A Massive Apostasy Is Taking Place Right Now As American Evangelical Christian Leaders Admit They Are In A Free Fall Collapse

Christianity worldwide, especially in Muslim nations has been exploding with converts in the millions. However, the opposite is happening in America. Just as Europe is suffering from an ongoing and seemingly irreversibly apostasy from its Christian roots, American Evangelicalism is suffering a quiet, mass apostasy that threatens the very existence of American Christianity itself:

My friend Rod Dreher is as sane and stable as anyone I know, and he’s saying, in essence, that the sky is falling. I reference his new article in The American Conservative, called “The Coming Christian Collapse.”

He begins by saying that the two-thirds of millennials who were raised religiously unaffiliated still have no denominational identity today. Unlike previous generations, they’re not joining churches as they get older and raise kids.

Second, Rod says, “Millennials, even those who identify as Christians, are shockingly illiterate, both in terms of what the Bible says and more generally regarding what Christianity teaches.”

This growing biblical illiteracy has led to a moral decline of our young people into consumerism, drug abuse, sexual liberation, and civic and political disengagement.

Third, Rod says that the working class has largely abandoned the church, and that if the middle class follows suit, as appears likely, the church will be in a world of hurt. He quotes the late Michael Spencer, who warned of a coming evangelical collapse: “We Evangelicals have failed to pass on to our young people an orthodox form of faith that can take root and survive the secular onslaught.” (source)

The essay by Rod Dreher that Eric Metaxas is referring to is well worth the read. In summary, American Christianity is rapidly disappearing, having lost its social strength and becoming a target of scorn and rejection by the greater society. In his view, Christians need to adopt a “Benedict option.” Named in honor of St. Benedict of Nursia, the patron saint of Europe and exorcists, Christians need to form small communities in which to transmit and pass down their faith as the greater society around them dissolves just as Christians of the world of antiquity did:

 Millennials, even those who identify as Christian, are shockingly illiterate, both in terms of what the Bible says and more generally regarding what Christianity teaches. I trust you don’t need me to repeat again Christian Smith’s findings showing that Moralistic Therapeutic Deism — a bland, undemanding, non-specific religion parasitic on Christianity — has taken over US religious institutions and has displaced authentic Christianity, especially among the young.

In my own informal conversations with college professors — both progressive and conservative, and both at Christian and secular institutions of higher learning — this finding has been abundantly confirmed. The ignorance is so widespread and profound that most of their students don’t even know what they don’t know. Which leads us to:

If we lose the middle and upper classes, we lose the church. For various reasons, churchgoing in America is primarily something that educated middle and upper class Americans do. Charles Murray, among others, has highlighted research showing that the working class has largely abandoned church. If Christianity is to survive in the US, it cannot afford to lose middle class Americans. Of course Christianity must especially be for the poor and working classes, but at this point in its history in the US, the poor and working classes have already left, and the middle classes are hemorrhaging.College is (at least for now) a common middle class experience. If we lose these kids in (or by) college, they’re gone. According to my anecdotal information, supplemented by the research from Smith et al., this has already happened. (source)

Both of these articles are well worth the full read, as they discuss major issues that are often times ignored. They are well reasoned and thought provoking.

But I’ll give a simpler and more daunting reason why “American Christianity” is collapsing. That reason is because “American Christianity” is a social religion. It is a product of and subject to the spirit of the times in which it lives, existing an independent organism with a false conception of its very self. It could never survive long-term because it was inherently heretical and doomed from its inception, and what we are witnessing is its natural and really, inevitable death.

While American Christianity is originally based in European Protestant movements such as Anglicanism, Lutheranism, and Calvinism, the Fundamentals series of books synthesized these views and form the basis of modern American Evangelicalism. It is not possible to understand American Christianity without these books (which can be purchased here)

American Christianity, or as some call it, “American Evangelicalism,” is a hybrid of mixed and varying Protestant ideas imported from the nations and peoples of Western and Northern Europe who sided with preachers and political leaders against the Catholic Church beginning in the 16th century with the Protestant Revolution as filtered through the Fundamentalist declarations of the early 20th century in combination with secular ideas about American nationalism and her place in the world with contemporary American culture. It is unique in that it is a product of a revolution that is ongoing, changing with each generation but always connecting itself back to the “early church” and then the Protestant revolution that bore it while skipping over the 13 centuries from Constantine to Luther.

Characterized by an anti-authority mindset on one hand and an insular view on the other, it gives rise to countless sects that all claim to be the true “church” that represents most accurately the teachings and will of Christ. They will teach from the same Bible and claim that the same Holy Spirit is constantly speaking to them, elucidating and clarifying the truths that have not changed for two millennia, and they will all call each other Christians and part of the same “church”, which they identify as the “body of Christ” that is constituted of anybody who associates himself with the name of “Christian.” Yet these same “Christians” fight and constantly split over small points of doctrine or discipline, forming new congregations and claiming authority over each other from the same Bible with absolute ruthlessness. The result will be that when all of these “churches” are looked at from an all-encompassing perspective, they share absolutely no unity whatsoever with regard to anything, including basic dogmas that go so far as down to the very divinity of Christ, having the veneer of being called “Christians” yet with no unity and fighting constantly like a bunch of chickens at a cock fight except when it comes to criticism of the Catholic Church, in which there is a common understanding that is usually anti-Catholic.

A cockfight, or the bickering that happens between American Evangelical sects today. But all joking aside, the fighting is real because while none will recognize the authority of the Pope there is absolutely no union of doctrine since each man is given the self-appointed authority to act as his own pope. The result is an ineffective, weak, flaccid Christianity defined by platitudes that attempt to make the problem of doctrine and heresy without addressing it while fighting over these same issues in a way that is a fruitless and destructive as a cock fight.

The weak point of American evangelicalism is this lack of unity in any sense, for while these same people will universally agree they are not Catholic or support “the Pope,” each man is able to crown himself his own self-appointed pope by his own authority. This is a major issue that cannot be avoided. However, the way that they will attempt to compensate for this is to, as mentioned above, say that we are all just “mere Christians” (referring to the title of C.S. Lewis’ book, Mere Christianity,) and say that differences really do not matter in the greater understanding of what it means to be a Christians because we all are “believers in Christ.”

 

The effects of this compensation are compounded by two factors. First, is by teaching in their “seminaries” about “Christian history” that is almost always filtered through secondary and tertiary sources, learning about events from people who have written about said events and not consulting the primary sources from which the record of said events derived. Second, is by appealing to the cultural and social feelings of the times, usually through popular music and cultural idioms, to generate positive emotions that people then attach to their particular church or pastor, leading to the phenomenon of “pastors” who have cult-like followings and mega-churches which collapse soon after that pastor dies or in embroiled in a scandal, after which said people move on to a new “church.”

The full lyrics to the song Our God is an Awesome God. While well meaning, the song is shallow, vapid, and an insult in comparison to the great music produced by Christians for centuries. Even the man who wrote the song, Rich Mullins, said it is “poorly crafted” and called it “one of the worst songs I ever wrote,” but its explosive popularity among Evangelicals shows something into the nature of their faith. While there are many well-intentioned people, the foundation these people are given for their faith is inherently faulty, based on an emotional appeal and lacking in any sort of tradition.

The combination of these three issues- a lack of unity, a lack of historicity, and an appeal to the senses- form a religious outlook that is as attractive to the senses, delicious on initial taste, and unfulfilling and deadly to one’s spiritual health as a plate deep-fried oreos is to your physical health. American “Christianity” is shallow and allows a man to believe as he wants. With a focus on emotions and a “personal encounter with Christ,” the person’s feelings are lifted and given guide over his intellect when it should be the other way around. With a lack of historicity, the traditions of the past are not transmitted, but created in the image of the times they represent. Thus the “early church” so often spoken about by “Christians” mirrors in certain congregations the “old tyme religion” of late 19th century American revivalism, the “holiness” sects of the early 20th century, the conservatism of the 1950s, the rock-concert style “church services” of the 1980s, or the sharp-dressed prosperity gospel preachers of the current times. It is the manufacture of history in the image of contemporary American culture, imposing the view of the present on a culture, place, and in a time completely alien to the people they claim to share a connection with.

While there are many American Evangelicals who oppose Freemasonry, it is not a surprise that Freemasonry has a rich following in very “Christian” areas of America, such as the Bible Belt. This is because the religion is synonymous with social and national ideas and, while not openly seeing themselves as a “national church,” their doctrinal positions are shaped with the spirit of the age and the culture and are subject to constant change. Thus while the “American ideals” of “liberty” are inherently Masonic and really very anti-Christian, the Evangelical will repeat them because, as he understands through the lens of his congregation, he is simply supporting his country as a Christian. It is less an act of intentional malice on the part of the common man but rather a reflection of the deception he has been taught.

By creating eine Kirche des Zeitgeistes with each generation, its understanding of the world is filtered through the American political and social climate. This explains why there is such a strong involvement, especially in modern times, in politics with American evangelicals, because their understanding of religion is tied to a sense of American nationalism. It does not matter that the ideas of America- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness- are indeed derived from the highly anti-Christian and evil Freemasonry movement, reflecting the French Revolution’s principles of fraternite, liberte, egalite– fraternity, liberty, egalitarianism.

However, this is particularly interesting when contrasted with the traditional Christian understanding  of the role of religion in government. For Catholics and the Orthodox, the “three estates” of society- the government, the church, and the people- were a reflection for them of the role of God in a cosmological sense, where the government and in particular, the King, ruled benevolently over his subjects who obeyed him, and in turn the subjects respected and protected the king, with the Church being the moral standard and buffer that bound and protected each from excesses from either side. Likewise, it is also why apostolic Christians always tended to favor monarchs and the monarchies.

These varying and contradictory, warring ideas have always been present in American Christianity and because of the lack of any ability to articulate and define a clear authority about what to teach, which is something that it cannot do because each person claims to have equal authority to define the same teachings, then there can be no clear definition as to what is right and wrong and who can correctly interpret what Jesus taught. This is also the reason why the Catholic Church has always been at the best tolerated, and very often despised throughout American history.

Now it is only fair that at the same time in mentioning the evangelical Protestant sects, one also address the dire situation of the Catholic Church in the United States. Having been highly influenced post Vatican II by a desire to become like the world instead of standing in resistance to it (which was a major criticism of the encyclicals Gaudium et Spes and the infamous Rerum Novarum). This desire to become “Americanized” is a huge problem and has caused much of the scandal, heresy, and problems in the Church in America in the past and today. Just like the Evangelicals, the Catholic Church is also suffering its own free-fall collapse in the main Novus Ordo ranks.

St. Nicholas punching out Arius the heretic. At this time in the fourth century AD, 90% of the bishops and about 75% of the laity were Arians in the Catholic Church. This is a good model for our current times because like then, the Catholic Church is infected today with heretics and apostasy. However, what differentiates the Church from the evangelical congregations is that the Church is established by Christ, and just like with Arianism, she will eventually purge the heretics and apostasy from her ranks by the grace of God and will re-emerge stronger than ever. The evangelicals, unfortunately, because they were not founded by Christ, lack both the grace and the authority to do this purge, and they will either be folded back into the one truth Faith or they will simply apostatize and return to a pre-Christian state.

But the current situation of the Church today does not reflect on its teachings, because as the Church has always taught, dogma cannot change because it comes from God even if the majority of people deny it, such as with the Arian crisis of the 4th century. If one looks beyond the outlandish criticism and phony conspiracy theories promoted by anti-Catholic writers throughout the centuries and the well-meaning but genuinely misguided attempts of ignorant evangelicals who think they have to “save Catholics because they are not Christians”, one finds that in the minds of the intelligent people- those who know and understand something of sacred scripture and tradition- the resistance is not because they do not believe or understand, but it is because they are arrogant and do not want to submit to proper authority. In the words of one evangelical Christian I was conversing with about this issue, who could not dispute the lack of authority and genuinely knew something of Church history and tradition, he said that he would rather be an evangelical than submit because “the Protestants were always rebels and I’ve always been a rebel too.”

I have only two words to say about this: James White

But  regardless of the Evangelical resistance to the Catholic Church, their lack of historicity, apostolicity, and authority and the fruit they bear of a shallow, emotional, sociocultural “Christianity” cannot be hidden, just ignored. Eventually, enough people- especially the children of said people who during their formative years are most likely to rebel against what their parents taught them- will take note of this emptiness. While some will follow as their parents, some leave the Church for the Catholics or the Orthodox in pursuit of something more substantial and real. Most leave the Evangelicals all together and do not come back, associating Christianity with their experiences from growing up.

Since their conception of Christianity is immutably tied to their understanding of the society, while certainly it can evolve, it will become something not at all like what it was before, forever changed and re-shaped by the times in which they live. In most cases, such extreme changes cannot be tolerated and the system collapses under the stress, which is what one sees happening right now. If that were not enough, the issue of grace and authority will destroy it, because whereas the Catholic Church possesses the grace and authority from Christ given to St. Peter, it does not matter what evils befall or infect it because God’s hand is on her as per sacred scripture and tradition. This is why the Church has been able to endure revolutions, wars, the rise and fall of entire civilizations, and at times the most horrible leadership examples ever given in human history yet somehow miraculously does not collapse- because she is God’s Church that like the ark of Noah in ages past will bring those who gather into and stay with her to salvation while the rest of the world around her perishes.

Now I do feel compassion for the Evangelicals, for they are lost and confused and for good reason. Some of them regret what has happened with the current state of American Christianity, and long for the days of “old time religion.” Yet that old time religion, the fullness of truth, is actually not that far away from them, for if they are willing to take a hard and honest look at themselves and the state of their doctrines, they will find the very thing they were taught to oppose is what they have been seeking for.

Now this is real old time religion, and yet it is as new as ever.

 

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  • Juan

    Very good article Andrew,

    The U.S. are the results of Calvinists plus Freemasonry. American Christianity is deprived of Authority, Apostolic Succession and Sacraments and of course leads to emotionalism, subjectivism and apostasy.
    Based on Martin Luther and Jean Calvin pride and subjectivism, the puritans faith leads by itself to emptiness and united to Freemasonry becomes the Moralistic Deism that dominates American Life.
    The worship of Liberty is idolatry, clearly expressed in pagan goddess Statue at New York. Masonic Moralistic Deism and prometeic-luciferian Freedom constitute the core, the most deep essence of the United States of America, a country funded against Jesuchrist.
    Average American people aren’t aware of all this but the reality is that the same people who organized French Revolution and destroyed Catholic French Monarchy also created the U.S.
    Masonic republic is Antichristian.
    I think that the best option for American people would be to MAKE AMERICA GREAT (BRITAIN) AGAIN. After this first step Great Britain should come back to Catholicism, abandoning also the Masonic way of life.

    • Craig A. Mouldey

      I’m not near educated on the Masons and how their influence created America Juan. Liberty or freedom sounds good to me when compared with being a slave. How is that a bad thing? Help me out here.

      • PaulF

        The words of Jesus: “Truly, truly I say to you, whoever commits sin is the slave of sin. Now a slave abides not in the house forever, but a son abides in it forever. If the Son therefore sets you free, you will be free indeed” (John 8:34-36).
        There is only one way to be free, and that is to receive your freedom from Christ, by the power of his Blood, and by putting your faith in him.
        Placing one’s trust in demonic religion is the quickest way to become a slave.
        Freedom of religion = freedom to commit idolatry = freedom to commit sin = freedom to be in bondage to demons = freedom to be a slave.

        • Ceirwyn

          I was always taught freedom was the ability to choose to do what is right. So freedom isn’t the issue, getting the definition right is.

          Sort of like how some denominations focus on Faith and others on Grace when the scriptures clearly state it’s both (grace through faith).

    • mikifenn

      The problems with Evangelical Churches has nothing to do with Freemasons. Most people in the Evangelical world have never even heard of a Freemasons. The problem is the pastors many of whom are not born again and are people pleasers. Some do not allow people in the pews to worship by raising their hands, they have diminished the power of the Holy Spirit and they no longer have altar calls inviting people to accept Christ as their Savior.

      • Nan

        The problem is that they’re manmade religions without Apostolic Succession.

  • ezekiel22

    Up to a point I think you are right. In America religion is easy especially being a Christian. You have all different religions being broadcast into your homes, on your computer, over the radio. There is no buy in except for send in your donations or for your magic healing cloth. Pretty sad really.
    In older days you went to church to learn and to socialize and strengthen each other. Not today. Today we have followers and friends. I scares me what it will take to wake people up enough to take action.

  • AnthonyM

    Good article Andrew, valid points made.

    The natural progression for a Catholic after leaving the Catholic faith for Protestantism is to first begin to hate the Catholic Church, then continue down the slippery slope to become a non-practicing Protestant over time, while still calling themselves Christian. It is really sad, but predictable.

    • Vinny Zee

      Yes Anthony, right on. If one wants to learn to hate the Catholic church, as a protestant. If one wants to learn to love the Catholic church, ask a Catholic.

      • mikifenn

        Well Vinny you are calling the kettle black. From what I read on here Catholics are not too fond of non-Catholics.

        • Vinny Zee

          How so?

  • 1Bobby8

    Only the Catholic Church will last until the end of time.

    • Higlac

      Are you including or excluding the Orthodox? Furthermore, there are some Anglicans and Lutherans who’ll gladly join Orthodoxy or even Catholicism under the right conditions, e.g., Anglicanorum Cœtibus.

      • 1Bobby8

        Yes, I would include Eastern Orthodox Apostolic Churches.

      • Vinny Zee

        There is the problem however Higlac. Who is anyone to set what conditions there needs to be for one to come home to the Church? I can sympathize with the thought; yes. However, until one leaves their preconceived notions and desires at the door, they will find it hard to enter in.

      • Craig A. Mouldey

        I’m always watching for a comment from you Mr. Higlac, wondering and hoping all is well with you just down the road. Good to see you again.

        • Higlac

          Thank you very much, Mr. Mouldey. It’s here that I feel that it’s possible to reach out to like-minded fellow-Christians with whom I can be at peace. It’s virtually impossible in my community, especially given how enough people here have reason (at least in their minds) to disdain &/or loathe me.

          • Craig A. Mouldey

            This is the one draw back with living in a small community. Gossiping. You may know little to nothing about some person down the road but they likely know a lot about you, whether true or false. I think the best we can do is not to intrude but be available to others in times of need. Be as good a neighbour as we can. And if anyone is nasty, avoid them and never act that way in kind. It is amazing how easily people can get offended though.

  • Craig A. Mouldey

    What you have identified with American churches made me think not to far back in early 2016, in January. I had been listening nightly to an internet radio program-news from a ‘Christian, non Orthodox, Apostolic, Catholic perspective’. There was a forum connected with the nightly broadcast. And one night I just knew. Something is terribly wrong here. This is utter confusion. There was no orthodoxy and no authority. The furthest anyone went back in history for support was the Luther rebellion. That was not near good enough for me. As I now know, that is when the confusion began to explode. No, I wanted to know, I needed to know if there was a church that has been existing from the beginning. And no, the usual line that anyone who identifies as a Christian is part of the original church will not do. I have made contact. I hope I have enough time to at least get the first steps done to be part of the family for real. I’m not liking what I see happening in this world.

    • Vinny Zee

      Guard your steps brother. The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church is always here and welcoming for one to come home.

  • Vinny Zee

    Well written article Andrew, thanks. You touched on so many points, I don’t think any additional comments will do. Since I returned home, I see so many of my brothers and sisters still struggling in their evangelical ways. However, they’d rather struggle than call the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church home.

  • Kamau41

    Protestantism/American Evangelicalism is dying. Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says in paragraphs 2087-88 regarding the true Christian Faith:
    “Our moral life has its source in faith in God who reveals his love to us. St. Paul speaks of the “obedience of faith”9 as our first obligation. He shows that “ignorance of God” is the principle and explanation of all moral deviations. Our duty toward God is to believe in him and to bear witness to him.

    The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

    Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.”

    Furthermore, in paragraph 2089, the Church’s Catechism speaks clearly about Heresy, Apostasy, and Schism:

    “Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

  • PaulF

    Christians are always in trouble when they stop ‘building yourselves up on the foundation of your most holy Faith’ (Jude v.20).
    St John of the Cross taught that we ascend the mountain to God by a ‘secret ladder,’ which is our Faith, the Faith taught by the apostles and handed down by the Church; and he taught that the rungs of that ladder are the articles of our Faith.
    Wherever the church is in trouble you can bet your bottom dollar that it has forgotten to build itself up on the foundation of its most holy Faith, and has made a false faith out of praising the religions hostile to Christ.

  • magaforever

    Eric metaxas has a great 10 minute video where he explains the revelation God gave him through his dreams.. Anyone who hasnt seen it watch it .. http://www.iamsecond.com/seconds/eric-metaxas/

  • Ceirwyn

    Yeah, pretty much all the denominations are screwed up and fragmented in the west. It’s a big reason I refuse to officially join any of them and only go where I sense God is actually there. Most western churches are spiritually dead, regardless of denomination. That’s the real reason people are leaving.

    Most of the non catholic denominations do have spiritual authority and codified beliefs, but the root of the problem all the way around is men failing to care about their spiritual lives with the Holy Spirit. This makes it hard to find decons, elders, or priests of any kind. Then you have the chunk that are evil and just want the authority to abuse. And then the chunk who want to earn favor with God by doing something for their own glory, never spending the time with God to hear His voice so they can work with God. Most men in the west have abandoned their role as head and have abandoned God, inserting their on male ego in His place.

    • mikifenn

      Many Christian pastors are not born again or they fear this Biblical concept will not be well received by the congregation. The Christian Church has lost its Biblical roots and the word “sin” is to radical to even mention in church.

      • Nan

        We were born again at Baptism.

        • mikifenn

          That’s not what Jesus said. “Ye must be born again.”

  • Ceirwyn

    This is true. The local Presbyterian church is packed with 30 year olds with kids. The Baptist churches are also doing well for the most part. But to understand this, you need to know the Baptist churches are geared toward practical community service, and that this is in the southeastern region, where few other denominations have really made an effort to go (too many poor rednecks and blacks). The presbyterian church is actually filled with former baptists, and fulfilling a mission God wants done in the area, which is why they’re doing well.

    Evangelical isn’t a clearly defined denomination, but a catchall for several different groups, some of which are doing okay. When they say “evangelical growth”, they usually mean the Baptist churches .

  • mikifenn

    Pastors no longer are preaching sermons that are Bible based. Some are becoming people pleases who do not want to offend the congregation and there are those who play secular music during the worship service. Many Christians are dismayed by what is happening. Unless there is a strong move of God in the near future and the Christian Church returns to its Biblical roots this will get worse.

  • mikifenn

    Joan Simpson, you are absolutely correct. Christian pastors, Sunday School teachers and parents do not educate the children to explain the science of the Bible and the weakness of the Theory of Evolution. Then they send them to a liberal college and Professors love destroying the faith of the young students.

  • mikifenn

    I know one, I repeat just one, Christian couple who thinks abortion is not so bad since so many women later repent of their abortion and come to Christ. One Christian woman I know thinks handing out condoms to prostitute is being Christlike and caring because this tells the prostitute someone cares about you and wants you to be safe. I have heard Donny Swaggart preach on TV and he doesn’t mince words. May his tribe increase!

  • David W

    I was always curious about church growth in the American church scene. Some analysts say that it is merely lateral–in other words, people hopping or changing churches. Sometimes the change is for a good reason. Our Orthodox parish is primarily converts from Protestantism.

    Off topic– I came from an inner city with literally dozens of churches near me. Storefront churches, with the “seven nights of revival and healing” displays! And the attendees were mainly females, very few young men. And these areas were VERY dangerous places to walk, even during the day! I wonder whose wallets and personal fortunes were revived at these places.

  • Tom_mcewen

    1517AD one Protestant church or more properly confession, today 03-17-2017 57875 Protestant confessions, each the true church with the true gospel and the true understanding of biblical scripture. 2+2=4 if not 4 then it is not true. Mush killed Western Protestant europe, America is on the same yellow brick road and the flying green monkeys are going to win.

    • Vinny Zee

      Tom, is there a website or something where you go to get a stat like that as of 3-17-2017? Or was that just an arbitrary number to underscore a point? I’d be curious to check it out if you have a website? Thanks.

      • Tom_mcewen

        I used biblecatholic.com and it uses the the world encyclopedia of christianityworld’s religions

  • Renato Steri

    Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
    As it was in the beginning, and now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
    God has never changed, neither has His law.

  • Juan

    Yes, and the answer for Roman Catholicism crisis is to come back to Orthodoxy (at least regarding Pope’s authority, that is to be a first among equals and not an absolute king). We need One Universal Church based on Apostolic Succession and Sacraments. With this Church we can defeat Jesuchrist’s and Christendom’s enemies.

    • Cuzick

      Juan, it will probably take much tribulation on a global scale for the original five Patriarchates embracing the First Seven Ecumenical Councils to restore full communion. Looking back thru church history, around the 800 -1000 year mark when division entered in and has continued to date. Most protestant / evangelical Christians have never researched, for themselves , the history of Christianity before the 16th century. Christians in the west have missed so much by not embracing the entire history of the Church and not knowing the depth of timeless wisdom found in the Orthodox Church because of the schism.
      We are in the midst of the great falling away [ II Thessalonians 2:3 ], the Antichrist spirit is having his way in preparing the world for his revealing and Christendom is asleep. Prideful men in leadership of the Apostolic Succession and Protestant / Evangelical churches , because of the love of power and mammon, will not humble themselves and do what needs to be done. All the while the sheep are scattered and their lives destroyed by the wolves. Thank God for Shoebat.com and all the good people who support this site. Let us prepare ourselves for the refiners fire that is coming to the churches. I Peter 4 : 17

      • Juan

        I agree with you Cuzick, not only Evangelical/Prostestant churches but also Roman Catholic traditionalists cannot look to Church’s History before 16th century. Traditionalists are obsessed with Council of Trento and Scholastic… they have a rationalist and legalistic view of Christianity, tending to forget supernatural issues and study of Patristic (some Novus Ordo priests are more open to supernatural issues and Patristic than traditionalists with Trento, Trento and more Trento and Aquinas, Aquinas and more Aquinas).
        You are also absolutely right regarding the difficulty of the five Patriarchates to restore full communion in Orthodoxy accepting First Seven Ecumenical Councils.
        Refinement is coming and God will use muslims and specially the Turks to instill humbleness in all Christian hearts, in all denominations.
        The Church will be unified and will triumph over her enemies (NON PRAEVALEBUNT) but first we have to pass trough refinement.

        • Cuzick

          Well said Juan. Most in the west seem to view God as the ancient Greek god Zeus who sits in heaven waiting for us to mess up so he can strike us down, that we can never please him or have an intimate relationship with him. The Church of the First Seven Echumenical Councils remind us we were created in Gods image and wanted to restore and heal the relationship between God and man that was fractured due to the sin that entered in at the Garden. Jesus restored that relationship thru the Cross for us. God loves us and sees us as his children, not a bunch of law breakers with no hope. I found these videos, while looking into Church history, that beautifully introduces the Eastern Church. We have missed out not being in communion with them.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Je2n6ygR4

    • Grace Ziem

      Maybe I’ll get hammered here, but I don’t consider Frances to be “first among equals” He mislead Catholics seriously about Islam and if he had spoken out in truth earlier, history in the US and/or Europe may have been somewhat different. How can I trust a “leader” who makes mistakes like that? (My pastor invited Walid to enlighten us on Islam!)

      • Juan

        I was talking about the Pope in abstract. Without any doubt Francis (like John Paul II, Paul VI and John XXIII) is a wolf in lamb clothes.
        After Vatican II Council there were only two good Popes: John Paul I (assassinated) and Benedict XVI (forced to resign). Satanists are ruling the Vatican.

        • Higlac

          What do you have against John-Paul II? [Hopefully you’ll not mind the question – I honestly wish to know…]

  • Tom_mcewen

    We don’t as catholics think that is bad, America has what I call California cafeteria Catholics, they take what they want off the line and eat only what they like. The catechism is 864 pages long and you don’t get to pick and choose. Pope Benedict said there will be a smaller catholic church and we don’t mind at all. I would rather as others have a floor of solid foundation then a large floor of rot. We for some reason don’t believe in OSAS or almost anything that protestants believe in the last 300 years, but we do believe that hell will not overwhelm the church. Navy sailors have the same feeling for their ship, they may die as long as the ship survive. We personally have no guarantees on salvation, that is above our pay grade and we are to obey. As John 3:16 says in the Koine Greek. We are the only glue holding Protestantism together with their hate of us, other wise they would fall on each other and rendered the other into ribbons. So we serve God even in hate.

    • Vinny Zee

      The two Roman Rite churches closest to me have 15,000 and approximately 8-10,000 members respectively. I attend a small Eastern Byzantine Rite, which has about 35 members. Its perfect for me. Especially after coming home from the mega-church evangelical gatherings. Even within Evangelicalism, I always preferred the smaller gatherings, though the larger ones had more to offer (but it was all a show in the end.)

    • Michelle Therese

      “We are the only glue holding Protestantism together with their hate of us,…”

      EXACTLY!
      Protest-ant, living in perpetual protest against the Catholic Church!

  • Tom_mcewen

    Why not, that is the Fathers job to judge. Man existed before christianity, there must be a way for them to be offered salvation. The thief on the cross was with Jesus and where was Jesus, teaching those from the time of Noah, are they not too the lost sheep and didn’t Christ go looking for them? I don’t judge the mercy of God, nor do I put limits on I AM who is the creator of space and time and logos divine reason and creative order behind the material laws of the universe.

    • Tzione

      “Christian-ity” existed from the beginning of time because the CHRIST/Messiah was with the Father from the beginning…Genesis=”Let US create man in OUR image”.The thief on the cross had faith,like Abraham.Yes,He said he “came Only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”I AM,IS the creator of space & time,which unfortunately,we are forced to live in,but HE does not.

  • Kamau41

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this ROCK I will build my CHURCH, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”(Matt 16:18-19)

  • PaulF

    Or a lesson in history from someone who knows what he’s on about.

  • PaulF

    Agreed, except I don’t agree those groups you mention enjoy external order and external freedom. They ‘enjoy’ chaos, sickness, shortened lives, and curses terrible curses that afflict their succeeding generations.

  • Vinny Zee

    RBruce,

    Protestant or not, your comments have to be the best I’ve seen in a long time from someone in the protestant camp. I will cite one that could not have been more right on, “Many people who question mindless authority that is of purely human basis are literally bullied out of their church through gossip. These toxic churches destroy lives and reputations. Victims of these churches most often never return to the faith, unless they are well grounded and know to look to Christ alone and not men, who are fallible.”

    That is exactly what started my journey back home to Catholicism. Every single word of what you wrote in point one, actually caused me one night to ask, “is this how it was from the beginning? Is this how authority was set up and should be displayed today?” That single question of authority, because of some terrible things that had happened to my wife and I, caused me to research the single issue how authority was set up and established in the early church and basically how they passed down authority. I had no desires of knowing anything else at that time. A systematic study of that on its own led to what ultimately led to so many other areas and eventually my return home. There are multiple facets to the story, I won’t go into all of them, but that was the beginning crux. However, I think you hit the nail on the head with every other single point you mentioned. For me, those very points I myself was seeing over the years and was the reason I could no longer stay among the protestants or ever return. I could write a book here, but I won’t.

    I will conclude with the fact that I have no words to describe how I was attacked, reviled and ultimately flat out ignored by those who I thought were my closest brothers and sisters when I began truly studying the early church and questioning the protestant reformation and tradition. I think the being ignored has been the hardest one to swallow honestly. We since moved out of state. Last week a genuine man, who was diabetic and a mutual friend to all of us, passed away. Not one person called or text to tell me. My wife happened to see it through a Facebook post. Thank for your honesty in your comments.

  • Craig A. Mouldey

    Thank you Juan. Incidentally, you do know I’m not American, right? I’ve heard some, and books have been written who present the case the founders were NOT Christians. Others point to many of their quotes, referring to Jesus as proof they were. There is no doubt many of them were Freemasons. I would look at such quotes by them much as I look with extreme suspicion at statements by groups such as Jehovah’s Witnesses. they say Jesus is the ‘son of God’. That sounds good until you realise they don’t understand that term in the same way as the bible or the Church presents Him.
    I’ve heard Washington D.C. is laid out and built according to Masonic directives. It’s really quite creepy.
    I don’t see self sufficiency being a bad thing. At least not in the way I interpret it. I don’t mean we don’t need the Church or our Saviour. We do. Everything fades in importance compared to this. By being self sufficient in living, a person knows a broad range of skills to care for themselves, their family, and be a help to those in need of help. Such a one is resourceful and knows how to fix things, grow a garden, treat an infection.
    As events stand after the election, everything appears to be advancing as planned. The military/industrial complex is still being fed. The possibility of a really big, deadly war hasn’t changed. Economic ruin appears certain. And Erdogan is revealing his intentions clearly for all to see.
    It is past time for me to contact my priest again, Father Andrew for direction on what I do next. I wish we were closer in location.

    • Juan

      You are welcome Craig, of course to be self-sufficient having a lot of skills to survive physically and more important Spiritually is a very good thing. I was just thinking in the wrong sense of freedom that exist in modern antichristian World where individualistic people claim to be independent of social or religious rules.
      The refinement seems to be unavoidable (God will postpone it as much as possible) in the way humanity is acting and the enemies of Jesus and the Church are advancing.
      I tend to think Freemasonry achieved the control of the World from American and French Revolutions to First World War and Russian Revolution. After 1918 satan is in control trough communism, fascism-nazism, islamism, capitalistic liberalism, etc.
      Anyway I also think that a restoration of Christianity will be possible after the refinement.

      • Craig A. Mouldey

        Ah, gotcha. Independent of social or religious rules. Wow, just look at the west. A good segment of society don’t even know what is right and wrong. They don’t know what gender they are. Perversity is now normal. These control freaks are still very active in their intent on bringing about their goals. I was encouraged to see Catholic Bishops here in Canada have come out with a rebuke of our pretend PM over wanting to use tax payer money to fund abortion in other countries. What a disgraceful apostate Catholic. He loves all the religions, Muslim, Sikhs, etc. All except the Lord’s church.

  • Nan

    I will pray for your conversion to the True Faith, the Church that Jesus founded. Read the Book of Luke to see the error in your ways.

  • Nan

    You sound very angry at not belonging to the True faith.

    First, the inquisition applied only to Catholics; that encompassed converts and actually prevented mob rule; second, the Crusades were a response to Muslim atrocities in the Holy Land, at the request of the Byzantine emperor. Yes, crusaders committed atrocities but you ignore the whole reason that the crusades began.

    Third, the Church wasn’t the instigator of the European Slave Trade men did that. And you also ignore the africans and muslims who were slave traders and sold men to the European slave traders. Slavery has been around for milennia and you only blame whitey for the recent slave trade and ignore the rest.

  • Grace Ziem

    Perhaps it depends on your experience. I just returned from a day of meeting with evangelicals from many denominations, as well as interdenominational, who work in cooperation to spread the gospel throughout the world and strengthen their own commitments to Christ. Voice of the Martyrs coordinated it, but many groups were there. It sounds a little like Catholics announcing a death while the body is still lively. I agree we need to better reach youth, but that applies to Catholics as well. We all need to witness better, friends, as Christs commands.

  • Nan

    Catholic Church doesn’t modify Christ’s teaching.

  • Nan

    Sorry, that’s not how it works.

  • Nan

    You say “I especially want the Eucharist” please be aware that communion is limited to Catholics; you have to go through a formal process to become Catholic, at which time you’ll receive communion.

  • bubba

    Great article for a returning Catholic. so glad I was led to this site. Forever grateful. Thanks Andrew!

  • PaulF

    Most of what you say I can get with. I’m Irish too, at least by origin. I’ve remained Catholic because of the Eucharist. There is absolutely no way I would walk away from the Bread of Life.
    The troubles of the Catholic Church only show the miraculous nature of its continued existence. I love the story about Napoleon sticking his finger in a French bishop’s face and saying, “I will destroy your church.” “O please,” came the reply, “we bishops have been trying for eighteen hundred years and we still haven’t destroyed it. What makes you think you will succeed in a single lifetime?”

  • OrthodoxChristianAmerican

    What I think is going to happen, is that many of these unchurched people who are vaguely monotheistic, will convert to Islam. Not much to know, simple rules, and you can still think Jesus was a great guy and man of God, which is pretty much what they think now, before any conversion to Islam.

  • Chet

    “Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the Earth” Luke 18:8, Holy Bible.

  • Michelle Therese

    Yay! It’s story time!

  • Tom_mcewen

    You are confused, Acts was written about 80 AD and Acts 9:31″ekklesia Kathilikos” is the church, John was the bishop of Ephesus in present day Turkey and he would have brought Mary the mother of Jesus so St Luke knew her. St Peter had been the Bishop of Antioch then Rome, St Mark was the Bishop of Alexandria, St Paul was buried outside the city of Rome and St Peter where St Peter’s would be built, St Ignatius wrote Where the Bishop is there is the Church. Jerusalem was not the center of the church, Jerusalem was a sacked city, via the Romans.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Paul has replaced Christ in most protestant churches, Don’t​ believe me, track whose words the 47900 protestant confessions are based on. It is Paul who is preached not Christ. Take a notebook to church and put a check mark next to Paul when Paul is preached and a check mark when Christ is preached, Christ is a little slow so Paul is the chief Theologian.

  • Tom_mcewen

    Do you know the Christians withdrew from the Jews in all three rebellions against Rome until the last in 132AD they refused to accept the post temple Messiah the rabbi selected and were finally kicked out of the synagogue. The first rebellion was a blood bath in Israel and the next two destroyed the Jews as citizens of the empire and made them a password for treason in the empire. By 97AD there was open warfare between the Pharisees Rabbi who controlled the extended Jewish family in the circle of the Mediterranean and the Christians. Stop depending on single verses out of the bible, without history, culture or context. If that worked there wouldn’t be 47900 different understanding on one bible. Pilate asked a very Greek question What is Truth, it is not a verse, being self interpreted, there lies madness. Luther claimed that Jesus committed adultery with three women one at the well, two the woman caught in adultery and with Mary Magdalene. Do you believe that? Why not? Do you believe Zwingli when he claimed from the bible that the Eucharist is a symbol? Do you know that Luther and Zwingli excommunicated each other in 1529AD, only two protestant leaders in the world and they two couldn’t interpet scripture the same. If you want history read the Apostolic Fathers not people 2000 years later drinking Starbucks. There are good secular history too.