Realization Finally Sinking In The Muslim World That Iran Has Abandoned Mecca Fearing ‘Whats Next?’


By Walid Shoebat

The Muslim world is noticing Iran’s gradual abandonment of Mecca. Realization is finally sinking in as countless articles from Egypt to Saudi Arabia are publishing headlines saying that Iran is gradually diverting their pilgrims from visiting Mecca and encouraging them to visit Karbala in Iraq instead.

One headline sums it up: “The Alternative To Hajj: Muslims To Arafat And Iranians To Karbala. Does Iran Seek A Sectarian Divide To Replace Mecca?”

Iranians last week opted to visit Arafa in Karbala, Iraq, instead of Arafat in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Iran’s religious authority has even completely boycotted the Hajj this year.

Saudi Arabian paper Ukaz notices the shift:

“The Hajj is successfully completed when the pilgrims get to Mina to throw the stones [at the devil] … pilgrims flocked from all over the world except from Iran which preferred to do the Hajj this year in Karbala, Iraq”. has been speaking of the coming shift for years now and realization is at hand.

And Iran is scraping for excuses to damn Saudi Arabia. According to Iran, Al Saud is responsible for last year’s stampede incident: “seven thousand were roasted as result of Al-Saud’s crimes” said Ayatollah Khameni adding “their blood will chase Al-Saud, its inevitable”.

Iran is playing the blame game regarding the Hajj stampedes. Accusations are being leveled at Saudi Arabia regarding last years stampede during the ritual where Muslims stone lucifer at Mina.

In addition, Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi of Qom, one of the 64 Grand Ayatollahs in Shia Islam described Saudi Arabia as “Takfiri terrorists” and “a major problem gripping the Muslim world and the entire humanity”.

He pointed that the Saudi theology “consider anyone else, including Shias and Sunnis as infidels”.

The senior cleric noted that Saudi Arabia “have committed terrible crimes and tarnished the image of Islam”.

But it was “Stoning the devil gone bad” incident last year that Iran is ticked off about.

Stoning the devil, is part of the annual Islamic Hajj pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia. During the ritual, Muslim pilgrims carry out a rock throwing fest at three walls (formerly obelisks), called jamarāt, in the city of Mina just east of Mecca.

On Eid al-Adha (the Day of Sacrifice), pilgrims must strike only one of the three walls specifically the larger one with seven rocks. Then they must hit each of the three walls with seven rocks (49 rocks).

It is here where “Stoning the devil” is where the devil caused most of the chaos and this happened twice already. The crowds conditions are especially difficult during this final ritual which is the day pilgrims leave the valley of Mina and return to Mecca for the farewell Tawaf (the final circumambulation of the Kaaba).

Because many Muslims are taught that it should be done immediately after the noon prayer, this leads to people camping out until noon and rushing out to stone lucifer.

But as it appears, lucifer gets the last laugh since the convergence causes most of the stampedes. In 2006 346 were pancaked flat dead while 289 more were squished but survived. But this last stampede on September 24, 2015 the devil’s corner claimed at a whopping 2,411 pilgrims who were pancaked dead by a massive stampede, the deadliest in the history of the annual pilgrimage.

This happens regardless how many times the authorities inform the pilgrims to stagger their visits (to stone the damned devil) and to leave their luggage at their tents. But as usual, the author of confusion adds more to the confusion involved in the tragedies which is the lack of co-operation on the part of pilgrims who do not leave the devil’s area by the proper route, and therefore collide with the movements of others who are arriving to stone the damned devil.

So Iran finally found its claim to damn Al Saud as “devil” instead. Iran however, does not plan to throw rocks, it already launches scud missiles into Saudi Arabia while certain Shiite clerics in Iran have called on operatives to even set up bombs at Mecca.

The last tragic incident happened as two waves of pilgrims converged on a narrow road, suffocating or trampling to death those caught in the disaster.

It did not matter how many billions of dollars Saudi Arabia spent on crowd control and safety measures, the sheer number (2 million) of devil stoning participants makes ensuring their safety extremely difficult.

Egyptian writer Nawal El Saadawi questioned the need to stone the devil at all.

But without this weird practice, your Hajj is incomplete and you will die in your sins.

The Saudis wanted to ease up the situation. Even the rocks they throw at “the devil” the Saudis are packaging into nifty looking bags which the Saudi government sees to it; these rocks are carefully washed, sterilized, handled, packaged and delivered to the sinner. The sinner then gets his sins forgiven by tossing the stones to the devil who is probably having the last laugh:


  • Julie

    A belief system that provides no Muslim man true peace.

    How long has this conflict been going on?

    • Grandmere

      Since Lucifer rebelled against God.

  • RAW

    At some point, I expect direct war from Iran to Saud. Looks like it’s all now bubbling beyond the proxy surface.

    Isn’t there some core prophecy concerning the meteorite black rock now worshipped and idolized at Mecca? If it is destroyed, it invalidates all of what was written? I’m not an expert in this but it seems like the idolized black rock has been placed one just step from (the idea of) allah himself.

    Could displacing the stone with gorgeous mountainside rid Islam of the political ideology of complete global political conquest? Well, that would suit me fine. The only thing I cannot co-exist with from Islam is the Sharia which requires my head to be severed.

    • Ratliff

      It will allow the focal point to shift from the stone to the antiChrist himself, the devil incarnate.

      Thank you, professor Walid.

  • Ratliff

    Imagine the footage (from a distance) that smart phones will capture when Elam nukes the Saudis. I keep telling my unchurched work associates it will happen, and they look at me like I’m crazy.

    • Ratliff

      Crazy like Shoebat.

      • Higlac

        The Shoebats DON’T strike me at all as crazy (unless you’re turned off by their speech delivery and ultra-firm stances, e.g., re. Catholicism, the Inquisition, penalties for sodomy – which I can see some people as being, most unfortunately for those ones…). Rather, if things continue to come true as per their predictions the way they have been doing, they’ll have to be lauded as INSPIRED men. I most certainly wouldn’t have conceived of things even to a fraction of 1% of the truth they have uncovered.

        I repeat, their presence and work is an absolute BLESSING for us all – may they keep it up a whole lot more!!!!

        • Ratliff

          He’s crazy because:
          He moderates the looney posters here.
          He continues to pursue and report God’s truth despite threats to his life and the lives of his family.
          He continues though he’s been forced underground.
          He, with a small group of faithfuls, operates a dangerous Christian rescue network that continues (with God’s blessings) to accomplish miracles.
          He puts up with me for over an hour every time we speak.

          Case closed.

          • Higlac

            1) If he and his family had truly been forced underground, I doubt he and his son would be able to post at all – the Marxists and Moslems would be seeking to find and jam his Internet facilities at the minimum; especially as then he would not be able to access the Internet sufficiently by not having a fixed address plus telephone in order to do so (unless he’s rotating between friends and relatives, which is really hazardous).

            2) He obviously is continuing all his activities (Christian rescue network, Weblog moderation, reporting God’s Truth and editorialising on it – and no doubt indeed keeping up his friendships with fellow real Christians) despite all those threats, in at least good part because of his strong faith in God – and God ultimately Is in Control of absolutely EVERYTHING, even if He Chooses Not to Exercise it all that much. Truly having that kind of faith and living upon it can indeed SEEM dangerous, but actually isn’t – provided that you really ARE in constant touch with God, something very few of us can lay any claim to!!!

            Ergo, much as he and especially his son Theodore can seem crazy (especially to those milquetoast Western minds who flee “fanatics”), they actually are not – and thank God for it!!!!

          • Ratliff

            Maybe you should tell him how dangerous it isn’t.

          • Higlac

            I’ve tried to rephrase things so as to ensure the danger that actually IS most present for him and his son is not facetiously denied.

            No question he is endangering himself and his work; however, God IS Protecting him. Remember: If God Be for us, who can be against us?

          • Ratliff

            Crazy was said in jest, neighbor; the man is platinum.

            St. Paul, I’m sure you’d agree, was right with God. However, he was beaten, stoned and left for dead, imprisoned and abandoned by his flock as well as eventually martyred, and that’s just to name a few things.

            Maybe I shouldn’t be making the case for Walid, but I didn’t assume anything I asserted.

          • Grandmere

            One has to know Higs for a while to dialog with him. If you only knew what a rough start I had with him years ago! Sometimes our sarcasm or banter don’t hit the sweet spot with him. Please be patient. It will be worth it, believe me.

          • Higlac

            Thank you so very much for speaking up on my behalf, dear Grandmère!!! That was lovely of you.

            Yes, Asperger’s can make for all sorts of mis-communications, alas…

          • Ratliff

            Now you’ve got it, brother.

            I wrote one reply that said,
            “Go to:
            Sense of humor
            Switch to “On.”

            But thought better of it.

            God bless

          • Grandmere

            Now you two are getting the hang of it. I love you both! XO

          • Ratliff

            It’s quite mutual, dear.

          • Higlac

            And you too, “Ratliff”.

            Eh, that the Shoebats have so much on their hands to keep themselves safe yet continue to preach and analyse things that virtually all of the rest of us would almost never be able to conceive of is one of the many, many, MANY proofs of God’s Existence and Love to me. No Man would be able to keep doing as much for long, especially in the teeth of so much rage and hatred from the Marxists and the Moslems!!!

            Some months ago, a fellow-poster speculated on the possibility that the Shoebats (father and son) could end up eventually being the two witnesses in sackcloth of Revelation 11: 3-13. While I told the lady in question that the speculation was/is premature, it nevertheless seems to be something worth keeping in the back of one’s brain…

          • filomena seiffert

            I do not think shoebats dress in sack clothes. I do believe Walid was chosen by God to witness for Muslims and Christians the seriousness of the times we live in. How could a muslim, which is very difficult to convert, read the bible and change on his own account if it is not the calling of God? not only that but all the work he does to understand and compare prophecy. Like Paul he was dragged to do the will of God and help His people. Thank you God, thank you Walid.

          • Higlac

            True, they’re not dressing in sackcloth at this time. However, it’s not impossible that they’ll be so found at that time in Jerusalem: remember how Almighty God is OMNIPOTENT!!!! 🙂 Thanks be to Him…

          • Grandmere

            You got it. That is exactly what he meant.

          • Catbr

            Apparently Dan Ackroyd, a comedian from Saturday night live who went on to be in lots of movies, like Ghost Busters and The Blues Brothers, also has Asperger’s. He seems to have done well for himself, but I ‘m sure he had his struggles with the disorder. Good luck to you with it.

          • Higlac

            It has already given me ENORMOUS SORROW, past the point that I feel nowadays like a parasite unworthy of living…

          • Catbr

            Sorry about this. Maybe you’re just going through some tough times right now. Sounds like you need someone to talk to, maybe a friend or family member or your family doc. Hope things improve for you soon.

          • Pamela Sage

            Shoebat is being invaded by Aspies! Another Aspie here, Higlac. I think Shoebat appeals to us, because our minds work very logically and we reject political correctness. We expect an argument to be backed up by facts and the evidence we see in the current events.

          • Higlac

            Ah, Ms. Sage:

            I wish you were right. MOST unfortunately, the wife of a couple that were former “friends” of mine was also an “Aspie”, yet she most emphatically ATTACKED me as a “hypocrite, a non-Christian who’s going to Hell” and other such things a little over 3 years ago.

            She was all pro-“political correctness” and both she and her husband REFUSED to so much as LOOK at the data against Islam I sent them (including names and dates of battles in the past!!)!!!! She even went as far as to look up a typical PACIFIST list of Gospel readings to “open my eyes” to the Bible and real Christianity, saying that I didn’t know my Bible!!!!

            They were typical LEFTISTS who emotionally sided with those hating Stephen Harper as well as right wingers like myself. Even a couple of months before the final break, I had already come to realise who they actually were. [Still, it took 23 days from their first attacking me until I told them off…]

            When she and her husband gave me an ULTIMATUM to stop posting ANYTHING WHATSOEVER about Islam (no matter how innocuous) on my Facebook page, I told them that I had taken them for their betters and told them off the way they most richly DESERVED!!!!!

            Consequently, Ms. Sage, I’m most sorry but this case proves you wrong, most unfortunately…

          • Ratliff

            It’s difficult when you learn you’ve made lousy associations. I have a long history of them. Sounds like you’ve been blessed with a hard lesson. Good riddance I’d say.

          • Spaniard

            Grandmere, you gave me some well needed assistance some time ago when I stepped where I had no business. Your help is greatly appreciated and I hope others listen. Their loss if they don’t! is the looking glass to “The way, the truth, and the life”. THANKS again!

          • Grandmere

            De nada.

          • And Jesus said –
            Whosoever shall seek to save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose it, shall preserve it.
            – Luke 17:33
            Godspeed to Walid!

        • Grandmere

          Higs, Ratliff meant “crazy like a fox”.

      • Grandmere

        Me crazy too!

        • Crazy like a Grandmere! Has a nice ring to it, don’t you think?

          • Grandmere


          • RodK1975

            Yeah, Grandmere walks softly and carries a big switch…

          • Kamau41

            As well as the iron skillet!

    • Kamau41

      Soon enough Ratliff, they will see that your eyes has been wide open. Reality will very soon set in to them as you continue to remain on the right ship here.

  • David G

    Who knows Brother Walid, maybe Erdogan will give Iran a good deal on the nukes from Incirlik Air Base. In all seriousness, none of us would have a clue what was coming next without you Brother Walid.

    • filomena seiffert

      I read somewhere the nukes were taken from Turkey. Anybody knows about that?

      • I’ve also heard they were moved. Forget exactly to which countries: Romania and Poland perhaps. Nice and close to Russia’s border.

        • filomena seiffert

          It maybe true but Washington hide everything from the people because regular people are only important to them when is time to vote and pay taxes.

  • alexander

    And Thats why its prity funny when muslims stoning the Devil while at the same time do his bidding by killing Christians or Jews (Sura 9:29_Sura 9:5) . In Otherwords you can’t stone the devil because the devil is Just laughing ” Because anybody with a common sence (Critical Thinking)
    Whom understands the Arabic language 100 % Or Just a small fraction of it like me 2 %
    Knows That The God of Islam (Allah) , Is Satan in disguise (Makr _ Kayhrul Makireen) Deceiver
    Sura 3:54 .

    And even you dont have to learn or understand Arabic its already clear when some one Compares the Bible with the Quran Just in English ,
    (Whom is allah in the Quran and whom is Satan in the Bible)

    For the characteristics from allah in the Quran are match perfectly with Satan in the Bible ‘ The same thing Includes false Christianity but than in a diffrent way
    Like Mormonism or Jehovah Witnesses or Seventhday Adventism
    For the Bible is very clear concerning this issue

    2 Corinthians 11:3:4 _ 2 Corinthians 11:14:15 _

    Galatians 1:6:9
    In the Greek accursed means an (Anathema) or as well (Katara) >>Curse

    1 Timothy 5:15 _ 2 Thessalonians 1:8:9

    Thats why the Bible says what paul wrote as well to give us a enquargement
    2 Timothy 2:15 _ Ephesians 6:10:20
    (King James version)

    For those whom are intrested whom can understand something see my next post

    Greetings from the Netherlands

  • alexander

    Please study ?

    Collossians 2:8 , Beware lest any man spoil you through philosopy and vain deceit after the tradition of men after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ


    2 Thessalonians 1:8:9 , in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ , Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the Glory of his power


    1 Timothy 5:13 , And withal they learn to be idle wandering from house to house ; and not only idle but tattlers also and busybodies speaking things which they ought not


    2 Timothy 4:3:4 , For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine , but after there own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears , And they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables


    Romans 16:18 , For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ , but their own belly and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple


    Romans 1:21:32 , Because that when they knew God they glorified him not as God neither were thankful ; But became vain in their imaginations and there foolish heart was darkened professing themselves to be wise they became fools , And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God in to a image made like corruptible man and to birds and fourfooted beasts and creeping things . Wherefore God gave them up to uncleanness through the lust of their own hearts , to dishonour their own bodies between themselves ; Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator who is blessed for ever , Amen . For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections ; for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature ; And likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust one toward another . men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet . And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge ” God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient ; Being filled with all unrighetousness , fornication , wickedness , covetousness , maliciousness ; full of envy , murder , debate , deciet , malignity , wisperers , backbitters , haters of God , despiteful , proud boasters , inventors of evil things , disobedient to parents , without understanding , covenant breakers , without natural affection , implacable , unmerciful , Who knowing the judgement of God , that they which commit such things are worthy of death , not only do the same , but have pleasure in them that do them


    2 Corinthians 11:3:4 , But i fear , lest by any means , as the serpent beguiled eve through his subtilty , so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ . For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus whom we have not preached , or if ye receive another spirit , which ye have not received , or another gospel , which ye have not accepted , ye might well bear with him


    2 Corinthians 11:14:15 , And no marvel ; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness whose end shall be according to their works


    1 Peter 5:8 , Be sober , be vigilant ; because your adversary (Enemy Foe) , The Devil , as a roaring lion , walketh about seeking whom he may devour


    Ezekiel 28:17 , Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty thou hast corrupted
    Thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness ; I will cast thee to the ground , I will lay thee Before kings , that they may behold thee


    Isaiah 14:12:17 , How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer Son of the Morning how Art thou cut down to the ground which didts weaken the nations for thou hast said in Thine heart , I will ascend into heaven , I will exalt my throne above the Stars of God I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation , in the sides of the north ; I will Ascend above the heights of the clouds , I will be like the most High . Yet thou shalt Be brought down to Hell , to the sides of the pit they that see thee shall narrowly look Upon thee and consider thee saying , is this the man that made the earth to tremble
    That did shake the kingdoms ; That made the world as a wilderness and destroyed The cities thereof that opened not the house of his prisoners


    in Otherwords False Christianity is Just Like islam but in a diffrent kind of ways
    For example Jehovah Witneses They dont can’t Take a blood transfusion so they lay Themselves on the Table of Moloch (Baal) in a Spiritual sence and let themselves Bleed to death But they can take a some kind of fluid substance what can save there Life but if it will not save there life than the doctor says you need a blood transfusion
    But unfortunaly this is not allowed in this Jehovah Witnesses Cult , So The are Bleeding to death , In Otherwords its Just Like a Muslim Terrorist blows himselves Up in to Pieces in to the Crowd ” In Otherwords satan works in diffrents kind of Styles to Deceive people how ever he wanted to do his bidding . But the Bible gives not such Detail about this , The only hind what we find in the Bible is the word Subtil
    which means according the hebrew language cunning Clever Deceptive Smart

    And Thats how the devil is operating in this world
    Wheter its Homosexuality Lesbian behavior or Whatever to stick something in to your Brain or mind whatever you wanted to be what is a Abomination to God What ever is Sadisfying The Flesh and Tickles The Brain and heart of The Victim Thats how Satan works People , Let this be Clear and be Wise as Serpents and Innocent as Doves

    Learned this Lesson a while ago from Walid Shoebat in one of his sermons (Preaching from a Youtube Video) . Thanks Walid for your Wise lesson

    Greetings from The Netherlands

  • Tom_mcewen

    The underdogs of Islam are going to nuke the masters of Islam. As President Lincoln said, A plague on both of your houses. President Carter was given a letter from Khomeini that he promised that if the US withdrew it’s support from the

  • RodK1975

    Very interesting, Mr Shoebat… I heard you say once that all someone needs to understand prophecy is a good map… So, I look up Karbala and I see that Karbala is basically Babylon…

    So, I have to ask a few questions…

    A) Is the Kaaba so important to Shia Muslims that it could prevent Mecca from being directly attacked?

    B) Is it plausible that Iran could launch a military operation to move the Kaaba from Mecca to Karbala (Babylon)?

    • richinnameonly

      Now, your next step needs to be doing the critical thinking and meditation without the cigarette. Maybe a glass of brandy? How about a punching bag with an Islamic beard taped to it?

      • Grandmere

        Believe me. He don’t need no cig, brandy or punching bag. He’s a member of the Think Tank. Enough said.

        • RodK1975

          I’d give you 100 upvotes if it were possible…

          And squeeze your neck… 😉

        • richinnameonly

          Keep us posted with major thoughts. Lately I only have time to think up general impressions.

      • RodK1975

        Haha… you’re right, Rich… How about a Rocky Patel Decade or a Partagas 1845 Red Label?

        • richinnameonly

          That’s heavy duty stuff.

          • RodK1975

            I would like to try a Cuban cigar… just to see if they live up to the hype…

          • OrthodoxChristianAmerican

            IMO, they don’t

          • RodK1975

            That’s about what I figured… it’s the mystique because they’re hard to get here…

          • OrthodoxChristianAmerican

            Yes, the ‘forbidden fruit’ syndrome, lol

          • RodK1975

            Yeah, what you can’t have is better and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence..

    • Kevin Nicholson
  • filomena seiffert

    Lucifer did not like to be stoned by his own children then he caused the stampede. If Iran fight Saudi Arabia, USA will help the Saudis.

    • Grandmere

      And Iran will mine the Straights of Hormuz. Check.

      • Higlac

        Agreed – that’s why the Saudis have been building a pipeline (if I’ve heard correctly) from Dhahran to the Red Sea so that if Iran indeed mines the Straits of Hormuz the result won’t be catastrophic, only inconvenient.

        [Not that it should matter: if I had my way, all those Islamic kingdoms, emirates, sheikdoms et al would be CHOKING on their oil just like Cuba was at one point supposed to do the same on its sugar…]

        • Grandmere

          Hmmm…. A pipeline. A stream of tar. A river of burning pitch. You nailed it.

          • filomena seiffert

            I think you are delving in something apocalyptic. Anything is possible in the world we live. May Jesus come soon. Amen

      • Pamela Sage

        I’ve been putting two and two together. We already know Iran and its client states can reach Mecca with Scuds launched from Yemen, which they will soon be able to equip with nuclear warheads. However, they would simultaneously want to take out the House of Al Saud. That means Riyadh has to go. We know from its recent words and actions that Iran wants to expel the U.S. from the Persian Gulf. Though the ruling family is Sunni, the majority of the population of Bahrain is Shiite. If Iran seals off the Gulf, they could probably easily overthrow the ruling family of Bahrain. That would give them

  • Deplorable Xenophobe Perry
    • Yep. Thanks for the link. The English is finally catching up to what is said in the Arabic.

    • Kevin Nicholson

      “Indeed, Saudi Arabia appears to be trying to get a handle on its
      problems. Iran has engaged in no such thinking,” said Schanzer.”

      As Walid implied in an earlier article the USA can stand back on this schism.

      Since as Christ states “Disregard them! They are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”” Matthew 15:14

    • Julie LaBrecque

      Nice name there!!

    • RodK1975

      Good work, Perry, I don’t know how I missed this article…

  • rodolfo

    How big is the rock they use when muslims condemns an adulterer to death? look at then the size of the pebbles they’ll throw to the devil. “carefully washed, sterilized, handled, packaged and delivered to the sinner”

  • Kevin Nicholson

    “It did not matter how many billions of dollars Saudi Arabia spent on
    crowd control and safety measures, the sheer number (2 million) of devil
    stoning participants makes ensuring their safety extremely difficult.”

    Note the parallel of The House of Saud (Arabic: آل سعود‎‎ Āl Saʻūd) and Wahhabism (Arabic: الوهابية‎‎, al-Wahhābiya(h)) to the lifting up and the destruction of Pharaoh:

    “For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.…” Romans 9:17-18

    And “So Jesus told them, “For a little while longer, the Light will be among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going.” John 12:35

    Thank-You Walid, Ted, and Andrew for helping us walk in His light…

  • Julie LaBrecque

    Saudi will try her best to win back those who have abandoned her. If those efforts fail, Saudi may lob, albeit surreptitiously, an lightly crippling attack in hope that those who left her will decide to come home rather than suffer further afflictions.

  • Bless you John,

    One concern, “if you don’t know then google it.”

    If Google is the trustworthy method, I tried to google “Jesus” and “mary magdalene” and what I found was so many claiming he had sex with her.

    Now back to your advise:

    “There are many books written exsposing the Catholic church for what it is, so I shouldn’t have to explain what I’m saying. if you don’t know then google it.”

    Is this sound advise on how to seek for the truth?

  • Ratliff


  • Ratliff

    Sorry, John. I’m formerly Protestant, too. I went Eastern Orthodox Christian. Your arguments are ill informed and poorly researched. How do I know? Been hearin’ em for decades. You won’t be able to substantiate anything you assert, but if you wanna try, well, by all means…

  • Grandmere

    That is unfortunate. There has been more slander written about the Catholic Church than any other. This comes from an Anglican. Do not fall for that slander – it comes from the devil.

  • Ratliff

    I hear Charlie Manson read the Bible without any Church guidance, too; I guess you’re in fine company.

    The liturgy Eastern Orthodox practice is essentially unchanged since the 4th Century; there was no New Testament for the first 300 years after Christ. The copies that were available were prohibitively expensive, and only someone very rich could afford a one. What did people rely on for guidance? They relied on Church tradition, handed down DIRECTLY from the Apostles via Apostolic Succession.

    If it isn’t Apostolic Succession Christianity, it’s pretty much Protestant, neighbor. So don’t tell me you aren’t one.

    Hold MY horses? You have spoken from ignorance sir, though you are probably an intelligent man. Why come toss a grenade and try to walk away?

    I work a 60 hour week, so I hardly have time to suffer foolishness, either. So why bring some, John?

    • What you have said here is exactly what I arrived at early this year. One day I said I have to find the ancient church, way before the ‘reformation’. And then to find out there was no bible for more than 300 years…well it was just the beginning for me. I spent years searching amongst the tulips only to find out they were poison ivy.

      • Ratliff

        Amazing how many people are reporting this sort of discovery. I have to believe it’s the Lord bringing us closer to Himself, refining us and our walk. God bless, Craig.

        • Its what they call “revival” while they ignored the “falling away” and at the same time they keep repeating “just read your Bible” and “speak to God”.

          • Ratliff


            But there’s no tent, and people aren’t writhing on the the dirt floor, barking like dogs…

          • Ratliff

            Seems one comes in looking for a fight, and starts backing up after it gets bloody. Once they refuse to answer the bell, another steps into the ring with same exact name calling and self-exalted condemnation.

            Have a blessed weekend, brother Walid.

  • Ratliff

    Wrong again. Walid doesn’t screen out honest debate; he moderate ALL input. Hang around with an open mind, John. As long as you aren’t slinging ill founded slander, you’ll be welcome. We get a lot of “Catholics worship idols and diefy Mary” crap. If you truly dig into unbiased sources, good sir, you’ll find the truth. We have enough enemies without to be cultivating them within. May God bless you, sir.

  • John, I have looked in the past five days to see under deleted comments and I could not find anything you wrote that I have deleted which your other comments hows we did not censor you.

  • John,

    You have not written anything we can’t handle so far, bits and pieces one could find repeated a million times over. We did NOT censor you. I checked the deleted section and you were not in it. Good day.

  • Again, for the fourth time, no one deleted your comment. However, why are you posting this comment under a title that is not fitting? If you care to refute these arguments you present above, why not go to:

    You have your homework cut out as I did mine, happy refuting. Make sure you refute every quote by showing the quote and your ‘scholarly’ refutation.

    Happy refuting.

  • Ratliff

    “Not a real Christian.” That’s for you to decide?
    You’re a real peach, John. You’re regurgitating the same old libel that we’ve all seen before, and it’s just as blindly accepted by you as it was the others. Do your homework. What you know about the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church could fit on the head of a pin.

    • racarrera

      The toilet must be plugged if this dreck keeps popping back up.

      • Ratliff

        Hello, my friend. Miss you when you’re gone.

        • racarrera

          Man, the feeling’s mutual. I just returned from a birthday party in Los Angeles over at Philippe’s on Alameda. Do you know that place?

          • Ratliff

            Too well. Coupla miles away.

          • racarrera

            Once fasting for me ends, I’ll have to arrange another visit.

          • Ratliff

            Ya gotta put the coleslaw ON the sandwich, man.

            I know where to get some great Memphis BBQ, too.

          • racarrera

            I’m down for that!

          • Grandmere

            Me too. It’s called the Rendezvous. And it’s in Memphis. lol

          • Ratliff

            Been there, done that. I worked on Great Balls of Fire in 87, and lived in the Radisson across the street from it.

            Personally, I preferred Willingham’s
            there in Memphis, but what do I know? Interstate is good there these days.

          • Grandmere

            Being from the bayou, I say “pig is good” boucherie or barbecue! Love ya.

  • I know enough about nutt-cases who write a line with a strike of a pen that requires a book to refute.

    Here, I will give you n example, a nutcase would write:

    “God does not exist”

    So go ahead disprove it.

  • Joseph Smith said similar thing you did. Should we follow him and why?

  • Ratliff

    Here’s a link to what the early Church Fathers thought on the Trinity. One quoted in the list is Polycarp, whom you may recall is spoken of by Paul himself in the New Testament. It isn’t terribly lengthy, so you can get through it pretty quickly.

  • Trevor

    Hey, John Carter, don’t you have a damsel in distress to save in Mars?

  • That logic you keep repeating is ludicrous. There is FAMILY: you, your wife and your kids, are you “wife” and “kids”?

  • Really, 10 tribes rebelled? Let me tell you something about this group here. You sound like a kindergarten. You think these people here do not know about your booklet version knowledge on the Bible? They see you and probably smile “here they come again, another milk suckling Sunday School graduate”.

  • John,

    No offense, but you remind me of a kid who just opened his christmas present and it was a little microscope and now he is trying to dissect God with it.

    Then after he thinks he found God under his little microscope, he runs towards the Christmas tree and sets it on fire. His father then comes home and belts him.

    You have a long way to go John.

    Where would you like me to start? Christmas trees?

  • Trevor

    Ah, glad you got my Edgar Rice Burroughs reference.

    Now, on a more serious note, let me ask you one question with no explanation necessary.

    Is Jesus God? Yes/No.

  • racarrera

    We have a score of Protestants who are immune to what you’re saying. They took the step of ridding themselves of the horribly false history peddled by Protestant rubbish churches and learned to read authentic history, the Church Fathers AND The Bible. You’re all talk. Indeed, everyone else IS wrong. Christ was pretty clear that the way to the Kingdom is a narrow one, and much more so since, in this country, we have thousands of ‘churches’ who can’t agree on anything. This is madness, not the unity of ONE church Christ intended.

    • RodK1975

      “This is madness”

      Amen, dude…

      • racarrera

        You know I think there are good protestants, but then we attract dregs here who should be at least made aware that whoever told them fairy tales lied to them, and it’s unbecoming to be a historical illiterate.

        • RodK1975

          Dude, I grew up and live in an extremely rural area, far away from any Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican Churches, going to a little country church and I never heard 95% of the crap I see pass through this comment section… I don’t get it, my little country church has stain glass windows with, basically, icons in them, we have an altar with a huge cross and candles on it, we have Christmas trees at Christmas, celebrated Christmas until January 6th and baptize people in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit… so… I thought I was supposed to be the stupid hick that didn’t know anything… I guess those old folks did ok for a bunch of backwards redneck farmers…

          • racarrera

            Your church was basically Orthodox on their own. These are the sane one with the best people. These other snake charmers are simply running a function out of a rental space or garage (literally), and the world is the enemy. That is NOT Christian. Only demons and principalities are our enemies spiritually, and those who would oppress Christians en masse have to be reformed or repelled, by force if necessary.

          • RodK1975

            It’s annoying… especially when ritual and symbolism in practice is blown off as unnecessary or useless or “wrong” when the people spouting such aspersions are completely and totally oblivious to the meaning and ancient purpose of the orders and structure of the service… it isn’t pomp for pomp sake… there’s a purpose for everything and I hate to sound arrogant but if people can’t surmise the “meaning” in the rituals, maybe they should reevaluate their spirituality…

          • racarrera

            I agree wholeheartedly. But this is the price of ignorance of history and their own church. They know nothing, and then, to top it off, are arrogant about pig-headedness.

  • racarrera

    A cesspool of trash peddled from Alexander Hislop and his spawn. If this is what you call scholarship, just give up. No one will respect you for peddling such junk.

  • Yes John, but you need to start finding out about Alexander Hislop. Time to move up in your search. Tell us, what do you know about Alexander Hislop?

  • I start by what I asked for before. You presented short bullets of objections. I gave you the response from my own links, you went deaf. Completely deaf. Yet you continued shooting the pellets all over again.

    Again, for the SECOND time, my response to all your complaints are here:

    Your refutation to my rebuttal is?

    This is how it works around here. You come in, shoot pellets, we turn around and send a few scuds your way and expect either a strong retaliation or complete surrender.

    We take no prisoners 😉

    • John Carter

      To be honest, I started reading and fell asleep. Why waste time reading dribble when I could be reading something educational , like the Bible. Never made it to the end and probably wont. So give me the readers digest version of why you think

      • “Why waste time reading dribble when I could be reading something educational , like the Bible.”

        This type of argument is the argument of a complete ignoramus. Do you use ONLY the Bible when you study math, history, geography, classics, music, art, engineering, political science … NO. Do you open the Bible when your home is on fire or if someone is breaking into your home or do you dial 911?

        I can’t even ask you to quit acting stupid because if I do you will not even recognize how stupid you really are and instead of recognizing your stupidity you will simply get angry with the person who is giving you the advise.

        “So give me the readers digest version of why you think”

        Once you are able construct a meaningful sentence maybe I will.

        Go ahead, even you read your sentence above. No one can tell what you are even saying. Everyone here even knows your babble is not even worth looking at. Someone tells you that you are repeating Hislop and you do not even know who Hislop is. While that is maybe okay since you do not know much, but to avoid looking up the name to see where you got your dumb ideas from is no excuse. No historian agrees with Hislop. People like you bring up fiction like Semiramis gave birth to a son named Tammuz, was instrumental as the queen, and wife of Nimrod the founder of Babylon and its religion which was copied by the Catholic Church. Now you want us to tell you about Hislop while we endure your slop?

        I have seen so many men about your age in this country who are as immature as a kindergartner. You are not worth waisting any more time with, therefore, I will put you on complete ignore. Go find tree leaves to chew on grasshopper or go to Yemen and chew khat.

        And by the way, don’t try to comeback trying to act witty, it will not work.

  • racarrera;imode

    And since you’re on this site:

    He is the father of everything you’ve spouted, as no Christian from 33 AD to 1850 would have thought any of your commentary to be serious. All heresies have a culprit. He is among the worst.

  • Lay_monk

    John, the intent wasn’t “naming calling.” The intent was to give you an honest response in a respectful manner.

    I openly sympathised with the errors you have fallen into, and admitted that I shared some of them for a time. That was before I began to seriously study the Church’s position on these matters. Then the protestant errors I held were irrefutably dismantled piece by piece.

    The arguments you’ve shared are arguments the regulars here have heard a thousand times over. They are nothing new. That’s why I used the word ‘amateurish.’ It wasn’t meant to be disrespectful. It was once again written in the context and tone of the email i.e. sympathetically.

    I didn’t call ‘you’ a heretic, I said that your views are heretical, and that your culpability is lessened by your ignorance. Does that infer that you are a heretic? Yes. Do I have any interest in directly vilifying you as one? No. I would love to see you take the time and energy required to study the Catholic faith objectively.

    Heresy is a MAJOR deal to Christ. He went as far as saying this about those who blaspheme the Holy Ghost:

    Mark 3:28-29

    28 Amen I say to you, that all sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and the blasphemies wherewith they shall blaspheme:

    29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, shall never have forgiveness, but shall be guilty of an everlasting sin.

    This isn’t to be taken lightly. That’s why I’ve shared the truth with you charitably.

    Remember, your culpability is lessened due to your ignorance of Catholic doctrine. I doubt (and hope) by the responses you’ve shared that you have ever taken the time required to seriously study and understand the Catholic faith.

    I don’t want to make assumptions beyond what you’ve shared with us. You’ve stated that you researched the anti-catholic material the online world is saturated with. You haven’t shared (to my knowledge), when you were baptised, what you’ve studied outside of this, etc. You simply told us the Catholic Church is the Synagogue of Satan (paraphrasing), and that you are a monotheist.

    John, I hold no ill will toward you, and sincerely hope that you study the material I recommended or other respected and authoritative Catholic sources. Radio Replies is a free 5 volume series available online. That’s more than enough to get you started. The Catholic Catechism is also available at a bargain price.

    Please, continue to pray to our Lord with an open heart and mind. That way you’ll be receptive to anything He might be trying to share with you that’s contrary to your present views.

    God’s best to you, sir.

    • Hey Monk, I’ve not seen anything from you in some days and glad you didn’t disappear. You are one of the good ones. When I realised the confusion within Protestantism and my own lack of answers required me to search out the ancient church, I did not start doing searches of what critics said about the Orthodox and Catholic. I decided I needed to let them explain themselves. What do they believe and why? I must let them tell me. For the most part I’ve been very satisfied and often wowed by their doctrinal explanations. I’ve got a long way to go it seems and not much time I suspect. I feel like I’ve gone into slow motion. Anyway, my recommendation for anyone searching is to go to the source. I’m not going to find out the truth about anyone by going just to the critics.

      • Lay_monk

        Hello dear friend,

        You know I’m all about Catholic doctrine and obedience to the Magesterium as defined in our Catechism (as a Catholic).

        Christ, God in the flesh Himself told us that He is Truth. The Bible also tells us that God is Love. He is both.

        The more one comes to know the truth about God, the more he or she comes to love Him, and vice versa. Any Christian who is all ‘head knowledge’ and no heart, does not know our Lord. The same way as any Christian who is all devotional sentiment and no doctrine doesn’t know our Lord.

        We don’t need to be theologians or scholars to love and worship Christ. But there is some basic wisdom we require. I suspect you’ve already graduated from the basics based on our past exchanges.

        On that note, I’d like to recommend to you a book that was first published in the 18th century. It’s titled, ‘Abandoning Oneself to Divine Providence.’

        You can study a free version here:

        You can purchase a cheap paperback copy here:

        I will leave this limited message account open for anyone that would like to reach out to me for any reason.

        God’s best to you brother.

        • York University? Are you Canadian by chance, living in Toronto?

          • Lay_monk


            My nation, Australia, is a part of the Commonwealth though.

            You can thank a trusty internet “search engine” for the York University link 😉

  • Instruct a wise and he will appreciate it, but instruct a fool and he will reproach you.

    How do I know you are a fool? Simple, you never address the topic that is brought to you and you will always change the subject.

    As I Tod you, you will be put on ignore by me. This will be the last instruction to you. Good day.

    • Grandmere

      Amen and SNAP

  • racarrera


  • racarrera

    Then you’re admitting that you’re an ignorant fool prattling fairy tales made by your cult.

  • racarrera

    Grandmere, who isn’t Roman Catholic (she’s Anglican), has a far better grasp of history and church doctrine that you will ever have.

    • Grandmere

      Julie L and I went to the EWTN Family Celebration this past weekend. We drove up to the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament. The most beautiful Church I have even seen. We were both so blessed. If only people could open their hearts to the Holy Trinity. We must pray for them. XO

      • racarrera

        I wish they would, but that is up to God to open their hearts. Too many are proud and pig-headed, so they will suffer for it.

  • racarrera

    You flatter yourself. You’re not worth banning.

  • Julie

    It was the Turks, Afghans, and Crimeans who wiped out 10 million Indians to force Islam on them. They reverted back to Hinduism.

    Wonder if it is something innate in Pakistani culture that likes hatred and human atrocity.

    You should look up first the Ottoman empire, how it started.

    It was the Seljuk Turks that caused the Crusades…after 400 years of trouble, the church finally did something about it. The women pilgrims suffered a worse fate, and it is similar to what we see now from ISIS.

    It is the Turks that essentially wiped out the better part of Christianity in Turkey, imposed the Child Tax. The concubines, mostly Christian women.

    (Egypt, Syria, Palestine were once teeming Christian populations wiped out by the Umayyids who had a penchant for using islam writings to make land grabs. Muhammed never wanted Jerusalem. And if he had risen to heaven as they state, he would have risen next to the then present Catholic Church of ST. Mary Major of Justinian, which of course the Muslims destroyed over time.)

    The Turks wiped out Smyrna in 1922 with American Navy standing by doing nothing until our sailors and those of Italy, stepped in. Atrocities.

    Cyprus in 1974, same MO, going door to door and raping, slaughtering.

    Ergodan thinks he is the next world wide totalitarian leader of Islam.

    The USA needs to pull out its support of Turkey. It has been to war with Russia 9 times, loosing 7.

    Our Clinton administration handed over Kosovo to the Muslims. Kosovo is to Serbian Orthodoxy as Rome is to Western Latin Catholics.

    The missing piece is the Universal Church — Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch, Rome, Constantinople patriarchs. Protestant America needs to study its history.

    The missing piece to understanding the whole picture is that it is Islam vs universal Christianity in the context I just gave you.

    Only the Standard of the Cross will eventually defeat Islam and because of the internet and social media, Muslims all over are seeing its dark side. Expect conversions to Christianity in the future. It is happening in Germany.

  • Julie

    I would add to the below.

    Our next problem after the defeat of Islam, and it will come in time, is China.

    They created artificial islands in China South Sea and is preparing for war.

    Had a friend who had a Chinese American friend who went to China in the 1980’s. On practically every street corner people were excercising and saying by the year 2000 they would take over the world.

    China is in Africa leaving Africans essentially alone, ‘not trying to change them’ using their labor to reap tremendous natural resources by building large highways for them in exchange.

    It is the borderless American transnationals reaping tremendous profits with its ties to China.

    We as a nation, we the common people, see China for what it is.

    And the Christian population there is rising to match the communists…and some day China, too, will become Christian.

    About the West, it has turned its back on faith and morals. Putin’s gripe as well.

  • Grandmere

    May God have mercy on your soul. You are lost, John.