The Cross Is Mightier Than The Crescent: A Muslim Reveals How He Discovered Christianity Even In America Where It Is Least Practiced

By Walid Shoebat (Shoebat Sunday Special)

It took me a while to discover the cross. The one fascinating thing about the cross is its four arms. If they are indefinitely extended the cross will infinitely go towards all four directions. God used the cross to travel in all four directions to create a universal church. The cross is infinite and is universal.

But the crescent if it extends its arms, it can only continue until the circle closes.

So unlike the cross, the crescent is a ring. Islam is an endless loop. It is a circular argument where the Quran says that Allah sent the Quran to state that Muhammad was a prophet and to know that we must go back to the Quran because it says so.

But God is not a ring. He is infinite. Rings are but for weddings.

But here I was an 18 year old Muslim, single, I had no wedding ring, I never drank or had sex. I just came off the plane in 1978 from Bethlehem via Tel-Aviv landing in San Francisco. I was naive but well grounded in certain ancient wisdoms I acquired from living in a time where the modern was bordering on the ancient struggling with it but modernism did not prevail since traditions were more powerful than money.

I worked whatever odd jobs I got to make a buck in fast foods and liquor stores. At the liquor store all I saw were people come in and go out buying booze to get drunk or buy zig-zags to smoke weed, while at the graveyard shift working at fast food all I saw were people drunk or high coming to eat because they had “the munchies”. The customers first went to the liquor store to get their high and then came to eat to satisfy their bellies believing that they were living the life.

But I was not effected by these social pressures and I refused to comply. I was simply living in a land where sex was a handshake and immorality was running rampant.

I was thankful when God finally blessed the people with AIDS and and all sorts of venereal diseases but they still cursed Him.

Everything was about buying and selling products and ideas. Salesmen would daily arm-twist us to comply from when we turned on the television to driving on the freeways where giant signs and temptations covered highways, byways, streets and buildings. This was the ‘rampant capitalism’ they called ‘freedom’. Capitalism, I quickly observed, was a war on two major Godly virtues: frugality and  contentment, the two secrets to real freedom.

For the first decade I lived on a strict diet of lentil pilaf with grilled onions, tomatoes and plain yogurt for lunch which cost me $.50 on average and a piece of cod fish at a cost of another $.50 which I dipped in flour and fried with olive oil for supper. I was very content.

As I lived in this culture I never have seen a people who loved to collect so much rubbish where the products came into these horseshoe shaped homes where the front door was the input and the output came out of the garage with a ready sign that says “garage sale”. It was a continual cycle of rubbish.

Never have I seen a people more enslaved where not one owns a home free and clear for when they even paid the damned thing off, here still comes the government who was still the landlord. He still collected the rent they called “property tax” where if you missed a payment he now become the homeowner and you are evicted homeless. It was a culture were law-abiding citizens paid more throughout their lives for no infractions, a heftier fine from what lawbreakers pay throughout their life.

It was a land where capitalism took women into concentration camps to compete with men for the monthly allowance where latchkey kids were raised by perfect strangers and were all the relatives were exiled to different states in search for new slave masters. Everyone was a trapped slave with only one right; you can abandon your latest slave master and solicit another to always beg for more to cover for toys (more rubbish) and credit card payments. I never fell for such traps.

I entered colleges where tables were setup in the yards calling to “legalize marijuana”. They did put on a facade of concern by combatting American tobacco while the Psychology 101 class taught us demonism under the guise of hypnotism and pseudoscience they called telepathy.

I quickly saw that a college education was something stupid which parents forced their children to attend where everything they planted from morals to values was being stripped away by educated professors. So I quickly learned how to program mainframe computers and I became a skilled software builder and in no time I was hired to build and design software for nearly three decades. I was thankful to all these Americans who taught me a skill or two.

All my life I rarely watched the news because it only created local earthquakes while it ignored the whole earth. But I had a very bad sense of direction where I got lost going around the corner to pick up an $.80 cents pack of cigarettes. Later on this too was taxed and the pack is now $5.00 which was my daily expense for food and gas. I was frugal living in a land where everyone was the enemy of frugality. So I fought the enemies of frugality by rolling my own pipe tobacco and even planted my own food. I was stubborn and all I wanted to do is to live like my grand parents did in Bethlehem.

Many were the times I would call friends for direction. My mind always wandered in a different world but one thing was certain for me; democracy is not for the stupid since the whole world in Noah’s time were dead wrong and only Noah was right. The collective view of the whole earth at the time ended up drowning in death and error.

People in Noah’s time were as dumb as people who like to purchase expensive oceanfront property

I was an introvert and to me popularity was the zebras gathering around the waterhole while wisdom was to make it last and only drink when the lion got his fill of the fastest popular pedigree zebras.

All the wisdom I learned I later discovered did not belong to me. They were already in the Bible which I once started to read as if it is a book on wisdom passed down to me by my grandparents who learned it from the majority Christians living in Bethlehem where crescents and crucifixes tipped many mosques and churches.

All my life I asked about the purpose for living. It took me a few decades to conclude that God appointed the odd whom people ignored while the devil appointed the famous whom people worshipped. I always wondered, if “the people” made Rick Warren as America’s pastor, why then should I listen to “we the people”?

And when it came to the Bible I quickly found out how the wicked allegorized everything in it so that  the serpent in the garden of Eden was simply an allegory for evil. But I knew better. Even if we took the devil as an allegory for evil, evil still stung, poisoned and was extremely lethal.

Then I attended the church. In the church, freedom they said was that everyone has the right to interpret scripture while civil laws were not open to anyone’s interpretation. Why? Civil laws if everyone was allowed to interpret besides the lawyer and the judge would cause a chaos.

The Freedom of Speech they said was that everyone has a right to have an opinion, even the opinion on who should live and who should die. This became a right. Even the eugenists had a right to speak regardless that these are a perfect example of hypocrisy for eugenists only omit themselves from the process of elimination. The only thing about such opinions as the eugenicist is that this opinion-maker would never volunteer himself to become the first martyr for his opinion. But no cause is true unless the advocates are willing to die for it. Yet there is only one religion that its advocate was God where God was willing to offer God to die for it.

If everyone is supposed to be free to have whatever opinion including the right to interpret scripture, all we will get are a people left to themselves to repeat old mistakes over and over again. In fact all systems without the church setting up moral laws end up establishing slavery which is the cheapest mechanism for industrial production. Human beings always end up laboratory experiments where thinkers torture the slaves to accumulate evidence for their thesis. To the state the individual means nothing where all sacrifices must be made “for the people” and “by the people”. This was the story of Christ where one man had to die that the nation not perish (Jn 11:48-50). And what system did they use to crucify Christ? It was democracy where the majority vote counted deciding the fate of the only Son of God.

But they told me that this decision was good since the Son of God had to die.

No He didn’t. We deserved to all go to hell. It was only God’s Grace that was good. But God giving His Son was not done in order to rescue a majority, it was done so that a few enter the narrow gate while the bulk majority end up in hell. Sin entered via a democracy of two where the people unanimously made a choice but Judgment and salvation came from one single individual: Jesus Christ.

I realized that mankind belongs to God and not to self or to a nation. The wise realizes that his body does not belong to him but to God and so killing oneself is evil. Yet evil people believe that the body of a fetus is worth killing because they claim that freedom mandates that their body and the body of their children belongs to them. I wondered what difference is this from Islam?

Today Protestants believe in “birth control” which was popularized by Margarette Sanger, the founder of American Eugenics Society. But the only one who finally succeeded in instituting Eugenics was Adolf Hitler. So in reality it is the devil who is in control of all who practice birth control. It was the Manicheans who taught that suicide is noble since it is sacrifice and that a sexual perversion is good because it prevents life. The end results of the teaching by Calvinist leader John F. MacArthur are the same for he states:

Nothing in Scripture prohibits married couples from practicing birth control, either for a limited time to delay childbearing, or permanently when they have borne children and determine that their family is complete … In our viewpoint, birth control is biblically permissible. At the same time, couples should not practice birth control if it violates their consciences (Romans 14:23)—not because birth control is inherently sinful, but because it is always wrong to violate the conscience. The answer to a wrongly informed conscience is not to violate it, but rather to correct and rightly inform one’s conscience with biblical truth

So behold your Bible interpreters! Behold your freedom to interpret moral laws! Behold how you claim that the Holy Spirit speaks through this man!

Saying that “Nothing in Scripture prohibits married couples from practicing birth control” is like saying that “nothing in Scripture prohibits married couples from playing golf” as if “golf” and “having babies” are but the same thing. Is it not God Who opens the womb and closes the womb?

Then to say “In our viewpoint, birth control is biblically permissible” is as if the Bible gave an allowance since there is no such thing as “birth control” found in scripture.

And then to say “couples should not practice birth control if it violates their consciences (Romans 14:23)” when Paul in Romans 14 was simply trying to reconcile Jewish versus Non-Jewish dietary laws which presented a challenge to the early church.

God said “Do not tear God’s work because of food” but to this heretic it was ‘do not have children because of golf!’.

So to such heretics life was evaluated as a diet and conscience was evaluated as God and therefore worshipping self by saying “it is always wrong to violate the conscience”.

And if Jesus said the key is to look for the fruit where he cursed the tree that bore no fruit; wouldn’t it then be key in recognizing evil because it too shuts up the fruit of the womb before its time?

At least the pagans had children and they dedicated them for the god of nature and fruitfulness. The pagan then renders the Fundamentalist theology as barren and worse than the pagans. A pagan is not just someone who denies the existence of the biblical God, he is someone who strips away from what is God’s and is why Christ said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s for they forgot to render to God what is God’s.

One therefore is not to practice tax-evasion but he ought not evade God’s commandment to being fruitful and multiplying. This is why we find such few “ifs” in the Bible where Christ said if you love Me you will obey my commandments. Salvation is not just a mental belief that He saves.

I never heard strange interpretations. When I argued about works they yelled “Christ alone” and “salvation is only through Christ”. But preaching a single-liner like this is like saying that birth can only come through sex.

While it is true that sex alone brings life I ask: but what about a marriage contract, man’s responsibility to provide, to love his wife and be willing to die for her while she frugally and carefully deals with his money? Without these, this “sex alone” would be no salvation for the poor child!

They would say that my views on salvation are of no relevance since I am no theologian. It is as if matters of salvation should only be their opinion and the opinion of the theologian while only the priest and a millennia worth of Church fathers should not count. Amazingly, only these Catholics are not allowed to interpret.

If all can interpret who then can prevent the madmen? Who then can stop the Manicheans? I have seen friends go mad left on their own with no one to instruct. Heck almost all whom I knew in the counter Jihad Movement have gone the way of the eugenist.

It is then the church and not the Bible that prevents the sane from going mad which Christ Himself instituted “the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” (1 Timothy 3:15)

In reality the Catholic is more fundamental than the fundamentalist. Only the Catholic Church decided what Four Gospels the fundamentalist reads while all others gospels were cancelled only by the authority of the Catholic Church. So even the very New Testament the Protestant reads he reads because such authority he gains from the Catholic Church.

Therefore, the fundamentalist is still under the authority of the Catholic Church since it did not canonize the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Marcion, Gospel of Basilides, Gospel of Truth, Gospel of the Four Heavenly Realms, Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Judas, Gospel of Philip and many other gospels.

So even what the Protestant does not adhere to in these other gospels he does so under the authority of the Catholic Church, not the Protestant reformers.

One cannot put any book on the witness stand asking it to interpret itself. What the Protestant in reality claims is not “scripture alone”. This is a myth. What the fundamentalist protestant did was to re-establish new church fathers to interpret: Theodore Beza, Martin Bucer, Heinrich Bullinger, Johannes Hus, Luther, John Calvin, Andreas von Carlstadt, Wolfgang Fabricius Capito and Martin Chemnitz.

And yet today we even have modern Evangelical church fathers who now interpret where the multitudes follow. These are nothing like the others before them. Today they all turned out complete heretics like Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, David Barton, Ted Haggard, Bill Hybels, T.D. Jakes, Diane Knippers, Beverly LaHaye, Joyce Meyer, J.I. Packer, John Piper …

While these prohibit simple icons of images these made themselves the new icons of the fallen church.

The sane will lay side by side any of the double-spaced junk books these sell on the shelves of bookstores and compare them side by side with the writings of Polycarp, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Ignatius, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Saint Gregory the Great, St. Athanasius, St. Gregory of Nazianzus and St. John Chrysostom and what they will find is that God either changed his mind drastically to become the devil or that the latter fundamentalists are the sons of the devil.

The question I asked thousands of times which no man answered is this: did the Church Christ promised to build only came about in the sixteenth century?

What I finally found was that the most effective channels of God’s grace that work to communicate between God and His people are the ones most hated. These are the seven sacraments.

But Baptism they say is not for infants. However, preventing infants from being born they said was a sacred right and a sacrament.

The Eucharist they say is no miracle. However, the miracles of the tele-evangelist are.

Confirmation they say does not provide a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit while they claim they have the Holy Spirit who has countless contradictory interpretations of scripture.

Reconciliation or Confession to a Catholic priest they say is unnecessary for intercession, while the pastor can do intercessory prayers galore and it is accepted as a sacrament.

Confession to a priest works because it prevents a sin from being a secret working on the cleansing from the inside by aid of an attorney if you will who is qualified to explain the sinners infractions. The most lax of all church observances is the confessional where forgiveness by a priest is made easy.

Protestants however made forgiveness a mystery since sin remains to be discovered and therefore, the sinner is unaware of his own depravity thus unable to gain forgiveness for sins he must account for since scripture clearly says that no unclean can enter heaven.

Anointing of the sick as in “the last rights” they say is unnecessary for the forgiveness of sins while Scripture in James 5:14-15 clearly states: “Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.”

Yet heretics like John MacArthur would chop up the words in bold above when it comes to the elders anointing the sick.

I discovered that people who claim to obey the Bible the most chop it up the most while people who obey the church the most follow the Bible the most.

The sacrament of Marriage, which is the only means for pro-creation they say is necessary but couples do not necessarily have to have more children than their conscious demands became a new sacrament.

The sacrament of Holy Orders which Catholics chose to take from the Levitical order to set apart the priesthood, yet the other side, the Protestant chose only the 10% tithe from the Levitical order mounting the most enormous wealth to the ones with the biggest stadiums and they made that a sacrament.

It puzzles me every time I say all this in America; that the first response I get is from ‘Bible believers’ who instantly point at the immorality within the priesthood from someone who forgot that 97% of his people had premarital sex. Such observation is especially true when 97% of the claims by accusers of the Catholic Church are 100% inaccurate because the devil encourages heckling more than listening.

This is why if speech was made of silver reading original sources is made of gold. This is why I wonder at times why the most ignorant keep harping over their “freedom of speech” when they are the least who exercise their freedom to read both opposing views.

I have never once met a person who says that they are not for freedom, yet everyone I met are afraid of reading up on their enemy’s mindset lest they themselves convert to become the enemy.

My definition of Protestantism is simply interpreting scripture to defy the Catholic Church’s interpretation of scripture.

The one question one needs to ask is which one was there first, the Catholic Church or the Protestant ‘reformation’? This is why in reality mankind is more interested in denouncing the enemy more than they are interested in defining a belief system and is why Islam came along, to strictly defy Catholicism and is why it is at war with it and persecutes Catholics and Orthodox, rarely do they persecute Protestants.

But arguing over religion they say causes quarrels and therefore, the subject, they say, must be avoided. But reality is that quarrels start because people stop arguing and begin sneering.

I find that most who argue insisting we only quote scripture tend to act as if they smoke the Bible. They use the thin paper for zig-zag where if smoking marijuana was the subject of discussion they simply treat the issue as ‘venial sin’ and when I smoked tobacco at the entrances of their churches it was treated at times as a ‘mortal sin’ all the while they threw out my son for speaking against sodomy claiming that he should not exercise his “freedom of speech” for the cause of ‘love’.

These compare this sin to a child stealing from a cookie jar since in their private interpretation “sin is sin”. They expected God to give them a breakdown from the Bible on all what it meant and perhaps He should have sent us The Book Of Calvin which details a systematic theology with chapter and verse.

I finally discovered that this worship of love actually produced the worst form of hatred since their false god loves everyone except the ones who exposes sodomy. How does this god of theirs the god of love especially when they ignore the victims; the youth being daily brainwashed to believe that sodomy is just another lifestyle. These do not even realize their level of sin and how their premarital sex is abhorring to God.

America they say is the beacon of “religious freedom”. Yet I have never seen a people who attack the word “religion” more than Americans. ‘Love’ they say should be the dynamo for everything we do, except that they failed to give it, and instead they always offered ‘prayers’ as if one is to pray to elevate his key when it drops to the ground instead of picking it up to open the door. It is as if God condemned works and Jesus insisted that we only ‘pray’.

Yet almost everyone I saw walked around with a bundle of keys. Even key for religions. Everyone offered their keys to unlock the gate to God. I had such a key. I had thought it opened the door to paradise until one day I tried the key and the grooves just did not match the holy lock. I ended up finding out that every dogma on life and eternity from every religion besides the original church rejected one verse regarding keys; Peter’s keys.

Why would Peter only have such keys? And since Protestantism is solely an attack on things Catholic, they would argue endlessly on the word “this” in “thou art Peter and upon this rock”.

They say that this “this” is Jesus and not Peter. They say that “the rock” here is Christ.

They say this while ignoring that the “thee” in “I [Jesus] will give unto thee they keys of the kingdom of heaven” is handing over such keys to Peter. Jesus also told Peter “and whatsoever thou [Peter] shalt bind upon earth it shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

Any sane mind can see that Peter and not strictly “Jesus alone” is to speak for heaven in binding and loosing.

Then they would ask and ask a multitude of questions: was Peter supreme and infallible? Did Christ confer papal privileges on Peter’s successors? Was Peter the first Bishop of Rome? Did Peter himself or the rest of the apostles recognize his divine appointment? …

It is the similar questions Lucifer asked the wife of the first appointed authority: “Did God really say that you must not eat from any tree in the garden?” (Genesis 3:1)

They would instantly argue “in the Greek language, ‘rock’ is petra but ‘Peter’ is Petros; they are two different words. Petra they say means ‘rock,’ while Petros meaning ‘little pebble’. Therefore, Jesus isn’t even mentioning Peter when He says ‘upon this rock’. All this plus “Jesus is the only Rock” and “Jesus is our only shepherd”.

Yet in scripture we find God is the “rock,” and in Isaiah 51:1-2 Abraham is also a “rock” and David in 2 Samuel 5:2 and in Ephesians 2:20 Christ shares the foundation with the “apostles and prophets.”

And as for this “Rock” is concerned, in John one we find: “Thou art Simon the son of Jona. Thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter” (John 1:42). The word “Cephas” comes to the Greek language from the Aramaic. Kepha means “rock” which is etymologically linked to the Greek word kephale (head).

So Peter is both “rock” and “head.”

But they still argue that it was Andrew who invited his brother Simon to follow Jesus (John 1:40-42). It was Andrew who confesses to Simon that they have found the Messiah.  Andrew therefore was the first disciple called by Jesus.

Yet in Matthew 10 we find “And the names of the twelve Apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him” (Matt. 10:2-4).

So which of the two was first? Did God err?

Hardly. St. Matthew says “the first is Simon who is called Peter”. While St. Andrew was called first, Matthew here is not giving us a sequential list of the apostles but a hierarchical list.

And in Mark 3:14-19 and Luke 6:13-16 the Bible makes it clear, Peter is named first while St. Matthew’s word “first” is in the Greek, protos where we get words like “prototype” to mean Peter was both top in sequence and rank. Even Paul uses this same word “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief  [protos].”

Not only was Peter the center of authority throughout the New Testament but even Christ told him “I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren” (Luke 22:31-32). It was to Peter that the authority of confirmation was given making Peter the foundation “rock”.

For two millennia Peter was taught to the church as the first leader where Paul after his conversion spending three years in Damascus went to Jerusalem to see Peter where he “tarried with him fifteen days.” To St. John Chrysostom the reason Paul went to see Peter first because Peter was “the leader of the band” while Origen writes that Paul acted so “because of [Peter’s] office, no doubt.” (De Praescriptione Haereticorum, XXIII.)

Then when all ammunition runs out, they would argue that the word “Pope” is not in scripture so you counter “neither is the word protestant” and then they counter back saying that they are not “protestant but Christian” and we counter back “and so are we” but why only they insist on finding labels in scripture? Then they would argue that Paul wrote more scripture than Peter and we counter that Paul wrote more scripture than Jesus. So what?

Yet all of them call evil good and good evil. Evil can easily masquerade as good to the naïve! There must be then a key for everyone to easily find—a key that unlocks your heart to see your inner soul.

The key to know if you bare fruit is this: “All who hate God love death.” (Proverbs 8:36) To love God then is to fight birth control, love life, not just to love our own life, but also everyone’s, to hate evil, not just one specific evil but all evil.

But the noble mission is identified when one rids all ‘the faithful’ from ignorance. It can only be accomplished by stepping on the toes of all who say they adhere to the one true God; Jews, with conservative and reformed, Muslims with all their sects and Protestants with all sorts of squabbling rival denominations.

The honest is recognized because at times he exposes his own sect to win some, while the wolf never crosses the line within his own sect because he fears loosing all. The honest intends to lose most and only gain some for his wisdom falls under Christ’s “He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” The same should be when we deliver our message, we always try to lose knowing always that we will only gain but few who seek “the narrow gate”.


  • Vinny Zee

    Really great article. Personal testimonies, in my opinion, still speak more than a thousand books on theology and dogma and law. John said in Revelation that we stand on the word of our testimony. They can burn our churches, take our books but they can never take our testimony. From my experience, one’s testimony has done more to convert people than theology. One can refute dogma, but how does one refute another’s testimony? Yes, the testimony has to be grounded in the truth, this I understand. But the living, breathing, word of God emanating from a living breathing human speaks more than words on a page in a book in a library.

    • susan

      You are so right! Personal witness is what matters. And still I wonder for we are to test the spirits. How can so many “personal witnesses” from so many different religions ALL be true? And if they ALL be true then why should i have become Catholic with all its “rules” and “regulations”? Who is speaking for Christ these days? For where there is a vacuum satan will surely fill it.

      • Vinny Zee

        Hi Susan, I am assuming when you put “rules” and “regulations” in quotes it is because this is what Evangelicals tell you and say? This is why I did also say the witness does have to be grounded in truth. Sure, a Yoga expert can say their experience is what makes it true. I never said the “experience” is what makes it true. Our witness is borne out of our grounding in the truth. We love as Jesus loved, we live as Jesus lived. At the parable of the wheat and the tares we learn it is God who ultimately judges, not us. Today is Corpus Christi. What a beautiful witness. This witness, the body and blood of Christ, is a witness the protestant has denied themselves and tragically with confidence. Blessings be upon you.

        • susan

          Dear Vinnie, i knew you would understand my meaning. And you say it in a way that more can understand. I’m wondering if anyone else is having difficulty with parishioners that come in wanting to change the Catholic Church into a Protestant one. And when they don’t get what they want they use their purse. It’s very upsetting and poses a difficult dilemma for the Bishop. It’s no wonder the Saints spoke of seeing so many Bishops in hell.
          Blessing to you and yours Vinnie. And what a wonderful gift Walid has given us in exposing his life for us. 🙂

          • Tom_mcewen

            Well, to me I don’t think of them as rules and regulations but as a guard rails on a mountain road, you are free to drive through the guard rail with that freedom tied to results.

          • susan

            I love the “rules” and “regulations”. They have safeguarded souls for centuries and now they will safeguard mine too. ;).

          • CTyank

            I like to think of life as absolute freedom. One can do whatever one desires. God respected you enough to give you free will in any situation. One only need endure the consequences of ones deeds, fair or foul, temporal or eternal. It is better to obey your Father. Happy Fathers Day to the Dads.

          • DantesRivers

            Hi Susan as a recent Protestant convert to a Byzantine Catholic I am going to make an effort to learn and not try to change anything.
            Why try change what has worked for almost 2000 years.

            But here is my take on the new “rules” and “regulations”
            I am finding freedom and grace in Eastern Rite Catholicism.
            The Devine Liturgy of St John’s Chrysostom is full of grace.
            Accepting the Authority of the Catholic church removes a huge burden from my shoulders. (no more endless search for the correct doctrine.) Rest in the teaching of my Parish .
            Confessing my Sins to a Priest in my mind is a grace.
            Receiving the Eucharist is a grace.
            Honoring the Virgin Mary is a grace.
            Rejecting the false authority of the Protestants is a grace
            Being able to attend Latin mass on days there is no Liturgy is a Grace.
            Yes I have much to learn and it takes effort but what a gain!
            Robert Shaw — “Messiah” His Yoke Is Easy

          • Amen to all of the above.

          • Vinny Zee

            Welcome home my friend.

          • Kamau41

            Amen. Well said across the board!

          • susan

            Hi there! A Byzantine Catholic? :).

            I was wondering. Is it permissible to use an electric candle instead of the real candle representing Christ’s presence? For some reason this disturbs me greatly whenever I see an electric candle used there.

          • DantesRivers

            I had not noticed. I will check it out Sunday.

          • DantesRivers

            I am happy to report there was no electric candle in the Liturgy.

            Perhaps the people who liked the electric candle separated and became The First Electric Candle Baptist Church 🙂

          • susan

            Lol. :D. ;). Thank you.

          • Vinny Zee

            Well I think there was a Protestantization of the church with Vatican II, but which I think is also being reversed. Many old timers, like my parents, welcomed the new changes when things were put into the vernacular. However, I think they were also blind to many of the other changes. However, looking back on nearly 60 years since Vatican II, with the decreasing clergy, lack of vocations, closings of schools and dwindling influence, many are calling for the church to return to her 2000 year old roots. I think the problem with Protestants either returning to the church or converting is that they still allow their protestant biases to remain. The ever questioning, never satisfied edge of Protestantism. Therefore, rather than understand a tradition or the meaning behind something, they ignore it or questions it. Additionally, because “freedom” is so rampant in Protestantism, if they feel a little “stuffy” then they either rebel or lead others into rebellion. I think there are many who want license and wonder why they can’t have Catholicism with a little license. It is like the Jews who looked at the nations around them and rejected Samuel and wanted a King. God told Samuel it wasn’t him they were rejecting but God. Likewise, I fear there have been some circles that look at the evangelical flavors around them and wonder “why can’t we have it like that?”

            It doesn’t help that in November 2016, in an interview, Pope Francis criticized the “rigidity” of young people who are attached to the Traditional Latin Mass. He said, “I always try to understand what’s behind people who are too young to have experienced the pre-conciliar liturgy and yet still they want it.” “Sometimes I found myself confronted with a very strict person, with an attitude of rigidity. And I ask myself: Why so much rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.” I don’t think Benedict XVI had such a view of those who desired the pre-conciliar liturgy. We are at an interesting time in the faith.

          • Стефан Евгений
  • “The question I asked thousands of times which no man answered is this: did the Church Christ promised to build only came about in the sixteenth century?”

    Nope. The Church began when Christ called the Twelve with Peter at the head and continues to this day.

    Enjoyed your testimony and I envy your ability to withstand peer pressure.

    • technician

      I think its interesting that Walid talked about the 7 sacraments, because yesterday I was reading about them on a Catholic church’s website. I know so little about the Catholic church as a pentecostal. But as I read about the sacraments I was thinking to myself, what’s wrong with any of these? Nothing. So I’m warming up to the Catholic church lately. I know Walid speaks often of the Coptic church in Egypt. I think I will do some research because I’m just curious when and how the Coptic church was founded. I’m also curious what the name “Coptic” means. I’ll have to look it up.

      • Coptic is simply a reference to the fact they are Egyptian Orthodox Church, part of the Oriental Orthodox Church branch. They were founded by St. Mark the Evangelist whose Book bears his name, the Gospel according to St. Mark.

        • technician

          That is awesome. Thank you.

      • DantesRivers

        “I know so little about the Catholic”
        I did not know the Roman Catholics had a mass available almost every day. You can pray with others,hear the word or Holy Tradition, sing a Hymn partake of the Eucharist with others almost every day if schedule permits. Much better than a “quite time” although personal time alone in prayer and bible reading etc is good.

        • technician

          I have watched a couple catholic masses on youtube from somewhere in the U.S. I did really like the traditional hymns they sang. Not that music is everything, but I don’t care for some of the more contemporary music that seems to be more “me” focused rather than Christ focused.

          • DantesRivers

            Orthodox Liturgy

            The Byzantine Catholics and the Russian Orthodox use the
            Devine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom which came from Constantine’s Byzantine Empire. The Byzantine Empire lasted over a thousand years.

          • DantesRivers

            Before converting to Catholic, from the above creed I felt I could honestly say I believed everything but one statement.

            “Who spoke through the prophets. In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.”

            I confessed this sin to the priest before my chrismation into the
            church. (i.e. I submitted to their authority.)

            Larry Norman – 13 – One Way

          • DantesRivers

            I Wish We’d All Been Ready

          • mspip

            believe every bit of this except one word….

          • Grandmere

            Here’s one for you. Scroll down for the words.

      • If you are serious about learning the Coptics theology, I cannot recommend “Comparative Theology” by the late Pope Shenouda III (yes, the Coptics have their own pope).

        It is caused me to drop all prejudice against the Catholic Church.

        • Vinny Zee

          Very in depth but it is well worth the read. It explains just about anything one would like to know about the Copts.

          • Noticed how he used “Scriptures Alone” to refute?

          • Vinny Zee

            Yes, not because its a principle but because we love and adore the scriptures more than the Protestants do. Its one of our authorities, which can certainly operate on its own. Its not our only authority, a principle which has been binding Protestants since their deformation.

        • technician

          Thank you brother, I hope to have time to be reading that in the next few days.

        • technician

          I have read more than half of it now. It’s very rich in theology and the explanations are very good.

          • You are on way then. That’s how I decided to embrace Catholic-Orthodoxy instead of remaining in ignorance of Protestantism.

          • technician

            You used to be a Protestant then? I never would have guessed.

          • Yep. Grew up as a Baptist. Attended a Pentecost church as a young adult where I was actively involved as an usher, led a bible study group for the deaf, and involved in a food pantry ministry (my favorite part of that church). Later left that church and when I remarried, I was member of a Foursquare church for a while until a new pastor came in and changed things. It was around the time the stupid “Purpose Driven Life” books came out.

            During the time between being in Foursquare and Anglican Catholic, I almost became an atheist because of all the scandals among ALL churches (not just Catholics) but I could not walk away from the Truth. It was part of who I am.

            This website and a few key readers have helped me find the richness of the Apostolic Church and I haven’t looked back.

      • Vinny Zee

        This is exactly where it started for me. When I was still an Evangelical, I was a Voice of the Martyrs representative. One month we were reporting on the Coptic Christians during the ill-fated “Arab Spring” under which they endured so much persecution. I had to ask myself (and I was raised Catholic but was away from the church at the time), “who are these Coptic Christians?” It was from there until my return to Catholicism that I thankfully went home. I was Pentecostal myself for a time. If you every have any thoughts or questions, I’d be glad to walk through them with you. You will find those that comment here are not drive by commenting, but hand around and get to know and encourage one another. But regarding the Copts, they were founded by St. Mark when he spread the gospel there. I had to think to myself, “we still have a church today founded by an apostle?” (Even as a young Catholic I never gave apostolic succession much thought.) As an Evangelical, I did not think it existed. Your Pentecostal church probably teaches and believes it is the church of Acts. But do you know their history? All of today’s modern Pentecostal churches (be it 4-square, AG, etc) are borne out of the In 1901 experience at Bethel Bible College, Topeka, Kansas, when Agnes Ozman received what she called the baptism of the Spirit and spoke in “tongues.” The practice then became part of the Holiness movement of the church in the United States. In 1906, tongues were spoken on Azusa Street in Los Angeles, California, and out of these two events in 1901 and 1906 grew the mainline Pentecostal denominations which are still with us today (Assemblies of God, etc).

        So you have the Copts whose roots go back to the first Century and can follow their succession back there to Egypt. You have the Roman Catholic Church which can follow its roots to Rome and we can list every Pope all the way back to Peter. Then you have the Pentecostal movement of today that can follow its roots back just over 100 years. Which one would you rather follow? Thank you for being here.

        • technician

          Thank you Vinny Zee. Yes I knew the general history of the Pentecostal movement and that it is quite young, even compared to other reformation movements. I still love pentecostal churches, for the most part they preach with power to get people saved. (Some are better than others ofcourse.) But like you say, just knowing there is a church still existing today that was found by one of the original apostles is pretty cool!

          • Vinny Zee

            The continuous splitting among Pentecostals, those that fell into oneness Pentecostalism and the overall view Pentecostals had toward other denominations was enough for me. I spent about 3 years in an AG church. Once I left I went back to the Southern Baptist tradition for about 10 years, which was also my final journey out of Protestantism. There are many well to do, God fearing Christians within Pentecostal churches. I knew many. I would never say anything against their zeal and love for the Holy Scriptures. Tragically many of them are inept about early Christianity after the close of Revelation.

          • ace

            From a Catholic theological perspective, some make a distinction between “jubilation” (exuberant joyful noises) and “tongues” an actual speaking in a known language (unknown to the speaker) or the person speaking in their own language, but understood by someone in their own different language. Saint Augustine said that in his own time, “tongues” was no longer present, but he encouraged people to “jubilate”. Read more here:

            But, through the centuries, there are saints such as St. Vincent Ferrer (1350-1490) who had a true gift of tongues, preaching in one language and understood by others in their own language. Read about this amazing saint here (from “Raised from the Dead”, True Stories of 400 Resurrection Miracles, by Fr. Albert J. Hebert, S. M.): [I do not know enough about this ministry to say one way or the other, but the book from which they publish a chapter is quite orthodox.]

            [Also, read what I wrote Vinny.]

          • Vinny Zee

            Over 700 miracles were read during his canonization of St. Vincent Ferrer and they stopped because there were too many documented cases for them to read. He raised over 30 persons from the dead, delivered over 70 persons from demonic possession and converted over 25,000 Jews, 8,000 Muslims, and many heretics to the Catholic Church. He could go into a Synagogue or Mosque and convert all of them in one homily.

          • ace

            Amazing and wonderful, no? Blessed be God in His angels and in His saints (From the Divine Praises)!

          • ace

            Here’s a book recommendation “No Price too High: A Pentecostal Preacher Becomes Catholic”

            “…Alex came to the startling conclusion that the present day Catholic Church – and the Holy Mass – is the same exact ‘worship service’ from the very early Church. Alex began to share his findings with his parish, and eventually Alex, and most of his parish, joined the Catholic Church. This is his incredible story of a black Pentecostal minister’s challenging and dramatic spiritual journey, and the flock that followed him…”

          • Vinny Zee

            I wonder why he deleted all of his comments?

          • ace

            The world is full of mysteries & need for prayer. Thanks for the heads up.

        • ace

          Here’s something you may not know:

          “…On the promptings of Sr. Elena, Pope Leo XIII issued several important documents concerning the Holy Spirit. First in 1895, he wrote an apostolic letter, Provida Matris Caritate, which he ended by asking all the faithful to celebrate a solemn novena (nine days of prayer) to the Holy Spirit between the feasts of Ascension and Pentecost for the intention of the reunion of Christianity. A second document was an encyclical letter on the Holy Spirit in 1897, Divinum Illud Munus, again he ended by drawing the attention of the faithful to the solemn novena he had requested in 1895. He stated that the novena was not to be limited to a only one year but was to be a perpetual novena, done every year between the feasts of Ascension and Pentecost, again for the same intention of the reunion of Christianity.

          Another important event, again at the request of Sr. Elena, took place on January 1, 1901. Pope Leo XIII invoked the Holy Spirit by singing the hymn Veni Creator Spiritus, in the name of the entire Church. Also on that very day, halfway around the world in Topeka, Kansas, at the Bethel College and Bible School, an outpouring of the Holy Spirit occurred which is generally accepted as the beginning of Pentecostalism. Then the Azusa Street revival of 1906 led by the Afro-American William J. Seymour propelled Pentecostalism across all continents with in two years…”
          [Also read what I wrote technician.]

          • Vinny Zee

            Interesting ACE, I did not know about this article you linked up. I have a question for you? Because this is a question I have. You have the events of 1/1/1901 in the Catholic Church and then you have, what is by and large, a private revelation in Topeka, Kansas. See one of the reasons I left Pentecostalism was that my concern is how Pentecostalism started. This article seems to be that of the Charismatic movement within Catholicism. My point is that Pentecostalism is so opposed to Catholicism in doctrine that is it possible God had a pouring out of the Spirit on the same day to the church and a church opposed to the church? I’ll have to think on this more. A little pressed for time at the moment so not sure I’ve communicated all my thoughts.

          • ace

            Getting ready to go to Mass here, which I do most days, so a short response for now. God desires that all his people be one, but God always surprises us when we think we know everything. To be anti-Catholic is not of God. The greatest miracle is that God gives himself to us Body, Blood, soul, and divinity in the Holy Eucharist and that he frees us from the bondages of sin, the devil, and death, our true enemies.

            I like to blow people’s mind with the fact I gave, because Pentecostals can think sometimes that God rained down his Spirit full-blown on them out of nowhere. It was the new year of 1901 in the Vatican before the new year came in Topeka, Kansas. God is in control, but God in not limited. The fullness of his blessings reside in the Church. St. Augustine of Hippo said crede, ut intelligas, “believe so that you may understand”; Tract. Ev. Jo., 29.6 and Anselm of Canterbury said Credo ut intelligam “I believe so that I may understand” echoing Augustine. The Pentecostal or the Evangelical who keeps searching for God and his fullness will wind up in the Catholic Church. I’ve seen it happen more than once and read of it in several conversion stories.

            God told us to test all spirits and that by their fruits you will know them. If one is focusing on the Trinitarian God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, one will surely find Him who goes seeking for us first. It is not about the “gifts” or the “miracles” which are surely present in the Church. It is also not about who is the best in apologetics, although surely there are those who have these gifts in abundance. Rather, it is, as Paul tells us when he says that he preaches Jesus Christ and Him crucified and about taking up one’s cross daily and following Him.

            Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church is great if it draws people closer to knowing Him in the Eucharist, Holly Scripture, and Holy Tradition. It can be a good thing to have in one’s background, to worship at Mass and at prayer groups, especially with some Hispanics, some from Africa, and elsewhere, and a Mass where the gifts of the Spirit are present is awesome, but there can also be an over-focus on the gifts and if one is not moved to help neighbor, persecuted Christians, and be doing the works of the Father, then one’s faith is dead…

            Ask more specifically, and I’ll read for your questions later…

          • Vinny Zee

            Well I really have no questions, the Church is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Those 4 marks are the marks of the Church. The protestants have been trying to focus on so many other “marks” because they can’t get around what the Council of Nicaea said almost 1700 years ago now. However, I know so many wonderful people who are Pentecostals, I choose to tread lightly in my criticisms though I am not uncertain about what they are. Pentecostals need to understand they are Protestants. They are not some existence outside of Catholicism/Orthodoxy and the Protestant Reformation. I think they have tried to elevate themselves to some elite status, “marked by an outpouring of the Spirit on them.” The Church of God and the Church of Christ make these same arguments. However, all of them, including JW and Mormons are all Protestants because they were started by them. Yesterday being Corpus Christi was a wonderful reminder or the blessing we have in the Eucharist.

          • ace

            You nailed it and have the right conviction and true faith. Protestants are seen in the Bible in John 6:66. But, you are right in the sense of the holy fervor of some Pentecostals who are not anti-Catholic. And, yes, the Holy Spirit does sometimes fall on those outside the camp (Num 11:29). Still, who would wish to be deprived of the Holy Eucharist? Nevertheless, there is a great call for evangelization of lukewarm Catholics. Furthermore, God never takes back his gifts, so if you have received some gifts or favors and if you have developed some virtue such as study of Scripture or an hour of daily prayer (which you can now do in Adoration) you should continue using your gifts and following your virtuous habits, as all things do indeed work to the good for them that love the Lord.

          • Vinny Zee

            Catholics have to learn to stop being stunned in their tracks by “bible believing Christians.” This term right there puts Catholics on the defensive. Protestants have a few ploys that try to put Catholics on the defensive and they feel they are always fighting out of the corner. Catholics have to learn what their ploys are, learn their scripture and learn their faith and why we believe what we believe. Then any Catholic can learn to hold a conversation with a Protestant, not feel awkward and ultimately set them back in their place. Catholics have to remember they have the truth. Many are tepid to say, “we are the church, we have the faith, we have the succession.” Because so many Catholics are devoid of perhaps knowing scripture, they feel inadequate to discuss with someone who does. However, even if a Catholic looks to the liturgy, they will find so much in it that can help them defend themselves. Catholics need to remember we have the truth and not the Protestants. It should not be Protestants setting the tone of the conversation, but instead we should force them to explain themselves and their changing of the faith to us and not vice-versa.

          • The Vinny hath spoken. Viva Vinny.

          • Ukchristian

            Vinny, apologies for getting your name wrong in a previous comment. I am still a “Protestant” at the moment and have never considered myself anything other than a “bible believing Christian” that tries to Love God with all my heart. I have always tried to be prepared to give a reason for what I believe (1 Peter 3, 15). I’d like to think most other “Christians” that I’ve known think the same way! I’ve started reading “the faith of our Fathers” that you have recommended and have absolutely no argument with it so far. Catholics are pretty thin on the ground and most of my discussions have been with Jehovah Witnesses that knock on my door and those being drawn into Chrislam. I’m meeting with another believer on Saturday, someone that I have known for about forty years and I will be telling him that I am on the verge of becoming a Catholic. It should be an interesting discussion…

            Maybe we are different over here but we by and large don’t bash each other here and encourage one another. I do know someone that does need prayer though because he does think that the Pope is the ac, he is in his eighties and needs to be Zapped with the Holy Spirit, his name is Don and I can’t tell him anything because he knows it all! Walid if you are reading this, when did you become a Catholic as a few years ago you were identifying yourself as a Copt? Get your fellow Catholics to read the letters, Is start with Colossians, mind blowing when I first read it. You could try Peter, he does say Paul is a bit hard to follow though. Read Psalm 119, 18 first.

          • Grandmere

            Don’t worry about it. As an Anglican, I’m like road kill. I get nailed coming and going. Just keep reading and praying. May God bless you.

          • Ukchristian

            Thank you. It’s not as though I am fighting not to become a Catholic. Praying for wisdom has brought me here.

            I believe Isaiah 1.18

            God bless you too.

          • Kamau41

            You are on the journey to eventually come home. The fact that you are seeking is a very good sign. I highly recommend to check out and listen in on Catholic Answers.

          • Vinny Zee


            Thanks for the follow up and great to hear. You are going a lot farther than most, and certainly farther than you 80 y.o. friend. No one ever said the conversion happens over night. There are countless stories of people who studied for decades before converting to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. There is no formula. But you are going farther than most in that you have opened your heart and mind to hear from the fathers of the church. Their faith speaks for itself. More than I can. I do not have to make an apology for them, their apologetics stands on their own. Unfortunately, what you will have to battle is the mindset that to become Catholic is to cease to be Christian. You must remind those who come with said attack that to become Catholic is to embrace all that Christianity is, not just a segment or a piece. You will also learn, we are “bible believing too.” The difference between the Catholic and the Protestant (that will shock them to hear) is that we believe all of it, every word. This is the reason our dogmas and canons and doctrines take centuries to develop. We don’t take one verse of scripture and build an entire theology off of it. Instead, we look at the whole of scripture, we look at the whole of tradition, and we allow the Church (the pillar and ground of the truth – 1 Tim 3:15) to make the final decision. Scripture, Tradition and the Church, these three are our foundation to know we are walking in the truth. God Bless you friend and as I stated before I am always here to offer any thoughts, guidance or assistance I can by the Grace of God.

          • Ukchristian


            It’s the tradition bit that is the obstacle at the moment but if I am meant to become a Catholic CHRISTIAN I will do. Apologies for shouting!

            1 Peter 4, 16 talks about the suffering of Christians, it does not mention Catholic or Copt or anything else for that matter. I am happy with the title Christian thank you! Even in the DRA it says Christian so I am not going to cease being called that even if and when I convert for anyone.

            It would appear that most of the obstacles are on the Catholic side of the fence; accepting the fact that I was baptised by total immersion (even my saviour was baptised as an adult even though he didn’t need to be) as a young adult and being married outside of the Catholic Church approaching 36 years ago. I took my vows seriously and still do.

            I have met people in my current church that don’t believe every word but I do.

            Thanks for your offer of friendship, much appreciated.

          • Vinny Zee

            You can find the word Catholic first being used by Ignatius around 100 AD, and also by Irenaeus very early on. This is probably due to the fact the church, united, was also universal. It was one church as it spread. Yes, I am aware the Church of Christ argues for example, they are the true Church because you find the words, “church of Christ” being used in the bible so that was its name. Remember it is not the name that was what signified the church, but the keys. The keys to the Church were given to Peter. Those that were with Peter were in union with him. Thus the Catholic Church, from which we find the chair of Peter, has always been the Catholic Church. This is what defines it, its unity. Regarding your marriage, great testimony. The Catholic Church can most certainly recognize (and will) a valid marriage. Sanation of a marriage, a cleaning at the root, is basically the Catholic Church looking at a valid marriage, such as yours, and saying it is valid and though it was not before the church, they can validate it as if it had been before the church originally. Remember, it is two people who marry one another. They Church does not marry anyone. The church only stands as a witness to a man and a woman vowing they will live in a marital state permanently (until death do they part) and the are open to bring forth new life in the marital relationship. These two marks, signify marriage. The Church stands as a witness to this at the time of the vows. Therefore, you and your wife are married and the Church can come along (even 36 years later) and stand as a witness as if it had from day one and declare this marriage valid, holding to the marks of marriage to which they will validate.

            Remember finally about Baptism. Evangelicals often make it about the mode. Jesus said to baptize all nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He made no distinction about mode. What makes your baptism valid (similar to your marriage) is that you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The mode of how that is done is not the point. Some eastern Traditions do triple immersion. One for each member of the Trinity. Some do by pouring, which can be found mentioned as early as the Didache, which dating has being written at the time of the New Testament letters. Remember, your baptism is valid because of the Trinitarian formula not the mode. Protestants later tried to make the mode as what validate a baptism.

            Finally on Tradition. The Apostolic Oral Tradition is what our tradition is. Any oral teaching inspired by the Holy Spirit to the Apostles is the only tradition we are dogmatically inclined to obey. Remember friend, there are NO extant originals of any of the New Testament writings. All we have are copies, which is why we have textual variants and ultimately so many translations. Therefore, anyone who challenges “tradition” as scant and skeptical would have the same problem with the bible if we’re honest with it. We have about 5,000 COPIES of the original documents. None of the originals any of the apostles wrote on have been found. Even the dead sea scrolls are copies. So if someone wants to give you beef about, “how do we know the Catholic Church has preserved tradition?” This same argument could be applied to how one can know we hold an accurate copy of the bible in our hands. This is why we rely on Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium (authority of the church) to help us know what we have been taught and what the tradition and scripture is saying. Blessings be upon you.

          • Ukchristian


            Thank you for your reply, I don’t think you meant “Sanation of a marriage” did you? I’m trying to get to grips with new terminology but that one does not make sense; “Polish political movement”.
            I am glad that the Catholic Church don’t just marry anyone. In my parish church (c of e) there was an infant Christening/Baptism recently and not one of the Christening party participated in the Eucharist afterwards, this just would not happen in other churches that I have belonged to. So is that Christening valid? For me this is why I think adult Baptism is best. I was Christened as a child in the C of E but never confirmed so I am a bit of a hotch potch. Would I be expected to be confirmed? Many thanks.

          • Vinny Zee

            Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush to get to another obligation earlier as I was typing my reply and I wanted to make sure I addressed all of your questions. Funny stuff on the Polish Political Movement, I can see how Google would supplant my thinking. I was referencing however a Radical Sanation, which is from the Code of Canon Law, Can. 1161 §1. “The radical sanation of an invalid marriage is its convalidation without the renewal of consent, which is granted by competent authority and entails the dispensation from an impediment, if there is one, and from canonical form, if it was not observed, and the retroactivity of canonical effects.” Basically, it means a “cleaning at the root.” The Bishop “convalidates” the marriage, i.e. without the renewal of consent. There does not have to be marriage vows all over again. They were said once and the Bishop convalidates it that there was “competent authority” and there was no “impediment.” I am not a canon lawyer, so I am not going to try and parse the entire law. But basically an impediment could be:

            1. Mental impairment
            2. Age of Consent/lack of consent
            3. Previous Marriage (which is probably the biggest)
            4. Polygamy, etc

            Therefore, they say the marriage outside the church lacked to proper “canonical form” which would be the official term and apply the correct canonical form retroactively. I can understand how many would say, “Ha, see, legalism!” However, there are specific reasons for the proper canonical form, and again, that being the permanence of marriage. Again, the biggest being whether someone had a previous marital relationship that was not annulled. Basically, the Catholic Church has always been careful to hold up the permanence of marriage and therefore these are the issues they will investigate before standing as a witness to the marriage of a man and women. This digresses to another point as to why same sex marriage is ultimately invalid.

            Earlier I mentioned to you there are two points which validate a marriage, permanence and openness to bringing forth life. Even if one is sterile, if they are open to the possibility (like Sarah) then they can certainly enter into a valid marriage. Same sex couples, while they can be open to living in the state of permanence cannot be open to bringing forth new life with one another because it is not possible. Two men or two women can not biologically accomplish this with one another. Thus this is what would make a marriage between them invalid. Additionally, couples who enter into marriage with no intent or desire to bring forth children and openly and blatantly sterilize themselves or on shallow ground, and again I am not a canon lawyer, so I will not get into whether this type of marriage is invalid. I will trust God and the Church. In the final analysis, while some cry “legalism” you can see the many different aspects that must be considered because of the seriousness and permanence of marriage, which the church has had to consider. I think you mentioned the Church of England (C of E?) Wasn’t this the entire issue for Henry VII and why the church split off from the Catholic Church because Pope Clement wouldn’t grant his divorce from Catharine of Aragon so that he could marry Anne Boleyn. So the Canon laws developed as the church has had address all of these issues. The same-sex, birth-control, Abortion issues are big ones which the Church again today has answered.

            Have you followed any of the controversy around Pope Francis exhortation Amoris Lataetia? It is causing so much stir because it has been interpreted that he has hinted at communion for the divorced and remarried. This is contrary to 2000 years of established church doctrine and teaching on this topic. People think the Pope can do what he wants. He has received a dubia from 4 Cardinals who are asking for clarity on the letter. So when Church teaching and one’s private opinion come into conflict, the church is quick to respond for the sake of doctrine and the laity.

            Finally remember, what makes a baptism valid is that it is done in the Trinitarian formula, not because the members didn’t stay for the Eucharist. Blessings be upon you my friend.

          • “Still, who would wish to be deprived of the Holy Eucharist?”

            A great many, regrettably.

          • ace

            But, we who are gathered together from the ends of the earth and become one in His Church and in His kingdom which begins here on earth say, “give us this day our epiousion bread” The Bread of Life, the Bread which sustains us is the Holy Eucharist.

            (The Greek word means “supersubstantial” or “above substantial”. Strong’s G1967 indicates that epiousios appears exactly 2 times where the Our Father prayer appears: Mt 6:11 and Lk 11:3. According to Thayer’s, ” Origen testifies [de orat. 27] that the word was not in ordinary speech, and accordingly seems to have been coined by the Evangelists themselves.”)

          • Indeed, and more importantly, the Eucharist is the manna sent from heaven. Only gather enough for one day else it becomes worms food the next day.

          • Anthony

            The Pentecostal or the Evangelical who keeps searching for God and his fullness will wind up in the Catholic Church.

            I second this and it’s so true, this is what happened to me but one remaining thing is key… a love for the truth. Paul says that those that are handed over to all things ungodly happen because they did not love the truth. It makes sense that Jesus would say that you shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you free. It’s so Mich more than an emotion, it’s with our will and intellect that we come to the full knowledge of the truth and are set free. Oh and pray the rosary daily lol, I see the fruits of it and it is the best prayer to pray if you had to choose only one prayer as a whole. My mother has returned to the church with me and it looks like my sister will soon come around, I have her praying the rosary as well. I pray all those around me shall be saved. God bless and amen

          • ace

            Jn 8:32 is one of my favorite verses. Praise God that he is using you to bring your family back to the Church! May God bless you and Mary keep you under her protection and mantle.

          • Anthony

            Thank you ace and God bless you too, my dad has some problems with the catholic church but they are slowly falling off with the prayers of the rosary. I tell him he has to understand the times we are living in and the church is in crisis but the faith will never die. Amen, our Lord has truly chosen to use His Blessed Mother to crush any and every demonic thing, especially satan himself. Ave Maria gratia plena. 🙂

          • technician

            I have a lot of reading to do from all the responses I’m getting lol.

          • Don’t feel too bad. My priest-in-charge at the Anglican Catholic parish gave me 4 books to read!

          • Kkdgrace

            May I ask which books?

          • So sorry…I just scrolled through Disqus and saw you had asked me those books.

            “The Practice of Religion: A Short Manual of Instructions and Devotion,” Archibald Campbell Knowles.

            “Anglican Catholic: Faith & Practice,” The Most Reverend Mark Haverland, Archbishop of the Anglican Catholic Church.

            “Yesterday, Today And Forever: Jesus Christ and The Holy Trinity in the Teaching of the Seven Ecumenical Councils,” Peter Toon.

            They are all Anglican sourced. I haven’t even finished reading them all!

          • Kkdgrace

            Thank you, Trev!

      • Kamau41

        Your eyes are starting to open up. We love it.
        Here are some additional resources for you to navigate thru. Start tuning into largest Catholic radio in the United States and EWTN(Eternal Word Television Network), which all began with the late Great Mother Angelica. Also, you can go to and Steve Ray’s(catholic and Patrick Madrid’s websites( to receive pro Catholic Orthodox teachings.

        We will be praying for you on journey.

    • Vinny Zee

      I wonder why that guy took all of his comments down?

  • Grandmere

    Thank you so much for this. The only thing that had be scratching my head was the revelation that you were an introvert. I would never have guessed that in a million years. I am so glad that we get to share in your wit, wisdom and humor. Happy Father’s Day.

    • ace

      Introverts recognize other introverts. Here’s a simplified approach to recognition: It’s not who talks the most or who is social and who is not. Extroverts tend to talk to find out what they are thinking. Introverts, on the other hand, speak when they have finished a debate which they are having within themselves. When, according to the popular perception (a stereotype which can at times be true, especially in a young introvert), you ask an introvert what they are thinking and they say “I don’t know”, it is really true, because they are still “thinking” about something, still debating it “within themselves”. But, once an introvert “knows something”, they really know it, and can talk your ear off about what they know. As an introvert gets older, they learn social skills and tricks to be more socially acceptable, even getting better at small talk, so as to quietly “think” while it’s noisy all around. Introverts usually know more about you than you know about them. Hence, it is a real treat when someone like Walid has here, bared his soul, as a Father, to us readers, when it is him who should be honored today. I had to get up from reading this, and go do a few tasks to hold back the tears and then return to finish. He really has made this a “Happy” Father’s Day and I say, “Thank you Walid”!

  • mspip

    this is very interesting. need to look a good while and may have some comments. not sure at this time what they will be after a deeper and longer time of study. thank you for this message. imho we all needed this.

  • Taurnil Oronar

    all the while they threw out my son for speaking against sodomy claiming that he should not exercise his “freedom of speech” for the cause of ‘love’.

    I’ll hazard a guess. If not the first, then the second thing out of their mouths is to quote the part of Scripture to love thy neighbor.

    All the while they willfully ignore the other thing Jesus said in Matthew 5-17:20;

    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    You know what that tells me? That God has not changed His position about sodomy, lying and all that, it still stands. How can anyone claim to love someone and not show them, tell them, inform them, remind them; hey, what you are doing is wrong. Instead as you rightfully point out, “they” would rather let that person continue to harm themselves just because they don’t want to hurt their feelings.

    They have the makings of being the worse of parents, and their children if they have any deserve mega prayers they wise up before it is too late. I cannot imagine just letting my daughters go about their early lives without corrections. Sure there are times it might not be pleasant but not to do so is even worse for them and you/me. Heck, I still do it with my oldest daughter (21) and she made comment about it once to which I replied; I will always be your father and you age is wholly irrelevant, period.

    It boggles the mind those same people would most likely see a person standing right by them start to walk into traffic and not say or lift a finger to stop them. Cause gee you know that person might have a phobia of people touching them or the person might think I’m trying to start a fight or some such because I yelled at them.

    Snowflakes, they melt when exposed to the least amount of warmth.

  • Julie LaBrecque

    It is always enlightening and edifying to hear conversion stories, yours is certainly unique and so relevant for the times in which we live, certainly God raised you up for this era and will continue to guide you, I know from reading Church History that He always does this. I wish you a most gratifying Father’s Day, and extend this wish to ALL the fathers on this site. I most specially thank every priest that has ‘raised’ me, and Deacons too, our parish is most uniquely gifted with 2 outstanding Deacons and one Holy and prayerful Priest. The ‘best’ part of this article or was your description/comparison of the Cross vs the Crescent. I personally equate the 4 corners/arms of the cross with the 4 horns of the Altar.
    Happy Father’s day to you, I do trust that Carlos and Theodore made it special for you, and hope Maria is well. I love being able to look forward to the Sunday Specials.

    • Vinny Zee

      I was truly amazed by how my Church celebrated Corpus Christi today. I had never seen it celebrated like this anywhere. God has gifted our parish with a truly humble and God fearing Priest who is also acutely aware of the policies of those that want to undermine the church and society.

      • Julie LaBrecque

        So glad to hear that – The Holy Spirit is certainly at work, now more than i have ever seen. Love reading your posts —

        • Vinny Zee

          Thank you my sister. However, you should also know what a blessing you’ve been to so many in the comments section. I recall 3 years ago when I first began reading here at this site and being very impressed by your faith and knowledge. I can say that in my early days, as I was studying the early church, I had gone on to and research some older article from early on in 2014 and back and I would read the commend sections. Your comments on various articles helped me put a lot of pieces to the puzzle together as I was doing a lot of studying too. I have not seen Woody around in a while, but you, Woody, Rudy, Steve, Tom, Walid, Raph and several others helped me answer some questions along side the reading and praying I had been doing.

          At that time I had been doing a bible study at work and one of the attendees was Catholic. I was the Protestant seminarian graduate, but I used to get so aggravated with him because he was so right and I knew it. I also remembered thinking if I had known the faith like he did and actually like you did I probably would have never left. I often think back on those early attacks and challenges from Fundamentals that if I had only known the faith as you displayed and I have learned now, I would have been able to stand my ground.

          Funny story back in 2014, I remember we were having a bible study and we digressed on a point because he had said Mary was the Ark of the Covenant. I was so incensed at this and we went back and forth. I had never even heard this before. Then I think it was a few weeks later Walid had an article about Mary being the Ark of the Covenant and I wrote a comment on there that I think took up about 6-8 pages on Microsoft Word. I look back on 2014 in particular and I can reflect very fondly now on how God had slowly been setting up the pieces really since 1994 when I left. Now I can reflect on so many things that had happened in my 20+ years when I was away from the Church and how things finally culminated upon my return. It was glorious and humbling at the same time. Worse though there has been a lot of heartache, abandonment, accusations, mockery, challenges and ultimately rejection from those I had loved most. However, NOTHING has been able to separate me from the Love of God in Christ Jesus. I am home and I am home in the Church I once knew but now I really know and I’m learning more about every day, week, month and year. What a glorious witness we have in the Fathers. Blessings be upon you!

          • Julie LaBrecque

            Wow – I’m humbled at such kind words – and here I read of your conversion/reversion story within the article of Walid’s, all while watching clips of the Corpus Christi procession filmed in Rome yesterday. Your input here is invaluable, you are so articulate, whether that is a gift or an acquired skill, all in this site are beneficiaries of it – you should consider writing an article for us. I hope that God continues to bless you in your journey.

          • Kamau41

            What an incredible journey you have been on, Vinny. I remember those days too just a few years ago when you first came onto this site. Amazing how God has turned you around in the fullness of His timing.

      • Tom_mcewen

        It is amazing how many humble and God fearing priests there are isn’t it. My five priests are the best each has a facet blessed by God, one is Antonio​ who looks on everyone with love, faix who is a scholar with a double PhD in medieval history and theology, speaks Polish, Czech some Russian, also speaks Greek and Latin which he teach at University, and has read the Bible over 350 time with wide eyed wonder, Juan the abbot firm discipline over the brothers and firm in the singing of his office, Jan and Vit and the two novices all fit to be Pope, but that would be a waste of a good parish priest. They are not what the world teaches, in 1942 our priest went to Dachau, in the fifties into prison and again in the seventies. Just remember mine are the best and you are just confused.

        • Vinny Zee

          Impressive credentials; apparently not good enough for Protestants however. If you’re not a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary or Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, then you’re just not getting it.

          • Tom_mcewen

            I just listened to a Protestant who read Abit and God said I want you to become Catholic, he said No, but he went to mass or adoration and was happy with that. And at mass one time he heard God say I want you to become my priest, he flashed on the limits of being a priest he wasn’t even Catholic and said NO. The priest someone here has been called to become a priest, stand up, he didn’t, so the priest walked with the monstrance and when it got to him, it turned in the priest’s hand and touched his head, he was horrified and when he woke up he thought I want to be a priest and was filled with joy. He now a priest. 55 years Father faix has been a priest and at 85 and after a stroke he can still be walking in front of me after 5 miles he has lymes and even in pain is interested and patience. Remarkable people.

          • Vinny Zee

            During our procession for Corpus Christi, it was hot, hot, hot and humid. The I looked and saw elderly with canes, and lame with walkers and thought, “What is my excuse.” I certainly continued on with the parish. The whole time it made me think the heat and exhaustion Christ endured to carry the cross. Can I not join a procession as a witness to my town? Of course we can! Was glad I was there. The story of Corpus Christi is as amazing as the one you just told. Love it. Evangelicals made it sound like only these things happened to them. I have been amazed at the things I’ve learned (many I knew but ignored in my youth.) Recently learned the story of St. Vincent Ferrer. What a testimony.

  • ezekiel22

    Just wanted to give you a heads up. Check out Al Medina Inst. Pretty sure they are passing messages on Facebook. I don’t understand arabic references but I do see patterns.

  • Tom_mcewen

    First those hamburgers look like they are from Tommy’s around Burbank, I wonder what John MacArthur thinks of that sin, They look better then​ apple in the garden to me, give me one, two birth control in the USSR was abortion, seven seems to the normal. Last confessions, the possessed person by a demon can’t access your confessed sins but my priest can, not good. No wonder Americans are fat, Tommy’s is Evil, whispering into my ear and I want to listen.

  • Jami

    Such a wonderful testimony. Took us to a journey. God had such great plans for your life . You have been guiding all the sons and daughters here just like a leader , the head , gifted from Our Father. Happy Fathers day to you Brother Walid. God protect you.

  • AnthonyM

    Thank you for telling us some of your personal story. In 1978 could you ever have imagined you would be writing Sunday Specials in the future? The hand of God moves in ways we don’t comprehend or understand. But we can see the result that you are instructing and enlightening many in today’s age. May God prosper your work.

  • filomena seiffert

    I see so much wisdom in the young man, living by himself, exposed to all the orgies of this society and keeping himself unstained . Everything he says is truth. I really can see how narrow is the gate and few will pass through it. Also remember the very words of Jesus: it is easier to a camel pass trough the needle’s eye then a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. He had the grace to grow in a society system, where vices are not so prevalent. I too, was raised in a society where vice was not wide spread I(not today anymore), It kept me from drugs, sink into debt, waste things, food and etc, knowing that many people on this very beautiful planet are dying of starvation. On my life I only bought on credit once, I did not like the worry of paying it in time and have less money to live. I have lived in very frugal ways but I do not possess his wisdom. I can see everything he says is the reality, the way of life God designed for was. If we abide by God’s way we can live in almost paradise right here on earth, for God’s kingdom is not only for the future but it began right during Jesus life, He is the kingdom. God could find any other way to save us but chose to die in the most gruesome way to show us how much He loves us, how much He wants us to love Him. It is a very great grace to be a true Catholic. Why we were chosen I do not know but I will always be grateful. The teaching of the church been the teaching of Christ liberate us and give true freedom. God first, family second, country third.

  • Kamau41

    “But God giving His Son was not done in order to rescue a majority, it was done so that a few enter the narrow gate while the bulk majority end up in hell.” The picture of the ark of Noah really depicts our times more than ever….Sharing your testimony/story of how you were able to understand the cross is absolutely inspiring. What said here totally nails it; “God used the cross to travel in all four directions to create a universal church. The cross is infinite and is universal.” AMEN!!!!!

    Absolutely outstanding work as always brother, Walid. Happy Fathers Day to you and to also all of the Fathers on this site.

  • ace

    Just a few of the many gems:

    “…frugality and contentment, the two secrets to real freedom”

    “God appointed the odd whom people ignored while the devil appointed the famous whom people worshipped.”

    “…democracy is not for the stupid since the whole world in Noah’s time were dead wrong and only Noah was right. The collective view of the whole earth at the time ended up drowning in death and error.”

    “…mankind belongs to God and not to self or to a nation. The wise realizes that his body does not belong to him but to God and so killing oneself is evil.”

    “If all can interpret who then can prevent the madmen?”

    “The key to know if you bare fruit is this: ‘All who hate God love death.’ (Proverbs 8:36)”

    “The honest intends to lose most and only gain some for his wisdom falls under Christ’s ‘He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.’ The same should be when we deliver our message, we always try to lose knowing always that we will only gain but few who seek ‘the narrow gate’.”

    In Matt Groening’s now defunct comic strip “Life in Hell”, in one strip about freedom, he has several different scenes (my memory may not serve exactly) such as school, work, friends, crime, and each turns out to be a jail, so he has Binky, the rabbit, say something like, “So I decided that’s what freedom is all about, the right to choose which jail”. Thank God we have the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church he left us to lead us out of Life in Hell to true freedom and eternal life.

  • technician

    I enjoy these Sunday specials Walid. Even though you say you are not a theologian, you sure write and speak like a brilliant theologian. I feel ashamed to admit this, but a couple years ago I bought a John Macarthur study Bible. I’m NOT a Calvinist, I’m a pentecostal actually, but what happened was, at the time I didn’t know Macarthur was Calvinist either, LOL. I still have that Bible, and I still read the scripture text because the print is really good quality. But I rarely read his notes. I also have a KJV that I like.

    • Technician,

      Macarthur once said:

      “Call yourself a priest, sir! I wonder men are not ashamed to take the title: when I recollect what priests have done in all ages–what priests connected with the church of Rome have done, I repeat what I have often said: I would rather sooner a man pointed at me in the street and called me a devil, than called me a priest; for bad as the devil has been, he has hardly been able to match the crimes, cruelties, and villainies which have been transacted under the cover of a special priesthood.”

      The sermon may be heard on this video, and the statement of Spurgeon begins at around 1:55

      So what crimes is he speaking of regarding the priests? MacArthur, in writing on the crimes of the Catholic Church (which are, to him, worse than the iniquities of Satan) believes that

      “the Roman Catholic Church has put to death more than fifty million “heretics” between A.D. 606 (the birth of the papacy) and the mid-1800s” (MacArthur New Testament Commentary, John 12-21)

      This is purely slanderous as one can see clearly, when reading his book, that he didn’t take the slightest measure of time to make reference to any primary source from the time of the Crusades in order to prove his assertions.

      A primary source is a document written at, and recording events of, a particular time in history. When one reads primary sources, one is reading history, and when one reads a modern book on a past event, one is reading a book on history. Hagee’s book is absent of any primary sources when making such outlandish claims.

      If you want to see the extent of how these come up with such numbers and accusations and slanders look here:

      • Tom_mcewen

        Walid the comments on your article 2014/03 was wonderful and the Protestants came out in numbers to reject, defend and accuse. Great reading what jewels lay in the past. Thank you, thank you Julie B, Woody and many others.

      • Jeff Benton

        Thanks for sharing that MacAuthor link… I just spent a good bit of time listening to him describe how God no longer works miracles…

        I think he really believes this…

        He edges around it by describing some things that happen as Gods providence… Yet how does one come at me with this hogwash??? Do they claim it was no miracle that God saved my life and it was Gods providence???
        Sounds like a bad case of semantics, unless they choose to go the route of the pharisees and say no it wasn’t God at all, but the devil who saved ya LOL…

        I think this fella really believes that God will no longer use miracles to do mighty things…

        Or Maybe this is a subconscious effort to invalidate the miracles that Catholics have confirmed???

        I have no clue…

        I can only imagine what may be the cause of folks thinking like this…
        Maybe due to getting burned in their youth by charlatans???
        Or maybe due to them seeking an answer for why someone they know and love in their lives were not saved but either suffered or died or both????

        I have no clue…

        But to sit around and philosophically muse about how God no longer does miracles so you can call out the many charlatans that are most definitely in many churches of all faiths seems like a huge folly to me…
        I may be wrong of course… It just seems to me that you can expose charlatans without bashing the works of God…

        Who knows… maybe I am missing the point entirely… 7 years ago I could see clearly… Not so much anymore…

  • Cuzick

    Thank you Brother Shoebat for sharing a part of your life and great wisdom with us as the loving Father you are, keeping us on the narrow path. I pray that you and all the Fathers on this site had a Blessed Fathers Day .

    • “had a Blessed Fathers Day”

      Same to you Cuzick

  • Kevin Nicholson

    “the sinner is unaware of his own depravity thus unable to gain forgiveness for sins he must account for since scripture clearly says that no unclean can enter heaven.”

    Love in Christ Walid.

    “Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.”
    John 6:53-55

    To deny the above is to call God a liar:

    “Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar by not believing the testimony God has given about his Son.” 1 John 5:10

    This is devastating and narrows the gate exceedingly:

    “But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin.”” Mark 3:29

    For the love of God:

    “…“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!”” Matthew 3:2

    Prayer for all in His body:

    “I am confident of this, that the one who began a good work in you will continue to complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.” Philippians 1:6

    • rodolfo

      Amen brother.
      17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
      There shall always be a war. The subtle traps of evil is always present and cunning.
      Thanks to the testimonies of brother Walid.

      • Kevin Nicholson

        Yes rodolfo, thus constant sacramental confession and growing in His grace (obedience). Amen to meeting at the marriage supper of the lamb.

  • “How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!”

    “Few will find it” means few will find it for all times Charles.

  • Anthony

    Good points and great info walid, I see it now how people will criticize church authority and law yet at the same time they are doing the same making their own law and you get to pick and choose according to your interpretation and conscious. I didn’t know MacArthur had these views wow. Then again as a protestant before I would agree with him but I see now that it is a sin to use any birth control. Good info here, God bless and say a prayer for me, I am going to Rcia now. The journey is beginning, it’s been a little tough and will be tougher so please if you remember me while praying a short quick one I will appreciate. God bless

    • And there is Anthony, that makes 99 sheep and with Doc up there that is 100 sheep. All sheep counted. No one missing 😉

      • Anthony

        I just want to thank you for helping me seek and find the fullness of truth, there’s a lot of work to be done, pray the rosary for the church daily. Let’s bring them in!

    • Tom_mcewen

      Good point, there is the individual and the good of Civilization. Birth control has been a total disaster for Western European Civilization, coupled with the overpopulation myth and Marxist theory of man as a animal not Divine, Europe is on life support and the politicians are tugging on the power cord and looking for the fuse box. Humanae Vitae is the road not traveled to quote Robert Frost.

      • Anthony

        It truly is the diabolical forces making all men think and believe the same, including the church. Very interesting times we live in especially for us that are trying to have eyes to see and ears to hear. The prophecies of the saints are scary accurate of what’s to come.
        Here’s one here, I wonder if it’s a true one.

        Mitar Tarabich, who lived from 1829 to 1899, was a Serbian peasant whose gift of prophecy is uncanny. His visions were recorded by his godfather, the priest Zaharije Zaharich. His prophecies begin with accurate predictions about Serbian and European affairs and continues on to predict the world’s future.

        “After the assassination of the King and Queen the Karageorgevichs will come to power. Then we will again start a war with the Turks. Four Christian states will attack Turkey, and our border will be on the river Lim. Then we shall finally conquer and avenge Kosovo…”

        NOTE: In 1903, the king and queen of Serbia, Alexandar and Draga Obrenovich, were assassinated by their own guards, and Petar Karageorgevich became the ruler of Serbia. In 1912, war erupted between Turkey and Serbia, but Serbia won the war with the help of three other Christian states: Greece, Bulgaria and Montenegro.

        “Soon after this war another war will start… The Big War in which a lot of blood will be spilled. If that blood were a river, a huge stone of 300 kg would roll in its current easily. A mighty army from across a river, three times bigger than ours, will attack us… They will destroy everything on their way. They penetrate deep into our land… Hard times will come upon us… Our army will almost give up, but then suddenly an intelligent man on a black stallion will take the command and cry out: “Forward to victory, my people! Forward brother Serbs!!” Our army springs to life. Its fighting spirit wakes up and the enemy is chased away across the river… Then an even greater army will come from the north and run over us. Our land will be devastated. We will be dying of hunger and sickness in great numbers. For three years Serbia will live in total darkness. During that time our wounded army will be abroad. They will stay in a place surrounded by the sea, and will be fed and nursed by friends from over the seas. Then, their wounds healed, they will come back home in ships. They will free Serbia and all of the territories where our brothers live.”

        NOTE: In 1914, the Austro-Hungarian Empire went to war against Serbia, after a Serbian nationalist killed the Austrian Prince Ferdinand in Sarajevo. This developed into World War I. Serbian hero General Alexander Mishich, the man on the black stallion, took command and led the Serb army against the Austrians, pushing them back across the Drina river. But then the “even greater army,” the Germans, came from the north and pushed the Serbs back through Albania to the Greek island of Kerkira where they regrouped. After intense fighting, Serbia became free and was “fed and nursed” by its allies from overseas. This prophecy is startlingly accurate.

        “I will tell you one more thing father, the invading army will come to Kremna exactly on your baptismal day, stay for 3 years, and go away on the same day they came – St.Luke`s day. But you will not see the end of the war. In the last year of the world’s big carnage you will die. Both these wars, the one with the Turks and the big one when the whole world will be at war, will take away two of your grand-children… one before, and the other after your death.”

        NOTE: Just as Mitar prophesied, the Germans entered Kremna on St.Luke`s day. The village was liberated on the same date three years later. Zaharije Zaharic died in 1918, the last year of WWI. The war had taken the life of one of his grandchildren; after his death, another would die.

        “Listen to me, my good father, after the first Big War Austria will disappear, and Serbia will be as big as a real kingdom. We will live together with our northern brothers. For some years we shall live in peace, love and prosperity. But it will not last for long. A venomous hatred will come into our people… Blood is spilled… horrible! I do not know when nor why, but it is probably because of this hatred.”

        NOTE: This all came to happen after World War I, as did the following:

        “Then the one who sits on the throne of our kingdom is killed. He will leave behind a widow and orphans. A relative of his will replace him on the throne, and he will try to rule justly and take good care of his cousin`s children. But people do not love him, and he is accused of being an unjust ruler. He is dethroned and imprisoned by his army. His life will be saved by England`s King and Queen. Then on the empty throne, our killed King’s boy sits. But he will rule only for a few days. He will be taken by his soldiers over the seas because our kingdom is again invaded by a foreign, evil army. All of Europe is under the rule of the crooked anti-cross.”

        NOTE: All of this came to occur just as Mitar predicted, culminating in the “rule of the crooked anti-cross,” the swastika of German Nazism. Germany comes to rule over Serbia…

        “In the beginning Russia will not wage war, but when attacked by the evil army, they will fight back. There is a red Czar on the Russian throne.

        “Here, men with stars on their foreheads will appear. They will rule Uzice and this region for exactly 73 days, and then fleeing their enemies, they will go over the river Drina. These are times of hunger and great evil… Serbs will fight and butcher each other. The invading enemy looks upon Serbian evil hatred and laughs at us. A man with blue eyes on a white horse appears among our people. A star shines on his forehead. The evil enemy will hunt him all over our country, in the woods, over rivers and upon the sea, but in vain. The man will gather a mighty army and free occupied Belgrade. He will chase away the enemy from our country, and our kingdom will be bigger than ever. Russia will make an alliance with other great kingdoms over the seas, and they will burn down the crooked anti-cross and free all the enslaved people of Europe.

        NOTE: After being attacked by Germany, Russia entered the war. Their Communist “red Czar,” Stalin, led them. Tito, the man with blue eyes on a white horse, led the communist party in Yugoslavia. The symbol of Tito`s followers was a red star, which they would wear on their hats. After many battles, Tito finally liberated Yugoslavia and entered Belgrade on a white horse.

        “After the Great War (WWII), peace will reign all over the world. Many new states will appear… black, white, red and yellow. An international court is formed, which does not alow countries to fight each other. This court will be above all kings. Where a war starts, the Court will judge justly, trying to transform hatred and butchery into love and peace. The lucky ones who live to see these times will be more than happy.

        “After a while some great kings, as well as some small ones, will start to fake their respect for the Court, while doing whatever they please… Many small wars will begin because of this… Thousands upon thousands will de, but there will be no big wars.

        “There will be a few wars around the Kingdom of Israel, but sooner or later the peace will come even there.

        “In these wars, brothers fight brothers; then they make peace and kiss each other, but their hatred remains…

        “All these small wars are initiated by the great kingdoms because of their wickedness and malice. Those who fight and butcher each other do it because of their blind stupidity.

        “In our country, the time of peace and prosperity will last for a long time. Many a generation will be born to live and die in peace, knowing about war only through wise books, words and different strange apparitions.

        “Our kingdom will be strong and well-loved and respected by everybody. People will eat only ‘white’ bread, and whole wheat just when they want to. Everybody will ride around in carts with no oxen. People will travel in the sky, looking down upon our land as if they had climbed on the doubled Tara mountain.

        NOTE: Mitar’s entire prophecy is very accurate, from his predictions about world affairs such as in Israel to his description of people traveling in the sky.

        “Down in Uzice, and all around these mountains, many factories will be built, and people will leave the land and come to work in them. For a long time they will love it, but then they will remember their land and go back to it.

        “Serbia will prosper best while the man with blue eyes on a white horse governs — one who will come to Serbia, bringing some kind of new religion. He will lose his leg. From this wound he will die, not because of his great age.

        NOTE: The Serbian ruler Tito died in 1981 after his leg was amputated.

        “After him, our land will be governed by some kind of commission, but it will never be as it was.

        “Even though the people in our kingdom will forget about misery and hunger and will live in great wealth, brother will start to hate and think evil of brother.

        “On our borders and over them, a new nation will appear. They will grow like grass after a deluge; they will be good and honest, and they will answer our hatred with reason. They will take care of each other like brothers.

        NOTE: This refers to the establishment of independent states like Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina, the sparks that lit the Bosnia war.

        “And we, because of our madness, shall think that we know everything and that we can do anything, and we shall baptize them with some new fate of ours, but all that will be in vain — because they will believe only in themselves and in nobody else. Big trouble will become of it, because this nation will be brave.

        “Many summers this trouble will last, and nobody will be able to stop it because that nation will grow like grass. One who will be born many summers after you (born many summers after Zaharich) will be honest and intelligent; he will deal with them in peace.

        “We shall live in peace — they there, us here and there.

        “You see, my godfather, when the world starts to live in peace and abundance after the Second Big War, all of that will be just a bitter illusion, because many will forget God and they will worship only their own human intelligence…

        “Men will build a box and within will be some kind of device with images (television), but they will not be able to communicate with me already dead, even though this image-device will be as close to this other world as hairs on the human scalp are close to each other. With the help of this device, man will be able to see everything that is happening all over the world.

        “People will drill wells deep in the ground and dig out gold (oil) which will give them light, speed and power, and the Earth will shed tears of sorrow because there is much more gold and light on its surface than in its interior. The Earth will suffer because of these open wounds.

        “Instead of working in the fields, people will dig everywhere, in right and wrong places, but the real power will be all around them, not being able to tell them, ‘Come on, take me, don’t you see that I am here, all around you?’ Only after many a summer, people will remember this real power,, and then they will realize how stupid it was to dig all those holes. This power will also be present in people but it will take a long time before they discover it and use it.

        NOTE: It is interesting to wonder about what type of fuel can be found all around us, even in people. Is it spiritual or actually something to do with the elements? Or could it refer to nuclear power, or possibly solar power?

        “Thus man will live for a long, long time, not being able to know himself. There will be many learned men who will think through their books that they can know and do everything. They will be the great obstacle for this realization, but once people get this knowledge then people will see what kind of delusion it was when they listened to their learned men. When that happens, people will be so sorry that they didn’t discover it before, because this knowledge is so simple.

        “People will do many stupid things, thinking that they know and can do everything, not knowing anything.

        “Wise men will appear in the Orient and their wisdom will cross all seas and frontiers but people will not trust this wisdom for a long time, and this real truth they will proclaim for a lie.

        “Their souls will not be possessed by the Devil, but by something much worse. They will believe that their delusion is the real truth, although there will be no truth in their heads.

        “Here at home it will be the same as all over the world. People will start to hate clean air and this divine freshness and all divine beauty and will hide in rankness. Nobody will force them to do that, but they will do it of their own free will.

        “Here in Kremna, many a field will become a meadow and many a home will be abandoned, but then those who have left will come back to heal themselves by breathing fresh air.

        “In Serbia it will not be possible to distinguish a man from a woman. Everybody will dress the same. This calamity will come to us from abroad but it will stay with us the longest. A groom will take a bride, but nobody will know who is who.

        “People will be lost and more and more senseless day by day. Men will be born not knowing who was their grandfather and great-grandfather. People will think that they know everything, but not a thing will they know.

        “The Serbs will separate from each other, and they will say, ‘I am not a Serb, I am not a Serb.’ The unholy one will infiltrate this nation and bed with Serbian sisters, mothers and wives. He will sire such children that among the Serbs, since the beginning of the world, these will be the worst of offspring. Only weaklings will be born, and nobody will be strong enough to give birth to a real hero.

        “At one time we shall disappear from this land of ours. We shall go to the north, and then realizing our stupid deed we shall return. When we come back, we shall wise up and chase away the unholy one, not to see him, in God’s name, ever again.

        “The whole world will be plagued by a strange disease, and nobody will be able to find a cure. Everybody will say, ‘I know, I know, because I am learned and smart’, but nobody will know anything. People will think and think, but they will not be able to find the right cure, which will be with God’s help, all around them and in themselves.

        “Men will travel to other worlds to find lifeless deserts there, and still, God forgive him, he will think that he knows better than God himself. There, except the eternal peace of God, he will see nothing, but he will sense with his heart and soul all of God’s beauty and power. People will drive in rigs upon the Moon and stars. They will look for life, but life similar to ours they will not find. It will be there, but they will not be able to understand it and see that it is life…

        NOTE: Mitar describes space travel here and tells us something that we would find out after his death, that there is no obvious life on the moon and the planets besides earth, but here Mitar tells us there is life out there but we do not see it because it is more of a spiritual life form.

        “The more people will know, the less they will love and care for each other. Hatred will be so great between them that they will care more for their different gadgets than for their relatives. Man will trust his gadget more than his first neighbor…

        “Among people of a nation far in the north, a little man will appear who will teach men about love and compassion, but there will be many Judases and hypocrites around him so that he will have many ups and downs. Not one of these hypocrites will want to know what is real human grace, but his wise books will remain, and all the words he will say, and then people will see how self-deceived they were.

        “Those who will read and write different books with numbers will think that they know the most. These learned men will let their lives be led by their calculations, and they will do and live exactly how these numbers tell them. Among these learned men there will be good and evil men. The evil ones will do evil deeds. They will poison air and water and spread pestilence over the seas, rivers and earth, and people will start to die suddenly of various ailments. Those good and wise will see that all this effort and hard work is not worth a penny and that it leads to the destruction of the world; and instead of looking for wisdom in numbers, they will start to seek it in meditation.

        “When they start to meditate more, they will be closer to God’s wisdom, but it will be too late because the evil ones will already ravage the whole Earth, and men will start to die in great numbers. Then people will run away from the cities to the country and look for the mountains with three crosses, and there, inside, they will be able to breathe and drink water. Those who escape will save themselves and their families, but not for long because a great famine will appear. There will be plenty of food in towns and villages, but it will be poisoned. Many will eat because of hunger and die immediately. Those who will fast to the end will survive because the Holy Ghost will save them and they will be close to God…

        NOTE: This is a very interesting paragraph. Medjugorje, where the Virgin Mary is said to be appearing today and is seemingly preparing us for the great tribulations to come, has constantly urged us to fast. Here, Mitar tells us that “those who fast” will survive. Also, the people run away from the cities and look for “the mountains with three crosses.” This is almost a description of Medjugorje, which is surrounded by three mountains, and there are crosses on two of the mountains.

        “The greatest and the angriest will strike against the mightiest and the most furious! When this horrible war starts, woe to those armies armies that fly over skies; better off will be those who fight on ground and water.

        “People waging this war will have their scientists who will invent different and strange cannon-balls. When they explode, these cannon-balls, instead of killing, will cast a spell over all that lives — people, armies and livestock. This spell will put them to sleep, and sleep they will instead of fight; and after, they will come back to their senses.

        “We will not fight in this war, but others will do battle over our heads. Burning people will fall from the sky over Pozega.

        “Only one country at the end of the world, surrounded by a great sea, as big as our Europe, will live in peace, without any troubles… Upon it or over it, not a single cannon-ball will explode!

        NOTE: At first glance this would seemingly be the United States, but it seems more likely that it refers to Australia.

        “Those who will run and hide in the mountains with three crosses will find shelter and will be saved, to live after in abundance, happiness and love, because there will be no more wars…”

  • Kevin Nicholson

    Edmond, keep following – that will help you.

  • Grandmere

    Poets say there is a “highway to hell” and a “stairway to heaven”. Even they know that few will get there.

  • CTyank

    “From Goo To You Via The Zoo”
    Ha ha, good one. I like it.

  • Taurnil Oronar

    Loved this opening;

    It took me a while to discover the cross. The one fascinating thing about the cross is its four arms. If they are indefinitely extended the cross will infinitely go towards all four directions. God used the cross to travel in all four directions to create a universal church. The cross is infinite and is universal.

    But the crescent if it extends its arms, it can only continue until the circle closes.

    The contrast between the Cross and crescent becomes as plain as stepping into the rain will make you wet.

    I don’t know how it could be said any clearer of just how opposing the two are, the one showing just how infinite is the wisdom of God, the other the circlism, the mobius strips of twisted logic all pivoting on the one thing God hates most; pride.

  • “When did our society lose its way from the true things of God?”

    When it decided to stop listening to the Church.

    • Kamau41

      “When it decided to stop listening to the Church”. Indeed, that is the very bottom line.

  • Doc

    Walid keep up the good work. You are one of the good guys and unfortunately we seem to be outnumbered by bad guys.

    On the other hand, one righteous man standing with God is a majority.


    • Doc,

      There you are. You were gone for a while. Glad to see you back.

      • Doc

        Sorry. I get busy sometimes and don’t have time to visit here or read every thread. Truth be told I’m in a rush today and I won’t even have time to read the comment section. I actually read the article late last night but didn’t have a chance to reply until today.

        Keep up the good work!

    • Grandmere

      They would have to butcher us all before we let them take the captain. Or the jew we have stashed safely in the hold.

  • Kkdgrace

    Great article. There was a time in my life- several, several years ago- when I respected the teachings of Dr. MacArthur. I just don’t see how, though, that he is able to reconcile his statements about birth control and family planning with what he professes to believe in general and his stance on standing “on the Word of God”. Even my untrained self can recognize his statement as one that compromises in order to line up with the views and values held by our modern world. It is contrary in so many ways with the overall teachings of Scripture and the historic stance of the Church, not to mention that many forms of birth control are abortifacent in nature and using them is in line with setting oneself up as being THE ultimate authority over a life that has supposedly been given over to God- as a “living sacrifice”; to direct and to do with as He pleases (including blessing us with many children, if He so desires.)

    Just one more example of the manner in which those who say they are in the church compromising their beliefs and behavior with that of this world. I am disappointed in the amount of time I spent “under the spell” of his teachings, many years ago.

    In an unrelated issue, may I request those willing to intercede in offering up prayers for my daughter and the family of one of my daughter’s friends? This girl had been my daughter’s best friend for over 20 years and we found out yesterday that she had been shot and killed while trying to persuade another friend not to commit suicide. They both died. My heart aches unbearably for them all- for the heartache and pain they must all be experiencing. None of them are particularly religious and I feel so helpless when it comes to knowing what to do in order to offer comfort or assistance. Please offer up prayers that I may be provided with the wisdom, strength, and means to do whatever is necessary for my daughter and for this family. Thank you in advance. God bless.

    • Grandmere

      I will add you both to my morning prayer list. Love you, Gracie.

    • Julie LaBrecque


    • ” I am disappointed in the amount of time I spent “under the spell” of his teachings, many years ago.”

      Don’t feel bad about following this guy’s crap. I read his crap too. But the only way that I was able to notice his crap including my own crap was to become Catholic.Now I can better spot all the crap a mile away and in ten years I can spot the crap 100 miles away.

      • David W

        Walid’s advanced detect and destroy radar should be deployed to our navy. Our destroyers cannot even evade a cargo ship or an inflatable raft.

        Will pray for you, kkd!

    • Now you know why I am a hermit these days Kkdgrace. Too much violence and shootings and crazies and suicide that its not worth dying for. Instruct thy daughter to be careful.

      • Kamau41

        Truly understand. This world is already quite toxic to live in. I tell people, I really cannot fathom what this world will look like in just a few years from now.

      • Kkdgrace

        So very true. My daughter is still young but she has already had many friends from her youth commit suicide. It’s crazy, thinking about so many of the youth giving up on life and taking the ultimate “out” because of emotional pain. I can’t imaging doing that….I truly can’t. Anyone looking at my life as it is at the present time would see nothing more than a life that appears to be in shambles. But the thought of suicide never crosses my mind- my life is not my own and I have no right to take it…besides my belief that suicide is sinful and the ultimate in selfish behavior, since those left behind are the one’s who must deal with the heartache and pain that follow in its wake.

        What a mess we have in our society…..and the generation my daughter was born into seems to be especially vulnerable to a whole host of nihilistic thoughts and behaviors. All I can do is pray and be a source of strength and council to my daughter….as well as serving as an example of a “better” way to live and respond to life and the hardships and confusion life can bring.

  • “I see no benefit in quarreling between believers regardless of denomination”

    Do you mean that we should all stop all arguments and debates? Why? Why should we not argue our differences?

    • Tom_mcewen

      We should take down all traffic signs and guard rails and remove all air traffic controllers, disband the military and just wait quietly for the rapture. The rapture is in the Bible right? Or you a rapture denier?

  • “Is Rescue Christians an organization to save Christians from Persecution or Bash Protestants !! ”

    This is Its about defending Catholicism from Protestants who bash us.

    Should I not defend from Protestants who attack us or should I shut up because you are threatening not to support rescuing Christians financially? Also, do you believe in ‘money talks’? I don’t. And if you do not believe in ‘money talks’ why are you talking money instead of showing where we erred?

  • Reader,

    This is a comment section where you are allowed to either agree or disagree with what was written and explain by evidence why. This is not your website where you can see fit to write us your life story on why you left the Catholic Church.

  • Ratliff

    Ridiculous. Thousands upon thousands snatched from the clutches of slavery and death and you threaten to lift your support over honest, worthwhile observation and debate.

    • Grandmere

      I am not familiar with this guy. Makes you wonder if he ever gave to RC. Many of us are not RC but we give to RC! Hope all is well with you.

      • Ratliff

        I had the same thought…
        hello, G

  • “[…] disagree with the premise of one sinner man confessing his sin(s) to a fellow sinner man, be he pastor or priest.”

    You just managed to show you disobey Christ and sides with the devil.

    • I just finished reading a blog that quoted from the Fathers of the Early Church, and they affirmed the practice of confessing sins to priests was very common.

      Rebels seek to overthrow the Church but Christ’s words will stand forever.

      • Tom_mcewen

        It is interesting to me that demons while in prosession of a human cannot recall the confessed sins of the exorcist, just the ones still existing in the soul. I would not be a room with a Protestant exorcist for a million, billion, zillion dollars, Einstein was wrong I can exceed the speed of light in that case.

        • Ha ha. I hope to never meet a possessed person. It would make me crap my pants.

          • ace

            Ha! You have probably already met a few who are obsessed or at least sensed their presence, maybe even prompted you to make the Sign of the Cross, sprinkle Holy Water or Blessed Salt, call on the assistance of the Blessed Virgin Mary, or say the Saint Michael Prayer? Ever stood in front of an abortion clinic?

            Here’s a prayer in Spanish worth learning (rhymes in Spanish):

            “Si fuerte venís, más fuerte es mi Dios.
            La Santísima Trinidad me libre de vos.”

            “If you come on strong, my God is stronger,
            The Most Holy Trinity, will deliver me from you.”

            Also, call on St. Joseph who is called the terror of demons.

        • Grandmere

          In the twinkling of an eye, no doubt.

  • Tom_mcewen

    No offense but when did Catholics put out a video on par with “Pope Bergoglio kills and eats newborn infants​ to gain entrance to the Secret rite of the ninth circle to become Pope.” At least Dante was acknowledged, education is never truly wasted. The Anti-christ, the beast, the worshipper of Lucifer, Catholics killed all original Christians, then started the pagan imperial church of Caesar, Catholics killed, 50, 100, 168 million Christians by burning, beheading and will in future kill all 700 million born again Christians except for the elect of 144,000. Who is more sinned against, the mole in our eye or the beam in yours.

  • “as He, alone, is the mediator between God and man”

    Then stop asking your pastor to mediate between you and Him.

    • The rebels always use the word “alone”.

      It’s as if they cut Jesus off from the Godhead by using “alone”. Martin Luther would be so proud.

      • Yep. Always filter that word “alone” and “all” and watch out for it. It is the destructive word of the devil.

        • I’m on the lookout for those words.

        • Kamau41

          So well said. Absolutely!!

      • Kamau41


  • You mean you enjoyed it until it stopped short in exposing your prejudices and misconceptions about the Catholic Church. Hbc. Listen. I spent years searching for all the claims about the Catholic Church “killed so many Christians through the ages” and I found the claims wanting:

  • “I’ll like to answer a question posed by shoebat. Neither Catholics or protestants were first.”

    No. You failed to answer the question: who was first Protestants or Catholics?

    Second: Can you point to any name of any Christian who interpreted scripture as you do from 100 AD to 1400 AD?

  • You ignore the part where Jesus conferred upon the apostles the power to bind or loosen sins. You also ignore the part Jesus commissioned them to “teach them to observe all that I have commanded you.”

    No matter how you try to jimmy-rig the Scriptures, your interpretation fall short.

    • David W

      The average American evangelicals never heard of the Didache (1st century teaching of the Apostles):

      “..thou shalt confess thy transgressions in the Church, and shalt not come unto prayer with an evil conscience. This is the path of life.”

      ” But on the Lord’s day, after that ye have assembled together, break bread and give thanks, having in addition confessed your sins, that your sacrifice may be pure.”

      • Indeed. I have a book at home written by Peter Toon and he describes how America Christians are returning home either to Rome or Constantinople through the discovery and reading of the Church Fathers.

        He describes it as the “Constantinople Road.”

  • Sister Tatyana,

    “My parents would be horrified. The hatred my family has towards my faith is unimaginable. They call the Virgin Mary a demon, as they do the Pope.”

    It would be easier for you to try to convert a rock than your own family. This is the experience of many and this is why we join the other family: the family of God.

    You had stated previously a wise statement:

    “I tell them to go to the authority – no, not the Word, to interpret as they see fit, but to the priest and the church who have mountains of church fathers and ancient apostolic interpretations to help answer with God- given authority.”

    As I always say when a wrestler comes along and you are not a wrestler, its best to send them to fight a world champion who can beat them in the first round.

    These love the spirit of debate. If you ever notice from the comment section they draw their theology not as a theology but as a platform to attack Orthodoxy.

    Why do they not just define their faith instead of defining it as a springboard to attack the true faith? This should be a clue.

  • “No truer words ever spoken, Walid, defending Roman Catholicism! It really has nothing to do with Jesus does it, or salvation? It is the structure of the Roman Catholic Church that is being defended “.

    When one says “Jesus” and “Salvation” when the subject is His Church, these would be the words of a demon not a saint. A wolf will always separate the sheep from his church.

    “I had thought you might not publish my remarks and that of course has been confirmed but not because I said anything I ought not to have said.”

    Would you allow a wolf into your home?

    “It is the structure of the Roman Catholic Church that is being defended !”

    Its isolation that you are defending. Your post I deleted was nothing more than the typical attacks we have seen thousands of times. Grasshoppers trying to find any crack to get in and fill up the place with graffiti. Sick of the graffiti all over my walls. Short sentences, memes and slanders that take me mopping all day to clean the crap you leave behind.

    You attack, we defend, which is evidenced by five centuries of experience and countless of blogs on the internet. Show me the Catholic websites that attack and I will show you thousands of your types attacking.

    Try writing anything here that is not an attack. You can’t. The demons will not let you.

    And now you resort to the typical:

    “I had thought you might not publish my remarks and that of course has been confirmed but not because I said anything I ought not to have said.”

    You will always resort to this tactic as if you are being persecuted when reality is, you are being shunned away.

    I have even requested you stop addressing me, yet you can’t help it because you are a wolf not a sheep. Therefore, it is I who shook the dust off my feet, not you.

    “Your friend,”

    Your not my friend. I never knew you. Your email address is a song by Charley Manson. Why would I trust you?

  • Always trying to find a way to edge an argument even if you use your father who was killed in WWII. Your parents sound upright but you sound like a miserable disobedient insignificant rebel who hates Catholics.

    • Reader

      My Grandmother was Roman Catholic. I loved her very much. The whole family was Roman Catholic on her side.
      Now it is you seeking to provoke an argument by your allegation that I hate Catholics.
      My father was a wonderful man who was Presbyterian if I recall. I know nothing more about him other than a wonderful tearful testimony of him by a Brigadier General who in his eighties recounted his experiences with my dad prior to his death in the war. I received pictures I did not know even existed and had a wonderful time along with my brother visiting this man over a three day period.
      Hate Catholics? No, I do not hate Catholics. I do hate the Nicolaitan spirit that pervades the Roman Catholic Church which is evident in you.
      My mother was a burdened woman who struggled admirably in the face of difficult times. Both my brother and I were well cared for by her. There were many hardships we all faced together, my mother, my brother, and this “miserable, insignificant, rebel.”
      I do know who my Savior is though.
      You seem to be a studious man, Walid? I don’t believe it is a result of your alleged faith in Christ however. I believe it is more a personal characteristic divorced from sincere belief. Roman Catholicism suits you for the type of person you are.
      Why don’t we share a scripture together? I will begin by suggesting John 12, the whole chapter. With emphasis on the closing several verses. The remarks about Lazarus in the beginning are important to be considered also, though.
      Beyond that, both you and I may agree, “The spirit of a man is the candle of the Lord, searching the innermost parts of the belly.”
      That verse has particular significance to this miserable, insignificant, rebel.
      I believe it is that one consideration that placed Pharaoh in the position of authority God entrusted to him. In fact, it is that very thing that accounts for Pharaoh’s heart being hardened when God visited him.

      Your friend,


      • All one has to do is sprinkle a drop of holy water and the demon reacts. I said your family seems honorable and that only you seem like a hater. Now you regurgitate all this about your family? What for? Is there any article here discussing your family?

        As I stated before which you seem to ignore at your peril, you are welcome to refute what is written. Have you done that? No. Therefore, it is I who requested you to enter the discussion and to refute or agree. You did not take my offer. This should end all discussions.

        Why then should I enter into another private discussions with you? Especially when all you show towards Catholics is froth? To these I say “take a hike” and not “have a seat”.

      • ace

        I dare you to read this book: “Return to Rome: Confessions of an Evangelical Catholic” by Francis Beckwith “… baptized a Catholic, but his faith journey led him to Protestant evangelicalism. He became a philosophy professor at Baylor University and president of the Evangelical Theological Society (E.T.S.). And then, in 2007, after much prayer, counsel, and consideration, Beckwith decided to return to the Catholic church and step down as E.T.S. president. This provocative book details Beckwith’s journey, focusing on his internal dialogue between the Protestant theology he embraced for most of his adult life and Catholicism…”

  • “Neither Catholics or protestants were first. Christians were first.”

    St. Ignatius (30-120 AD), “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

    Acts 2:42, “They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.”

    Clearly, the Catholic and Orthodox Church is the continuation of Acts 2:42.

    • ace

      Exactly! Acts 11:26 tells us that “…in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians.” The St. Ignatius who is first recorded as using the term “Catholic” was the Bishop of Antioch and Catholic is a name which means universal. Then, from the second half of the second century, “Catholic” began to be used to mean a church which was non-heretical and orthodox, following apostolic tradition.

      Just to give our debater the short concise from Wiki (but he should do some of his own research too): “Ignatius converted to Christianity at a young age. Tradition holds that he was a disciple of the Apostle John. Later in his life he was chosen to serve as a Bishop of Antioch; the fourth-century Church historian Eusebius writes that Ignatius succeeded Evodius. In an attempt to make his apostolic succession even more immediate, Theodoret of Cyrrhus claimed that St. Peter himself left directions that Ignatius be appointed to the episcopal see of Antioch. Ignatius called himself Theophorus (God Bearer). A tradition arose that he was one of the children whom Jesus took in his arms and blessed. Tradition also identifies Ignatius, along with his friend Polycarp, as disciples of John the Apostle…”

      But, for the sake of debate, the Bible also shows followers of Jesus being called “Nazarenes” in Acts 24:5. They were also called “Followers of The Way”, as shown in Acts 22:4 where Paul says he “persecuted this Way to the death”. I bet our debater does not even know why the word “Christian” won out over “Nazarene” and “Followers of the Way”. After we hear that followers were first called “Christians” in Antioch (Acts 11:26), the next use of “Christians” is in Acts 26:28, where Herod Agrippa says to Paul “In a short time you think to make me a Christian!” Finally, we have Peter accepting the term where in 1 Peter 4:16 he says: “…if one suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but under that name let him glorify God.” So, when someone gives preference to the term “Christian” he is following the term which Peter, the first pope, accepted and used.

  • Sir,

    This is not how a dialogue works. I sent you my works, you refute first than I will be glad to refute your ill constructed abbreviations.

  • Grasshoppers always like to repeat what we all know so that they can inject a droplet of smudge:

    “and if the sick sinner confess his sins (such as applicable) they shall be forgiven him, ”

    You forgot that the priests and elders are there LISTENING TO HIS/HER SIN while they give his/her last right.

    Now I know why I don’t like grasshoppers and I try to keep my windows shut.

  • Understood.

  • Grandmere

    So for you the church is a place? That’s messed up, man.

  • You are repeating yourself and not addressing what was written to you. Circular reasoning.

  • Thy name shall not be called Chet but Jukebox for you repeat thyself and forget that “whatever sins you forgive it shall be forgiven …”

    Okay, I dropped another quarter into the slot.

    Play your song again?

  • You are not addressing what I have written to you. Here, your entire argument on why you reject the Catholic and Orthodox practice of commissioning priests to hear confessions of sins from the believers, based on one verse:

    “For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human…” (1 Tim. 2:5), and in your mind, this slams the door shut on the authority Christ conferred upon the apostles to forgive or retain sins of the believers who confess their sins.

    Not so fast. The Greek word behind “mediator” is the same word we use, arbitrator, or a neutral party to settle legal dispute between the two parties. All of this is directly related to the legal requirement God bestowed upon mankind for sins, the penal code that requires death to satisfy God’s justice. It was through the animal sacrifices that God demand their spotless blood, as spelled out in the Law, satisfied God’s ordinances. This is where Christ, as an arbitrator, steps in to remove the legal obstacle between mankind reaching God because of His charge upon mankind for sins. The entire Epistle to the Hebrews, written specifically for Hebrew Christians, explained why the animal sacrifices was not sufficient and why God finally had enough. He addressed this through the prophet Malachi when He declared the end of the animal sacrifices were coming.

    The Pharisees tried to charge Christ with blasphemy when He forgave the sins of a paralytic saying, like you do, that God alone forgives sins. You know the Gospels. Yet, Jesus had the authority to forgive sins while being Man. You also forgot how John the Baptist heard confession of sins and there is no written record of anybody trying to charge John the Baptist for blasphemy of hearing sins. Yet, the Pharisees tried to charge Jesus for blasphemy.

    Since Jesus is the arbitrator who satisfied the legal requirement in blood atonement, the animal sacrifices were no longer necessary, and He became the High Priest forever. Here is the biggest kicker and why Protestants continue to delude themselves, God never abolished the priesthood. Just as the high priests before Christ had other priests assisting him, Christ has a whole host of priests who cooperate with Him in salvation of mankind.

    You missed this verse from John 20, “When He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained,” (John 20:22-23). No matter how you try to argue, you find yourself in a pickle because here in black and white, Jesus gave the apostles the power of attorney.

    Here is the legal dictionary explaining the concept of the power of attorney, “A written document in which one person (the principal) appoints another person to act as an agent on his or her behalf, thus conferring authority on the agent to perform certain acts or functions on the behalf of the principal,” (Source).

    Just as the Father conferred upon the Son the authority to forgive sins, to heal the sick, to make the lame walk, to bring the dead back to life, and so forth, so does the Son confers upon the apostles the power to represent Him on earth. That is part of why the Holy Spirit came, to assist the Church, to convict the world of sins, and to bear witness to the apostles the words of Christ. Therefore, the apostles received directly from the God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit the power to hear confession of sins and to forgive them or retain them.

    Let the words of St. Paul to the Corinthians validates my argument, “But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ,” (2 Corinthians 2:10).

    Writings from the Early Church Fathers also validates the practice of confessions were common.

    From the Didache, as early as 70AD, “Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life…On the Lord’s Day [Sunday] gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure.”

    St. Ireneaus of Lyons, 180 AD, “[The gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women…Their conscience have been branded as with a hot iron [cf 1 Tim. 4:1ff]. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses.” Against Heresies 1:22.

    Tertullian of Carthage, 200 AD, “[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness. Why do you flee from the partners of your misfortunes as you would from those who deride? The body is not able to take pleasure in the trouble of one of its members. It must necessarily grieve as a whole and join in laboring for a remedy…With one and two individuals, there is the Church [cf. Matt 18:17ff]; and the Church indeed is Christ. Therefore, when you cast yourself at the knees of the brethren, you are dealing with Christ, you are entreating Christ.” On Repentance 10:1,6.

    Origen of Alexandria, 244 AD, “In addition to these [forgiveness of sins], albeit hard and laborious: the remission of sins through penance… when he [the sinner] does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine…In this way there is fulfilled that too, which the Apostle James says: “If, then, there is anyone sick, let him call the presbyters [where we get priests] of the Church, and let them impose hands upon him, anointing with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him [James 5:14-15].” Homily on Leviticus 2:4.

    St. Cyprian of Carthage, 250 AD, “The Apostle likewise bears witness and says: … “Whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord” [1 Cor 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience have been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest…they do violence to his body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than they denied Him. …Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who…confesses their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. God cannot be mocked or outwitted, nor can He be deceived by any clever cunning…Indeed, he but sins the more if, thinking that God is like man, he believes that he can escape the punishment of his crime by not openly admitting his crime… I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord.” The Lapsed 15:1-3; 28

    St. Athanasius of Alexandria, 295-373 AD, “Just as a man is enlightened by the Holy Spirit when he is baptized by a priest, so he who confesses his sin with a repentant heart obtains their remission from the priest.” On the Gospel of Luke 19.

    St. John Chrysostom, 344-407 AD, “Priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them: “Whatsoever you shall bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose, shall be loosed” [Matt 18:18]. Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding; but they can bind only the body. Priests, however, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself, and transcends the very heavens….Whatever priests do here on earth, God will confirm in heaven, just as the master ratifies the decision of his servants. Did He not give them all the powers of heaven?

    ‘Whose sins you shall forgive,’ He says, ‘they are forgiven them: whose sins you shall retain, they are retained” [John 20:23].

    What greater power is there than this? … The Father has given all the judgement to the Son. And now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven, elevated above human nature, and freed of its limitations…The priests of Judaism had power to cleanse the body from leprosy – or rather, not to cleanse it at all, but to declare a person as having been cleansed. And you know much contention there was even in those times to obtain the priestly office. Our priests have received the power not of treating the leprosy of the body, but with spiritual uncleanness; not of declaring cleansed, but of actually cleansing…What mean-souled wretch is there who despise so great a good? None, I dare say, unless he be urged on by a devilish impulse…God has given to priests powers greater than those given to our parents; and the differences between the powers of those two is as great as the difference between the future life and the present…Our parents begot us to temporal existence; priests beget us to the eternal. The former are not able to ward off their children the sting of death, nor prevent the attack of disease; yet the latter often save the sick and perishing soul – sometimes by imposing a lighter penance, sometimes by preventing the fall. Priests accomplish this not only by teaching and admonishing, but also by the help of prayer. Not only at the time of our regeneration [at Baptism], but even after ward they have the authority to forgive sins…

    ‘Is there anyone among you sick? Let him call in the priests of the church, and let us pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man, and the Lord shall raise him up, and if he have committed sins, he shall be forgiven’ [James 5:14-15]. (The Priesthood 3:5:182-4; 3:6:190-6).

    ….Great is the dignity of the priests. “Whose sins you forgive,” He says, “they are forgiven them” [John 20:23]…The things that are placed in the hands of the priest, it belongs to God alone to give…Neither angel nor archangel is able to do anything in respect to what is given by God; rather, Father and Son and Holy Spirit manage it all; but the priest lend his own tongue and presents his own hand. Nor would it be just, if those who draw near in faith to the symbols of our salvation were to be harmed by the wickedness of another.” Homilies on John 86:4.

    The sources for all the quotes from the early Church Fathers can be found here. Sufficient to say from the primary sources, the early Church Fathers all unanimously agreed the priests have the power to forgive or retain the sins of the confessing believers. It would be extremely foolish to dismiss what they have to say in favor of your own interpretation.

  • Brenda

    Walid is right, you will have another family.. the one of God. I am sorry and can understand I have kind of a wild family too, what is left of it anyhow.

  • “Brother Trevor, I seek not to engage in church/denominational bickering”

    Actually anyone who does not belong to the original church all they do is “denominational bickering” why else did they split?

  • Typical. You don’t address anything.

    You chose to ignore what the Church Fathers have said about confession because you rejected it. When presented with how they interpreted the Scriptures, you resort to your interpretation and disregard everything else.


    • The entire point is simply this – Christ bestowed upon the apostles the responsibility and burden of hearing confession of sins, to forgive them as if they were Christ Himself.

      It is why it is offensive to those who do not follow the Church. Just as the cross with Christ crucified was a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Greek, it is also offensive to Protestants to see the cross with Christ upon it, thinking we think Him still crucified when we repeatedly, every Sunday at Mass, confess that He has risen from the dead and ascends to the heaven, sitteth at the right hand of the Father (Nicene Creed). The priesthood class that are found in apostolic Church are hated, not only by Islam, but by atheists and Protestants. Atheists deny that Jesus could ever be God or God’s Son. Islam denies Jesus was God, or that He was crucified, or that He rose again. Protestants hates the priesthood because to their sinful ears, it is blasphemy that Christ conferred upon the apostles and those entrusted in succession the power to hear confession, to forgive or retain them, depending on how truly repentant the believers was confessing.

      Jesus condemned the Pharisees, not because of their observance of the Law, but because they forgot the most important elements – justice and mercy. Hence, the entire priesthood class of the apostolic Church is built on justice and mercy – to point to Christ, to hear confession of sins and to have them forgiven.

      For as Jesus told them, “Whatsoever you bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatsoever you loosen on earth will be loosen in heaven,” and again, “If you forgive the sins, they are forgiven, if you retain them, they are retained.” It cannot be escaped that Christ entrusted “sinful men” with such power that is a burden to bear.

      The priests have many hats to wear. They are counselor. They are doctor, for what patient goes to a doctor except to get well? They are guidance. They go to the sick and anoint them so they may be made well. They visit those who are near death to give them the last rite as an act of mercy, for Christ Himself once stopped the funeral of a son whose mother was dependent on him being alive and brought him back, and to hear one final confession so the dying may depart in peace. They urge everyone to be truly repentant, for godly sorrow produce repentance leading to life, and woe to those priests who abuse their office and causes offenses to abound!

      Nonetheless, the offensive priests who violate their office does not invalidate the priesthood Christ instituted. Surely, the gates of hell have raged against the Church, but as the Lord uttered, the gates of hell will not prevail because He is faithful.

      The priests also have the power, through cooperation with the Holy Spirit, to transform ordinary Bread and Wine, produce of the earth, to become truly Body and Blood of Christ in order to fulfill, perpetually, Christ’s command, “Do this often in remembrance of Me,” and to remember these are the peace offering unto the Lord, for Christ Himself is our peace, the arbitrator who settled the legal complaint God levied upon mankind, and the perfect Lamb of God, in place of animal sacrifices, to cancel the legal requirements that were against us, contrary against us, and God took it out of our way by nailing them to the cross. Therefore, the Eucharist, our peace offering, which is mingled with Flesh and Blood of Christ brings Christ in us and we in Him.

      It would not be possible for anyone to partake of the Eucharist without first confessing sins and how can one confess sins unless there is a priest, and how can there be a priest unless there is a bishop whom appointed and consecrated the priests, exactly as the Book of Acts explicitly states by Luke the Beloved Physician? With an unbroken succession that are traced directly back to the apostles themselves, the Roman Catholic Church, all of the Orthodox branches, and yes, even Anglicans have continued the practice of “following the apostles doctrine, breaking of bread, and fellowship” (Acts 2:42) to this day, and it shall be until Christ returns.

      No matter how much it offends those who refuses to submit to the authority of the Church, Christ has established His Church when He called the Twelve and appointed them, giving them power over demons, over disease, to hear confession (forgiving or retaining them), to bring the dead back to life, to baptize in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, to teach those under them to observe all that Christ has commanded them.

      Indeed, Christ foreknew many would be offended because of Him and of the tasks He appointed the Twelve and their succession. After all, Christ said, “He who rejects you, rejects Me.”

      • Grandmere

        Duck, Trevor. Incoming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jeff Benton

    Hmmm, Weird that this post comes the closest to getting it out of all of em I have read so far… Kudos…

    Let me tell ya bout those shepherds and princely men that it –>seems<– your post is saying will, — somehow change the system and status quo, and man will recognize their folly, — for a moment or two… (Unless I am reading it wrong, in which case forgive me)

    You cant drain the swamp by starting with the mud underneath the huge logs clogging up the waterway… First you must remove the huge dead trees clogging up the works… Then you can get the mud out of the way that was trapped there by the big ol dead things, to let the water flow again…

    Otherwise new mud just rushes in under the protection of the big old dead smelly things and you have a never ending battle that you never win…

    The removal of the big ol dead things is Clearly not only NOT happening, But is NOT going to happen either… If it were going to happen, it would already have been done…
    It takes one phone call…Just one phone call…
    It aint going to happen… Or it would have already…

    The shepherds and princely men have sold you down the river and joined the gators in the swamp… They have joined and become one with the mud and the ol dead logs…

    And now your sons and daughters will go to war to be slaughtered for what they know not, just to keep the swamp mud, witches, and slave owners in what they think is power…

    Just a few mentions by a republican congressman or two of investigating the Seth Rich murder and investigating the witch known as the butcher of Benghazi for other crimes too, and within 3 days she had her plant in the Bernie camp shoot repub congressmen at a ballgame…

    Then instantly not a peep…

    Not the slightest peep from any of em any more about removing the huge ol logs clogging up the waterway…

    Nopers… The shepherds and princely men became cowards again overnight… ( as usual )
    Scared of a toothless old hag that communes with demons…
    Scared of losing the cushy comforts they stole from us to set up their friends and families like kings…
    Scared of an old woman and her scrawny beast of a husband who, along with the thick mud that follows their family everywhere and worships them as gods, handed NK nukes not that many years ago…

    They love their lives unto death… And death is coming for them…

    No worries though… One is coming soon who will remove all the huge ol dead logs out of the entire world… And he holds the keys that trump all other keys combined…

    Jesus Christ Rocks!!!
    He is my hope and salvation…

  • Grandmere

    I have found atheists and homosexuals to be “nice” on the most superficial level of social contact. But the minute you “break the surface tension” they show their evil and dark nature. Their rage ( against the Lord and his anointed) knows no bounds. They absolutely and implacably hate Christianity.

    • Now you now why the only way to deal with them is through a cage. Just the last two days I probably deleted a hundred of their ugly comments.

  • Thank you Patricia. “Be fruitful and multiply” is a commandment. It is the key to know which side of Christianity is the correct one.

  • “Can’t answer, brother Walid”

    Just what I thought.

    I am still in search for someone who can answer and I had though “Chet” might be the one.

    Unfortunately I must look for another.

    Its my millionth attempt searching for the one who can answer.

  • “John Chrsosytom hated Jews with a virulent passion”

    First of all go learn how to spell Chrysostom. Then go try to understand how they defined ‘Jew’. Read a book by Bernard Lazare, Antisemitism: Its History and Causes (Lincoln, NE: University of Nebraska Press, 1995).

    Trying to discuss Anti-Semitism outside of historical context is to deal with an unlearned individual.

    • Стефан Евгений

      Robert L. Welken, John Chrysostom and the Jews: Rhetoric and Reality in the Late Fourth Century.

      If you get a chance read this book Walid.
      Much of the slander of St John Chrysostom comes from badly translated writings. much of the time he is speaking of “Judaizers,” and not race.

  • Ukchristian

    Interesting to note that the subject of foregiveness is also taught to the disciples in chapter 18. This is obviously on Peter’s mind because he asks Jesus how often he should forgive a brother sinner. This proceeds a parable of the King and his servant accounts. This is, I think, a message for all of us(Lord’s prayer) but especially Peter. He witnesses the transfiguration and Jesus’s miracles and first hand teaching, gets told that the Church will be built with him as the head and still ends up denying Jesus three times. St Peter please be merciful to me a sinner and help the mustard seed of my faith grow for my eyes have not seen the Lord but yet I believe.

    Ps. I used to think that WS was short for a Working Storage. Does that mean anything to you Walid? A fellow introvert (interesting and very true comments ace!).

  • This whole thread gotten started because you rejected the clear words of Christ, as recorded in the Gospels, the ability for priests to hear confession and to forgive sins. When presented with Scriptures and how the Early Church Fathers understood it, you did not address it and tried to change subjects. That’s the bottom line.

  • Grandmere

    God only spared Noah and his family in the flood. He only spared Lot and his family from Sodom. Narrow is the way and few will find it. Jesus is the way. He is the narrow gate. To question God’s wisdom in sending Christ to die to save a relatively small percentage of humanity is to try to pull him from his throne. He doesn’t think like we do, Charles. If he did, he would have wiped out Noah and washed his hands of us all.

  • My view that is backed by 2,000 years of practice.

  • DantesRivers

    Hi Mr Ringo
    “………..where did Jesus the Christ go?” He did not go anywhere.
    He brought me home to meet His mother and others.

    “Why do Catholics of any construct think that they have some kind of monopoly on Almighty God? ”

    The Church not the Bible is the pillar and ground of the truth.

    I Timothy 3:15 KJV
    15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

    Jesus gave all power to the apostles who passed it on through apostolic succession ………………even unto the end of the world.

    Mathew 28:18-20 KJV

    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
    19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    Visit Roman Catholic mass, Eastern Rte and Orthodox Liturgy
    and little a study and it becomes clear what style of worship was
    foretold by the prophets.
    Malachi 1:11

    For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

    God loved Jacob because Christ was in Jacob.
    God loves the apostolic succession church because
    Christ is in the Eucharist and those who partake of it.

    Malachi 1:2 and 3

    I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,
    3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

    In the latter times (now) Timothy foretold that these truths will be challenged.

    I Timothy 4:1
    4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    • DantesRivers

      ‘”DantesRivers”‘ fyi I am not related to that man Rivers
      St. John (pronounced “Sinjin” Rivers.

      Jane Eyre (1983)_ The End III

  • Julie LaBrecque

    According to Jesus, you don’t get out of purgatory until YOU have paid back the last cent – isn’t it amazing how much Catholic doctrine agrees with Jesus!!!

  • “Doesn’t stating, with certitude, that that the overwhelming majority of mankind will suffer eternal hell, imply that God has in a way “failed”?”


    • Grandmere

      Five SNAPS up in a circle!

  • ace

    Yes, if you come to the understanding that the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Jesus Christ and based upon Apostolic Tradition which Christ established, yes, you are required to join. There are many Catholic conversion stories out there which you can read and there is a site called Journey Home which has vids and discussion forum for those on the journey.

    If someone is martyred for their faith in God, they like the good thief, are saved. If someone does the works of the Father, but has not had the Gospel preached to them, they are saved. If someone does not understand that the Catholic Church is the true Church founded by Jesus Christ, but does the works of the Father, he is likely saved.

    Still, everyone is required to form their conscience and to love God with their whole heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to work out their salvation in fear and trembling, so, by the same token, accepting Jesus as your personal Savior and joining the Catholic Church, by itself is not sufficient. But, remember, Jesus said, unless you eat of the flesh and drink of the blood, you have no life within you. Why would you not want to receive the Bread of Life?

    Remember too what Jesus said about seeking and finding the narrow way. St. Paul tells us to run the race so as win the imperishable and to exercise self-control and subdue our own desires and to do everything for the glory of God.

  • That has absolutely nothing to do with hearing confessions. No matter, you will keep changing subject.

  • ace

    (2nd Response) Here’s one from the Bible on contraception/abortion which
    perhaps you may not have come across – Gal 5:19-21:

    “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (RSVCE)

    “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.” (DRA; Douay Rheims)

    OK, the word which in RSVCE is sorcery and in DRA is witchcraft, in Greek is pharmakeia. It’s the word from which we get “pharmacy” and has also been translated as “drugging” or “enchantment”. (Besides appearing in Gal 5:20, this word also appears in Rev 9:21 and Rev 18:23). So, what are we talking about? Basically, poisoning and sorcery or magical arts used and found in connection with idolatry, as well as a metaphor for the deceptions and seductions of idolatry. So yes, potions or concoctions were around and were frequently employed for enchantment, as aphrodisiacs, and to prevent or terminate pregnancy. Most likely, perhaps, we might say, that potions were employed as chemical abortions should a pregnancy occur (these days we would say to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg). So, if you could locate something that would show that the Nicolaitans engaged in ritual prostitution in connection with idolatry AND such immorality used potions in their idolatry, then use of a form of contraception/abortion by the Nicolaitans might be somewhat supported…

  • “what are we suppose to take away from it.”

    Just what it says Averas. Just what it says.

    “not once do I remember being told that one must be saved by accepting Christ as my personal savior ”

    I read the Bible for decades and no where did I find the verse that says: “in order to be saved you must accept Christ as your personal savior”. However, the best times I found Christ very personal was in Confession and Communion. Two sacraments that you did away with.

    I have dealt with so many folks who claim a ‘personal’ encounter and when I compare notes with all the others who have ‘personal’ encounters I find a ton of contradictions.

  • “What say you, Walid?”


  • The fact that you believe God has failed is nothing short of astonishing. Thus, once again, God gets the blame instead of it being the person who makes the decision whether to obey God or not.

    That put you squarely in the devil’s camp.

  • Ukchristian

    Thank you, how can you do anything else if you read the Bible!

  • susan

    That’s wonderful Margaret. Thank you for sharing. 🙂

  • susan

    It breaks my heart and makes me angry to finally come to the Catholic faith only to see it squandered away. It’s the parishioners fault. They know their Priest does not believe. How can the intent of the mass be there if the Priest is not a believer? It’s very sad. They say it’s because the Priest’s hands are consecrated and that’s all that matters. It’s very odd.