today … Piss on him for his Muslim kowtowing..I do not consider him a pope..he is not a pope..he is appointed by spineless rat infiltrators like himself ..maybe I’ll become a Catholic when there is a real pope

    • Tom_mcewen

      I hope Jesus drops dead of a heart attack today… Piss on him for for his kowtowing to the Temple and the chief priests. Is that what you meant to say?

      • mrd83b

        Jesus told them they were hypocrites and would say the same to the Muslims not wash their feet he would wash the feet of the faithful

      • Lenn

        What a sick, blasphemic remark!! Shame on you! How dare you compare a ridiculous pope that kisses the feet of moslems and declare that islam is a religion of peace(!) to Jesus Christ!? The Bible talks very seriously about those that blaspheme.

        • Tom_mcewen

          Definitely a protestant not reading the context, blasphlemy is defined how? Words mean things, context means a frame of reference, history is the bridge to understand context, words, definitions, the church, the apostles, the apostolic fathers, the bible and finally The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Give them a try.

      • mikifenn

        Are you saying that the Pope is Jesus??

    • Kelly ann

      The Pope dont need your curses, he has been busy creating them all on his own. He needs much prayer.

      • mrd83b

        I agree it’s just frustrating sometimes.. It truly is hard to pray for the enemy .. I really hope Francis changes and becomes a real pope instead of a spineless puppet

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Careful of what you wish for – if we are commanded to love our enemies, ….

  • mrd83b

    But thank God for all those righteous popes if it weren’t for them we would either not exist or be slaves to Muslim savages …or worse yet Wed all be related to them because they would have raped every woman on earth …they truly do belong in hellfire … The stories of rape and murder make my blood boil

  • susan

    Truly, as I look around Europe today, who exactly would the Pope be able to rally in a fight against islam? Perhaps the Pope’s only hope at this point is to pray for conversion of sinners and wait for the inevitable.

    • RTF

      I truly don’t want to criticise him unfairly and don’t want to be concerned, however I have to say some of the things that have been reported make me feel very uneasy indeed. I also keep thinking back to the resignation of Pope Benedict xvi which just seemed very bizarre.

      However you make an interesting point there: On one hand I agree about who is there to rally: I was horrified by that research the other day that said 9 out of 10 young Italians would convert if it came to it.

      However on the other hand I think the Pope being truthful about Islamism would be a golden opportunity to bring people who clearly see the evil of islamism to Catholicism.

      • FF

        About the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI, always comes to my mind (and not only me) the words of Anna-Katarina Emmerick:
        “I saw also the relationship between the two popes…”
        [Catholic Prophecies, ves Dupont, p.60, (53.1)]
        It was written in the context of a decaying of the church, both internal (apostasy, lukewarm) and external.

    • The really slim shady

      Think this may be the most profound and realistic statement I ever read on here.

  • Tom_mcewen

    I wonder sometimes that Pope Francis wants to show that he didn’t harm a blade of grass under their Muslim feet, that his murder is of a innocent man, whose blood cries out from the ground. He hasn’t been murdered yet, but he did say his time would be short and the limit he stated is short now. There will be a war or death of Europe, either way it is death.

    • susan

      I’m quite certain he understands the times. See how the Orthdox and Catholic are reaching out to one another after all these years. 🙂

  • Catbr

    There is some speculation that Pope Benedict is still actually the pope. Benedict used to say the truth about islam when he was pope which didn’t sit well with islam. Francis was brought in by the Vatican to ease the rising violent tensions of islam against the church. Francis has a good enough religious background I think, but is being told what to say by some Vatican (Islamic also perhaps) authorities who are pulling his strings. These are only my own thoughts, but they make sense. The first words out of Francis’s mouth were “Pray for me.” I think his life is in grave danger.
    The problem with Catholics, other Christians and liberals (maybe) is they are believing everything the Islamic leaders are telling them (islam is the religion of peace), fearful of the truth (islam wants to rule the world and destroy (christianity), as though accepting the lies will make the truth disappear.

    • 1Bobby8

      I never thought about that, but do you think Francis was brought in to “appease” and give Muslims enough rope to hang themselves?

      • Catbr

        That would be good. But so far this doesn’t seem to be happening. Islam has been around for a very long time and hasn’t disappeared through their own violence and brutality. If it weren’t for their brutality islam would have fizzled away centuries ago.

      • Kelly ann

        no..
        he is brought in for an entirely different purpose. and that purpose appears to be the underminding of the faith.

        https://akacatholic.com/amoris-laetitia-keep-your-distance-though-chewie-but-dont-look-like-youre-trying-to-keep-your-distance/

        • 1Bobby8

          Very interesting articles. In other words confuse the flock with half truths to undermine Church doctrine…He’s to the Catholic Church what Obama is to America.

          • Two2trees

            Awesome parallel.

            Consider just 30 years ago,

            John Paul II & Ronald Reagan

            Today :

            Francis & Obama.

  • 1Bobby8

    They’re are a lot of Jack Chicks around, especially if you go to sites such as WND, who believe in every psuedo history if it fits their bias.
    “People do not believe lies because they have to but because they want to.” ~Malcolm Muggeridge

  • AnthonyM

    Andrew, thanks for writing our Sunday Special. It is good to see the actions taken by various Popes against the Islam. I was not aware of these actions.

    May I make one request on formatting? A few extra line feeds, or even a horizontal bar would help visually separate the sections, and associate the picture with the proper section. Now it is somewhat confusing for me.

  • richinnameonly

    I think the premise of the article is obviously correct. In my mind it begs the questions of how or why was this current Pope chosen, and is there any expectation of radical changes from him?

    • AnthonyM

      I believe it was, as the process always has been, under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We just can’t see as God sees. What’s the saying, ‘God writes straight with crooked lines’? So we often have to trust were human knowledge or understanding ends.

    • Vinny Zee

      It’s 87 pages, but if you’re interested in reading this it has some interesting points. It was written by His Eminence, the Metropolitan of Piraeus, Seraphim, and His Eminence, the Metropolitan of Dryinoupolis, Andrew, both of the Church of Greece. It was sent to Pope Francis on April 10, 2014.

      http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/epistle-to-pope-francis.pdf

      • richinnameonly

        Thanks for the post, Vinny.
        I’ve too many duties right now to allow me to read the whole thing, but I have breezed over all 87 pages and gotten the gist of them. I assumed that subsequent to 1054 the Orthodox Church had no responsibility or desire to follow the Pope, but I never knew that they were so free with their criticism of “Papism”. They take him to task on many, many fronts leaving no doubt that in their eyes he is clearly in sin and in need of repentance. I also saw the theory on why Francis was chosen, having to do with emergence of South American countries. In light of all this I find it interesting that the Pope cannot be, let’s say, impeached. He would have to voluntarily surrender the office, as Benedict did. I’m sure many wonder what God has in store as they follow the moves of Francis.

      • Grandmere

        I have read 60 pages so far. Wow! This is some heavy stuff. I will be studying this document. Thanks, Vinny.

        • hehehe, you will get into hair splitting arguments like the “Filioque” “procession of the Holy Spirit also from the Son” … and that the papacy is not biblical … arguments ad nauseam. Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the disciples. These guys wanted something to split hairs and so they said that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and NEVER the Son…

          You will hear Filioque Filioque Filioque Filioque till everyone drops dead.

          So lets all have a sword fight.

          Of course, like everyone else, find Vatican II and write critiques. We all agree that there are issues on Vatican II that are not good.

          The East are a bunch of nit-pickers and are a divided bunch and is why they lost to Islam. Look up “Better the Turban than the Tiara”. Greece turned socialist. Rome is falling away. And all we do is find more hairs and fight over power. Rome was the center of Christianity and these guys wanted Constantinople. Okay. Where is Constantinople now?

          “Papal infallibility”

          This is a stretch. Popes are fallible. Better research this since it takes pages.

          “Baptism by sprinkling ”

          I suggest you study the Didache. It was before 1054 split. It was the oldest instruction manual and pouring water was fine.

          “the use of unleavened bread ”

          They want you to use leavened bread.

          This is nonsense. They started wars over leavened or unleavened bread.

          “the transforming of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ with the words of institution rather than at the invocation of the Holy Spirit as well as the doctrine of transubstantiation …”

          Hair splitting.

          • Стефан Евгений

            So, you are making fun of us. I, personally thought you were better than that. I never made fun of Catholics belief, I accepted that we saw things from another perspective, and left it at that.

          • Grandmere

            This was an eye opening experience for me Yevgenii. I knew about some of the divide but not in such detail. Like Vinny, I have a rational and open mind in these things. I did find that comment rather passive-aggressive. Uh,oh. I am gonna have to go on a long pilgrimage now. How is the weather in SA? I may need to hole up over there until the bombs stop flying.

          • Grandmere

            I was born curious. I like to hear both sides of a debate.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Here is some background, and how all this mess started. Lay it at the feet of Charlemagne.
            http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.03.en.franks_romans_feudalism_and_doctrine.01.htm

          • Grandmere

            Whew! I finished Part 1 and this is not for the faint hearted. And people think Henry VIII was a troublemaker. I have a nice little work about the Church in England and it is a walk on the beach compared to this.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Henry VIII used the same systome that Charlemane established, brute babaric butchering to get your way.

          • Grandmere

            I knew quite a bit about Charlemagne but little about his place in church history.

          • Стефан Евгений

            There is a reason why we are pigheaded, Union with Rome got us no where, they can’t go back and change things.they declaired their churche’s infalalbility carved it in stone. the only thing carved in stone in Orthodoxy is the Creed and the Liturgy, every thing else is up for debate. HERE is a old article the links don’t work, but is wort a read.
            I love talking to Anglicans, least we don’t but heads.
            http://www.oocities.org/trvalentine/orthodox/workinprog_filioque.html

          • Grandmere

            Well, there is a difference between being dogmatic and being diplomatic. Anglicans have survived on diplomacy. LOL

          • racarrera

            As a historian by training, that’s precisely why I like the East (and falafels, and babaganoush, and…)

          • Стефан Евгений

            First off, I think that the Roman Catholic Church, became a victom of power politics, Roman Catholics never created the filioque it was Germanic power that forced it on the church.
            Here are parts from a lecture by Fr John S. Romanides.

            Charlemagne had also caused the Filioque to be added to the Frankish Creed, without consulting the pope. When the controversy over this addition broke out in Jerusalem, Charlemagne convoked the Council of Aachen in 809 and decreed that this addition was a dogma necessary for salvation. With this fait accomplit under his belt, he tried to pressure Pope Leo III into accepting it.[ 9 ]

            Leo rejected the Filioque not only as an addition to the Creed, but also as dogma, claiming that the Fathers left it out of the Creed neither out of ignorance, nor out of negligence, nor out of oversight, but on purpose and by divine inspiration.

            What Leo is clearly saying, but in diplomatic terms, is that the addition of the Filioque to the Creed is a heresy. The Franks were a too dangerous a presence in Papal Romania, so Leo acted as Hadrian had done before him. Leo did not reject the Filioque outside of the Creed, since there is in the West Roman tradition an Orthodox Filioque which was, and is, accepted as such by the East Romans until today. However, this West Roman Orthodox Filioque could not be added to the Creed where the term procession had a different meaning. In other words in a wrong context.”
            http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.03.en.franks_romans_feudalism_and_doctrine.01.htm
            ********************************************************
            It is clear that Pope Hadrian and Pope Leo III did the most that they could to stop the filioque from being inserted in the Creed. Here is a reply to Charlemaine from Pope Hadrian.

            Pope Adrian sent the Acts of the Seventh Ecumenical Synod to Charlemagne who responded with a list of objections. The very first objection deals with the Filioque:

            That Tarsius [the Patriarch of Constantinople] is not correct in professing that the Holy Spirit proceeds not from the Father and the Son, according to the faith of the Nicene Creed, but that he proceeds from the Father through the Son.

            Pope Adrian responded to the objection:

            We have already shown that the divine dogmas of this Council are irreprehensible … For should anyone say he differs from the Creed of the above-mentioned Council, he risks differing with the Creed of the Six Holy Councils, since these Fathers spoke not according to their own opinions but according to the holy definitions previously laid down. In the acts of the Sixth Holy Council it is written among other things that “this Creed had been sufficient for the perfect knowledge and confirmation of religion.”

            Pope Leo went so far that he had silver shields or tablets put up In Saint Peters. With the Orthodox Creed in Greek and Latin .

            he makes it quite clear that adding the Filioque to the Symbol of Faith was illicit. Pope Leo III order the Franks to remove the Filioque, and

            He took other measures. He considered the problem so serious that he had “two silver shields” engraved with the original Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed in both Greek and Latin and then placed on each side of the Confession of St. Peter. He did this, according to Anastasius Bibliothecarius, (PL 128, 1238) “for the love he bore to the Orthodox Faith and out of care for its preservation.” Photius
            refers to these shields, even though he mistakenly thought that both
            shields were engraved in Greek. The existence of these shields is confirmed by the later testimony of Peter Damian, Peter Lombard, and Peter Abelard. Recent historical research has also confirmed the historicity of these shields.
            http://www.oocities.org/trvalentine/orthodox/workinprog_filioque.html

            *********************************************************************
            If the Popes of Rome rejected it , why is it included now?

            going to take this in parts brother Walid.

          • susan

            Do Orthodox believe God in three persons? The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? What do they believe happened when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary? If the three have always been, then is it necessary to determine in which order they proceeded? Or is it unknowable, truly?

          • Стефан Евгений

            Yes we do susan or we would not be Orthodox. As to the incarnation that is a mystery Orthodox don’t pick it apart, we just know it happened and leave it at that.

            This is from St Gregory the Theologian:

            For us there is One God, for the Godhead is One, and all that proceeds from Him is referred to One, though we believe in Three Persons. For one is not more and another less God; nor is there an earlier and a later. Neither are They divided in will nor divided in power; nor can you find here any of the qualities of divisible things; Rather, the Godhead is, to speak concisely, undivided in separate Persons; and there is one mingling of Light, as it were of three suns joined to each other. When then we look at the Godhead, or the First Cause, or the Monarchy, that which we perceive is One; but when we look at the Persons in Whom the Godhead dwells … there are Three Whom we worship. (Oration,32:14

            And he goes on to say…….
            You ask what is the procession of the Holy Spirit? Do you tell me first what is the unbegottenness of the Father, and I will then explain to you the physiology of the generation of the Son, and the procession of the Spirit, and we shall both of us be stricken with madness for prying into the mystery of God. (Oration 32:8)

          • susan

            Lol. I love it! :))

          • Стефан Евгений

            As to the use of leavened bread for the Eucharist,It was Universal in the One Holy Catholic Apostolic and Orthodox Church.
            The Tradition was handed to us by the apostles, and is clear to me reading Greek.
            Matt 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
            here it is in Greek….. Ἐσθιόντων δὲ αὐτῶν λαβὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς τὸν ἄρτον καὶ εὐλογήσας ἔκλασεν καὶ ἐδίδου τοῖς μαθηταῖς καὶ εἶπεν Λάβετε φάγετε τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου
            Notice the word ἄρτον arton/artos bread. the root word of artos is αἴρω airó to rise or rise up.
            The Greek word for unleavened bread is ἄζυμος, azymos, no where does the Greek New Testament say that Christ used azymos.

            The Eucharist is a sacrifice is it not, only leavened bread was used in sacrifice.(c.f. Ex 29:23, Le 8, Nu 6:15-19).
            Le 7: 13 Besides the cakes, he shall offer for his offering leavened bread with the sacrifice of thanksgiving of his peace offerings.

            Le 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.

            Leaven also is a symbol of the Kingdom of God.

            Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

            Lk 13:20 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? 21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. ……St And that the Savior received first-fruits of those whom He was to save, Paul declared when he said, ‘And if the first-fruits be holy, the lump is also holy,’ teaching that the expression ‘first-fruits’ denoted that which is spiritual, but that ‘the lump’ meant us, that is, the animal Church, the lump of which they say He assumed, and blended it with Himself, inasmuch as He is ‘the leaven.’

            -St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies , Book 1, ch. 8, para. 3

            Unleavened bread is connected with mourning, something totally inappropriate in connection with the Lord’s Day. The Eucharist is about the Resurrection as much as the Crucifixion, which is why fasting is forbidden on Sundays and liturgies are festive.

            Keep your nights of watching in the middle of the days of unleavened bread. And when the Jews are feasting, do you fast and wail over them, because on the day of their feast they crucified Christ; and while they are lamenting and eating unleavened bread in bitterness, do you feast.

            -Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book 5, Section 3, para. xvii
            ************************************************************************************
            The West used a leavened loaf for over a 1,000 years.

            Here is a quote from a Latin priest and professor of theology at the university of Vienna named Johannes H. Emminghaus:

            In the Latin Rite, the bread for the Eucharist has been unleavened since the eighth century; that is, it is baked of flour and water without yeast. At the Last Supper, Christ probably took this kind of bread (mazzah), which was interpreted in the Passover memorial as a “bread of affliction,” the bread of nomadic shepherds who had no homeland of their own. During the first millennium of Church history, however, it was the general custom in both East and West to use normal “daily bread,” that is, leavened bread, for the Eucharist; the Eastern Churches still use it and usually have strict prohibitions against the use of unleavened bread (or “azymes”). The Latin Church, for its part, regards the question as of little importance, since at the Council of Florence, which sought to reunite East and West (1439), the difference in custom was simply acknowledged and accepted. (Rev. Johannes H. Emminghaus, The Eucharist: Essence, Form, Celebration, p. 161).

            So if the West used a leavened loaf for over a 1,000 years why change it?

          • Стефан Евгений

            We do pour Walid, just as the the teaching of if you don’t have deep water the Apostles say pour, but triple imursion is the norm.
            We call it Economy, Walid. See the vid.

          • Grandmere

            And when we pour, we triple pour. It is all Trinitarian which makes it valid.

          • Grandmere

            Interesting. Also, from what I know, after the Seder there is a regular meal. The Seder is sparse. Afterward there is a more elaborate meal that would include leavened bread. I learned this from a friend years ago.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Here is how a Greek Grandmother does it.

      • Please review my reply to Grandmere below.

        • Vinny Zee

          My friend, first off, I hope you noticed my comments to Andrew’s article, “Fantastic article Andrew. Thank you.” For that is what it was and I’ve been following his writings for a while now.

          Next, I never stated whether I agreed or disagreed with the article. If there is something I hope you know about me, is that I seldom choose to quote anything out of context, which was the reason for me linking the entire article. Rather than give an out of sorts snippet of one part of the article, I figure let the audience judge for themselves. I posted the article only in response to a question from Richinnameonly, “In my mind it begs the questions of how or why was this current Pope chosen?” When he asked the question, I had in mind sections IV and V of the letter from their discussion on the matter. However, I chose not to plagiarize the section and figured I’d link the whole article and one can choose to read it or not.

          Please notice also I said it, “Has some interesting points.” I did not make the claim it was spot on, had no fallacies, etc. Perhaps I could have expounded in my initial post as to why I linked it, but nonetheless I am glad to do so now.

          The Filioque is a serious issue however. The west is affirmed in their stance on the interpretation, “From the Father and the Son.” The East is firm on their stance, “From the Father.” The Eastern Catholics have vacillated in my estimation, for they had originally had the clause in and now they have taken the clause out. I feel the most for my brothers and sisters of the Greek Catholic affiliation. They are most torn between their communion with Rome and remaining Orthodox. This schism has created a quandary for so many of us. I wonder how those players on that scene regret how their refusal to heal the schism affected our generation even today.

          “The East are a bunch of nit-pickers and are a divided bunch.” Isn’t this an over simplification of the issue? Would it not be better to say they are autocephalous? To say they are a divided bunch claims they have no direction, no leadership, no purpose. Doesn’t the claim of them being a divided bunch do a disservice to the struggle the Russian Orthodox went through in surviving the Bolsheviks? I think the point of this article was also to show how the pandering to Muslims has cost the church a great deal. The Orthodox certainly paid the price for doing so (as will many other who choose this same path.)

          We all struggle with the desire for perfection. Well maybe it is better if I say that it is my struggle. However, I have to remember that Orthodoxy is not right belief, but right glory. Oh how we’d all love for it to be right belief. Then we can all write dissertations to one another about right belief. But to have right glory, this is something entirely different, of which I can no doubt say I am the least without worrying whether someone thinks I am having false humility. No, I am the least!!!! Hopefully one day I will stop going on all these journeys, but instead sit quietly and go on a real journey.

          • Grandmere

            Thanks so much. That was a nice cool drink of water, brother.

          • “I never stated whether I agreed or disagreed with the article.”

            Never said you did Vinny. I simply did a quick and dirty on what I was reading from the link. Had no clue what initiated it but thought I’d give my two cents worth, thats all. When I say “divided” I mean from Catholics. Both Orthodox and Protestants “divided” “split”. This is why I am Catholic. Thats all. I simply snooped and jumped in on your conversation. Hope you don’t mind.

          • racarrera

            I would disagree with that, as you know we see Catholics as bolting from the other four after what we saw was a power trip from Rome’s side (met with pettiness on ours).

          • Стефан Евгений

            You mean the East Romans, saying who are these upstart unwashed barbarians in the West calling us Greeks (pagan)

          • racarrera

            Ah, yes.

          • racarrera

            Brother, don’t worry too much about this. Ted and I talk a lot, and he is a deep defender of Catholicism. I disagree, as I find the Orthodox point much stronger, but in the end, we have so much common cause that I see their intentions as noble, and we need so much healing.

          • Grandmere

            That we do, Rudy.

          • You debate with Ted? I can imagine. Maybe we should record it and air it.

          • racarrera

            Oh, I wouldn’t say debate, but I have to tell you, he has one of the clearest, sharpest minds I’ve ever encountered. University education would dull it. He’s done well do read material and process it himself, and with those who ‘get it.’

          • Trevor

            I agree, the Schism has gone on long enough it needs to end.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Well, I don’t make fun of Catholics, I find some of the things they come up with Crazy, so did my Father, (a traditional Catholic) but I keep my mouth shut. I thought i would get respect back and be listen to as i do for Catholics.

          • Grandmere

            Stop by this evening and I will make you a gin and tonic or a nice martini. I must say visions of popcorn have been dancing in my head watching all this.

          • Стефан Евгений

            My Bombay Sapphire bottle is is getting low this week.LOL!

          • Grandmere

            You have a discriminating palate, my friend.

          • Стефан Евгений

            I picked it up from a Anglo- Catholic Priest friend.

          • Grandmere

            Wow! Two Anglo-Catholic friends. Lucky you. He is one up on me, though.

          • Стефан Евгений

            Boy! Grandmere, this is lots of work. I just posted a few new comments.
            If people just read my links they would know all of this. How long have i been posting here? when i,m at work I”m lookin on here sted of working lol.

          • Its okay you can critique Catholics on this blog.

          • Стефан Евгений

            I’m doing research on it. I will get back to you, it may suprise many what I found out Orthodox and Catholics both.

          • susan

            You have my respect 🙂

          • Стефан Евгений

            I did my best to reply. I wish i had some of the books from the monastery, What a help they would be.

          • Look, right now I would say the Orthodox are doing a better job while Rome is failing. But this whole issue that the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son and the whole leavened bread vs. unleavened bread spells out hair-splitting. As you know, I allow all sorts of arguments on my blog so I am open to anyone’s attempt to argue their point.

          • racarrera

            That’s why I’m here, and why I enjoy the banter. As it turns out, I get as much support from Evangelicals and Anglicans as I do from my own on these fora, and sometimes more than what I get from those in person. Iron will continually sharpen iron here.

          • racarrera

            That’s part of the charm of being here. Everyone defends their positions with great force, and iron is constantly sharpening iron here. When outsiders come it and spit up their dribble, they’re chased out. When we here ‘fight’, it’s done the way discourse should be done – like a hockey match where everyone goes out for a beer at the end.

          • Trevor

            Throwing in my hat…

            I have this question, Jesus breathed on the disciples and told them to receive the Holy Spirit, how could He do that when He hasn’t yet gone to the Father?

          • I learned long ago Trevor to avoid analyzing the Trinity and stick with analyzing what we humans can only handle. Jesus was of the Trinity, inseparable and One. Think of the issue as yourself, a man with a head, arms and soul. You can reach out to me and shake my hand with your arm which was sent by your head and moved by your soul. But your hand is reaching out to me to say “Walid, I am leaving, just came to say good bye” to later on few months from now you return and your arm reaches out and say “Walid I am back” and we shake hands again. I think of the Eucharist as also God’s arm, reaching out to us, again and again and again.

          • Trevor

            I get what you are saying. I think there’s some thing that cannot be analyzed, like the Trinity, because it is too wonderful to comphrend the eternal mind of God.

          • Owen Schumacher

            Yes, who split from whom? The archbishop of a certain city thought his vote was a little more important than that of his peers. Funny how it didn’t work that way for the initial ecumenical councils. Things that make you go “hmmm.” 😉

          • Vinny Zee

            Of course I do not mind, it is your website, you can comment anywhere. Plus we live in a great country with freedom of speech!Both Orthodox and Protestants “divided” “split”. – Do you mean the Orthodox split among themselves? Or were you saying the Orthodox split from the Roman See in the same way the Protestants did? Perhaps I misunderstood you.

            On this issue that the Orthodox split from the Catholic church; I’ve read this in many comments at many points on your website and others. It was the reason I mentioned the autocephalous churches. Before there was ever a great schism, there were 5 sees. They were autocephalous. How can one say the east split from the west? They were all autocephalous. Separate of this, the protestant reformation came out of the west. That was a true split. They wanted to reform the church and ultimately split off.

            I know what the east’s beefs with the west are. What are the west’s beef with the east? “You don’t accept the insertion of our filioque clause?” “You don’t accept our bishop (pope)?” “You don’t accept our decrees of Vatican?” The eastern churches are united in liturgy and iconography. The liturgy of the west, beautiful as it is, is unlike the liturgy of the east in many regards. Wouldn’t you say the west has enjoyed a great degree of autonomy? East and West are united in the sacraments, priesthood, apostolic succession. The east and west have more in common than they have dividing them (that is my opinion, I realize there are some brothers and sisters of the east who may disagree.)

  • Catbr

    Another hater of the church and truth.

  • Catbr

    You can always join in with the muslims, go to the middle east and start burning down a few churches.

    • Tom_mcewen

      If you are a OSAS Protestant, you can kneel down and swear loyality to the prophet Mohammed and Allah and not lose your salvation. There is nothing you can do to earn your salvation and there is nothing you can do to lose it. The OSAS will make marvelous allies if the apostolic Church are called to fight, won’t be they!

      • Grandmere

        Off topic, but I have a gift for you and anybody else who likes Willie. I don’t know if you know about Richard Lederer. He is such a great talent. Enjoy.http://www2.d125.org/~rtompson/lederer.pdf

      • Catbr

        This sounds lame and destructive and definitely against the church. (What does osas stand for?)

        • Tom_mcewen

          One Saved Always Saved. Reformed theology, You can not earn your salvation, nor can you lose it. I call it a Free Happy Meal, from McGod.

          • Catbr

            Okay, thanks. Not a sound theology, I think. “Free Happy Meal, from McGod.” Funny.

  • Do you like hiking by any chance?

  • Tom_mcewen

    Please explain where Jesus kowtowed to Judas, did he not treat him with respect, and said, one of you a devil. Notice Satan entered him after he ate the Eucharist unworthily and then we have the John 6:66 crowd.

  • mrd83b

    Lol ya much better to not fight against the misl savages and allow them to slaughter Catholics and orthodox over in the east right?? Lol ya lets go get a Starbucks

    • Zuzana

      This is logical fallacy. The fact he is critical does not make him take side with islam

      • mrd83b

        Three words..Pacifism is evil

        • Zuzana

          I agree with you on that 100%. I just did not think it concluded from the comment you previously commented against.

      • mrd83b

        If people are being slaughtered and enslaved and you tell them they shouldn’t fight to defend their freedom and lives then there is nothing good inside you.. Yes I will be critical of that

        • AnthonyM

          Yes, I agree with you.

          Defense is not revenge, or an eye for an eye. That is the way things were settled in the OT. The bible does not tell us to be doormats. Jesus was no doormat when he knotted a whip from cords and drove out the money changers.

          The Church says there is a principal of a just war (not one begun using trite reasons), and defense of our lives, family, and country, or those who can not defend themselves.

          Ever think what life would be like today if the US and Allies did not engage in WWII because it was too ‘militant’?

          Governments have a responsibility to defend the cause of the right, and to do good. That is their purpose.

        • Zuzana

          This is a very generic comment. I also am against pacifism, but your comment can be used against the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. Unfortunately many pacifists use Jesus as their “example”. How can we answer to them.

          • mrd83b

            Jesus’ disciples owned weapons, which conflicts with the idea that Jesus was a pacifist. On the night Jesus was betrayed, He even told His followers to bring swords. They had two, which Jesus claimed was enough (Luke 22:37–39). As Jesus was being arrested, Peter drew his sword and wounded one of the men present (John 18:10). Jesus healed the man (Luke 22:51) and commanded Peter to put away his weapon (John 18:11). Of note is the fact that Jesus did not condemn Peter’s ownership of a sword, but only his particular misuse of it.

            The book of Ecclesiastes presents life’s balance of contrasting activities: “There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: . . . a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, . . . a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace” (Ecclesiastes 3:1, 3, and 8). These are not the words of a pacifist.

            Jesus did not sound like a pacifist when He said, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ‘For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD’” (Matthew 10:34–36). While Jesus is not stipulating warfare, He definitely embraces the conflict that comes with the incursion of truth.

          • mrd83b

            When it comes to defeating evil, God is not a pacifist. The Old Testament is full of examples of how God used His people in war to bring judgment upon nations whose sin had reached its full measure. A few examples are found in Genesis 15:16; Numbers 21:3; 31:1–7; 32:20–21; Deuteronomy 7:1–2; Joshua 6:20–21; 8:1–8; 10:29–32; 11:7–20. Before the battle of Jericho, Joshua was met by “the commander of the army of the Lord” (Joshua 5:14). This personage, who was most likely the pre-incarnate Christ, was distinguished by holding a “drawn sword in his hand” (verse 13). The Lord was ready to fight.

            We can be assured that it is always with justice that God judges and makes war (Revelation 19:11). “We know him who said, ‘It is mine to avenge; I will repay,’ and again, ‘The Lord will judge his people.’ It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Hebrews 10:30–31). What we learn from these and other biblical passages is that we are only to participate in warfare when it is justified. The countering of aggression, injustice, or genocide would justify a war, and we believe that followers of Jesus are free to join the armed forces and participate in warfare.

  • susan

    Continue to prepare and watch.

  • Trevor

    The confusion about Francis’ papacy can be traced to his apostolic exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium, and in it he writes:

    252. Our relationship with the followers of Islam has taken on great importance, since they are no significantly present in many traditionally Christian countries, where they can freely worship and become fully a part of society. We must never forget that they “profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, who will judge humanity on the last day.” The scared writings of Islam have retained some christian teachings; Jesus and Mary have receive profound veneration and it is admirable to see how Muslims both young and old, men and women, make time for daily prayer and faithfully take part in religious services. Many of them also have deep conviction that their life, in its entirety, is from God and for God. They also acknowledge the need to respond to God with an ethical commitment and with mercy towards those in need.

    253. In order to sustain dialogue with Islam, suitable training is essential for all involved, not only so that they can solidly and joyfully grounded in their own identity, but so they can also acknowledge the values of others, appreciate the concerns underlying their demands and shed light on shared beliefs. We Christians should embrace with affection and respect Muslim immigrants to our countries in the same way that we hope and ask to be received and respected in countries of Islamic tradition. I ask and I humbly entreat those countries to grant Christians freedom to worship and to practice their faith, in light of the freedom which followers of Islam enjoy in Western countries! Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence. November 24, 2013

    This writing, which was done in Francis’ first year of his Pontificate, laid the foundation of Francis’ papacy. Anybody wants to know why he behaves the way he does simply need to refer to this.

    Let me make one thing absolutely clear: I in no way am in any position or authority to condemn Pope Francis!

    When comparing Francis’ words to a Church Father, St. John of Damascus, it would be clear that St. John of Damascus had a far better understanding of Islam than Francis does. St. John called Islam the “forerunner of the Antichrist” and for Francis to take a position like he has is extremely troubling.

    Now, if there are Catholics who are troubled by Francis’ appearance of appeasement to Islam, there are evangelicals who also are appeasing Islam as demonstrated in this article.

    When Franklin Graham spoke out against Islam, his sharpest critics were from among evangelicals who came to the defense of Islam and apologized profusely to Muslims for Graham’s “offensive message.”

    It is like the story of the fox and the scorpion. The fox offered the scorpion a ride on his back to cross a river. Midway through the transit, the scorpion stung the fox, and as poison spread in the fox’s body, the fox turned his head and asked, “Why did you do that? Now we will both drown.” “I couldn’t help it,” said the scorpion, “It’s in my nature.”

    • Kelly ann

      interesting analysis of the Pope, but im afraid its not the his exhortations which defines his regin as Pope, this the church has never taught.

      • Trevor

        I didn’t give a thorough analysis. If I had, my comment would have broken this site. 🙂

        I said, “This writing, which was done in Francis’ first year of his Pontificate, laid the foundation to Francis’ papacy.”

        If the Church has never taught this about Islam except to condemn it, then it is crystal clear that Francis is one of those anti-popes that pops up throughout history. Yet, I have to confess there’s times I have cheered him, and times I have cringed. He is an enigma. It is like he is trying to not let his left hand know what his right hand is doing.

        Only the Lord Jesus will judge Francis, not you nor I can, because we all will stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ and give account.

        • Kelly ann

          to judge him subjectively is utterly out of our bounds, Catholics are forbidden to make such judgements, only Our Lord has this right. objectively yes indeed his actions, but never his person. as St Peter said we are called to judgement within the church in this regard as the early church fathers taught us. but this is where we differ from the protestant / catholic – difference of faith.

          catholics by cannon law, can only judge the Popes or anyone else actions within the church, based on past Popes teachings, not by our own personal knowledge or analysis.

          you said: “This writing,(exhortation) which was done in Francis’ first year of his Pontificate, laid the foundation to Francis’ papacy.

          I said:”the first Papal (encyclical) lays the foundations of his reign, this the church has always taught.

          I’m merely pointing out a fact, regardless of your analysis.

  • Kamau41

    Excellent compilation of some of the greatest Popes who actually fought against the threat of Islam/evil. Indeed, as history clearly shows and so will the future, “the Faith(as always)remains intact.” I do believe there will eventually be another Pope in the future who will lead another Crusade to help bring a full restoration of Christendom to fight against evil. Thank you, as always, for boldly speaking truth and setting the record straight in the midst of the days of confusion/deception.

  • bubba

    for over 20 years of being raised catholic going to mass 6 days a week, catholic school and bingo never did i hear anything like this article states. i am thinking i made a mistake when i joined the protestant crowd. we can now see their final fruits. we are all those popes, monks and nuns dedicated to the modern day cause of Christ in these days. good to get my bearings straight about the catholic church. thanks andrew, walid and crew.

  • AnthonyM

    You may come to you senses when the Jihadi is at YOUR front door.
    Until then as they say my work, ‘Don’t let the door hit you in the a33 on the way out’.

  • The really slim shady

    Hovind has been preaching the Church Militant?
    I just started watching some of his post-prison videos, and sort of have the feeling he may have been cooped up too long.
    But i could also be wrong.

  • Whats with this “big writers” and “big speakers”….

    These two you refer to knew nothing about Islam and the Antichrist until I spoke of it 20 some years ago.

    Do you always follow whomever comments on others?

    And “pray for what”? That we are “Catholic”?

    Most slander starts by “pray for so and so … you know what so and so believe … they turned Catholic …they believe in militarism …. pray for them….”

    As if being Catholic is a plague or self defense is evil. You started with this. Look at your own words

    And you come here acting as if you were attacked when you started with “I am no longer a fan …”

    Is this all about praying for us: “this new catholic-militant view of yours is something thats been talked about amongst several other prominent writers”

    This is your own quote, sir.

    Who are you kidding Mr. Innocence? You follow men. You come to slander. You become a fan of men and then they disappoint you … you trust so and so for this and that.

    Now, you are welcome to quote our writings and show us where we went wrong, or else, cut it out. Okay?

    Stop with the nonsense that everyone here is attacking you. Either start reasoning or disappear. Which is it?

  • “As kent hovind says eat the meat spit out the bones.”

    Took your advice. I read your comment, scraped the bit of meat and spit out a large bone.

    The bone:

    “Do hope that Walid will focus more on the parts he s an expert at which is the middle east islam and prophesy.”

    I have been told this by countless before you as if there is a number of people who say something it makes it true.

    Lets face it. You folks will always consider the Catholic a “cult” and you would always see it fit to convert all Catholics to your ways while you reject Catholics converting your ilk to Catholic ways.

    Is there anything I said here that according to you is false?

    • Daniel, God is my judge

      In the Barbary Coast war the Marine hymn starts with “From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli.” The State will raise the sword against Islam, if that is God’s will. It would be interesting to see the Vatican and Catholic church take up arms and ship off to the Mid-East to fight, as the early crusaders did. I wonder how you will handle the training, aquisition of weapons, ammo and ship all this stuff. I’m sure the American government won’t have a problem with all of this, nor would the United Nations, nor NATO. So, all you Christian soldiers better get your passports ready, time is wasting, there are Muslim just waiting to be killed. Like Gerrit Wiersema I check in for insight to your Mideast Islamic prophecy viewpoints, but mostly as a silent observer. Good luck with your New Crusade.

    • Tom_mcewen

      Now,now, worthless dung maybe, but covered with white snow – Luther, the OSAS order, whose motto is ” Not even the Angels in Heaven have the right to reject my theology “.

  • Trevor

    While I appreciate being said that I keep a fair and constructive comment, you ought to know I don’t tolerate water down theology. So I come down pretty hard on it.

  • Vinny Zee

    Fantastic article Andrew. Thank you.

  • Did I discuss with you anything about “Richardson” or my “ego”? And I am not projecting anything on you except that I am NOT INTERESTED IN FANS and neither should you be using the term “BIG NAMES” and “BIG SPEAKERS”.

    It is a TURN OFF.

    WE ARE ALL EQUAL HUMAN BEINGS.

    Do you now get it?

    Its best I simply ignore your comments.

    Last chance.

  • Great. Are you the one who will pass Gospel tracts to ISIS instead of bombing them?

  • AnthonyM

    On 11 February 2013, Benedict announced his resignation in a speech before the cardinals, citing a “lack of strength of mind and body” due to his advanced age. This was unusual as he is the first pope to resign since Pope Gregory XII in 1415, and the first to do so on his own initiative since Pope Celestine V in 1294.

    Pope Francis was elected in the usual manner, where a conclave of Cardinals is called in Rome and appointed Roman Catholic cardinals from the world come in and vote. That is simplifing a complicated process, but he was not put there by just the USA to be out puppet. If he was the puppet of the USA, he would be for abortion, and calling gay unions a marriage, like President OBama does.

  • Quote what you disagree with and explain yourself. It would make the discussion more interesting instead of a generalized statement.

    I am not “dismissive” of anything or anybody. I did respond to you trying to know exactly if you have something to offer to the table or your here just to express your disappointment.

  • Naaaa, none of us have Christian love here. We are simply filled with “hate”.

    You are just loaded with love. love love love.

    Is that better sir? You feel better now?

  • And what is wrong with the popes who were mentioned in this article Sean?

    You have posted several comments by now and not one explanation to edify us about these popes in this article. Not one. I mean we are hungry. Are you going to feed us or just keep on commenting?

  • At least we have defenders of truth against Jack Chicks

    http://www.catholic.com/documents/the-nightmare-world-of-jack-t-chick

  • See, now you found a buddy. Only at Shoebats. You two can team up now.

  • rodolfo

    Jesus Christ came to this world not to condemn but to save us. I think these passages below will help us.
    1 Peter 5 1-11 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
    5 The ancients therefore that are among you, I beseech, who am myself also an ancient, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ: as also a partaker of that glory which is to be revealed in time to come:
    2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking care of it, not by constraint, but willingly, according to God: not for filthy lucre’s sake, but voluntarily:
    3 Neither as lording it over the clergy, but being made a pattern of the flock from the heart.
    4 And when the prince of pastors shall appear, you shall receive a never fading crown of glory.
    5 In like manner, ye young men, be subject to the ancients. And do you all insinuate humility one to another, for God resisteth the proud, but to the humble he giveth grace.
    6 Be you humbled therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in the time of visitation:
    7 Casting all your care upon him, for he hath care of you.
    8 Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour.
    9 Whom resist ye, strong in faith: knowing that the same affliction befalls your brethren who are in the world.
    10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us into his eternal glory in Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a little, will himself perfect you, and confirm you, and establish you.
    11 To him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen.

  • Sounds to me you don’t like hiking. Maybe you should try it.

  • The really slim shady

    ::Applause::

    It still was a little bit more Catholic than what Id say, but I think it was well said and the point was spot on!

  • DANTEontheLake

    A pope that puts Catholics first and a president of the United States that put America first. Time to return to sanity.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Fascinating topic – one I had never considered – you should write a book – will print and keep this.

    • Grandmere

      Inspiring.

  • Indian Christian Crusader

    Kissing Muslim’s feet and taking Muslim refugees but ignoring Christian refugees is not following Jesus teachings. First, look after your own church and people, then look after others. Respecting elders depends on if the elder is corrupt or not. In Pakistan and India, we respect “elders” who happen to be corrupt, that is why our countries are full of rubbish. If your “respect elders” is applied, then it means even Osama Bin laden should be “respected” because he is “older”. Give up this cultural trash.

    I do agree with you, Pope Francis needs prayer he is being misguided in many areas.

    “love one another” is not an emotion but rather a state of truth, which means pointing out evil and sin. If Muslims or those who pander to Muslims do evil, then their sins and actions must be openly pointed out and if needed confronted. Jesus took a whip and beat people out of the temple (John 2:16).

  • Two2trees

    Ann is in no way alone: there are a vast number of traditional Catholics, (slandered as rad-trads,) who see at least very major difficulties with pretty much everything he does. To track them, see pewsitter . com. Among the most level-headed voices look to the blog named after the above cited passage: 1Peter5.

    Problems come in sets, and Francis is part of a particularly unusual one.

  • Peter Barfoot

    Chick was extreme and his artwork depicted Catholic priests and others with warts on their faces. Those he approved of were wart free. A single, sinful glance at a woman resulted in hellfire! Fundamentalism in the extreme.

  • Indian Christian Crusader

    As far as “following Christ’s teachings” are concerned, I have never met any Christian in my life who follows it 100%. Some follow less, some follow greater part. So leave the part of judging who is a Christian or not, to God. You and I are not capable of it. We have a day of judgement to decide all that. Unlike Pakistan and Pakistani culture where you come from where it is forbidden to “say anything bad” about an “older” person, in other countries there is freedom to speak and criticize whomever we want, whenever we want. No one is above no one, if someone does wrong, then it will be exposed. In simple words, Bhatti, if your elderly mother does something evil or ill-treats someone or beats your wife, I will not hesitate to call her a witch and a corrupt woman at her face. Get it? No one is above the law. Only Muslims and Hindus defend corrupt people under ‘culture taboos’. They are sons of darkness. We got too many “elders” in Pakistan and India spreading havoc, rape, corruption, destruction in society. Their age won’t protect them any more.

  • Tom_mcewen

    If you are a Catholic, which I believe you are then you read the Bible in context, so read the comment I was responding too so you will have the context.

  • RTF

    Just in case Walid doesn’t see your question. Ill tell you the little I think I know/have found in the past about where they went. Indeed be interested to know myself from him about the Turkish community.

    I believe a small amount of the Sephardic community went to Morocco, some others indeed went to Constantinople (there were already Jews since BC), Constantinople’s population was low due to the Black death: so without anything nefarious, I guess the jizya and the added people would have contributed to the coffers. In Northern Europe the black death depopulation helped the economy but as these people were often merchants it could have brought money in from different sources to the Ottomans.

    Some settled in Smyrna indeed I think that is the community that 150 years or so later Sabbatai zevi the false messiah came out of – (if that is the cult you were thinking of), in escaping his detractors (Both Christians and some Jews such as Tsvi Ashkenazi’s camp who strongly refuted his claim,) if I recall he went to Constantinople and was forced to either face an ordeal or become muslim. He converted and fortunately lost most of his supporters although some would have followed him ( Indeed I think I heard that some Turks were looking for Jewish ancestry because of the Spanish invitation a couple of years ago to the Sephardic descendants for citizenship – although I think even if they found it the Spanish said no muslims)

    As I understand it though most of the Sephardic Jews went to Portugal . In Portugal they were all were converted overnight and there was the Lisbon Massacre. Many of the Jews in Portugal later then went onto settle in Holland when it gained independence where they were given freedom of religion. (contrary to what I had thought, I have found indications that the Spanish nobility may have let some of these Jews in after their expulsion to trade with) From Amsterdam and Rotterdam the lucky ones went and settled in the first proper Jewish communities in New Amsterdam and England after the expulsion.

    I guess by going they would have helped the ottoman economy but to be fair living in a Catholic nation at those times was not without difficulties for Jews: albeit the inquisition was largely about heresy.

  • Michael Payton

    Maybe in the past, but in the present, Francis has all but converted to Islam.

  • Trevor

    My name is Trevor, not Tom. And I don’t like watered down theology.
    Period.

    I prefer the orthodoxy that were taught by the apostles and handed down today.

  • Trevor

    Then it sounds like Germany may experience what Northern Ireland went through with the war between Catholics and Protestants.

    It also is likely that those who are stupidly loyal to Merkel will side with Muslims and fight against Christian patriots. It’s going to get messier.

    • just my opinion

      That’s for sure ! But i’ll keep my eyes on the price and so do you , don’t you . It’s worth it .

  • Trevor

    How would you like having being told all of your life that you have been part of a harlot religion as Catholics have endured? Then you can understand the bite back that comes.

    • Catbr

      This is true. And catholics are called even much worse.

  • All you people do is look for “vitriol” and “despise” cause it, invoke it than complain about it. Wish once I could see some historic quote or some interesting analyses that edifies people.

    I guess my chastisement above is also “vitriol”.

    When will you people stop being a walking sensitivity and just throw in a nugget or two for us to chew on. I mean look at the title of the article, it is about Popes who fought Islam. Look at your lousy comment, its complaining. Thats all you folks do is complain.

  • mrd83b

    He is teaching to be a doormat to evil instead of fight it and he has not spoken against Islam’s false doctrine from what I’ve seen he wants to make chrislam a reality …I consider myself more of a Catholic than francis I don’t respect the elders that elected him or him or you if you’re my elder or Any elder that engages in such evil and hypocricy

  • Grandmere

    Gerrrit. I am not a Roman Catholic. I am that Anglican road kill that gets run over coming and going. If I took personal offense every time someone made a (well deserved) criticism of the Archbishop of Canterbury I would be nothing but a greasy spot on the pavement. So just relax.

  • Tom_mcewen

    That is alot if meaningless uneducated stuff. Do you know Latin or just propaganda? The part you have your knickers in a Rev 17 twist is a Latin hymn which calls Jesus the morning star that never sets, we didn’t know in the 4th century that protestants would go outside the bible, isn’t your encyclopedia? The Pope didn’t invoke the Devil, it is a hymn of praise, there is a billboard that has “Smart Phone” problem is the way we pronounce smart is their same way pronounce the Czech word for death. English is not Latin, English is not Greek and English is not Czech, but then I think less and less that Protestantism is still Christianity.

  • Tom_mcewen

    You maybe right, I will try to cut down my ( what ever it can be called) thanks Tom

  • Tom_mcewen

    Yep, I downloaded it to my phone and am reading it. By the way as a Catholic I back over you a lot and I have pick bits of Anglican out of my tire treads, do I send the bill to you or the Baptists?

    • SNAP! Very funny.

    • Grandmere

      Send it to Creflo Dollar. That dude has some serious cash.

  • Tom_mcewen

    God is rational, the universe is rational, man is made in the image of God so man is rational therefore he can with reason understand the creation of the universe, since God is rational man can use reasoning to understand God through rational Theology. You are not rational nor is your theology and the information presented is illogical.

  • Mark T

    Gerry

    While I try to admire your zeal of Christ, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, please. You never proved a single point of your arguments. The very FIRST error you spouted was “Roman Catholic Church”. An obvious sign of an anti-Catholic. Also: shotgunning your claims so that one has to “defend” against everyone of them is not debating, nor is it dialoging. If you wish to dialogue about these issues (or others) off thread, or perhaps here, I’d be glad to, with charity, kindness and courtesy. If you want my email address, I’d be happy to give it to you so that we can talk more directly.

    The Catholic Church totally acknowledges that Jesus Christ is THE ROCK that His Church was founded on, but you failed to notice some of the comments above that tell you the role of Peter and his successors. You’re trying to falsely substitute an ideology that Catholics don’t uphold, nor have ever believed. I suggest that you read 1 Corinthians 3:1-13 instead of just singling out verse 11. Typical anti-Catholic tactic. You also need to read your Scriptures that attest to the fact that Peter and the Apostles were the foundation on which Jesus Christ built his VISIBLE Church: Romans 15:20; 1 Corinthians 3:10-13; Ehpesians 2:20;

    Another point: You SERIOUSLY need to do some research on words and their definitions before you continue to post such nonsense about “Holy Father”. The word “holy” has multiple meanings:

    adjective, holier, holiest.
    1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy round.
    2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man
    3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life.
    4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love.
    5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred:a holy relic.
    6. religious:holy rites.
    7. inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress: (The director, when angry, is a holy terror.)

    noun, plural holies.
    8. a place of worship; sacred place; sanctuary.

    Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15). It appears that you skipped that verse.

    Only God is holy by his very essence; however, by a person, place, or thing’s association with God, it too can be called holy. To be called holy is to express the idea of consecration, that someone or something belongs to God. That is why the Bible can call many persons, places, and things holy.

    In Genesis 28:16, the place God appears is “holy.” In Exodus 19:6, God tells the Israelites through Moses, “and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” God’s dwelling place in the Tabernacle is “holy” (Ex 28:43), as is the city of Jerusalem (Is 48:2). Even a goat, the victim of sacrifice to God, is called “holy” in Leviticus 10:17.

    After Christ’s death and resurrection the Christians called themselves and each other “holy ones” or “saints,” called by God to be his (Rom 1:7). In 1 Peter 1:16 we read, “it is written, ‘You shall be holy, for I am holy.’”

    Since we are his holy people, and his people are the Church, it is fitting that the head of his holy people be called Holy Father—not because of his own merit, but because Christ died for him and for the Church that he leads on earth.

    Catholics call the pope “Holy Father” not as an acknowledgement of his personal state of soul but as an expression of respect for his office as successor to Peter and head of the Church on earth. His is a holy office. If you wish to argue that we are not to “call no man father”, then by all means, please do so, as I can provide Scriptural support for such a practice.

    The Catholic Church gave us the Bible. Sorry. I don’t know what history you are referring to that says “it didn’t”, unless you believe the anti-Catholic falsehood of “ancient documents secreted away from Antioch where the very first Christians practiced” which is a common statement that can be found within the poorly research, no references provided, no scholars to back up their claims, pamphlet called “The Trail of Blood”. which can easily be debunked in about 15 seconds.

    ALL Catholic Doctrines and Dogmas can be supported either explicitly or implicitly by Scripture, whether you choose to believe them or not. If you have scripture conflicting with each other then one needs to be able to rectify the conflict, which usually comes about by reading everything in context. The only thing you are doing is repeating more falsehoods that have existed for the last 200 years and many of them invented right there in good ole Marxism/Socialist Amerika by none other than anti-Catholics. I know lots of Protestants who would laugh at what you post.

    Please provide me the Scriptural passage where it says SPECIFICALLY to confess your sins DIRECTLY to God. I would suggest you read the entire Old Testament because it is LOADED with people confessing their sins to the priests of the tabernacle. I would also suggest you read the New Testament again because Christ gave the Apostles the power to bind and loose sins. That’s something you can’t do unless you know the sin in question.

    Petitioning Saints is COMPLETELY BIBLICAL! You just demonstrated it yourself by using the word “petition”, which means “to ask”. Do you ask people to pray for you? I bet you do. Why can’t Catholics who believe the Saints are LIVING in heaven ask for their prayers, like the Apocalypse (Revelations) demonstrates? Catholics don’t worship Saints by praying to them like gods. When we say “pray to them”, we are asking, because THAT IS WHAT PRAY MEANS.

    QUESTION: Is Jesus Christ the God of the Living or of the dead?

  • Mark T

    Yeah sendtheclunkerbacktochicago

    I highly recommend people to find a good translation of the Holy Bible then read the Old and New Testament and examine the history of God’s chosen people and the early church Apostles and disciples and all those who called themselves followers of Jesus Christ. It is not a pretty picture, as a matter of fact, it is down right disgusting.

  • Trevor

    And what do you think is happening in Germany? It’s history repeating itself like a broken record.

  • DeusLoVult

    Isn’t Heylel his original name?

    • Mark T

      I think that might be correct. The name contains the suffix “el”, which as you know, most if not all of the Arch angels end with that suffix: Raphael, Michael, Gabriel, etc..

      • DeusLoVult

        Never actually thought of that before. Now that I do, it makes perfect sense.

  • The really slim shady

    Hey Gerry,
    Just want to throw this idea at you before you get executed for being a warming denier.

    Global warming is perfectly logical from a Christian standpoint.
    Pre-flood earth was a perfectly controlled atmosphere.
    Imagine where enough rain came from to rain for 40 straight days and cover the earth.

    When the flood came it trashed the whole world, and our protective covering was removed.
    Now instead of being universally nice, it was warmer closer to the sun, colder further away.

    At one point, a much larger portion of the world was covered in ice, as the earth adjusted to its new environment.
    The ice age can be proven right here in WI, where you can see for your own eyes where glaciers carved the terrain.

    The earth has been heating ever since then! The idiot scientists dont realize this, and just base their assumptions on data for the last 100 years.

    So really, give that some thought. May be one less battle you have to fight.

  • The really slim shady

    I love how you related Isaiah to a rap battle!
    Nicely done, good analogy.

    • Mark T

      Thanks Slim, but don’t praise me.
      It’s those wiley and clever monks from the medieval era who did it 🙂

      • The really slim shady

        They were having rap battles already in the medieval era?
        You learn something new every day!

        I wonder if they did the “Obama out”.

        • Mark T

          LOL! Nah. I think it was more along the lines of “Mystic Monk” and “Who’s the Big Daddy”, or “Who Made The Big Bang Gansta”,

          but hey! Some of those Saints had private visions of the future. Maybe one of them was trying to tell us something about the “Big O” in their hymnals?

  • ace

    Thanks Andrew! A very interesting and informative read. Excellent!

    Check out http://www.dailycatholic.org/hist/hist21.htm: ” …Honorius became the 70th Vicar of Christ on October 25, 625 and reigned as pontiff until October 12, 638… He also knew of the threat in Arabia and sent missionaries to almost every part of the Christian world to reinforce the faith and to safeguard against the perils of Mohammedism. He even sent missionaries to Medina and Mecca to help squelch the teachings of the infidel. But many were martyred by Mohammed who also annihilated the males of the Jewish tribes in Medina…” (Look at the last part of the URL and change hist21 to hist1 for sources on their series, but since no footnotes, couldn’t discern the specific source for info in quote)

  • ace

    Spiritual Actions: Pope Gregory IX (papacy 1227-1241): “On 17 January 1235, he approved the Order of Our Lady of Mercy for the redemption of captives.” The Royal, Celestial and Military Order of Our Lady of Mercy and the Redemption of the Captives had been earlier established in 1218 by St. Peter Nolasco (Wiki) Pope Gregory IX also instituted the Feast of Our Lady of Ransom which was extended by Pope Innocent XII (papacy 1691-1700) to the Universal Church.

  • Grandmere

    And please keep coming by the falafel stand. The Chef cooks with gas and it gets hot and sweaty in here sometimes. When you have the usual crowd and some people come in and start to throw elbows we kind of collectively push back.

  • Grandmere

    U r not texting, r u? Please, 4 your sake, I am hoping 2 make you c how bad that looks and hope next time you will take time to write in standard English.

  • “Mudslinging” … what do you expect, for centuries the Catholic faith have been painted as leporsy by people from your side of the fence. What do you expect? A box of chocolate offered every time someone says that Catholics worship Mary?

    Think about it. These people who say things like this would never dare tell this type of nonsense to the Jewish faith.

    “Catholics worship statues” … how about tell a Jew “Jews worship a six pointed star”. You think they dare say things like this?

    Just go and see all the blogs how they speak of Catholics. Then come in here and talk of “mudslinging” and “mean spirited …” and all the nonsensical terms to describe us over here.

    Give me a break. All you folks do is come in here to add more complaints as if we were a bunch of savages and you were the enlightened civilized ones. You’re not.

  • Excuse me for asking, what does your drivel have anything to do with the content of the article?

    • Tom_mcewen

      That is the drivel you get from being your own authority without the Church. Luther nailed it at the end. Every Protestant know that the English bible is the true word of God and Greek is mistranslated from English. That Paul is the theologian, no Christ, Jesus was mentally slow, so Paul corrected him. Like a protestant told me Peter has two letters, Paul wrote 13 so Paul is the chief apostle, Jesus wrote zero so he is not anything.

  • Mark T

    Uhhhhh…. Gerry.

    No, “Roman” Catholic isn’t the key. The term “Roman” Catholic is a protestant invention due to their desire to separate from the Catholic Church. Please provide actual documentation that proves the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church. The Latin Rite, often referred to as the “Roman Rite” gets attached to the name of the Catholic Church by people who don’t understand all the rites that exist within Catholicism. So “yes”, you ARE anti-Catholic if you continue to post garbage that isn’t even accurate.

    Also, you previously demonstrated that you had no desire to even try to understand what “lucifer” meant when Pope Francis performed the Easter Vigil. That shows nothing more than emotional reaction and not logic. When logic and reason get thrown out the window because someone is too passionate about what they believe, it’s time to slow down and take a deep breath.

    And as far as you ‘links” you provided, Gerry….that is nothing but more regurgitation that Loraine Bohtner helped set off with his bogus book attacking the Catholic Church. Jack Chick also helped fan that flame and it is evident from what you have posted, you don’t even bother to confirm what you post. That’s not the sign of someone who has control over their emotions and is looking at things in a logical manner. Sorry, but it’s apparent that you being played the fool.

    Another thing, Gerry…almost half, if not more, of the founding fathers of the U.S. were masons. I know where you are going with this: the Roman Catholic Church started to Masons. No they did not. Why would they establish such an organization then allow that organization to attack the very Church that established it? You will need to provide actual documentation that can verify such, since we Catholics have heard this for the last half century and keep refuting it since no evidence exists for this.

    Also, what you posted regarding the sacrifices of the Old Testament….that has nothing to do with our previous discussion. What you are trying to do, once again, is avoid the first subject you discussed by changing the subject to something else, since you were debunked. Lets stay focused on one subject, shall we?

    And one more thing…I suggest you realize the contradiction you are posting right from the get-go. You just confessed that your subject is “Roman Catholic Church” and not the Catholic Church and that you are not anti-Catholic. Okay, then please tell me where the seat of the Catholic Church resides, who it’s leader is, and how many followers does it have. Then tell me where the seat of the Roman Catholic Church is, who her leader is, and how many followers does she have. You see, Gerry, you just admitted that it is a completely different religion other than the Catholic Church, so please provide evidence that demonstrates the difference between the Catholic Church and this Roman Catholic Church.

    And last but not least, the prophecy of Malaki that you posted……

    was also stated about Popes St. John Paul II, Pope Benedict and now Francis. So if each one of the prior popes before Francis had the same accusations throw at them using the prophecy of Malaki, then don’t you think it’s obvious that someone isn’t interpreting the prophecy correctly, or that perhaps, the prophecy is wrong?

  • Tom_mcewen

    Try to think as the bible as a book with a single message, not as a verse. You are wasting your time with me. Go to western Europe and bring your Protestantism back to Germany, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Brussels, France, Britain they are protestants who all had a different verse and now couldn’t tell who Jesus is if you put a gun to their head. You give us unproven stories and expect us to take them at face value. Pope eats infant in ninth circle rite of Lucifer, Secret alien in St Peter’s, Pope is Jesus, Mary is Goddess, Early Christians were protestants, Constantine started Catholic Church, We have Eucharistic miracles, you nothing, we are the oldest church in the world, incorruptible saints, beautiful architecture, beautiful art, beautiful music, great teachers, the apostolic fathers, martyrs, you got Romans 13. The Church under communistism died and conquered, Protestantism sold out and surrendered. Protestantism is dead, dead, dead got a verse?

  • Mark T

    ROTFLMAO!!! Typical response from an anti-Catholic who is asked to answer questions and provide evidence for his claims but can’t. Well, I’ll pray for you Gerry and wish you the best.

    Peace

  • The really slim shady

    Lol….changed my mind.
    I dont want to conversate with you.

    That right there is borderline spamming.
    Its good to be informed, but just like everything else – moderation is key.

    Common core, global warming, gay rights – not really all that important.

    America is a worldly nation for wordly people, just like every other nation – let them worry about how they want to govern themselves.

    Parents, if you dont want your kids to be a climate change fearing, common core educated, greedy, loudmouth, disrespectful, violent, gay rights supporter then do your God given role and raise your children!

    Obsessing about these things gets you nowhere, makes you sound loopy, and shows your focus is on things of this world, and not on things of God.

    Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, i have no concern for what the people who live in the shadow are doing.
    My only concern is to maybe share with some random stranger that crosses my path that theres more to life than the darkness.

    We are foreigners in this land. All that is in this world, including Ol’ Glory, is going to be burnt up into nothingness.
    What are you fighting to preserve? A crumbling nation? A shattered world? A planet that is on Death Row?
    Youre time would be much more well spent studying prophecy than posting such an inordinant amount of cut-n-paste/hyperlink irrelevance.

    If youre not just some right-wing bot, seriously, give what ive said some thought. Could be youre just stuck in a rut.

  • Grandmere

    SNAP

  • susan

    I was glad when Pope Francis came out and spoke for the family. And not the one satan is trying to force—through legislation by corrupt Catholics like Pelosi.

  • mrd83b

    Doing good is not bowing to the religion and people slaughtering christians … Jesus taught to lay down our lives in defense of the brethren which involves war and fighting Muslims not kissing their feet .. You are just as much of a spineless weasel as Francis neither of you have mercy for the future victims of Muslim invaders shame on you I hope God opens your eyes

    • I love it when Christians put love in its proper perspective.

      • mrd83b

        Haha thanks to Shoebat ministry for teaching the true faith. God bless you all what an amazing operation and bunch of people I hope we all get to meet someday

  • Tom_mcewen

    I was pointing out sarcastically the comment I was replying too, I never mentioned the pope as God. He is the supreme teacher of the faith. I think you are reading in something into the sarcasm that is not there.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Co-redemptrix is Latin not English I am in a small way a co-redemptrix we all are. Look up the Latin.

  • Tom_mcewen

    What are you talking about I told you to find out what Latin means and you give verses that are not relevant to the Latin. No wonder protestantism is dead here, you have a movie or a record playing in your head.

  • Tom_mcewen

    My friend Dave Needle is a Jew but as an great engineer he checks his facts before claiming things that are not true. I have learned that people who reject Mary are the same people who also reject Christ in the Eucharist. English is not Czech English is not Polish English is not Russian and Hebrew is not Latin. You sound more like the John 6:66 people to me who rejected Jesus in the Eucharist.